Drain 2 & Dread Spikes

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

As Quoted from SE Playonline:

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/1533/detail.html (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/1533/detail.html)


In the upcoming version update, we plan to introduce two new dark knight spells, as well as implement changes to Signet that will improve party play for smaller groups. (Signet part not posted but link is provided.)

----------------------------------------------

New Dark Knight Spells

The following dark knight spells will be introduced in the upcoming version update.

- Drain II (Lv.62 Recast Time: 3 minutes Duration: 1 minute)
Steals an enemy's HP, potentially increasing maximum HP. Ineffective against undead.

HP drained that exceeds the amount necessary to fully heal the dark knight will temporarily boost maximum HP.
As well as healing the dark knight, this spell should prove useful in providing extra HP for abilities such as Souleater.

- Dread Spikes (Lv.71 Recast Time: 3 minutes Duration: 1 minute)
Covers you with magical darkness spikes. Steals HP from enemies that hit you. Ineffective against undead.

While Dread Spikes is in effect, the dark knight will drain an amount of HP from an enemy corresponding to the amount of damage inflicted by each of the enemy's attacks.
Dread Spikes will wear off after the dark knight has absorbed an amount of HP equal to a certain percentage of his maximum HP, regardless of the remaining duration.

*The effect of Dread Spikes will be adjusted during PvP.

The HP absorbed by the reactive effect of Dread Spikes will not generate enmity for the dark knight.
*The dark knight will still be KO'd if a single attack inflicts an amount of damage that exceeds his remaining HP.



You wanna know something wierd? A few days ago, I was sitting here thinking about leveling DRK to be able to have a sub on my RDM for HNM/Dyn, etc. and wondering why SE doesn't include spells like another drain or something so DRK's can work w/their souleater and make it more effective; something along the lines of Drain 2 or Drain 3.

Not that I will be able to use it, but I can't believe how psychic I am.......

[Icemage]

Wow. S-E shows some more love for Dark Knights! Great news! :)


Icemage

[KoukiRyu]

This is really awesome for DRK's...most of their spell-casting abilities has been simply confined to a few Absorb spells here or there, and the occasional Stun if someone else in the party can't do it. But now with this, you'll be seeing them actually do some casting more often, at least I'd hope. :o

And also, does Drain II mean that, if say, the DRK is at 984/1152 HP, and they Drain say... 300(seems a little high, but just for the sake of the example), that their new HP could possibly become 1284? It does mention increasing max HP.

[Olorin401]

Wow.. SE really wants me to play a melee job, don't they?

[Celeal]

Wow.. SE really wants me to play a melee job, don't they?
Definitely, I am going to level up DRK after the update :evil:
The Signet changes and the new spells are just too awesome for DRK.

[Zempten]

Dread Spikes is pretty interesting. I'm curious as to what it's recast/duration is.

While Dread Spikes is in effect, the dark knight will drain an amount of HP from an enemy corresponding to the amount of damage inflicted by each of the enemy's attacks.
Dread Spikes will wear off after the dark knight has absorbed an amount of HP equal to a certain percentage of his maximum HP, regardless of the remaining duration.

These statements sorta contradict each other. Since the spikes is going to basically heal the DMG the mob inflicts on a DRK . . . .when does the DRK actually start gaining HP from it? Maybe I'm just reading this wrong.

Also from the feel of things . . . . . something tells me DRK/SAM is going to become more popular and maybe the rising of DRK PTs b/c from the looks of it DRKs are going to be able to tank TP Burn type mobs with seigan, Drain 2, and these spikes. Although MP might be a problem . . .

[Zempten]

And also, does Drain II mean that, if say, the DRK is at 984/1152 HP, and they Drain say... 300(seems a little high, but just for the sake of the example), that their new HP could possibly become 1284? It does mention increasing max HP.

From the wording of SE, it seems like that's a high possibility. Since they also nudged at the fact that Drain II will help DRK's Souleater. So basically Drain 2, temporary max HP (I'm guess the same way as how MNK's Mantra works), Souleater, Souleater wears off and you return to your natural HP before the Drain 2. This is of course speculation on my part though.

[hongman]

I wonder if they'll also get a slightly increased MP pool to accomadate the new spells...

[Celeal]

I wonder if they'll also get a slightly increased MP pool to accomadate the new spells...

I am also wondering would DRK/RDM becomes acceptable option, after the signet changes - No TP loss while resting?

I think /RDM will help solo under Signet effect. /RDM increases the mp pool a bit. /RDM has Fast Cast, Magic Atk Bonus, Clear mind too.

Spells like Dispel, Regen, backup cure, a half assed verison of Phalanx (sp*), Blink, etc, may help in exp. party settings? In ToAU we have Sanction Refresh, non-ToAU we have Signet No TP loss for resting. The issue with TP vs MP should be resolved.

With Signet and the new DRK spells, I can think of a few tactics that DRK/RDM may go all out DD in exp. party without dying because of hate issue.

[Zempten]

Wonder if Signet effect will work in the TOAU zones though. I mean their effect and not the CP accumulation.

[hongman]

Doubt it.

[Slip]

Wonder if Signet effect will work in the TOAU zones though. I mean their effect and not the CP accumulation.
Nope. In the writeup on the official site they address that, it's only in the areas where signet normally works.

[Gwynn]

Interesting spells... I'll check out how effective they are ingame. Nice to see DRK get some love, though!

[Malacite]

Still no Scythe update though >:O

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

I am curious now to play DRK as my Galka and play around with these fascinating spells. I haven't even experienced Absorp-TP yet.

Or done SAM sub...... hasso...... o.o

[tdh]

As much as I'm excited about this, I still have to ask why.

Since the job adjustments so many things have been adjusted for DRKs. We've gotten so much S-E love it's crazy. We were kinda busted and under appreciated but we got new toys, we've been doing much better, and the other DRKs I've talked to and I are happy.

Absorb-TP
2 second Absorb Casts
Parade Gorget & Refresh Sanction
/SAM for Acc, Haste, & STR (I know, this was a SAM update, but this is helpful for 2handers everywhere.)
A few useful Category 2 Merits

All that love, and so many other jobs are feeling neglected. PUP's C rated H2H, no Merits for BLU, COR, PUP, BRD still has a C rated skill in Singing, Wind & String, and the list goes on. I'm grateful for the new spells, and as a DRK63, I can actually play with one of them, but just seems like this effort could have been put towards another job.

And I hope Drain II RAWKS! Drain seemingly ignores MAB, and the most I've ever Drained was 235HP from a MB on a DC mob in a Skill Up. I can Drain 200HP from time to time, but having to wait 60 seconds after a weak 50HP Drain can now be followed up by a more Powerful Drain II? Provided the /recast is up. I'm curious why no Aspir II though. Probably since there aren't enough mobs out there that have MP we can steal.

Thanks S-E, but why?

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

On the surface..... you don't have to sub THF anymore and now can sub WAR or SAM and use LR/SE and WS and be able to defend yourself better? It seems like spells to assist with your JA's. Sorry, I could be shortsighted.

[tdh]

I don't think this is so much going to save us from the hate we generate. Last party I had I went /WAR as the NIN's request. I died 5 times, only 1 of which I'll blame on myself. (Decided to Souleater Guillotine when I was 100EXP from leveling, and thought I could kill the mob. Well it's kinda hard to shed 1200dmg hate on top of all my other hate when the NIN's dropping 300dmg Blade: Jins.)

Now they reduced the casting time of the Absorb spells, and while Drain is basically Absorb-HP, it's casting time went unchanged. With Stun, and Weapon Bash, I couldn't get off a Drain to possibly save my hide or kill the mob. Nevermind the additional hate Stun & Weapon Bash generates. Now if Drain II has a really quick casting time, this might save us big time, then we can try and get off a Drain afterwards.

The other issue is Drain II can be used to boost your HP. I wonder how powerful it will really be in regard to restoring HP. Or will it just be something you use when your HP is high, and you want an extra 200HP for your Souleater.

Another thing to consider is Dark Magic is so fickle. One minute you'll get a 200HP Drain, the next minute a 30HP Drain. 7MP Aspir followed by an 83MP Aspir. Mobs seemingly weak to Dark Magic suddenly resist Absorb-AGI. So if I can pull 200HP from a Drain, and then 400 from a Drain II I'll be sit'n pretty after a Souleater WS, but I'm not holding my breath for that!

Even at Lv.71, I doubt Dread Spikes will be enough to keep us alive. If it's anything like Ice/Blaze/Shock Spikes, 18HP at max Drained isn't going to keep us alive with all the DEF we give up for Acc & Atk. 18HP Drained isn't going to be a stop gap when I'm taking 180dmg a pop.

[Lmnop]

naysay much, tdh?

PUP may have lots of issues. But damnit, they've been in the game a matter of months. DRK's been unloved for the better part of 3 years. The only time they ever had to shine was levels 66-71 when they were closing famous light SCs for big damage. But that was 5 levels of their life, and those days don't even exist anymore.

You know what else is funny? There was so much DRG hate in the community, that half the community was inviting them over emoDRKs to prove how much they don't hate DRGs. No, the spells are great.

The wording states, doesn't suggest, that Drain 2 will have the potential to raise max HP. It also states right there in the text that it has a 3 minute recast and a 1min duration. Regardless of casting time, it'll be great. The idea will be to use it, and fall back on Drain 1 while it's down. Not the other way around.

Dread Spikes also states in the text that it will absorb a certain percentage of the damage inflicted. So that right there should guarantee that it doesn't drain for like 10 damage. but even if it is -10%, it's enough to at least stem the tide. 10% is a Defending Ring, for crying out loud. To answer what Zempten was saying:

Let's say Dread Spikes can only heal so much... say 50% of your max HP. So if you have 1000 Max HP, you cast Dread Spikes for a chance to heal back 500 (which equates to avoiding 500 damage).

The spell has a 1 minute duration, so regardless of how much you get hit for, you're gonna lose it after 1 minute. BUT, let's say that you used this spell right before six orcs decided to use Hundred Fists on you. Every hit is for 100 damage, and you absorb 10 (if we assume 10% of damage as before). You get hit 50 times in 35 seconds (you have like 18 WHMs Cure bombing you, but since your damage is so leet, they can't pull hate). Even though you have 25 seconds remaining on Dread Spikes, you've been hit enough to prevent 500 damage. Thus, the spell ends prematurely.

It really isn't much different than Stoneskin, in the scheme of things.


------

Drks are getting a very indirect update to their Scythes: No reason to sub THF. I'm now to the point that I simply won't invite DRKs if they're seeking as /thf and don't have a comment suggesting otherwise. /Sam is the new. Adapt or quit. Not to say I don't like /thf for certain things. But like war/thf, it doesn't have a place in high paced parties. And /war is still in-effing-credible, just really need a good tank. e.e Which brings us back to these spells. If they're good enough, they may allow a drk to sub war. I'd kinda doubt it though.

But yes, if you're not subbing thf, you typically don't have much desire to use GS. So yeah, there's your Scythe love.

BRD don't need higher skills. You realize that if they had A rank skills, they'd have as high a chance to land 50% slow effect as a RDM would have to land their gimp 20-35% slow?

Remember DRKs, turn off Hasso/Seigan before using these spells. The last thing you need on a 3 min recast is +50% (or whatever) recast tacked on.

[tdh]

naysay much, tdh?
PUP may have lots of issues. But damnit, they've been in the game a matter of months. DRK's been unloved for the better part of 3 years. The only time they ever had to shine was levels 66-71 when they were closing famous light SCs for big damage. But that was 5 levels of their life, and those days don't even exist anymore.Not an issue of naysaying, merely another job could have used the adjustment more.

I've noticed the increase attention I've gained as DRK, and as much as I'm enjoying the new found attention/recognition, DRK has now received something new in the last 3 updates. Focus some of that attention on another job that at this point could use more attention then the Vampires.

The wording states, doesn't suggest, that Drain 2 will have the potential to raise max HP. It also states right there in the text that it has a 3 minute recast and a 1min duration. Regardless of casting time, it'll be great. The idea will be to use it, and fall back on Drain 1 while it's down. Not the other way around.That's exactly what it says.

- Drain II (Lv.62 Recast Time: 3 minutes Duration: 1 minute)
Steals an enemy's HP, potentially increasing maximum HP. Ineffective against undead.

HP drained that exceeds the amount necessary to fully heal the dark knight will temporarily boost maximum HP. As well as healing the dark knight, this spell should prove useful in providing extra HP for abilities such as Souleater.

So use Drain II when you're near max HP for some EXP HP, then Souleater Guillotine for more damage. However, depending on how powerful the spell is, this might be a waist. Say it Drains 400HP, it might be better served to use it after Souleater than before hand.

I wasn't saying that Drain II should be a fall back option, or doubting that it won't be pretty awesome. This however does not negate the way Drain seems to work now. Cap'd skill, Darksday, mob weak Vs. Dark Magic and when I need 200HP I get at 30HP Drain. Dark Magic just doesn't work like Elemental does where you can pretty much tell if you received a partial, 50%, or full resist. With Dark magic it's all over the board. So you just lost 700HP and Drain decides to punk you with 30HP. Do you wait for the WHM to wake up and "holy sheet, Cure V" and complain about Souleater, or do you hope Drain II grabs 400HP?

Of course we don't know how it's going to behave yet, so pretty much anything we state here is speculation. I just know it's going to suck to have a 3 min /recast and you only gain 50HP back.

Dread Spikes also states in the text that it will absorb a certain percentage of the damage inflicted. So that right there should guarantee that it doesn't drain for like 10 damage. but even if it is -10%, it's enough to at least stem the tide. 10% is a Defending Ring, for crying out loud. To answer what Zempten was saying:

Let's say Dread Spikes can only heal so much... say 50% of your max HP. So if you have 1000 Max HP, you cast Dread Spikes for a chance to heal back 500 (which equates to avoiding 500 damage).
The spell has a 1 minute duration, so regardless of how much you get hit for, you're gonna lose it after 1 minute. BUT, let's say that you used this spell right before six orcs decided to use Hundred Fists on you. Every hit is for 100 damage, and you absorb 10 (if we assume 10% of damage as before). You get hit 50 times in 35 seconds (you have like 18 WHMs Cure bombing you, but since your damage is so leet, they can't pull hate). Even though you have 25 seconds remaining on Dread Spikes, you've been hit enough to prevent 500 damage. Thus, the spell ends prematurely.

It really isn't much different than Stoneskin, in the scheme of things.Dread Spikes appear to be a lot like Stoneskin, but it's not going to allow us to tank like somebody in another thread suggested, and I don't think it's going to make us any more daring when it comes to our hate generation.

Drks are getting a very indirect update to their Scythes: No reason to sub THF. I'm now to the point that I simply won't invite DRKs if they're seeking as /thf and don't have a comment suggesting otherwise. /Sam is the new. Adapt or quit. Not to say I don't like /thf for certain things. But like war/thf, it doesn't have a place in high paced parties. And /war is still in-effing-credible, just really need a good tank. e.e Which brings us back to these spells. If they're good enough, they may allow a drk to sub war. I'd kinda doubt it though.I have access to all subjobs for my current level, and when I'm seeking I list /WAR, /THF, /SAM, and /NIN in my /seacom. But I've yet to see a DRK/SAM in an EXP party, and nobody's asked me do so either - I've only ever gone DRK/SAM for Assaults myself. Seems a little harsh that you won't invite a DRK who doesn't want to get his head pecked off, but if you're building a party and looking for something specific do what you feel is best for the group. Just can't say I agree with your "adapt or quit" view point about DRK/SAM. Does this apply to DRG/SAM as well?

BRD don't need higher skills. You realize that if they had A rank skills, they'd have as high a chance to land 50% slow effect as a RDM would have to land their gimp 20-35% slow?Which I'd have no issue with as long as they'd allow Hojo & Slow to stack. But having BRDs have Lullaby resisted is just retarded.

[Susurrus]

I wonder how long until we see people running around with 10,000 HP after Drain II spamming (also wondering if it sticks through zoning...)

[Armando]

There's no way to spam Drain II. Even at the 50% recast reduction cap, its recast will be longer than the HP boost effect lasts, and it's pretty obvious it'll be too high a level for RDMs to sub.

[tdh]

Well, after 3hrs plus of updating, and the update crapping out on me 3 times, I logged in to pick up Drain II and test it out a tad. (It's in the same place you buy Absorb-TP, but that didn't stop people from selling 1 for 100k already. 30k @ the vendor.)

Animation looks pretty sweet. As if you're casting three Drains at the same time. On Too Weak mobs I've managed to Drain back AT LEAST 235HP each time. With AF Helm (Dark Magic +5) and Dark Staff I managed a 311HP Drain.

Previously I've never done more than 250, and that was on an EP Crab on a Magic Burst. I suspect the Dark Earring and the Dark Torque are about to go up in price. Provided any of them ever get in stock at the AH! I've been looking for a Dark Torque for a few weeks now.

[Tisaragi]

Dread Spikes unless it gets heavy resist rates on VT-IT mobs I can see it keeping a drk alive after a souleater if it is placed correctly. While playing with the spikes fighting lesser colibri they drained back the same number I was getting hit for all but one time when it seemed to be about half the dmg I had taken. Also the duration was at least 33% but its prob more like 50-75% max hp(not sure wasn't really adding it up that close). Drain 2's cast time isn't any faster than Drain's and it seems to be harder for the mob to resist the spell to the point where you get 2hp back for you cast. On lesser colibri I was draining 300+ hp each cast. Also even if you could cast drain2 before the effect was lost it would work just like the abs spells and replace the old buff with the new one this includes the hp buff gained from items such as giants drink.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

Anyone finding yet how the new spells are helping stem the tide of hate for SE LR WS?

[Tyros]

I don't think it decreases the hate, but rather, the effect of the spikes creates 0 hate of it's own.

Anyways, I bought these and promptly set up killing Lesser Colibri in woodlands last night. Normally, I would go DRK/WHM and burn through almost all of my mp per fight, rest, repeat. I went through around 12 fights nonstop last night, alternating drain 2 and dread spikes each fight and getting on average around 44 exp a kill. Getting around 500 EXP in about 40 min solo was welcome, and I didn't have to use any of my whm spells. I think I will try again tonight /war for faster kills and a bit more defense.

Now, Dread Spikes has been tested to return full damage taken on most everything tested. Half returns have been reported on dark based and magic resistant monsters. Also, Dread Spikes seem capped at 1 minute duration OR 50% of your max HP returned. All in all, it seems to be a license to freely use Last Resort or Berserk while soloing since the spikes negate damage taken.

As for Drain II, I was averaging 350 per use with 299 Dark Magic Skill. Drain with the same set up was between 150-250ish.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

That's awesome news. Helpful for when you want to go full JA's WS on DRK, which is what SE intended I assume and what alot of ppl were looking forward to.

Thanks.

[Lmnop]

good news all around. =) There's a glitch reported on KI that's making DRK invincible but it'll be nerfed quickly. Basically, Hasso is making the new spells have almost no /recast.

If you have 1300 HP, and you get hit by exp mobs for 200/pop. Then Dread Spikes will keep you ok MP-free for 3-4 swings. That magic Utsusemi number again. Flash negates 2-3, Utsu's are 3-4, blinks are 2-3, Seigan is typically 3-4... and now Dread Spikes 3-4. Trendy.

Tdh: I don't invite Drk/thfs because I want to prove that Drks are good. When I invite a Drk to a rdm + brd party, I want that Drk to give a good impression. And honestly, the drks that only sub thf never give that impression. I'd like to think that I'm saving that bard from thinking ALL drks suck by not inviting the ones that I know won't keep up. And yes, I feel roughly the same about drgs (I'll invite drg/wars more than I would drk/wars, but i'm less apt to invite a drg/thf than I am a drk/thf). HOWEVER---------------------> with Dread Spikes/ Drain 2, a Drk/War can probably survive just fine these days. And a Drk/thf too, but with Absorb-TP, I still think SA just slows them down.

The biggest problem I see with these spells is that you'd want to use them both prior to activating Souleater. This adds 2 new huge hate spikes onto your DRK to further exacerbate the SE hate problem. Still, the whole "I'm better than you" damage that will come from this will be very nice. I just realized how much I want to party with a Drk+Blu so the Blu can give the Drk Diamondhide.

[Tyros]

Ok, another test. Last night I went to the tree with a couple whm friends to skill on Steelshells. It appears that dread spikes is affected heavily by shell effects.

Often, I would use Drain 2 and Dread Spikes at the beginning of a fight, but on the off chance that I waited, I would notice the spells would be HALF effective after the crabs would use Bubble Curtain.

Example:

Before Bubble Curtain: 350ish drain 2s on DC/EM crabs, and full return on hits with Dread Spikes up (35 damage, 35 absorbed etc)

After Bubble Curtain: 160-180 drain 2s on DC/EM crabs, and HALF return on hits with dread spikes up (35 damage, 17 absorbed etc).

Still nice.

[Lmnop]

DRKs beware: Min/maxing below

Drks are now more like RDMs. The higher your max HP at time of casting Dread Spikes, the more effective it will be. This means that Drain II will actually buff your Dread Spikes as higher max HP=higher Dread threshold.

Something that needs tested: If you equip on lots of +HP for the cast, will it set the HP amount in stone at that time? I.e. would you then be able to change out of HP gear into say... dual Astral Rings (just because) but keep the HP limit? I'd assume so since Phalanx figures DR based off of Enhancing magic at time of casting only. And Stoneskin is the same way - Enhancing and MND at casting time only.

If so, then a good DRK will want to carry around some +HP gear for their casts. And of course, they could start their build early just to buff up Souleater.

[tdh]

I don't invite Drk/thfs because I want to prove that Drks are good. When I invite a Drk to a rdm + brd party, I want that Drk to give a good impression. And honestly, the drks that only sub thf never give that impression. I'd like to think that I'm saving that bard from thinking ALL drks suck by not inviting the ones that I know won't keep up. And yes, I feel roughly the same about drgs (I'll invite drg/wars more than I would drk/wars, but i'm less apt to invite a drg/thf than I am a drk/thf). HOWEVER---------------------> with Dread Spikes/ Drain 2, a Drk/War can probably survive just fine these days. And a Drk/thf too, but with Absorb-TP, I still think SA just slows them down.Now if I DRK ONLY has /THF sub, then they probably aren't worth the invite. Any melee job should have all the needed subjobs available when they need them. As I mentioned, I have WAR, SAM, NIN, and THF all leveled for where my DRK is right now. I even have 5 possible weapons leveled that I could use in the party if the situation called for it. (Axe, Great Axe, Sword, Great Sword, and Scythe.) Any melee should have access to all possible tools should the situation come up.

But to say a DRKs should adapt and sub SAM makes no sense. Have it available? Yes. Out right stop using all other subs? You're kidding right?

Now unless I'm missing something, or you just didn't communicate your point fully, your reasons against DRK/THF haven't been explained. You want a DRK to impress a BRD, but didn't explain how DRK/THF couldn't still do that. Sub'n THF does lower possible damage for just about any job that would usually sub WAR. Berserk makes a huge difference, Double Attack is the greatest melee trait concieved, and the extra STR doesn't hurt either. SAM adds Meditate at Lv.60, 3rd Eye, Hasso, and eventually Seigan. I have no numbers to say /WAR and /SAM are on par, but with Abs-TP /THF can still keep up with a TP partner. Which is what counts since most DRKs aren't going to sub /THF in most TP Burns.

I've gone /THF due to BLU tank, or MNK Skillchain partner so far. (Now that I think about it, both of those instances were the same party.) As /WAR I can't use Berserk because I take too much of a beating, and going /THF reduces my MP spounge nature all while keeping up with my Skillchain partner with no problems.

So if you're building a party, and you see a DRK/THF with /THF ONRY in their comments, it's up to you to decide if that works with your camp and party. But to completely over look them because they're not /SAM is silly and wrong.

I just realized how much I want to party with a Drk+Blu so the Blu can give the Drk Diamondhide.I'm only Lv.63, but will Dread Spikes drain HP if you don't take any damage? Has anybody tested this out yet?

DRKs beware: Min/maxing below
Drks are now more like RDMs. The higher your max HP at time of casting Dread Spikes, the more effective it will be. This means that Drain II will actually buff your Dread Spikes as higher max HP=higher Dread threshold.
Something that needs tested: If you equip on lots of +HP for the cast, will it set the HP amount in stone at that time? I.e. would you then be able to change out of HP gear into say... dual Astral Rings (just because) but keep the HP limit? I'd assume so since Phalanx figures DR based off of Enhancing magic at time of casting only. And Stoneskin is the same way - Enhancing and MND at casting time only.
If so, then a good DRK will want to carry around some +HP gear for their casts. And of course, they could start their build early just to buff up Souleater.This is a good question. Another question is does Dark Magic Skill have the same effect as Enhancing Magic does for RDM buffs. Great question - just wish I was Lv.72 to test it! Either way I'm going to get my hands on a Dark Torque and Dark Earring. AF Helm & Dark Staff helped on Too Weak mobs, hopefully adding on Skill will help make up for the Dark Staff effect.

[Tyros]

Instantly when I set up to cast dread spikes, I put in my dark magic macro (buffs to 299 skill) but I don't think it is helping. I will build my hp set today and test, though most things I can kill solo, I won't take enough damage in 1 min to hit cap, but we will see.

[Lmnop]

speculation based off of current game mechanics:

the other Spikes spells use an equation for resist rates. I believe it's Int vs Int entirely (as far as stats go), with likely a very heavy level check. Enhancing Magic skill affects damage for them, I believe... I'm not sure.

Whatever, I have a feeling that Dread Spikes will use current Dark Magic Skill (+INT) to figure resist rate on every impact. There will be no upping damage, since it works more like a skillchain (the maximum damage is decided by something else. Melee hit in this case or the closing WS in the case of SCs. Thus, I think that if you take off your Dark Magic Skill+ gear, you will lower your magic accuracy. If you put it back on, your acc would go up, despite it being the same casting. Example: Rolling Thunder from Ramuh. The en-spell damage that everyone receives is based off of the recipient's Enhancing Magic skill, if I remember right. Thus, everyone hits for the minimum of 1-4 damage.

What I'm getting at is that every swing is a case-by-case basis, so a skill check is required every time.

Meanwhile, I do think that the HP cap of the spell would be decided at time of casting. I guess this is just because all the other defense buffs behave that way.

Tdh, I think I made myself seem like more of an asshole than I am. First off, I will always read my melee's comments. It's the drk/thfs who don't specify that they have other subs that I don't like. Also, I never build parties anymore -- I inherit them. For some reason, I end up with the yellow dot in about 80% of the parties I join. And since I'm usually in a "burn party" of one incarnation or another... Sneak Attack doesn't bade well in those parties. I had a THF recently and he did ok. But that's because he seperated SA and TA. a Drk/thf will not have the opportunity to set up a full SATA position. He can TA WS or he can SA WS. They will choose the extra damage more often than not and get hate. OR, they'll take the fall and TA WS, but then SA is going to waste.

I know that drk/war is superior in DPS, but I also know that it is usually suicide for a DRK. This is why I like drk/sam so much -- 70+, anyway. It doesn't have to bother with SA, it technically has higher survivability than /thf, and it's damage potential is completely implacable. Read: lots of variance. At worst though, I think it could keep up with a /thf.

All of this is great, but this isn't a SJ thread. I will party with /thfs. I just usually rather they were something else.

Btw, I don't like Sam/thfs either. I'm a /thf racist, I guess. <3 Thf main though.

this isn't a SJ thread.

--------------

Unseen benefits of Dread Spikes:

-If you get hit for 600 damage within 30 seconds, you likely just deal an additional 600 damage.
-Unlike Stoneskin and Utsuticipate, you will get TP for being hit. Small benefit, but it's there.

This is great. I love this update.

[Tyros]

Played more with Lesser Colibri tonight. Set up an HP style build out of mostly af and af2. I managed to get 1327 HP with war sub. There were a few times I actually made it to the 663 cap, even when I had already swapped gear. So it definately seems based on your HP at cast.

However, there were a couple times (2-3 at most) that it wore off in less than a minute, but I was at slightly less than cap. It seems that resists still count towards the cap as if they were not resisted.

Example:

Hit for 50, absorb 50, counts as 50 toward cap.

Hit for 50, absorb 25, counts as 50 toward cap.

In each instance that I came out with a slightly decreased return, doubling the resisted absorbs always made up what was missing and put me at 663. No Screen shots to support, but I will try again tomorrow.

[Lmnop]

Nice to know, and good observation.

Should we expect a lot of resists on VT+ mobs? Especially Imps. x.x

[tdh]

That's a good question. Will we get big resists from DRK type mobs, and do we get larger drains from mobs weak to Dark. See if you can find a Light elemental and see what happens with Dread Spikes. I'd like to see a hit for 50dmg, and drain 75dmg. ^^

Lmnop: Thanks for clarifying. From all your previous posts I didn't think you an asshole and was suddenly surprised at your view point.

I agree completely about the TP Burn. A DRK/THF is pretty much a waste in most TP Burns. You're going to SATA someboy who's trying not to main tank? And you're going to be waiting on Job Abilities before using your TP. Other problem is just how much of a hate magnet that DRK/WARs are. How do RNGs survive in parties? Their Acc is pretty much at cap, and even when firing off low level bolts/arrows they're still way out doing most of the party. I stop using 'zerk and still get my food stolen, TP reset, brains pecked out. Sometimes I swear I'm wearing Enmity+ gear.

I like /THF for when you're doing Lv.3 Skillchains, but I like SAM/THF even in TP Burns. Can still escape a fair amount of hits, and I rarely see a SAM/NIN drop the kinda WS's a SAM/THF can. Since it's never an issue of not having TP for them, it just comes down to not getting their eyes plucked from their head. I'm in a semi-static TP Burn/MB Meripo. SAM & MNK make Darkness fairly often giving me something to MB as RDM. Works quite nicely as long as we have a good puller, but it's a pretty good difference between damage from the SAM's WS's when he's NIN or THF. Considering he's SATA Gekko'n on a NIN, we're pretty safe. But that's part of why I rather like SAM/THF.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

Was in a tp burn pt at LV 65 where we had a sam/thf that had to go.

He was replaced by a mnk/war and after an hour I checked our xp/hr and found it went down by 2k. Not that it's a -bad- thing.

I wish I had Drk 72 so I could run out and test this stuff against VT+ myself..

[Tyros]

One quick note.

Dread spikes is pretty good in dynamis. I didn't have a single resist tonight on them. When being atttacked by a DRK mob with Blood Weapon up, Dread Spikes Nullifies it. You take damage, the mob is healed, but then your spikes heal back the same amount. It's pretty nice.

Drain 2 was getting around 450 from mobs in dynamis. But then I was asked to help with statue control. Threw on my dark staff, Drain 2 a statue. 145.... I did this like 3 times and couldn't break 145 on a statue in double dark weather, dark staff equipped and 299 skill.