Newbie WHM search comment questions

[Saren]

Just before I start I wanted to say the board is great, its given me a lot of very useful reading.

Hi all. I am sorry if this is in the wrong place or a repeat (I searched but didn't find anything that really answered what I wanted to ask) I was wondering if someone could answer a few (read several) questions for me please.

To explain: I am new, I am level 13 and am sorting a few final things out before I head off to the Dunes to try and learn to party. Not to get evangelical about it but I do NOT want to be powerlevelled, at all, period.

So really my questions are what is helpful for a White Mage to put in a search comment?

Should I put what weapon I am using in? My various magic skill levels? The fact that I have all my spells? Is it a good idea to put a 'No PL parties please' in, power levelling sounds pretty common in the dunes.

Also which of the comments do I fill in. In exp party where is a 'find member' comment and a 'seek party' comment and another one which I forget. What is the difference? When do they show?

Sorry about the barrage.

Saren.

[Lunaryn]

Just before I start I wanted to say the board is great, its given me a lot of very useful reading.
Hi all. I am sorry if this is in the wrong place or a repeat (I searched but didn't find anything that really answered what I wanted to ask) I was wondering if someone could answer a few (read several) questions for me please.
To explain: I am new, I am level 13 and am sorting a few final things out before I head off to the Dunes to try and learn to party. Not to get evangelical about it but I do NOT want to be powerlevelled, at all, period.
So really my questions are what is helpful for a White Mage to put in a search comment?
Should I put what weapon I am using in? My various magic skill levels? The fact that I have all my spells? Is it a good idea to put a 'No PL parties please' in, power levelling sounds pretty common in the dunes.
Also which of the comments do I fill in. In exp party where is a 'find member' comment and a 'seek party' comment and another one which I forget. What is the difference? When do they show?
Sorry about the barrage.
Saren.
The most useful thing you can put in your search comment is the number of experience points you need to level. This helps party leaders manage the party's level split. At dunes levels there's not really much else to put in there. You can put a comment about not wanting a PL in there, but people who rely on PLs probably aren't reading the search comments of those they're inviting anyway...

[Jei]

Yea your tnk, or @, or current exp/max exp is the most common thing to be there. Later on you should put places you can go in there too.

And put in something to advertise yourself.... I prefer some friendly face =^.^= but some people prefer to put their stat bonus and spells in there. Which is fine for Whm I think if you put "Erase/haste OK" there...

weapon, I think each jobs have their expectation about what weapon they should be using. Not so important I think.... Some poeple put in rare gears they have, but I never take it into my consideration when I invite people really. I care more about the friendliness in their comments.

I don't care about magic skill levels. I only care if mages cast their spells they should be casting.

About PL, I don't know.... chances are, if you're invited as Whm, the PT probably will not have a PL. Because they need healer. Saying "no PL" is a bit extreme these days because dunes PT without PL is as rare as Kraken Club now.

Maybe not a good example because Kraken club isn't that rare actually.

[Saren]

Thankyou both :)

[Mhurron]

Just don't put in your search comments that you're probably going to kill your party because you're kind of new.

[Auron517]

When in the Dunes, do put stuff like TNL, but it's also nice to advertise yourself when you can. When I was there, I put up the fact that I had a Pilgrim's Wand and was packing Pineapple Juice. These things aren't a necesity, but it will give you an edge over other healers without a proper /seacom.

As for the No-PL Issue, any new Whitemage that wants to level without a PL has my respect. I chose to level in this manner...and honestly, leaving the Dunes would have come sooner, had I not, but the skill you gain more than makes up for it.

Putting "No PL Please" in your comment is a must, but at times won't help at all, because Group Leaders will send you an invite anyways, and then get mad when you want to leave because they brought a PL. It is slightly more difficult, but it is possible. It's up to you to decide wheter or not the skill you'd gain is worth your playtime.

[Shiyume]

My last go through the Dunes as a whm was rough. I had played the job to that point already on another account, which was good because every single party I got into had a PL. In fact, you'll find its almost -assumed- someone in the party is PLing. I don't leave over it because honestly I don't have that much time and I take what I can get. It is, of course, usually an easy way to get out of the Dunes fast.

However, I have also had wipes due to the PT relying on PL's too much. The PL can't see everyone's HP, so they might miss something and things can go very bad very fast. I've also had nice PLs that respected my whmness and only acted in emergencies. This I don't have a problem with, because the Dunes are dangerous at a time when you're still learning and if you can be spared death that's okay. But too many PTs use PLs as a crutch and this really is the worst for whms who can't learn how to heal well, and PTs end up dying more later on.

So, its good you're not taking the easy way out, but you should be ready to have a lot of PLs. My recommendation is if you're going to talk to your PT about it, don't approach it abrasively. Just tell them that you need to learn how to heal and such, because if you start an argument straight out it wont end well for anyone.

Good luck!

[Sabaron]

WHM is the class that suffers the most from PLs. The most recent update also quietly "fixed" the best way to skill up healing, so healing skill up is now only possible in PT or versus hostiles. The old method was to find non-aggressive IT++ mobs and heal them. This has been blocked without any notice from SE. PL'ing on a WHM will basically have the effect of eating into your Healing Skillups (and Enhancing too if the PL is throwing buffs on which they usually do). As a WHM, the worst way to level is PL'ed. When you receive and invite, make sure you let the leader know all the info you've put in your search comment b/c sometimes they won't be looking at it. When an existing PT is seeking a WHM, a lot of times, the leader will invite you in order to lock out other invites and then ask... This is very rude, but it happens a lot. I usually accept blind invites and then, once I've had a chance to look at the PT, just give them a blind disband. There's no reason they should deserve an explanation from me when I was rudely "drafted" into join their party.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

WHM is the class that suffers the most from PLs. The most recent update also quietly "fixed" the best way to skill up healing, so healing skill up is now only possible in PT or versus hostiles. The old method was to find non-aggressive IT++ mobs and heal them. This has been blocked without any notice from SE. PL'ing on a WHM will basically have the effect of eating into your Healing Skillups (and Enhancing too if the PL is throwing buffs on which they usually do). As a WHM, the worst way to level is PL'ed. When you receive and invite, make sure you let the leader know all the info you've put in your search comment b/c sometimes they won't be looking at it. When an existing PT is seeking a WHM, a lot of times, the leader will invite you in order to lock out other invites and then ask... This is very rude, but it happens a lot. I usually accept blind invites and then, once I've had a chance to look at the PT, just give them a blind disband. There's no reason they should deserve an explanation from me when I was rudely "drafted" into join their party.

So that's what happened to Healing Magic skill lol. I was like "wtf! I can't spam cure in my downtime while lfg to raise my skeelz0rz. what gives?" Right now my healing magic is 10points below cap. I never had the problem in the past when I played WHM to 75. Starting over a new character these days on FF11 is like playing in a whole new world. It's funny though, because the experience is rewarding in most aspects and just perplexing in alot of others, considering I was use to playstyle from the days right after NA launch. w :)

Anyways, welcome Saren to the FFxionline forums. :) It's nice to always have new people and feel free to post as you wish. However, alot of veteran members post here so, from time to time, you may get the notorious "use the search function" reply in your posts if they are about common, general, and notorious questions about FF11.

Don't let that sway you however, everyone is really awesome here. If you have any questions about WHM, Icemage is your man. He's been here quite a long time and is sort of legendary when it comes to WHM playing style. lol There's several others also that help out, so ask away.

In my own response to your question, I'd like to add that including how much MP you have total can also help you. When I lfg these days on my galka, playing a whm, I have to include how much MP I have, what tyep of juice I'm using and that I am an experienced player. I get pt invites like a snap and have no trouble being a galka. I usually get lots of "ooOos and aaaahs" about my MP pool too. I worked to make sure its high.

YES EVEN GALKAS CAN BE MAGES TOO. muahahah

[Saren]

Thanks for all the advice :) I have a much better idea what to put in now.

Shinhiryu_Kage - Thanks for the welcome :). I solemnly pledge to continue to use the search function and Icemage had sort of jumped out as someone whose posts are worth paying attention to :P

The only thing that no one has really answered and sorry if its being stupid but....why are there three different comment boxes for exp parties? Does anyone know what the difference is between them?

[Icemage]

Quick tips on important things to include in search comments:

- XP to next level (usually phrased as "@<some number>" so if you're 1500 XP to your next level, you'd put "@1500". This is a common abbreviation understood by almost all players, Japanese, North American, and European alike.

- Your current home point. This is usually phrased "HP: <location>". This is useful once you pass around level 30 when everyone just goes off and does their own thing while looking for parties.

- State your available subjobs. You don't have to mention their levels if they're high enough to be capped. So if you're a level 27 White Mage with 15 levels of Black Mage and 13 levels of Red Mage, you can say "SJ: /BLM, /RDM" in your comment. Also be sure to mention non-standard subjobs that still work if you have them properly levelled, such as /BRD.

- If you have the ability to instantly warp back to your Home Point, that might be worth putting in, especially if your HP is in a convenient place like Jeuno or Aht Urhgan Whitegate. As a WHM, you'll "probably" not need to do this once you hit level 34, since chances are you'll be using a Black Mage subjob and thus have the Warp spell available to you.

- If you think there's a lot of competition for your party slot, put something in to set you apart from the crowd - either a cool comment, funny emoticon, a brag sheet about useful gear (useful = elemental staves, vermillion cloak, etc. not Astral Ring).

- If you are currently in immediate risk of being level capped at 50, 55, 60, etc. because you have not cleared the appropriate limit break quests, make sure to note it in your comment. For instance, if you're @3000 to 51, but have not cleared Limit Break 1 to rise above 50, you should put "G1: X" in your comment to tell people you have not cleared Genkai 1 for access to level 51-55. (Genkai = Japanese term for limit breaks). If you HAVE cleared the appropriate quest, then use "Gx: O" to indicate you're done with the limit break in question (i.e. "G3: O").

- If you're in a level range that demands special zone access either due to quests or access to expansion content, make sure you note what zones and teleportation crags you can access at your current level. Noteworthy areas that apply are Kazham in the 23-30 range, the Altepa gate crystal in the 32-38 range, and probably a handful of other zones that I've forgotten about. Rule of thumb for this is to do a "/sea all ##-##" for people in your immediate level range. If you don't recognize one of the zones they're in, check on http://www.ffxi-atlas.com and see if you need anything special to go there.

- Noteworthy spells that you have access to. Erase at level 32 WHM is a selling point. Teleport-Altep in the 44+ range is also useful at times. Raise II at 56, Raise III at 70 round out the WHM-specific list of useful magics you should definitely remind potential invitees about.


Icemage

[Illuen]

WHM is the class that suffers the most from PLs. The most recent update also quietly "fixed" the best way to skill up healing, so healing skill up is now only possible in PT or versus hostiles. The old method was to find non-aggressive IT++ mobs and heal them. This has been blocked without any notice from SE. PL'ing on a WHM will basically have the effect of eating into your Healing Skillups (and Enhancing too if the PL is throwing buffs on which they usually do). As a WHM, the worst way to level is PL'ed. When you receive and invite, make sure you let the leader know all the info you've put in your search comment b/c sometimes they won't be looking at it. When an existing PT is seeking a WHM, a lot of times, the leader will invite you in order to lock out other invites and then ask... This is very rude, but it happens a lot. I usually accept blind invites and then, once I've had a chance to look at the PT, just give them a blind disband. There's no reason they should deserve an explanation from me when I was rudely "drafted" into join their party.

WTF? When/How did they change it? I loved being able to completely cap Healing Magic with an hour or two to spare and a colibri to follow x.x

[Sabaron]

The very last update (December). I was skilling heal day before update... Came back... LS mate trying to do same thing, (he does this frequently as most WHM did) didn't work...

[Aksannyi]

Oh man, that sucks about the healing magic thing. So I can't even spam the hell out of it on the Airship anymore? Is it the same for enhancing magic, as well? I used to spend my entire Airship rides casting all of my buffs until I ran out of MP (which, as RDM, is almost impossible to do!).

Why the hell would they change that? What was it hurting for us to skill up outside of a party?

[Sabaron]

No, no... It still works if you cast on yourself... It's just not nearly as fast as casting on non-hostile IT mobs. The method was to skill up Healing Magic by casting on IT++ mobs because you skill up at the same rate as you would if you were say... nuking it except that you can't possibly fail and nothing bad can happen to you, so the skillup rate was quite good.

[Jei]

I never know you can skill up like that before D:

[Olorin401]

Something that as helped me get parties at -any- level was noting what languages you can speak, with an example. I only know a little Japanese (mostly from this fantastic thread (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/party-etiquette-fighting-tactics/979-how-join-pt-game-manners-jp-players.html)) and tossing a phrase or two in always helps get parties.

This most recent update also added flag options for French, German and Other to the legacy English and Japanese. So if you happen to know some Spanish, Polish, Chinese, or Italian you should take advantage of it!

[Chveya]

The only thing that no one has really answered and sorry if its being stupid but....why are there three different comment boxes for exp parties? Does anyone know what the difference is between them?


The subcategories of search comments are there to clarify what your comment is referring to. You can use the search function to find people with the specific type of comment you want. In most cases, when lfp, you will probably just use the "Seek Party" subcategory. I don't know if "Find Member" is used very much, since people creating parties don't usually just sit around waiting for others to ask them if they can join. Personally, when I am trying to create a party, I do a /sea all inv ##-##, and look first for people with green dots by their name.

My typical Search Comment as a 33 WHM is like this:

@3581/5800 ~ {food}: {Ginger Cookies}
SJ: BLM RDM ~ JP/EN: OK
{Experience Points} {Yes, please}*

* the brackets mean that those phrases are in auto-translate form. Since you will be partying a lot soon, try to become familiar with the auto-translate function (unless you know Japanese).

I just got Erase, so I might add that next time, but then again I might not. ;)

[Aksannyi]

When it comes to having Erase, I've found that if a party really wants/needs you to have it right away, they'll ask you before they invite you. I've had a few leaders do that in the past. I spent 800k of my hard-earned gil on that spell so I'm very proud to say that I do, in fact, have it. :)

With my Red Mage especially, but also my other mage jobs, I'll include what subs I have available. With RDM sometimes they want me to sub WHM, but I've gotten the odd request for /RDM with either my WHM or BLM in the past so it doesn't hurt to let people know {Sub} {job}: {Black Mage} or {Red Mage} in your /seacom.

[Emurei]

I have nothing but respect for someone that is new and doesn't want a PL. There's hope for this game yet! I normally tell them nicely to help PL my 75 SAM before PLing one of my lower level jobs. New players these days are spoiled by the higher level friends and they generally don't learn anything. So props to you! /Salute

Now an answer to your question

At your level, don't worry about posting your weapons and magic skill levels (Well I never think anylevel is good to post it). @TNL is all that you really need to post and that you don't want a PL. Most people that level still blind invite ya :( When you get higher, post your available subs. Some people invite people with better gear, if you want to put that. I personally would invite someone with witty comment instead of list of their inventory. I like to have fun, not deal with a whinny egotistical kid.

my comment format is usually:

@xxxx TNM/TNL (till next merit/till next level) SJ: xxx|xxx|xxx
<witty comment here>

For example:

@5000 TNM SJ: War|Thf|Rng|Nin
You {/point}! I kill! Rwar!
(¡_¡) {raise}{please} Tiamat {no thanks}

[Saren]

'Make sure you have your exp to next level in and your subjobs when you can later, current home point is nice and while the odd spell listed can be useful for certain landmark spells, listing your equipment etc tends to come across as self important ass' got it, thanks all :)

Special thanks to Icemage (I was starting to wonder about universally understood abbrviations and conventions, there's not a lot of room and trying to use the autotranslate function and the full words was giving me problems) and Chveya for sorting out my 'which box to fill in' issue :)

To everyone who was nice about my no PL thing, thanks. I am not trying to holier than though about it, I would just rather not find out I don't actually have the foggiest what I'm doing when I hit level 30 or so.

[IfritnoItazura]

To be honest, if I'm looking to build in a party in Valkurm Dunes when two WHM's are seaching, one with comment, one without--I'd grab the one with comment ASAP, even if all it says is "@ 1000 TNL".

>_>;

Just knowing you should put stuff in comments already puts you miles ahead of other newbies.

[Aksannyi]

I agree. If I'm being leader (which is rare but it does happen) I'll always invite the person with the comment before I invite the person without one. Rank sometimes plays a role in it, too though. :)

[Necropolis]

Things I put in my search comment are as followed:

Line1: TNL 1/44000 merit points {can I have it?} (lvl 75 no more exp for me ; ;)
Line2: EN/JP OK! {I don't speak any Japanese}
Line3: {Home Point}: {aht urghan}

I use the Auto-Translate as much as possible so that I don't restrict my invites to English players only. I enjoy playing with everyone, and have never had a problem in a majority forgien party.

As to you last question about the three options, that is a feature that is seldom used. If I'm a party leader, I can search for member by a number of means. Generally when trying to find members I just use:

/sea all 74-75 inv

/sea is search
all is all areas
74-75 is the level range of players I'm looking for
inv will restrict the search to people currently seeking a party

If I choose to I can from the menu select search >> comment >> then from there select what I'm searching for in a comment, exp pt, looking for member, other, mission, craft, need made, can make, et cetera.

Most people that I know don't search for members that way to it's really doesn't matter which option you put you comment on (green dot is usually looking for party).

I applaud your "no PL" stance, but I believe it may be inevitable in the course of the game to be PLed at some point. I always use the /blockaid on feature to prevent people outside of the party from curing, hasting, and other using other spells. Be sure to turn it off though if you are waiting for a raise, it was changed in the recent update that you no longer have to be alive to turn this feature off.

When I leveled through the dunes I never payed attention as to weather or not a PL was present, I was so busy finding spells and casting them. I had no idea I could target party members with the Function keys, or how to use a macro >.>;; I was such a newb in those days. /cry

But just ignore the PL, cure when some one needs cures, even if the PL beats you to it, ignore your party telling you to banish banish banish, you'll get divine skill ups!!!!!1111one. I have yet to find a real reason to have divine leveled, yes it adds some damage to banish, yet it lowers resist on flash, but those are two spells that a whm does not use as often. Flash is handy with tanks that need to get shadows up, or plds that need to get a cure in that keep getting interuppted, but I had no problem with resist in normal exp parties.

I find have your healing, enfeebling and enhancing magic skills leveled much more important. The sooner you hit the soft caps for cures the better.

Welcome to FFXI and I hope you enjoy whm as much as I have.

(as a last note, whm weapon in a party doesn't really matter till 51 where you will want the elemental staves, light and dark at least. Whm doesn't melee in parties, ever, never ever. Okay sometimes they do, but please don't be like them, you are much more efficient standing away from the party at the farthest casting range allowed, thats at least one less person to cure after an AoE move.)

[IfritnoItazura]

(as a last note, whm weapon in a party doesn't really matter till 51 where you will want the elemental staves, light and dark at least. Whm doesn't melee in parties, ever, never ever. Okay sometimes they do, but please don't be like them, you are much more efficient standing away from the party at the farthest casting range allowed, thats at least one less person to cure after an AoE move.)

I thought the WHM's get some decent hammers? I don't mind if WHM's take swings at the mobs in exp parties, as long as: A) The WHM is able to keep up with cure, buffs, enfeebling, and status effect removal; B) The monster doesn't have AoE attacks; and, C) There's neither BRD nor COR in the party.

A WHM should have a proper MND+ wand before Lv.51 to increase potency of enfeebling and cure spells, so the hammer can only be used between casting of spells.

Look at it this way: as long as a WHM is doing his mage duty and managing his MP well, if his hammer can hit the mob, then he helps out party with faster kills--if he can't hit the mob, that's just less TP for the monster, and makes little difference to the party anyway. >_>

* * *

On the subject of PL, I'm of the opinion that good PL's are great to have around for beginner parties (up to the jungles, perhaps), even for WHM members.

For example, while PL'ing a friend in Yhoator Jungle last night, I taught the WAR how to SC w/MNK (Red Lotus Blade > Combo for Fusion), and the mages how MB (Fire and Banish). (Told the THF/WAR to use SA + Fast Blade instead of Red Lotus Blade. >_>; )

Also went easy on the cures, preferring to let WHM do the heavy lifting--my cures are for prolonging chains and emergencies--if they watched when I dumped Cure II's instead of Cure I's, they'd know when to cure bomb in the future. (Not that it's hard to figure out.)

Also tried to teach the JP WAR/NIN the Utsusemi: Ichi timing, but the language barrier was difficult to cross. ^_^;

I always insist on the tank voking and keeping the mob in place. I'm also very generous with my praises if I see the party members learning how to do their job better.

Having done all that, I'd like to think I was good for the party members. ^_^;

A PL has substantial sway over a lowbie party, and can use that power to make them more functional. (So the PL can go to bed after an hour of coaching, knowing the party will be just fine.)

Unfortunately, most PL's are idiots. They want the tanks to stop voking--so mobs go everywhere and hit everyone, making it impossible to SA much less SATA, driving the BRD's and the COR's crazy, and making PL'ing itself a major pain since they would then have to keep switch target to get to the people who need the cure bomb thanks to their own stupid idea to tank for the party. >_>

Too bad for my friend's party, another PL showed up, who dropped Cure II whenever anyone's missing more than 30 HP and Cure III on anyone who may possibly be in yellow. Must have driven the WHM in party crazy--but that WHM was very smart, and used MP for enfeebling and regen, as well as for MB Banish on Fusion.

I ended up doing very little curing and mostly acted as a cheerleader. :biggrin:

* * *

How to deal with a good PL: "I think I can handle more curing; would you mind if I try?" A good PL will be more than happy to work with you, whether you want to cure more or skill up enfeebling or divine magic. ;)

How to deal with a bad PL: Use your MP for more enfeebling, enhancing, regen, and MB. Heck, try to MB enfeebs, too. Remember, no PL can beat your curaga's efficiency for mass curing or waking sleeping front line jobs. In short, work around them. :P

[Celeal]

A bad PL can ruin the fun of exp. party.

Last time when I was leveling BLU/WAR in a PL-ed party in Qufim Island, I got a /tell from the PL: "If you { Provoke }, you die."

Not the mention the subjob-less whm have no clue what he is doing (running out of mp even with a PL), and the party insisted of pulling IT+ that DD have acc. issue.

It really killed all my movtivation to level any low level job again.

[cakemeat]

I would totally put something tha 'pimps' yourself out. You might not need to advertise it for whm. But include something like MND+5, and other raw numbers that make you look badass.

[Aksannyi]

A bad PL can ruin the fun of exp. party.

Last time when I was leveling BLU/WAR in a PL-ed party in Qufim Island, I got a /tell from the PL: "If you { Provoke }, you die."

Not the mention the subjob-less whm have no clue what he is doing (running out of mp even with a PL), and the party insisted of pulling IT+ that DD have acc. issue.

It really killed all my movtivation to level any low level job again.
I've had that kind of PL. I was leveling PLD and the PL told me to stop voking. Which meant I was going to be little else than a weak, weak, weak DD. And forget about learning to tank. I tried to talk to them about it but they wouldn't listen.

What pissed me off the most was that it was my husband's PL, and I told him to tell his friend to go away because I knew we were capable of leveling without the PL. I was told that I should be thankful that people want to help. Well, it's nice of you to take time out and all, but I'd rather learn my job the right way, thanks.

[Icemage]

In addition to the TP/AoE/low damage issues mentioned above, the fact is that you never actually need clubs as a WHM. Sure, you can sub NIN at 74+ and take on some pretty tough enemies, but even so your damage ends up being just "OK" unless you're fighting skeletons or magic pots, which are weak to crushing damage, and your accuracy against anything higher than Tough enemies is going to suffer a lot.

In an XP party situation, where you take on VT+, things are much more dire; you'll miss constantly and deal very little damage even when you do land a hit. There's never a situation in an XP party past level 20 where meleeing as a WHM is a good idea - occasionally "OK" against certain enemies, but not really directly beneficial even when you do everything right.


Icemage

[Necropolis]

I thought the WHM's get some decent hammers? I don't mind if WHM's take swings at the mobs in exp parties, as long as: A) The WHM is able to keep up with cure, buffs, enfeebling, and status effect removal; B) The monster doesn't have AoE attacks; and, C) There's neither BRD nor COR in the party.

A WHM should have a proper MND+ wand before Lv.51 to increase potency of enfeebling and cure spells, so the hammer can only be used between casting of spells.

Look at it this way: as long as a WHM is doing his mage duty and managing his MP well, if his hammer can hit the mob, then he helps out party with faster kills--if he can't hit the mob, that's just less TP for the monster, and makes little difference to the party anyway. >_>

* * *

On the subject of PL, I'm of the opinion that good PL's are great to have around for beginner parties (up to the jungles, perhaps), even for WHM members.

For example, while PL'ing a friend in Yhoator Jungle last night, I taught the WAR how to SC w/MNK (Red Lotus Blade > Combo for Fusion), and the mages how MB (Fire and Banish). (Told the THF/WAR to use SA + Fast Blade instead of Red Lotus Blade. >_>; )

Also went easy on the cures, preferring to let WHM do the heavy lifting--my cures are for prolonging chains and emergencies--if they watched when I dumped Cure II's instead of Cure I's, they'd know when to cure bomb in the future. (Not that it's hard to figure out.)

Also tried to teach the JP WAR/NIN the Utsusemi: Ichi timing, but the language barrier was difficult to cross. ^_^;

I always insist on the tank voking and keeping the mob in place. I'm also very generous with my praises if I see the party members learning how to do their job better.

Having done all that, I'd like to think I was good for the party members. ^_^;

A PL has substantial sway over a lowbie party, and can use that power to make them more functional. (So the PL can go to bed after an hour of coaching, knowing the party will be just fine.)

Unfortunately, most PL's are idiots. They want the tanks to stop voking--so mobs go everywhere and hit everyone, making it impossible to SA much less SATA, driving the BRD's and the COR's crazy, and making PL'ing itself a major pain since they would then have to keep switch target to get to the people who need the cure bomb thanks to their own stupid idea to tank for the party. >_>

Too bad for my friend's party, another PL showed up, who dropped Cure II whenever anyone's missing more than 30 HP and Cure III on anyone who may possibly be in yellow. Must have driven the WHM in party crazy--but that WHM was very smart, and used MP for enfeebling and regen, as well as for MB Banish on Fusion.

I ended up doing very little curing and mostly acted as a cheerleader. :biggrin:

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How to deal with a good PL: "I think I can handle more curing; would you mind if I try?" A good PL will be more than happy to work with you, whether you want to cure more or skill up enfeebling or divine magic. ;)

How to deal with a bad PL: Use your MP for more enfeebling, enhancing, regen, and MB. Heck, try to MB enfeebs, too. Remember, no PL can beat your curaga's efficiency for mass curing or waking sleeping front line jobs. In short, work around them. :P
To IfritnoItazura:

Yes whm hammers are okay, but high delay and relativly low damage compared to a DD/tank. And whms need to learn to rest whenever they can, if I was swinging away at a mob in my parties I would be murdering chains unless we had a brd, rdm and cor, plus sanction/nobles refresh. Getting 1 or 2 ticks of mp in will extend a chain and cause much less down time.

Another issue with meleeing whms is proximity is a factor in hate. At level 75 I can Divine Seal + Curaga II from a normal casting distant and pull no hate if I wait till appropriate hate tools have been used. But if I do the same while in melee range I will pull hate like no tomorrow.

If you are unsure of this, think of a pld, right next to the mob the pld casting cures and flash hold hate, while a whm standing away from the party casting the same spells will rarly if ever turn the head of a mob. (Of course pld has other hate tools as well, but you get my general point).

Another example was my Skill up pt last night, we had myself as 75whm/nin, 75 pld/nin, 70war/nin. I was skilling club, pld was skilling clubs/GSword, and war was skilling Gaxe. I was putting out pitiful damage, and for the most part all I cast was Haste/Regen (fairly low hate tools). But if I cast a cure4 or Curaga II while Meleeing the mob, it turned right towards me, where as if I was at a safe distance, it would not have.

But in general mobs you fight will have a move that would make whm melee not a good idea, either AoE, silence, Curse or the fact that the TP given to mob for damage output, its not worth it.

[IfritnoItazura]

(Geez. This is getting really off topic... >_>; )

And whms need to learn to rest whenever they can, if I was swinging away at a mob in my parties I would be murdering chains unless we had a brd, rdm and cor, plus sanction/nobles refresh. Getting 1 or 2 ticks of mp in will extend a chain and cause much less down time.

I think /heal on is situational, though usually the situation does call for getting as much of it as possible.

For example, being really bored while exp'ing on Colibri tonight on RDM, both myself and another RDM in party decided to melee the critters, even after Sanction worn and we never had BRD or COR. MP just wasn't an issue, even though we had only one form of refresh. (We did rest when we get low on MP--even though we didn't really need to, since we have Convert.)

Of course, we both started the night snatching every bit of /heal on time as we could. However, those Colibri's are so weak and we can't enfeeb it beyond Slow, it was too boring just Refresh, Haste, and occasional Cure.

That said, one should always play it safe at the start of the party, and recover as much MP with resting as time permits. Then, if things are going well, see if it's ok to melee if feeling the need to club something.

Another issue with meleeing whms is proximity is a factor in hate. At level 75 I can Divine Seal + Curaga II from a normal casting distant and pull no hate if I wait till appropriate hate tools have been used. But if I do the same while in melee range I will pull hate like no tomorrow.

I don't have a Lv.75 anything, but from what I've observed on WHM and RDM, distance doesn't really matter. Before I discovered that Curaga can be cast on party members instead of just myself, I always ran up to melees for it. After that discovery, I don't, and cast it from the back line. Yet, I noticed no difference in enmity when I switched--I usually get hit for it lowie parties.

If you were hitting the critter, you add a lot of enmity for yourself. Toss on top of that a Curaga II when lot's of people are low in HP, and you can easily get to the top of mob's hate list. It's not about distance--it's about total enmity generation.

(Disclaimer: Never melee'ed on WHM in exp parties myself, even though I don't mind other people doing it when situation permits--I'm not much of a WHM to begin with, so didn't want the distractions. ^_^; )

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Edit:
Just thought of some things I would love to see in WHM search comments in Valkrum Dunes:

Barfira: O Barwatera: O
Barpoisonra: O Silence: O

I couldn't believe the number of WHM's w/out those spells during my last tour in the Dunes. If a WHM knows they are important to have and advertise that, I'd beg and plead for that WHM to join my party.

[Icemage]

Being at extreme range does not help you with enmity on Curaga. You have to be much farther back (farther than it is possible to cast at) to avoid getting enmity for casting a spell, as far as I can tell. It might be possible if one party member is standing at extreme range for curaga and you cast on that person to hit the others with the AoE effect, but that's not something to count on.

---

Barpoisonra is a waste of MP. Poisona is both more effective and more efficient. Barfira, Barwatera, and Silence are very useful spells at low levels, though.


Icemage

[AzeezaofLakshmi]

I am just saying this, But I started PTing in the dunes at 16,not that I have been PLed but I would have to say you would get beat in the dunes. I had that kind of problem wit the Highlands ^^; dont owrry though, I hear the lower levels on Wadi are pretty good for lvling till then. Anyway good luck to you when you get to the dunes.