Healing Skill Idea

[Saren]

I have been thinking about the whole whm, healing skill debate recently and I had an idea that I thought I would put up for comments.

What if having healing skill over the cap required to reach the soft cap on the cure you are doing gave you a chance of using less mp for the spell (like conserve mp, I think this might be fairer/work better) or perhaps a straight mp reduction on every cure you cast (it would have to be a small percentage not to be overpowered of course). Cure 5 would either be unaffected or have some hidden value where the effect started kicking in. Your characters mnd value could be converted to an equivalent +healing skill value that would contribute to the effect. I am not sure how it would work with conserve mp, possibly stackable effect, possibly not.


It would make healing skill mean something, give added utility to +mnd for whm which given we don’t enfeeble at higher levels could be cool and would give whm an efficiency boost which would be nice.

[Necropolis]

I like that idea a lot, though curious if it would be more random like Conserve MP, only activating once in a while.

Perhaps an alternative idea, or additionally, a reduced enmity on some spells (Cure 4 and Curagas). While I like having all the spells I have never had the need for curaga 3-4, and the few instances I have used it only ended up in certain death for me :P

But I like the original idea a lot. Would give whm a chance at some higher level pt invites that tend to roam, not giving me much chance to sit.

[Haggai]

Perhaps an alternative idea, or additionally, a reduced enmity on some spells (Cure 4 and Curagas). While I like having all the spells I have never had the need for curaga 3-4, and the few instances I have used it only ended up in certain death for me :P
Curaga 3-4 is best used when you've just finished a hard fight (like after links) and you have many people that are low on health. This situation doesn't happen often, so the spells have little use. They cure way too much HP to use in the middle of a fight.

Honestly, the only place I've ever seen Curaga 3 used is in a skillup party where nobody is designated tank. People get lax when they are fighting easier mobs for skillups and have more people. The mob ends up hitting everyone

[Necropolis]

Curaga 3-4 is best used when you've just finished a hard fight (like after links) and you have many people that are low on health. This situation doesn't happen often, so the spells have little use. They cure way too much HP to use in the middle of a fight.

Honestly, the only place I've ever seen Curaga 3 used is in a skillup party where nobody is designated tank. People get lax when they are fighting easier mobs for skillups and have more people. The mob ends up hitting everyone

Yea, but I do so love using all my spells. Get to using it in dynamis quite a bit after a wipe and weakness all wears, thats the only time I really need to cure 6 people 700+ hp <.<

[IfritnoItazura]

I'd love to see higher healing skill help lower spell interruption rate (more?). Short of that, instead of some sort of hidden Conserve MP, how about adding chance to cure for extra HP (sans enmity penalty?) when target's HP is low?

Warrior has "Double Attack"--give White Mage "Double Cure"? With proc rate depending on Healing Magic skill and the level of cure used?

[Saren]

I'd love to see higher healing skill help lower spell interruption rate (more?). Short of that, instead of some sort of hidden Conserve MP, how about adding chance to cure for extra HP (sans enmity penalty?) when target's HP is low?

Warrior has "Double Attack"--give White Mage "Double Cure"? With proc rate depending on Healing Magic skill and the level of cure used?


Not that I expect any of this to be implimented, more as a 'wouldn't it be cool'. Sorry Ifrit, not trying to shoot you down on this or anything.

The reason I suggested the conserve mp/mp reduction idea is that it makes healing skill worth more first and foremost and secondly I think doing it that way would mean it kicked in quite a lot. Sure Whm gets the most benefit from it, but thats because we have the highest rating for healing skill not because it's a job specific change. Giving a "Double Cure" to whm only makes our healing skill worth something, not all job classes.

As for the extra HP when targests hp is low, how low really and how much use would you actually get out of that? So far, for me at least, people in parties only hit red if something has gone really wrong and we need to run or mapybe once/twice a long party for a fluke big hit. Does that change at higher levels? Spell interruption rate reduction would be cool but same thing really, how useful would it actually be, outside of soloing of course?

[IfritnoItazura]

I don't feel that WHM is broken, but it does seem to be in a bit of a slump. (I could hear a distant grumbling when I partied on RDM/WHM.... >_>; )

So, I tossed out some fun proposals which I feel wouldn't overlap other job's traits (like conserve MP), without adding too much to WHM to unbalance things.

WHM should be the "safest" healer (it is already the second most efficient, next to the DRG/mage combo)--the activate extra healing on low HP idea is to give tanks with WHM in party that much more confidence that when things go south, the WHM will save the day. ^_-

There are people who would say Healing Magic is broken... It is useless, but it doesn't seem to imped anything, so I'm wouldn't call that broken, either. To each his own, I guess.

p.s. The SIR down idea? That would be a present for my PLD, thank you. <_<;

[Olorin401]

I could go for lowered emnity on cures and some kind of Conserve MP trait. That would help me a LOT since I do most of my endgame runs as WHM/SMN.

Even Auto-Refresh would be nice.

[Saren]

p.s. The SIR down idea? That would be a present for my PLD, thank you. <_<;

:P

I don't think whm is broken either and I am not suggesting something that would just benefit whm but I do think that it would be nice if healing skill did more than get you to the soft cap. Enfeebling magic skill and Elemental magic skill are vital to keep capped for a lot of different spells for rdm and blm. Capping healing skill on whm is nice but really not required in certain level ranges which given it's our main job skill is a bit :huh:

[Nakti]

I like all the ideas presented here.

I don't think of WHM as "broken" either, but it does feel like I'm useless when I run out of MP. Unless I'm packing juices or lucky enough to have a refresher, I'm just resting-aggro-bait!

If SE won't give us Auto-Refresh, they could at least give us Pray (0 MP for small curaga). ><

[Olorin401]

How about TP for cures, leading to WHM-only weapon skills to restore MP?

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

I agree, I like all the ideas presented. I definitely like the idea about Pray. Monk's got to get the JA called Boost. That was a JA in FF5.

Why not Pray? I think it's an excellent idea. It would have a % to activate and cost 0mp for a small curaga.

However, on a side note. I think WHM should be able to use Archery and get the AIM skill too. What's so bad about a WHM doing melee? (Probably get into that mage meleeing debate again lol.)

[Malacite]

Personally, I'd rather just SE remove the stupid caps from cures and allow higher level WHM's to use lower-tiered cures to greater effect from having more skill.


The same should really, really apply to elemental nukes for BLM RDM and DRK too >_>

[Akashimo]

Workings of whm is a bit effy to me. Add or change one thing and we'd get some callings of "nerf". True, I would love a WHM version of chivarly or at least a similar working that restores HP equal to double the current TP and half the healing magic skill. With a trait that occassionaly ignores halfing the skill. But for that to really be effective, whm would need at least an A rating in club skill and more of a dd/healer gear around. (Not that many options without hurting one of the other stats, its always dd stuff or whm stuff, never really a good balance between the two open to whm.) Also more options to clubs to dd with, and some sort of subtle blow trait on them to reduce the mobs own tp gain from a dd whm that isn't /mnk or /nin.
Another thought could be a whm only trait so lvl 38+ that "hastes" the tick rate of Regen spells (as oppose to enhances regen effect gear/merits.)

[Icemage]

- Healing skill already affects spell interruption when casting Healing Magics (including all cures and status removal, as well as Raise spells).

- Healing skill has a minor effect on cure potency up to and slightly beyond the soft caps of each spell, with the exception of Cure V, where it never seems to hit a soft cap.

- WHMs have TONs of -enmity gear available. Giving more is totally overkill.

- Tick rate is set by the game engine. I seriously doubt you could increase the tick rate any further without breaking a whole bunch of other effects like DoT spells.

- Extra cure potency might be cool based on Healing skill. The soft caps on cure spells would need to be changed, though.

---

Realistically, I think what WHMs really honestly need is a way to recover their own MP. Stealing the prayer idea for a moment, maybe an ability like Samurai's Hasso where activating Prayer causes you to bleed 3HP/tick in return for 2MP while active (but you can't rest without Stoneskin up since you're taking damage). Would also make Medicine Ring and Auto-Regen more useful at the same time.


Icemage

[IfritnoItazura]

- Healing skill already affects spell interruption when casting Healing Magics (including all cures and status removal, as well as Raise spells).

Umm... :huh: You all but stated healing magic skill has negligible effect on spell interruption rate facing EM and above, didn't you?

Not so you'd notice, no.

The spell interruption resistance of higher magic skills doesn't seem to help at all when you're hit by enemies that are near or above your level. Even with max Healing Magic on WHM with a bunch of +Healing Magic gear, I still cannot reasonably expect to complete a Cure III if an attack hits me mid-cast.


Realistically, I think what WHMs really honestly need is a way to recover their own MP. Stealing the prayer idea for a moment, maybe an ability like Samurai's Hasso where activating Prayer causes you to bleed 3HP/tick in return for 2MP while active (but you can't rest without Stoneskin up since you're taking damage).

Bah. More self MP recovery all the mage jobs get, the less meaningful Convert, Refresh, Ballad, Evoker's Roll and Auto-Refresh become. Looks like the slippery slope to homogenization to me. :P

And, if you're going to bleed yourself for spiritual power, might as well call it "Flagellation" or something. >_>;

[Akashimo]

- WHMs have TONs of -enmity gear available. Giving more is totally overkill.
- Tick rate is set by the game engine. I seriously doubt you could increase the tick rate any further without breaking a whole bunch of other effects like DoT spells.
Realistically, I think what WHMs really honestly need is a way to recover their own MP. Stealing the prayer idea for a moment, maybe an ability like Samurai's Hasso where activating Prayer causes you to bleed 3HP/tick in return for 2MP while active (but you can't rest without Stoneskin up since you're taking damage). Would also make Medicine Ring and Auto-Regen more useful at the same time.
Icemage
If the -enmity gear was to my post, i didn't imply in more of it, just stating more of a dd variety for whm to get, for fun or for serious, seeing how little of it is around.
Hmmm, well what about the regen effect idea just adds a benefitual status buff that changes randomly for each casting?
And I gotta like the idea making whm bleed after prayer, does seem practical.

[Lmnop]

Stigmata, the JA, eh?

Ifrit, in your initial post about SIR, you inserted some doubt that it actually does anything. Icemage wanted to clarify that and state that it truely does. Of course, that doesn't address your desire to see that rate increased.

If you want a true "Prayer" ff10 style... something like a 1-3 minute recast JA to curaga 1 everyone. Prolly half powered, actually. The idea of Prayer in FFX/X-2 was that if you could afford to fight with one less person, you could spend all that person's time on prayer. Basically, what's most efficient is also the most time-consuming. We have this already, it's called Paeon.

I still don't quite understand why WHMs are weak relative to rdm main heals... and no, I don't need an explanation of the situation. Just... whms are sooooo much more efficient at keeping people alive it's rediculous. Higher tier Regens alone save over 20 mp/minute (i.e. the amount a Rdm would gain in said minute). I guess it boils down to Convert. And Devotion doesn't compare to that.

----------------------------

I'm sorry. Let's get back to the topic. What about an idea similar to the add'l cure power idea: basically, every Cure spell would have 2 effects. The first is an amount cured as normal. The second is a Healing Magic check against... some factor, somehow. If the check succeeds, a small amount of extra HP is cured. This is basically like the "Resists on Cures" idea mentioned in "that other thread" except that a resist only hurts efficiency - you don't run the risk of Cure V'ing someone for 62 damage when they fully resist the cure @12 HP.