TP Burn Parties.

[Valiann]

Hello MNK people, I played FFXI for about a year, having a big long year break since last February and had some things I wanted to clarify with your help if possible.

Back before I had a break Mana Burn parties where the "shiznit" and I've looked at the forums and have been seeing TP Burn has taken it's place. Basically I wanted to know if a MNK performs well in this case as this is going to be my class of choice to try to get to 75.

Thanks.

[Haggai]

I wouldn't say that TP Burn parties have replaced manaburn, its just that melees want to do TP burn in Aht Urhgan areas because its fast and they don't have to coordinate a skillchain. TP burn couldn't replace manaburn, as TP burn is melees and manaburn is mages. As far as I know, if you can get TP quickly, you're golden on TP burn.

If anything, TP burn is causing more manaburn, as Black Mages are left out. So we BLMs band together and get a manaburn going.

Fastest route is still Bard though. They're wanted in TP burn, manaburn, and regular parties.

[Aeolus]

Mnk are good for TP burn, dont lv a job to 75 just because its easy.

[Mog]

You know what's funny? I have 6 merits and I have yet to join a regular merit party at 75. It's all manaburns....

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Mnk are good for TP burn, dont lv a job to 75 just because its easy.

Agreed, I loathe any term remotely resembling "fast track" in regards to jobs like BRD. Don't just level any job to get to 75 ASAP, level a job you like. Levelling a job to get to endgame quickly or just to meet the expectations of others is a pure recipie for burnout.

Trust me, I levelled BRD and RDM just to help fill a role in my LS or in static. I ended up really not enjoying those jobs and they were no strangers to getting burn parties and lots of merits.

Nothing in this game is more satisfying than playing the job you love in each aspect of the game, no matter how long it takes to get there.

[Sevv]

Tp Burns are very fun and very fast. The blms on my social get mad because most of us just tp burn now, seeing they all use to manaburn 24/7.

[Jei]

Manaburn is not as popular anymore. It's boring.... and require a lot more work than TP burn.

TP burn you just auto attack....
All else you need to do is macro Utsusemi and WS.
And just let the mages keep you alive if you got hit.

[Lmnop]

Hello MNK people, I played FFXI for about a year, having a big long year break since last February and had some things I wanted to clarify with your help if possible.
Back before I had a break Mana Burn parties where the "shiznit" and I've looked at the forums and have been seeing TP Burn has taken it's place. Basically I wanted to know if a MNK performs well in this case as this is going to be my class of choice to try to get to 75.
Thanks.

Yes. Monks and Warriors are perhaps the 2 most "desired" melee jobs in the game, atm. So you should be ok.

[Raydeus]

Manaburn is not as popular anymore. It's boring.... and require a lot more work than TP burn.

TP burn you just auto attack....
All else you need to do is macro Utsusemi and WS.
And just let the mages keep you alive if you got hit.

I wish it was that simple.:biggrin:

Well maybe as a melee it is but they need good gear, but as a RDM or BRD (even WHM)you really gotta work for it. Having a good and skillful BRD+RDM+WHM+DD combo can be the difference between getting 9k or 18k xp an hour.

[Aeolus]

He was obviously talking about as a melee lol.


And just let the mages keep you alive if you got hit.

[Malevolent]

When is usually a good time to start TP burning for Mnk and War? i suppose you could at lvl 20+ with the added help of the widley frowned upon PLer...

[Jei]

Yea. As Rdm, I can merit maybe 3-4 hours a day max. With warrior, I merit like 12 hours straight and I can still do more. It's not as tiring as Rdm.

Heh I don't even try to keep track of haste manually anymore... after doing that for 4 years I now use a time tracker for my haste >.>

[Raydeus]

He was obviously talking about as a melee lol.

Yep, but I mean in general, maybe melee only use a few macros, but I've seen melee hurting the xp bad because they actually think that's how it's done, so they just let Auto attack do everything and then just hit the WS macro once in a while while they watch TV or something.

Good DDs with proper gear and more importantly, who actually pay attention make kills much faster than Auto-attack guys that just stand there for a couple of minutes doing nothing after the a mob dies.

So TP-burns actually demand attention from DD at all times, even if it's only to keep targetting mobs, if they don't pay attention is as bad as a WHM going AFK while someone is taking a beating.

Both things hurt xp.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

When is usually a good time to start TP burning for Mnk and War? i suppose you could at lvl 20+ with the added help of the widley frowned upon PLer...

Wellll... it really can't start that soon for melee. See, a lot of jobs don't have access to the abilities, weapon skills and gear to TP burn til around 50. 50-56 is where melee classes get multi-hit weaponskills. In RNG and COR's case, they recieve Slugshot and Sidewinder, which is a quadruple damage attack (since Barrage already does multi-hit).

Its those things that make a TP burn more practical and effective. But then VT mobs are also a bit part of pushing the potential of TP burns, not to mention jobs like COR or BRD pulling and sleeping mobs.

[Icemage]

55 seems about the right level for TP burns to start assuming no outside help. Dragoons pick up Penta Thrust at this level, Warriors get Rampage. More importantly Bards pick up Mage's Ballad II at this level, which is the first time when they can really be the primary source of MP recovery in a party while still pulling.

P.S. Correction to above: Sidewinder and Slug Shot aren't quadruple damage. They're quintuple. The text description is wrong - the game calculates your damage multiplier at x5.0 for both weaponskills, not x4.0 as the help text would suggest.


Icemage

[Jei]

So TP-burns actually demand attention from DD at all times, even if it's only to keep targetting mobs, if they don't pay attention is as bad as a WHM going AFK while someone is taking a beating.
Not that much attention really. You just need to keep the monitor in your sight to
- see your TP hitting 100%
- see if the mob moves out of your melee range <--- most obvious catch for AFK DDs
- provoke the links

As long as your hand is holding controller, you can do all those easily.

When I missed out WSing or something like that, it's usually when I ran to the kitchen to cook my meal....
D:
Ok I admit I cook while I merit my war... something I can never do with my Rdm.

A little more attention is required if you have to count your shadows. Which again there's a shadow counter for you >.>

Compare that to watching 3 refreshes, 4 hastes, sleep links, silence mages, dispel buffs, enfeebling and keep 6 HP bars healthy. I think you get the picture. I can play war with 1/10 the attention I need as Rdm.

All the tedius thing like swaping gears and etc for war are all done when you created your macro already.

[Icemage]

RDM in TP burn parties is probably one of the most difficult juggling acts in FFXI. You've got 5-7 spells with a 150-180 second duration (Haste, Refresh), Dispel, Silence, Dia II/III, Sleep/Sleep II, Cures, Regens, plus track your own Convert timer so you don't run out of MP... and if you're going for the gold star, you'll cast Slow and Paralyze too.

Playing melee requires some attention, but not nearly as much IMO.


Icemage

[Raydeus]

And that's why I love TP burns as a RDM, fast paced fun. :thumbsup:

It is true melees aren't nearly as busy as the RDM, BRD or even the WHM, but they gotta pay attention at all times.


PS > Jei I'd kick you if I found out you are going semi-AFK without letting the party know. :P

[Jei]

You can't kick me. Taru AGI {catch meh}

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

55 seems about the right level for TP burns to start assuming no outside help. Dragoons pick up Penta Thrust at this level, Warriors get Rampage. More importantly Bards pick up Mage's Ballad II at this level, which is the first time when they can really be the primary source of MP recovery in a party while still pulling.

I suppose its all in how its played, people seem to be stuck on the notion that they need BRDs and multiple WAR or MNKs to make burns possible. Truth is, DRGs, COR and RNG can really smoke colibri thanks to having piercing weapons.

And COR may not have an AoE sleep, but the definately can do the job if the camp isn't terribly competitive, but at 72 they get Peacemaker which levels the playing field considerably.

P.S. Correction to above: Sidewinder and Slug Shot aren't quadruple damage. They're quintuple. The text description is wrong - the game calculates your damage multiplier at x5.0 for both weaponskills, not x4.0 as the help text would suggest.

Really? :eek: Surprised SE hasn't patched up that little detail. I suppose that makes sense because everone else is getting a WS that is a five-fold attack.

[Caspian]

Really? :eek: Surprised SE hasn't patched up that little detail. I suppose that makes sense because everone else is getting a WS that is a five-fold attack.
Yeah, there's a 5+ page debate in the Ranger forum somewhere.

A totally merited and pimped out MNK will usually parse about equal with a totally pimped out and merited WAR. Atleast in certain areas.
Seems most every job has a zone for meriting where they will dominate every other job. Its all about match-ups.

And MP recovery 55+ is only part of the reason BRD's make such good main healers in TP burn parties, they have march, madrigal, and minuet. As a RNG I can get minuet and prelude, or 2x min and eat sushi. In the late 50's we had a roaming TP burn party in the area where Olduum ring spits you out at, with just a single BRD/WHM as main healer. Averaged about 8k/hr iirc, which isn't too bad for that level range. Regardless, we were killing lesser colibri almost as soon as they were popping. Though, I would like to see numbers on the same setup party in the same spot, only replace the BRD/WHM with COR/WHM. Assuming the COR has time to DD, could have sped the party up a tad bit more.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Though, I would like to see numbers on the same setup party in the same spot, only replace the BRD/WHM with COR/WHM. Assuming the COR has time to DD, could have sped the party up a tad bit more.

Well, COR/WHM would be problematic as a main healer because:

(1) COR literally has to cycle out one roll to get a new one. They can't simply be overwritten like a BRD song can.
(2) If he's maintaining a four buff cycle, that's two minutes he won't have Evoker's Roll.
(3) Evoker's Roll is varied. 5, 8, 10 and 11 are the best numbers in that roll. Sanction refresh and Juice would be a must for a four buff cycle. Juice would stack with accuracy food, though. But people are pretty lazy about bringing Juice when it could help a PT.
(4) In the scenario, they'd probably also have to use MP food, giving up squid sushi (AGI for QD, ranged accuracy for DD.)
(5) COR would need Pie or merited MP for you to even have a hope of being raised by them at that level. I've seen the MP Elvaan and Galka get with WHM sub... it frightens me.

Even though its possible to just have BRD or COR as main healer with everyone /NIN, if things do go bad... you're really f'n screwed and they won't be able to save you. Plus that whole Pecking Flurry thing that ignores shadows. I'd only go with it if I really trusted the people in PT.

[Caspian]

Ah, as you can see, my knowledge of COR mechanics is absolutely nothing.

Iirc, part of what helped the party was a fight or two of Paeon and Mambo when the BRD's mp was low. That likely was the difference maker.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Ah, as you can see, my knowledge of COR mechanics is absolutely nothing.

Iirc, part of what helped the party was a fight or two of Paeon and Mambo when the BRD's mp was low. That likely was the difference maker.

Well it wouldn't be impossible, but for /WHM to be totally effective. the cor would probably have to cycle down to two or three buffs. Two buffs for melee and trying to keep Evoker's on himself as much as possible. Sanction Refresh and Juice could arguably cover him for the one minute Evoker's Roll was down if he just cut back to three buffs.

[Valiann]

Thanks for the replies, good to know MNK's are finally getting into parties easy enough in later levels. I'm not making a MNK for that reason at all, I initially wanted to make a MNK but after becoming friends with a high level one I just heard how hard it was to get into a party at later levels.

Also I do find that being able to get into parties as a major part of enjoying the game even if it's not the class I really want to play (but nonetheless very enjoyable). I had a THF at level 27 or 28 and I can remember just sitting there at some forest waiting for someone to ask me (I also tried forming groups), so I rolled a WHM and got to 22 and enjoyed it because people where all over me.

Edit: Spelling.

[Karinya]

Dragoons get Penta at level 49. 55 is the much less useful Vorpal Thrust.

But I think the big level for TP burns is 74 - before then, most people have to pay attention to their hate or take real damage. The real distinguishing characteristic of TP burns is not that all the damage is coming from melee, but that the party has very few or no members on defense. As long as you have a tank and are trying to keep hate on them, it isn't a real TP burn.

[Icemage]

Good catch on Vorpal/Penta. My mistake :D I just remembered every Dragoon in existence wanting to go to Labyrinth of Onzozo back in the day in the late 50s to beat up on the weak-to-piercing Torama (never mind that every healer in existence hates that place due to Silena/Paralyna spam in every battle). Of course, those Dragoons now want to go to Bhaflau to beat up on even more defenseless Lesser Colibri...

---

Burn parties as a rule are characterized by their lack of a tank, period, be they manaburn, TP-burn, arrowburn, fist-burn, or otherwise. Focus on offense, and kill the monster before it can penetrate your shallow defenses.

This is a big reason why PLD and WHM have become so unpopular in burn parties; they're the most defensively minded jobs in the game, and so provide the least support for these strategies. WHM's have a minor excuse because of Banish III's ability to support fist-burns in King Ranperre's Tomb, but without that there really isn't much of a reason to bring a WHM to any other burn camp at all. Paladins can actually play a DD/support healer role if people would just let them do so in TP-burns too, but it'll take some time for that mentality to sink in.


Icemage

[Jei]

I like PTing with Whm tho. Makes keeping people alive a lot easier :O And exp/hour isn't that much worse. Brd whm rdm DD DD DD usually is my favourite.

[Raydeus]

I like PTing with Whm tho. Makes keeping people alive a lot easier :O And exp/hour isn't that much worse. Brd whm rdm DD DD DD usually is my favourite.

Yep, same with me, and also the best xp I've got so far was with a BRD, RDM, WHM, DDx3.