What weapon is best for thief

[Antmf]

H2H or dagger? Thanks...

[Aksannyi]

In later levels Dagger really comes into its own, but at early levels it kind of sucks. I don't usually see THFs who use hand to hand, though. I've seen sword used by Thieves, and probably for the first 20 levels or so (grasping here, my THF is at 17 right now) sword will be better, but keep your dagger skilled up so you can switch it up when the better dagger weapon skills become available.

I think THF has its highest rating in Dagger though, and that's also the AF weapon if I recall correctly.

[Feba]

use H2H until lv33, then have a friend help you cap dagger, and use dagger from then on.

[Armando]

H2H is flat-out horrible without /MNK sub. With /MNK, it's ok got great spike damage with Sneak Attack + Combo, but still rather poor on the damage over time department on normal hits. In the slim chance that you level on Wights in Qufim, it's viable, though.

Sword is the best option from 1-24, although you can continue use it all the way to 32. Unlike H2H, it'll produce good results regardless of sub job.

Dagger is awful from 1-24, but catches up at 25 to other weapons if you're fighting in the jungles (since Mandragora are weak to piercing weapons.) At 33 and after, it's the only viable option.

[IfritnoItazura]

I was a Hand-to-Hand THF/MNK, and about Lv.27-28 I was really struggling for TP gain. However, I was a newbie player then, and it was before I started using sushi. A few others here have said they did fine w/out sushi up to Lv.30+ with THF/MNK, but I'm not sure if I really believe them or not.

For veteran players, I'd recommend Sword for Lv.1-32 (with as much accuracy gear as possible), and Dagger from Lv.33 onward. One would have to skill up Dagger ahead of time for that, though.

Otherwise, it is possible to go with Dagger all the way. The damage output will suffer significantly, but probably a better option for new players, since it would ensure the Dagger skill will be there when Viper Bite becomes available.

[Nitsuki]

h2h i didn't bother, i skilled that up way later on. Reason i'm saying this is because you're not gonna use H2H in the future unless you're doing Apollyon SE or something. (even then you could use club which is better cuz of true strike.)

Use sword main til 33, cap dagger at the same time, but after 33 use fulltime dagger. Try as much as you can to keep sword up there, i use my sword for spirits within when it comes to certain nms and hnms. Always keep your shit capped. And Ridill ftw.

[Mazon]

Thf/War = Sword +Shield until level 33 when you can get Viperbite weaponskill with Dagger.

Thf/Mnk = Hand-to-hand until level 33 when you can get Viperbite weaponskill with Dagger.

Solid choices until you can come into your own at 33.

[Armando]

Thf/War = Sword +Shield until level 33 when you can get Viperbite weaponskill with Dagger.

Thf/Mnk = Hand-to-hand until level 33 when you can get Viperbite weaponskill with Dagger.

Solid choices until you can come into your own at 33.But that's the thing. Even if you go /MNK, Sword will probably perform better anyways, like I said in my previous post. Martial Arts doesn't automatically make H2H good.

[Eji Kazuma]

Yeah, my THF is level 30 at the moment, haven't quite hit 33 for viper bite, but I am rather eager for that moment being soon to come. Here's how I did it though...

I ran Thf/Mnk from 1-15, it's not a bad combo at that point because even though h2h will cap 10-20 points under what your sword will and another 5-10 under what your dagger will, at that point it's absolutely nessisary to have the DoT from H2H weapons to keep yourself alive when soloing. Also, the Weapon Skills are NICE for helping you to do that little burst of damage you need to finish the monster off and stay alive.

I don't really remember how I managed to skill my dagger, I kinda floated between it and H2H mainly for the fact that with the dagger, even PARTIALLY skilled it would deal more damage then H2H would. Once you cap it though between 12-15 you should go fully for the dagger, unless you want to use Sword for "Fast Blade" and Sneak Attack.

Around level 16 I switched to WAR sub since I needed to Re-EQ anyway, and at that point I just flipped back and forth skilling sword and dagger together. Throughout the levels, dagger despite it's lowerer damage stat always seems to cause more DoT then a sword, only exception is for weapon skills because Fast Blade+Sneak Attack is gonna be far better then Any WS thf gets till Viper Bite.

Once I hit 30 I unlocked NIN and RNG, leveled them both to be viable subs for THF, in most cases RNG is the more benifitial sub but people will shun you if you aren't /nin (what's up with that? it's like saying "No we don't need a DD... just a puller")

Anyway, /NIN I use the Archer's Knife for main hand, and the Cent Sword for offhand for it's boosts. (Or Two Archer's Knives for Added RNG Acc.)

/RNG, It's pretty much just dagger and Shield like Thf/War... except you get increases to your Ranged Acc... and can really start to PWN with a crossbow.

I guess... if you have to ask me which weapon I'd use for a Thf, my ultimate answer is the crossbow. =P But as far as Melee goes, I'd say Dagger FTW.

[Amele]

thf/war with dagger to 10 - this was to get my dagger skill at least 'competent' for later, and solo dagger and sword are both ok pre SA. I already had sword from some levels of pld but you could probably cap both solo here.

I went thf/war with sword and shield 10-20. (in fact, tanked 10-15 in dunes - just wear good defensive gear).

then I went thf/nin with a sword mainhand and a 150 delay dagger offhand to 25. (I like rapier style swords personally, to get used to low delay weapons but it's a matter of taste) this let me skill dagger while not severely reducing my damage output - you'll cap dagger by 23 easily at which point you can switch in a higher damage/delay dagger.

at 25 I switched to a parry knife offhand, sword mainhand, not switching the parry knife out again until 33 when I'll put in a pair of high damage knives for SATAVB. (parry +10 is as useful as +10 evasion provided your parry is capped and makes a big difference pre TA)

using the dagger offhand will save you the trouble of skilling up on your own time, will get you used to dual dagger delay speeds, and won't sacrifice the benefit of SA Fast blade pre 33. obv. if you aren't 30+ in another job yet, you won't be able to /nin to do this, in which case, I recommend thf/war with a sword + shield to 30, then thf/nin with sword+dagger to 33. (you may need to skill your dagger up a bit before rejoining a pt though)

[Mazon]

But that's the thing. Even if you go /MNK, Sword will probably perform better anyways, like I said in my previous post. Martial Arts doesn't automatically make H2H good.


I've leveled both ways with 4 Thf characters now, and always, has Thf/Mnk outperformed Thf/War for Dmg, TP, and SA-Weaponskill. I've done it on Mithra, Hume, Galka and Mithra and results always came out the same that Thf/Mnk allowed me to do more for my pt than /war.


And for the low levels (dunes pt'ing) a Shoulder Tackle can help against those Bomb Toss when you may not have a Stunner otherwise.

[Eji Kazuma]

Problem with that is, you are going outside of what thief's scope is. Thf/War should out perform Thf/Mnk in ranged ability given that mnk isn't really made for more then throwing pebbles. (LOL)

I Guarantee, that with good skill in marksmanship and some bolts (acid, or blind) you could FAR out perform Thf/Mnk as a Thf/War at that point in the game.

I do think that Mnk Skills complement Thf well... but honestly, Thf shouldn't use H2H passed level 15 unless it's for soloing purposes. H2H is a GREAT weapon type which is what makes it's damage so good at ANY level, but it's just really like leveling a useless skill for a THF.

I'd say, keep it on the backburner after level 15 IMHO.

[Karinya]

I think the main argument for H2H is that Combo is stronger than Fast Blade. This is true, but ignores the fact that at low-mid levels THF's normal hits can still be pretty respectable (especially on non-crabs), and skill caps favor sword or dagger - you'll hit with more normal swings, doing more damage and gaining more TP, so more of your Sneak Attacks will be combined with a WS.

/MNK and H2H are good if you fight ghouls in the dunes, but don't take it too far IMO. It's not so good on crabs, and the lower skill will really hurt you against pugils' eva boost (which can't be dispelled at such low levels).

It's also possible to go THF/NIN 24-29 and use a sword and dagger - you still have a decent WS but can skillup both weapons and gain some DoT and TP from the dagger, as well as Utsusemi which is convenient for pulling. Higher total delay can make it easier to time SA+WS (if you're still having trouble). After 30 this doesn't compare well to THF/WAR with Berserk, though, and /NIN should be used only if you need it to survive pulls.

Oh, and avoid sushi as a thief if possible. SA and TA (after 60) always hit, but the amount they hit for is influenced considerably by attack. Get only enough accuracy to have a decent rate of normal hits and TP gain and put as much as you can into attack. You'll hit harder with normal attacks and a *lot* harder with SATA and SATAWS. If you are lower level than the rest of the party or fighting particularly high evasion mobs you may be forced into using sushi, but most of the time you should see more overall damage with meat. (Actually this holds for any DD, but especially for THF given the mechanics of SA and TA.)

[Tirrock]

Problem with that is, you are going outside of what thief's scope is. Thf/War should out perform Thf/Mnk in ranged ability given that mnk isn't really made for more then throwing pebbles. (LOL)
I Guarantee, that with good skill in marksmanship and some bolts (acid, or blind) you could FAR out perform Thf/Mnk as a Thf/War at that point in the game.
I do think that Mnk Skills complement Thf well... but honestly, Thf shouldn't use H2H passed level 15 unless it's for soloing purposes. H2H is a GREAT weapon type which is what makes it's damage so good at ANY level, but it's just really like leveling a useless skill for a THF.
I'd say, keep it on the backburner after level 15 IMHO.

Main job levels determine things like marksmenship skill. So /WAR and /MNK would be the same for shooting things until level 30, when WAR gets berserk.

I personally prefer /RNG from 20-30...+10(r)acc at a level when there's almost no melee accuracy gear. It's not like you're getting more than 10 DEF and provoke from /WAR at those levels anyway. (Or boost for subbing MNK.) For people who don't have dagger already leveled, but have NIN unlocked, I agree with Karinya. Level your dagger on easy preys to get it some levels. Then offhand a dagger and use a sword. You get sword WS and dagger skill, a happy medium.

Oh, and avoid sushi as a thief if possible. SA and TA (after 60) always hit, but the amount they hit for is influenced considerably by attack. Get only enough accuracy to have a decent rate of normal hits and TP gain and put as much as you can into attack.

Absolutely. Use rice dumplings. They're barely more expensive than meat mithkabobs and provide 5 accuracy, a healthy amount of (ranged) attack too. Caps at +45 attack at 225 attack. That should last you until the levels where you get more accuracy gear.

[Eji Kazuma]

Indeed... we should all live our lives by the powers of the Rice Dumplings... and worship them and their creators for being so bad ass... (Oh yes, I LOVE Rice Dumplings!)

[711rocks]

It's easy to keep sword, dagger, and h2h capped as you level to 33. Didn't anyone else switch? D: Gives you some versatility too if you have a good pt that can do SCs in the 20s. After ToAU now I wouldn't be at all surprised though if the jungles now have a bunch of 28mnk/14nins trying to TP burn with their hax combos and one-inch punches.

Edit: and don't give me bs about no acc either, I did that back in the day when the only food people ate were kabobs or pies. Not to mention ffxi has added better gear since back then.

[Armando]

I've leveled both ways with 4 Thf characters now, and always, has Thf/Mnk outperformed Thf/War for Dmg, TP, and SA-Weaponskill. I've done it on Mithra, Hume, Galka and Mithra and results always came out the same that Thf/Mnk allowed me to do more for my pt than /war.I generally don't recycle posts, but this is the reason why H2H isn't that good.Let's see, at Level 18 your options, within reasonable availability, are...

Baselard:
DMG: 08 | Delay: 186 | DMG/sec: 2.58
HQ version not considered due to rarity.

Flame Sword:
DMG: 16 | Delay: 218 | DMG/sec: 4.40
Attack -8, Accuracy -8 compared to daggers.

H2H base DMG (@46 skill): 8
H2H Delay @MA1: 400
Republic Knuckles:
DMG: 14 | Delay: 476 | DMG/sec (per hand): 3.53
Attack -8, Accuracy -9 compared to daggers (+stats already taken into account.)

The winner is Flame Sword. -8 Acc/Atk can be painful, but not only does it boast stronger WS than daggers, it has 171% the Baselard's DMG/sec. There's just no way that +8 Acc/Attack can make up for 71% more damage over time on the Flame Sword. H2H wins in WS damage, but the fact that Flame Sword has 125% more DMG/sec makes me question its ability to come out on top for overall damage. Still, if you need Fusion, it's an option. Without Martial Arts, your Delay shoots up to 480+76, rendering your DMG/sec ridiculously low.

You won't see a new, better, purchasable sword 'til Gladius/Gladiator at 27, which only has 4.47/4.58 DMG/sec. On the other hand (no pun intended...ok, just a bit) H2H doesn't see too much improvement during that level stretch, either. Daggers are still seriously trailing behind in DMG/sec 'til 24, but then pick up significantly at 25 with Federation Knife (DMG/sec 4.22, Acc+2, Attack+5.) Add on +25% damage from hitting piercing-weak mandies, and you're golden.

Personally, I'd say THF/WAR or /MNK with a Flame Sword would be best from 18-19, THF/RNG or THF/NIN with Flame Swords from 20-24, and THF/RNG or THF/NIN with Federation Knives from 25-29. At 30, as you all know, Berserk becomes available on /WAR.

[Spider-Dan]

I think the main argument for H2H is that Combo is stronger than Fast Blade. This is true, but ignores the fact that at low-mid levels THF's normal hits can still be pretty respectable (especially on non-crabs), and skill caps favor sword or dagger - you'll hit with more normal swings, doing more damage and gaining more TP, so more of your Sneak Attacks will be combined with a WS.
The skill difference between sword and H2H is pretty insignificant. For example, at LV15, the ATK/ACC bonuses on a pair of Kingdom Cesti put H2H above sword (given that there is no viable sword at the same level with ATK or ACC bonuses).

I know the common attitude of disdain towards low-level /NIN, but in the case of THF, it's worth considering. You can mainhand a sword for decent SA+WS and offhand a dagger for improved TP gain (plus bonuses, in the case of something like Fed. Knife).

[John Doe III]

Inless your gear is pretty horrible, then lower level TP gaining isn't so much of something to worry about constantly anyways. You will either hit or miss. Thief/monk while using H2H is by far the best choice to 33 depending on what you are fighting and what the renkei is.

[Yosena]

Even though everyone says daggers suck, with my 29 thf I can't help but keep preferring them. The natural 10 atk/acc that I have at this level from skill alone, and the +2 daggers available at level 25, and that a lot of groups fight mandragora-type monsters makes dagger look really good. Yeah, SA + fast blade can do distortion, but a 100% TP SA + fast blade usually does about as much damage as a non-weapon skill dagger SA (on piercing-weak monsters). Gust slash seems to do pretty decent damage by itself too, and my TP goes up a lot faster with a dagger- less misses, and less hits for 0. Trying to use a sword and trying to chain with a class using their primary weapon can really suck especially on high IT.

[Malacite]

Dagger and Crossbow (Acid Bolts)

[hongman]

I vote Sword till ViperBite lvls.... Sneak Attack + Fast Blade is pretty much consistent with good Damage over time.

H2H...I would avoid, especially a new player who may not have the Gil for the slightly "better gear", and the higher up you go, the more noticeable it will be, as THF has E if I remember right in H2H.

[DakAttack]

At around 25 Daggers are fine. You should be able to SA Shadowbind for as much as Fast Blade.

[Malacite]

Okay, I'll explain my choices a little better;


You'll want to keep dagger capped at every level since it will be your main weapon from 33 and on. That said, you should also use a sword. While Sneak Attack + Combo will do higher damage than SA + Fast Blade, sword will gain TP faster and do more damage over all because of the difference in skill ratings.

Armando tested this to death in a previous thread and it was found that sword does win out in the end despite lower potential WS damage. Keep in mind that for SA Combo to beat out Fast Blade all 3 hits need to land, which can be difficult given THF's E (the lowest possible) rank in Hand to Hand. (Sword is D)

Personally I found eating meat and using dagger from lv 1 on was just fine since THF has an A- rank in dagger and therefor much more accuracy and attack than with say a sword. Gust Slash usually does decent damage on it's own and so I just used Sneak Attack by itself (I actually found that using fast blade and sneak attack separately rather than together did more damage over all)


Keep marksmanship handy too. You'll have to level another job like WAR or RNG to keep it capped until you can use it though, since the first bolts THF can use (and the most useful) are acid bolts at level 16. Since the job has no way to actually skill up marksmanship until then (unless you want to use a gun and those really crappy bullets) you'll need WAR or RNG to keep it capped until you can use them on THF.

You only have a C+ rating in marksmanship on THF, but it's usually enough (especially with sushi) to land those bolts for -12.5% defense. This is *very* helpful by the way, especially against mobs like crab that use defense up moves (the acid bolt replaces their defense up with the def down so it's a great pre-dispel tool!)

[Armando]

(I actually found that using fast blade and sneak attack separately rather than together did more damage over all)This shouldn't be so; the way the damage formulas work, SAWS + Normal hit is slightly stronger than WS + SA Normal hit.

[Razoul]

I always figured that DW Mithran Scimitar for the +6 Dex was the best bet till viper bite.

[Malacite]

This shouldn't be so; the way the damage formulas work, SAWS + Normal hit is slightly stronger than WS + SA Normal hit.


Well that's how it always worked for me at least. But then I'm am Elvaan with LOLDEX so who knows.

[711rocks]

Keep marksmanship handy too. You'll have to level another job like WAR or RNG to keep it capped until you can use it though, since the first bolts THF can use (and the most useful) are acid bolts at level 16. Since the job has no way to actually skill up marksmanship until then (unless you want to use a gun and those really crappy bullets) you'll need WAR or RNG to keep it capped until you can use them on THF.
You only have a C+ rating in marksmanship on THF, but it's usually enough (especially with sushi) to land those bolts for -12.5% defense. This is *very* helpful by the way, especially against mobs like crab that use defense up moves (the acid bolt replaces their defense up with the def down so it's a great pre-dispel tool!)

Blind bolts level 10
Shoot them for extra damage/TP, with a blinding effect for an added bonus.
Actually, you'll probably be a straight-up enfeebler with that because level 15 blms only nukenukenukenukedie
and will never enfeeble the mob.