Does WAR have to pull?

[Effedup]

Basically I'm just looking for opinions on this, as I've never pulled before...

My main is 33 MNK. About a month ago I took my WAR from 16-18.5 so I could take MNK up higher. Previously, I've been pretty much alternating between MNK and WAR...take MNK up a couple levels, take WAR up a couple levels, and so on and so forth. However, this is a really slow method obviously, as I can't really take MNK up for more than a few levels before I have to stop to level my WAR. That being said, I've decided to focus on WAR for right now, and take it up to low 30's, so that when I come back to MNK I don't have to keep stopping. Not only that, but I'm getting to the point where my future MNK gear is going to cost me a fortune, so I need to build a bankroll.

The thing is, I've only really ever been a DD. As MNK I've been backup tank in emergencies, and as my lowbie WAR I've been primary tank...but never puller. As I've partied with MNK, we've had quite a few WAR's pulling, so I'm assuming at some point I'm going to PT and get asked to go pull. So, in the interest of being more versatile in future parties, I need a crash course on pulling. For instance, is it noobish to ask pt leader what they want me to pull? I can't remember exactly what mobs we focused on my first time through the Dunes, and Quiffum, etc, so I'm going to have to ask, and don't want to look like an idiot. That being said...is it more about mobs, or what they check at? For instance, should I pull ONLY crabs, or anything that's VT or IT in the zone? I'm not trying to wipe my party pulling the wrong mob.

Also, my ranged skill is currently 0...like I said, I've never pulled. What's a good way to skill up ranged attack quickly (and not too expensively)? I can take my WAR out and shoot arrows at everything I see for a day or two (does ranged skill work the same as weapon skills, in that the mobs have to be above a certain level for me to skill up on them?). However, I recently opened up RNG, which is also level 1, so I suppose I could just change jobs and work on RNG for a while, and get skill ups that way...but I'm trying to do this quickly, before I HAVE to pull and end up missing every shot. I've been in parties where we've had WAR's voke pulling...but honestly, that seems like it sucks.

Anyways, getting back to the original topic...as a WAR, if I get an invite, should I assume that I'm going to have to pull some of the time? Is it acceptable as a WAR to NOT pull, or is that part of the job? Obviously, if we've got a RNG or THF, they're prolly gonna be doing the pulling, so it's not a big issue in those cases...but I want to be prepared for the day we don't and everyone's staring at me wondering why I have't run off to find a mob yet.

Sorry so long (I'm long-winded as you can see), but thanks for any insights into this. ^^

[Mhurron]

Have to? No. Can do? Yes, WAR is a good choice for pulling. You don't need a high ranged skill to pull. Personally I pulled with a crossbow and the cheapest bolts I could buy.

If you want to level it up, kill some stuff in starter areas, then move to something like Worms in Konschtat.

[Skoal]

Since War has a D in marksmanship, you won't be hitting much on exp mobs if you skill was capped.

If there are no thfs or rngs in the party usually the party decides who is going to pull. Its ok to ask what the party wants to fight.

Just bring a fast crossbow and cheap bolts to every party just in case.

[Tirrock]

I'd much rather have a WAR pulling than a MNK or a DRG. I'd go with crossbow so you can use acid bolts, which have a pretty hefty defense down added effect.

In most low/mid level pick up groups I'm in where there's no RNG, we all just sort of stand around until a mage asks "who's pulling?", then we stand around for 10 more seconds before I shoot something. >_>a

As far as what to pull...I can see that as being hard for somebody that doesn't know the camp. If you're unsure, it's probably best to ask whoever lead you to that camp what you're fighting.

[hongman]

Thats the thing about pulling with Ranged attacks - you dont have to hit them for it to "work". As long as you fire that shot, hit or miss, you've pulled.

Asking what mobs to pull isnt noobish at all. Granted some people already know what to pull, but going through lower areas like Valkrum and Qufim where there ARE a variety of mobs to pull, no harm is asking for a preference.

When you pull the mob, I think VT-IT is best. Or even T-VT. Dont for the IT++'s that will take you an age of missing to kill, its not worth it.

Skilling up ranged is same as any other combat skill. It goes on comparing what lvl SKILL you are compared to the mob. Notice this does not take into account you're char lvl. So me for example, I am a 60RDM, but have lvl 3 Ranged skill. At the lvl, I wont get skillups in anything higher than LTP. Trust me Iv tried it. Start in the 3 starter areas, as you notice skillups slowing down, move on to next area. Try to pick static mobs like worms so they cant chase you.

Hope this helps! ^^

[dspeed]

Well like the other said to skill up range just get crossbow/bow and start going on a range spree. I recommend crossbow because it has way lower delay than bow. And if you range is not up to par don't waste money on good bolt because it will be like throwing gil down the drain. Just buy some crossbow bolt which are usually 6-8 a piece from npc and if you're pulling that will last you a while if you get a stack of 99. Since you only using it to pull.

[hongman]

Better still, pick up a throwing weapon. Wont cost you any money in consumables then ^^

[LyonheartLakshmi]

As far as the job of being the puller, my personal opinion is that it's the hardest job in the party. Properly pacing pulls has a huge impact on how much exp/hour the party earns. The faster you pull the next mob, the higher your exp/hour will go. However, going too fast may stress certain party members. Being puller is a constant negotiation with the rest of the party.

Not only do you have to balance legitimate concerns (PLD and healing mages need sufficient MP), but you have to deal with petty ones as well. I've had party members complain that I should only be pulling IT mobs when we're at the high end of the level range for that zone, and only 1 out of 5 spawns are going to be IT. I've had mages complain that I should only pull plain IT mobs, and not the IT++ one that I just dragged to camp. In reality, the mob appeared as IT++ because the mage is wielding a weapon for which their combat skill is woefully low. Meanwhile, with my capped combat skill, the same mob might appear as having low evasion and low defense.

Practical tips for pulling:
- Boomerang is a very cheap pulling alternative for WARs.
- Sound detecting + linking mobs are very difficult to pull as WAR/MNK, especially if they also aggro. It's hard to eyeball distances between mobs visually unless you stand on top of them (which is not an option for aggro mobs). Having either THF or NIN sub greatly helps in that it gives you mob radar. Red dots on the radar are a lot easier to gauge distances between, and makes pulling these mobs without links a lot easier.

[Effedup]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Even though I really AM a noob, I still don't like looking like one. Call it pride if you will ^^

Another quick question I didn't think to ask in the o.p.: If, as WAR, I am primary tank, does that mean I'm still going to be pulling? I static with another person in my LS, who's taking NIN up with my MNK (and will be switching to PLD at 37), so the whole "primary tank" things is pretty new to me, too...but pretty easy to pick up being that I've been DD'ing for a while now, seems like the only difference at this level range is that I don't have to hold back on my ws's and get to voke every 30 seconds. Of course, sometimes it can be a bitch to hold hate when the DD's decide to go balls-out randomly, but so far (luckily) this has been the exception rather than the rule.

Anyways, based on broad party dynamics, is being puller AND primary tank broken as WAR? I've been in pt's where my static NIN is asked to pull and tank, which seemed really broken to me given that it's pretty much a waste of shadows and in general a pain in the ass (he was pissed, lots of profanity-laden ls chatting that day, but he took one for the team until we could find a THF when someone left). The way I look at it, it's prolly not as big an issue because I'm not going to be taking nearly the damage he did on the runs back to camp when his shadows went down...but if it's gonna be broken, I'd rather just say that at the outset when I get asked to do both rather than limp along almost wiping with every mob and exhausting the healer's MP pool.

Sorry if I'm thinking too much into this...I'm just of the opinion that even a lvl 18 pt can be uber if it's played right ^^

[Mhurron]

If, as WAR, I am primary tank, does that mean I'm still going to be pulling?
Probably not. You'd pretty much only be asked to do so if there was no other job in the party that would be a good puller.

[hongman]

If someone asked me to be main tank and pull, Id ask them to GTFO :)

Puller brings the mob to camp and you voke it off them, unless you have a THF in which case another person would first voke so you can be behind the mob, and the THF behind you with SATA to plant the hate firmly on you.

Ideally.

[Murphie]

If someone asked me to be main tank and pull, Id ask them to GTFO :)

Puller brings the mob to camp and you voke it off them, unless you have a THF in which case another person would first voke so you can be behind the mob, and the THF behind you with SATA to plant the hate firmly on you.

Ideally.Personally, I'd do whatever was necessary to keep the party moving and the exp rolling in. If that means I have to go pull because no one else is capable, I'll do it.

Doesn't mean I'll be happy about it, but it's better than standing around staring at each other.

[Effedup]

If someone asked me to be main tank and pull, Id ask them to GTFO :)

Good to know...I don't want to look like a prima donna when I ask how the hell they expect me to do both well when they are pretty much exclusive role's in my (limited) experiences. I get enough funny looks and remarks when I ask one of the DD's to hold back and let me secure hate before they start firing off ws's left and right, so I don't want to appear bitchy when I suggest a different course of action if it's unwarranted...

[Murphie]

Ideally someone other than the tank would be pulling so that they can break away before the fight is over to grab the next mob. Tanks can't do that.

[hongman]

Ok, maybe I was being a bit scoffish about it. I would do it, providing that there really was no other option - and I mean REALLY. At the end of the day though, what other job cant pull? *EDIT* you know what i mean, I know not all jobs should pull >.>

You're generally gonna have 3 DD's in your party, and you as a tank. I failed to see where it is likely enough that none of them have a pulling technique and it resorts down to tank pulling. Whether it be ranged, throwing, dia, song, etc...

Yes there is a chance they are all non /war sub and have NO ranged at all...then Id would begrudgingly do it.

[Murphie]

The only time I've really had to pull and tank in the same party has been in the sub-30 levels. Generally by the time you hit up the Jungles, people at least understand that someone has to pull other than the tank.

[hongman]

The only exception is if at the end of the fight, everyone was ready for another round, and an exp mob had popped close by - then I might just voke it and be done with it.

[Celeal]

Pulling is an important aspect in exp. parties. Sooner or later, you will notice that in those best parties you will have, there will be great pullers presented there.

Even currently I am level MNK again, I was puller in my level 55 party: PLD, WHM, BLU, 3x MNK. When I pulled with those Pebbles I picked after mining session, my party LOL so hard XD. Between Chi Blast and 30 Pebbles, it last for 1.5 hours before I ran out of ammo.

If your job does not required to /heal for MP, I would say expected to pull, even the request can be happended once in a blue moon.

Added:
Using Provoke to pull is the worst method, unless you are in an over-crowded exp area, in which pulling becomes pseudo-NM hunting.

If no one has range attack for pulling in your party, I suggest for pull-by-aggro:

1. If the mob can be aggro by sight, just stand in front of it at a distance, and you can let it chases after you to your camp without any link if done correctly.

2. If the mob aggro by sound, without drawing out your weapon, slowly walk toward the mob at the maximum distant until the mob detects you. Even if there are multiple sound-aggro/link mob very close togather, you can aggro-pull one without linking the others if you are at the distances between the mobs.

3. If the mob is aggro-free, first draw out you weapon, then poke the mob, and then unlock the auto-target (camera) and run like hell.

A great puller can push the upper limit of the parties' exp, have fun pulling ^^/

[Tirrock]

If you're breaking away midfight to pull, be sure the mages have enough MP to keep your party alive. I've never had a party on any of my jobs I pulled on where the mages didn't have MP problems. (Either from lack of refresh or mismanagement of MP.)

I usually don't like the tank pulling because no matter what kind of tank it is, they lose out. Ninjas lose shadows while running back (if they're not far enough away from the monster when they pull), paladins lose a chance to rest MP.

[Tirrock]

Even currently I am level MNK again, I was puller in my level 55 party: PLD, WHM, BLU, 3x MNK. When I pulled with those Pebbles I picked after mining session, my party LOL so hard XD. Between Chi Blast and 30 Pebbles, it last for 1.5 hours before I ran out of ammo.
Oh man, monk pulling. Not much you could do to avoid that one with all the melees being MNKs and a BLU though. I never carried around pebbles because I never had enough inventory room for them. I still had to pull from time to time though. :x It became easier at level 70 when I could (finally) equip a reusable ranged weapon.

I wouldn't provoke pull or run up and punch something then run away though. Both just get you beat up.

Edit:
We got rid of auto merging double posts? Oops.

[Celeal]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Even though I really AM a noob, I still don't like looking like one. Call it pride if you will ^^

Another quick question I didn't think to ask in the o.p.: If, as WAR, I am primary tank, does that mean I'm still going to be pulling? I static with another person in my LS, who's taking NIN up with my MNK (and will be switching to PLD at 37), so the whole "primary tank" things is pretty new to me, too...but pretty easy to pick up being that I've been DD'ing for a while now, seems like the only difference at this level range is that I don't have to hold back on my ws's and get to voke every 30 seconds. Of course, sometimes it can be a bitch to hold hate when the DD's decide to go balls-out randomly, but so far (luckily) this has been the exception rather than the rule.

Anyways, based on broad party dynamics, is being puller AND primary tank broken as WAR? I've been in pt's where my static NIN is asked to pull and tank, which seemed really broken to me given that it's pretty much a waste of shadows and in general a pain in the ass (he was pissed, lots of profanity-laden ls chatting that day, but he took one for the team until we could find a THF when someone left). The way I look at it, it's prolly not as big an issue because I'm not going to be taking nearly the damage he did on the runs back to camp when his shadows went down...but if it's gonna be broken, I'd rather just say that at the outset when I get asked to do both rather than limp along almost wiping with every mob and exhausting the healer's MP pool.

Sorry if I'm thinking too much into this...I'm just of the opinion that even a lvl 18 pt can be uber if it's played right ^^

The time during the NIN's first set of shadows is very critical, it can determine the hate control of the rest of the battle and the downtime afterwards. A NIN would like to have a full set of shadows and Utsusemi /recast time before the battle begins (although often it is not possible). If the shadows is stripped before the fight begins, the NIN has to deal with getting the shadows back up instead of hate control.

It is safer to have the tank stay in camp instead of pulling. If a mob wanders into the camp during pulling by accident, the tank is there to protect the party members. A party should also warn the puller if there is any mob wanders around the camp during pulling, to avoid any link situation.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Don't remember seeing this suggestion in any other post, so here goes: Make yourself a Pulling macro.

Make sure it announces to the party that you're pulling a mob, include the mobs name by using <t>, and add a non-offensive call like <scall14>. It's a light chime like sound. You never know when a party member might be distracted by something that's on the TV or their cat doing something cute/not so cute. The call helps remind them that they should hurry back to the keyboard and/or start paying close attention. If you're wondering about the difference between call and scall, scall doesn't make player's controllers vibrate.

Try not to get too clever with flavor text in your pulling macro. It might be funny the first time you see it. But it won't be nearly as entertaining the other 59 times during the party.

My pulling macro looks like this:
/p {Ranged attack} >>>> <t> <scall14>
/equip ammo
/ra <t>

The /equip line makes sure I don't accidentally throw something like my Bomb Core, Morion Tathlum (mages typically don't pull with ranged attack, but I might accidentally switch macro palettes and hit this macro in the heat of battle), Bibiki Seashell, etc (I pull with a boomerang). If you want to pull with a bow or crossbow, simply put in the ammo item you want to pull with, like /equip ammo "Acid Bolt". Swapping what's in your ammo slot won't reset your TP.

I also have a separate ranged attack macro right next to the pulling macro, which doesn't have anything going to /p. I use the Pull macro first, and if the mob is out of range, I use the ranged attack macro so I don't spam my party with the same text over and over.