E.Bow Vs Selene Bow

[Chanse]

I've been reading alot about Selene Bow and many RNG in my server is carrying one. I am planning a run for the bow, but not sure what it compares to E.Bow. I owned an E. Bow myself and my RNG is at 62.

Any experience or info on S. Bow is appreciated.

Also, when do you normally start DMGing pass 1K? It seems my peak has always been in the 800s. and my gear is above average... I tried combinations of food (Squid Sushi & Subs or Sisakabobi) and ring (Scorp+1 and Some +4STR Ring) switch to see my DMG output but only 100DMG difference.

Is there a certain Level where I will pass that 800PEAK? Cause I am feeling pretty weak to see a SAM/THF or BLU/THF or DRK/THF going 1K on me with SATA... lol

Thanks for the info.

BTW I am a returned RNG (75)(I quit before the RNG updates. but I do understand about the range choice) Thanks again

Chanse

[Omni]

I cant say I've seen a sam, drk or blu let go of a 1k+ ws before they get their lv.3 ws, unless theyre fighting something that is zerked or takes double damage....

if you want to push rng to its dmg potential, you will need to sub /war for sure. subbing /nin does nothing for dmg. Eating meat is a great way to boost your dmg too just as long as you can not have your acc dip too much. You might want to think of getting a fire staff, archers jupon, amemet+1 and any str/r.atk get you can get. Again, mind your accuracy or you'll be tp'ing very slowly and wasting a lot of time on missed sidewinders. You need to also understand that a lot of PT's tend to over hunt a lot nowadays and this will affect your output.

I have an s-bow and its pretty comparable to e-bow from what i've experienced, I actually tend to like it more because of the acc+ it gets during full moon, which sometimes lands on days i do sky/sea runs. never hurts to have a bit more acc on high lvl mobs.

[Chanse]

interesting... ya since I got back I see alot of over hunts lately. IT++++ and stuff (over exaggerating... =P

I was with a SAM and BLU yesterday and the BLU busted a Burst Affi, Chain Affin +SATA with Death Scissors and landed a 1.2K (but I didn't check them mob...).

Anyways. I'm looking forward in getting the S. Bow and trying it out. I'll try some combination of gears and food. Maybe I'm missing something...

At the moment here are my gear setup...

Hawkers +1 (waiting for Fransisca)
Trailer Kukri
E.Bow (Scorp Arrow, Demon Arrow)
AF HAT
P. Charm
Vision Earrings
Drone Earrings
Scorp Rings +1 X 2 (sometimes I switch to +4 STR Rings)
AF Body
Amemet +1
Jaridah Nails
Jaridah Bazubands (looking for Deadeye Gloves... and gils..lol.)
Jaridah Salvars

Thanks for the feedback.

[VZX]

Sbow and Ebow are very close in term of damage/shot

I remembered I did nyzul assault with friends with 8 archery merit, ebow, scout's socks, and scout's belt. he did 155 damage/shot on xolotl kind of mob, while my obow + holy bolt only did 100+33 damage. (D86 vs D95)

But remember, we have about 29-30 ratk difference just from merit and gear. He's hume, I'm Mithra.

1 best gear doesn't always significantly give better result than the 2nd best one

As far as your "low dmg" goes. try forcing your mage to keep dia II on all the time. eat attack food (probably not applicable at your level though), and have a bard to do 2x minuet. Acid bolt is nice too if you can land it easily

[Mhurron]

Which one is harder to get. Thats probably the one everyone's going to say you need.

[VZX]

I haven't finished my BC60, so I can't tell how good is the drop rate from brothers d'aurphe.

Eastern Shadow have nasty repop hour (18-32 hours from report). I myself only experience 18-19 hour and 23-24 hour repop. someone else told me 32 hours repop time.

Sbow you can only camp it weekly, if there's competition, it might dangerous since there's DC raptor around the pop area. if you're alone there, white coney is easy to solo. and there's no nasty repop time

[Eohmer]

Which one is harder to get. Thats probably the one everyone's going to say you need.
White Coney and Black Coney are both force spawned by trading a San d'Orian Carrot when you see the rabbit footprints on their corresponding Moon Phases.

White Coney- Full Moon
Black Coney- New Moon

Stupid rabbit... damn I hate that stupid rabbit.

Back when I leveled Ranger in Caitsith, we went for the Selene's Bow, and we fought the White Coney....

/sigh

Stupid rabbit and his stupid Wild Carrot. ; ;

- Around 8500HP
- Special Attacks: Wild Carrot (TP-based special attack that cures the NM for over 1000HP), goes off at 300% TP for most of the fight but goes off faster at 100% TP when the NM has 20% or less health.

[Sevv]

i got both! S bow is harder to get but E.bow is better overall.

Tip on the Nm: Rng + Sleep bolts = god

[Omni]

white coney is definitely the more annoying of the 2.
black coney is a lot easier to kill and solo.

get a couple melee pals to zerg the white coney and you'll be ok.

if you dont have /war leveled already, i suggest doing that. you'll really see a large jump in ur ws and regular shots.

if you're afraid of accuracy on /war, popping sole/squid should be good enough and put on that fire staff!! :)

[Macht]

Yeah, calculating it out the Selene Bow and E. Bow are very close to the same in damage. They both are pretty equal in some cases and in other cases the E. Bow will be better and yet again in other cases the Selene Bow is better. It's kind of cyclical on which is better at what time.

As for breaking 1k if you are a RNG/NIN I'm not very sure when that's possible or if it is. So far I've never seen a RNG/NIN break 1k, I used to party with RNG/NINs all the way up to lv. 65 after that haven't partied to much with a RNG/NIN to see.

I can tell you that with RNG/WAR I was breaking 1k by early 50s, in the 60s I was getting close to breaking 2k on a few ITs closer at breaking 2k with VTs. I would imagine that a RNG/NIN could break 1k pretty easy with a BRD buffing his attacks, or help with like "War Cry" and even defense down stuff should help with that too.

[Omni]

If I eat meat in mire its pretty doable on /nin but you're barely pushing it. with /war I'm hitting 1.5+ consistently in mire. my rng is no where near finished with merits and my gear is only decent.

At other camps like north thickets, it tends to get more tricky since mamool ja have pretty good evasion so I'll unwillingly pop sushi to save myself from embarassing sidewinder misses.

In trolls camp, I can break 1k on some trolls even when eating sushi but these guys dont slack on defense usually.

[nanatsu]

As for breaking 1k if you are a RNG/NIN I'm not very sure when that's possible or if it is. So far I've never seen a RNG/NIN break 1k, I used to party with RNG/NINs all the way up to lv. 65 after that haven't partied to much with a RNG/NIN to see.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I want to try /war but I'm afraid I'll cause problems in a TP burn and I'll end up dying or causing myself to be an MP sink. I'm also worried about pulling. Are there really more rng choosing /war after lvl 65? I'm lvl 63 at the moment and I'd really like to try but it's making me kinda anxious :T

[Omni]

dont worry too much about the pulls. it's not that bad to be honest.

and with regards to pulling hate and dying... try to pace your TP as best you can. You know how the flow of your party is going and really tbh, letting off 2 sidewinders usually is a bit over kill for 1 mob, when you have 1-2 other melee letting their ws go once a fight too.

I usually try to pace my tp so I get the kill shot on each mob or close to it at least. If you happen to miss letting off your ws that round, its not really a big deal if you just hold on to 300 tp for 1 mob...

[Macht]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I want to try /war but I'm afraid I'll cause problems in a TP burn and I'll end up dying or causing myself to be an MP sink. I'm also worried about pulling. Are there really more rng choosing /war after lvl 65? I'm lvl 63 at the moment and I'd really like to try but it's making me kinda anxious :T

Yeah, really with RNG/WAR you don't need to burn so much TP. For example on ITs RNG/WAR with a DRK/THF can deal some massive damage. It's pretty intresting how much damage Transfixtion can do to many of the mobs. With a DRK starting off and RNG/WAR ending it you usually take out like 3/4s of the enemies HP from those two and the Skillchain.

More or less a RNG/WAR in a TP burn will basically be a damage accelerator, time your attacks to intentionally cause a skillchain at the right time and you'll down the enemies much faster. It's perfect for a RNG to do this too since a huge number of WSs can be chained with RNGs WS, especially sidewinder. So just let loose a shot when the mob is about half way and someone has done a WS, try to intentionally get a skillchain and that mob will probably die from that alone.

[Malacite]

I've heard of my friends getting as high as 3000 damage slug shots in merit parties on /WAR (flying mobs only)

Is this plausible or is someone yanking my chain? I'm positive that's enough damage to easily 1-shot most mobs at around 1/3 HP (maybe more?)

[Macht]

I've heard of my friends getting as high as 3000 damage slug shots in merit parties on /WAR (flying mobs only)
Is this plausible or is someone yanking my chain? I'm positive that's enough damage to easily 1-shot most mobs at around 1/3 HP (maybe more?)

Well put it this way, I'm close to breaking 2k on normal mobs as RNG/WAR. Ranged attacks get like a 50% bonus to damage with flying mobs, so a 2k shot would become 3k on a flying mob. On side note I can solo VT bats and other flying creatures, sidewinder easily getting between 1.5k - 2.2k without a lot of effort.

Depending on what you fight 2k can take 100% health close to about 40% left, why I generally aim for that damage to hit the mob when it's around 1/2 health. Many of the bats though that are T-VT to me usually about 2.2k takes it to about 20% left, bats don't seem to have much health so they are decent to solo.

[Chanse]

Wow, thanks for all the info... can't wait to try /WAR... now maybe I can sell some of my knifes? lol maybe ill keep them for BCNM stuff.... Fire Staff ehhh... I am sooo getting one.. Thanks again FFXI Forum!!

Chanse

[Caspian]

Ebow and Sbow can hit for the same dmg shot for shot under the right conditions (moon phase), however Ebow's delay is lower, so technically its better.
However, don't let that get you down, I'm 75 and still use Sbow (and know many 75's that still use it), I've started camping Eastern Shadow again and hoping for a Vali's sometime soon.
I can imagine 3k+ ws's. Great gear, full merits, /war, soul voiced minx2, diaII, red curry, flying mob. Doable, especially if your ws crits (only had that happen a handful of times, though.)
As far as going /war, I've been on a /nin kick lately, just because I use it for random stuff, and cheap invis shadows are nice. I've started meriting with /war and will do gods /war so long as we aren't farming sky beforehand. Really you just have to walk a closer line with hate and don't go overboard.
I imagine I'll always go /nin to things like dynamis, though. You are going to get hit some, aoe's just have huge range and there isn't always room to back far enough away. Plus you're likely to miss bard songs if you wander off too far.

[Amarok]

My Ranger is lvl 67 now, and I was lucky enough to get Vali's Bow when I was lvl 55 (using my MNK to solo Eastern Shadow). If you put "Vali's Bow" into Google, my blog entry about getting it is the first site returned (Amarok & Rokada). It wasn't camped much when I went for it, but it will still most likely take a conciderable amount of effort to get it just because of the awkward pop cycle. IMO though, don't let that put you off trying, it becomes a very nice piece of gear, and people will hopefully repect you for putting in the effort to get it yourself.

I also got the Selene Bow for lvl 60, but actually never equiped it, and I ended up dropping it to free up the space (can always get another one if I ever wanted too). I'm comfortable with Vali's Bow since I can concentrate on +r.acc gear and I know my DMG output is going to be pretty consistant.

I've so far never tried RNG/WAR. I'm not sure I'm ready to give up the dual wield hawkers+1 (now Fransisca in slot 1) with +r.acc stats, and even with /NIN and Vali's/Demon Arrows, I'm pulling hate off a PLD with SAM/THF SATA on him in xp parties.

At lvl 67 the x.bow vs bow options start to show themselves, since the Othinus' Bow is very much like a long bow in its delay and DMG output (great for slug shots and barrage). I find myself doing something along these lines in xp parties:

Start with x.bow, pull with acid bolt
Chuck in a few more acid bolts at the start if 1st one didn't get defense down effect.
Fire a holy & blind bolt if it suits the mob/party setup.
Get to 100% TP with Darksteel bolts, and fire off slug shot
Switch to Vali's Bow with Demon arrows, maybe barrage/sharpshot if its up.
Finish up with a powerful sidewinder, and its usually time to pull the next mob, so time to switch to x.bow again.I've also had fun with using shadowbind if I pull a link. With AF Hands you get an almost guaranteed 45 second bind on the mob as long as no-one else vokes it or attacks it in anyway.

Ranger is a cool job in FFXI and I find it a ton of fun to play.

[Omni]

FIRE STAFF

forget those silly daggers and axes. you will have enough rng acc. as it is.

that's too much equip switching for my taste amarok :p

[Spider-Dan]

Every time I use /WAR, I end up regretting it. What's the point of having all this insane damage output if you can't use it when the mob has any sort of decent HP remaining?

With the changes to Third Eye, I greatly prefer /SAM as a "max damage" sub. Seigan+3E provides just enough survivability to prevent a non-killshot dynamis slug from signing my own death warrant.

/WAR is great for screenshots, but not much else IMO. I have tried to give /WAR a chance time and time again, and every time I am dissatisfied with the results.

[Omni]

I go /sam to a lot of things too and from my experiences its just OK. It's not as survivable as I would have liked it to be. Third eye is no where near as reliable and you must be quick on the spot to activate else it sometimes wears in all the melee confusion that dynamis can bring. The damage per ws/shot isnt much greater than /nin but you win on getting to let more slugs go than any other rng sub.

/sam reminds me of luke warm water. it's not great but its not bad.

tbh, all 3 of the popular rng subs are pretty meh. /war makes rng too big for their all britches, /nin makes them soft and too defensive and /sam is just so mediorce... ok dmg and ok defense.

[Spider-Dan]

I go /sam to a lot of things too and from my experiences its just OK. It's not as survivable as I would have liked it to be. Third eye is no where near as reliable and you must be quick on the spot to activate else it sometimes wears in all the melee confusion that dynamis can bring.
My slug macro (for dynamis) has 3E in it.

[Omni]

great idea! lol. still the 1 or 5 anticipates is kinda shakey for me. hopefully i get 5 when slugging a mnk mob. ; ;

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I pretty much /WAR everywhere, I'm polishing off that /SAM sub as soon as my /WHM sub is done, but I've always felt I've used /WAR rather effectively in most situations.

Or maybe its just because I actually cap my EXP and just don't give a damn if I die. I just think if RNG/WAR as the physical BLM and play it as such.

As far as Selene goes, its easier to get so hunt Black Coney and get S Bow until you have the time to camp Eastern Shadow or BCNM60. Both bows are very good. I have the Vali's Bow now, but I will use Selene if the moon phase is right and I feel I'd benefit from the accuracy stats off Selene more than I would V-Bow.

[Spider-Dan]

great idea! lol. still the 1 or 5 anticipates is kinda shakey for me. hopefully i get 5 when slugging a mnk mob. ; ;
As far as I can recall, I've never had less than 2 anticipates if I use 3E right as I get aggro. It's only when you get attacked late in 3E's duration that it tends to go down immediately.

I also keep Seigan up full-time, as I don't consider the 5 STR from Hasso to be worth the hassle of accidentally using 3E without Seigan up.

I pretty much /WAR everywhere, I'm polishing off that /SAM sub as soon as my /WHM sub is done, but I've always felt I've used /WAR rather effectively in most situations.

Or maybe its just because I actually cap my EXP and just don't give a damn if I die. I just think if RNG/WAR as the physical BLM and play it as such.
I care about dying because I can't do damage when I'm dead, and I really dislike trying to deal damage when I'm weakened.

It just seems to me that except for an extended fight with solidly placed hate on one person throughout, /WAR is pretty useless. Situations that would result in 0 damage to me as /SAM result in death as /WAR.

[Omni]

Has something changed with dmg calculations since the last distance update (the post nerf-slight un-nerf)?

I'm seeing very similar numbers with o-bow/darksteel as I do with S-bow/demons and I have 5 merits into bow currently and 0 in marks.

[Spinnthrift]

For those rangers who really want to step beyond mediocrety.. /War and the relevant gearing for it is the way to go.

And yes - being able to do two weaponskills in a burn party is mediocrety.

/Nin serve's it's purpose, yet you will always be left behind by those who can count their shots and lands consistent WS's.

For those who say they die too much - learn to count your shots.. I did when I was new, and you should too.

Fire Staff + /War will be the party member who feeds the mob less TP. Who drops out the bigs numbers and who reminds us all to step up a gear.

If you have time to swap in two weapons as well as SC twice, you're either far overhunting or geared so badly that regardless of how many hits you land - you're not being effective.

I appreciate that O-Bow is nice, but learn to use it effectively.. not boast about swapping to some R/E bow too, as in doing so - you say, I can hit 18+ times without the mob being dead. If a Ranger's doing that - they're either hitting like a badly geared Thf or overhunting by a mile. For a DD - that's not blogworthy.

Rng/War is the optimum choice if you are capable of understanding the hate line. You can deal far for damage in relation to tp given to the mob. /Nin is for those who rely on others to get to 75.

Sorry if this seems unfairly said, but when I was a newbie.. Ranger had to learn to manage the line, and deal great damage... not be mediocre.

As Omni says.. Fire Staff wins.

Peace.

[Cometgreen]

I'm surprised and happy to hear that some rangers go /war at 75. I've only been able to merit a few times before taking my summer break, but I assumed /nin was the preferred way to go. I haven't really had a pld tank yet in meripo, so maybe that's why I've been hesitant or asked not to go /war, but I pull hate as /nin with sis kebabi as it stands. I'm also lucky to WS each fight anyway, so I imagine holding back with /war would mean I could only WS every other fight.

But it should be acceptable to go to a burn party as /war + meat? I've gone /war as much as I could throughout my career, so I'm good with managing hate, but I always assumed that, with a random pickup party, /nin is the only way to be effective.

Oh, and Selene's Bow is fine. EBow is pretty much the SBow +1, imo. I'd love to have one, but it's not necessary, and you won't suffer without it. Just get a few friends and a few carrots, and spend an hour or so in Uleguerand.

(and glad to see you're playing again, Saeriel)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

But it should be acceptable to go to a burn party as /war + meat? I've gone /war as much as I could throughout my career, so I'm good with managing hate, but I always assumed that, with a random pickup party, /nin is the only way to be effective.

I've done most of my merit PTs and a lot of my EXP burn PTs as RNG/WAR, but I usually just merit RNG with friends and merit as COR otherwise, so I can't say about the general pickup EXP PTs these days as /WAR. I never had a problem with getting to go /WAR in most cases, though.

I've encouraged RNGs in my PTs to go /WAR if they want to, most will jump at the chance when offered.

[Spider-Dan]

For those rangers who really want to step beyond mediocrety.. /War and the relevant gearing for it is the way to go.
And yes - being able to do two weaponskills in a burn party is mediocrety.
Funny that you say that, seeing as how the RNG setup that can do 2-3 WS per mob in a burn party (KC RNG) absolutely destroys any standard RNG setup.

/Nin serve's it's purpose, yet you will always be left behind by those who can count their shots and lands consistent WS's.
For those who say they die too much - learn to count your shots.. I did when I was new, and you should too.
What does counting your shots have to do with anything? I can count to zero just fine, thank you. Yet if I fire a 'zerked slug (without having fired ANY shots), and the mob doesn't immediately die, it's pretty much guaranteed that I will shortly. It has nothing do to with the number of shots I've fired, and everything to do with how much HP the mob has remaining.

Fire Staff + /War will be the party member who feeds the mob less TP. Who drops out the bigs numbers and who reminds us all to step up a gear.
Fire Staff + /WAR will also be the party member firing one WS for every 3 mobs, which doesn't exactly help keep the chain going.

Rng/War is the optimum choice if you are capable of understanding the hate line. You can deal far for damage in relation to tp given to the mob. /Nin is for those who rely on others to get to 75.
Sorry if this seems unfairly said, but when I was a newbie.. Ranger had to learn to manage the line, and deal great damage... not be mediocre.
Why is it that RNG/WARs think that /NIN and /SAM don't have to manage hate?

EVERY RNG SJ has to manage hate. The difference is the threshold:

- /NIN needs to manage their hate so that they lose hate before the sixth shadow
- /SAM needs to manage their hate so that they lose hate before the ~third shadow
- /WAR needs to manage their hate so that they don't take aggro, period

If you play /NIN and do not specifically aim to manage your hate so that you are regularly losing shadows, then you aren't doing it right. Period.

The main difference between /WAR and other SJs (in a rapid kill situation) is that because of their frailty, /WAR has to sit on TP waiting for the mob to reach a point where it's safe to kill. So while I'm sitting on 150% TP as /WAR waiting for the mob to reach a point where I can fire a slug without committing suicide, as /NIN or /SAM I would have already fired a slug at ~110% and have ~50% TP built towards my next slug.

[VZX]

The only place I've ever been where /WAR is effective is BC40 Worm's turn
because :
- ga will wipe your shadows anyway
- you will spent 30-40% of your time killing the bigger worm, which must be done ranged. no melee at all

[Spinnthrift]

Funny that you say that, seeing as how the RNG setup that can do 2-3 WS per mob in a burn party (KC RNG) absolutely destroys any standard RNG setup.


What does counting your shots have to do with anything? I can count to zero just fine, thank you. Yet if I fire a 'zerked slug (without having fired ANY shots), and the mob doesn't immediately die, it's pretty much guaranteed that I will shortly. It has nothing do to with the number of shots I've fired, and everything to do with how much HP the mob has remaining.

*For those who want to read the rebuttal to someone using a Kraken Club as an attempt to validate a flawed arguement.. skip to the bottom.

That is more based on party setup.. last party I was in with a Rng/War.. the party felt like we were all sleeping. Except at the end of it we'd been making roughly 10 - 12k an hour just having a play about.. most of the time we spent chatting to each other. Then again, we had a Pld tank and a Thf.. me securing hate.

Oh, if we'd had Anniversary/Emp Rings going - that would have been up to 14-16k an hour.. but Anniversary weren't out then, and my Emp wasn't recharged. Maybe not amazing, but nothing to sneeze at.

Fire Staff + /WAR will also be the party member firing one WS for every 3 mobs, which doesn't exactly help keep the chain going.


Why is it that RNG/WARs think that /NIN and /SAM don't have to manage hate?

EVERY RNG SJ has to manage hate. The difference is the threshold:

- /NIN needs to manage their hate so that they lose hate before the sixth shadow
- /SAM needs to manage their hate so that they lose hate before the ~third shadow
- /WAR needs to manage their hate so that they don't take aggro, period

If you play /NIN and do not specifically aim to manage your hate so that you are regularly losing shadows, then you aren't doing it right. Period.

Now - maybe it's just me, but when they 'fixed' (read that as nerfed) ranged weapons to function better at distance... if a mob is causing you to lose shadows, you are losing your accuracy and damage. If causing yourself to cause less damage and be less accurate is the correct way to play, I don't desire to be correct (at least not in your eyes). Period.

Ranger is not all that far removed from Black Mage. You don't see good Black Mages trying to get the mob in their face. You see the tiptoe the line finely.

The main difference between /WAR and other SJs (in a rapid kill situation) is that because of their frailty, /WAR has to sit on TP waiting for the mob to reach a point where it's safe to kill. So while I'm sitting on 150% TP as /WAR waiting for the mob to reach a point where I can fire a slug without committing suicide, as /NIN or /SAM I would have already fired a slug at ~110% and have ~50% TP built towards my next slug.

This is a valid point, you definately can gain more tp, but in quick kill parties - which don't necessarily have to be tp burning (skillchaining with a balanced party will still net the same results, you just have to be able to work better together...), a Ranger who can finish off a mob with a big move, will still be able to gain the necessary tp's to fire again. Also, even with lots of R.Acc, a lot of the good Rangers I know, have explained they prefer to have slightly more than the minimum TP as Sidewinder/Slugshot is moderately innacurate with 100tp. So much so, they're often happier getting to 150 or so before releasing. But they also say they can do that easily before a mob reaches half health.

This goes back to the older thought of school regarding counting shots.

Now - your point about a Kraken Club Ranger is cute.. really cute. I mean.. *every* ranger has one of those. Like the Ridill/K Club Dark Knights. They're part of the AF obviously. What you're not mentioning is that most people don't have those, and with weapons like that - that go beyond 'normal' - the standard conventions get thrown out of the window. It's like my LS mate who has a Mandau.. he does things other Thf can't.. go figure, but I'd not rely on his weapons being available to everyone's setups.

It's a common phrase called "The exception that proves the rule.." and if you're basis of an arguement is around a Kraken Club, well - that's really cute, and I won't bother reposting even if you decide you need to 'win' at the internet. Most people who have the top end weaponry - won't read forums to find out how to play, as they've already made their own rules and style.

What I've posted - is information that people can use who haven't got Relic Bow, K Club, Ridill, etc... and while you're arguement that says Krakening Rangers who Kraken Post do more damage... it's not for general use.. unless you want to give me a K Club and I'll be a Kraken spamming Thf and change the rules for all Thf too. You know.. if I had a Ridill and K.Club.. I wouldn't use daggers on my Thf.. unless I had a Mandau.. and I'd spam other WS's.. and so on. Be sensible now.

Peace.

[Spider-Dan]

That is more based on party setup.. last party I was in with a Rng/War.. the party felt like we were all sleeping. Except at the end of it we'd been making roughly 10 - 12k an hour just having a play about.. most of the time we spent chatting to each other. Then again, we had a Pld tank and a Thf.. me securing hate.

Oh, if we'd had Anniversary/Emp Rings going - that would have been up to 14-16k an hour.. but Anniversary weren't out then, and my Emp wasn't recharged. Maybe not amazing, but nothing to sneeze at.
I probably wouldn't brag too much about "10-12k" in the TAU era. Double that and you might have something to talk about.

Just saying.

Now - maybe it's just me, but when they 'fixed' (read that as nerfed) ranged weapons to function better at distance... if a mob is causing you to lose shadows, you are losing your accuracy and damage.
And yet you are gaining damage (and TP) from melee attacks; damage that otherwise would not exist. Funny, that.

Ranger is not all that far removed from Black Mage. You don't see good Black Mages trying to get the mob in their face. You see the tiptoe the line finely.
RNG is nothing like BLM; trying to play it like one is your own mistake. We don't have to manage MP, and they won't have ninjutsu as an option. Ranged attacks and WSes don't get interrupted when you have aggro. We can't cure ourselves. The list goes on...

This is a valid point, you definately can gain more tp, but in quick kill parties - which don't necessarily have to be tp burning (skillchaining with a balanced party will still net the same results, you just have to be able to work better together...), [...]
Uhh, skillchains in meripo? No. And it has nothing to do with how good you work together; it has to do with BLM, pure and simple.

Without a BLM, there's no point in aiming for SCs (other than simply completing incidental ones), as the SC damage from commonly used meripo WS is frequently resisted anyway.

With a BLM, SC+MB now becomes worthwhile, but there is no mechanism for BLM to be able to maintain MP and still carry their own weight. Meripo parties simply kill too quickly for BLM to have time to rest.

[...]a Ranger who can finish off a mob with a big move, will still be able to gain the necessary tp's to fire again.

Also, even with lots of R.Acc, a lot of the good Rangers I know, have explained they prefer to have slightly more than the minimum TP as Sidewinder/Slugshot is moderately innacurate with 100tp. So much so, they're often happier getting to 150 or so before releasing. But they also say they can do that easily before a mob reaches half health.
All of the preceding is ridiculous theorycraft. No, it is not hard to land 100 TP slugs in meripo (save the two extremely evasive mobs that everyone is aware of); no, you can't gain enough TP (via ranged only) to WS a mob if you just killed the last one with a WS in any sort of decent party; no, you most certainly cannot build 150% TP before a mob gets to 50% life.

You seem to be speaking in a lot of hypotheticals. Are you relaying someone else's opinion? Because whoever is giving you RNG advice doesn't seem to know WTF they are talking about.

This goes back to the older thought of school regarding counting shots.
So let's talk about counting shots.

E-bow takes ~7.3 seconds per shot and returns 14.8 TP/hit.
Assuming 90% accuracy, that means that you need to fire 10 shots (after a WS) to reach ~150 TP... or, 73 seconds (this is if you are perfectly consistent with your CTRL+D and never have to move into song range, etc.).

If it takes your party 73 seconds to get a mob down to half life, what business do you have criticizing someone else's kill speed?

[Spinnthrift]

Firstly - I'm not 75 Rng. I'm a Thf. I said.. that WS'ing twice from having fired that many shots isn't something to boast about.. which you were the one who leapt on...

Had you comprehended the post that said...:

Pull, fire some shots, fire some more shots, WS, change to bow, fire some more shots, Barrage, WS.. and go pull again... you might have understood my original post. Go back and read the thread instead of telling us all how K.Clubs win the internet.

As I said.. it was a sleepy party, and not a meripo. Just mooching about killing stuff and chatting. Not everyone is 75 Rng. Not everyone is HNMLS'd to the eyeballs. Meripo isn't everything. And I've never said I was a 75 Ranger... please.. go find where I did.

So pre-meripo, when you do need that kind of stuff to worry about... my arguements stand. Because the post I was referring to - wasn't a 75 fully merited ranger.

As I said.. be sensible.

Peace out buddy.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I don't feel I have anything to add to this thread that would make it more absurd than it already has become. So, I will just add these two things:

lolKrakenClub - because all RNGs have one, right?
lolmeritpo - because meritpo is from which all playstyle is devised, right? Meritpo as an example is only an example of disillusionment.

That said, going back to the OP, both are good, just get them as you can. But at least get Selene Bow when you're able to use it.

[Spider-Dan]

Yes, I read the original post before I replied. While you did arrive at the correct conclusion (switching weapons in the middle of a fight is inefficient), you arrived at that conclusion completely by accident. You seem to be under the impression that /WAR is the choice of the skilled, veteran RNGs, when in fact, skilled veteran RNGs are explaining to you that /WAR is usually a useless e-peen sub.

As for KC, I was going to let it drop (seeing as how your response made it clear that you obviously aren't a RNG and can't really be expected to know what's going on with KC RNG), but since there seems to be more than one person saying "lol I can't believe you mentioned KC"....

KC RNG is a well-known high-performance solution that any informed RNG should aspire to. Any knowledgeable RNG should, therefore, be wary of making blanket statements like "meleeing is for n00bs" or "you should never be firing more than one WS in a fight" or even "/WAR is the way to step beyond mediocrity".

Had you just been making those statements on their own, that might have been one thing, but since you felt it necessary to criticize another, I felt that your statements needed to be held to a higher standard. KC was merely one of an avalanche of inaccuracies and oversights in your post.

If you want to talk about non-meripo, I'm fine with that, too. Everything I said about holding on to TP still applies (unless you're planning to SATAWS it back onto the tank, in which case you really need to be standing at point blank anyway). We can also talk about the MP savings that /NIN provides the party; every hit that I absorb is a hit that the tank doesn't take (and in the case of a NIN tank, that means they get to swap out +evasion for +damage when they don't have to focus on dodging every hit).

[Omni]

so... anyone know if dmg calculations were altered with the last ranged attack/distance update?

i feel my o-bow to be stronger than usual. on trolls, my o-bow was putting up identical numbers as my s-bow.

yes, i'm trying to steer this circular debate else where b/c heh well, its circular.

[Caspian]

No, Omni, I haven't heard of any changes made to the calculation, other than all your gear, food, ja's, songs, and such are added after the fact now, so maybe all the +r. atlk. from O-bow makes more of an impact than it once did.
It is closer, but I still notice that slugwinders do more with my Sbow than my Obow.

[VZX]

I really wanted to know what the heck is really going on with the calculation from recent patch

My guess is fSTR2 reduction based on distance, since from my experience in sky, there are only certain numbers that pop up when i fight something (ulli and byakko) and that number difference is very small. So my guess was raw damage penalty -> fSTR2 penalty

but who knows ¯\(º_o)/¯

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I have noticed somewhat that Obow has been even with my damage elsewhere at times, especially so when acid bolts are applied. In Caedarva I couldn't tell you the difference between using Obow or anything, really. Mamool Ja are a different story and I usually go for the Bow on those. Trolls its usually Obow.