Why can't BLU, COR, and PUP use the Kraken Club?

[Krondorn]

When the new jobs were added, Kraken Club was changed from an "all jobs" weapon to exclude the three new jobs. Is this temporary, and if so, why wasn't it changed back to "all jobs" after the December 2006 update?

[Aeolus]

Pup should get it, Blu are powerful enough without getting 100TP every 10secs :P

[Kafeen]

I'm sure I've seen BLU using it.

[Legal Fish]

Pup should get it, Blu are powerful enough without getting 100TP every 10secs :P

BLU are hardly the most powerful. There isn't a really good reason why they limited Kraken Club to the new jobs. It's a toy anyway, for any job but DRK.

[tdh]

BLU are hardly the most powerful. There isn't a really good reason why they limited Kraken Club to the new jobs. It's a toy anyway, for any job but DRK.Just outta curiosity, what is it for DRK?

The only reason I want a Kraken Club is to to Skill Up on. Would be so easy to cap Club skill with one, but outside of that I just don't see it being used. I think if I got one, I'd just loan it out to the LS to let them cap their Club Skills.

I have seen a THF who off handed it in a TP Burn, I also saw a SAM who used the Kraken to build TP, and then pop'd off Namas Arrow with their Yoichinoyumi (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Yoichinoyumi). No idea how much damage he was doing, but I do have to say the bow and Namas Arrow do look pretty sweet.

[Legal Fish]

Soul Eater

[Icemage]

DRK really is the only job with an excuse to use Kraken Club due to Souleater + Blood Weapon... but what an excuse it really is. Immensely powerful combination.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Blood Weapon + Souleater = some very disgusting dmg (Saw a screen of a DRK/DRG use Jump with that combo on the Dynamis Lord for like 2800 dmg...)

[Aeolus]

A rng with good gear and a K Club (Capped) Can do about 200 Dmg in 10s for 100%TP Sidewinder and repeat. This guy was in my PT and wasnt even hasted. Him and a Rdm could probably have dou'd the IT mobs we were fighting to at least chain 5 or 6. Sidewinder hitting 1.5k-2k.

[tdh]

Soul EaterI figured you had something else in mind. If an item is only useful once ever 2hrs, I'd still classify it as a toy.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

COR already gets Peacemaker (270 Delay, fastest gun in the game) and Joyeuse (occasionally attacks twice, fastest shortsword in the game) and those combined can lead to rather fast TP. I don't think I'd need much more than that already.

Would I love to have my RNG be able to use Joyeuse or even K Club? Sure, but successful Barrage with Hellfire alone will net me a full 100 TP. Loxley Bow is the lowest delay bow. And Othinus Bow lets me play hell with a mob in so many ways already. I'm not short on TP or damage options, so a Joyeuse or K Club isn't exactly needed over there.

BLU gets loads of Physical Spells, some of which are multi-hit. They also have a A rating in sword, higher than that of a RDM. RDM getting access to Joy and K Club would be considered levelling the field a bit, I'd think. Though really, DRK puts K Club to the best use.

[Kholdstare]

Actually, in much of the same vein, I have to wonder why BLU can't use Ridill. The whole "overpowering" issue would be valid if there weren't WARs utterly destroying anything with this thing in their offhand. I think Kraken Club should be "all jobs" once again, with Ridill being usable by BLU and possibly COR (if there's a precedent for them using falchions, that is.)

Besides, Expecting the majority to have these multihit weapons is so unrealistic it's not even funny. I mean, the only ones I can think of that are realistically within the average player's grasp are Joyeuse, KC (now with the BC having it.) Mercurial Kris, and Mercurial Sword (and both of those assume you know/are a fisherman, and are lucky enough to get the sword from a Ryugu titan, and the dagger from a BC from a sea chart from a marlin.)

[Legal Fish]

I figured you had something else in mind. If an item is only useful once ever 2hrs, I'd still classify it as a toy.


Um you are thinking of Blood Weapon? Unless you mean being forced to combo them together, which isn't required if the set up is right. Anyway, that is what level 1 CORs are for.

[Caspian]

Um you are thinking of Blood Weapon? Unless you mean being forced to combo them together, which isn't required if the set up is right. Anyway, that is what level 1 CORs are for.
The way I read it, I thought he meant if it was only useful for bloodweapon, then it would only be a toy.
Either way, its sick. I think I mentioned it before, An LS took down AV, mainly with several drk's with kc's. That and the droves of lvl. 1 COR's coming out and using their 2hrs.
It is nice in merit parties for RNG. With the right build and playstyle it makes it nearly unstopable in DoT.
However, DRK can use it many more situations and makes much better use of it than any other job.

[Lmnop]

BLU already deals a very good amount of damage as well as having all sorts of funny tricks to pull. Assuming party layout isn't an option (which means the BLU has Refresh all the time in addition to auto-refresh and likely sanction refresh), they will give the "pure" DDs a run for their money. Giving them a Ridill would make them able to keep up with the other DDs, in addition to using CA with higher-than-normal tp amounts extremely regularly. Considering my take on BLU already, I think multi-hit weapons (and Ridill in particular) are the last things they need.

But here's an interesting perspective: I envy BLU for not being able to equip Ridill. As a Warrior, I'm doomed to know that my effectiveness won't be at it's fullest w/out a Ridill. So in my miserable perfectionist mind, I know that I'll need to spend years camping broken ground NMs and deal with HNMLS drama for years (worse than the camping IMO...) just for a shot at it. Currently, BLU has very little need for all of the worst aspects of the game. While the other 15 jobs struggle with the old world for their ideal equipment, the 3 new jobs are effectively "free."

Before anyone points it out, Salvage really has helped those of us who aren't into HNM activity. I'm looking forward to spending 2 years for my Ares.

[Krondorn]

The point of this thread wasn't actually to debate why BLU does or doesn't need Kraken Club. Especially now that SquareEnix has made it more available, why were BLU, COR, and PUP excluded?

[Karinya]

The real question is not why certain jobs *can't* use kraken club and ridill, but why any jobs *can*. Those items are obviously horribly broken and should have been nerfed or eliminated years ago.

FFXI's overly rigid refusal to nerf items even when they obviously need it is one of the major flaws remaining in the game, IMO. (Along with their equally rigid refusal to reform the 3 kings' pop conditions, which drove quite a few players away from the game altogether, especially before there were so many other endgame activities like Limbus and Salvage.)

Just like the multihit WS nerf, some people will whine, but most will realize that it is necessary for improved game balance. (Actually, multihit WS are still too strong too, but that's another issue.)

[Lmnop]

Especially now that SquareEnix has made it more available, why were BLU, COR, and PUP excluded?

Is it possible that their aim is to eventually nerf multi-hitters? And not letting 3 new jobs use them is 3 less groups of people that will cry about it. To that end, they should've made COR and PUP overpowered at first so everyone would have flocked to the new jobs and not noticed as much that their weapons o' choice were nerfed.

Karinya+1. I agree 100%.

If KC were nerfed, then S-E could finally give DRKs a decent 2hour (instead of currently being quite shitty with add'l effect: Awesome when using broken weapons).

[Akashimo]

DRK 2 hour is best used with SE for 1, deals dmg double as normal melee hit, then the drain effect of the same amount. The two hour fits in with the role of drks spells of absorb and drain to harm the enemy. To chang it would be like changing a whm's to nins. Unless it would to give more of a bonus or increase duritation so it can last more than 3 hits using a scythe.

Back to why the 3 new jobs can't use KC. I'm assuming SE might release something of equalance for them to use but not open for the others. Or a patch that'll put them up to par so it wouldn't be nessarcy to have. Only way we would really know what they got in mind is after they implement it.
Secondly, what purpose would KC serve for those jobs aside from blu? Blu would be the only one to really benefit from having KC since it can use Black Halo. Yet, with the overpoweredness that makes blu, giving KC would just make the others complain to it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Currently, BLU has very little need for all of the worst aspects of the game. While the other 15 jobs struggle with the old world for their ideal equipment, the 3 new jobs are effectively "free.".

Too true, COR being my main job, I have extremely low interest in Sky or Ground NMs now. There's nothing there for me, by and large. RNG is my other high level job, but its of secondary priority to me, so the gear there I can take much more time on.

Anything I'd want mainly comes from Salvage, Assault, pop NMs or Limbus/sea. While some of this may involve rare drops, other parts do offer me tangible returns in the long run. They're more worthwhile to me than going to Dragon's Aery each day for three hours and praying we get claim or, when we get claim, hoping we get the drop.

It does create conflict within shells though, some people have lost interest in sky and ground and want to do these other things, meanwhile others do sky and the newbie endgamers just want to do sky and ground to see what the hype's about.

Salvage is going to change some priorites and with it being tied directly into Assault, there will be those who will want to shift to the instanced content exclusively.

[Lmnop]

DRK 2 hour is best used with SE for 1, deals dmg double as normal melee hit, then the drain effect of the same amount. The two hour fits in with the role of drks spells of absorb and drain to harm the enemy. To chang it would be like changing a whm's to nins. Unless it would to give more of a bonus or increase duritation so it can last more than 3 hits using a scythe.

First off, I don't think Blood Weapon drains as much damage as it did. People always say that though (the dark knights, who won't get a solid test in ballista) and it's known that mob BW does not deal double damage (swing damage + drain damage). People have claimed that maybe player BW works differently, since add'l effect from Bloody Bolts does damage. But that's not what this is about.

2nd off, if they extended BW duration, they'd overpower the already insane KC+BW+SE combo. So instead, you get 3 swings with your Scythe.

My proposition would be for S-E to actually... I can't believe I'm encouraging this... silently nerf it. Currently, it seems KC has a 12.5% chance of swinging any number of times. First update should set it to 30% chance to attack once, with a 10% chance to attack any other number of times. That's pretty drastic in itself, but I still don't like it. 65% chance to attack once, 5% chance to attack 7 times. Now you can let Pup, Corsair, and Blu use it.

Currently, Pup has to coordinate both his and his automaton's tp levels for a self-SC. KC would allow him the ability to only have to worry about his 'maton. This would help keep that in focus.

Corsair well... is better with Joyeuse anyway. :3

Blu would errrr offhand it with a good sword and get silly tp and almost no change in damage dealt. Hummm no matter how you spin it, I hate BLU + multi-hitter. Oh well, with my suggested nerf, they would probably get a little under 20% extra tp in that set-up, or about 35% extra with it main-handed as /thf and using black halo. Meh, wouldn't be too bad suddenly.

Real reason: baby steps. If you have an anti-direct-nerf policy, you start all jobs nerfed and slowly increase/provide access. This, of course, creates stigmas in the minds of sheep. Hello lolDRG. And I see you brought your new buddy, lolPUP. (I'm referring to what people call them. Not what I feel of their abilites.)

Oh, Ridill should get knocked down to 50/25/25 for chances of hitting once, twice, and thrice respectively. Joyeuse has it's own drawbacks so I don't mind it just as it is (50/50). Until the 2nd nerf of course, which sets Ridill @80/10/10. That one should put Joy toy to 70/30 or 75/25.

[Vyuru]

Before anyone points it out, Salvage really has helped those of us who aren't into HNM activity. I'm looking forward to spending 2 years for my Ares.


Ditto, not just that, but some of it looks better than the God armor, all without camping mobs for hours on end!

But on the topic, what if SE is going to release a KC/Ridill like weapon obtained through Salvage/ToAU HNM/other method? I'm sure there is alot of new content that hasn't been released yet, and it would kind of make sense to me to not give a job access to a weapon if you are going to give them a similar weapon later.

I really don't know, but is there any job that could use both a KC and a Ridill effectively at the same time? And not for a special attack such as Blood Weapon + SE?

[Caspian]

I really don't know, but is there any job that could use both a KC and a Ridill effectively at the same time? And not for a special attack such as Blood Weapon + SE?
Don't think so. Ridill slows downt the tp gain of KC, since it can't hit as many times. The main job that "needs" Ridill is WAR and I've read many say that KC is not good for WARs in merit parties.
I think the few jobs that do DW with one of these weapons, uses their normal weapon mainhand for ws's.

[Drive]

I wish I could at least use Seiryu's Sword on Blu. My falchion/scimitar weapon selection isn't bad but still why no Seiryu's Sword?

[Karinya]

DRK 2 hour is best used with SE for 1, deals dmg double as normal melee hit, then the drain effect of the same amount.

Wrong, I've tanked it any number of times. Like the spell Drain, the drain message describes how much HP was gained by the DRK. No additional damage is dealt to the target. (When the target is you, it's pretty obvious whether you're taking double damage or not.)

To slightly confuse the issue, Ix'aern DRK really does deal more damage while Blood Weapon is active, but it's not from the added effect - his normal damage increases noticeably during BW. (New Sentinel can help quite a bit with this, though.)

But Dynamis DRKs and other mobs with BW don't deal any extra damage from the drain effect. (Fortunately - otherwise one crit from Scox, let alone a quadrastrike, would oneshot anyone it hit.)

The two hour fits in with the role of drks spells of absorb and drain to harm the enemy. To chang it would be like changing a whm's to nins. Unless it would to give more of a bonus or increase duritation so it can last more than 3 hits using a scythe.

I don't think it really needs to be changed, either. Maybe add a +acc effect so that you don't have the frustrating experience of miss, miss, miss, effect wears off. Otherwise, though, it can save your ass and comboes great with souleater/last resort even without a broken weapon.

Maybe it should include weaponskills, though. That seems really strong, but 2hrs *should* be really strong.


May I also add, using a kclub in any way in a party situation is very selfish. Almost always someone else will suffer the consequences of you feeding the mob insane amounts of TP (either getting hit with the WS, or having to cure the damage/remove the effects, etc.) so that you can get more TP for yourself.

If you're using it solo, then the consequences will be on your own head, which is usually enough to dissuade anyone with a lick of sense (after the first couple times they get nailed as a result). But don't make your party members clean up your mess.

[Akashimo]

Yea, BW should work on ws like you said. As for the double dmg, I probally got confused from fighting a drk nm cause i rarely lvl my own just from being busy with my other jobs =x.

Though, KC really seems better for a person whos gonna be casting a lot during a fight and wants to keep with TP gain, i.e a pld, nin/blm, rdm, blu and whm.

[Omniblast]

Kraken club should be whm onry.

[Akashimo]

Kraken club should be whm onry.
Quote of the day :3

[Neomage]

That would be fun. I mean, outside of Kraken Club, what job actually USES clubs?

[Karinya]

PLD has A club, so could use them on enemies weak to blunt, but most PLD aren't skilled up in club and their club selection is generally lousy (aside from Morganstern). Aside from that, it's just wands for stats AFAIK.

[Akashimo]

PLD has A club, so could use them on enemies weak to blunt, but most PLD aren't skilled up in club and their club selection is generally lousy (aside from Morganstern). Aside from that, it's just wands for stats AFAIK.
There are some good maces for paladins around, generally Darksteel Mace, Dominion Mace, Buzdygan, Jadagna & Reserve Captian's Mace.
But, club is best for white mage aside from wanting to use the Moonlight, since white mages get the best club ws, hexa strike :3 and Sword is usually best for paladins cause of Swift Blade, Vorpal Blade and Savage Blade.