Figuring out what makes Quick Draw tick..

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

OK, so we know Quick Draw affects the potency of enfeebles.

We know that bullet and gun DMG determine the base damage of Elemental Quick Draw.

We know Magic Attack items, food and Staves can boost the damage, too.

We know its a Magic-based attack

And we know the magical properties can be resisted (though there was a bit of debate about that months back in regards to Light and Dark Shot.)

Yet there are aspects that contradict these facts.

Just as an example, its pull out our good friend, the Colibri:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/thumb/1/1d/Colibri.jpg/180px-Colibri.jpg

Eats food, mimics spells, weak to piercing, vulnerable to physical magic (BLU, SMN)

He's resistant to Elemental Quick Draw (Earth, Fire, Wather, Wind, Lightning, Ice), yet, quite suseptable to Light Shot. Even though all these Quick Draws register as magic, Colibri don't reflect them at all. Quick Draw is tool-based like Ninjutsu is, but NIN magic gets mimiced.

But add to this that Light Shot is not only extremely successful in sleeping Colibri, it pretty much succeeds everywhere else. I've slept all sorts of things with it, pretty much at the same rate as a BRD would in merit, however, I see BRDs get Lullaby resists more than I do, I'd say I get 2 resists maybe in two hours, meanwhile a BRD could see about 10 in that time.

AGI is said to be our modifier for Quick Draw Accuracy. To be honest, I can't tell much of a difference between having 15-20 AGI and having 25-30. I've seen other CORs pull massive AGI build and I can't see a need for it. Add to this that I can't really tell if my QD Accuracy was any different before I started merriting it. When ever the level gap as reasonable, I've had pretty good results.

I posed a theory back in the Light/Dark shot thread that AGI was stacked against mob AGI to land Quick Draw. Given the fact that I see so few resists versus a BRD doing lullaby at the same rate (with a resepectable CHR build, at that), I'm starting to think I was on to something with that.

But lets consider something else - is it really magic? As stated earlier, the only magic colibri don't reflect is physical magic. And the resist rate of Light Shot is very low. The base damage of a QD is determined by the physical damage of the gun and bullet, magic attack is a secondary.

So I'm inclined to belive Quick Draw is, in fact, physical magic first, magical second. AGI does not determine magical properties for other jobs, its usually physical like Evasion or Ranged attack. If Quick Draw is physical and AGI determines its accuracy, then it must be stacked against mob AGI. That would also mean accuracy would factor ahead of resist rate.

Its puzzling, I'm still trying to figure it all out. I not 100% sure why Light Shot amoung them all is so damn accurate, I just have a few guesses. Not that I'm complaining about the accuracy, mind you, I'm just curious why that is.

[Mouser]

Just a note in re BLU spells. Colbri don't return magic any BLU spells, including the purely magical ones. Which makes BLU burns on Greater Colbri very popular as the BLUs can use MP Drainkiss to keep their MP up.

It may just be that things like COR quickdraw and BLU spells aren't on the Colbri's 'spell list', so it can't return them. Not sure why, but I'm not complaining!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Just a note in re BLU spells. Colbri don't return magic any BLU spells, including the purely magical ones. Which makes BLU burns on Greater Colbri very popular as the BLUs can use MP Drainkiss to keep their MP up.

It may just be that things like COR quickdraw and BLU spells aren't on the Colbri's 'spell list', so it can't return them. Not sure why, but I'm not complaining!

I suppose I could also be that the jobs are native to the region and would be used to getting around such tricks.

[Spider-Dan]

Chi Blast is magical damage, but colibri don't return those. Same for Red Lotus Blade, Spirits Within, holy bolt effect, etc.

I think colibri can only mimic actual spells (i.e. those which you can't use while silenced), with a somewhat-arbitrary exception for Blue Magic... which I suppose Squenix could spin as Blue Magic technically being "TP moves" and not real spells. I mean, if a BST's pet fly uses Cursed Sphere on a colibri, should it mimic it?

But maybe Blue Magic is just an oversight.

As far as QD being "physical magic" vs. "magical magic," do physical BLU spells like Death Scissors work against mob with Magic Shield up? Because QD doesn't.

[Malacite]

Physical spells factor in Enemy VIT and DEF ratings, then apply level penalties for damage reduction by the mob. Nowhere in the equation do any Magical defense traits/abilities/etc factor in.

[Armando]

As far as QD being "physical magic" vs. "magical magic," do physical BLU spells like Death Scissors work against mob with Magic Shield up? Because QD doesn't.Yes, yes they do. And I've seen them do 0 when Invincible is up (BCNM.)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I think colibri can only mimic actual spells (i.e. those which you can't use while silenced), with a somewhat-arbitrary exception for Blue Magic... which I suppose Squenix could spin as Blue Magic technically being "TP moves" and not real spells. I mean, if a BST's pet fly uses Cursed Sphere on a colibri, should it mimic it?

Well, avatars are also technically magical, but Colibri don't reflect Double Slap or Eclipse Bite. I don't see a Colibri summon Shiva when Shiva hits them. They will, however, eat a Diamond Dust like nothing happened, but not reflect it. Be pretty nasty if they could reflect that. But then summoner magic as always been exempted from the Reflect.

Why would they not reflect QD if it was "magical magic?" Colibri don't have NIN tools, but they toss NIN spells back. QD is consumable-based, after all. If its pure magic, then it would be reflected.


But maybe Blue Magic is just an oversight.

nah, I think BLU got this exemption just like SMN did in other games. I don't recall Blue and Summon magic reflected anywhere but the Tactics series.

Anyway. This was more about why Light Shot was so much more accurate than Lullaby from what I've observed. I can understand why a Black Pudding will resist Dark Sleep, but on the same mob, Light Shot was more reliable than Lullaby before I even meritted QD accuracy to full. The only general mobs I do seem to get common resists are on - oddly enough - Detectors in Sky. Its about 50/50 on those, but they're very suceptable to Dark Sleep.

I have a friend, immensely good BRD, full merits for it and in wind skill. Great gear, yet on various mobs she has more trouble landing sleep than I do. She's not resisted that much, mind you, but still enough to notice when I crank out a Light Shot per fight elsewhere. She still gets it most of the time, but three or four times in a PT, I tag a mob that resisted Lullaby with Light Shot.

This was, again, before full merits on QD and even before I completed an AGI build I was happy with. Now I don't seem to miss Light Shot at all save for those damn Detectors. But reading up on them just, the are listed as having high evasion, which brings us back to the question of QD's accuracy being stacked against AGI.

Mamool Ja THF and NIN used to be a big problem for me pre-merits on Light Shot, but with full merits and +35 AGI, they're not a problem. The other mobs I've used Light Shot on aside from Detector and those mamools aren't terribly evasive, yet I've seen more resists on Lullaby than Light Shot.

If QD is purely magic, it doesn't add up. A BRD with as much or more CHR gear on than I do AGI should see the same a similar success rate and they have two sleeps they can crack out versus our one.

[Malacite]

I have a friend, immensely good BRD, full merits for it and in wind skill.

Is your friend still using Mary's horn over Nursemaid's Harp?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Is your friend still using Mary's horn over Nursemaid's Harp?

I've personally seen the difference when I was BRD, Mary's Horn lands Lullaby better than Nursmaid's Harp does. Its a mystery, for sure, but the Lullaby advantage Nursemaid's appears to have is really non-existant.

That's why Mary's Horn goes for a pretty penny, aside from how good it is for the level you can obtain it.

[Malacite]

o. O that's messed up, that really is.

With every other song each +1 to it is much, much more powerful than more +skill unless you have a serious chunk of it.

[Spider-Dan]

Why would they not reflect QD if it was "magical magic?" Colibri don't have NIN tools, but they toss NIN spells back. QD is consumable-based, after all. If its pure magic, then it would be reflected.
QD is a Job Ability. Ninjutsu are spells that you learn from a scroll and can't use while silenced.

Consumables have nothing to do with it. What do Hojo, Slow, and Elegy have in common when it comes to consumables? Nothing; Hojo uses a tool, Slow uses MP, Elegy uses nothing at all. Yet all are mimiced.

Furthermore, Shadowbind and Angon both use consumables, yet they are not mimiced. Consumables have nothing to do with it.

If QD is purely magic, it doesn't add up. A BRD with as much or more CHR gear on than I do AGI should see the same a similar success rate and they have two sleeps they can crack out versus our one.
BRD has C rank musical skills, WHM has C rank enfeebling, yet BRD is much more accurate than WHM at debuffing. Why?

RDM has A+ enfeebling, yet RNG's Shadowbind is far more accurate than RDM's bind on any mob. Why?

The reason why QD is more accurate than Lullaby is because it's simply a more accurate attack. No further explanation is necessary. There's no basis on which you can say that a BRD with x CHR should have the same success as a COR with x AGI. If anything, the fact that they have two sleeps and we only get one should be a clue as to why the devs made our sleep so much more accurate than theirs.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Subconsciously I realize all this, I think I sometimes post this aloof because it will make someone have an aneurysm

:evil:

All the same, I do think there is something to mob evasion vs AGI when It comes to COR.

[Malacite]

Subconsciously I realize all this, I think I sometimes post this aloof because it will make someone have an aneurysm


OOOOH! SOUNDS LIKE FUN! GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE!

<.< >.>


/sarcasm


Though there are times in-game... @. @

[Zempten]

Since we're on the topic of Quick Shot here, I was wondering which Quick Shot do you guys usually use?

I'm thinking....

Earth Shot for PLDs to make the Slow stronger or Dark Shot for PLDs since it'll help lower the mobs ATK.

Light Shot for NINs because it enhances Dia.

Basically I'm wondering if I'm using the wrong Quick Shots. Please let me know.

Also another question about Quick Shot is how are you geared for it? I currently stand at . . . .

Hand: Archer's Knife
Ranged: Darksteel Hexagun +1
Ammo: Bullets
Head: Emp Hairpin
Neck: Peacock Charm
Ear1: Drone Earring
Ear2: Drone Earring
Body: Iron Musketeer Gambison
Hands: Noct Gloves +1
Ring1: Reflex Ring
Ring2: Reflex Ring
Back: Nomad's Mantle
Waist: Gun Belt
Legs: Noct Legs +1
Feet: Leaping Boots

I know it's AGI, but I don't know if I'm missing any armor that could add more AGI to it. Also is swapping a Drone Earring -> Moldative worth it? Does it decrease my accuracy any?

Lastly, what is the DMG range of Quick Shot? Mine seems to be at 144. Does it go up any higher as you lvl and use of Magic ATK Bonus?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Since we're on the topic of Quick Shot here, I was wondering which Quick Shot do you guys usually use?

I'm thinking....

Earth Shot for PLDs to make the Slow stronger or Dark Shot for PLDs since it'll help lower the mobs ATK.

Light Shot for NINs because it enhances Dia.

Basically I'm wondering if I'm using the wrong Quick Shots. Please let me know.

Also another question about Quick Shot is how are you geared for it? I currently stand at . . . .

Hand: Archer's Knife
Ranged: Darksteel Hexagun +1
Ammo: Bullets
Head: Emp Hairpin
Neck: Peacock Charm
Ear1: Drone Earring
Ear2: Drone Earring
Body: Iron Musketeer Gambison
Hands: Noct Gloves +1
Ring1: Reflex Ring
Ring2: Reflex Ring
Back: Nomad's Mantle
Waist: Gun Belt
Legs: Noct Legs +1
Feet: Leaping Boots

I know it's AGI, but I don't know if I'm missing any armor that could add more AGI to it. Also is swapping a Drone Earring -> Moldative worth it? Does it decrease my accuracy any?

Lastly, what is the DMG range of Quick Shot? Mine seems to be at 144. Does it go up any higher as you lvl and use of Magic ATK Bonus?

Your gear sounds on the mark for Quick Draw macros at your level. As for applying QD, you have the right idea, its just a matter if your mages and ninjas know to use enfeebles or not.

As for Moldavite earring, its just for higher QD damage, you won't lose much in the way of QD accuracy if you use it.