Thief Post 60, unanswered questions.

[melfie]

Heyo! Please bare with me and don't flame! (>.<) I ask this because I feel that these questions have probably been addressed a million times BUT for some reason I cannot find them! Please help me, thief post 60 has REALLY sucked for me.
THF63/NIN31
I'll start with gear:

Darksteel Kukri +1
Lust Dagger
Emp Pin
Spike Necklace
Spike Earring x2
Crossbow +1
Fluorite Rings x2
Amemet Mantle
Rogue's Culotte
Bounding Boots
TP Gain: Rap Harness, Life Belt, Battle Gloves
SATA/SATAWS: Black Cotehardie, Rogue's Armlets, Swordbelt +1(+12attack)

Ok, so basically my damage has gone down the drain ever since people refuse to first voke! (>.<) This sucks because I loved seeing a ton of damage against the mob. Now, I do maybe a 300-400 damage TA DE on the tank so when a war/nin rampages the hate turns and I'm basically useless because my damage isn't even outdoing a corsair's Slug Shot. Should I continue to force my parties to first voke? I know that for burn parties later on I will use SA DE should I be doing that now? Is there something wrong with my gear? Please help me!

-TaruTaru Chief, Melfie.

[Lmnop]

stastically speaking (since I cannot speak from experience), your overall damage will be higher by dividing your SA and TA. If your tank's good enough, you should consider doing SA DE, and soloing TA just for some extra DoT. In most situations though, you'll prolly wanna do what you've been doing. Voke buddy and a full SATA DE is nice if you have a party willing to work together, but it's probably not worth the effort. If you have a reliable Skillchain opener, then it becomes more useful to the party. If you have an MB or 3 in the party, then it becomes even better.

Equip swap macros are your friend.

[Mazon]

Well. I'm still only a level 60 Thief, but I'll help with what I can. I know I'll get some criticism on my gears, but whatever. This is the gear I roll out in. More of a comparison I guess. I'll try to come back in and make some edit suggestions when I can .... work permitting >.>

TP
Darksteel Kukri +1 (Will become Cermet Kukri+1 @ 63)
Chicken Knife (Undecided)
Walkure Mask
Spike Earring x2
Chivalrous Chain
Scorpion Harness (Alternates with Jaridah Peti)
Jaguar Mantle (Amemet Mantle at 61)
Woodsman Ring x2 (Can use Verenar + Assailant's Rings or ... Str+ rings)
Potent Belt
Custom M Gloves (Hume RSE) - Can sub Wonder Mitts (Taru RSE) for 3Str or Battle Gloves for 3 Acc
Rogue's Culotte (My choice to use AF Pants - can sub Republic/Bastokan Subligar or Tiger/Feral Trousers)
Leaping Boots (Can't really find anything to take it's place ... yet)
Heavy Crossbow+1
Acid/Venom/Blind/Sleep/Bloody Bolts - I always carry a stack of quivers of each

I set out to work in Accuracy, Str and Atk where permitted. Have never had a problem landing my hits, or landing for low dmg.

TA Set, SA Set and Ranged Set macro in the following gear leaving the untouched slots to fill in Acc/Att/Str

TA
Emperor Hairpin
Black Cotehardie
Drone Earring x2
Tiger Ring x2
Nomad Mantle
Royal Knight's Belt

SA
Emperor Hairpin
Spike Necklace
Black Cotehardie
Noct Brais +1
Deft Ring x2
Royal Knight's Belt

Ranged
Emperor Hairpin
Jagd Gorget (Don't have ... and haven't really needed)
Jaridah Peti
Jaridah Salvars
Scorpion Ring +1 x2
Drone Earring x2
Leaping Boots

You can make more use of your abilities by splitting TA and SA. Don't put off using either, just because you don't have enough TP to WS.

TA, SA and DE at your lvl are your tools for damage. If your timers permit you to join TA/SA with DE do so, but don't hold on to TP if they are not.

Charge TA on the pull, so that you are ready to TA on your tank when the mob hits camp. Bust out a SA on the mob, then if you timed the pull TA should be ready to go again on your tank.

Try to keep your SA and TA timers roughly 30 seconds apart.

Meat of Sushi, your call. Depend on where your lacking most.

[Armando]

If your tank's good enough, you should consider doing SA DE, and soloing TA just for some extra DoT. Actually, the difference between SA DE and TA DE are so small that he'd be better off doing TA DE + SA Hit in almost every situation, since the extra hate is useful.

[Theyaden]

Actually, the difference between SA DE and TA DE are so small that he'd be better off doing TA DE + SA Hit in almost every situation, since the extra hate is useful.

I've only gone to 46 thf so if anyone with experience with Sata has input please drop advice on how it's worked for you, I've found splitting the 2 appart has caused me to lose efficiency rather than gain it so I'ld agree with Armando on this one.

The last time I tried seperating the SA and TA I got and I quot "What was that" due to not having the extra multiplier and the TA target moving at the last moment. The #'s come to be roughly the same if everyone is cooperating, except the SA you keep the hate while the SA+TA all of it added to the tank and it's easier for a pt member to remember to hold still for one sata at the start then it is to try to get them to stay for a seperate SA and TA

[Mazon]

Splitting SA and TA pre-60 is a major No-no. The only reason you split SA and TA is because you are 60+ Thief. At 60 you gain the Assassin Job Trait.

Assassin: When Trick Attack is used the next attack made by user is guaranteed to be a critical and cannot miss as long the requirements for Trick Attack are met.

IE: There is a party member between you and mob (Direction mob is facing is inconsequential)

Does no good to split them pre-60.

[Wise Donkey]

Yes, Mazon has it right. Without the Assassin Job Trait TA will just give you a regular hit when used by itself. You never split SATA pre-60.

[711rocks]

I made a thread like this when I got to your level as well, check if anything people said can help you out:
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/thief/57544-my-de-sucks.html

[melfie]

This has been somewhat helpful but to be honest I play it that way and my damage is really... well sad. It's almost like not worth having me in a party anymore because my TA DE just... is uneventful.

[Lmnop]

I'm at work and thus, missing all my beautiful FF bookmarks so expect some inaccuracy here:

I was under the impression that Dancing Edge had a pretty nice DEX modifier on it. Something like 30% or so. While those "stat mods" typically aren't useful, it means more when you're already stacking on DEX for Sneak Attack. When you do TA DE, the only purpose Dex has is that silly mod, while TA is giving the first hit a super crit - based off of AGI, naturally.

If I were THF (which I quit because I was too obsessive), I'd prolly attempt to put all my eggs in one basket. I'd carry a +acc/str set for TPing, a +DEX set for DE, and a +AGI for TA. And because of that, I wouldn't know which set to use for TA DE. My brain would probably explode.

[Mazon]

To me, it doesn't really look like there is anything in your gear that would cause your TADE's to be in the lower dmg range.

Perhaps you can give us a little more information as to what type of mobs you are fighting, food you are eating.

And you are correct Lmnop. DE has a 30% Dex modifier as well as a 40% CHR modifier, and would produce better numbers when used as SADE, but not in the current situation where Melfie's tank is having problems keeping hate. Where in which TADE would be the way for him to go.

[Wise Donkey]

IIRC doesn't Accuracy have a pretty significant effect on DE because it is a multi-hit WS?

[Mazon]

Accuracy plays a big part yes. DE is a 5 hit weaponskill with dmg increasing as more hits can land. Hence the accuracy gear/food.

[Lmnop]

multi-hit WS with "accuracy varies with TP" I believe. So you're looking at "nothing special" @100% tp, which most THFs are when they WS.

[melfie]

I use Squid Sushi and I have been killing crawlers and crabs lately in Mount Zhaylom or whatever. It wasnt even particularly amazing against Colibri which I have a damage modifier against!?

[711rocks]

What kind of tp returns are you getting?