Bar-spells worthless/other newbie WHM ??'s

[Effedup]

My LS recently added a new member, and we decided to form a partial static in order to get him levelled up quickly in order to party with him with our higher level jobs. I decided to level WHM up with him, as I've never played as main healer and wanted to give it a shot.

The thing is, I'm noticing my Bar-spells aren't working for crap. We have been trio-ing in La Thiene on EM/T funguars, Orcs, and crabs and it seems like, despite all my efforts, my other two party members end up paralyzed or poisoned. I cast barparalyzra and barsleepra before every mob (when appropriate) but it seems like it does next to nothing...I'd estimate that I can only prevent these from landing one time in ten. I'm a little confused in that the spells always take effect everytime I cast them, they just don't actually block anything.

Given this situation, is it worth it to be casting these spells? Right now it seems like it's just a waste of MP...and seeing as how we're about to form full parties in the Dunes pretty soon, I'm obviously all for MP conservation. I'm getting next to nothing for skillups with these spells, so I don't see a benefit as of now.

Also, outside of protect and obviously curing, what other spells should I be thinking about in the 14-20 range in the dunes? Luckily, I have a BRD/WHM in my static, with an astral ring, so I've got a backup healer at my disposal should things go badly now, but said LS member is going to be changing to a melee job sometime in the 20's, so I can't depend on that, and want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.

Also, as main healer, do I need to concern myself with magic-bursting? As of now I'm only worrying about healing and support spells, but if I'm going to be expected to mb at some point I'd like to know so I can get some practice in (I've never done it before).

Last question (I promise!): What foods should I be eating? Right now I'm eating Apple Pie +1's and Grape Juice but I'm open to suggestions...

Sorry so long, and thanks in advance! ^^

[Taskmage]

Heh yay another opportunity to quote myself :3Bar- spells increase your resistance to an element or status effect. They scale in effectiveness based on your enhancing magic skill.

Most players underappreciate resistance effects because they do not give a straight % reduction in damage or effectiveness like in other games. Rather, what resistance does is decrease the accuracy of magic that gets cast against you. For damage spells, this means you have a higher chance to take 1/2 damage, or 1/4, 1/8 or 1/16 the spell's normal damage. For status effects, resistance gives you a chance at a reduced duration. There is a chance that the effect will be completely resisted, but unless you're fighting a mob much lower level than you, the chance is rather slim.

See a more thorough explanation of resistance here:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Resistance

Because the effect is random, it may not always work, so some players will cast Barfira againt goblins or Barsleepra against mandragoras and then write the spell off as useless because they see people take full damage from Bomb Toss or still get put to sleep by Dream Flower. If you use the spells consistently over time however, you'll start to notice some people taking a lot less damage than others, or waking up before everyone else. Especially at higher levels when your enhancing magic skill reaches more impressive numbers, casting the appropriate Bar- spell before battles can significantly cut down the the amount of mp you spend curing people, taking the edge off nasty AoEs like Cursed Sphere and Bomb Toss.

Another tip so long as I'm rambling on: Every status effect is also associated with an element. For example, poison is a water-elemental status, so if you cast both Barwater and Barpoison on yourself, your resistance to poison will be much higher than if you only cast one or the other. You can get a complete list of the elemental relationships of status effects by talking to Noragu-Meragu behind the Orastery in Port Windurst.In the dunes, Cure and Cure II are pretty much the only spells you need to conern yourself with. Magic bursting as a whm adds a really tiny amount of damage to the party's output, and by doing damage you're giving yourself more enmity. Don't concern yourself with it unless you just have more mp than you know what to do with and the party's going really well. If you want to keep your divine skill up and have a little extra mp, throwing a banish when the mob is almost dead does the job.

Whm food is ginger/wizard cookies now and forever. Your max mp doesn't affect the party's performance so much as the speed at which you regain your mp. More hMP means less time sitting between pulls, faster experience and higher, safer chains. There are other options such as mushroom food that give you some max mp, mnd, hMP and -enmity, but cookies are pretty much the staple food.

[Mhurron]

Bar-status spells don't prevent that status from landing, it shortens the time the spell stays active. They are of dubious value.

Bar-element spells on the other hand are very usefull. BarFire can mean the difference between wiping or living through a Goblin Bomb for instance.

[Taskmage]

Most barstatus spells are useless in a party, since you're going to be standing out of range of the status effect anyway, and you can -na anyone that gets hit by them. If you're worried that you might get hit with petrify, sleep or paralyze, any of which would make you unable to heal yourself or others, it might be prudent to keep that bar- on yourself to possibly shorten the duration that you're helpless. For silence, it's better to just keep a stack of echo drops handy.

[Feenicks]

I remember reading a post somewhere by someone who did extensive testing with Bar-element and Bar-status in Dynamis. He basically piled on as much +Earth gear he could and with Barstonra got his Earth Resistance up to 150+. Together with Barpetra he was fully resisting Breakga almost every time.

So as Taskmage said, the spells are far from useless but because they don't completely resist spells then people write them off as useless. When you hit 50, try hunting Mandragoras again with Barsleepra and whilst wearing an Insomnia Earring - you'll only get slept about 10% of the time.

[Kildem]

I don't know if anyone said it, i did not read all the posts. The effect of a bar spells shortening a status you have depends on the level of your enhancing magic.

[IfritnoItazura]

Whm food is ginger/wizard cookies now and forever.

I'm sure you mean Imperial Coffee (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Imperial_Coffee) (+1 (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Imperial_Coffee_Plus_1)) or Buche au Chocolat (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Buche_au_Chocolat) instead. >_> <_<;

Using cookies over and over and have it wear off in the middle of resting is a pain. Cheap three hour food is the way to go. :P

[Mhurron]

I'm sure you mean Imperial Coffee (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Imperial_Coffee) (+1 (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Imperial_Coffee_Plus_1)) or Buche au Chocolat (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Buche_au_Chocolat) instead. >_> <_<;
Using cookies over and over and have it wear off in the middle of resting is a pain. Cheap three hour food is the way to go. :P
Hm, 3hMP/4hmp for the coffee, 5hmp for the Chocolate (area effect food that could piss off you party if you use it at the wrong time), 5hmp for Ginger cookies sold from a vendor for incredibly cheap, or 7hMP from the Wizards Cookie.

I think the cookies win. Too bad you can't coat the cookies in Chocolate and dip them in your coffee :P

[Taskmage]

Good tip. Coffee +1 and that cake are rather intermittant on the AH on Lakshmi, at least last time I checked, so I don't tend to think of them. But yeah, they're much more convenient than ginger cookies and just as good. Wizards would be better, but they're overpriced imo.

Edit: Actually, it's 3/5 hmp for coffee/coffee+1 and 4 hmp for the chocolat according to the stats on the wiki.

[Raydeus]

I want a coffee and some cookies now. :rofl:


Sadly Bar-status spells werent fixed after SE nerfed resistence (or at least that's what it seems from the update history), but stacking Bar-element with the Bar-status helps not only to resist the spell but also reduce the time the effect is active (in case you don't have the -na spell).

I tested that soloing poisonous mobs, stacking Barwater with Barpoison reduced the time the effect was on me by a lot, and many times Barwater alone would let me resist the effect.

This was as PLD/RDM so the effect of both spells was reduced a bit due to skill issues.

[Mhurron]

Edit: Actually, it's 3/5 hmp for coffee/coffee+1 and 4 hmp for the chocolat according to the stats on the wiki.
Silly me. I looked at them all then double checked what the cookies did. I must have mixed up what did what.

[fencingkitty]

If cash isn't a worry, I like Mushroom Stew http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Mushroom_Stew
-emnity, +mnd, +4hMp and some other bits for a 3 hour food at about 7-10k a stew.

also theres a 20 belt thats +mp and +1hMp, the Mohbwa Sash.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Mohbwa_Sash

[Feenicks]

I don't know if anyone said it, i did not read all the posts. The effect of a bar spells shortening a status you have depends on the level of your enhancing magic.
I don't want to be a butt, but what's the point of posting in a thread that you haven't read?

[little ninja]

Bar-status spells don't prevent that status from landing, it shortens the time the spell stays active. They are of dubious value.
Bar-element spells on the other hand are very usefull. BarFire can mean the difference between wiping or living through a Goblin Bomb for instance.

Thats basically one of the only ones i used. That an barwater vs the crabs...

[Necropolis]

As for food I stick with cookies in exp parties, unless I know the party isn't going to let me die for 3 hours. Much prefer losing a cookie that is 2k/stack for 99, than 1k for a single cup of coffee.

Even in a static party with friends, you are bound to die from time to time in the dunes. I started using brain stew in the 60s, and was nice for the 3 hour effect, but went back to cookies the first time I died right after using it. Lost 20k <.<

Bar spells have been covered already, but I've always used them. I especially used bar-sleepra for mandys in the jungles. Or mainly on mobs that had AOE effecrs. Single targets I found it just as easy to -na them than spend time and MP bar- ing them.

As for magic bursting, I wouldn't waste the time or MP till later on. I started really MBing in late early 70s on light Skillchains with Banish III and Holy. Any nukes from your blm sub IMO is not worth the time or MP.

[IfritnoItazura]

Hm, 3hMP/4hmp for the coffee, 5hmp for the Chocolate (area effect food that could piss off you party if you use it at the wrong time), 5hmp for Ginger cookies sold from a vendor for incredibly cheap, or 7hMP from the Wizards Cookie.

Yes, cookies have better stats, but I find them annoying. Frequently, I'd forget to use one, then have to get up again. Or, the food effect would wear off in the middle of resting. A constant, always there hMP+3 is better than hMP+5 from a fussy food for me. I'd have to think harder about three hour hMP+3 vs. Wizard's hMP+7, but I'm not in the habit of buying those.

I actually prefer Buche au Chocolat (hMP+4) over the NQ Imperial Coffee--its AoE is pretty small, and on my BLM I share it with the static RDM.

[Olorin401]

Bar-status spells don't prevent that status from landing, it shortens the time the spell stays active. They are of dubious value.
Bar-element spells on the other hand are very usefull. BarFire can mean the difference between wiping or living through a Goblin Bomb for instance.
The equipment you use also makes a huge difference in the overall effectiveness of your Bar-Status and Bar-Element spells. I'm not just talking about the bonus you get by wearing Blessed Briault (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Blessed_Briault) or Cleric's Pantaloons (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Cleric%27s_Pantaloons). As mentioned before your Enhancing Magic skill level also makes a big difference in the resistance quality of these spells. That means the bonus given by Enhancing Torque and your Artifact/Relic armor do make a difference.

Likewise, I've also found that having the proper elemental staff equipped also makes these spells more potent. For example, equipping a Water Staff (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Water_Staff) gives a 10% bonus to Barfira. This holds true for barstatus spells also - If you equip an Ice Staff before you cast Barsilence, it would also have a 10% potency bonus.

[Taskmage]

Likewise, I've also found that having the proper elemental staff equipped also makes these spells more potent. For example, equipping a Water Staff (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Water_Staff) gives a 10% bonus to Barfira. This holds true for barstatus spells also - If you equip an Ice Staff before you cast Barsilence, it would also have a 10% potency bonus.I'm not in a position to confirm this atm, but I'm pretty sure it's not true. Using the corresponding elemental staff doesn't make the spell increase your resistance any more than normal. Elemental staves do have a bonus to resistance on them when you have them equipped. That's probably the difference you saw.

[Necropolis]

Likewise, I've also found that having the proper elemental staff equipped also makes these spells more potent. For example, equipping a Water Staff (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Water_Staff) gives a 10% bonus to Barfira. This holds true for barstatus spells also - If you equip an Ice Staff before you cast Barsilence, it would also have a 10% potency bonus.

I don't believe this is true either. With capped enhancing, Cleric Pantaloons, and 2 merits in bar spells I get 110 resistance no matter what staff I have equiped. Anything with +enhancing skill could potentially up the resistance a bit more, but I'm unsure as to how much would be needed to notice this.

[Olorin401]

I'm not in a position to confirm this atm, but I'm pretty sure it's not true. Using the corresponding elemental staff doesn't make the spell increase your resistance any more than normal. Elemental staves do have a bonus to resistance on them when you have them equipped. That's probably the difference you saw.
I don't believe this is true either. With capped enhancing, Cleric Pantaloons, and 2 merits in bar spells I get 110 resistance no matter what staff I have equiped. Anything with +enhancing skill could potentially up the resistance a bit more, but I'm unsure as to how much would be needed to notice this.
I would suggest testing it out. I've done so with Neptune's Staff/Barfira quite a bit over the past three months (I have lots of chances since I do Dynamis a LOT) and it's made a noticeable difference in the +fire resistance among my party members. Like anything it's not a 100% solution, but at least from what I've seen it works.

Now that I think of it, I haven't asked my other group members to try it. Hmmm..

[Necropolis]

I would suggest testing it out. I've done so with Neptune's Staff/Barfira quite a bit over the past three months (I have lots of chances since I do Dynamis a LOT) and it's made a noticeable difference in the +fire resistance among my party members. Like anything it's not a 100% solution, but at least from what I've seen it works.

Now that I think of it, I haven't asked my other group members to try it. Hmmm..

I'll try it when I get home tonight. I know that water staff, like all elemental staves, have the +15 to the opposite element, but I believe it wears once you change weapons.

If it says it gives a 10% bonus to the staff itself, I would get 110 from the spell, 11 from the bonus, and then the +15 from the staff itself, bringing me to 136 resistance. 15 of that would go away from swapping weapons of course, but I don't believe I've ever had my resistance that high unless I was wearing equipment with additional resistance.

This is interesting. Would you happen to know if HQ staves give a +15% likewise?

EDIT: Bah, just checked on wiki, and the staves indeed give a +10%/15% bonus to spells of that type (barfira is water based, so water/Neptune's staff). I was happy just carrying my light/dark staves on whm, now I gotta lug them all around with me. Thanks Olorin.

[IfritnoItazura]

Likewise, I've also found that having the proper elemental staff equipped also makes these spells more potent. For example, equipping a Water Staff (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Water_Staff) gives a 10% bonus to Barfira.

Lie. >_>

Just tested it on BLM51/WHM25 with Barfira; party member reports fire resistance of 67 without weapon, and 67 with Water Staff equipped.

(Water Staff itself adds Fire+15, but that's not transferable to party members, and it does not add to the power of Barfira.)

[Necropolis]

Yea I miss interpretted what wiki said. Says it gives a bonus to spells of the type of staff, but I think those are elemental spells only. Just assumed with the link to spells that those were all enhanced by the staff but they weren't.

I tested on 75 whm and on a 75 rdm. I get the same resistance regardless of the staff I'm using at the time.

But the staves do enough IMO. Add elemental resistance would of been a nice bonus, but I'm still happy with them.

Anyways....where were we going with this? Ah yea...bar spells are useful, bar-element are always usefull, bar-statis aren't really as usefull untill later on, or at least in my opinion. Not that they hurt any, but not necessarily required at your level quite yet. (I do recommend bar-sleepra for mandys, but thats about it)