Merit Group 3

[Toksyuryel]

Here's an idea- how about a new "Super Ability" for every job, obtainable as a merit purchase. My idea is that one would have to do a quest from the Nomad Moogle in Ru'Lude Gardens in order to earn the right to purchase the ability (a different quest for every job) and then the ability itself would cost 10 points. However, this ability would be extremely powerful, much more so than the 2hr abilities. And it would have a 24 hour recast time that NOTHING could reset (not revitalizer, not wild card, nothing). These abilities should be nothing short of spectacular. One example could be allowing a DRG to actually turn into a wyvern (like the guy at the end of the DRG quest, except not evil). Anyone else got any ideas?

[Haggai]

I've always loved the idea of having a super powerful 24 hour ability. It would be fun to play around with at the very least. I'd just like the ability to use both job/subjob 2hrs at the same time. Set it on a 24 hour timer.

Some potentially powerful options:
Manafont & Chainspell
Mighty Strikes & Hundred Fists
Azure Lore & Manafont
Azure Lore & Chainspell
Invincible & Benediction - for BIG hate grab
Mijin Gakure & Benediction
Benediction & Perfect Dodge - for Dunes parties, lol

[Neomage]

Hmm.... how about... no.

As much as I like that idea, it would be way to broken to work. I understand the function of such an item in a single player game, but if you really want to have SE consider this idea, it needs to be balanced(which it's [currently] not) . Not just among the 18 jobs, but among monters to. Imagine, just imagine, if you got this OMGWTFPWNZORZ!!11!1one11!1elevety-one1!1! ability, and you cleared Chains of Promathia missions or Waking the Beast or somsuch super hard mission/quest. You would be thrilled, right? Now, what if you already completed Waking the Beast, or Promathia missions, and spent months upon months in a static farming, testing new stragities, ect. to finally get sea acess. And all of a sudden everyone and their mother powers through CoP with their OMGWTF abilities. People where pretty mad when SE just changed the first 3 Promyvions to make it easier.

[Akashimo]

How about just the option to use your subs two hour instead of your main with the same limitations on the timer but with 3 hour recast? Other than soloing, MG and extreme kiting.... PD is kind of collecting dust for me =x

[Haggai]

Hmm.... how about... no.

As much as I like that idea, it would be way to broken to work. I understand the function of such an item in a single player game, but if you really want to have SE consider this idea, it needs to be balanced(which it's [currently] not) . Not just among the 18 jobs, but among monters to. Imagine, just imagine, if you got this OMGWTFPWNZORZ!!11!1one11!1elevety-one1!1! ability, and you cleared Chains of Promathia missions or Waking the Beast or somsuch super hard mission/quest. You would be thrilled, right? Now, what if you already completed Waking the Beast, or Promathia missions, and spent months upon months in a static farming, testing new stragities, ect. to finally get sea acess. And all of a sudden everyone and their mother powers through CoP with their OMGWTF abilities. People where pretty mad when SE just changed the first 3 Promyvions to make it easier.


Good point. Let's just have special rules for Ballista/Brenner in an Abdhaljs zone only where you can use your sub's 2hr. That would be neato.

[Neomage]

now THAT works for me. I wouldn't mind having Chainspell instead of Manafont even if I had to wait an extra hour to use it. If I was subbing WHM though I might keep Manafont >.>

Their are a few flaws in this, such as a WAR/MNK with Great Axe using Hundred Fists, but overall it seem much more doable then a end-all 24 hour move.

[Akashimo]

SATAAC Berserk Warcry, Mighty Strikes - Evisceration.... no way a tank could loose hate from that @.@; lol

Speaking of flaws, Spirit Surge would be useless for /drg unless they give balanced or defensive as the subbed wyvern.

[LilithAngel]

Speaking of flaws, Spirit Surge would be useless for /drg unless they give balanced or defensive as the subbed wyvern.

That being the case, if other jobs would be given access to the wyvern from /drg, the most 'gimped' option SE choose would be the Offensive wyvern, as it has no abilities other than to use Elemental Breath triggered by use of a WS (and a pretty weak E. Breath at that, too). I say gimped because there is a trend amongst jobs whose abilities lose anywhere from some to quite-a-bit of effectiveness when subbed (e.g. Utsusemi, Meditate, /mage MP pools, various combat and magic skills etc.). I would see Dragoon as being no different in this hypothetical situation. The balanced or defensive wyverns have too much utility on thier own to be allowed to other jobs; offensive is pretty much the stripped-down, bare-bones generic wyvern.

Now, as far as 24-hour abilities, it's an interesting concept, but it prolly would be too game-breaking (even on a once a day timer) unless very carefully implimented. Certain jobs in this game already enjoy quite an advantage over others in thier field because of just the normal, 'everyday' abilities they already possess. These abilities would definately need to be not only impressive, but also incredibly balanced (in regards to other jobs, not the game itself).

For example, Paladins could gain an ability in which they not only become immune to *all* forms of damage (absolutely no matter what, how, why, or where it comes from), but would, in fact, *Reflect* all of that damage back to its source in full, or Blue Mages actually *become* a member of a monster family, gaining full access to all of that monster's abilities and such (to include increased stats, HP, MP, nullifying level differences, and so on, in essence becomeing an NM of sorts themselves). White Mages could just become a bastion of healing magic, exuding an extremly powerful Regen aura, granting incredible HP/tick healing to the party, and boosting Defence and Resistances by wide margins, while Black Mages could gain access to the highest possible tiers of black magic that exists in the game (tier V or higher single targets and -agas, as well as AM3 or higher, all completely unresistable; basically becoming Shantotto Jr.).

Heh, mebbie Beastmasters could even be able to call up NMs with thier 24. Imagine having something like Tiamat or perhaps even a Jailer or two back you up when things *really* get out of control (of course, if you ended up in a situation where you need the help of a powerful NM like that to get you out, then you prolly shouldn't have been in it in the first place lol).

Yeah, it's nice to dream, isn't it? Mebbie some day...

[Toksyuryel]

No need to worry about this becoming a problem for CoP missions prior to chapter 8 at the least- merit abilities are only available at level 75, if your level is capped or otherwise lowered you can't use them. I can certainly see the concerns but I also think that SE is capable of pulling it off. I got an even better idea for how the quests could be though.

I've been thinking that the quest to unlock the ultimate job ability could come at the end of a long series that involves "breaking your limits". It would go something like this, after capping your combo total for both group 1 and group 2 you would talk to the nomad moogle and he'd have a quest for you (each job gets different quests, and they should have some kind of job story going on, as you work towards breaking that job's limits). Clearing that quest would increase your combo total max for both group 1 and group 2 abilities. Once they have been capped again, the moogle will have another quest for you (again, specific to your job and a continuation of the previous quest) and clearing it will again increase your combo total max for both groups. This would continue until your combo total max is at the point that you are able to max out every single job specific merit ability (thus reaching your apparent limit). Once you have maxed everything, the moogle will give you the quest for unlocking the ultimate job ability. I can see this being released over a series of updates, one limit at a time. 18 jobs, so 18 quests per limit, would basically require that it be released in such a way so as to not overload them. Supposing there are 5 limit quests prior to the one that unlocks the ultimate JA (they seem to like that number), that gives them over a year to think about how to balence the super abilities.

And, these quests wouldn't exactly be easy. They should be extremely, extremely difficult, to fit with the reward of breaking your character's final limits.

But those are my thoughts.

[LilithAngel]

So basically SE goes through a very convoluted method of raising the level cap to around 90 or so. Heh, very sneaky way to go about it, I would say. That, and it would be fairly interesting to see what kinds of quests each job would get (and the assoicated storylines; I would imagine it would be some sort of continuation of each jobs' AF story in some way). Regardless, the quests would be very long, involved, and, needless to say, hard (I could imagine the Dragoon Final Limit quests would somehow involve Bahamut and his flock of CoP wyrms).

Oh, and concerning merits before 75: the Job Abilities/Spells purchased through merits aren't availiable if you're in a level capped zone, but everything else (HP/MP Max, Base Ability increases, /recast timers, Combat/Magic/Others) is, albeit in smaller increments depending on the cap.

[IfritnoItazura]

Oh, and concerning merits before 75: the Job Abilities/Spells purchased through merits aren't availiable if you're in a level capped zone, but everything else (HP/MP Max, Base Ability increases, /recast timers, Combat/Magic/Others) is, albeit in smaller increments depending on the cap.

Not exactly true; according to FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Merit):
Upgrades in the [job specific] categories are in effect only when the specified job is the player's main job and when it is level 75. They become inactive if the player delevels to 74.

So, Sword skill and Evasion skill upgrades will be available on any job and at lower levels, but items such as Ice Magic Accuracy is limited only to RDM75, Elemental Seal Recast (timer reduction) is limited to BLM75, and etc.

[LilithAngel]

Meh, a minor oversight on my part, my bad. For some reason I was thinking the G1 merits carried over to level capped zones the same way the General ones did. Oh well, it'd be nice if they did.

[Toksyuryel]

And as this idea would ONLY affect job-specific merits, I can't see it becoming an issue in any level capped situation. There are, of course, other concerns... but I'm sure they can be worked out, somehow^^ I like your idea to do a continuation of the AF stories. I would especially like to see the conclusion to the BLM AF story... they kinda left us hanging there.

[LilithAngel]

Yeah they did (for BLM AF). I would think that to gain your Final Limit ability for BLM, the series of quests would pick up with Shantotto's experiment (somehow involving you, of course), and end with you facing off against her in a one-on-one magic duel (for some reason), the winner of which would be recognized far and wide across Vana'diel as The Ultimate Black Mage or some other such nice title.

Similar titles and epic fights would await each of the other jobs. I would think that the similarity for each job would be a one-on-one duel with the NPC epitomie of that job, sort of like a Super Maat in a sense, but instead going against *the* undisputed master of that job (i.e. Shantotto for BLM, Epuracion for Dragoon, and so on) for the right to use the Final Limit ability. It could be a friendly duel to see who really is the best, or an outright rivalry; either way, it has to be epic, astounding, and just downright badass.

Oh, and one more thing: I would have to say that there should be a limit to the number of jobs that one can get to Final Limit stage (say, for example, one could only get 3 or so jobs to FL, or maybe even just one job, so that the player would really have to think carfully about which job they are completely dedicating themselves to). Also, only one FL series should be open at a time, should there be more than one doable allowed. Something as grand, epic, and attention-demanding as this should stand out.

[eticket109]

I like the idea at its core but it would be way too difficult to balance.

I hope they finish implementing everything (Relic armor, Tier II merits) for the new jobs before they add even more stuff for the others.

[Lmnop]

that whole merit upgrade method would be interesting, when you look at it from the perspective of "leveling up." As long as a max level character is immune to level 5 petrify, I'm happy >.<

Ideally, if something like this were implemented, the final battles may be hard, but not require full alliances. Who's gonna want to kill a Hydra for a silly DRG's ultimate let down of a JA? Actually, I think it should end on a 1v1 but with Subjobs available.

I think it'd be great if every job had an encounter that was fabricated in a way to be beatable only by odd means. I.e. blm/thf, drk/whm. the Warrior one could change damage vulnerabilities (requiring so much piercing damage to be dealt before switching over to bludgeoning, and so forth) to be beatable only by warriors with multiple weapons capped. Oh, and Rdms would totally fight something immune to bind/gravity/sleep. Straight tank ftw.

[Akashimo]

Idea for odd means does sound good, but, people would most likely go for what they do for hnms, dynamis, ect. I wouldn't mind seeing a Job-spefic bcnm that can only enter by certain main/sub combos to unlock theses. Like a new Maat, version 2. At the same time, the oppenet is an exact copy of your char, stats, skills, armor, ja, jt. But it is only coppied the moment you engage.

[Legal Fish]

I don't know if there is any really good reasoning for Merit Group 3, I rather see the following:

-Kind of ridiculous they didn't do this yet... increase the cap of Merit Group 2 to 5 single / 10 total.

-The strength of Job Merit Group 1 merits increased greatly. For example, Elemental Seal being able to drop to 5 minutes, among many, many others. Pretty much every single timer one needs some sort of improvement.

-A few merits in Job Merit Group 2 simply are bad compared to others, and are not even situationally good. I'd like it if they boosted some and reimagined others entirely. BRD's for example.

-Allow the cap for Stat and Skill merits to raise when new Genkei-type quests are completed. These quests are especially hard to complete and for the first year of their existence they will be quite exclusive, but as the game progresses opens up to more players, just like the original Genkeis.

-For Job Merit Group 2, when a merit is capped at 5 you gain a powerful trait that helps out with that ability(or something related), mostly to encourage players not to "dip" and be unique from others like Merits were intended to be. Examples would be something like adding "Slow % up" when having full Slow II merits or full Tomahawk giving Accuracy Bonus when using Axes. A lot of options open up here for creativity.