over +15 accuracy and I'm missing more then ever... wtf

[reklesgemini]

hey guys! My DRK career is goin pretty smooth so far. Being a drk elvaan I know we're as blind as a bat. So equiping +dex gear always came first.

Recently I've gotten some pretty damn pricey gear to make up for it. It's as follows...

Deft ring +1
Def: 2 Dex+3


Venerer ring
Accuracy +3


Peacock Charm
Accuracy +10Ranged Accuracy +10


Royal Squire's mufflers
Def: 8 Accuracy +2

and some other +dex gear i can't remember though...

anyways, it's well over 15+ in accuracy. So my PLD buddy and I get a party going and head to CN.

I'm just excited to get into battle thinkin i'd land majority of swings. I figured I'd miss 1/10....

...not really. First swing? A miss...

hmm.

second swing... miss again

W T F

third swing finally lands... but by then I'm already wondering if my LS gil was well spent.

Honest to goodness, I wouldn't say I'm doing worse. But I'm definately ain't doin better. I haven't capped scythe skill yet... doing both GS and scythe at the same time... last capped both at 35. Since then it's been harder.

so what gives? Should I invest on more +dex rather then acc. gear? I thought 2 dex= 1 acc. so I figured acc. was the best choice. But maybe there's some hidden factors i don't know about? Or am I gimped in that department no matter how much gear i get.

has this happened to anyone else?

[Celeal]

ACC is relative: both your character and what your character is hitting is part of the equation. I am not sure what is your DRK's level. Level of your DRK and the level of the mob has a huge impact. So do weapon's skill, your gear, buff/debuff, food, etc.

IMHO, for melee DD against Worker Crawlers (assuming no BRD or COR buffs in party), the performance from level 34~36 usually not impressive, level 37~38 will see good damage output.

[nanatsu]

To answer another of your questions, straight ACC is always better than Dex unless you can find an Ostrich Charm with +20 Dex. Did you check the mobs to see what they conned? that's an easy way to tell if you're overcamping or not. Unless you see Low Evasion in that check, your +15 acc is not enough. Either what you're hunting is too high or you're too low for what you're hunting. Or it was a fluke.

Also, you can still miss twice in a row with even 90%+ acc. It's just a matter of chance and odds. Eventually, over the course of the party, the benefits of your acc will add up, but missing twice in a row doesn't really tell you anything about whether or not your purchase was worth it. With DRK delay being so large, you'll definitely notice the misses more, although you're probably not missing more than anyone else. That's just how DRKs roll.

[Malacite]

If you're really that concerned, try using some accuracy food.

Sushi is IMO something of waste still at those levels for what i costs, so I'd recommend either a Jack-o'-lantern for +10 accuracy, or rice dumplings for +5 and some attack up (the attack up sadly will be pretty low in 30's compared to other foods but it's better than nothing)

[nanatsu]

To give you some sort of perspective, at a little bit before level 60 and higher you will need at least 50+ acc from gear to hit things comfortably without using sushi. As you get higher you need more and more accuracy because mob strength scales much more quickly than player strength. That why EP pwn you later on.

Rice Dumplings are a good choice though. You really shouldn't need a ton of accuracy...yet.

[Mog]

Peacock Charm

Not to point any fingers or anything.... but how did you manage to get a peacock charm at level 38?

[nanatsu]

he said his LS got it for him.

[Mog]

ahh ok. This is what I get for not reading everything. >.<

[LyonheartLakshmi]

He mentioned "LS gil", so it sounds like he got support from his LS (static pt, perhaps?) to fund these items.

Peacock Charm is a worthwhile investment. Venerer Ring is a good alternative to stuff like Sniper's Ring and Woodsman Ring. Royal Squire's Mufflers is good for its level.

Deft Ring +1? It doesn't really provide enough of a boost over Deft Ring. I'd suggest selling the +1 back, buying a Deft Ring, and then upgrading that to a Sniper's/Woodsman Ring over time.

You haven't had both GSword and Scythe capped in several levels. It sounds like you're still trying to keep both capped at the same time. How far below cap are they? You might want to concentrate on just one of those two weapons in exp parties, and try to make use of skill up parties for the other weapon. I know skill up parties are somewhat rare at your level. But Genkai 1 is coming up. And if you don't have a bunch of high level friends who are going to farm the items for you, it's a good opportunity to skill up your other weapon. And if you *do* have higher level friends, try to talk them into doing some skill up sessions with you.

[hongman]

I wish my LS bought be 3million gil items ^^

[raidenn]

I have more accuracy than what you have and I still miss. Just bring some sushi. I prefer sushi over dumplings because dumplings are pricier in my server sometimes.

[reklesgemini]

oh snap! you guys reply quick..

ok for some minor details I left out. Current lvl I'm at is DRK38/WAR19

The LS i'm in is an endgame LS runned by two irl buddies of mine from way back in my highschool days. I'm the only one under 70 in it.. says, when the time comes... i'll have to pay them back... w/e the hell that means.

so its normal to still miss alot then? that kinda sucks
I just thought I'd hit more often, but I don't. Probably landing 2/3 swings.

I use food for str, since I'm neglecting it more then my dex.

To give you some sort of perspective, at a little bit before level 60 and higher you will need at least 50+ acc from gear to hit things comfortably without using sushi.

holy crap! >_<;


could you guys provide a list of gear that'll help with my dex/acc. ? Like the sniper ring Lyon mentioned... thanks again guys.

[reklesgemini]

oh yea, almost forgot

my Scythe lvl is at 106 and GS at 102 ;_;

am I close to capping one of them?

I'll focus on scythe mainly and lvl GS in a skill up pt... if i can ever get one goin.

[Mog]

oh yea, almost forgot

my Scythe lvl is at 106 and GS at 102 ;_;

am I close to capping one of them?

I'll focus on scythe mainly and lvl GS in a skill up pt... if i can ever get one goin.

Focus on scythe. Great Sword isn't all that great for XP parties. GS becomes more important during endgame though.

[Timian]

lolDEX...
And, what? "Elvaan accuracy"?

I thought this fad was dead years ago...

Fact:
DEX is the most useless stat in the game.
Stop stacking it, unless you're a THF.

Fact:
Elvaan accuracy does not suck, and it's not an
excuse for missing. The only noticeable racial
differences are in base HP/MP.

Fact:
What the others said was true.
+15 Accuracy is nothing. You'll need alot more
for a decent TP build, as a DRK.
Also, capping your weapon skill levels is vital.

[Armando]

Stop overhunting. It's as easy as that.

And yes, it takes a lot more than +15 Accuracy to get a 90% hit rate. A lot more.
DEX is the most useless stat in the game.I think that honor goes to CHR, unless Subtle Blow counts. It's hard to be more useless than Subtle Blow in an EXP party setting.

[reklesgemini]

.....right.


so for my current lvl, what are some good acc. gear?

[Armando]

No. I'm serious. The biggest factor in your accuracy is the level of the mob. Anything beyond low IT, and you'll suck on it.

Battle Gloves, technically Leaping Boots, in 2 levels pick up Woodsman Rings and Tilt Belt. Oh, and if you have a WAR, tell him to Shield Break. If he asks why, just tell him to do it and he'll see.

[nanatsu]

http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/advanced.php

having posted that...

Jaeger Ring and sole sushi or rice dumplings is all you can do until lvl 40 when you can get snipersx2 or woodsmansx2. Then there's life belt at lvl 48.

EDIT: Forgot about Tilt Belt.

[reklesgemini]

thanks for the link, works like a charm

but why forget the tilt belt? it's dirt cheap and i can live with the -eva

[Srxjo]

he didn't mean forget it he ment he forgot about it

[Macht]

[System Message: You are not allowed to post URLs as you have not yet contributed sufficiently. Please try again at a later time.]

Woo! another one bites the dust!!!

Yeah, really pretty much the #1 thing for your accuracy is your weapon skill. After that will be accuracy and dex. If I recall right this site has a thread were a person tested this, getting items that raise the weapon skill directly will give you far better results (which is probably why there are so few items that do skills directly).

Outside of that it's pretty much a balancing act of acc. and DEX. DEX does have synergy to improving accuracy but primarily you need the accuracy to be there for DEX make use of the synergy.

Still like though how many still assume 2 DEX = 1 acc. it was never a direct statement by SE for this to be. The only direct statement they had made was 2 STR = 1 attack, and with testing you can clearly see that 2 VIT = 1 defense. Though 2 DEX = 1 acc. point is not something I've seen hard data proving.

In most testing I've seen to figure it out the general statement was that 2 DEX = 0.7% acc out of 100% (So by end game with like 80 or so DEX it's only contributing about 28% of the accuracy. Don't recall however seeing any testing that tested +acc. items directly to see how much out of 100% they improved.

EDIT:

Though assuming that the accuacy is treated like attack and defense then it likely ramps up to huge numbers as well, then taking the assumption that SE maybe capped accuracy as a single byte variable then 1 acc. could then equal 0.3% improvement. So +15 acc. should be about a 5.8% accuracy improvement, but +10 DEX is like 3.5% accuracy improvement. +50 accuracy assuming what I was said is true (no clue, been so long since I looked at this), then that would be about a 20% accuracy improvement.

[Jei]

You need your very own personal Bard slave. Works for all level.

Either what you're hunting is too high or you're too low for what you're hunting. Don't those 2 statements mean the same thing? o_O;

[Karinya]

The #1 factor is level. DDs, especially physical ones, should avoid being more than 1 level lower than the highest level person in the party, and if everyone is having trouble hitting (or is hitting for crap damage, which happens a LOT with sushi), fight something lower level or a lower def/eva mob family. (Low def/eva mob families tend to have nasty attacks. Hope your tank is good.)

But if you hit 2/3 of the time, you're not really missing a lot for a low level party. Merit parties are fighting very weak mobs (a VT to 75 mob is nowhere near as relatively difficult as a VT to 50 or 60) and often have 15+ skill *more* than the level 75 cap (between skill merits and skill gear) in addition to their 50+ acc gear. So it's not useful to compare their hit% to that of a lower level party facing *real* VTs, or even ITs.

If you're *missing* 2/3 of the time, then you're missing a lot. Unless there is an undispelled eva boost, you're blinded or your skill is uncapped, then that monster is most likely too high level for a DD of your level to damage effectively.

[Armando]

Still like though how many still assume 2 DEX = 1 acc. it was never a direct statement by SE for this to be. The only direct statement they had made was 2 STR = 1 attack, and with testing you can clearly see that 2 VIT = 1 defense. Though 2 DEX = 1 acc. point is not something I've seen hard data proving.It's been proven multiple times on individual levels. I, too, have tested it and can vouch for its validity. The method is simple - find a mob, take off or add accuracy until you find the exact point until your /check message changes. Take off X Accuracy, then add 2X DEX, and watch the /check return to what it was. I have no links to offer, since the test is fairly straightforward and most people don't bother posting screenshots or anything about it, nor do I bother saving any links on it. I thought it was widely accepted as true by now ^^;

[nanatsu]

You need your very own personal Bard slave. Works for all level.
Don't those 2 statements mean the same thing? o_O;

They do mean the same thing. :p That was done on purpose to get my point across.

[Vyuru]

Yeah, as Armando said it has been tested.

I wouldn't nessacerily say that dex is the most useless stat in the game, stacking +dex gear at the right levels should yield some nice +crit rate results. However your damage per swing will be slightly lower than the other people who go for the +str builds, but with enough +dex your accuracy should be either on par or slightly above theirs.

I wouldn't recommend a +dex build to anyone, yes in my early days I went for this, it's a gamble if you land a critical hit or not in an exp party, I think the gamble paid off for me but I'll never be 100% sure about that. So +dex useless? I think not, but nor would I recommend it as the main stat to focus on as a two handed melee build.

And keep in mind, I had something on the order of.... +20ish acc through +dex/acc gear at your level and I had maybe a 80% hit rate I'd guess, it's been awhile.

[Malacite]

Still like though how many still assume 2 DEX = 1 acc. it was never a direct statement by SE for this to be.


Actually it was. There's an old interview done a while back with I believe Sage Sundi, and it was officially stated 2 DEX = 1 Accuracy, but they also said that +acc is the best way to go.

[Lmnop]

Just thought I should mention to the OP...

you think your acc sucks? I might suggest eyeing the acc of your fellow melee. You'll prolly find them sucking just as much. They may look like they're doing better just because they're swinging more, but if you're getting tp at roughly the same rate as them, you're doing fine (or you all suck equally -- which is the case of all pre-60 melee). Also, in a few levels you'll be getting the spell Absorb-TP (you have been casting your dark magic spells and keeping your dark magic skill leveled, right?) and when it lands, it helps significantly.

[Nazo]

oh yea, almost forgot

my Scythe lvl is at 106 and GS at 102 ;_;

am I close to capping one of them?


At lvl 38 scythe cap is 117. 1 skill level = 1 acc at your level so you're -11 acc down from your underskilled weapons, effectively leaving you at +4 overall.

[Malacite]

Don't those 2 statements mean the same thing? o_O;


Actually not necessarily, despite what's been said by the poster :P

It could also mean you are too low for that the group is fighting.


And yes, cap your scythe skill. There's your big problem right there.

[Eohmer]

Peacock Charm Not to point any fingers or anything.... but how did you manage to get a peacock charm at level 38?

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6031/thanxpu1.jpg

:rofl:

[Eohmer]

Oh yeah, and how (or why) are his weapons underleveled in skill?

I mean, don't usually they cap each lvl you are on? Just thought that was weird.

[Lmnop]

Drks don't have that luxury.

[Malacite]

It really is a pain in the ass to cap both G.Sword and Scythe while exping. Any DRK who manages it is just plain lucky with skill up rates.

[reklesgemini]

wow... some of you guys blow my mind. What are ya? GM's?

anyways, I'm going to stop trying to cap both weapons and focus on scythe from here on out for exp parties. Someone on a different forum had recommended I try capping both at the same time. Bad idea...

and I guess you're right, I have noticed my misses more then others cause my attack delay can take so damn long. But another thing I've also noticed is that my TP does go up quicker then most in the party (cept for those damn Samurai's). So that's gotta be a good thing.

Thanks alot guys, you're all very insightful.

[reklesgemini]

lol, oh and I just scrolled down thankin anyone that replied.

[Malacite]

No, don't ignore either weapon. Focusing on one in EXP is a good idea, but try to keep the other capped once the 1st one is. Failing that, look for skill up parties. It's annoying I know, but when you reach the 60's you'll really want to have access to both Guillotine and Spinning Slash.

[Lmnop]

You're in an HNMLS, you shouldn't have any trouble having one of them come voke shit for you while you swing at it for skill ups. Half hour of that should get you like 4 skill levels. Do that every once in a while and you'll be ok.

[Macht]

Actually it was. There's an old interview done a while back with I believe Sage Sundi, and it was officially stated 2 DEX = 1 Accuracy, but they also said that +acc is the best way to go.

I know Sage Sundi has done interviews about that. I only remember the statements of him saying that 2 STR = 1 attack, not 2 DEX = 1 acc.... If you can find it I'd be intrested to see since I can't seem to find it.

It's been proven multiple times on individual levels. I, too, have tested it and can vouch for its validity. The method is simple - find a mob, take off or add accuracy until you find the exact point until your /check message changes. Take off X Accuracy, then add 2X DEX, and watch the /check return to what it was. I have no links to offer, since the test is fairly straightforward and most people don't bother posting screenshots or anything about it, nor do I bother saving any links on it. I thought it was widely accepted as true by now ^^;

Actually all that this method proves is that 2 DEX is needed to cause a change that 1 acc can do. I doesn't prove that 2 DEX is exactly 1 acc. This is important to know if you are trying to shoot for something to be higher, because if 1 of the two improves just slightly more at this low a change then it'll be significantly greater an effect at larger numbers.

[Lmnop]

Actually all that this method proves is that 2 DEX is needed to cause a change that 1 acc can do. I doesn't prove that 2 DEX is exactly 1 acc. This is important to know if you are trying to shoot for something to be higher, because if 1 of the two improves just slightly more at this low a change then it'll be significantly greater an effect at larger numbers.

I'm going to arrive at the same conclusion through different logic:

2 STR = 1 Attack, but it also figures into a seperate STR part of the equation. In the same way, Dex could do that to acc.

However, Dex does crit hit rate (supposedly...) and if Dex in any way affects the evasion /check of a mob, then it's adding acc. Simple as that. Any additional function that Dex has on hit rate is plausible but at this point, kinda unlikely (much to my discontent).

[Armando]

Macht, the 2 DEX -> 1 Accuracy conversion holds true even for higher amounts of DEX. Try it yourself, you'll see. And yeah, DEX does affect crit rate, but it seems it's divided into tiers. From what I've read, your DEX needs to exceed the mob's AGI by a certain amount before your extra DEX starts having a significant effect on crit rate.

[Lmnop]

I.e. completely useless in any situation where "builds" would matter.

P.S. I've managed to land 3 of the last 6 posts in this thread! >.>;;

[Timian]

P.S. I've managed to land 3 of the last 6 posts in this thread! >.>;;

Congratulations!