Bard Foods.. So damn expensive!

[Olorin401]

I've been using Flint Caviar since the Dunes and while the effects are great, it's so expensive! And I can't make my own yet since my cooking skill isn't high enough yet.

I've looked into a few other alternatives (Healing Tea, Tav. Salad) and it's even more expensive. Anyone have some suggestions, or are we entertainers limited to "only the best"?

[Jei]

You don't really need food as bard. Once you're the main puller you might want to eat some CHR food, but you won't be pulling until 50 or so.

I make Taco for a living so I just spare some for my own use lol.

[Olorin401]

You don't really need food as bard. Once you're the main puller you might want to eat some CHR food, but you won't be pulling until 50 or so.
I make Taco for a living so I just spare some for my own use lol.
I'll get to that point.. eventually. I'll be happy if I can get my cooking to 64 by the end of the week! I'm almost to level 50 now though.. I suppose I can save some cash for a while and go with the colored eggs I've been synthing..

[Jei]

I meant Tavnazian taco by the way.

A really cheap CHR food that used to be pretty popular for bards a year ago was San d'Oria tea.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/San_d%27Orian_Tea

[Illuen]

If anything, since I'm assuming you're subbing WHM, I'd eat pies, to boost your MP. It lets you send out a few more cures, which is always useful.

[Mhurron]

I would have thought that most Bards would use MP+ food as MP is going to run out before your singing voice does.

[Yeargdribble]

CHR foods are all but pointless. You can get more than enough CHR in gear at any given level. Outside of the dunes I wouldn't even use pies. If your MP is being counted on enough that you don't have enough max MP, the PT needs a better primary healer. From 25+ your ballad should keep you in enough MP that you'll be able to cast helpful utility spells (primarily -nas and at 32 DS+Curagas). When you start pulling, then is a good time to worry about food (Tav. Tacos ftw).

Post 51 you should have almost 0 trouble landing songs with a balanced build and your trust elemental staves. There are a few resistant mobs pre-51 they may have you wishing to use food (I'm looking at you Anticans), though I'm skeptical as to whether the extra CHR would make enough of a difference in your landing ability to be worth it.


It's hard after playing other jobs (and wishing to play them well) to get used to the fact that BRD doesn't really need food. You may even feel gimp for not using some, but eventually you'll get used to it and you'll also have some extra gil in the bank for more useful things ^^

[Icemage]

I agree with Yeargdribble. CHR foods are a placebo - you don't really need them even with only "decent" gear once you hit level 40+. Up until then, it's somewhat useful to reduce resists, but even then the effect is only marginal.

For pulling, defense foods like Tavnazian Taco are great. For long HNM battles like Tiamat, I prefer -enmity food like Roast Mushroom. Other than that, use whatever - I like using Carbonara for the +HP when squaring off against Dynamis Lord.

P.S. I tried overstocking CHR against Antica in the late 40s. Didn't do much - not even after using Enchanting Etude. Once 51 rolled around though, everything smoothed out with elemental staves.


Icemage

[IfritnoItazura]

If your MP is being counted on enough that you don't have enough max MP, the PT needs a better primary healer. From 25+ your ballad should keep you in enough MP that you'll be able to cast helpful utility spells (primarily -nas and at 32 DS+Curagas).

Care to share your secrets? >_>; (Bard 30 on hiatus here; will return to the job some time around April.)

I often found myself short on MP while playing Bard; I always performed the melee songs before Ballad at the start of fight, but mid fight I often find myself dumping cures on people, at times to the point of getting beat up by the monster. =/

What's the right way to make the party to replace the undergeared tank and the WHM who's melee'ing mandies, goblins, and everything else in the jungles?

(Well, that would have been impossible in my last party--Mr. gimp tank was leader, and the idiot WHM his girlfriend or something--but suppose my luck changes the next time I mule over my BRD gear?)

* * *

I wonder, in the jungles on the mandie levels, would it make sense to eat ginger cookies and just stand in front of the critter (behind the tank) and face it down? I solo'ed half a level on DRK33/WHM16 outside of Kazam, and the Plantoid Killer trait from the cookies proc'ed fairly often, which saved me a lot of MP.

With BRD's higher CHR to enhance the killer trait, would it be worth getting slept for the damage reduction to the tank, if the killer effect works on IT monsters?

[Icemage]

Care to share your secrets? >_>; (Bard 30 on hiatus here; will return to the job some time around April.)
I often found myself short on MP while playing Bard; I always performed the melee songs before Ballad at the start of fight, but mid fight I often find myself dumping cures on people, at times to the point of getting beat up by the monster. =/
My recommendation: Pineapple Juice + Roast Mushroom. The former keeps your MP up, the latter keeps you from being beaten to a pulp.

What's the right way to make the party to replace the undergeared tank and the WHM who's melee'ing mandies, goblins, and everything else in the jungles? (Well, that would have been impossible in my last party--Mr. gimp tank was leader, and the idiot WHM his girlfriend or something--but suppose my luck changes the next time I mule over my BRD gear?)
You're the bard. Threaten to leave if people don't do their jobs (I'm serious, this really does work if you run into an extreme case). While I'm not terribly fond of the way people worship Bards even before they're really "amazing", I'm certainly not above taking advantage of the situation in a good cause. :)

I wonder, in the jungles on the mandie levels, would it make sense to eat ginger cookies and just stand in front of the critter (behind the tank) and face it down? I solo'ed half a level on DRK33/WHM16 outside of Kazam, and the Plantoid Killer trait from the cookies proc'ed fairly often, which saved me a lot of MP.
With BRD's higher CHR to enhance the killer trait, would it be worth getting slept for the damage reduction to the tank, if the killer effect works on IT monsters?
I'm pretty sure Killer effects don't kick in unless you're the target of an attack.

You're not going to have time to stand anywhere specific as a Bard in any case. If Dream Flower is a concern, then your best bet for food might be Tuna Sushi:

Dexterity +3
Charisma +5
Resist Sleep
Accuracy +15%
Ranged Accuracy +15%
HP +20


Icemage

[Deeman]

Tav Tacos ftw.

[Yeargdribble]

Yes, juices will work wonders if MP really is a problem. If you're pulling hate regularly, the tank and the WHM are likely not doing their jobs. At 30 I have a few suggestions fo that.

Talisman Cape has enchantment of MP+12 and enmity-2. I use it on my SMN currently, though my wife used it on BRD. Enmity-2 is pretty hefty at low levels where so little of it is available. This cape onl level 18. Another piece is the Healer's Earring (level 30). It's one of the subjob activated latent effect earrings. Latent is enmity-1 activted by /WHM. The only other options at 30 are things like maybe Energy Earrings, but meh.


For the OP, since you have cooking at 60+, I'd buy stacks of materials for Yag Drinks before leaving. If you have mules that can buy ingredients exclusively from NPCs, Yag are very cheap to make and you can keep 2 or 3 synthed at all times in case of emergency. I'd say they are far more effective than pies, and since you can make them it's all the better.


And like Icemage said, if your PT is sucking, you can leave. I'm not always a fan of being a prima dona about it, but sometimes you can either be assertive about it or end up suffering a miserable PT.

[Jei]

My bard hardly have to cure at all from 20-60. But I guess it depends on your party balance. I always have at least a whm, smn or rdm in my party and they cover the healing need of my party very well.

I started pulling around 53 or so fighting crabs in kuftal. And all my MP went into curing myself and blink/stoneskin.

[Aanya_Ramuh]

I've been using Flint Caviar since the Dunes and while the effects are great, it's so expensive! And I can't make my own yet since my cooking skill isn't high enough yet.

I've looked into a few other alternatives (Healing Tea, Tav. Salad) and it's even more expensive. Anyone have some suggestions, or are we entertainers limited to "only the best"?

pretty soon you should be leveling up on the Sandorian Tea - you can use this to your advantage and save a few since it is considered a food.

As mentioned - you can stack the ingredients for juices as well which help alot - Yagudo drinks are nice and do help out with MP, if you find you are taking a few too many hits, keep a fw of the AuLaits you will be skilling up on for your own regen. By using the food you save your MP for other party members (not to mention you are skilling up cooking too)

You can have a food + juice + milk/aulait on at the same time - and this could also save your mage a small amount of mp since you are regenning and their mp is going for the melee members of the party. Just because the food isnt "the best" doesnt mean it isnt good for your job - if you are skilling up on it.. use it!! cause apparently if you are selling it someone else is too.

And at least you are caring enough about the job to even consider a food.. I still need to look up the newer foods and their effects as well. Maybe there is a better food.

(besides - once you get your burger king crown all your brds happy meals will be pamamas)

[Olorin401]

Post 51 you should have almost 0 trouble landing songs with a balanced build and your trust elemental staves. There are a few resistant mobs pre-51 they may have you wishing to use food (I'm looking at you Anticans), though I'm skeptical as to whether the extra CHR would make enough of a difference in your landing ability to be worth it.
Touching on Elemental Staves for a moment.. I just hit 51 last night and immediately threw on my Apollo's Staff since most of the BRD spells are light-based. Only thing is.. I noticed a big reduction in the amount of time my Elegy and Requiem would stick AND stay stuck (I was fighting crabs in Kuftal). Does the hidden elemental boost really help with BRD's songs, or should I go back to my CHR+ equipment?

[Chilulu]

Touching on Elemental Staves for a moment.. I just hit 51 last night and immediately threw on my Apollo's Staff since most of the BRD spells are light-based. Only thing is.. I noticed a big reduction in the amount of time my Elegy and Requiem would stick AND stay stuck (I was fighting crabs in Kuftal). Does the hidden elemental boost really help with BRD's songs, or should I go back to my CHR+ equipment?

Elegy is earth element. Stick with the staves :)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

When using /WHM, please use MP food (Rolanberry Pies are good). And if a RDM isn't present, please also use juice. Now, refresh doesn't stack with juice, but Ballad and Evoker's Roll do, so with no RDM around, juice is also an option

The misconception people have with /WHM is they think its all for curing. We're not invited for heavy curing, ever, and if you are, just leave the party. Bards can toss out one or two cures in a pinch or per fight, but we're not built for the main healer spot.

But think about what else /WHM's MP can be used for - status removal and bar-spells.

Paralyna, Silena, Blinda, Erase - these four spells can eat a good chunk of any mage's MP when you have mobs that spam status ailments. Do these jobs all a favor and cover these spells for them. After all, a Bard's role is to make a PT more efficient and reduce downtime, this is one other way you can do it.

Elemental Barspells - Use these also for the main healer so they can continue resting at the start of a fight and remain doing so until they're needed to cure. These spells are fast to cast and the cost of the spells won't hurt BRD as BRD's don't have to rest like WHM or RDM would. And any damage reduced from a gobbie bomb or Cursed Sphere is appreciated.

Regen - While you're not expected to cure, Regen does roughly match Cure III in its cumalative MP recovery and costs only 15 MP to cast. With no WHM present in PT and our MP being what it is, this is really the only regen spell you have at your disposal. Paeons aren't terribly practical beyond 20, as you get better AoE buffs, so use Regen when Paeon ceases to be useful.

Pulling

This is a whole other ballgame for BRD. People can say what they want about /WHM not being useful here, but I've pulled as RNG, THF, NIN, COR and BRD. Pulling is a skill and something you have to learn for yourself, simply subbing /NIN doesn't make you a good puller. Its just as much about distance and terrain as it is about tagging/sleeping a mob. If you know the range of your abilites and know the camp, you generally won't be tagged by mobs that much when pulling.

As such, I still recommend MP food and juice and going /WHM to perform the same support as before. I've seen higher chains and a stronger buff cycle from a dutiful BRD/WHM pulling than I ever have from a BRD/NIN, period. Even in TP burn. Even in ToA zones.

CHR Food

Never useful, you get enough CHR as is. And staves make debuffs stick better.

DEF Food

BRD has a lot of access to -% physical defense gear, more than PLD does, actually, so I question the value of Tav. Tacos unless you want to replace a Ring, Back or Ear slot for some other equipment and gain a little CHR back.

Jelly Ring -5% Physical Damage
Earth Staff -20% Physical Damage
Minstrel's Earring - Latent effect (activates with BRD Main job at yellow HP) -30% Physical Damage.

So if damage is a concern, there are other options besides Utsusemi and Tavnazian Tacos. Let's not forget the Melody Earrings (+5 Evasion latent activated by BRD songs) and other evasion gear. You may wish to invest in such gear for future jobs anyway.

[Icemage]

I disagree slightly with having Bards cast Barfira. You generally only use that spell in XP parties against Bomb Toss from Goblins, and the damage from the suicide version of that move is so high that you really want your WHM or RDM to be casting that spell if at all possible to reduce the chance of one-shot KOs on your party.

MP food is useful when /WHM, but only mildly - as with any non-RDM spellcaster, Bard is more about MP recovery than MP capacity (and even that is only true for RDMs because Convert makes their MP capacity count as MP recovery). Juice works better than virtually any other type of food when /WHM if you have sufficient quantities and enough time to restock/synth - rare indeed is the RDM who understands that BRD/WHM can actually make good use of Refresh when it's provided.

I also disagree about BRD/WHM being a better puller than BRD/NIN. It's just not true, given comparable playing skill levels. I play a very good BRD/WHM, but there's no way I can top the performance of the BRD/NINs I merit with - Utsusemi:Ni is just miles and away better than Blink or Stoneskin when pulling as a Bard. With a BRD/WHM puller, you eventually lose your chain due to the Bard being forced to choose between risking taking damage on a bad pull or losing time to Blink and/or Stoneskin. With BRD/NIN, that decision is never at issue since you need a fraction of the time to shore up defenses. If you're seeing higher chains with BRD/WHM, I would have to chalk it up to having less than stellar RDMs who don't know how to handle themselves without a backup healer.

I do agree that CHR is largely a waste of time, though. CHR is somewhat useful in the early levels pre-40, as you really don't get access to tons of CHR gear until then. However, DEF food isn't always a waste - especially when pulling. Bear in mind that, despite the "lots of" -Physical Damage% gear that Bards can use, you can also stack that with high Defense to make the damage even less. When you're in a pulling role, this is an advantageous boost.


Icemage

[Yeargdribble]

Paralyna, Silena, Blinda, Erase - these four spells can eat a good chunk of any mage's MP when you have mobs that spam status ailments. Do these jobs all a favor and cover these spells for them. After all, a Bard's role is to make a PT more efficient and reduce downtime, this is one other way you can do it.

I'll agree with this. The main selling points of /WHM are these spells in addition to the ocassional DS+Curaga (II).

Elemental Barspells - Use these also for the main healer so they can continue resting at the start of a fight and remain doing so until they're needed to cure. These spells are fast to cast and the cost of the spells won't hurt BRD as BRD's don't have to rest like WHM or RDM would. And any damage reduced from a gobbie bomb or Cursed Sphere is appreciated.

I'd only cast barspells if the WHM was being lazy. Their bars are leaps and bounds above ours and this only grows more true the higher you get. You also DO NOT want to over-write barspells cast by a WHM. If they are doing it, let them.

Regen - While you're not expected to cure, Regen does roughly match Cure III in its cumalative MP recovery and costs only 15 MP to cast. With no WHM present in PT and our MP being what it is, this is really the only regen spell you have at your disposal. Paeons aren't terribly practical beyond 20, as you get better AoE buffs, so use Regen when Paeon ceases to be useful.

This is good advice to potentially help out a SMN or RDM main healer, but will just simply piss off a good WHM. I believe your Regen can over-write their higher tier Regens and that's a bad thing. Most good WHMs use Regen quite a bit, so if you have one, it's best not to get in their way.

Pulling

This is a whole other ballgame for BRD. People can say what they want about /WHM not being useful here, but I've pulled as RNG, THF, NIN, COR and BRD. Pulling is a skill and something you have to learn for yourself, simply subbing /NIN doesn't make you a good puller. Its just as much about distance and terrain as it is about tagging/sleeping a mob. If you know the range of your abilites and know the camp, you generally won't be tagged by mobs that much when pulling.


Pulling at max distance may save you against something like Flans, but it's not gonna do much for you against quicker mobs. BRD can't get the distance that a Ranger can from mobs so it doesn't save us much... at least not enough to profess that BRD/WHM > BRD/NIN for pulling.

I'll agree that just slapping on /NIN doesn't make you an instantly uber puller. The best BRD/WHM can always perform better than the worst BRD/NIN, but a well skilled BRD in general will perform better with /NIN in fast moving TP burns.

As such, I still recommend MP food and juice and going /WHM to perform the same support as before. I've seen higher chains and a stronger buff cycle from a dutiful BRD/WHM pulling than I ever have from a BRD/NIN, period. Even in TP burn. Even in ToA zones.

We obviously don't go to the same caliber of PTs. In a fast moving TP burn you simply can't keep up with the speed. The mobs are alive an average of 20 seconds. Like Icemage said, you'll eventually have to choose between losing the chain or risking a death.

I generally Pull -> Song -> Pull -> Song constantly while throwing up utsu as I can. The kills are often so fast that I have to make another pull and skip a buff in my cycle and compensate by double pulling or linking on purpose.

I think BRDs that say they can effectively keep up Blink and Stoneskin, help keep people -na'd/Erase, throw out Curagas, keep up 4 songs and pull non-stop are just lying. It's just impossible to do in the the span of time offered in the PTs I'm accustomed to. Essentially, a BRD/WHM PT may be able to keep the chains, but things will slow down including the XP/hr.

My wife has main healed (WHM/SMN) for my TP burns quite often and she strongly prefers BRD/NIN. She says it ends up costing her more in the long run MP wise if I'm BRD/WHM even if I am helping throw out cures. In the majority of our PTs she rarely falls below 500 MP. She can easily keep up with all of the -nas/Erases and cures by herself.

Also, suggesting using an MP food instead of using Tavnazian Tacos seems a little ridiculous for this considering the Tacos have HP and MP on them as well as VIT and +25% DEF. You will get far more out of Tav Tacos if you insist on pulling BRD/WHM.

Minstrel's Earring - Latent effect (activates with BRD Main job at yellow HP) -30% Physical Damage.

Actually it activates at 25% HP (and less than 100% TP for what it's worth). It could potentially go off when you are beging crit'd into the red and may save you from a one-shot kill from low orange to 0 HP from a Skoffin, but aside from that, it offers very little outside of tanking. However, being as there are few alternatives in a reasonable price range, it may be worth using to cover a slot.

You also neglected to mentio the Cheviot/Umbra Cape. NQ is -5% PD. HQ has -12% a night (6% in the day), though both are prohibitively expensive for most BRDs and giving up 10 CHR in a single slot can be quite a blow to your overall CHR level.

So if damage is a concern, there are other options besides Utsusemi and Tavnazian Tacos. Let's not forget the Melody Earrings (+5 Evasion latent activated by BRD songs) and other evasion gear. You may wish to invest in such gear for future jobs anyway.

BRD evasion, being low as it is, won't allow us dodge much. If it's T or higher, we just won't evade even with a heavy evasion build. Mobs being pulled for any type of XP will hit us about 95% of the time regardless of our evasion build.

[IfritnoItazura]

rare indeed is the RDM who understands that BRD/WHM can actually make good use of Refresh when it's provided.

It's not that rare. >_>

If a player is using MP productively, it means the RDM in party would then have less things to do. So, if a BRD/WHM is contributing substantial support healing, you can bet gils that I'm tossing Refesh at them. (Or at least trying to--BRD's tend to have a annoying habit of running out of my casting range, especially on mobs with AoE attacks so Curaga from them are highly desirable.)

If the almost-as-busy-as-a-RDM Bard wants to be busier, I support it fully, with a Refresh in every cycle. :thumbsup:

I'd only cast barspells if the WHM was being lazy. Their bars are leaps and bounds above ours and this only grows more true the higher you get. You also DO NOT want to over-write barspells cast by a WHM. If they are doing it, let them.

Hmm. I can't remember if you can override bar-spells cast by players with higher skill. Should be easy to test, if I'm not so lazy.

I believe your Regen can over-write their higher tier Regens and that's a bad thing.

This is false. I had parties with quite a few not-so-great WHM's already; with their sporadic Regen II's, my RDM's Regen I ended up with "no effect" from time to time. (Not often enough to allow me to stop using Regen, unfortunately--I used Regen more frequently than WHM's, three out of my last five parties with them.)

* * *

For my Bard (Lv.30), it was pretty much
1. Good Party = Pie + juice (worth the expense)
2. Great Party = Chai Tea i(they didn't need me to heal, and I can happy with the CHR+2 placebo effect for three hour costing only 70 gil...)
3. Bad Party = Ginger Cookies (I had time to rest and the need to use a lot of MP... /sigh)