Cor Or More(Cor advice plz ^^) [Archive] - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel

Omgwtfbbqkitten

02-03-2007, 11:09 PM

/WHM is limited and there's not much MP to work with from the start. You can get around this somewhat by using pie and MP gear and that's fine before 30. But after 30, you're going to have access to some nice ranged accuracy gear in the Noct armor set and Archer's Knives at 28. You're also going to need accuracy rings..

Some of this gear is going to cut off MP options for you - like Astral rings - which is going to hurt your performance with /WHM and if you use that MP gear instead of accuracy, your DD is going to suffer. Not to mention the lost MP if you choose to macro both in and out.

COR sword/dagger melee purely for TP ends right at 22 when you start getting worthwhile bullets. Guns will be your primary source of TP and damage. For this purpose, /NIN and /RNG are going to serve you better than /WHM. RNG gets the Accuracy Bonus Traits and Sharpshot, NIN gives you Dual Wield for those +ranged accuracy daggers, not to mention Utsusemi after 24.

At 40, you're going to want to start looking at AGI gear to help your Quick Draw accuracy (basically it lowers resists) and macro it in, yet again causing some problems for MP gear and at this point, you're really going to want to consider foods that benefit both your ranged accuracy and AGI bonuses, such as Squid Sushi.

Without this gear and even with merits, as /WHM your DD will suffer a bit and if you opt to go with the melee gear as /WHM, your MP and additional support ability will suffer.

COR is not always expected to pull, but is often invited to do so. Before 70-ish, you're also invited to DD a bit. Yet again, for these purposes, /NIN and /RNG respectively outshine /WHM. And if you're going to pull and Stage fights with Light Shot (Pulling and sleeping in the fashion BRDs do) at 55+ (which is a possible), you're going to want to look into /NIN rather seriously. /NIN is a must at 72+ since that's where you get Peacemaker, which is the lowest delay gun in the game.

To me, /WHM is honestly more of a mission/BC/endgame subjob. For the EXP levels, you need little more than /RNG and /NIN. /WHM is useful in some situations, but since this is a support class with respectable DD for many levels pre-70, /WHM shouldn't be your one and only subjob. Only PTs I've even known to ask a COR for /WHM are (1) JP PTs and (2) Uninformed PT Leaders who think COR is just like a BRD, which isn't exactly the case.

Bullets are costly, Spider-Dan estimated 2.1 million for all levels, I believe, but that will vary by subjob, style of play and server prices. Cards are roughly 5k a stack each if you buy them from NPC. Additionally, if you're looking to save a little on bullets 22-49, seek out an NPC named Shiny Teeth in Rabao, there's also an NPC in Metalworks that sells them if I'm not mistaken.

Bullets, cards, subjobs and all things considered, COR is a rather costly to maintain and prepare. Its not for the faint of wallet. NIN and RNG also see high expense, RNG is a little more expensive and NIN is dead even or right behind COR on career expenses.

I realize you probably came here just to hear someone say what you want to hear, but /WHM 1-75 is not the best or even the second best subjob. Parties may not care what you sub as they're shallow enough to just see us as "refreshers", but when you hit the higher levels, /WHM just won't be enough.

IfritnoItazura

02-03-2007, 11:45 PM

From the rather limited perspective of a "support role job" player (RDM67, BRD30), I would say COR/WHM looks like the "safe" combination.

It would not be optimal for all parties, but the a COR/WHM setup vs a more DD orientated COR/NIN or COR/RNG only penalize the party with a little less damage output. On the other hand, a COR/WHM can provide support healing and status removal, which can be of invaluable assistance depending on the party setup and camp.

In my view, you have to weight carefully the party safety and utility offered by /WHM with the increase in damage potential of /RNG and personal safety of /NIN. In that light, I would say less can go wrong with picking /WHM, especially when you're not sure about the party and/or the camp.

While BRD and COR are very different, and different in ways I do not fully understand, I do know that the RDM/WHM main healer will really appreciate a well timed Curaga and assistance with status removal after an AoE attack/enfeeb, whether it's from BRD/WHM, or COR/WHM (or even DRK/WHM).

Omgwtfbbqkitten

02-04-2007, 12:58 AM

It would not be optimal for all parties, but the a COR/WHM setup vs a more DD orientated COR/NIN or COR/RNG only penalize the party with a little less damage output. On the other hand, a COR/WHM can provide support healing and status removal, which can be of invaluable assistance depending on the party setup and camp.

To even do support healing/status in an optimal fashion, COR would have to give up much Ranged Accuracy gear or AGI to pull if off. BRD at 40+ has access to a lot of MP and CHR options for their job and really don't have to macro out MP gear slots at the rate COR eventually would by the same level. Head and Back Slot would be about the only ones not seeing perpetual gear swaps, so maybe Opo Crown.

Otherwise, all you have to offer is a couple cures and status removals before taking a knee. One Curaga II would devour your MP if you didn't gear for a bit of MP use.

With BRD macros and Gear swapping, its all very minimal. They don't have to swap earrings, ring macros are optional. Instruments and Staves get swapped a bit, as may +wind, +singing skill gear. But COR has a lot more going on in the ear, ring, feet, back and waist slots in the long run. Not to mention bullets, cards and potentially even ninja tools in the inventory.

The other downside is that if you did go /WHM and are doing a four buff rotation, you have two minutes at least where the COR isn't getting any refresh to WHM subjob. Things like sanction refresh could help a little with that, but that's the best it would ever get for COR unless he wanted to pack juice, too (space is very tight on COR, I couldn't see it as practical). It would work in alliance play with a mage PT since you wouldn't really go beyond a two buff rotation, but for any other setup, the buff rotation would be a little more demanding.

IfritnoItazura

02-04-2007, 02:05 AM

Let's look at it from a slightly different angle: When and how will a COR/WHM use MP?

Try this party:

Tank
DD#1
DD#2
COR/WHM
RDM/?
WHM/BLM

Obviously, cures should be well covered between the WHM and the RDM, and the COR/WHM only need to help with status removal if the RDM isn't using /WHM. So, we can safely assume the COR's MP usage will be low. In that case, MP pool or recovery for COR isn't a big issue--he can leave the MP gear in the Mog House. (Probably even the /WHM, in most cases.)

Then, how about:

Tank
DD#1
DD#2
DD#3
COR/?
RDM/WHM

If I'm the RDM, I'd demand the COR or someone else go as /WHM. And, the COR/WHM will get Refresh, on top of the half time Evoker's Roll. Sure, the COR in this party will need to cure a lot more, but he'll also have a RDM to help sustain the MP refill.

Moreover, I would expect the COR/WHM to rest for MP instead of just shooting continuously; with three DD's in party, adding more damage is unlikely the best way for that COR to contribute to the party.

* * *

It's true that packing a lot of MP gear will be detrimental to a COR's DD performance simply for space reason--I'm in complete agreement here. What I would point out is that gimping a COR's DD output for MP performance may actually be good for the party, depending on the party setup and camp.

When a COR/WHM is expected to do more than occasional cure and help out with status removal, he should be able to get Refresh or Ballad as well. And, in those situation, it's likely a party with a weak backline and a strong frontline, so it's perfectly fine to rest for a tick or two of MP instead of shooting bullets.

Even if there's no additional refresh in the party--say, WHM and COR for backline only--there would be even more incentive for a COR to sub /WHM to help out, wouldn't you say? At least, it would make more sense than to ask a DD to go as /WHM.

There is no dispute a COR can contribute meaningfully on the DD front, but if the party needs another /WHM, it might as well be on COR, I think--even if it means trading a few R.Acc gear for MP gear. (Well, if I have a JP DRK, I may ask for DRK/WHM--at least, before DRK's get their big WS's.)

Omgwtfbbqkitten

02-04-2007, 08:53 AM

Let's look at it from a slightly different angle: When and how will a COR/WHM use MP?

I don't have to look at it from different angles. I apply my knowledge based on BRD, RNG and COR experience. I've also functioned as a RDM main healer.

Status Cures are a glaringly obvious function from /WHM for any seasoned player. But again while nice for certain spots, particularly where mob spam status ailments. However, those mobs aren't common to EXP on anymore and by the time the OP is at the level he'd be seeing more liberal use of it the COR would instead be expected to pull. The current trend of EXP steers us away from a lot of status spam mobs from 1-72.

All you're doing for the OP here is giving him exactly what he wants to hear. He wants an excuse to get out of levelling other subjobs, he stated as such in a previous thread. That's no better than your scenario main healer RDM trying to get by on a BLM sub to 75.

Addtionally, since a COR DDs for a majority of their levels, resting for MP is detrimental to that function, especially where Slug Shot is concerned. COR is indeed invited to DD in the intermediate levels and does it very respectably, they're invited to pull as well at times and very much invited to pull at high level.

As far as RDM main heal goes, if you'd "demand" COR to sub /WHM sub to back you, I'd have to question your skill as a main healer RDM. You have Refresh, Evoker's Roll and Healer's Roll going for you at 41+. That's a lot of MP recovery before you even factor in things like Vermy Cloak, Dark Staff or Cookies (juice notwithstanding since it doesn't stack with Refresh). If you can't manage status cures with the MP gain you have at that point, I honestly don't know what to tell you.

Favoring an MP gear/100 percent support approach would be detrimental to PT killing speed in intermediate leves, which people honestly care more about. COR doesn't have to DD at high level because they're constantly pulling at sleeping mobs to stage fights and by that time, the main DD classes have surpassed them in damage. Not so pre-70, the COR can still contribute quite respectbly.

Jethreal

02-05-2007, 07:29 AM

Hi-o Galaxia,

When I started Cor, I kinda went through the same questions you are. I had WHM @ 42 and had not started either NIN or RNG.

That said, after reading different forums and doing a few /sea all COR, I took nin to 20 and rng to 32 (gotta finish that soon). In my search comments I used to put /rng or /whm available. And in my meager 63 levs of Cor, I have never, not once, been asked to /whm in a exp pt. Occasionaly for missions/quests but that was more beacuse I'd need sneak/invis versus anything else.

Also as BBQ said, our MP is horrid. It would be my reccommendation that if you're looking to the support/healer roll that you take up Bard, as a Cor I'm invited to: refresh the mages, enhance the mellee, and contribute damage for the kill.

see you in-game

As for costs, man have I spent Gil. I go through at least 1/2 stack of 12 pouches of Iron Bullets per lev (120K average), most of our AF is NPC crafted, not quested (and expensive at that). On the positive side, I have learned to raise money and it doesn't hurt that my cooking is at 89. Further I have actually had to refuse parties because I didn't have the cash to buy ammo, and once some guys bought me some so I could go (ty, you know who you are).

Omgwtfbbqkitten

02-05-2007, 09:24 AM

Yeah forgot about the AF, it cost me 800k back when it had just been recently added. But even though the cost was huge, its probably one of the few AFs that can last you to 72 or even 75 until you get the Assault Points for Pahluwhan gear.

There's also the matter of getting things like a Peacock Charm. You could go with Spectacles later on, I suppose, but Peacock Charm helps a great deal overall. The /RNG latent gear - the "Beater" pieces at 30 are also very nice for improving performance and the Genin Earring (a /NIN latent) is also nice for Quick Draw.

The Uggligteiph Pendant is practical for /WHM and Moldivite Earring is also worth persueing. These can raise your QD damage, though your main damage is still with gun DoT and Slug Shot at that point.

I'd honestly say that through the levelling phase COR actually cost me more interms of gear than RNG did since RNG can get their hands of more Rare/Ex gear. Well, unless you have the funds for Eurytos' Bow at 55, then RNG is more expensive. But the really nice thing about both COR and RNG is that the Noct set will last you well over 20 levels until you get AF. Jaridah hands and legs are also very nice for many levels beyond 55.

So when you do/RNG sub, you can get a lot of COR gear done early as well since you'll just reuse that set. I'd highly recommend the HQ set, though.

Getting RNG to 37 at least won't break anyone's bank too badly, think it ran me 500k in all and I BCed for my P Charm. My ammo expenses were only high because I chose to rotate gun, Bow and Xbow. I'd suggest talking RNG to 40/41 for its BCNM and CoP potential for those levels, though.

IfritnoItazura

02-05-2007, 06:20 PM

All you're doing for the OP here is giving him exactly what he wants to hear. He wants an excuse to get out of levelling other subjobs, he stated as such in a previous thread. That's no better than your scenario main healer RDM trying to get by on a BLM sub to 75.

And, all you're doing is picking on what you don't like to hear. This is what I actually said wrote about /WHM: "It would not be optimal for all parties". I said this in several ways, too, IIRC.

Yet, it's a disservice imply COR/WHM doesn't work, when the combo obviously gets invites and performs usefully in party for large number of levels.

And, just to be clear: Yes, I believe in leveling all major support jobs, for any main job. On the record, that list includes /RNG and /NIN for COR.

That's no better than your scenario main healer RDM trying to get by on a BLM sub to 75.

??? I don't quite remember this; point it out for me? (I mostly party on RDM/WHM, BTW.)

Addtionally, since a COR DDs for a majority of their levels, resting for MP is detrimental to that function

No question resting is bad for a COR's DD performance; the question is exactly how important is it for a COR to add damage when it's a frontline heavy party?

Support job is situational, and I think /WHM can be the most useful in some situations for COR. Can one always avoid those situations? Sure, if one always takes lead and forms the parties appropriately. Then, the converse is always true as well--one can always form a party so /WHM is more useful than a DD support job.

As far as RDM main heal goes, if you'd "demand" COR to sub /WHM sub to back you, I'd have to question your skill as a main healer RDM. You have Refresh, Evoker's Roll and Healer's Roll going for you at 41+. That's a lot of MP recovery before you even factor in things like Vermy Cloak, Dark Staff or Cookies (juice notwithstanding since it doesn't stack with Refresh). If you can't manage status cures with the MP gain you have at that point, I honestly don't know what to tell you.

I do feel insecure if I'm the only /WHM in the party; maybe it is a lack of skills. I'll get back to you once I am able to afford a Vermillion Clock and find a COR to level with.:rofl: (Don't know why, but COR's are very rare whenever I'm looking for exp parties.)

* * *

For the most part, I agree with Omgwtfbbqkitten on what COR can and should do in parties, but I maintain /WHM does work (though usually not the optimal choice). More importantly, there are people who enjoy that combination, and can perform to parties' expectations on it.

Gear choice (and space limits for gears) and food choice are more the limiting factors on a COR's damage output than the support job chosen. However, /WHM can significantly add to a COR's ability to better support the party, which no gear or food can match.

* * *

Kinda off topic..

For the brave few who have tried pulling on COR/WHM:

Is Dia useful for pulling?

Necropolis

02-05-2007, 06:58 PM

While I'm not a main Cor I've partied with several Cors on my way to 75 and I think that no matter the sub-job you can perform well.

I would have to say the only Cor that has ever struck me as impressive was a JP COR/WHM that would hit statis removing spells before they even landed and would place well time Curagas through out the entire battle. He had very minimal MP gear on, never rested and substained his MP through evoker's role alone.

I think it depends more on your playstyle than someone who has leveled cor and thinks that is the only way to play it. Most jobs, and especially support jobs, in this game are very versatile in the way they can be played. And seeing as this is a game you should play the way you prefer most of the time as long as others are not suffering a great deal in return.

I don't think a large about of MP gear would be required to play cor/whm, I would think 150-250ish MP would be sufficient for some statis removal and a few curaga to help a whm out every now and then.

And for pulling as cor/whm I would think it depended on what you were pulling. In most cases I believe that stoneskin is equivitable to Utsusemi as long as what you are pulling is not hitting for very high damage for the few hits you are taking back to camp. Could even be better than Utsusemi as stoneskin just doesn't go away after 3 hits. Could even use a earth staff/jelly ring combo on pulling to have it last a little longer.

But I would have at least rng and maybe nin leveled to sub as well, as long as you enjoy playing with those subjobs.

***

To Itazura:

I've pulled on blu/whm with dia before, it's ok because it's fairly quick, but a pain in the ass if the mob might need to be slept once you get to camp

Omgwtfbbqkitten

02-05-2007, 09:13 PM

IfritnoItazura:

You don't strike me as very experienced with this job. Perhaps you don't know this about Corsair:

Phantom Rolls can only be performed once a minute and the first cannot be overwritten by the same buff, in the second minute, you can put down another buff that cannot be overwritten by the same buff.

So let's say you're COR/WHM and you buff the backline first, that would be - for the sake of argument - Evoker's Roll and Healer's Roll. Now, let's move to the melee buffs, we'll say Fighter's Roll and Samurai Roll in this case. Once Fighter's is rolled, Evoker's is now down for the COR. So COR loses out on replenishing MP for that minute. But to keep the frontline effective, another melee buff must be rolled.

So you now have two minutes where COR/WHM isn't even getting the benefit of getting MP back. You could cut back on a melee buff to cycle Evoker's back in sooner for the COR/WHM, but that would be a disservice to the melees and tank. COR should be striving for a four buff rotation.

Now, a BRD can spam and overwrite buffs til kingdom come. They wouldn't have to worry as much about losing a ballad because that ballad will be back on them very soon. Another way to put it is in the time COR can do one buff, BRD can do his full rotation of four buffs. BRD/WHM would seldom be without Ballad which COR/WHM would go without for a full two minutes.

So basically, COR/WHM would need to have a RDM tethered to them to make it work consistantly. Sanction Refresh would barely be enough since COR can't equip other refresh gear. But there will be many, many times a COR is invited to be the sole support class and pull. At that point, whatever intent you have for subbing /WHM becomes very impractical.

I've never once said /WHM is "useless" or even implied that. I've said its impractical and not efficient most of the time. If it were totally useless, I wouldn't have bothered to work it into my COR's subjobs, its very practical for missions, BCNMs and endgame. It has a place, but that place is not in EXP 99.9 percent of the time.

I think to even play /WHM effectively w/o MP gear, that MP merits would be very crucial. I've already seen the huge benefit MP merits can give to other jobs, especially where solo outings and EXP are concerned. MP merits gave my RDM a perfect convert ratio. Its giving my BST enough MP to raise at 50 wheras in most cases it wouldn't be possible w/o MP gear until 57 or so. Helped my BRD and even my solo outings as DRG.

Would it do a lot for COR/WHM? Absolutely. Sacrifices on ranged accuracy gear would not have to be made. You'd possibly only need Opo Crown at that point to give that MP an extra Boost.

Necropolis

02-05-2007, 09:46 PM

I've never once said /WHM is "useless" or even implied that. I've said its impractical and not efficient most of the time. If it were totally useless, I wouldn't have bothered to work it into my COR's subjobs, its very practical for missions, BCNMs and endgame. It has a place, but that place is not in EXP 99.9 percent of the time.

Well something that is impractical or not efficient 99.9% of the time I would as understand as useless. If I had a car that only ran .1% of the time wouldn't that be useless?

Seeing as the only jobs that can refresh are brd, rdm and cor, I find that many invites for cor come from a need for a refresher. That being said that would imply that the party does not have a brd or a rdm. If there is no bard and there is no red mage, and I assume that a cor/whm was not invited to be a main healer, then it can further be assumed that there is a white mage present in the party.

So with that being defined we have found that the party only has a white mage, and possible a black mage for support, there for limiting the number of people that can remove statis effects and cure when needed. As a white mage I have no problem casting paralyna, silena and most statis removers quickly on 4-5 people. However, Erase has a 15 second recast, and even with 15% haste from gear the recast timer is still rather high. Similarly, Blinda has a 3 second cast and a 10 second recast time, so having two people removing those effects would be an added bonus.

Now maybe it's just because you refuse to play differently and will not accept anything less than an optimal party setup where there is a brd or rdm present for refreshing, and your tanks are wearing God gear, and everyone has 100% of thier attention on the game and not LS chatting while exping that you do not see the usefullness of a cor/whm in exp. Or maybe you are just more of a DD type personality and like seeing high damage output from your support/melee job, but either way you cannot make a blanket statement that 99.9% of the time a certain sub is not effective in exp. Maybe 99.9% of the parties you are in because of a close minded attitude and don't accept varients from the common trend, but not 99.9% of the FFXI community.

While a Corsair is an effective puller, and does now have a sleep (though on a 1 minute recast timer), I very rarely meet one that is effective at it. The do not have the crowd control of a rdm or brd in that aspect, so I would say that they are on par with a thf, war, drk, or any other melee that has a weapon that they can throw.

To the OP:

While Cor/Whm is accepted it is not always optimal for all circumstances. If there is a red mage or brd/whm or even a smn/whm present then you would probably benefit yourself and party members to sub a more DD oriented subjob. Being more flexiable in the role you fill will most times lead to higher invites and therefore more experience, while being restrictive will occasionally lead to parties passing over you to invite someone else.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

02-06-2007, 01:46 AM

While a Corsair is an effective puller, and does now have a sleep (though on a 1 minute recast timer), I very rarely meet one that is effective at it. The do not have the crowd control of a rdm or brd in that aspect, so I would say that they are on par with a thf, war, drk, or any other melee that has a weapon that they can throw.

Your whole post fell apart right here. You judge our ability to pull and sleep based on a handful of players that did not peform well at it. Yet you claim BRD and RDM to be better by default merely because of the jobs themselves. That sounds like a rather inflexible viewpoint.

Its not just the job that allows for crowd control, its the players behind the jobs that do that. Show me one bad COR puller/sleeper and I'll find ten BRDs that suck at pulling, sleeping and buffing in general.

Crowd control is not a job trait, its a player skill.

Celeal

02-06-2007, 05:19 AM

...
Phantom Rolls can only be performed once a minute and the first cannot be overwritten by the same buff, in the second minute, you can put down another buff that cannot be overwritten by the same buff.

So let's say you're COR/WHM and you buff the backline first, that would be - for the sake of argument - Evoker's Roll and Healer's Roll. Now, let's move to the melee buffs, we'll say Fighter's Roll and Samurai Roll in this case. Once Fighter's is rolled, Evoker's is now down for the COR. So COR loses out on replenishing MP for that minute. But to keep the frontline effective, another melee buff must be rolled.

So you now have two minutes where COR/WHM isn't even getting the benefit of getting MP back. You could cut back on a melee buff to cycle Evoker's back in sooner for the COR/WHM, but that would be a disservice to the melees and tank. COR should be striving for a four buff rotation.

I am not a COR, but I am just wondering if the COR/WHM buff the frontline line first, then go back to backline and buff Evoker's Roll, would the COR/WHM has mp refresh all the time?

Let say the buff rotation for COR/WHM is:
1. Start with Healer's Roll at the backline.
2. Then go to frontline buff melee with 2 rolls.
3. And then go back to backline and use Evoker's Roll.

The result is melees have 2 rolls for frontline, backline mages have Healer's Roll and Evoker's Roll, and COR/WHM has one frontline roll and Evoker's Roll.

Necropolis

02-06-2007, 06:27 AM

Your whole post fell apart right here. You judge our ability to pull and sleep based on a handful of players that did not peform well at it. Yet you claim BRD and RDM to be better by default merely because of the jobs themselves. That sounds like a rather inflexible viewpoint.

Its not just the job that allows for crowd control, its the players behind the jobs that do that. Show me one bad COR puller/sleeper and I'll find ten BRDs that suck at pulling, sleeping and buffing in general.

Crowd control is not a job trait, its a player skill.

While crowd control is not a direct job trait not all jobs can do it. Bard, Red Mage, and Black mage have multiple forms of sleep, which gives them an edge over a Corsair that can only cast one form of the spell. If the Corsair misses the shot, or is resisted then you have to possibly deal with 2 mobs at the same time. Means two mobs will be attacking and there for more damage being dealt to the party, which means more cures that your main healer has to use.

Yes there are bad bards, bad red mages and just many players that don't play thier job well. But all I was stating is that Bard and Red Mage have more tools at thier disposal to be more effective in a role as pulller/sleeper.

You'll note that I did state that Cor is an effective puller, then continued to state my experiences with Corsairs that I've seen pull. I merely stated what I have observed, but did not in anyway say that was the norm to be expected from Corsairs. You can show me your 10 bad bard sleepers and I'll show you 10 corsairs that can't keep a refresh roll on the mages. And we could continue to do that to the end of time.

But why would you want to force the OP into leveling subs that he may not want to play to fulfill a role that he doesn't want to, just to have him turn out to be an inferior Cor because he doesn't play the way he would enjoy. A Cor/Whm can and does preform fine for many party setups, so if he wishes to limit his subs to whm only let him. He may get fewer invites because of a lack of flexibility but at least he would be enjoying the game.

While I admit that your post (and your post in general) are rather detailed and list pros and cons of various details to be thought of, you seem to want to change people's opinion to match your's exactly and then will argue till you're blue in the face with anyone that offers a varying opinion. My personal observations of corsairs that I've partied with is that they try to mimic a job they were familier with before or playstlye they enjoy. If a cor/rng or /nin comes to a party they are familier with pulling or DDing, while a cor/whm is familier or enjoy a more support oriented role in a party. I want people to be proficeint in what they do as well as enjoy themselves.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

02-06-2007, 09:48 AM

While I admit that your post (and your post in general) are rather detailed and list pros and cons of various details to be thought of, you seem to want to change people's opinion to match.

Not the case at all, the OP is just one of those prime examples of players who look for an "out." He didn't come here to hear about /RNG or /NIN, only for confirmation he could get by on /WHM. He recently asked the same thing in the BLU forum - if he could just use /WHM 1-75

Scroll down just a little and you'll see he made this post once before. He gave up COR once before due to lack of gil and people seeming to want CORs that have /RNG or /NIN subs. He stated he "didn't have the time" and didn't like levelling melee jobs, I believe. Yet, before the Blood Pact adjustment, he had gotten to 68 on SMN. Prior to that update, levelling SMN was very time consuming and invite rate wasn't the highest.

To play jobs well, subjobs are needed and usually more than one. I don't like for a second having to do /SAM and /THF subs and definately don't like repeating /NIN and /WHM. But that's my fault for having two characters. I looked at my Taru and wanted to do BLU and BST on him, I have all the subs i need save for /NIN and /THF completed. /SAM is something I'd like to have for my RNG on the mithra and /WHM I've been working on for COR. Not for EXP, but for other events and functions. If I'm out on my own, I like to be able to help people as I pass, offering a raise or a cure.

Getting the subjobs done is work, but in the end, its rather rewarding in that you have a more refined character and jobs.

IfritnoItazura

02-06-2007, 09:59 AM

Omgwtfbbqkitten

02-06-2007, 10:12 AM

(BTW, I did grill the COR/WHM on why he does not like to use /RNG and /NIN; his answer basically boiled down to that he believes he offers a more complete package for the party as /WHM--and, yes, he still contribute to DD and toss out Slug Shots.)

/NIN isn't all that hot for landing Slugs, in fact, I still find it inferior to /RNG in that regard. But /WHM is far worse since you don't have accuracy traits or even Dual Wield to compensate for the lack of them. He's contributing a lot less to DD than he's probably giving himself credit for.

One big reason people are so militant about /RNG and /NIN is they compensate for our B rating in gun much better than other subjobs would. To go without them is like a PLD or NIN trying to go without a /WAR sub. PLD doesn't get Provoke from his main, nor does COR get Accuracy Bonus traits from theirs, so you must turn to the subjobs that give them the skill they need to perform their roles.

We can talk about RDM's B rating in sword and why they shouldn't melee, but there's a night and day difference between B Gun and B Sword DoT/WS damage. Gun wins. And with Joytoy in hand, Gun really wins.