Any chance of distributing a trial for FFXI anytime soon?

[favian]

Is there any plans to distribute FFXI trial to potential users through the internet or retail outlets such as GameStop?


------------------------------


I'd like to join an MMORPG, however i am split between joining WoW and FFXi. I have no particular bias towards either franchise. However, i did engage in the WoW trial the last time they allowed it to happen. (Blizzard distributed the trial through fileplanet.com and through video game shops in the form of $2.00 demo discs)

It seems like a lost opportunity to not distribute FFXi online or in retail stores in a 14 day trial format similar to wow's strategy. It could introduce potential new subscribers to FFxi who have been on the fence about it like myself.

The closest thing to a demonstration is the Benchmark program they release for FFXI, but that doesn't really showcase the experience at all.

I want to try FFxi, but without having to make a $30 investment (http://www.amazon.com/Final-Fantasy-XI-Vanadiel-Collection/dp/B000JJI4Z0/sr=8-3/qid=1169108473/ref=pd_bbs_3/105-5898315-5981257?ie=UTF8&s=videogames), because of the chance that i may not be interested in subscribing after the included 30 day trial is complete.

It seems like a nobrainer on square's part. The amount of subscribers coud easily increase by giving a generous trial to gamers.

[Jarre]

wth a MMORPG I doubt 14 days is enough to actually see if you like the game. as with all MMORPG's the game is vast and there is a lot to take in at the begining which can be frustrating, if like alot of people you will experiment with many characters, different races job combinations etc. until you find the one you like. I.e. I started as a hume, went to elvan, then taru, then Galka. Galka being my 4th character I stuck with it and now a year and a half on, hes still going strong.

If you want the easier game go to WOW if you want a challenge, a brilliant helpfull community and a company that tries hard to combat Real money traders and keep the game upto date with new bits etc, then join us here on FF.

[favian]

wth a MMORPG I doubt 14 days is enough to actually see if you like the game. as with all MMORPG's the game is vast and there is a lot to take in at the begining which can be frustrating, if like alot of people you will experiment with many characters, different races job combinations etc. until you find the one you like. I.e. I started as a hume, went to elvan, then taru, then Galka. Galka being my 4th character I stuck with it and now a year and a half on, hes still going strong.
If you want the easier game go to WOW if you want a challenge, a brilliant helpfull community and a company that tries hard to combat Real money traders and keep the game upto date with new bits etc, then join us here on FF.
14 days is an adequate amount of time to pique someone's interests. The minimum purpose of any trial is to at least demonstrate what is in store for the user if they take the plunge.

Wow's trial programs have been very successful even at 14 days.
The idea of spending $30 on a trial for a game i may not like isn't appealing to me.


I understand there will be a lot of bias in this forum and recommendations for ffxi, but i'd like to try it myself. We all have different sensabilities. it may or may not appeal to me. it is odd that square hasn't taken some of the more successful cues from blizzard's playbook.

[KalemLyco]

Jarre has got it down to a 'T'

Here on FFXI the world is vast and ever-changing. The people here are friendly and with the auto-translate feature we are often playing with people from Japan and other such countries that don't use English as a first language. We are constantly learning from one another and helping.

We are also constantly fighting Real Money Traders (RMT) and eliminating them from the game.

Come join the wonderful world of Vana'diel

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

14 days is an adequate amount of time to pique someone's interests. The minimum purpose of any trial is to at least demonstrate what is in store for the user if they take the plunge

Wow's trial programs have been very successful even at 14 days.
The idea of spending $30 on a trial for a game i may not like isn't appealing to me.

I understand there will be a lot of bias in this forum and recommendations for ffxi, but i'd like to try it myself. We all have different sensabilities. it may or may not appeal to me. it is odd that square hasn't taken some of the more successful cues from blizzard's playbook.

Hate to break it to you, but WoW tips the scales in a player's favor so you could progress your character a decent ways in those 14 days. FFXI is a completely different beast and more in-line with MMORPGs that preceded WoW than the ones that came after, though it does have a lot of its own unique differences as well.

A lot of the FFXI servers have been up for over five years now, in this time a lot of people are now high level and it is now harder to start out at lower level. FFXI is not solo-friendly from the beginning, after you get between levels 10-15, you'll find partying is very much a necessity to progress. Since so many players are high level now and don't wish to return to the low levels, starting out or even going back to level a new job or character is quite a challenge.

Keep in mind Blizzard caters exclusively to a PC userbase, so getting a downloadable trial is easy. Not so with SE and FFXI, they support three different platforms - all of which are capable of playing FFXI on the same servers. Were SE to make a 14-day trail, then it would be needed on PS2/PS3, Xbox360 and PC. As it is, you're getting a free month and access to all expansions with the Vana'diel Collection currently at $30, that's quite a deal considering most players payed $50 to start, and $30 to play the subsequent expansions early.

And more important than any free trial is to research an MMORPG fully before you even think about about purchasing and subscribing to it. Know the full scope of what you're getting into, don't leave it to a trial period where you likey will not see everything. Everyone has a different pace, I've known those to make signifigant progress in FFXI in 14 days and some never get past level 20 in that time.

I have a lot of friends that play WoW that would call it a wolf in sheep's clothing. The solo side gives way to an endgame where you're dependant on guilds to do everything - but WoW is not hyped up as that experience, its hyped as a soloable one. Ultimately every MMORPG boils down to teamwork and coordinating events with lots of other players. But Blizzard - or more accuractely their parent company, Vivendi Universal - marketed WoW as the opposite.

Demos are nice, but they're never representitive of the full experience. Know what you're getting into, trials don't always tell the full story.

[Murphie]

Still, a free trial is a nice way to see if the game you are thinking of buying is worth trying out. The closest thing we have is the Buddy Pass, which isn't really the same thing at all, but it's at least something. Of course, for that to work, you need to know someone else who has a copy of the game, since there aren't any (legal) online outlets for you to purchase the game.

Many MMOs have free trials. And often those free trials are what sells a person on the game. I picked up a copy of EQ2's new expansion (comes with all previous expansions and the original game), because the trial was so great. Heck, I'd probably still be playing it, if I could have convinced any of my gaming friends to join me (they didn't want to try the trial, or are too into their current game of choice). WoW's two week demo is a great way for people to find out first hand if they even like the basic mechanics of the game. You can't find that out via screen shots and conversations on a forum.

I've tried 1-2 week trials for most of the MMOs I've played. I don't like to buy something like this without having something of an idea of what I'm in for. So, SE probably could grab some new folks with a downloadable trial. Would that suck for PS2/3/360 users? Yeah. Would I care about that? Not so much.

But will they do it? Highly unlikely. That's just not how SE works.

[favian]

Thanks murphie, thats exactly how i and many others feel. I'd like a buddypass if anyone can graciously provide one. I will see what i can do about getting the game installed.

As of now, i'm still unconvinced. While i do not find it surprising that some of you are advocating final fantasy xi on a FFXI forum, As it stands now i have meddled in the world of WoW for free, and i have not meddled in Vana'diel at all. That to me, means a lot in deciding which mmorpg to join.

I suggested a 14 trial on square's part, but a free 30 day trial of the core ffxi game isn't unreasonable at all, considering the fact that the game has been up five years now.

Omgwtfbbqkitten, you stated that it is difficult to start out at a lower level at this point of the game's lifespan because everyone has moved up. That isn't very encouraging either. I have also taken that into consideration now.

I fail to see how $30 is a bargain for an mmo considering i may not have any use for the expansion pack after the trial is over and i decide not to subscribe.

At the end of the day, there is only so much praise you can give a game before you have to let the enduser try it out for themself. For every WoW counterargument, there will be a a counterargument against FFXi. That alone is a reason to let the user decide for themself which mmo they like. Who knows, a trial could expose a player to the world and they'll end up loving it, where as before they had no real exposure it at all. Square shouldn't drop the ball in this respect.

A trial can be easily distributed online (the core game) for windows. Yes there are other ffxi platforms, but mmo players are predominantly windows users anyway, especially in america. I see it as a lost opportunity to give ffxi more leverage in north america if they don't do it.

I made this thread in the Ask Square forum because this is something i want them to know is on the minds of myself (and others) and it is a deciding factor over which mmo i join.

[Celeal]

$30 USD for the FFXI collection set, and it offers 1st 30 days for free. It is like one dollar per day. If you like it and decide to continue after the 1st 30 days is over, you just need to pay the subscription. There is no need to buy the expansion set. I guess it is just a different way to do business ^^?

[Murphie]

I'd send my Buddy pass your way if I hadn't already given it to some stranger who used it without even thanking me.

But we do have a Buddy Pass request thread here. If you post there, you may be lucky enough to get one. Maybe not, but it's worth a shot.

Which I had another suggestion for you though. :(

Celeal - Except that all MMOs give you a 30 day free trial, so most people aren't looking at it like that. It's part of the standard package. That said, for $30 - $13, you're only paying $17 to see if you like the game. But I still think you shouldn't have to pay that $17.

[favian]

Thanks for your help. I searched up buddy pass after you told me about it, and this is what i found:

http://ffxi.boonty.com/

is this where i'd enter the pass when/if i aqcuire one?

[Murphie]

I've never seen that site before, Favian. I meant here at FFXIOnline, we have a Buddy Pass thread (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/general-ffxi-discussion/53098-buddy-pass-request-thread.html?highlight=Buddy+Pass).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

You seem to be looking for arguments against WoW where there aren't any. I'm just stating the reality of both games. Your desire for a trial version does not alter the fact that when the trial is done, you still will not have a better picture of either game, just part of a picture. Sometimes part of the picture just isn't enough.

My advice is to check out the job forums for both games, read up on how the jobs are described as well as how people like to play these jobs. WoW affords you the opportunity of making several characters to get a feel for each race and class, but many of the classes are available from the beginning. FFXI doesn't restrict classes by race and you can change jobs on the same character, but you do not have all access to every class from the start, only six.

That's the kicker - a job you may want to try will not be available to you in trial even if SE did provide one. It sometimes a long road to be what you want in FFXI.

Researching your purchases is pretty essential to gaming these days, demos and hype will only carry a game so far. It may seem like work to look so deeply at games like this, but your wallet will thank you at the very least.

[Murphie]

Yes, but part of the picture is still better than no part of the picture at all. And a free trial is research, of the tangible kind.

Will two weeks in this game give you a full picture of it's mechanics? No. Will it give you a better picture than you would get from reading about it on forums and various websites, and viewing screenshots? Yes.

[Ziero]

I agree with both points, a free trial will help give a better indication as to how the game works and plays, even if it doesn't even show you a tenth of what the game has to offer. But on the other hand a free trial will provide a very limited view of the entire game as a whole. My best example would be m purchase of PSU recently at the insistence of a friend who just loved the game. I paid for it in full, purchased my online account and enjoyed it for the entire time my account was 'free'. But just two months into playing I started noticing some glaring downfalls of the game and began to pay more attention to some of the 'little things' I overlooked in the beginning. Seriously, if I ever think of having a complaint about SE's support, I just look at Sega's services and know it could be a LOT worse.

Having said that, a *real* free sample is never a bad thing to have. Even if it is just two weeks.

[Gentoo]

Hmmm. This is an interesting topic to play with. A trial client really should be a 12 hour trial, good for two weeks, not a full 14 days of play. That would be enough time to get accustomed to the controls, get a good feeling for the graphical detail, and allow an outgoing player to interact with other players.
It also would be short enough that [hopefully] a player wouldn't be too attached to their character and not feel too bad about having to start fresh again. This would allow trial clients to be quarantined to a specific server (we wouldn't want gil sellers to use free trial accounts to amass gil on the standard servers).

If I pretend that I'm a new player interested in trying out a medieval flavor MMOG, FFXI pretty much comes in last in my list of games to try.
I can go download a free trial for Dungeon & Dragons On-line, World of Warcraft (maybe this changed with the burning expansion?), Everquest 2, Guild Wars, and Lineage II... ( These are just the games I came with off the top of my head, I know there are more).
Or I can pay $20-30 to try FFXI for 30 days "free." Many of those other games, as Murphie pointed out, already give me the first month free so this doesn't give FFXI any competitive advantage.

So with the lower bar of entry, I'd probably favor any of those other games to FFXI. I'm thinking that a trial client might be a great way to start getting new blood into FFXI.

[Murphie]

The EQ2 Trial Client is interesting in that it's somewhat limited as to what you can actually do, even within the limits of the newbie zones of the game.

You cannot exp beyond level 10, and you can't initiate trades with anyone, or send tells to people not on your friend list. The latter two restrictions weren't always a part of the trial, but RMT started to use those free accounts as a way to advertise, so SOE had to nip that in the bud.

Still, their trial (as with WoW, DAoC, CoH/CoV, etc.) gives you enough of a taste of the game to decide if you'd like to explore further.

[Malevolent]

The bad thing (one could say) about the WoW 14 day trial is that you can't lvl past lvl 20. You can't experience the full game. You can't trade with other perscribed players. you can only hold 20 silver. You have a huge limitation which kinda bothers me. When i purchased FFXI and did the 30day trial i could lvl to 75 if i wanted to i didn't notice a restriction....

[Murphie]

I imagine the limitations beyond level are for much the same reason SOE has trade and auction limitations for trial accounts.

[Gentoo]

The bad thing (one could say) about the WoW 14 day trial is that you can't lvl past lvl 20. You can't experience the full game. You can't trade with other perscribed players. you can only hold 20 silver. You have a huge limitation which kinda bothers me. When i purchased FFXI and did the 30day trial i could lvl to 75 if i wanted to i didn't notice a restriction....

I see what you're getting at, but that's the difference between a free trial client and the full on game. The problem with the FFXI "trial" is that if you play it, decide it's not your cup-o'-tea, you're still out the purchase price.

It would be cool if the WoW 14 day trial had no limitations, but by the same token I've got to believe that most reasonable consumers understand (and accept) the limitations. That is to say, one knows the trial client is really there just to whet your appetite for the full course meal.

[Murphie]

When I was playing EQ2 (all of December), someone would occasionally pop up in the OOC channel to complain that the trial was awfully limiting. The general response was "Well, it's a trial."

[favian]

I see what you're getting at, but that's the difference between a free trial client and the full on game. The problem with the FFXI "trial" is that if you play it, decide it's not your cup-o'-tea, you're still out the purchase price.


exactly my point.

i dont know anyone who thinks $30 for a trial is a bargain, not even if they throw in every expansion pack ever created. if at the end of the day you dont enjoy it, the game becomes nothing more but a coaster. i suspect i will never play this game unless square becomes more liberal about distributing trial downloads/cd-keys (one per credit card/name). I do not feel comfortable plunking $30 on something i may end up not liking. Simple as that.

'a $1 a day' is still much more than a wow trial. Blizzard frequently offers a window of opportunity to try for free (with download), or charge $2 for a two week trial dvd.

anyway, a taste of the ff xi experience (albeit a short one) will always beat just reading about it, and not experiencing it for yourself at all.

I also find it very hard to beleive that a trial wont give me ANY perspective on what the full experience would be like. what i'm being told in this thread by forum members, is that i'm completely in the dark BEFORE a FFXI trial and AFTER the trial as well. that is absurd to me.

i'm speaking from a practical viewpoint as well. as it stands now, if i had to make a decision, i would have to jump on the wow bandwagon because i'd rather play something i already had some personal experience playing rather than something i have only read about.

a proper trial would help me make a better decision.


i rather like the blizzard method, because it gives the customer two weeks to try the game out at their leisure, and if you decide you like it, purchase the game in the store, and you get the wow equivalent of a buddy pass plus 30 extra free days for yourself.

if you decide you dont like it after the trial, you lost nothing, at most $2 if you paid for a trial dvd.

if you decide you dont like ffxi, you're out $30.

i havent heard a decent counterargument to this yet.

[Gentoo]

I also find it very hard to beleive that a trial wont give me ANY perspective on what the full experience would be like. what i'm being told in this thread by forum members, is that i'm completely in the dark BEFORE a FFXI trial and AFTER the trial as well. that is absurd to me.

I don't think anyone is making that argument. I think the trend seems to be implying that it won't give you the full FFXI experience, which has some pretty dramatic changes at various points in the game. That conceit is on the money (as it would be for probably most MMOG trial software).

The one thing I would recommend is to post on these forums and ffxi.allakhazam.com asking if you can use someones buddy pass. Chances are, it would give you a chance to try out FFXI.

[favian]

yah. so far no luck getting a buddy pass. i'm well aware that i'm not going to get the full experience in a trial, but i need to compare with wow, which didn't give a full experience either but more than ffxi has offered me.

[Kenki]

FFXI does have a 30 days free trial. Every new FFXI account made from a new CD key will receive a 30 days free. You get 1 set of CD key when you buy the DVD collection (FFXI main, Zilart, ToUA and Promy) and an extra free FFXI main CD key for giving to a friend. Both you and your friend will get the 1st 30days free.

The extra is the main FFXI CD key. It is just as good as any other CD key which allows you to make a character for a 30 days trail as well as a POL acct. The only drawback is that you need to get your FFXI somewhere (like torrent or edonkey) if you can't borrow your friend's DVD. The only drawback is that it is only FFXI so no expansion areas - ToUA, Promy, Zilart - for you (no need to install them) unless you start buying the other expansion or a new DVD collection.

[favian]

FFXI does have a 30 days free trial. Every new FFXI account made from a new CD key will receive a 30 days free. You get 1 set of CD key when you buy the DVD collection (FFXI main, Zilart, ToUA and Promy) and an extra free FFXI main CD key for giving to a friend. Both you and your friend will get the 1st 30days free.
The extra is the main FFXI CD key. It is just as good as any other CD key which allows you to make a character for a 30 days trail as well as a POL acct. The only drawback is that you need to get your FFXI somewhere (like torrent or edonkey) if you can't borrow your friend's DVD. The only drawback is that it is only FFXI so no expansion areas - ToUA, Promy, Zilart - for you (no need to install them) unless you start buying the other expansion or a new DVD collection.

yeah im aware of that option now. there are problems with that method, some you mentioned already.

the installation isn't easily accessible. imagine telling your customers to download the install via edonkey. i dont know anyone who plays it, most of my friends are interested but aren't going to spend $30 on a trial. neither am i.

so even if i had access to the installation disc, i'd be out of luck if they gave out their buddy pass already. it seems like they instate more measures to keep people out than bring in.

i have a coworker who was split between ffxi and wow, he went with wow after doing their trial, and because he couldn't compare it with ffxi. i imagine that happens a lot. as it stands now i dont think i will ever try ffxi unless i meet the following criteria:

1) finding someone who has a buddypass and is generous
2) getting an installation dvd

what i really want from square is a full scale trial campaign, where they distribute the core game freely online or cheaply in stores.

it is the only way for them to capture a larger market share. as a company interested in a larger bottom line i don't know why it hasn't been done already.

[Murphie]

Yeah, that's the Buddy Pass, which is unfortunately harder to come by than some people may realize.

[favian]

dont know how often square reads this particular 'ask square' forum, but if they do, i just want them to know that they are losing out on potential customers/subscribers because they do not have easy access to a trial. (i'm a good example)

it seems like the only trial available to an enduser now at this point is if a consumer has purchased something from one of square's partners

-alienware
-logitech

only then can you get an access code and access to the 2gb installation.

http://ffxi.boonty.com/

square, making things more difficult and inaccessible than they should be.

[Zeret]

yea the trial for FFXI would not work at all, it might even work against them seeing how your gona be able to do so little. The game is massive and just trying to make a trial from it would make it very hard to play. People who get the trial just wont understand how diffrent it would be from the actual game.

[favian]

well, blizzard has been very generous with their trials and they have captured the largest market share for MMORPGs in north america (and internationally if i'm not mistaken). i'm not saying its all due to their trial distribution, but it certainly helps. its exactly how i was able to give it a test, and i went it knowing exactly what it was. a trial. a small sample of a world i knew was greater than what was being shown. i was well aware of the limitations of the trial, i was well aware that the scope of the game was larger than i could experience in the span of two weeks.

i cant beleive people here are actually saying no trial is better than a trial.

i'd like to decide for myself if the game is something i'd enjoy myself, rather than have someone else tell me that i will not enjoy it because its a sample of a larger whole.

anyway, i am downloading FFxi setup disc (what an absurd measure to take just to sample their game) via a torrent.

when its done i'm hoping i can get a hold of a buddy pass, otherwise its all in vain.

if i can't get a running trial of this game in the next week or two, i'm just going to jump on the wow bandwagon and pick up where i left off when my trial ended there.

[Murphie]

yea the trial for FFXI would not work at all, it might even work against them seeing how your gona be able to do so little. The game is massive and just trying to make a trial from it would make it very hard to play. People who get the trial just wont understand how diffrent it would be from the actual game.Trials manage to get the idea across for virtually every other MMO on the market today. As a long time FFXI player, I can certainly see where there would be limitations, but honestly, there is enough to figure out if you want to play or not.

For some FFXI players, I think they are just so used to everything coming only after a lot of time and hard work that the very idea of something coming easily is completely foreign to them, and they just dismiss it outright due to habit.

[favian]

Trials manage to get the idea across for virtually every other MMO on the market today. As a long time FFXI player, I can certainly see where there would be limitations, but honestly, there is enough to figure out if you want to play or not.

For some FFXI players, I think they are just so used to everything coming only after a lot of time and hard work that the very idea of something coming easily is completely foreign to them, and they just dismiss it outright due to habit.

thanks murphie,

I am watching the live square 'webcam' in vana'diel from their playonline.com page.

this is the closest i've come to sampling/experiencing this game.

if i wanted to compare the two at this point..i would have to compare my two week trial of wow with this webcam footage of vana'diel.. (oh and their benchmark program, which only demonstrates graphics)



update:

only 2 days and 6 hours left for the download to finish! thats 54 hours left to test this software (assuming someone is kind enough to give me a buddypass). in my opinion, square should be trying hard to obtain me as a customer, not the other way around.

[Ameroth]

Let me ask you this: How many video games have you bought in your life that you:

a) did not finish
b) did not like
c) both

If the answer is one or more, then i fail to see the real grievance in this topic. In the world of video games, we all take chances when it comes to buying a new game or system. You can read all the good reviews in the world about a game, and still end up disliking it.

I'm not trying to come off as an ass or anything, but honestly, a $30 investment to play 1 game (and all 3 of its expansions) for 30 days "free", isn't really that bad.

Think about people who paid almost $50 for Superman 64, and didn't play it for more than an hour. :\

[Icemage]

Considering that the average console game is $40-60 dollars these days, $30 with a free month of service isn't a bad rate at all. Obviously a free trial would be better for a new user to evaluate the game, but it would also cause all kinds of havoc on the servers as far as load, stability, and community atmosphere.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if $30 matters that much to you compared to a base monthly fee of $13 for FFXI (and for that matter WoW costs $15/month), you might want to reconsider playing a fee-based MMORPG of any sort.


Icemage

[favian]

In response to the last two posts:

The average console game lasts more for 30 days, especially if online play is a feature. (Windows and PS offers this for free typically)

An MMO is a different animal. Paying monthly for a game i know i will enjoy is not a problem. Paying $30 for the 2007 Vana'diel collection is something i dont mind as long as i know i will be enjoying the game. I dont know if i will enjoy the game. I can't stress that enough. I dont know any rational person that would spend $30 on a game that they could potentially end up cancelling a mere 2 weeks after purchasing it. Paying $30 is not a problem, paying $30 for something i might hate is the problem.

As it currently stands, i don't know if i will enjoy it, and there is only so much you can read about the game before you want to give it a trial run.

Knowing you LIKE an MMORPG before you purchase it is a luxury that many wow players have because they completed a trial before they purchased the game. This is obviously a successful strategy for blizzard, they have repeated their trial runs several times.

Smart consumers do not gamble when they invest money in a game. If i purchase a game, chances are i've played a demo, or played the full version, seen it in action, and enjoyed it. Personally, i have never had any regrets purchasing a game because i know enough about it or have played it so i know i'm not wasting money. So in other words, i have never purchased a game with my own money that i didnt enjoy.

Since tastes in video games are so subjective, there are elements that i need to test myself in order to see if i enjoy it or not. I have frequently read about the awkward controls of FFXI. It may be awkward for someone else, it may not be awkward for me. Without a demonstration or a trial, there is no way i could possibly know that. I do know i had no problems with the controls in WOW. I have to factor that in when i decide which MMO to pick.

You can read all the reviews in the world for a game, buy it, and still not end up liking it. But at least with a trial, i can decide that i do not like it within the context of a free trial. I am sure you've played a game demo, decided you didnt like it, and steered clear of it when you saw it in a store. Something you wouldn't have done if you hadnt played a demo, correct?

Also lets stop calling the initial 30 days of FFXI free, its not free. Its $30. And as far as server overload, i doubt square would initiate a widespread trial campaign without preparing for the resources required for a trial of that scale. (Assuming many players sign up).

[Icemage]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I think having a free trial would be nice for newcomers wanting to check out what all the buzz is about - that's exactly what the Buddy Pass system is designed to do, without opening the possibility of massive server overload.

Personally, I think Square-Enix really should expand the Buddy Pass system by allowing more ways to acquire a Buddy Pass registration key aside from having to purchase a copy of Vana'diel Collection. It certainly couldn't hurt things too much, and would make people who are curious about the game (such as yourself) very happy.


Icemage

[favian]

I agree, i mean, i really want to try it, but i also partially want to see square do well because i've been such a great big fan of theirs for so many years. I'd like to see them take a larger market share, but it doesnt seem like they are using enough aggressive tactics to get more users.

What did blizzard do right to get so many users?

[IfritnoItazura]

If the average console game lasts longer than 30 days, why do Blockbuster and other places offer game rental? I mean, for the price of renting for 30 days or more, one can just buy the games. (As far as I know, most people don't end up buying many games they've rented, otherwise, I guess you can call that test driving games.)

As for the control scheme, it's user configurable, like most games. Personally, I liked the PS2 layout, so I play on PC with a similar layout controller on the USB port.

* * *

Seems to me you're just looking for excuses not to try FFXI. Which is... fine.

FFXI is a difficult and challenging MMORPG, and really isn't appropriate for everyone anyway.

p.s. I do agree that S-E can do a better job at marketing this game. For now, though, the price of entry is $30, and looks to be above what you're willing to pay.

[Legal Fish]

The game does a very bad job at attracting new players in the beginning. Two reasons: FFXI is a game that slowly gives players more power/accessibility as they progress and the area of the game new players will be starting in is about 5 years old and SE has no plans on touching it anymore.

A trial could actually hurt FFXI unless SE starts revamping the first 20-25 levels.

[Murphie]

The difference, of course, between buying a console game that you don't like and an MMO that you don't like, is that you can sell one back to a store and buy something else you'd prefer. With an MMO you're pretty much stuck.

The Buddy Pass system hasn't seemed to chase people away from the game, so I don't see why a trial would either. It's obvious that they have the structure in place for a trial (the Buddy Pass), so providing more options for people who would like to try the game certainly wouldn't kill them.

But this is SE we're talking about here.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Icemage mentioned potential server load problems. SE is rather tight about how many people get on a server to start with. For example, some MMOs will allow you to have up to ten characters on any given server. This is partially due to job/race restrictions those games have and I'm sure they want their users to get a broader experiance. But a resulting problem is that everyone tries to make a character on the very first server they see. and may try to assign as many characters to that server as possible.

SE doesn't let you pick your server without a world pass issued by an in-game player and it doesn't let you create additional characters without paying a extra dollar per month. Its sounds very shrewd, but the end result is less strain on the servers and its easier to get online at any time. People actually ridiculed SE for this approach, thinking it was ridiculous.

Then WoW came out. It allowed you to make multiple characters. You could put them all on the same server if you wanted, you could pick any server you wanted to be on. Lost of people picked the first ones they saw and login difficulties ensued. It came to the point where players were placed in a login "waiting line" or "queue" on many servers. People were waiting 20-30 mins just to log in and play.

After that, people stopped ridiculing SE for how the decided to handle server load with FFXI.

[Murphie]

I don't see why having people automatically placed on a server would cause any undue server load problems.

And I still think it's a ridiculous system. Other MMOs manage to avoid the problem that WoW faces by limiting the characters you can have per server or globally. It seems to work perfectly fine for them.

[Grizzlebeard]

FFXI is a difficult and challenging MMORPG

Since when? Don't equate timesinks to difficulty.

Whilst I agree with most of what has been discussed on here I feel it's a waste of time expecting S-E to change something that would actually prove beneficial to them. BRP is quite rightly concerned about new player acquisition and their ultimate retention. The game is clunky and unhelpful from the moment you log in. I mean, there's the token quest and then... nothing. It's like the developers were forced to put something player-friendly in there for new players and they grudgingly tossed that in at the last minute. It doesn't lead anywhere, it just gets you to look at the map and run over to a mark. It's the first and last time I can remember anything ever being marked on the map for me when I was doing a quest.

I remember whenever friends started playing who I'd convinced to give FFXI a try. They all left after a week or so and these were seasoned MMoG'ers from EQ who were used to timesink quests that'd make your shit white. I'd honestly love to know the retention rate of the Xbox 360 players, I bet it's atrocious.

[Murphie]

Oh, it's totally a waste of time to expect SE to change their ways. That's just not going to happen. But so many people in this thread seem to have their own explanations for why it's impossible, which simply isn't true.

The only reason it's not possible is because SE doesn't want to do it. Period.

[Legal Fish]

I see an average of 3 to 5 new players everyday. I don't track to see if they last passed dunes, but I know a lot of them do.

[favian]

If the average console game lasts longer than 30 days, why do Blockbuster and other places offer game rental? I mean, for the price of renting for 30 days or more, one can just buy the games. (As far as I know, most people don't end up buying many games they've rented, otherwise, I guess you can call that test driving games.)

As for the control scheme, it's user configurable, like most games. Personally, I liked the PS2 layout, so I play on PC with a similar layout controller on the USB port.

* * *

Seems to me you're just looking for excuses not to try FFXI. Which is... fine.

FFXI is a difficult and challenging MMORPG, and really isn't appropriate for everyone anyway.

p.s. I do agree that S-E can do a better job at marketing this game. For now, though, the price of entry is $30, and looks to be above what you're willing to pay.

1) Blockbuster rents games to make money. Period. Games can be enjoyed in small doses, especially non-MMO games. Typically games are developed so that they have replay value after you have completed the game, with added features and online capabilities. You have never puchased a game you enjoyed during a rental?

2) There is only one way to know to see if i like FFxi and to see if i'm comfortable with the controls, play mechanics, overall system of gameplay. And thats playing the game itself. I dont know anyone who plays this game, i dont have access to any buddypasses, all i have are the opinions of ffxi subscribers and some webcam footage of vana'diel.


3) The price of entry of $30 is an absurd amount to pay for a trial, especially when their successful competitor has avoided the S-E method and been very successful at it. You can't argue with results.


4) Lastly, wherever did you get the idea that i am looking for reasons to avoid trying FFXI? i specifically joined this forum to find out if a trial was available. I have been inquiring on ways to get a buddypass for myself. I have the FFXI dvd downloading (48 hours left). For a person that "doesnt want to play FFXI", i am sure doing a lot in order to play it. Dont ya think? My earlier point still stands, i am doing an awful lot to try to be square's customer, when it should be the other way around.

[Ameroth]

For a person that "doesnt want to play FFXI", i am sure doing a lot in order to play it. Dont ya think? My earlier point still stands, i am doing an awful lot to try to be square's customer, when it should be the other way around.

Doing a lot, except actually playing the game. You can argue and complain all day long about there being a lack of trial version; is SE going to drop what their doing to spit out a trial version just so you can find out if MAYBE you like the game? No. Are they going to do it for any other reason? Most likely, still no.

I think it was Icemage that said this, but if you're too squeemish to (potentially) "waste" $30, then maybe you should stear clear from all MMO's to begin with, as they will eventually end up costing much more.

It's understandable that you want to test out the game first, that's quite ideal. But life isn't always ideal. Either get a buddy pass from someone (I used mine on my girlfriend, sorry) or bite the bullet and buy the game. Complaining about not having a trial might be fun, but it's not really getting you any closer to actually playing the game. Sorry.

[Murphie]

It is a completely valid point when almost every other MMO on the market has a free trial though. I don't know why people keep trying to write it off as some sort of anomaly, when it's really more the standard than anything else.

[favian]

Doing a lot, except actually playing the game. You can argue and complain all day long about there being a lack of trial version; is SE going to drop what their doing to spit out a trial version just so you can find out if MAYBE you like the game? No. Are they going to do it for any other reason? Most likely, still no.

I think it was Icemage that said this, but if you're too squeemish to (potentially) "waste" $30, then maybe you should stear clear from all MMO's to begin with, as they will eventually end up costing much more.

It's understandable that you want to test out the game first, that's quite ideal. But life isn't always ideal. Either get a buddy pass from someone (I used mine on my girlfriend, sorry) or bite the bullet and buy the game. Complaining about not having a trial might be fun, but it's not really getting you any closer to actually playing the game. Sorry.

Trying to play the game is my main objective isn't it? Its why i'm on this board, its why i've had this download going for hours. I can't actually play this game now remember?

Like i said, i'll happily pay $30 for the retail version once i know that i enjoy it. Price isn't necessarily the issue here, its knowing that i am buying something that i will enjoy, or in the very least something that whets my appitite for more. I can't compare it to my wow experience because i have zero experience with FFxi.

Is SE going to distribute trial software more freely just to see if i (and others) enjoy the game? From the looks of this thread, its doubtful. Would it be in their best interest to do so? Yes. (Developers dont waste time and money releasing demos and trials unless there was a chance that the end user liked what they saw and plunked down the change for the full version. This system has worked for YEARS). What you're basically arguing is that NO demo or trial has ever been useful.

If i was the head of the playonline division of square (or whoever handles it). I would do as much as possible to ensure a steady flow of new customers, and so as much as possible. Imagine all the propective fans/subscribers of FFxi that will never play the game because S-E hasn't made any effort to make a trial available to them without forcing them to pay a $30 evaluation fee. (yes fee)

Sorry to burst your bubbles, but a lot of people are like me and aren't going to invest $30 in a game and make a $12 a month commitment to a game without knowing first what they are getting into. In fact, i've never met a person offline that has ever played FFxi, not even a trial, which only means that S-E is doing something wrong.

I'm not squeemish about spending $30, i'm squeemish about spending $30 on a trial that i may not like and stuck with a game i have no intention of subscribing to. Money IS NOT the issue here.

What's unclear about that? I dont want to spend money on something i dont like, thats exactly what trials and demos are for. So far no luck on getting a buddy pass, like i said, if i dont get one within two weeks, i'm just going to join another MMO, ive played wow during their trial, i have experience with it, i can easily pick up where i left off, which is more than i can say for square.

[favian]

strange......

[Ameroth]

Honestly though, I'm not sure what you're expecting us (FFXIO.com) to do about this issue. We aren't SE, we don't control SE, and we certainly don't produce trial versions. It's already pretty obvious that a trial would help educate people on FFXI, and probably increase the new user base; most of us agree on that.

And now we're back to square (no pun intended) one. There's no trial; you want one. Tell us what it is that you want us to do.

[favian]

Honestly though, I'm not sure what you're expecting us (FFXIO.com) to do about this issue. We aren't SE, we don't control SE, and we certainly don't produce trial versions. It's already pretty obvious that a trial would help educate people on FFXI, and probably increase the new user base; most of us agree on that.

And now we're back to square (no pun intended) one. There's no trial; you want one. Tell us what it is that you want us to do.

I dont expect anyone on this forum to do anything, i never said that i did.

I am posting in a forum called "Ask SquareEnix Questions" So i am doing exactly that. I never blamed anyone in this forum for the lack of trials.

lets not put words in people's mouths..

[Icemage]

I agree. Favian has a point. While I do think it's pretty improbable that complaining about the lack of open free trials, the only opinion that matters in this case is what Square-Enix feels about it.

You know what I do think would be a good way to to do it? Add a new option to the World Pass system whereby you can purchase a Buddy Pass registration code in-game. That way online members can easily provide a code to new users with traceability without risking overspamming. In fact, I think this idea is so good that I just submitted it to PlayOnline as a suggestion...


Icemage

[Ameroth]

I agree Icemage. That opens up to everyone who plays the ability to allow someone they know to try out the game. Everyone is happy.

[Grizzlebeard]

It's a start but it presupposes new players know someone who already plays or that they'll come to this site and ask existing players, who don't know them, to buy them passes.

[favian]

I agree with Icemage, they should also take it a step further and sell buddy passes for $4.99 and include a link to the installation. For those people (such as myself) that dont know anyone who subscribes to the game, but are interested in playing (like myself and others). We already know the installation is just sitting on a server collecting dust (http://ffxi.boonty.com/)

I like your idea because it keeps out overspamming, but one buddypass per name/credit card could help limit the overspammers?
If i wanted a buddypass so i can play, and lets say i asked you to buy me one. Wouldn't i have to paypal you cash so you can buy the buddypass for me in the 'World Pass System'?


To use a crude analogy, Its sorta like a minor giving money to an adult so they can go into a store and get them alcohol.

How about once an FFXi member vouches for an 'outsider', they can produce a link which allows them to pay with their own credit card and download the game?

[IfritnoItazura]

1) [...]
2) [...]

3) [...]

4) [...]

1. Er. I was talking about why would people RENT game if they want the game for more than 30 days.

2. *shrug* True. You have to try it to find out.

3. Agreed; S-E should make the trial cheaper. However, complaining about it here over and over isn't likely to change anything. Or complaining anywhere else, for that matter.

4. Seems like an unproductive use of time just to save $30? lol.

* * *

I don't find the argument about server load a particularly convincing reason why S-E doesn't offer free, downloadable trials. If I have to guess, though:

A. Security. Trial accounts are essentially disposable accounts. RMT, griefers can use these easy to obtain accounts to do some quick transaction or a trick, then forget about them.

B. Bad design, point #1. FFXI isn't well suited for online download--it's too freaking large, and probably cannot be played with just a few parts installed w/out some serious hacks. (It's no Guild Wars, that's for sure.)

C. Expensive. Most people who download some free trial thingie never actually buy them--the sell through rate is low, while the download is large--and therefore expensive due to the network bandwidth needed.

On the other hand, people who actually pay money for a package are more likely to keep playing, since they've already "invested" in their character. Thus, downloadable "free trial" is likely an expensive and ineffective marketing effort compared to retail shelf space.

D. Bad design, point #2. It's hard to figure out what to do when one first starts in FFXI, especially for someone w/out experience with MMORPG's. That's a terrible "trial" experience, IMO.

[favian]

4. Seems like an unproductive use of time just to save $30? lol.

its sad that i have to go through such measures to see if i want to be their customer isn't it? Most people wouldnt bother.

As far is it being too huge, they distributed the game online (2gb) before, i dont see why the wouldnt do it again, if even 20% of trial users ended up becoming permanent subscribers, it would be a success wouldnt it? They can always mirror the installation file on other servers, or use torrent to distribute the core game (without expansions)

blizzard distributes wow frequently online, and its compareable with the download size of FFXI.


One thing i've noticed throughout these posts is how difficult and inaccessible the game is when you start playing. Square obviously has enough confidence in their product, otherwise they wouldnt have a buddypass system in place. But not enough to begin a mass trial campaign?

[Murphie]

Icemage's idea is the best suggestion I've seen so far. Having paying customers able to purchase a Buddy Pass (even one that is a bit more limited than the version currently existing) would be a huge step in the right direction.

Games as large as or larger than FFXI have downloadable trials as well, so that's clearly not a huge issue for most game companies.

As BRP mentioned in a thread a while back, SE could really stand to revamp their newbie experience as well, as a way to hopefully draw more new players in, and better acquaint them with the system and game world. As it stands right now, there is the bare minimum of information provided to a newbie. You basically just start in the world, with no direction whatsoever beyond an NPC telling you to go get a free 50 gil.

Attacking the OP's intention for the folks here at FFXIO is a bit ridiculous, since this is the "Ask Square Enix Questions" section, and he has at no point demanded someone at FFXIO do something about this.

[favian]

D. Bad design, point #2. It's hard to figure out what to do when one first starts in FFXI, especially for someone w/out experience with MMORPG's. That's a terrible "trial" experience, IMO.

badly designed? well if the trial experience was that bad, i wouldnt imagine why so many people played beyond the included 30 'free' days of the retail game.

[favian]

Icemage's idea is the best suggestion I've seen so far. Having paying customers able to purchase a Buddy Pass (even one that is a bit more limited than the version currently existing) would be a huge step in the right direction.

Games as large as or larger than FFXI have downloadable trials as well, so that's clearly not a huge issue for most game companies.

As BRP mentioned in a thread a while back, SE could really stand to revamp their newbie experience as well, as a way to hopefully draw more new players in, and better acquaint them with the system and game world. As it stands right now, there is the bare minimum of information provided to a newbie. You basically just start in the world, with no direction whatsoever beyond an NPC telling you to go get a free 50 gil.

Attacking the OP's intention for the folks here at FFXIO is a bit ridiculous, since this is the "Ask Square Enix Questions" section, and he has at no point demanded someone at FFXIO do something about this.


100% Agreed.

[Legal Fish]

Another way to attract players with trials, especially from the Xbox360 console, would be randomly give 5 to 10 free passes every or every other Friday for people who subscribe to the service/contest. Each pass lasts 30 days. You got the excitement factor there.

Not exactly trial, but being able to download the game and buy content IDs(of main game and expansion) from the Xbox360 marketplace and Playonline would be a good idea.

[favian]

there's a ton of good ideas, yours included. its just odd that square hasnt exploited any of these ideas to get more users in north america. unless they are just happy being #1 in japan.

[IfritnoItazura]

favian,

I made educated GUESSES at S-E's reasons for deeming free-trial a bad idea. (It would be silly to assume they've never thought of it.) You can argue they are bad/good reasons all day long, but as Icemage said, the only opinion which matters is S-E's.

By the way, I would consider 20% subscription an immense success from any kind of trial. Heck, even 5% would be more than good enough to order deluxe sushi bento boxes and premium sake for the entire team.

Seriously, with the starter experience S-E has programmed, though, I would be surprised if more than 1% of free trial downloaders ever subscribe.

About the only saving grace of the beginner experience in FFXI is that if you just shout politely in-game "Excuse me, I'm new to FFXI, would anyone mind showing me the basics for a few minutes?", there would most likely be multiple offers to help. That, is the the best feature of FFXI--the community.

Of course, good luck to newbies on figuring out how to shout... Or, even figure out what is "shout"...

(Believe it or not, as grouchy as I sound, even I have shown half-a-dozen random, brand new players around, taking an hour or more sometimes. I actually want MORE people running around in the game, but the first few hurdles too high for most new players.)

[Murphie]

IfritnoItazura, how is that experience any different from someone who purchased the game and is exploring during their first 30 days?

[Raydeus]

I seriously doubt anyone can truly experience XI in less than a month though, so maybe like others have said SE doesn't have a trial simply because they realize it would do more harm than good since it takes more time to get into the the game than it does in other MMOGs.

(And giving away 30-day trials wouldn't be good unless they had a separate trial server which would be even more pointless)


Although that still doesn't explain why you have to buy the discs from a retailer instead of being able to purchase it online and simply download it. :/

[Murphie]

You can't truly experience any of the MMOs that have a trial version. But that's ok, because a trial version is supposed to just give you a taste. If 30 days isn't enough to grab someone, then SE is already in trouble, since buying the game gives customers a free 30 days at the start. If by the end of that someone isn't grabbed, why on earth should they start paying for it?

[Raydeus]

Yep you are right, so knowing XI a 10 day trial wouldn't be enough, 30 days is plenty of time though but I doubt SE would be willing to give that much time unless they have a good reason to do so.

Like for instance the player having other friends also playing (which seems to be the reason behind the buddy pass).

So it really seems like SE doesn't want to waste resources on players with such a low chance of actually staying, they simply let the franchaise and company name (and the active players) to do the recruitment instead.

[Murphie]

I still like Icemage and BRP's ideas. I don't see why Buddy Passes couldn't be a little bit more accessible for people who might want to try the game out. It's not hurting anyone, and could possibly bring in more business.

[Celeal]

Speaking of free trial, did S-E offers free-beta for Xbox360 before the Xbox360 retail version exists? Well, beta is different from trial, anyway... back to the topic~

I would agree that with the current content at beginner levels, it would be hard to attract new players with 14 days trail. I think friends and community in FFXI is one of the key factors that drives players to continue the game.

Maybe it is smart for S-E to make 14 days trial verison of FFXI too. In reality, I doubt S-E has any plan for distributing trial version anytime soon.

[Murphie]

So if I understand most folks here correctly, this game is nigh impossible to start, and it's only through some sort of miracle that players continue to play after their initial 30 days that they get with their purchase.

[Raydeus]

So if I understand most folks here correctly, this game is nigh impossible to start, and it's only through some sort of miracle that players continue to play after their initial 30 days that they get with their purchase.

Yep, that's pretty much it.


Just kidding, more like 10-14 days isn't enough time (unless players have plenty of time to play that is) because even though XI was very interesting to me (being my first MMOG and all) I gotta say it's just too slowpaced for such a short trial time.

But I don't think XI is almost impossible to start at all, it just takes more time.

In my case I don't think I left Basty-Gustaberg till around day 15 or so, but I've always had limited time to play so other players could be able to see much more content in the same amount of time...so I dunno. o.O

Edit > 30 days is plenty of time though.

[Mhurron]

So if I understand most folks here correctly, this game is nigh impossible to start, and it's only through some sort of miracle that players continue to play after their initial 30 days that they get with their purchase. Well duh, you can find that out from any discussion here about new users. The only way that anyone here kept playing was because we were all born knowing how the game worked.

[Murphie]

Lucky us. So glad I got that FFXI memory implant in my teens.

[favian]

By the sounds of it, a 30 day trial is more appropiate than a 14 day trial. Some people here subscribe to the idea that even the first thirty days can scare away newbies, i can only imagine the 'success rate' of a 14 day trial would be.

30 days it should be. course i have no real input on it.

update: 5 hours left for the dvd torrent to finish, but who knows since torrents typically fluctuate in speeds.

[IfritnoItazura]

IfritnoItazura, how is that experience any different from someone who purchased the game and is exploring during their first 30 days?

I guess I didn't make my point well enough...

If you get something (item, game, etc) for free in an impersonal manner (e.g. not a gift from someone you care about): You try it, found it to be confusing/difficult to use, you toss it. No sense of attachment; "I got it for free, so no big deal."

However, if the same confusing/difficult item/game is given as a gift from someone you care about (i.e Icemage's extended buddy pass idea), OR, if you have invested substantial effort in getting the item (e.g. paid nontrivial amount of money for it, enter an essay context to win it, whatever), you will feel more attached. Therefore, you would be more inclined to figure out how to make it work.

May sound counter intuitive, but "free" makes it less likely someone playing it will subscribe. It some ways, it cheapens the value of FFXI in the mind of the player, even if the actual play experience is identical to that of a paying customer. On the flip side, downloadable free trials will also reach wider audience, so on the whole should bring in more long term customers.

It comes down to how the expense of hosting, bandwidth, additional software engineering, customer support, etc. compare with the expected revenue such an endeavor would genearte. The FFXI dev team's goal isn't to get as many customer as possible--it's to make as much money as possible within the resource allocated by S-E.

Whether on the balance a free, downloadable trial version would make more money for S-E or not, is something they obviously decided as "No", after so many years without offering one.

Does that mean the FFXI dev team would never offer one? Well, if they can find a scenario in which making free trial available would earn them more money than costing them--and, convince S-E's management to give them the resource to implement it--sure. If anything, they have already invested substantially to make their payment/accounting system for PlayOnline more flexible, making it very likely the backend can support different length free/trial subscription.

[Murphie]

As I said above, the only reason that SE isn't doing a Free Trial is because they don't want to. Not for any of the random reasons that other people come up with for why it's not possible, or not a good idea, or whatever.

And I disagree completely that having paid actual money for something will increase the chances that you'll stick with a game you don't like. If you don't like it, you are incredibly unlikely to throw good money after bad.

[Mhurron]

I guess I didn't make my point well enough...
If you get something (item, game, etc) for free in an impersonal manner (e.g. not a gift from someone you care about): You try it, found it to be confusing/difficult to use, you toss it. No sense of attachment; "I got it for free, so no big deal."
However, if the same confusing/difficult item/game is given as a gift from someone you care about (i.e Icemage's extended buddy pass idea), OR, if you have invested substantial effort in getting the item (e.g. paid nontrivial amount of money for it, enter an essay context to win it, whatever), you will feel more attached. Therefore, you would be more inclined to figure out how to make it work.
This depends on the person, and the game is not all that hard to figure out when you first log in with no help from someone else.

Everyone here figured it out, why is it so hard to believe that someone else might be able to figure it out when they start.

[Icemage]

I think the point of comparison is that FFXI does a lot less hand-holding for you than the gold standard, which is World of Warcraft. Heck, even the horrible Star Wars Galaxies does more basic instruction than FFXI supplies in-game.

At the very least, I think it would be beneficial to give players some "basic training" tutorials on things like Skillchains, Magic Bursts, Levelling Up, etc. All these things are mentioned in a somewhat roundabout way in the manual, but most people won't read the manual... and trial users won't have a manual to look at.


Icemage

[IfritnoItazura]

most people won't read the manual... and trial users won't have a manual to look at.

Oh, I don't know... I'm too lazy to look at the content, but maybe:

http://dl.playonline.com/ff11us/FFXI_MANUAL.zip

[Mhurron]

Oh, I don't know... I'm too lazy to look at the content, but maybe:
http://dl.playonline.com/ff11us/FFXI_MANUAL.zip
Unless you wire someone's eyes open, staple them to their chair and hold a gun to their head, most people won't read a manual ever.

[favian]

As I said above, the only reason that SE isn't doing a Free Trial is because they don't want to. Not for any of the random reasons that other people come up with for why it's not possible, or not a good idea, or whatever.

And I disagree completely that having paid actual money for something will increase the chances that you'll stick with a game you don't like. If you don't like it, you are incredibly unlikely to throw good money after bad.

I co-sign on this rational post as well. You know, lets say a new user hypothetically told themselves that they'd stick with the game 3 months past the trial and by the end of the last month they still dont like it. they'd have voluntarily thrown away about $66 of money to square for an experience they hated. Thats a worst case scenario, most people would have the sense to bail out during the trial or the first month after the trial if they didnt enjoy it. If square needs to reform the newbie experience, then maybe they should be a little more proactive about it.


update: Anyway i'm done downloading this 4gb game, now all i need is a buddypass, if i dont get one, downloading this file would have been in vain. anyone have one? nobody has bothered replying (or even bumping) the buddypass request forum. i will leave the game seeding as a favor to square. (ha!)

[IfritnoItazura]

And I disagree completely that having paid actual money for something will increase the chances that you'll stick with a game you don't like. If you don't like it, you are incredibly unlikely to throw good money after bad.

You can disagree if you want.

BTW, not that this is a proof, but why do Mothers take care of kids more often than Fathers?

Not just humans, but most animal with sexual reproduction are like that. The standard answer to that is: Because Mothers have invested more resources in children than Fathers. (You don't remember this, but your Mom carried you for about nine month, 24/7, sacrificing every second the very nutrients of her own body to sustain your growth--while your Dad just fetched pickles and ice cream for her from time to time.)

We are programmed by evolution to want to protect those people/things we have vested interest in; the more we've invested, the stronger the desire. It doesn't dictate what each of us decide in every setting, but it's one of the better rule of thumb for predicting human behavior in general.

Everyone here figured it out, why is it so hard to believe that someone else might be able to figure it out when they start.

Vast majority people who post on these forums are those who have (or have gotten help to) figured it out; ask grad school Mathematics Ph.D candidates why kids in elementary hate math, and you'll get many befuddled looks as well.

[favian]

it says i need a registration code found on my package to proceed with playonline, which i do not have.

lame.

is this going to be another obstacle for myself?

can anyone loan me their cd key for this one time dealy? i will purge it as soon as i am done.

[favian]

You can disagree if you want.
BTW, not that this is a proof, but why do Mothers take care of kids more often than Fathers?
Not just humans, but most animal with sexual reproduction are like that. The standard answer to that is: Because Mothers have invested more resources in children than Fathers. (You don't remember this, but your Mom carried you for about nine month, 24/7, sacrificing every second the very nutrients of her own body to sustain your growth--while your Dad just fetched pickles and ice cream for her from time to time.)
We are programmed by evolution to want to protect those people/things we have vested interest in; the more we've invested, the stronger the desire. It doesn't dictate what each of us decide in every setting, but it's one of the better rule of thumb for predicting human behavior in general.
Vast majority people who post on these forums are those who have (or have gotten help to) figured it out; ask grad school Mathematics Ph.D candidates why kids in elementary hate math, and you'll get many befuddled looks as well.


what vested interest does a person have in thirty day trial they only used on and off? you cant compare a mother's abandonment of a child with a ffxi user abandoning the game 2 weeks in. lol we're talking apples and oranges here (if i take your analogy correctly) you cannot equate a mother's 9 month attachment to a child and subsequent birth and hypothetical abandonment of all that invested time and emotion to a 16 year old cancelling FFxi two weeks in.


the simple matter is, people are typically frugal when it comes to their wallet. If they can return or reject something as early as possible in order to save as much money as possible, they will do it.

let me give you a real world example. i just dormed for a semester at this college i've been going to for a coulple of years now, i decided to dorm, and i hated the experience. it was an incommunal enviroment which was the opposite of what i wanted. So i bailed out of my contractual agreement to live on campus for the spring semester and ended up saving myself about $6000.

now, with your rationale i should stay an extra semester , to see if the experience and community at the dorms do a drastic 180, even though i have 5 months of experience living on campus that tells me that is very unlikely.


most people would opt out as early as possible to save the money that they could use on more useful things, whether its a video game, a car, a cell phone plan.. whatever. in fact, most cell phone companies have a grace period where you can cancel your contract and refund your money if you dont like the service within 30 days.

this is standard practice because human behavior is predictable. people who keep investing in something they dont like is extremely untypical (or at worst crazy).

[Mhurron]

Vast majority people who post on these forums are those who have (or have gotten help to) figured it out OOOO very good. Now, what's so special about you, or anyone else here, that they are so much better then any random new player now that you could figure it out, but a new player under the same circumstances can't? If you figured it out, any other random person can. FFXI isn't doctorate level Mathematics, it doesn't take someone with natural ability to understand it.

BTW, Getting a Ph.D in Math has little to do with liking or not liking Math in kindergarten. Most don't like elementary math because of the way it is taught, not because they can't do it. A lot of people that are good at Math hate the class, and some that hate the class became Doctors in Mathematics.

[IfritnoItazura]

OK, I give; I'll stop try to convince people my hairbrain theory of why free trial would have lower conversion rate than retail boxes.

(And, I don't get why my wording of "difficult" and "complicated" keep getting translated into "something they dont like" or similar when paraphrased by others. Maybe I should have phrased it as "You like what you've invested in--more you've invested, the more you like it" instead?)

If you really want to understand the concept I've outlined regarding why evolution may program us to protect vested interest instead of doing what's strictly rational for an individual, go read Richard Dawkins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins)' The Selfish Gene--it's probably where I got my idea from. It's a good book which covers much, much more, even if you do find my babbling to be trifle and uninteresting.

I used to work at a software company which relied heavily on "subscription", and that experience contributed to my educated guesses for S-E's business and technical reasons for deciding against free downloadable trial version of FFXI. Of course, only S-E knows their own reasons--but assuming they don't provide a downloadable free trial because they are stupid or haven't thought of it already would be silly, in my opinion.

The bottom line is that S-E's own projections probably indicated it'd be bad business, whether they would agree with my assessment of human nature or not.

[favian]

its not that your 'babbling' is uninteresting or trifle.

i just think its a real stretch to compare that to a 30 day trial for a video game. in this case i think a human's need for protecting their assets supercedes a human's need to cultivate their game experience hoping that it will get better.

in essence, you dig it or you dont. if you dont, you bail. its why people walk out of movies. they've seen enough to make a judgement call that the film isnt appealing to their tastes. they feel walking out and wasting $9 outweighs the torture of watching the remainder of the film. i've seen enough variations of this to know that it is common and should AT LEAST be anticipated. the last movie i personally walked out on was 'chronicles of riddick'

but we're beating a dead horse.

in any event it's made for some fun debating. if you want to pummel me in the game, you can do so (assuming i'm in vana'diel in 2 hours or less)

but i digress.

two obstacles left:

1) cdkey to make a playonline account
2) buddypass.

[Raydeus]

I think you guys are overanalyzing this. :P

[IfritnoItazura]

OOOO very good. Now, what's so special about you, or anyone else here, that they are so much better then any random new player now that you could figure it out, but a new player under the same circumstances can't? If you figured it out, any other random person can.

Actually, I almost quit after the first night playing--the lack of directions and goals was frustrating, and I didn't touch the game again for two weeks. My sister, who managed to progressed much further, later showed me much of the beginner stuff. The biggest reason why I kept playing (and paying) at first was because I was too lazy to cancel my account, not because the game was easy to understand.

I'm closer to the dumb new random player than the brianiacs who populate these forums. =b

As I've said earlier, I've guided around a handful of players with "?" icon on them. Of those, none are still in the game, I think. Of other newbies I've met in Valkrum Dunes and helped out some, most have left as well.

Conversion rate to long term customers is probably low for FFXI. I've no idea how low, or how it compares other games, but my own person experience tells me most people do not keep playing after they've tried it for a while.

I love this game (now)--but, most others do not, after they've seen it up close, from what I can tell. (Only S-E can provide the real conversion rate data, of course.)

* * *

Why do people keep putting words in my mouth? I never said they "can't figure it out"--just that it's not easy for most. -_-; It's a bad new user experience, not an insurmountable one...

My argument was closer to "freely downloadable trial version would not be cost effective given the size of download vs. the likely conversion rate due in part to the poor new user experience", instead of anything like "no new player can learn how to play FFXI."

[favian]

can anyone tell me how i can circumvent this playonline registration asking me for a registration code (i'm assuming they mean the cdkey).

i obviously dont have one, how would a person with a buddy pass use one? is this where i enter the buddy pass or does a buddy pass get entered at a different point?

i dont have a cdkey, what should i do?

[IfritnoItazura]

As far as I can tell, you need someone who purchased a "FINAL FANTASY XI Vana'diel Collection 2007" to give you a "PlayOnline registration code", which probably is included as part of that "Buddy Pass" thingie. The POL reg code then would enable you to obtainly a (free?) FFXI content ID (i.e. a character) for 30day use.

You can't "give back" a POL reg code, I believe; once it's used, it's "used up". (I think?!) Maybe people who bought a "FINAL FANTASY XI Vana'diel Collection 2007" can explain it.

[Murphie]

You get a CD Key when you buy the game. Since you haven't bought the game you won't have a valid CD Key. And since the CD Key is tied to an account (and once used is no longer valid), no one can loan you theirs, unfortunately.

Your only option is a Buddy Pass. You have the software, but you still need the pass.

[Ameroth]

If I remember right when I used my buddy pass, you have to actually download the copy that SE provides you via their servers. They either provide you with a registration number at that time, or one comes with the buddy pass card inside each box. I honestly don't remember. However, since you mentioned you downloaded the game with bittorrent, I don't think there's anything you can do short of buying the game for the reg. codes.

[Murphie]

Buddy Pass likely still works. Because you can let a friend use your disks to install the game, and then give him your Buddy Pass.

[favian]

yeah that is what i was thinking ^ otherwise they wouldnt have included buddy passes into the retail versions.

so i dont need a cdkey, but i do need a buddypass it seems. so only ONE real obstacle left.

[favian]

the buddypass thread seems hopeless because there are still several unfulfilled pass requests made before my post. i wonder why the posts in that thread that have had their requests fulfilled aren't deleted, so people know who still needs a buddypass, and who doesn't.

[Murphie]

Probably because very few of them have had their requests filled.

[favian]

ok guys i am willing to pay $5 for a buddypass via paypal.
who's game? (no pun intended)

[favian]

no takers?

[Murphie]

It's entirely likely that no one here has one anymore.

[favian]

Perhaps square should take some of these cues from blizzard.

http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowbilling/?id=abl01997p

especially recruiting a friend gets you 30 free days of gameplay. what a great incentive to help the community grow!

square is missing out on a lot of opportunities.

[Murphie]

They are indeed. They seem pretty content with it, for some reason. Oh well.

[Skylar]

Id be more than happy to buy anyone a buddypass if you want to be on the Kujata server.

[Murphie]

You can't buy a Buddy Pass. :( You can buy a World Pass, but it's not the same thing at all.

[Skylar]

Yes my bad , thats what I meant. A world Pass. Thank you for the wake up *Smack*

End of shift woes *sigh*

[favian]

damn got my hopes up

[Skylar]

I'm sorry!!

[favian]

its all good

i dont have time for any game right since spring semester started.

i'll see if square gets their shit together by may. hopefully i'm still interested by then