Hornet Needle NM

[hongman]

I am wanting the Hornet Needle Dagger, for my RDM.

What kind of party am I going to need to take it down comfortably?

Also, since I have been using swords since I could (not used Dagger at all) my Dagger skill is only 16 (!!!)

WHat is the best way to skill this up? If I go for EP's, skillups are rare on Sword... does this mean I have to go back to killing very weak mobs to skill the dagger up? Im not sure how this skillup buisiness works, just got told that you only get skillups on DC upwards.

[Haggai]

The wiki on Death from Above (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Death_from_Above) says 3 people level 60, solo at 70.

See this page (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Skill_Ups) to see where to skill up at what level.

[Neomage]

Past level 4, your skill caps at Even Match monsters. Before level 4, It's Decent Challenge. So, if your Dagger Skill is 16, fight monsters in Tahongri Canyon/La Thine/Marshlands. Their way above your cap but your STR and DEX boosts should allow you to get a ton of skillups on them.

[hongman]

Thanks guys

ANd I presume after the skillups slow down, move to Valkrum type areas and then up from there?

[Sabaron]

Yes, when skilling up just pretend you were levelling again. Except this time, you can pick your camp and do odd things. Skilling while hunting an NM is nice. Skilling while acquiring someone's coffer or doing a level cap is fun too. Anything you can combine with it to make it more interesting is worthwhile.

[hongman]

Hmm, shame I cant do this while looking for my Eldieme Coffer :(

On another note, do you think myself and a 70 SMN could duo this?

[Sabaron]

A 70th level RDM can solo it (I did). The bee attacks like a MNK in Hundred Fists mode, so Shadows are basically worthless. However, a bee's attacks, while fast, are very weak so Phalanx/Stoneskin destroys their damage. Shock Spikes add to the fun. I got quite a few stuns on the dumb thing. Shock Spikes > Ice Spikes for my money versus a single mob. Versus multiple mobs in quick sequence, Ice Spikes is usually more mp-conservative since it can paralyze 2-3 monsters per application. Kill the Wespes because they'll link (there are two of them). If you are low enough level to get aggro from the doll that lives in there, you'll have to kill it or pull DFA to the far end of the room. No AoE, keep debuffs and buffs up. Don't bother with shadows unless you have Ni (which you don't afaik). Since you're lower level, you'll probably be letting the avatar tank which is not good necessarily because of the hideous speed at which it will kill the avatar. I would recommend taking a tank as opposed to a SMN for this battle. SMN kiting can do a lot, but you don't have too much room (some of the Tons usually Harriers will aggro a 71 if you get a big one). For my money, I'd rather have a tank than a SMN for this. It could be workable though provided the SMN can get enough distance between him and carby before carby dies (and he will die quickly).

[hongman]

Thanks Sab...I will get a proper tank/higher level for this then - lucky as I was going to go for it last night with the summoner, but we both just invites within 10mins of each other and decided we wanted to party more. Phew.

[Murphie]

I had a 75 WHM/NIN tank it for me. She kicked it's ass and I barely had to do much of anything.

[hongman]

Thanks Murphie

Hows things with you?

[WishMaster3K]

Nice icon Murphie. DfA was probably the easiest NM I ever fought.

I was RDM/WAR, so with Defender, Phalanx and Protect, I didn't even need Stoneskin.

Also, nothing in that room aggroed me at 75. DfA attacks as if it has the stats of the Hornetneedle, meaning fast but slow.

It also has EnPoison.

But all in all, it's a weak monster. In fact, I think Blaze Spikes did most of the damage. Short fight, and it didn't do Final Sting. Pollen cured like 2k or something, so it was just annoying.

Anyway, that's all you need to know. Bees are jokes.

[Murphie]

Thanks. I've got tons of 'em.

And yeah, mine didn't use Final Sting either. Really, the fight was over so fast that it wasn't worth remembering. The hard part was getting the damn larvae to spawn him in the first place. That took weeks for me.

[tdh]

I was told DfA was highly annoying. That once it got down to 30%HP, it would spam 1500+ Pollens. So the trick was to just destroy it, and destroy it quick!

We had a group down there to do the DRG AF3, so we did DfA for me. With DRG60, DRK65, NIN75, 2 WAR75s, and 2 THF75s, the thing didn't live long enough to have a chance at Pollen. HUGE overkill, but hey, I got my Horny! ^^

[Sabaron]

Yes, the larva, I must say is the hardest part. I would hunt the Wespes on the map where DFA spawns. There are rumors of drops from Wespes on the Coffer map, but if they prove false (or if the drop rate is horribly low) you're going to be wasting time. For me, Shock Spikes did tons of damage. I realize that Blaze Spikes do more damage, but the Stun effect gives you a bit of room and I did this as a 71 RDM/BLU rather than a 75. His damage through Phalanx was low, on the order of 10-15 damage, so not terribly bothersome nor in general enough to interrupt my Stoneskin recast. I only used one Blue Magic spell, Cocoon, and WAR would probably be a better sub but I do not have it and frankly, Blue Mage is my second favorite class after RDM since the two are so similar and I just really enjoy the spells especially the little sound that Wild Carrot makes for some reason. Cocoon is now and always has been my favorite Blue Mage spell especially for sub job. The defensive bonus is simply astounding and so cheap. The short duration doesn't bother me a bit and it casts very quickly.

Other things I like about /BLU:

Tailored Stat bonuses--these can be a bit limited but I've found the ones available fit RDM quite nicely especially for solo.
Clear Mind from Poison Breath/Soporific
Auto-regen from Sheep Song/Healing Breeze
Healing Breeze.
2x Sleepga (Sheep Song/Soporific) and an extra Sleep (Pinecone Bomb): They may be gimped, but so very very nice just the same especially against lower level mobs and shadows.

[IfritnoItazura]

Other things I like about /BLU:

Tailored Stat bonuses--these can be a bit limited but I've found the ones available fit RDM quite nicely especially for solo.
Clear Mind from Poison Breath/Soporific
Auto-regen from Sheep Song/Healing Breeze
Healing Breeze.
2x Sleepga (Sheep Song/Soporific) and an extra Sleep (Pinecone Bomb): They may be gimped, but so very very nice just the same especially against lower level mobs and shadows.

RDM has Clear Mind at Lv.31; Auto-Regen is available from /WHM25 (I think), though it is accessible at lower level from /BLU16.

No sure about sleepga from Sheep Song/Soporific, but wouldn't Sandspin be better for for shadow stripping, since it only costs 10 MP? (Why would a RDM using Stoneskin, Phalanx, and Ice Spikes need to sleega lower level monsters, anyway?)

[Sabaron]

Like I said, I didn't use them. Sandspin is good for stripping shadows (I use it for that), and I generally have it in my reportoire. The low-level Sleepgas work when farming Tonberries of not-so-low level--the fact that there are two castings of BLU Sleepga gives you a better chance of a stick and since we're talking about multiple mobs most of the time, it's nice to have two. I have had good results with EP/DC/EM of varying degrees. Sleepga Shadow Stripping is primarily used when you are dealing with multiples. Tonberry adds are quite frequent. I use multiple Sleepgas to do crowd control on rooms with large numbers of Tonberries. Lead with BLU Sleepgas, pick off stragglers. We've been playing in the temple a lot recently picking up basically every valuable item in there except for Thief's Knife of course, and we underestimated the ubersapling, Yallery Brown.

I forgot about the non-overwriting Clear Mind...meh... I suppose I've been wasting a slot. I remember thinking "Whoa! Clear Mind! Why wasn't I using that before?" Now I remember why.

Yes, /WHM gets Auto-Regen. I don't like /WHM. It is very useful, but I only sub it when I have to--It makes me more of a skipping pansy-picker. It doesn't have Cocoon, Bludgeon (which still does nice damage especially against pots and undead), Sleepga (of any kind), or any of the unusual debuffs and spells that /BLU gives--most of which I like even if they're not as useful. Head Butt may not stun reliably, but it always does Knockback unless you get the rare full resist (rare in EM- range). Sandspin's Acc- is also nice. Most battles where appropriate, I use a combination of Sandspin, Battle Dance, Wild Oats, and Poison Breath. Poison Breath still does relatively nice damage, but the resists are pretty frequent and it ends up being not nearly as good as the native nukes, but I still use it occasionally.

[hongman]

So is the Hornet a 100% drop?

Meh, im not about to pay for help on this one, so I think ill just wait till a higher lvl in my LS comes in on a helping spree or wait till Im high enough to duo it with someone, w/e.

Lvling BLM sub now and so far I am good till I am lvl 60, but since I have got this far I think Ill take a nother week off lvling RDM and get BLM to 37 - get it out of the way.

Thanks for the input!

[Mhurron]

Looking at the Hornet Needle, personally I waited until 65 and went to go get Garuda's dagger.

[Murphie]

So is the Hornet a 100% drop?

Meh, im not about to pay for help on this one, so I think ill just wait till a higher lvl in my LS comes in on a helping spree or wait till Im high enough to duo it with someone, w/e.

Lvling BLM sub now and so far I am good till I am lvl 60, but since I have got this far I think Ill take a nother week off lvling RDM and get BLM to 37 - get it out of the way.

Thanks for the input!Yes. The dagger drop isn't the hard part at all. It's the Bee Larvae that you have to farm from the bees there. If you have a THF friend it may be easier, but if you're soloing them (which you're not quite ready for) it can take a while.

I leveled my sword skill and my NPC on bees for quite a while.

[hongman]

Aha, nearly overlooked the Larvae...

Non-the-less, like I said, Im not desperate for it, just a nice to have. Ill just wait until some bored 75 in my LS hops on and then bag em XD

[Sabaron]

Hornetneedle is easier to get, and it's 28% faster. Hornetneedle is the #1 dagger for skillup alongside Beestinger if you can get it to produce 1+ physical damage consistently. No dagger is faster than these two (both 150 Delay and one of the fastest weapons in the game with Beestinger (150) and Sirocco Kukri (150 THF only). I got my HN for soloing fun and for skillup and Enspell damage.

Comparatively speaking, Hornetneedle will always outdamage Garuda's Dagger in terms of DPS disregarding Enspell Damage. Hornetneedle is the best dagger in the game for RDM until Blau Dolch and Mandau. The base DPS for HN is 6.4d/s and Garuda's is 6.23. The gap widens quickly when you apply an enspell. The Garuda's DPS is unmodified byt the attack (I didn't bother) because the progressive Enspell effect is much more significant than +7 attack. The Silence effect is notable, but only versus casting mobs.

[nickofearth]

Deathfromabove NM can be soloed easily by a 75 RDM. I did it once on my RDM, and once solo for a friend on my 75DRG/mage(stoneskined up and never had to really "heal myself with a healing breath III.) Really he is not that hard to kill.

On a side note, blu spells are based on weapon skill IRC so they are still quite potent /blu.