HornetNeedle - Wespes solo?

[hongman]

I currently have an unhealthy obsession with Hornetneedle and Im itching to get it :) I have plenty of offers on people to murder the NM, however none to help farm spawn item.

I know soloing Wespes at 60 RDM/BLM or /NIN isnt ideal, but is it possible?

A few question/points:

At 60, Wespes at their highest lvl should con DC to me.

- Does Final Sting ignore shadows or would shadows mitigate the damage?
- Do these Wespes hit as fast at the NM?
- Is the camp suitable for me to be able to pull to a safe spot, without links?
- I can borrow Emp hairpin from my buddy, im guessing this piece would be fairly useful?
- What weapons are Wespe type mobs weak to? i.e blunt/piercing/slashing
- Will they spam Pollen?
- Is there a zone line close by?
- Food? Sword and dagger skill @ 130s

The way i had it in my head was like this:

Equip dual dagger or sword, AF (highest def gear i got), with STR ring and Fencers ring, EVA from head and ears

Buff up with Ice Spikes, ProcIII, Stoneskin, Phalanx, Haste, etc
Pull with Bind, then slow, DoT, Para, etc
Melee melee melee with enblizz


I know this is gonna be hard and yes i know it is a very rare drop. However I DO want to try this, with the help and advice of experienced players, particularly melee rdms.

Please feel free to tear this apart as long as it is constuctive :) No one-liners "you're wasting you're time" comments please, after I have established the best way to take these on (if possible) ill decide for myself if it is worth my playing time.

Thanks!

[Srxjo]

i would love to give advice on soloing him at 60, but i'm 75 and they read too weak, why not skill up your weapons from what you say they sound far from cap, meaning you base ACC for the weapon is low and you ate missing a weapon skill or two (cant remember what lvl Spirits Within), but if you do try this i wish you the best of luck

Why not ask a good friend to help

-Srxjo

[Mhurron]

missing a weapon skill or two (cant remember what lvl Spirits Within)
Skill 175, RDM can get it around lvl 58~59.

I can't offer any other useful information, I skipped trying for that dagger and just waited a few more levels and got Garuda's dagger instead.

[hongman]

I have been gettng into skillup parties and as such my combat skills are getting better... my cap is like 197 i think, so yes very far from cap.

I do wish to add, im not trying to solo the NM, only the wespes. I am curently unable to find any willing volunteers to help out >.>

It makes sense to me even more now that I need to concentrate on melee skills (like combat skills) to be a good meleer... >< Im just really impatient XD

[Srxjo]

if you were on pheonix, i would helped you on the weekend but i click on your character information and see your on bahamut

[Raydeus]

I was soloing wespes (to get the larvae) before I even got close to Sleep II, so yeah, you can solo wespes easily. :P

[hongman]

Thanks Srx, as always the ones that want to help are on other servers :p tho soon....u might be able to just "hop" across!

Raydeus: Was you doing this as RDM? Can you remember what weapons etc you were usng? Details Details!!

Please, if you can, relive the moment and lay it out for me!!!!!

[Raydeus]

When they were VT-IT to me I just Sleep/Nuked them, when they became T I started meleeing them with Enblizzard, Ice Spikes and all the usual stuff.

I used Corrosive Baselard at the time, and my armor was pretty standard (Brigandine, Magic Cuisses and stuff like that), but since you already have AF all you need is to stack on +STR and +Att to make things go faster.

You can sub WAR to make things even easier, you get defense bonus and double attack which is great with a dagger, and at that lvl final sting wont do much against you really, /THF would be preferred for drop rates though.

[Hearshot]

I solo'd my pop item as 60nin back in the day without trouble. I can imagine an RDM could do this as well.

[hongman]

Wow, lots of encouraging feedback :)

What exacty is the sleep/nuke thing?

I can forsee (esp on VT-IT):

Player casts Sleep
*mob is asleep*
Player casts nuke
Player casts Sleep
*mob resists sleep*

Ahhhhh!

Any good camps round there to pull to? Tips, mobs to watch out for, etc? Iv never even zoned into Temple of Ugg before....

[Mhurron]

Wow, lots of encouraging feedback :)
What exacty is the sleep/nuke thing?
I can forsee (esp on VT-IT):
Player casts Sleep
*mob is asleep*
Player casts nuke
Player casts Sleep
*mob resists sleep*

You might want to work at getting good at that process. Going OT again, I know.

But ya, thats pretty much what sleep nuke is. Just add some buffs and non-damaging enfeebles in there as well.

[Hearshot]

Any good camps round there to pull to? Tips, mobs to watch out for, etc? Iv never even zoned into Temple of Ugg before....

Right near the entrance, there are 3 wespe pops. Nothing but the wespes aggro right there and you can zone if you have to. Further in, past the tonberries and about the Hornetneedle NM area, there are 2 or 3 more wespes, but i wouldn't advise soloing a lower job there. I only went there to pull those after i farmed the entrance as a 75job.

For my thf, it dropped in 8-10 kills.

[hongman]

I thought though that the more sleep is cast, the more resistant the mob gets?

I would appreciate a POS of where these things are as well, so i can check the zone out?

Thanks

PS this should prove good for soloing practice:)

EDIT: nvm about zone :)
EDIT #2: My ls were all like its a 1/10000000000000000 drop so {no thanks} - guess it really does depend on luck!

[hongman]

which entrance are you referring to?

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Image:TempleofUggalepih1.png

[Hearshot]

Entrance 1; the wespes are there at J-7

[hongman]

It'll be tomorrow before i get to try now :(

Ill let you all know how it goes XD

[Murphie]

You should be fine. I fought them as RDM/BLM with just a RDM's regular arsenal of buffs and enfeebles and did just fine. I generally just meleed them down instead of trying to sleep/nuke. But that might have been faster (I was after skillups).

If you have an NPC, it can be a nice place for them to get some exp while helping make the fights a bit easier too.

I was there any time I had some spare time for weeks. I can't tell you how many Wespes I ended up killing. So good luck.

[Mhurron]

I was there any time I had some spare time for weeks. I can't tell you how many Wespes I ended up killing. So good luck.
That's why I just did Garuda. Well, that and doing a Prime Avatar was out of the ordinary for me at the time, killing random mobs wasn't so it was fun.

[Murphie]

I killed Garuda the other day. I haven't gone back to the quest NPC either. Hmmm. Of course, I already have a hornetneedle now.

But yeah. I seriously thought I was never going to get a Bee Larvae.

[Sabaron]

I did this a bit later in RDM life than you, but I will say this. /NIN is the wrong combination for this. Bees are either MNK mobs or have double or triple attack with a high proc rate--I'm not sure of which. The effect is that your shadows are pretty lackluster. Since I don't want to steer you wrong, do the following:

1. Determine the meme single hit damage that a bee causes you.
2. Subtract your Phalanx reduction.
3. Divide your Stoneskin pool by that.
4. The goal is to have Stoneskin recast (30 sec) up before/when the bee drops it via DoT.
5. Sub /BLU or /WAR and use Cocoon or Defender--this way you can use the higher-tier Weaponskills and speed up kills.

Bees hit fast and weak, so Phalanx is their ultimate enemy whereas Utsusemi is pretty much a waste of Shihei before Ni--your 6 shadows will last all of 10-15 seconds tops, but of course, depending on their actual duration and the amount of damage absorbed by your shield and boosted defense from your other sub, it might still be better to be /NIN (or just go /NIN and use a shield).

I wouldn't engage DFA at 60... Get a friend. Larvae are a pain to collect. Good luck on your needle.

Oh btw, just recently while farming Flickering Lanterns for the new Thief's Knife, I was struck dumb by a Temple Bee who decided to pop me with a Final Sting worth an unheard of 847 damage. I had Stoneskin up, but it must've been just under 50 left on it because with me keeping my HP in the yellow for my ring, he one-shotted me through SS even though on most shots a bee can't even get through my Phalanx (hit for 0 even if SS is down). In summary, watch out for Final Sting...

[Ghostraven]

skillup before you try this..

[Murphie]

I've been hit for Final Stings even higher than that, Sabaron. NOT FUN.

[tdh]

I would also suggest going and doing some Skill Ups before you attempt this solo. It's one thing to slowly whittle away at your enemy, it's another thing to slow try and blow them over from the wind of your missed swings. lol

When I was camping my coffer for my AF Pants I believe, I decided to try my hand at some soloing. I was past the 3rd Banishing gate in GC and knew that three Coffers pop'd back there. So I buffed up, walked around the corner, and pulled a Skeleton.

Swinging a Sword, making sure I had Blink, Stoneskin, Phalanx, En-spells, Ice Spikes, Haste and Refresh took a long time to kill the mob but I gained amazing Enhancing Magic Skill Ups, and Sword Skill Ups rained from above. So you're to the point where you can do your own Skill Ups with out having to jump into a group that's expecting you to keep everybody Hasted and healed.

By doing the solo Skill Ups is how I cap'd my Enhancing magic by Lv.70. Each level after that I could cap the skill before I leveled. But those last few levels of Lv.75 took quite a while. Possibly due to having stopped leveling so furiously.

[hongman]

Thanks people.

Murphie, I am prolly partial to some skillups too. Try to get em in where I can!

I am defiantely NOT planning to taking on DFA solo - I have more than enough people lining up to murder him for me, just none that wanna help farming!

And Final Sting was a concern...thats why I was asking if Utsu would mitigate the damage - but it certainly seems I would have enough trouble keeping shadows up with Ichi anyways so the benefits of /BLM outweigh /NIN. My WAR is underlvled and /BLU isnt even an option as its not unlocked!

Ill have a test run tonight to see how it goes. I know it wont be the fastest farm in the world but as long as I can do it consistently, Im golden. I REALLY want my hornetneedle!!!

[hongman]

After all this talk about Garuda's Dagger...

How does the 2 compare?

I definately want both, just wondered if the stats (comparison) on G Dagger and low delay on HN...how it works out?

Does G Dagger give a bonus on Wind type elemental WS's?

[Murphie]

Hornetneedle
Rare/Exclusive
(Dagger) All Races
DMG: 16 Delay: 150 DEX +1 AGI +1
Lv. 48 RDM / THF / BRD / RNG / NIN

Damage Per Second: 6.4
TP Per Hit: 4.8%

Garuda's Dagger
Rare/Exclusive
(Daggers) All Races
DMG: 19 Delay: 183 AGI +3 Attack +7
Additional Effect: Silence
Lv. 65 WAR / BLM / RDM / THF / PLD / DRK /
BST / BRD / RNG / SAM / NIN / DRG / SMN

Damage Per Second: 6.23
TP Per Hit: 5.1%

Notes: On Windsday, the additional effect activates frequently (every 1-3 hits).

So, Hornetneedle has higher DPS, but returns less TP per hit. I'm sure that probably evens out, but don't feel like doing the math. It doesn't have an added silence effect, however, so Garuda's Dagger could be pretty nifty against casting mobs if nothing else.

[tdh]

I've always wondered if Atk+ was factored into DPS. The Atk+7 should help the Garuda's out do the Horny. Either way the lowered DLY on the Horny is what wins it out.

My problem with it is for WS damage. Takes Sneak Attack and a Too Weak mob to break 400 on Evisceration. The base DMG is just too low to really put the Dagger to use. I've also seen THF's offhand the Horny and hit for 0dmg with the thing. So it's great for skill ups due to how fast it is, but for all out damage there better options.

Having said that, don't get me wrong because I love my Hornetneedle. Nothing like Haste, Double March and a Horny for Hundred Daggers! ^^b

[Sabaron]

Hornetneedle
Rare/Exclusive
(Dagger) All Races
DMG: 16 Delay: 150 DEX +1 AGI +1
Lv. 48 RDM / THF / BRD / RNG / NIN

Damage Per Second: 6.4
TP Per Hit: 4.8%

Garuda's Dagger
Rare/Exclusive
(Daggers) All Races
DMG: 19 Delay: 183 AGI +3 Attack +7
Additional Effect: Silence
Lv. 65 WAR / BLM / RDM / THF / PLD / DRK /
BST / BRD / RNG / SAM / NIN / DRG / SMN

Damage Per Second: 6.23
TP Per Hit: 5.1%

Notes: On Windsday, the additional effect activates frequently (every 1-3 hits).

So, Hornetneedle has higher DPS, but returns less TP per hit. I'm sure that probably evens out, but don't feel like doing the math. It doesn't have an added silence effect, however, so Garuda's Dagger could be pretty nifty against casting mobs if nothing else.

As I discussed previously, this depends if you're using an Enspell. If you are a Red Mage you should be using an Enspell when you're fighting unless you need the additional effect that the weapon carries itself (e.g. Excalibur, Guispiere, Sleep Dagger). I doubt you'd actually choose the Silence effect off of Garuda's dagger over an Enspell's damage output and casting an Enspell on Garuda's Dagger will prevent the Additional Effect from processing. The DPS Change depends on how much enspell you currently have. Assuming you can do at least 10 damage with an Enspell on your weapon the DPS for both weapons rises.

Hornetneedle: 26/150*60 = 10.40 [previously 6.4]
Garuda's Dagger: 29/183*60 = 9.51 [previously 6.23]

So now, what was a 0.07 differential is now 0.89 differential which means over a 1 minute battle, Hornetneedle with an Enspell doing just 10 points of damage will do 53 more damage over a 1-minute fight than Garuda's. The +7 attack is Ok--I won't run it through my calculator, because I'm not sure if it's right anymore (it gives me weird answers somethimes), but it's not going to beat an Enspell (it functionally increases the damage code of the weapon depending on the level difference between you and the mob-- +Attack is less effective versus high-level mobs than it is agains mid and lower level ones).

[hongman]

Thanks all

Slightly OT, but I have noticed a lot fo the times, wearing Fencer's Ring does not add to the enspell damage - what gives??

[tdh]

Mobs can resist En-spell damage as well. I've seen Enblizzard do 21dmg to Crabs with the Buzzard Tuck, then it uses it's Shell move and the damage is halved. So that could be what's happening.

[Sabaron]

Thanks all

Slightly OT, but I have noticed a lot fo the times, wearing Fencer's Ring does not add to the enspell damage - what gives??

Firstly, it could be a resist. Secondly, it could be that you don't have yellow hp or that you may have 100% TP or more. When I was lower level, my enspell damage was extremely consistent unless the mob was resistant. At higher levels, your enspell damage will have a noticeable variance.

The conditions that must be present for Fencer's Ring to activate:

1. HP < 75% [Yellow HP number]
2. TP < 100%

The second condition is the one most likely to cause a proc failure on the ring. I always use /blockaid when I've got my ring on to prevent outside healers from going ZOMG DAMAGE!!!!1!! CURE CURE CURE!

[hongman]

You know what I failed to even realise it was a latent effect. :/

So, last night I spent (after the tediously long update) about 4 hours in the Temple, killing bees. No drop.

Solo-wise, each and every fight was a long damn fight!!! I was hitting for between 37-60, critting on 100ish, and en-spell doing 12-17 per hit. Also with Phalanx up it wasnt too much of a problem recasting SS mid fight. I will say however:

Some fights were so long, others buff like Ice Spike, En-Blizz, etc would wear before fight was over!

Pollen is annoying. Especially when Iv whittle it down to a few % HP and then it Pollens for 1k HP.

Each and every Wespse Final Sting'ed me. THe first was the worst - full (1000HP) HP, and partial SS with Phalanx - took me to 230HP. That was scary, the others wasnt so bad.

I got plenty of skillups though, from 130 something to 170 now XD I ate sushi to compensate for ACC as well. Towards then end of the night a kind JP 75RDM helped out, made killing a lot faster, but still no drop. Although he eneded every fight with a Savage Blade WS and Iv noticed you get less drops when ending in WS...or is that another myth...

EDIT: Yes, Ill be back tonight to get my drop. I am determined. I think.

[Murphie]

Yeah, my fights were really long like that too. I often had to recast all of my buffs before the fight was over.

[Sabaron]

Solo-wise, each and every fight was a long damn fight!!!

This is just how we work. In order to speed up the fight, you would have to use your nukes which depletes your mana quickly and forces you to recover it in some way. You should probably try to solo more things as your Red Mage career progresses both for profit and practice.

[hongman]

Agreed, Sabaron. I should.

I did nuke a few times when I had the mana, towards the end of a fight to kill it quickly, and not chance another damn 500-1000hp Pollen. But I tried to avoid it in case i needed for Cures/buffs.

Still, I logged there so as soon as I log in tonight, Im getting that damned drop!!!

[Murphie]

When I fought them I wanted the weapon skillups anyway, so longer fights were fine by me.

[Vyuru]

I don't know how powerfull your WS are, but when I solo'd Wespes as drg, towards the end of the fight I would save my WS for when the Wespe readied Final Sting, I could get my WS off first, possibly even a jump or two, and take off as much as 600-700 damage from the Wespes normally 800-1kish Final Sting. You might want to try something like that to reduce Final Sting damage.

[Sabaron]

Well, I didn't exactly recommend nuking--I've always found it more efficient to be conservative and use the bare essentials:

Protect IV/III/II/I
Phalanx
Stoneskin
Refresh
Enspell
Haste
Shock/Ice/Blaze Spikes [optional]

With ring on, I keep my hp teetering on yellow. Versus bees, however, you may want to not use the ring. If you are not subbing one of the following: WAR, DRK, BLU, PLD, you will not be getting nearly as good of weapon skill damage as you would be normally.

If you have a signal pearl and/or tactics pearl, you should grab your NPC too. Use your NPC whenever you have the chance to make them stronger and more useful and to advance their associated storylines.

[hongman]

I didnt have signet nor my NPC with me last night, comepletely forgot them.

So Im gonna run back to town and grab those 2, then...wish me luck.

[Srxjo]

good luck hong

[hongman]

Thank you.

And to all who are on Bahamut - while I am determined that as slow as it may be to solo, I will not in any circumstances say no to a hand, even ifs it passing through and helping to speed up 1 kill :p