15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

[IfritnoItazura]

Recently, I joined an LS static party on my Black Mage after a long absence from the job. Prior to that, the job was leveled exclusively in pickup groups (PUG's).

BLM Lv.10-30 was done "noob" style, with random nuking. >_>; (I didn't know better than "more INT is good".) After a very long break from BLM, though, Lv.30 to 40 was continued with much more attention to damage, mob weakness, weather, day of the week, and with inventory packed full of lot's and lot's of melon juice--all with a parser running.

In the last five or sixe levels to Lv.40, I was always the top or second to top DD in the parties, and have gotten used thinking of my Black Mage as a "top tier" damage dealer. ("Blink" also became one of my favorite spell on BLM during that time. <_<; ) I also had the good fortune of always landing in an SC party--or at least in a group of people I can turn into an SC party.

Now, back to the static party: in the last session, I did about 15% of the damage overall, and 18% of the curing. This is very far away from the MNK's 27% damage.

PLD/WAR, MNK/WAR, THF/NIN, RNG/NIN, RDM/WHM, and BLM/WHM is the party setup, and we were doing mostly Funnel Bats in Garlaige Citadel. The real question I have boils down to this: Am I leeching?

Doesn't feel like I'm doing enough damage (or curing) to justify my spot in the party. =/

Granted, every single members of the party is far above your average PUG players, and DD-wise both the THF and the MNK definitely have top notch gears while I'm probably just average or slightly above. (Seer's set, with +1 head and one other piece? The standard INT+ ammo, earrings, black neckerchief, INT+3 rings. Also have a fair amount of MP gear for swapping. Food wise, it's currently Buche au Chocolat, which I share with the RDM.)

What can I do to earn my keep better? (Note that I don't mind curing--leveling RDM to 67 and WHM to 44 have drilled that into me; I already apply party buffs like Baraera, Protectra, and Shellra on a regular basis.)

A) Cure more, and nuke less? Melee's and Ranger are much better than me at doing damage--let them do their things, and I concentrate helping the RDM/WHM keep up healing instead. Somehow, this seems to go against the grain of the job... :P (But, if that's what I have to do to be more useful, I'd do it in a heartbeat.)

B) Nuke more, and cure less? Shortening battles means PLD takes less of a beating. To do this, though, I need to recovery more MP--that means spend longer consecutive amount of time /heal on, and being less available to help out the RDM. Probably this also means switching to maximum hMP+ food, such as Imperial Coffee +1 or Wizard Cookie.

C) Make each nuke count more? In previous session, I had a 2.60 dmg/MP ratio in Crawler's Nest, with no SC to MB with. This last session, with RNG and THF set up a Distortion for me in Garlaige Citadel, it went down to 2.31dmg/MP on mixed bats and beetles. >_<

C1) Somehow make 1.2 million Gil happen, and acquire the (Lv.35) Elemental Earring? More INT is probably possible (gil not withstanding), but I doubt they would make as much of a difference as less resists on nukes. There doesn't seem to be other options to lessen resist from gear setup, unless I'm missing something. I honestly do not think I can make that much gil before hitting 50, though. T_T

C2) Ask the THF or RNG to cast elemental Ninjutsu for me? While Doton: Ichi will help me land Aeroga on bats better by lowering elemental resistence, is it really worth their time to cast it periodically? THF contributed 25% of the total damage last session, and RNG did 24%. Would it be too selfish of me to request that and other Ninjutsu?


I'm willing to entertain other thoughts and suggestions as well; I'd really like to contribute more to this great party that gives my BLM such a precious opportunity to level with zero seek time. >_<; Help me out?

[Murphie]

The 30s-40s are kind of a bad patch for BLM. It does get better the closer you get to 50 though.

I'm not a mathematics whiz, and I don't care to play FFXI that way anyway. I figure if we kill the mob, and do it pretty quickly then we're good to go. But I understand that other people enjoy quantifying exactly how fast it died and to what.

That said, I think it really depends on your static. If they need you to cure more, then cure more. If they need you to nuke more, then nuke more.

The bottom line (and the question you asked first) is that no, you're not leeching. You're just in a bit of a bad patch there. If you targeted different mobs, you might see a real change in the ratios.

[Necropolis]

Well for me on BLM I like seeing the big numbers. Naturally I would go with the more nuking. You have a couple options available to get more damage from your spells.

I assume that you are using Burn to lower the mobs Int to get more damage?

Now, a radical idea that a 75 blm friend in my LS suggested I try blm/nin. This however stops you from helping the rdm at all with cures, but might be do able with a pld tank. Benifits here are:

1. Dual wield int wands, you'd be amazed at what the extra Int does for your nukes.
2. Elemental Ninjitsu that is MP free. You can cast your own enfeebles for your next spell and get damage out of it. And the times that I've tried this I did more damage with the elemental wheel than my nin does. (I'm a taru so I have a natually higher int as well as MP pool)
3. Utsusemi - Better than blink because it guarentees the next three hits are damage free, and that should be more than enough time for a PLD to get the hate back.

So your major Con here is the inability to help out the rdm/whm at all in this scenario. But I've seen this same blm in merit parties against Greater Colibri not take any damage from reflect spells. You can always open with AM and cast stun right after, worst case scenario is your tank gets stunned for a few seconds.

So I would try that out for a short exp session and see what you can make of it and see if you could make it work in your party setup. It's certainly not for "PUGs" but with a group of friends you might be able to make it work. But that is a lot of strain on a rdm/whm as main healer. But with a BLM higher int you could help with the enfeebles (I forgot what level you would get them as a sub, and about to go to work). Ninjitsu para/slow/blind could be comparable to the rdm's provided you'll be able to make them stick.

Give it a try, or tell me your thoughts on the idea.

[Murphie]

Keep in mind Itazura is talking about the mid to late-40s here. Ancient Magic is a ways off.^^

Still, if the party could stand it, that's one way to boost INT by quite a bit.

[IfritnoItazura]

Actually, I was using Tier II spells. ^_^; Tier I spells are for Wingrats around Lv.32 to 35, while Funnel Bats are for Lv.45 to 49ish, using Tier II singles or Tier I -ga's.

Black Mage leveled from 45 to 47 last session. v^_^;

[Murphie]

Ah, ok. Then I need to correct my last post. I thought you were talking about Garlaige levels only. :3 I should have realized Siege Bats aren't the same as Funnel Bats.

[Necropolis]

Yea, I'm not sure the /nin is all that great in 40s-50s, but worth a shot. I havn't leveled my BLM in a while, hoping to catch a few friends to level it with one day and try out the blm/nin more.

I know that once you get to 50 and have freeze that timing a MB with that can put out over 1000 damage and kill the crabs in Kuftal from 35%ish life. (I've only had one party where that happend, hume blm/whm)

Timing the MB on freeze can be tricky, but once you have it down you can set up the macro to tell your party members when to start the skillchain (I want to say at 60% casting for some reason, may be off though).

If blm/nin doesn't work for your set-up now, you could try it down the road. It's a valid option that I've seen used (albiet sparsly) to great effect. But I wouldn't try it if your main-healing rdm isn't ready for the full brunt of the curing. I know while leveling whm I've been able to handle 50+ parties as the only support class, and a rdm with near limitless MP could possibly do it, but may gimp effectiviness somewhere.

Another option to help the rdm, that I thought of and is most probably ignorant is a mnk/whm for the mnd+ Chi Blast. This is mostly used for endgame activities where you are kiting mobs around, but he could get a few boost between battles and help with cures. But I'm thinking that it's not going to work with the amount of hate he'll be drawing as a mnk already. And /whm will only gimp his damage and make him a sub-standard back up healer. So ignore that idea unless you wanna experiment, curious to see if it would boost chi blast at all at that level.

(since we are on the same server, I'm more than willing to bring out my whm to a party post-50 to hand out some R3s for the sake of experiment)

[IfritnoItazura]

I assume that you are using Burn to lower the mobs Int to get more damage?
When I can; with MNK on first voke, the THF and RNG are under high pressure to bust out Distortion ASAP. I've missed a few opportunity to cast Burn (or even MB, though much rarer) from curing/regen'ing the MNK.


Now, a radical idea that a 75 blm friend in my LS suggested I try blm/nin.
Yes, I've considered this. From Lv.30 to 40, I've been out DD'ed by exactly one BLM: a JP Tarutaru BLM/NIN. I was very impressed--and rode on his coattail; I cast same spells he did after his Ninjutsu. :rofl:

The problem with that idea is that there are only two mages in my static, and we both need /WHM. Anything else may be unsafe.

1. Dual wield int wands, you'd be amazed at what the extra Int does for your nukes.
To be honest, I think that's a nice-to-have but minimal benefit. With reasonable gears, resist is a bigger problem than base damage--or, put it another way, a BLM loses out on more damage from resist than lack of INT dominance compared to mobs.

2. Elemental Ninjitsu that is MP free. You can cast your own enfeebles for your next spell and get damage out of it. And the times that I've tried this I did more damage with the elemental wheel than my nin does. (I'm a taru so I have a natually higher int as well as MP pool)

NIN does quite a bit better with Ni level wheel, especially with MAB from /BLM or /RDM. The resist down effect does wear off rather quickly, so it leads to chain nuking right after the elemental Ninjutsu, which leads to Utsusemi's usefulness and a monster running around... ^_^; In my static though, moving the monster around isn't really an issue--the THF gives the PLD enough enmity for MNK to WS before first provoke.

And, while Ninjutsu is MP free, it's not time free. It means a significantly smaller MP pool (for this Mithra), with 4sec time sliced off between every two spells or so (Tier II single + Tier I -ga of same element), which would cut in to /heal on time, eventually. Time is MP for Black Mages, unfortunately.

So your major Con here is the inability to help out the rdm/whm at all in this scenario. But I've seen this same blm in merit parties against Greater Colibri not take any damage from reflect spells.

I want to try this. :biggrin: Probably don't need to cure too much when fighting Greater Colibri if I can actually do very significant damage once a minute.

On second thought, though, the static's RDM will be taxed to the limit with Haste and Refresh then, so I don't think I should abandon healing even on those critters. Oh well.

(Of course, I'd be just as happy never meeting another Greater Colibri again... Boring as heck critter for my RDM; ended up melee'ing them to keep from falling asleep during party.)

[Murphie]

(Of course, I'd be just as happy never meeting another Greater Colibri again... Boring as heck critter for my RDM; ended up melee'ing them to keep from falling asleep during party.)Considering where my comment like this in that other thread got me, this kind of makes me giggle, but I totally have your back here. You have to do something. :3

[Necropolis]

Well if you want to try out the scenario post-50, I'm game to come out and watch the fun and cover your butts when things go sour. And as a last ditch effort cast some R3s :3

Has potential, but not sure if your party setup could work with it. Would be better to have another support role (either whm, brd/whm or something of the like). But just send me a tell if your static is in the mode of experiementing, until then I'll ponder other solutions to your more immediate concerns.

[IfritnoItazura]

Thanks for the offer, Necropolis. ^_^

With everyone on time crunch, I doubt other members would be in much mood for experimenting. As is, the party has done pretty well on the whole at zero death from Lv.40 to 47, with a single close call which I managed to Escape'd us from. (I just wish I can do more for them.)

I'm afraid any alteration I make has to be small, and preferably with the ability to revert instantly if it's not working out to be better. Sometimes, success is the biggest hurdle to innovation. ^_^;

[Neomage]

Are you leaching? NO.

SE has greatly modified a BLM's role in a party with FFXI compared to alot of other FF games. A BLM is more of a multirole job these days, and your statistics reflect that. It may look bad with the Monk heavily out damaging you, but you have to take some figures into account:

Monk is purely a DD job. They don't even have the option to cure if thats needed in a DD party. Sure, they can Chakara, but that only helps themselves. Because of this, you have to take into account several things:

1) Where you casting Elemental Enfeebles?(Choke, Rasp, Frost, etc) If you where, you where probably improving the Monk's damage. So you could probably think about that as an extra 1-2% of damage your contributing to all the melees(if your using the ones beneficial to melee). If your not, start using them, and look at my sticky on the top of the forum to see you to use them efficently.

2) Where you still preforming a Skillchain still? Even in Mainland areas, TP burns are still effective, and as a result, if you are not SCing, the melee DD's potential goes up while yours goes down.

3) You are not geared for optimum DD potential. I assume your subbing WHM. This is the job that offers the leats potential to a BLM as a subjob(for damage dealing, most for support). Following this comes RDM, SMN, and finally NIN. Don't fret because of this, imagine how much the melee's damage and downtime would suffer if you weren't there. In FFXI you need to be a team, and support your party, not only yourself. It's these team-based parties that still get 30k+ EXP/hour in Caedarva Meripo Parties, and the ones concerned with their own OMGWTFBBQDAMGERAMPAGE that are getting 10k/hour.

[Karinya]

A few points:

1. The parser is underrating your damage. Poison, bio, and elemental enfeeble (choke, etc.) damage doesn't appear in the log and isn't counted by parsers. In addition, Choke and Frost indirectly raise the other party members' damage, but a parser will credit the increased damage to them, not to you. Parsers can be useful, but they have their limits.

2. Bats are very squishy mobs and in addition they're weak to piercing, which two of your DDs are. You would probably get very different results on crawlers or beetles (let alone crabs). Or the gobs outside Ifrit's Cauldron - what the heck is a static doing in an overcamped hellhole like Garlaige anyway? :P Go burst waterga2 on some gobs and see what that does to your damage.

3. Your damage will improve noticeably in a few levels when you can use elemental staves. Partly for the damage increase, partly for the extra MP from Dark Staff, but also because of their effect on resists. You'll also get +skill AF, which will impact resists a lot; and then, too, skill levels increase fast in the 50s. Melees in the late 40s are also underskilled compared to their targets, but they can make it up to some extent with gear and food; mages can't, so they just get resisted a lot until they get the higher skill and +skill AF of the 50s.

4. You can also provide Sleep and Escape, and you have elemental seal to back up that sleep, which a RDM/WHM doesn't. Hopefully you only need these once or twice a night, or even less; but when you do, they make quite a bit of difference.

5. Most other DDs can't provide even 1% of the curing; most other curers are going to be hard pressed to reach 5% of the damage. If the party needs more curing than the RDM alone can provide (which they often do), they don't really have a lot of other options for that slot. A WHM would do nowhere near your damage; a BRD might (indirectly), or a SMN, but those are two of the rarest jobs in the game. A BLM who will actually help with some heals when needed is rare and valuable. I can pretty much guarantee your RDM doesn't want to see you replaced with another RNG or whatever.

[Celeal]

That 18% of curing makes you a great BLM ^o^!. I had partied with countless of BLM that their /WHM and White Magic is just for show (never cast any of them on other members).

[Vyuru]

Note, I am not a high level blm but I staticed with one who did alot of experimenting in our static of: pld, thf, war, drg, blm, whm

He found that +elemental skill > int for one, so as Karinya said, once you get your AF your damage will increase greatly. Staffs of course help with curing/regaining mp, but since you've got alot of other magely jobs I'm sure you knew that already ;)

However he found that having the appropriate elemental staff paired with an elemental spell was better than using the staff that had +elemental skill on it (Ice staff maybe? I forget) So you'd want to use a wind staff with wind magic and so on. So you will probably want to get most of the elemental staffs to pimp out your blm.

And as others have said, you're kinda in a bit of a slump right now, once you change the mobs you fight you'll see your damage go way up. I see it happen alot in parties actually, if we are fighitng a piercing weak mob then I will outdamage the warriors, not counting my wyvern, who'd normally outdamage me, not counting my wyvern.

Be very careful when using Freeze, if it does not kill the mob instantly you will have one pissed off mob that almost no amount of JA/WS will be able to turn short of Two Hours, or if your thf has SATA up and the rng has Barrage up they might be able to kill the mob before it kills you. Although if the thf is SCing he'd have used SATA.... So yeah, salvation rests on the shoulders of the rng then, unless Chi Blast is any good, never saw a monk use it in a party though.

If you want I can ask our blm how he did his AM macros for SC, basically we told him when we were ready to SC and his macro went something like:

/p Casting (insert AM here) get ready to skillchain! <callX>
/ma "insert AM here" <t>
/wait5
/p START THE SKILLCHAIN NOW

He liked to have full caps at that part in case of battle spam or whatever, just so that it was unusual, and stood out more making it easier to spot.


EDIT:

Forgot to add, just because you are doing 15% of the damage and 18% of the curing doesn't make you a bad blm. I'd point out that it sounds like you are the one casting Regen on the party, and do parsers take that into consideration?

You're doing what you need to do for the party, which makes you a good blm no matter what.

[Sabaron]

I like BLM/NIN (I posted parses in another thread). Your suggestion about the jutsus being cast by the THF or RNG is a way to go, but unless it's necessary that you use your mp for curative purposes (The RDM is already subbing WHM and you have a PLD tank, so I'm thininking the RDM can handle it), I would recommend subbing NIN for at least one level. I went full-wheel when I did it from 30-36, and it worked excellently. Your Ichi Elementals do nice damage (nicer than a NIN/WAR's I noticed) and they make your mp more "efficient". You will also, yourself, not absorb any of the RDMs MP since you'll be using Utsusemi instead of Blink to take hits. This also allows you to over-nuke by 1-2 nukes and still get through it unscathed.

However, since you don't have a dedicated WHM, your healing role may be preserved in this PT. If the THF or RNG throw jutsus, they'll be very, very weak, and in order to keep up with you, they have to basically become your devoted servant. This strategy is really only viable with Ni elementals thrown by a real Ninja.

[IfritnoItazura]

*sob* I miscalculated; I only did 15% of the healing, not 18%. I feel even more useless now. >_<

* * *

Elemental Ninjutsu from /NIN is fine for the purpose, BTW, from THF or RNG or BLM; see Armando's A new use for /NIN (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/warrior/54113-new-use-nin.html) thread. The Ichi -ton spell will land for nearly no damage from THF or RNG, but more than makes up for the cast time by lowering resists for SC effect.

While they may or may not enhance accuracy enough to make a difference for MB nukes, outside of MB's those Ninjutsu do help free nuking a great deal. The trade off is not damage--any DoT damage the RNG or THF loses I can more than make up from nukes following the -ton's. It's more of an issue of complicating RNG's and THF's duties and slowing their TP gain, and whether the additional damage is worth the trouble to them.

The kicker is, though, higher we level, the more useful the technique becomes.

As the THF level, the more damaging SATA Viper Bite becomes--making damage enabled from the same Ichi spells even greater from unresisted Distortion. The same goes for spells; right now I only have Tier II singles and mostly Tier I AoE nukes, but imagine the amount of damaged to be gained moving from just 1/8 to 1/4 resist on Tier III single or Tier II AoE.

So, even if this idea is only so-so at Lv.47, it may have real merit a few levels down the road.

The more I thought about going BLM/NIN, though, the worse it sounds. The RDM will have Haste duty soon--if anything, I should be doing more curing, not less, in the future.

* * *

In case I didn't make it clear, while Black Mage by nature seems to be a damage dealer, if my party would benefit more from my MP by curing instead of nuking, I'm perfectly willing to nuke less and cure more.

Either way, it can't be a bad thing to make any nuke I cast more efficient; 2.31 dmg/MP seems a bit low. ^_^;

[Toksyuryel]

One way you can reduce your resist rate is by casting Shock, if that's what you are concerned about. I remember that for the better part of my mid-level career I would cast Shock and then Burn immediately after the mob was pulled, and then throw out my biggest nuke (a decent PLD with a THF backing him up will hold hate). Never ever cast AM except for emergency situations. Even bursted it's a total waste of both time and MP. (Note: AM2 does not seem to share this distinction; it's quite rather awesome in factaru^^)

To echo what everyone else is saying though, no you are most certainly NOT leeching. Most BLMs get 0% healing, you are very valuable to your party.

[Sabaron]

Burn, not Shock, has been iirc the spell that has been tested in the case of Black Magic Resists. Shock assists with White Magic resists. It [Burn] does help a bit.

The healing bit is quite a conundrum... BLM doesn't make a very good healer (about SMN strength with no free refresh and less mp). Besides that, healing diverts a good portion of your attention away and eats up enmity that could've been used for nuking. You may wish to restrict Haste to tank only once that comes up (that's what I usually end up giving in a party where I am main healing). That new action in the cycle will only slightly reduce your RDM's healing time.

If you're already set in to the role of a shared healer, then there's not much you can do about it. Your efficiency will be bad since you have no Healing Magic skill except from sub, and you'll be limited to Cure III.

So, in summary:

1. Sub-onry Healing Skill (may affect Cure output before capping)
2. Cure III top end
3. Greater Enmity from Cures = Less availability for Nukes
4. Greater MP usage with long spans of downtime

I'm sure you've mained before on RDM. You should be able to see where this is going, and, at least from my perspective, the prognosis is rather negative. If you cross that line from tertiary healer (PLD > RDM > BLM) to secondary healer (PLD > RDM <= BLM), your performance will be rather unappetizing.

The RDM and PLD should be able to handle the healing exclusively for most of the time. I think your focus, regardless of actions of the other party members, should be on causing damage rather than repairing it. I think you're trying to put on your Warlock's Boots again when you should be wearing Wizard's Sabots.

There may be some times when you need to throw a save Cure, but if it's not time for that, don't throw any.

Another thing to consider may be giving up your Refresh and Juicing/Resting to give the RDM more time and mp to devote to healing.

[Toksyuryel]

It is widely accepted that INT has absolutely nothing to do with resist rate and it's been tested and re-tested and re-re-tested that MND definitely seems to have *something* to do with resists (across the board, not just for white magic). I can say from personal experience that I saw my resist rate go down once I started using Shock (I *was* using only Burn before for quite a while before someone told me to try Shock too).

[Icemage]

You're not exactly leeching. The problem is your static party needs some tweaking or you'll continue to struggle.

PLD, MNK, RNG, THF, RDM, BLM.

Replace the MNK with a BRD and you'd be at a classic 3/3 setup. Replace you as BLM with a BRD or Corsair and you have a TP burn (but your RDM had best be spot on along with your PLD).

The fact that you're doing 15% of the curing highlights the support problem. This is going to become much worse once you hit the higher levels, since this setup doesn't need nuking for damage.

When looking at your numbers, remember you're competing against 3.5 damage dealers (MNK, RNG, THF, plus some extra damage from the PLD) and 2 full time healers (PLD, RDM).

I'm not saying your static party is bad... but it seems pretty inefficient. I wouldn't even try to set up a pickup party with this configuration, let alone a static party.


Icemage

[Icemage]

It is widely accepted that INT has absolutely nothing to do with resist rate and it's been tested and re-tested and re-re-tested that MND definitely seems to have *something* to do with resists (across the board, not just for white magic). I can say from personal experience that I saw my resist rate go down once I started using Shock (I *was* using only Burn before for quite a while before someone told me to try Shock too).
Widely accepted where?

INT most definitely affects resist rates when your INT < Target's INT, and has a mild effect even when your INT > Target's INT.

Shock has never, ever affected my resist rate on BLM or RDM for black magic.


Icemage

[Tirrock]

I see people mentioning Chi Blast a lot. Chi blast isn't very useful in an exp situation, outside of starting to boost up while somebody is afk and hoping they get back before boost wears.

You can boost up to 12 times in a row, and chi blast damage is effected by three things. Number of boosts, MND, and AF gloves (which enhance boost). The damage of a 3 boost chi blast is laughable (50 damage). A 10+ boost chi blast without MND gear might get you 250-300 damage before AF gloves. Between pulls you'd likely get about 3 boosts, since boost is on a 15 second recast timer.

The monk cannot melee while boosting, or he'll lose the boost. And a monk's melee damage definitely outweighs a fully boosted chi blast on exp monsters.

Off the topic of boosting and chi blasting... What was this static made for? I didn't see it mentioned. If it was made for fun; friends exping jobs together, then I really wouldn't worry too much about it. If you guys made this with the goal of getting 75 in those jobs as fast as possible without resorting to pick up groups, you'll probably want to look into those set-ups Icemage mentioned. (Bard + Red Mage always equaled awesome for me when I was leveling Monk.)

If you want to boost your damage a bit, look into moldative earring. +4 magic attack bonus, I think it is. I don't think you can solo the NM on your RDM, but you could likely duo it with somebody else your level. As others mentioned, after level 51, things look up. I got frustrated with BLM at the levels you're at. Then I got elemental staves and my damage got better, then AF gloves and shaman's cloak and I rarely saw resists, even when casting fire on crabs.

[IfritnoItazura]

You're not exactly leeching. The problem is your static party needs some tweaking or you'll continue to struggle.

PLD, MNK, RNG, THF, RDM, BLM.

Replace the MNK with a BRD and you'd be at a classic 3/3 setup. Replace you as BLM with a BRD or Corsair and you have a TP burn (but your RDM had best be spot on along with your PLD).

Hmm. I always thought BRD + PLD + THF = trouble? Besides, THF's effectiveness before Lv.60 largely depends on someone who can turn the mob on demand, and that is our MNK. ^_^;

Unfortunately, my BRD isn't high enough, and COR is still at Lv.1. Besides, our LS is short on Black Mages, so I don't really want to level another job in place of my BLM.

Before the RNG joined, we did pick up a BRD's and COR's before. I did more damage percentage wise then, but so did everyone else. Having RNG just meant damage output is spread across more people--and actually having a regular SC for me to MB with.

The fact that you're doing 15% of the curing highlights the support problem. This is going to become much worse once you hit the higher levels, since this setup doesn't need nuking for damage.

[...]

I'm not saying your static party is bad... but it seems pretty inefficient.
Maybe I did a poor job of explaining this, but 15% of damage or 15% of cure isn't really the problem; the problem is that my output--that's damage and curing both considered together--doesn't seem "high" enough. At least that's how it feels.

I suppose I should just be content that I provide additional safety via ES + Sleep and Escape, and can annihilate just about any single monster if we have the need (though would have no MP afterwards), on top of the somewhat depressing DD and healing output.

Right now, we chain 4-5's pretty easily; one reason I don't get a lot of MP rest time is because monster die pretty fast. Given that this is an static party from our LS, no one terribly minds the lack of uber efficiency anyway.

Really, I just feel bad I'm not doing more for the party, but at a lost as to the best way to fix the situation.

I see people mentioning Chi Blast a lot. Chi blast isn't very useful in an exp situation, outside of starting to boost up while somebody is afk and hoping they get back before boost wears.
For our party, it's just more damage. We have to compete for pulls often, so there can be lulls between monsters. The MNK boosts between fights, so he often tosses out a Chi Blast before using Provoke to set up SATA for the THF.

Chi Blast helps the monsters to die a little faster--it's good. :thumbsup:

[Tirrock]

THF+PLD+BRD does equal trouble, unless you have a RDM, which you do. The problem is that bards don't get selective ballads that ignore people without MP, despite popular belief by BLUs everywhere. Since the PLD has refresh going for him, he wouldn't have to worry about needing ballad.

[Sodo_Leviathan]

Btw your fighting Bats they really dont take much damage from spells try your best to enfeeb

[Karinya]

You're not exactly leeching. The problem is your static party needs some tweaking or you'll continue to struggle.
PLD, MNK, RNG, THF, RDM, BLM.
Replace the MNK with a BRD and you'd be at a classic 3/3 setup. Replace you as BLM with a BRD or Corsair and you have a TP burn (but your RDM had best be spot on along with your PLD).

My first reaction would be to replace the RNG with a COR. They're almost as good pullers, have some very nice support functions and the party has more damage than it can use anyway (pre-74).

That would leave the MNK and THF in the same SC box at 65+, though. Maybe it'd be better to replace the THF; a good PLD shouldn't need one unless the DDs are exceptionally reckless.

BLU might also be an option; in addition to some job-specific debuffs that stack with the RDM's, they could take up some of the support healing. Their ability to produce more skillchains fits well with a RDM+BLM party, too.

In any case, the point is likely moot; once a static has formed it would be very rude to boot someone because the setup isn't optimal. Unless someone has another job at or near the party's level and is willing to change, you'll probably be limited to adjusting to make what you have work. It's not theoretically perfect, but it's not horrible either.


I have never seen TP burning work before level 74 unless it was on colibris. Nothing else is helpless enough unless everyone has Utsu:Ni. So I would strongly advise against trying to set up a TP burn static unless it is for merit only.

The fact that you're doing 15% of the curing highlights the support problem. This is going to become much worse once you hit the higher levels, since this setup doesn't need nuking for damage.
That's the main problem with the party setup IMO - 4 damage dealers is just too many for anything but very weak mobs, and BLM performs relatively poorly against weak mobs.

The shortage of defensive jobs in your party is why they need you to take up more healing and support responsibilities, but BLM is only mediocre at those roles. Furthermore, half of the debuffs you *do* have duplicate the RDM's; a BRD+BLM can stack Slow and Elegy, but a RDM+BLM can't.

Still, I think both your personal performance and your party's will improve noticeably after 51, so it may be a good idea to hang in there for a few more levels and then reevaluate.
When looking at your numbers, remember you're competing against 3.5 damage dealers (MNK, RNG, THF, plus some extra damage from the PLD) and 2 full time healers (PLD, RDM).
I'm not saying your static party is bad... but it seems pretty inefficient. I wouldn't even try to set up a pickup party with this configuration, let alone a static party.
It wouldn't be my first choice, but a full static has several advantages over a partial one, even aside from the benefit of hanging out with your friends. No time spent looking for a 6th, can camp anywhere without dealing with strangers who don't trust your unorthodox choice of campsite, etc. I think these can go quite a ways to offset the disadvantages of the setup.

And I *definitely* wouldn't set up a pickup party with this configuration unless I was the BLM or knew them well. With 90% of the BLMs in this game that setup would be a disaster waiting to happen. Only a few are even capable of adapting to what the party needs them to do in that setup to make it work.


P.S. If you are using Regen - and you probably should, it's MP efficient and nearly hate free - keep in mind that parsers don't see the amount healed by Regen either. So you're doing more damage *and* more healing than the parser knows about.

[IfritnoItazura]

A little update: It's a Lv.54-52 party now (yes, we go slow), and I'm enjoying BLM more than ever.

Not sure about my damage/curing output, though; been forgetting to turn on the parser in the last few weeks. When I did remember last night, it barfed and lost all my data. :vent:

Last night in Kuftal Tunnel was the first night I attempted to MB with Freeze on a regular basis. Unresisted, the MB results were 1004 when I was Lv.52, and 1026 once I hit Lv.53. (Around 944 at Lv.52 when it is resisted, IIRC.)

It was a little unnerving to see crabs coming after me even after a sucessful SATA Viper Bite, plus Provoke and Flash from Paladin. ^_^; (Good thing it wasn't very often--my BLM take hits worse than a wet paper bag--though I do appreciate the opportunities to use Drain effectively.) I became reacquainted with my good friend, Mr. Blink.

The RDM friend wasn't feeling well, so she logged on to the PLD's char and the regular PLD played RDM. (PLD is less demanding.) So, I ended up doing Barwatera and all the Regen's, since the substitute RDM was a bit overwhelmed. It's a little thing, but made me feel useful. heh.

Not stressing out over my performance anymore; I'd much rather enjoy the company of our little band in the time we have. (Instead, I stress out over gears I can't afford. -_-; )

[Macht]

A little update: It's a Lv.54-52 party now (yes, we go slow), and I'm enjoying BLM more than ever.
Not sure about my damage/curing output, though; been forgetting to turn on the parser in the last few weeks. When I did remember last night, it barfed and lost all my data. :vent:
Last night in Kuftal Tunnel was the first night I attempted to MB with Freeze on a regular basis. Unresisted, the MB results were 1004 when I was Lv.52, and 1026 once I hit Lv.53. (Around 944 at Lv.52 when it is resisted, IIRC.)
It was a little unnerving to see crabs coming after me even after a sucessful SATA Viper Bite, plus Provoke and Flash from Paladin. ^_^; (Good thing it wasn't very often--my BLM take hits worse than a wet paper bag--though I do appreciate the opportunities to use Drain effectively.) I became reacquainted with my good friend, Mr. Blink.
The RDM friend wasn't feeling well, so she logged on to the PLD's char and the regular PLD played RDM. (PLD is less demanding.) So, I ended up doing Barwatera and all the Regen's, since the substitute RDM was a bit overwhelmed. It's a little thing, but made me feel useful. heh.
Not stressing out over my performance anymore; I'd much rather enjoy the company of our little band in the time we have. (Instead, I stress out over gears I can't afford. -_-; )

Thing that has me wondering and a little sad is:

1) RNG/NIN and only got 24% of the overall damage? I mean it sounds like that person was holding back, but why??? They got Utsusemi they should be skipping past that hate line and be closer to the top as the one doing the damage. Yet it seems like the MNK was more likely to be doing that then the RNG??

2) RNG/NIN with a PLD/WAR and THF/NIN in an exp party, that RNG should have a tough time being able to pull hate from those two if done right and should be able to go nuts on damage. Then again also with a PLD and THF the RNG/NIN combo with them is kind of the 'Safe' combo, could of dished out far better damage with a RNG/WAR setup if he could do that.

[IfritnoItazura]

1) RNG/NIN and only got 24% of the overall damage? I mean it sounds like that person was holding back, but why??? They got Utsusemi they should be skipping past that hate line and be closer to the top as the one doing the damage. Yet it seems like the MNK was more likely to be doing that then the RNG??

*shrug* He was new to the party at the time, and was a level or two behind the MNK; we kinda badgered him into joining because people wanted a full party. :biggrin: Maybe he didn't have very good gear then? Perhaps either bow or crossbow was under-skilled?

Our style is to do SC at the beginning of fight, so he saves TP and doesn't spam WS's. Also, he used to stand close to the monsters, which he doesn't do anymore. I think the MNK was at same level as the PLD at the time, if not higher, so no surprise he was the top DD, especially since he gets to spam WS.

better damage with a RNG/WAR setup if he could do that.
The RNG is currently our main puller, so /NIN is handy. I guess he can switch with THF for that role, but I don't think our party really needs more damage capability. heh.

Edit:
The MNK is very well geared--including a Ochiudo's Kote, borrowed from the RNG...

[Macht]

*shrug* He was new to the party at the time, and was a level or two behind the MNK; we kinda badgered him into joining because people wanted a full party. :biggrin: Maybe he didn't have very good gear then? Perhaps either bow or crossbow was under-skilled?
Our style is to do SC at the beginning of fight, so he saves TP and doesn't spam WS's. Also, he used to stand close to the monsters, which he doesn't do anymore. I think the MNK was at same level as the PLD at the time, if not higher, so no surprise he was the top DD, especially since he gets to spam WS.

Ahh, you're killing me conserving WSs for a beggining of the fight SC was a style I do with my RNG/WAR with a good BLM it's insaine. You build TP on one mob then down the next with 1 SC + 1 MB. It was funny because our poor PLD was starting to feel like he wasn't needed for the second mob we downed like that. Of course a beggining of the fight SC with a RNG/WAR is only good with a PLD and THF or a DRK/THF. Otherwise RNG/WAR should stick to being a finisher to polish off that last 1/2 health or so quickly.

It would die before any sort of actual hate control was established, I mean about all the mob would do is look at the PLD and probably hit him once and it was dead. The one were we built TP on though the PLD was handy, then again every 5 min. even the TP build one would go down fairly fast to Barrage...

Anyway though it doesn't seem like you are leeching at all, not with that party setup. With being so Melee heavy healing is needed more and since you are being split to assist heal and MB getting 15% in both damage and healing is good. You are 1 out of the 4.5 doing damage (22%) and 1 out of the 3 that can heal (33%). If you were reaching 20% in damage then the RNG probably would not of been so needed for that party, and if you were doing 33% of the healing then you'd have to wonder what the hell the RDM/WHM is doing since it seems he has taken the position of main healer.