Benediction not 100% heal

[Haggai]

I've always understood Benediction one way. It cures everyone in the party to 100%. (and now cures almost all status ailments) It seems that this is not the case.

I was in a small linkshell skillup party upstairs in The Boyahda Tree. PLD75, WHM55-ish, a couple DDs and me. We were killing Steelshells and Goobbues. We ended up with two Goobbues at one point. The Paladin was close to death near the end of the last Goobbue with his, mine and the White Mage's MP drained. I was about to pop Manafont and start blasting Cure 3s when the White Mage used Benediction. At the same time, the Warrior used Rampage to finish off the mob.

The strange thing was that while we were catching our breath, we realized that the Paladin's HP was not 100%. We thought it could have been lag and the Goobbue got a hit in just after Benediction, so we looked at the difference of current to max HP. It was higher than the last hit on the log.

That meant Benediction did not cure him 100%. Was really close, but not 100%. We started joking around in Linkshell chat saying <Too Weak> <White Mage>, <Too Weak> <Benediction>.

So I guess Benediction is not 100%. Now that I look at this page (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Benediction), I see that the description says "Restores a large amount of HP and removes all status ailments for party members within area of effect." I suspect that it wasn't 100% because it was an Elvaan PLD75 at near death and a WHM55-ish doing the 'diction.

Has anyone else noticed this?

[Jei]

I wish it's not 100%, would make Absolute Virtue a joke : /
It is 100%. A slight decrease in HP can happen by a lot of things, like gear change.

[Lasareth]

Well you could always test it. Get a friend whose whm is level 1, find yourself a high leveled rdm with hp+ gear, go into a beseiged, have him use a giant's drink, then convert to <100 hp. Have the whm use benediction and see how much it heals.

[Ziero]

It's not 100%, AV just has a boosted Bene. A whm friend of mine when he was 65 trued bene-ing a 75 galka mnk with HP gear to see how much HP he could fill and didn't fill it 100%. My guess is lvl plays a part in the max HP you can cure.

[Sevv]

i think its effected by whm lvl and healing level, because my healing magic is undercapped (yes i know im slacking) we had tested my bene vs a friend whos whm is 40 and his bene did more then mine.

[Haggai]

I asked him if he did a gear change, he said no.

Now I want to try it out myself.

[Icemage]

It's 100% every time. Gear swaps may be to blame in this case. WHM has been my main job since June 2003 and I've used Benediction in virtually every conceivable situation. It has never failed to put people at max HP for me (I know I've healed people for over 2000HP before with it).


Icemage

[Mog]

I asked him if he did a gear change, he said no.

Now I want to try it out myself.

He probably ate some +hp food beforehand and it wore off during the fight, after you used benediction. Otherwise, it was lag.

[Necropolis]

Bene is a 100% like Icemage said.

I was curious about this before, so I tested it in Besieged where people have 3000+hp, and it cures from red to full everytime. I thought maybe being 75 already made a difference so I put my level 1 mule in Besieged and did the same test, and again it cured a for over 3000hp. So far as I can tell it's a 100% everytime no matter what level or healing magic skill.

[Icemage]

He probably ate some +hp food beforehand and it wore off during the fight, after you used benediction. Otherwise, it was lag.
I'd go with lag and/or HP gear. +HP food wearing off would shrink the perceived damage; i.e. you were 1000/1100 and your +50HP food wears off, leaving you at 1000/1050. Shouldn't work in the other direction.


Icemage

[Kuura]

Bene is Not 100%. Ive Bene'd a 75 Galka Monk from single diget HP and it only curred him to about 1700.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

Bene is Full 100%.

I've never seen Bene to not fully heal anyone in PT -ever-, and this is after playing WHM for 2 1/2 years.

[Feenicks]

Same here, Benediction has -always- healed everyone in range to 100% for me, and I have been playing WHM almost exclusively since NA release.

[hongman]

Im not to argue here, since I am a lowly WHM, and tbh I dont really care...

But.

To all those that have alwasy Bene'd for 100% HP in cases of 2000HP +, how would you explain the circumstances of other's NOT beneing for 100%? Esp those who held specific tests.

Maybe there are hidden attributes to Benediction? Or maybe not.

[Feenicks]

What if the players who did not get HP back to 100% were cursed or inflicted with Max HP Down, and Benediction healed that status after it had already healed HP to 100%?

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

Some situation concerning damage or a debuff occurred on the player who got Bene'ed that is causing HP to appear as though it was not healed to full.

... and that's it.

[Lasareth]

I'd encourage people to actually do field tests with this before posting more assertions. You risk sounding silly if you keep saying "it's full 100% you must be dreaming" when it actually isn't.

I've had the case happen to me that I was restored for much less than my max hp. However, I didn't screenshot it. Next time I'm in beseiged I will run a test and post screenshots.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

I'd encourage people to actually do field tests with this before posting more assertions. You risk sounding silly if you keep saying "it's full 100% you must be dreaming" when it actually isn't.

I've had the case happen to me that I was restored for much less than my max hp. However, I didn't screenshot it. Next time I'm in beseiged I will run a test and post screenshots.

They've been done.

[Lasareth]

Well to continue playing this game, "where?"

I'm not saying it's cruicial to know, this topic is pretty unimportant information to begin with and for all intents and purposes benediction is 100% when you need to use it, but that doesn't mean it is straight up 100% healing. How do you reconcile the accounts that it doesn't heal 100%?

And since we've got people saying it "definitely is" either one way or the other, sorry to say I just can't believe it on someone's word alone.

[Dux]

As a WHM myself and a player of FFXI since the NA releas on PC I have never observed or heard from any source that Benediction has not cured everybody to 100% health as long as they were in range.

Whilst I offer not proof that it does, the neigh sayers also offer no proof it doesn't. The "slightly less" cases could be explained by the multitude of reasons already mentioned.

Five years of experience tells me Benediction heals everyone 100% all of the time, other very experienced WHMs on this forum also say it always does work that way and there have been no massive influx of mysterious Benediction events on any server due to some update either.

With the simplest answer almost always being the right one, Benediction always has cured 100% to all in range and it still always cures 100% to everyone in range.

If sombody can provide undeniable proof that this isn't so then I am sure the community at large will be happy to reproduce your experiments, validate your findings and agree with you that the properties of Benediction have been subtly altered.

Please feel free to setup a controlled experiment and test this (Lv 1 WHM + Lv 75 Galka MNK with 1 HP standing in Jeuno would be ideal)

[Lasareth]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/lasareth/before.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/lasareth/after.jpg

I'm going to try with her and a level 2 mule to see if I can figure out if it's entirely random or if there's a formula involving mnd and or level.

[Taskmage]

lol 14 ... wow. You'd think it'd be higher than half the casters hp at least.

[Icemage]

LOL. Nice test. :)

Though if you ever, ever take a level 1 white mage into any situation where Benediction is needed... you deserve to die from sheer stupidity. :P


Icemage

[Aksannyi]

LOL. Nice test. :)

Though if you ever, ever take a level 1 white mage into any situation where Benediction is needed... you deserve to die from sheer stupidity. :P


Icemage
LOL! That would be hilarious.

Of course, I never knew that Benediction wouldn't heal all party members to full, unitl now. I thought that was how it was, but apparently I was wrong.

[Lasareth]

More results:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/lasareth/bene2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/lasareth/bene3.jpg


From this I've derived a rough formula of:

Benediction healing power = Caster's current level * Your current HP * 7.1842

Here's my data:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
68rdm 1whm
HP:2/978
Lightningsday
Benediction 14
MND: 9
Lv Diff 67
---
68rdm 2whm
HP:2/978
Lightsday
Benediction 28
MND: 8
Lv Diff 66
---
68rdm 38whm
HP:2/978
Darksday
Benediction 546
MND: ??? (forgot to ask)
Lv Diff 30
---
Level*Available HP*7.1842 = Cure%?
1*2*7 = 14
2*2*7 = 28
75*2*7 = ? 150*7 = 1050hp
38*2*7 = 532 (?)
Test:

LV_|_Tgt.LV_|_Tgt.HP_|_MND_|_LV.Diff_|_Bene
1__| 68_____| 2/978__| 9___| 67______| 14
2__| 68_____| 2/978__| 8___| 66______| 28
38_| 68_____| 2/978__| 42__| 30______| 546
90_| -______| 1000?__| -___| -_______| 630000 <- Theoretical
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This would explain why HNM can bene for so much and still be compliant with a general formula.

Feel free to test this. :D The equation is most likely wrong, as I have only done limited testing. The next step will be to try with 3 hp and see if I get results in line with what I came up with. I'll post those as soon as I can.

[Icemage]

Seems pretty solid, though I'll note:

Level 75 WHM x 7 HP per caster level = 525HP+ per current HP.

You'd literally have to be at death's door with even a moderately levelled WHM not to push you to max HP.

Also note that:

Level 1 WHM x 7 HP per level x 1/7 of max HP = max HP.

Even a level 1 WHM can heal you to full with Benediction as long as you're over 1/7th of your maximum.

For all intents and purposes, you'd have to be in the low single digit HPs to ever see Benediction ever fail to produce maximum HP per this formula.


Icemage

[Ghostraven]

wow great work.. Lots of people should feel humbled at this point....

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

Congratulations.

I can /bow before information and data proving that popular thinking is wrong.

However, you still risk sounding silly when you consider the notion. I mean, what person is going to take their under-leveled WHM and go heal an Alliance vs Niddhog. Spike Fail Do you Need it?

As was mentioned, for all intents and purposes, Bene will heal to full when its suppose to. Otherwise.... anything else is not a correct situation.

Was anything proven? Sure. Was anything proven that's worth something to a normal, intelligent situation? No. lol

[Lasareth]

I'm not saying it's cruicial to know, this topic is pretty unimportant information to begin with and for all intents and purposes benediction is 100% when you need to use it, but that doesn't mean it is straight up 100% healing.

My research was based on curiousity and nothing more. I never said it was practical in any way to bring a whm who wouldn't bring more than a meager benefit from benediction.

I'm not sure where you'd get the idea that I said bringing an underleveled whm to hogg would be useful. Maybe in a fantasy where you wished so clearly and dearly that I could incriminate myself by such a silly thought :biggrin:


And as for the topic, I actually did believe that it was 100% till I saw it happen to me in besieged. It's nice to know, though, for the sake of knowing. Just this topic's being here is proof enough that some people were curious :p


You'd literally have to be at death's door with even a moderately levelled WHM not to push you to max HP.


This should encourage some whms not to wait till their tank is at 1 hp before bene-ing then :P

Edit:
Here's some additional information

LV_|_Tgt.LV_|_Tgt.HP_|_Tgt.HPP_|_MND_|_LV.Diff_|_B en__|_f_LV_|
1__| 68_____| 2/978__| 0.204%__| 9___| 67______| 14____|0.2656
1__| 68_____| 3/985__| 0.305%__| 9___| 67______| 14____|0.2656
1__| 75_____| 3/1157_| 0.259%__| 9___| 74______| 15____|0.2930
1__| 68_____| 440/985| 44.67%__| 9___| 67______| 14____|0.2656
2__| 68_____| 2/978__| 0.204%__| 8___| 66______| 28____|0.2656
38_| 68_____| 2/978__| 0.204%__| 42__| 30______| 546___|0.2656
75_| 75_____| 1/1157_| 0.086%__| 75__| 0_______| 1156++|0.2929



So my above equation is most *definitely* wrong. I do have another working equation but I won't post it till I have a bit more evidence for it.

[IfritnoItazura]

However, you still risk sounding silly when you consider the notion.

[...]

Sure. Was anything proven that's worth something to a normal, intelligent situation? No. lol

These are unwarranted criticism for solid research on game mechanism. :huh: Lasareth should be applauded, not belittled.

I already see immediate application for WHM's in Valkrum Dunes. By the way, I'm one of those who have used Benediction but didn't get full HP for everyone in party--and now I finally know why.

All knowledge are worth having.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

These are unwarranted criticism for solid research on game mechanism. :huh: Lasareth should be applauded, not belittled.

I already see immediate application for WHM's in Valkrum Dunes. By the way, I'm one of those who have used Benediction but didn't get full HP for everyone in party--and now I finally know why.

All knowledge are worth having.

:/ Taking words out of context it the devil's playground.

[Lmnop]

preeeetty sure damage takes a penalty based on level. i.e. you do a WS, damage is multiplied (somewhere) by a constant that gets smaller the higher level you are. Would it be so strange for Bene to do something similar? Each level WHM gives a slightly smaller multiplier than the last level to the total HP.

[-Demitrius-]

I could just be missing something here, but looking at the data, the formula seems pretty obvious.

Level 68 has a max HP of 978.

Level 1 healed level 68 for 14 HP. 1/68 of 978 = 14

Level 2 healed level 68 for 28 HP. 2/68 of 978 = 28

Level 38 healed level 68 for 546 HP. 38/68 of 978 = 546.

The formula seems to be (max HP of target) * (level of WHM) / (level of target).

[Lasareth]

Demitrius, that does seem to be the case :O I ran the test with me and another rdm, level 62. He was inferior in all stats to me, yet he was healed for more, most likely due to the level difference between him and the whm. In addition that formula would be consistent with all the other samples I've taken.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

I could just be missing something here, but looking at the data, the formula seems pretty obvious.

Level 68 has a max HP of 978.

Level 1 healed level 68 for 14 HP. 1/68 of 978 = 14

Level 2 healed level 68 for 28 HP. 2/68 of 978 = 28

Level 38 healed level 68 for 546 HP. 38/68 of 978 = 546.

The formula seems to be (max HP of target) * (level of WHM) / (level of target).

So, according to this information.........

as long as the level of WHM and the "target of benediction" is the same, the person will be healed to full....

well now, what have we here..... =D

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

(disregard this section of post... double submitted - error.... talk about computers at work)

[Taskmage]

It seems to me what we have there is a model describing how not only is Benediction not 100% heal, but the conditions required for it to heal less than 100% are actually quite common (the healer's level being lower than the tank and melee). Furthermore, it shows that the tests that you referred to which had been done to prove the opposite were either made up, imagined or poorly concieved.

Lasareth was right and you were wrong. Your posting in this thread since that was proven have only drawn more attention to this fact rather than saving face as I assume they were intended to do. Just drop the issue.

[Sevv]

nice tests now ppl dont yell at me for saying it isnt 100% lol /clap

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

It seems to me what we have there is a model describing how not only is Benediction not 100% heal, but the conditions required for it to heal less than 100% are actually quite common (the healer's level being lower than the tank and melee). Furthermore, it shows that the tests that you referred to which had been done to prove the opposite were either made up, imagined or poorly concieved.

Lasareth was right and you were wrong. Your posting in this thread since that was proven have only drawn more attention to this fact rather than saving face as I assume they were intended to do. Just drop the issue.

I apologize. You seem to assume people are wanting to "bite off their nose to spite their own face."

You also failed to read certain things that that were admitted, and I will not point them out, because you obviously seem intelligent enough to warrant a response.

So, I strike your statement from the realm of understanding, because, it didn't come from there.

[Omniblast]

Added to subscribed. :) Good read.

[IfritnoItazura]

Re: Taskmage's comments.
So, I strike your statement from the realm of understanding, because, it didn't come from there.

Taskmage read you correctly; you cited non-existing "facts" and tests, then attempted cover up your mistakes by disparaging the significance and innovation of Lasareth's testing.

Taskmage's comments were right on the mark.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

Re: Taskmage's comments.


Taskmage read you correctly; you cited non-existing "facts" and tests, then attempted cover up your mistakes by disparaging the significance and innovation of Lasareth's testing.

Taskmage's comments were right on the mark.

No, he failed to read where I applauded the tests, humbly bowed to said-poster for testing the limits of popular thinking and reiterated that the point of the test, while proving that is not 100% heal, still is 100% heal given the circumstances of the job's level.

If you're keeping score, which, I really don't know why you would on this kind of thing because its like dross, then, had anyone read posts correctly, would not have felt to continue the conversation, in that sense. If you want to insinuate alot of meaningless jargon, by all means feel free. But you're grossly mistaken. Please be advised.

[IfritnoItazura]

I pointed out Shinhiryu_Kage's "congratulation" was a backhanded compliment, and he accused me of "taking words out of context"; Taskmage correctly identified his motive, and he accused Taskmae of "not from realm of understanding." Seems like subsequent exchanges are about as useless, as well.

This is getting silly.

Shinkhiryu_Kage: Apparently, you are incapable of admitting wrong doing, and can only return insults for any criticism encountered.

Here's an example of admitting wrong doing:

Sorry to have derailed the conversation of this thread; it's good work on the part of Lasareth and Demitrius, and I apologize for keep going off topic. I won't be responding to Shinhiryu_Kage any longer.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

I pointed out Shinhiryu_Kage's "congratulation" was a backhanded compliment, and he accused me of "taking words out of context"; Taskmage correctly identified his motive, and he accused Taskmae of "not from realm of understanding." Seems like subsequent exchanges are about as useless, as well.

This is getting silly.

Shinkhiryu_Kage: Apparently, you are incapable of admitting wrong doing, and can only return insults for any criticism encountered.

Here's an example of admitting wrong doing:

Sorry to have derailed the conversation of this thread; it's good work on the part of Lasareth and Demitrius, and I apologize for keep going off topic. I won't be responding to Shinhiryu_Kage any longer.

A backhanded compliment? A hidden motive? Excuse you, I'm very sorry, but you're terribly incorrect. That's a ridiculous notion. But, obviously, you're set on your derenged sense of intuition and frankly, I'll leave you to it.

This is a forum about a video game. Believe me, I have much better things to waste my energy on than hatching some hidden plan to thwart the likes of someone.

Honestly, if you think in this manner, you must watch too much tv. Not everyone is unscrupulous. There's just simply several sides to any angle, and you're aparently 1 dimensional.

It matters not, frankly I will go on about my way as well. Good day to you.

[Clever Ninja]

Congratulations.

I can /bow before information and data proving that popular thinking is wrong.

However, you still risk sounding silly when you consider the notion. I mean, what person is going to take their under-leveled WHM and go heal an Alliance vs Niddhog. Spike Fail Do you Need it?

As was mentioned, for all intents and purposes, Bene will heal to full when its suppose to. Otherwise.... anything else is not a correct situation.

Was anything proven? Sure. Was anything proven that's worth something to a normal, intelligent situation? No. lol

So Shinhiryu, maybe in your own little world in your mind this is a perfectly normal post, but the tone that comes from it is not a positive one at all. You among others got proven wrong by actual proof with actual tests. Noone else is making posts like this to attempt to save face(which you are. Whether you intended to or not is a moot point, thats what this post is attempting to do.)

And you actually have the nerve to attack Taskmage? Lol, I'm just gonna outright add you to the ignore list, don't wanna read anymore wannabe-elitists posts from yourself if your gonna continue that on these forums.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

Ok that's it. Accusing me of personally attacking someone is gross misconduct.
I'm not trying to attack anyone. I was having a decent conversation until people jumped on the soapbox of conversational drama which, I know for a fact, are guilty of disagreeing with other people in the past and pointing out other's flaws in their posts.

This has gotten to be idiotic. This is getting just as bad as KI and Allah. No forum, apparently, is safe from the ideas of ignorance. /goodbye

[Feenicks]

Bye then.

[Sevv]

Bye then.
lol so cold >.>

[Guren]

Bene is not 100% I have witnessed it many times.

To people who do not believe it have a monk get to under 100 at 75 and a Galka and then bene them.

[Taskmage]

Umm, ya ... if you'd read the thread you'd know that Lasareth and Demitrius proved in screenshots that Bene is not a 100% heal and worked out the formula for exactly how much hp it actually heals. >.>

[Dux]

I was thinking about this thread only the other day. I pop back and there it is right at the top.

Good work on the tests, yep I was wrong no doubt about it.