DRG Elitist BS

[Greylynx]

Something unbelievable happened to me this week. I was so enraged by it that I actually cancelled my content ID right after it happened. I'm out. However, I really want to hear what my fellow DRGs think about this. Sorry for the length guys its a long post.

I joined an Assault LS, with then intention of having fun and getting some good DRG gear. I really wanted a Chiv. Chain and a Potent Belt. Here is my settup:

DRG61/WAR30
Weapon: GKL
Head: AF
Neck: Spike Necklace (Mermans Gorget is Acc is a problem)
Ear: Spike Earring x2
Hands: AF (Battle Gloves if Acc is a problem)
Body: Scorpion Harness
Waist: Lifebelt
Legs: AF (Have the Bastokan Subligar but I like the extra 10% HP for Eisey)
Feet: AF

I am a firm believer that my Wyvern is a solid contribution to the party damage, hence some of the AF (like the gloves). The AF feet is because I steal hate ALOT and I find that High Jump w/ boots is enough usually to put hate back on tank.

Ok so the following conversation takes place as we are getting ready for the 3rd Assault for the night.

(I am checked by a level 70 DRG in our party. I am not going to name anyone though. Please note this conversation takes place IN THE LS CHAT)
lvl70DRG: Whats with all the AF?
Me: Excuse me?
lvl70DRG: I hope you don't XP with that gear.
Me: Whats wrong with it?

(At this point the whole party checks me of course.)

lvl70DRG: There is much better stuff like Battle Gloves, Bastokan Subligar and Valk/Walk Mask.
Me: Yeah I have that stuff except the mask, but I use it when te situation warrents it.
lvl70DRG: I hate DRG like you, you give us all a bad name.
Me: Nobody can ruin your reputation but yourself. Don't worry about what others think.
Me: Besides, you should party with someone before you decide how good or bad they are.
lvl70DRG: Gimp *** DRG like yourself ruin this game for those of us that don't suck
Me: Do you mind not contiuing this conversation in LS chat?

(At which point people in the LS start complaining, and even threating to blist ME! I should point out that other then the officers in this LS, everyone else seemed to think I didn't belong there. Funny since the membership requirement is lvl50 and I had to apply to get in)

The assault begins, and I am told by the entire party to sit and wait in the corner until its done.

I was taught that DRG is like a brotherhood and we stick together. So WTH? The worst part is that there are a whole lot more of these high level elitist pricks in the game then normal people it seems. When did people forget that this a game and we are all supposed to have fun?

Anyway this was the final straw for me. The game seems more like a chore sometimes then anything and I don't feel like paying $12.95 to be harassed. I just wish it didn't have to end on such a sour note. Not sure why I posted this.... maybe just looking for some reassurance that not everyone is such a prick in this game.

[Mog]

Wow.

This guy sounded like a real asshole kid. Why do you respond to people like that? In the case that someone harrasses me, I either ignore them or GM them. As with real life, you kinda have to deal with these people.

Funny story of myself. I was turning in yag necklaces with a taru friend of mine and this line of tarutarus come toward us. I say "Tarutaru Power" and this hume that was standing near us said "FU" in say. I didn't respond to the n00b because he wasn't worth my time, but my taru friend did a nice emote right before we teleported.

***** flips off hume and teleports away.

I asked her why she did that. She didn't really tell me, but she got a /tell from the hume, saying that tarutarus are the shit of the earth. Truthfully, some people in this game are not worth looking at/talking to. Just being around them will make you descend to their level.

Anyways, I'm sorry you felt the need to cancel the game because of one moronic person in-game. This game is meant to be fun, not to be harrassed by kids.

[eticket109]

Personally, I don't think I wore much of the AF set in XP at all. I think the gloves were the only piece I used regularly. I don't remember though. I typically only worry about wyvern hp+ stuff if I sub mage for something as party deaths aren't much of an issue usually with spirit link and the short call timer.

I can understand why he thought you were gimped I guess but that was a pretty shitty way to go about voicing his opinion. You were better off leaving the shell. I doubt I would have left the game over something like that but it seems from your post that you were looking for an escape from the game and found it.

Good luck and all the best in real life.

[Raydeus]

Well you gotta understand most high lvl linkshells revolve around gear and bragging rather than fun (it becomes like a job really).

Also, one would think DRG is worst jobs to level up, I guess they must have the Purple Curse or something, and some of the DRG that do make it to lvl 75 are so bitter and emo that they will bash others like that guy did to you.

He is blaming you for all the times he didn't get invites to a party and got told he (in this case for being a DRG) sucked, he was gimp etc. etc. Those bitter players blame lack of uber gear for a situation that has more to do with player perspective and playstyle than anything else, but not much you can do about it.

You shouldn't quit the game just because of that though, if you have fun with your job you can even solo to 75 if you have to, and if all you need is a better LS there are thousands of players in the server and most of them aren't like that guy just gotta get to know more people. Now, if you aren't having fun anymore with the job then you can take a break or play other jobs or do something else from the hundreds of things to do in game. :thumbsup:

[Jei]

D:

Don't let 1 random bullshit ruin your game. I'm sure you have tons of other good friends playing.

[Greylynx]

I can understand why he thought you were gimped I guess but that was a pretty shitty way to go about voicing his opinion. You were better off leaving the shell. I doubt I would have left the game over something like that but it seems from your post that you were looking for an escape from the game and found it.


The whole DRG AF sucks thing is beyond me really. Why does it suck? Because everyone on allah says it does? I mean lets think about it:

Gloves: +10% ACC for Wyvern. Considering I have +40 ACC and I am eatting sushi its not like I need the ACC from the battle gloves, right? Maybe a good thing for this slot would be some of the NM gigas braclets though.

Legs: +10% HP for Wyvern = +10% Damage on his breath attack (or +10% healing on his Healthing breath). I don't think thats insignificant.

Feet: With AF Feet on, I find that High Jump is usually enough to turn hate back on tank (which happens alot, especially with Ninja tank, when Berserk is on, or fighting something weak to piercing,) so this means I can go all out without holding back as I can now shed hate twice in 3 minutes (w/ Super Jump too of course). This is also nice when a THF plants SATA on me, and I can jump it off without worrying about timers.

So if you think about it, its not really that bad huh?

On your second point, about looking for a reason to leave, you caught me actually. Gilsellers have pushed me out of my trade, most of the high level people are pricks, the game was eating into my personal life and even my job, and frankly "endgame" was only going to get worse. I thought Assault would be a good psuedo-endgame activity without the stress, drama, and time commitment (which is BTW what SE intended assault to be) but its turns out its the same old BS.

[Lmnop]

I noticed you didn't list rings >.>

as long as they have a +3 or higher on them, you're good.

Seriously, you have an SH and GK lance. There is no reason to call you gimp on that grounds. I have something to break to you though: I find those sorts of LSs to often be nothing but pricks. LSs seem to be always 88% nice or 88% dicks. You never know 'til an event like that comes up.

btw, this game has a pretty horrid community. I guess I really don't have any experience with other MMOs, but I never realized before this game just how easy it is to become one of the ignorant masses. People get to level 75 easier than um... something really easy. But then they think they know everything, and everyone else believes them. So before you know it, all the idiots who rushed to 75 are somehow "in the know" about shit they don't understand in the least. Enter KI, entertaining misinformation for the common folk.

Honestly, I wish more of us could quit. It's likely the better move.

I was surfing City of Heroes boards... the game devs even post along with the players. Can you imagine?

[Celeal]

Well, something is wrong with that player... err... how to describe it? My way or the highway?

I guess you just entered a wrong LS. If play an Assault, I expect to play in that Assault and to have fun, instead of waiting in a corner. I play this game for fun, and I value "fun" over those gear.

Those people are sad... play for $12.95 each month, to be a slave of those gear, which is just a digital number... :wtf:

/comfort

Don't let those sad people affect you.

[Greylynx]

I noticed you didn't list rings >.>

as long as they have a +3 or higher on them, you're good.

Seriously, you have an SH and GK lance. There is no reason to call you gimp on that grounds. I have something to break to you though: I find those sorts of LSs to often be nothing but pricks. LSs seem to be always 88% nice or 88% dicks. You never know 'til an event like that comes up.


I knew I was forgeting something. My rings are the +3 STR ring (Puisannce Ring? I forget the name....) and the +5 ATT Assailants Ring.

Yeah I was spoiled in that my social LS is awesome. I just can't comprehend why people in the rest of the game aren't. ITS A GAME. Its supposed to be fun.

[Caspian]

The guy was a dick, no doubt about it. If he really wanted to discuss what he thought was bad judgment on your part in respect to your equipment, he could've done it in tells and been a lot more respectful.
In respect to your gear itself:
Legs: +10% HP for your wyvern, not as needed in pt situations. Spirit Link should be able to cover you unless he just gets massive hate and starts getting his tail handed to him. Other than that, the 10% breath attack could be macro'd in on WS's.
Feet: I really don't know what other more common options are here, but again the best things about it could be macro'd in for WS's and Jumps.
Just to be clear, he shouldn't have handled it the way he did, and you're right, he is a prick. If you wanted to leave, then I wish you the best, but don't let one jerk run you from a game you might have otherwise enjoyed.
Anyway, you already said you planned to leave anyway, so good luck in all things RL.

[DakAttack]

Dragoons who attempt to be elitist are the ones that buy gil. If you're not humbled by level seventy, you havn't been playing like other people.

[tdh]

I'm sorry you had to leave on such a sour note, but it does look like you just needed that one thing to let you leave.

I've actually been kicked from a party because I showed up to an EXP camp wearing my DRK AF. I only wear the feet, but since I have to carry it, I at least wear it walking around. Before I could even switch to my actual EXP gear, they booted me. I was collecting the rest of my gear when I got the invite, so I had some random crap on to store my gear. They booted me before the first pull, and not even a "do you EXP in that?" DRK AF is pretty useless, I travel in it so it actually gets used. lol

I put on my EXP gear, and /sigh at them. Give them a minute to /check me to see that I'm actually pretty well equiped and Warp out. I suddenly get /tells asking me to come back.

30 minutes later the RDM who objected to kicking me, told me they grabbed a super crappy WAR who wasn't really keeping up their end of the damage.

As the saying goes, "shit happens." Sometimes you just have to duck and dodge.

[LilithAngel]

Dragoons who attempt to be elitist are the ones that buy gil. If you're not humbled by level seventy, you havn't been playing like other people.HAHAHA :biggrin: That is so true! I'm surprised *any* Dragoon even thought of attempting to act like that, but I suppose I'm looking at the game through the eyes of a Dragoon that came up in the old days. Man, you kids these days...

But I digress. Yeah, the prick was way outta line. I *wish* that DRG was on my sever so I could tear him a new one; we *are* a brotherhood, and we've had to work damn hard to earn our respect in the community (with a good bit of help from SE). It's guys like *him*, not you, that give us a bad name. Leaving the game over what one person said? Your choice, but if I decided to do the same, I'd have never gotten my Dragoon to 75 and load it up with nice stuff from Limbus. (BTW, you see the two victories listed in my sig? Two fights that most people usually bring super heavyweight MB/TPB jobs to, ususally not Dragoons. Yeah, both are fights that were ended by my lance. Yes, that's right, by my *lance*. The lance of a Dragoon. :thumbsup:)

As for the gear you listed: the issue with our AF isn't that it sucks, it's that it's mostly situational, and the improvements to our wyvern are marginal at best vs. any improvements that can be made directly to ourselves. You could slightly improve the wyvern's accuracy, or you could drasticlly improve your own attack (and thus, damage) by wearing Spiked Finger Gauntlets. Give your wyvern 10% hp for a few points on thier various Breath Weapons, or put on other leg equips for better overall stats for yourself? The thing to remember is that while buffing the wyvern is nice and all, at best all you can really do is provide a marginal boost at best. You are better off just focusing on improving yourself first; the wyvern can take care of himself well enough.

If you're still worried about the wyvern, then yeah, go ahead and macro that equipment in. Dragoon AF *is* good for that; in fact, that's what I honestly think it was designed for (just like Hecatomb, only a lot less retarded). Yes, I do agree with the prick; you're hurting yourself for a marginal improvement to the wyvern, and in most situations, the wyvern isn't there to equal other pt members, just an extra source of damage. But I don't agree with the way he went about telling you; I'd have stomped him into a mudhole for even *thinking* of acting like that as a Dragoon.

Most people that rushed to 75 are indeed pricks, elitists, idiots, and just plain assholes. But those of us that took our time, we did so to fully understand the job. Any advice we give, the ones that took our time, is only meant to help guide those that come after us to make things easier for them; we help by experience, by what we've seen and gone through, not just some "I'm 75, so this is how you should play" type perspective.

Catch ya later!:thumbsup:

[Legal Fish]

I find forum rants like these rather funny. This level 70 DRG is painted as some villain, and that probably wasn't the case at all. I've seen situations like this a hundred times and I got a feeling you are bending the truth in order to get some forum sympathy. While I could be wrong, I have a strong sense the following really happened:

The level 70 DRG checks you and notices that your gear is below average(which it is, especially the rings, but not really gimp, yet worth a mention). He says this to you, telling you that you should work on replacing so-and-so with so-and-so. You reply saying either, 1) that you like your gear and it's stats are better anyway(which you've already shown here) or 2) the player is an elitist and that gear doesn't matter. All the while this guy is probably trying to explain the concept of Melee and WS macro sets or saying that it just doesn't work that way and you are gimping yourself. You are probably very aggressive, opposed to defensive, frustrating not only this high-level Dragoon, but now the entire LS. The DRG is has finally become as aggressive as you, saying that noobie dragoons are the problem, yatta yatta.

Replace Dragoon with any other job and you got half of these "OMG SO ELITIST" forum posts covered.

The Dragoon, may or may not have been "elitist", but more than likely he wasn't harassing you. If you told him you had the gear and switched to it(without mentioning your in-his-opinion uneducated opinion on the matter), probably wouldn't have been an issue to begin with. Like it or not, but he probably knows more about the job than you. This game is a learning experience, instead of becoming bitchy or aggressive when someone more experienced than you gives advice(no matter if the tone is a tad bit elitist), you just take it unless it goes against something you've proven yourself or been advised by someone who you hold in higher value. Get a grip.

PS. Word on the street, it's this whole "we are a brotherhood" thing that is giving DRGs a bad name. Anytime I've seen someone intelligently insult DRG, it's mentioned.

[Greylynx]

I find forum rants like these rather funny. This level 70 DRG is painted as some villain, and that probably wasn't the case at all. I've seen situations like this a hundred times and I got a feeling you are bending the truth in order to get some forum sympathy. While I could be wrong, I have a strong sense the following really happened:

The level 70 DRG checks you and notices that your gear is below average(which it is, especially the rings, but not really gimp, yet worth a mention). He says this to you, telling you that you should work on replacing so-and-so with so-and-so. You reply saying either, 1) that you like your gear and it's stats are better anyway(which you've already shown here) or 2) the player is an elitist and that gear doesn't matter. All the while this guy is probably trying to explain the concept of Melee and WS macro sets or saying that it just doesn't work that way and you are gimping yourself. You are probably very aggressive, opposed to defensive, frustrating not only this high-level Dragoon, but now the entire LS. The DRG is has finally become as aggressive as you, saying that noobie dragoons are the problem, yatta yatta.

Replace Dragoon with any other job and you got half of these "OMG SO ELITIST" forum posts covered.

The Dragoon, may or may not have been "elitist", but more than likely he wasn't harassing you. If you told him you had the gear and switched to it(without mentioning your in-his-opinion uneducated opinion on the matter), probably wouldn't have been an issue to begin with. Like it or not, but he probably knows more about the job than you. This game is a learning experience, instead of becoming bitchy or aggressive when someone more experienced than you gives advice(no matter if the tone is a tad bit elitist), you just take it unless it goes against something you've proven yourself or been advised by someone who you hold in higher value. Get a grip.

PS. Word on the street, it's this whole "we are a brotherhood" thing that is giving DRGs a bad name. Anytime I've seen someone intelligently insult DRG, it's mentioned.


Although you have no reason to believe me, and I suspect you won't, I can honestly say that the transcript I have provided is accurate. I went out of my way not to argue with the DRG because it was my first day in the LS and I wanted to make a good impression. Besides it wouldn't make much sense for the new guy to argue here, considering the higher level DRG probabally has a dozen freinds in the LS and I don't. I know I don't have "uber" gear or whatever and I don't claim too.

Yeah maybe this post is just like a thousand other "rants", but I felt the need to post it. This community has always been supportive of me, and I wanted to hear the DRG in this forum say "That was out of line" simply to restore my faith in the game.

Maybe this discussion is a waste of time, but I have to say your comments are the only ones that have been unpreductive. And unless you are a DRG I don't think you understand the brotherhood, and frankly outsiders wouldn't.

[DakAttack]

BRP, did you even read the post? He didn't mention what rings he was wearing.

People don't shut down their accounts over what you described. If they did there would be a lot less players in the game.

[Greylynx]

I did mention the rings later on. Said I had a +3 STR ring and a +5 ATT ring. Someone said that those were gimp, I assume they mean the +5 ATT ring. Have to admit I am not really sure why..... + STR is better for WS I know, but wouldn't the +5 ATT be better the rest of the time. I am not exactly close to my ATT cap or anything.

Then again I guess its irrelevant now huh?

In response to your statement that people don't quit over what I described.... maybe I am in the minority of people who remember that this is just a game. A game that is meant to be fun not meant to be about getting insulted by other people so they can feel better about themselves. Thats what work is for.

[Celeal]

I find forum rants like these rather funny. This level 70 DRG is painted as some villain, and that probably wasn't the case at all. I've seen situations like this a hundred times and I got a feeling you are bending the truth in order to get some forum sympathy. While I could be wrong, I have a strong sense the following really happened:

The level 70 DRG checks you and notices that your gear is below average(which it is, especially the rings, but not really gimp, yet worth a mention). He says this to you, telling you that you should work on replacing so-and-so with so-and-so. You reply saying either, 1) that you like your gear and it's stats are better anyway(which you've already shown here) or 2) the player is an elitist and that gear doesn't matter. All the while this guy is probably trying to explain the concept of Melee and WS macro sets or saying that it just doesn't work that way and you are gimping yourself. You are probably very aggressive, opposed to defensive, frustrating not only this high-level Dragoon, but now the entire LS. The DRG is has finally become as aggressive as you, saying that noobie dragoons are the problem, yatta yatta.

Replace Dragoon with any other job and you got half of these "OMG SO ELITIST" forum posts covered.

The Dragoon, may or may not have been "elitist", but more than likely he wasn't harassing you. If you told him you had the gear and switched to it(without mentioning your in-his-opinion uneducated opinion on the matter), probably wouldn't have been an issue to begin with. Like it or not, but he probably knows more about the job than you. This game is a learning experience, instead of becoming bitchy or aggressive when someone more experienced than you gives advice(no matter if the tone is a tad bit elitist), you just take it unless it goes against something you've proven yourself or been advised by someone who you hold in higher value. Get a grip.

PS. Word on the street, it's this whole "we are a brotherhood" thing that is giving DRGs a bad name. Anytime I've seen someone intelligently insult DRG, it's mentioned.

If the OP is asking for gear advice from that level 70 DRG, then it is a different story.

Examine a LS member gear, and make a negative comment explicitly on LS chat, is not a respectful action, regardless of the intention.

[Icemage]

There's thousands of other people on your server. Find some better friends - ones that have something more in their heads than rocks. I don't see anything really wrong with your gear (though your choices for when to use some pieces of AF gear seem a bit unusual).


Icemage

[eticket109]

Gloves: +10% ACC for Wyvern. Considering I have +40 ACC and I am eatting sushi its not like I need the ACC from the battle gloves, right? Maybe a good thing for this slot would be some of the NM gigas braclets though.

Legs: +10% HP for Wyvern = +10% Damage on his breath attack (or +10% healing on his Healthing breath). I don't think thats insignificant.

Feet: With AF Feet on, I find that High Jump is usually enough to turn hate back on tank (which happens alot, especially with Ninja tank, when Berserk is on, or fighting something weak to piercing,) so this means I can go all out without holding back as I can now shed hate twice in 3 minutes (w/ Super Jump too of course). This is also nice when a THF plants SATA on me, and I can jump it off without worrying about timers.
So if you think about it, its not really that bad huh?


Gloves: I think I wore them for the most part. The Spiked Finger Gauntlets are nice but a bit overpriced for that level.

Legs: 10% on breaths is nice, sure. With a breath of 100-200 that will give you another 10-20 hp. Personally, though I think the +5 to attack from Republic Sub. (or +7 from greaves, depending on Conquest) will lead to a larger DoT overall. I pretty much stuck with those two til Barone.

Feet: I used them for Jumps and High Jumps but I macro'ed them in. I think I stuck with Leaping/Bounding and Federation Gaiters (again, depending on Conquest).

AF has its uses, just because I didn't melee full time with it doesn't mean others can't. The guy comes off as an ass but people are like that sometimes.

Honestly, until the Feral set at 63, a lot of our gear is patchwork at best. They added a ton of awesome gear at endgame for Dragoons with Homam, Barone and the Assault sets... but up until then its a mixed bag.

[Lmnop]

I Can't Believe People Still Wear Rupublic Subligar In The Sixties.

[Deeman]

loldrg.


(I'm so sorry, I just had to!)

But seriously, dont go all emo just because some dude called you a gimp. Like Raydeus said, most high lvl drgs are bitter and emo and this thread doesnt help banish that stereotype. You pay to PLAY this GAME however you want (given the restrictions of ToS).

[eticket109]

I Can't Believe People Still Wear Rupublic Subligar In The Sixties.

:o

sadly, for an overall attack bonus there really isn't much else until Feral @63

[dirtyclown]

The Dragoon, may or may not have been "elitist", but more than likely he wasn't harassing you. If you told him you had the gear and switched to it(without mentioning your in-his-opinion uneducated opinion on the matter), probably wouldn't have been an issue to begin with. Like it or not, but he probably knows more about the job than you. This game is a learning experience, instead of becoming bitchy or aggressive when someone more experienced than you gives advice(no matter if the tone is a tad bit elitist), you just take it unless it goes against something you've proven yourself or been advised by someone who you hold in higher value. Get a grip.

Good day fellow troll, I'd like you to take a look at the bolded section there. That bit of "wisdom" has set up countless players on the road to failure. I know you get massive lols out of steering people the wrong way intentionally, just as I do from time to time, but seriously. You're not helping the community by telling people to STFU and listen to whatever someone higher level than they are has to say. You're reinforcing the sheep mentality. Stop it.

OP, I'm sorry this happened. You can bet if I was there I'd tear him a new ass and probably get blacklisted by a few people, but sometimes it's worth it to tell someone to shut the hell up when they're out of line. Go play a better game, and be sure to have a wonderful time.

[Anaki]

im at 75 and i still use my drachen greaves :x i really dont see much other things with a significant bonus to them D: and i didn't use drachen gloves much when i had them because i had some enkies i borrowed from my fried (dex-4 = acc-2) so not wearing battle gloves is not bad since thats a acc difference of 5 between battle gloves and enkies

[Legal Fish]

Dirtyclown, you use the term sheep too loosely. More importantly, you also seem to ignore the fact that I didn't say to follow person who gave the advice blindly. It no longer matters, because has clarified what I suggested isn't what happened. If what I said was relevant depends entirely on whether the reader believes him or not. There is no reason to discuss this any further.

[dirtyclown]

Do I? Are you sure? You of all people should know that misinformation runs rampant all over the place in this game, because people like you spread it and the sheep mentality. I fail to see the point in telling someone to shut up and listen to whoever it is giving advice just because they're high level, which is an issue that does need to be discussed, because it needs to end. Perhaps at another time, but it does need to be addressed.

[DakAttack]

I did mention the rings later on. Said I had a +3 STR ring and a +5 ATT ring. Someone said that those were gimp, I assume they mean the +5 ATT ring. Have to admit I am not really sure why..... + STR is better for WS I know, but wouldn't the +5 ATT be better the rest of the time. I am not exactly close to my ATT cap or anything.

Then again I guess its irrelevant now huh?


I've reread it a few times. I still don't see it...


In response to your statement that people don't quit over what I described.... maybe I am in the minority of people who remember that this is just a game. A game that is meant to be fun not meant to be about getting insulted by other people so they can feel better about themselves. Thats what work is for.

I was referring to what BRP was describing. As far as I know people flame other people while handing out equipment advice all the time, but people rarely quit over it. If you're actually quitting over it, it must have been something much more appalling.

[Greylynx]

Thanks for all the responses guys. I appreciate your feedback. I have learned two things:

1) The majority of people agree that the DRG was out of line. I am so happy to hear this as it restores my faith in the players.

2) I overreacted and took the situation WAY to seriously. Maybe canceling my account was alittle drastic. I keep saying its only a game so we should all play nice, but by the same token its only a game so who cares what others think.

I am going to take a few weeks off and touch base with reality again. I think I will come back to FF in a month or so with a fresh perspective. I have been spending too much time on the game anyway. I think I was the guy who SE was talking about with the warning when you log in!

In the meantime, good luck with your adventures everyone!

[Icemage]

In the meantime, good luck with your adventures everyone!
Now that's something I think everyone can appreciate. :) Good luck, and hope to see you back when you've had a chance to cool off.


Icemage

[Karinya]

Gloves: I think I wore them for the most part. The Spiked Finger Gauntlets are nice but a bit overpriced for that level.
Well, I was fortunate enough to get them from the BCNM after 3 or 4 attempts. They *are* a bit pricey, but very nice IMO.

Legs: 10% on breaths is nice, sure. With a breath of 100-200 that will give you another 10-20 hp. Personally, though I think the +5 to attack from Republic Sub. (or +7 from greaves, depending on Conquest) will lead to a larger DoT overall. I pretty much stuck with those two til Barone.
Well, I wasn't comfortable with giving up so much def and hp *and* wyvern hp for +5 atk (and that's for the HQ!), considering how often monsters turn on me even with PLD tanks (not to mention aoe), but I'll concede that it's a matter of taste. Offensive stats are more important than defensive ones point-for-point, but you can't afford to ignore defense completely unless you like getting oneshotted when a monster turns and WSes.

Feet: I used them for Jumps and High Jumps but I macro'ed them in. I think I stuck with Leaping/Bounding and Federation Gaiters (again, depending on Conquest).
I have to laugh at this coming from someone who said spiked finger gauntlets are overpriced. They cost about the same as leaping boots and are much more beneficial. (If you're lucky enough to have bounding boots, they're fine, but personally despite dozens of hours camping I have never even *seen* Lizzy, let alone claimed her or gotten the drop, so I certainly wouldn't *expect* someone to have them.)

In fact, if the OP sold the SH he could probably afford SFGs, jaridah peti and a woodsman ring, giving him the same acc and about 15 more atk. He'd lose 15 evasion but I don't rely on evading anything in a party anyway.
AF has its uses, just because I didn't melee full time with it doesn't mean others can't. The guy comes off as an ass but people are like that sometimes.
Honestly, until the Feral set at 63, a lot of our gear is patchwork at best. They added a ton of awesome gear at endgame for Dragoons with Homam, Barone and the Assault sets... but up until then its a mixed bag.

And in particular there's nothing really good in the legs or feet until very high levels, which is why I wear AF in those slots at 56. Tiger/feral is OK, and I will probably get it since it's cheap, but it's too high level for the OP anyway.

I would worry about anyone who meleed full time in AF *body* - because there *are* very nice body items available at that level, some of them quite affordable, which could noticeably increase your damage output. Head is arguable - you will certainly want the AF for WS, while it may be worthwhile to keep a valk/walk for normal swings, if you have limited gil it may be better spent elsewhere. (Of course the unspoken assumption of some people is that you *don't* have limited gil. Why they assume that is left as an exercise for the reader.) The rest of the slots there either isn't anything particularly good until higher levels, or there's only one piece and it's expensive (SFGs).


"STR is better than ATK for WS" - well, no. Only wheeling thrust. For most WS, attack is king. (For penta you may get better results from acc, at least up to a point.) As a /WAR I'd be surprised if you haven't already noticed how much more damage your WS do while berserk - that proves the effectiveness of attack for WS. (Except on too weaks, where you really can cap it.) Wheeling thrust is an exception in some situations because of its special property to ignore defense - it's essentially a quite powerful def down that only applies to that one attack. That makes it possible to cap your atk without really trying and *then* STR becomes better.


Aside from the SFGs, the main thing I would suggest the OP improve in his gear is *exactly the pieces he was trying to get by Assault* when some asshat criticized him for not already having the gear he was trying to earn. Way to not think things through, moron.

It wouldn't hurt to get acc rings for tp - and conversely, a swordbelt for WS - and start swapping between them, but there's nothing wrong with assailant ring in the right situation - I use it myself. Acc rings can be pretty pricy (that's one reason I like jaeger, but not everyone knows enough 40+ SMNs to go get it).

[eticket109]

As far as Leaping/Bounding, I camped those. I wouldn't pay for them either, but nowadays its a lot easier to camp them, especially now that the placeholders are easy to research. Typically, its easier to obtain those then the Gauntlets, but who knows... Lizzy is a bitch.

Like you said though, the body piece is the only one I would really have an issue with someone meleeing in and he wasn't doing that anyway. In parties, I preferred to use the Valk. Mask til I hit 70 but that's just me.

I think the only spendy item I would recommend at his stage would be an Assault Earring. That will serve a DRG well until they get into some of the endgame earrings like Brutal, Ethereal or Triumph.

As for rings, keep in mind the Venerer if you need Acc... the quest is a bit long but free is free.

For the OP: know this... once you hit 70, the armor path for us gets a lot better.

[Vyuru]

Honestly, I think that dragoon was way out of line. The rest of the Assualt LS was out of line making you sit on the back lines as well IMO because depending on your sub, and especially for a lvl 60 lvl cap (assuming that's what you guys used here) Your gear is more than adequate and your team were idiots for making you sit on the back lines for it.

I think he might have been giving you some decent advice for other gear, but honestly I don't feel that the other pieces would boost your performance by that much, Rebulic/Bastokan subligar instead of AF legs? So that's what, +3/5 attack, yeah, that's REALLY gonna make a difference while Berserk is up. So given that and your other gear, I would not be calling you gimp by any means, it's just different gear than I would use, and in addition to that it is all still good gear.

I like the AF legs and feet, and I just don't see any gear that really *might* be better for them until you get lvl 70+, everything before then is really a tossup based on player preference. Do you want +3/5attack or +10% wyvern breath damage? I'd rather take the +wyvern breath damage based on the amount of skillchaining I do.

Decide whatever is best for you, and good luck in all of your endeavors.

[LadyKiKi]

That person makes the game so unfun.

Likewise, in my linkshell there's 1 other DRG. Level 60. She wears full AF as of now. Being a mother of 2 and staticing with her boyfriend (RDM) and another friend (PLD), she made it to 60 somehow. I know for a fact she hasn't got as much time to farm much, so her equip is a bit under par, but those 3 along the way, I really admire the fun they have in their parties it seems.

She's never said to me about people complaining about her gear (as it seems according to elitists, by 60 DRGs should be sporting a chiv chain, scorpion harness, spiked finer gauntlets, dual wood/sniper rings, etc).

I just, really admire the stuff and fun they seem to have together. Like at one time I couldn't make it down to Garlaige/Beadueux to help their PLD with a coffer key but yet those 3 did it fine all the same. Getting good gear when it's possible, and doing stuff slowly at their own pace.

It's kinda hard to explain what I'm trying to get at here, but their or that sense of fun I don't think anything could replace. The people, like the DRG that was mentioned in the opening post, are the ones who make it less fun for people. I personally haven't encountered anyone like this, but then again I haven't partied for a year and hardly go do group stuffs. In my linkshell of about 15 people the "levels" of standard stretches very very far. I don't recall any one of us saying anything about each other's gear, except one time I had an Oscar Scarf on and someone asked "what the hell is that?".

Linkshell leader and "co" leader, they're in the "elite" stages I'd say (they do dynamis/sky a lot). Then there's the people who don't do any endgame stuff (me and a few others) with gear that goes by (no AF2/God Gear/Sea Gear, etc) and the rest who aren't level 65+ yet but are slowly getting there (they all work/have family). You can say our shell is full of "old" people nearly, in a way. We just logon and get on with it and worry about ourselves, rather than others.

If you play the game up to the point where you emotionally care about what other people wear and just moan and not consider their circumstances, just think again, maybe.

[Malacite]

Dude, that blows. I wouldn't quit FF XI over that, but I definately would have called a GM. That's blatant harassment.

[SomeMithra]

All this talk about gear has finally got me to say something.

I am a Mithra DRG, level 74 now. But this isnt about what level I am now, its about a time when I was exping in Bibiki Bay(yeah I know NO one exp's out there anymore but we did because the WHM didn't have ToAU or something). Anyway I was about 65-67 at that point and I was exping with another DRG. Get to camp and I notice hes in full AF so I /check him. His gear is full AF, chiv chain, STR rings, life belt, amemet mantle, 2 +5 ATT earrings, and a GKL. Customarily I /salute him and we begin exping. His full AF gear doesn't change all fight. Really his gear is acceptable outside of AF in my opinion.

In the end I had much more exspensve gear all around, I mean SH, walk mask, assault earring, minuet earring, snipers, ect. Heres the thing, end result damage, I wasn't really out DDIng him much. He was a hume dragoon either same level or one above me. Now I know a single level can make a big differance, but out WS's were hitting about the same, and our normal hits were too. This occurance really had a huge effect on my perspective in the game. It honestly seems like gear does not make a huge influence on how much damage is delt once it reaches a certain point. Or maybe character race really does play a big role on DD classes.

As for attacks on people due to gear. I find it silly, even before this development. I mean I know plenty of Dragoons who don't have the best gear out there and use subpar gear in a few slots and I never once harrased them for it. Sometimes I offer some advise on things to farm and the such so that they can eventually afford better gear, but beyyound that i don't comment much more. In fact I think most people with poor gear know so since they are constantly quick to defend themselves and say they are unable to afford certain gear and will one day, so what's the point in even bothing to bring it up?

Anyway I may have rambled some of that off, I was sort of watching a poker game while typing so, yeah wasnt 100% focued, think i got my point across though...

[Vyuru]

Well, I do think gear makes a difference to a point, but if you have really good accessories, and pretty good gear, there won't be too much of a difference between you and someone who just has really good gear all around.

There is just a point where stacking on more +stat gear won't be as effective as it once was, this point constantly shifts depending on your level and what you are fighting and the mob's level. Most people expect a player to come with the best of the best gear when they party even though all that +1 gear might not really matter.

[Greylynx]

Ladykiki, I really like your point. I would also consider myself one of those casual players. I don't need or even want the best gear available. I just wanna be a good DRG and have fun. Seems like all the hardcore players these days don't even tolerate the people who just wanna have fun. Its a shame too, cause they will just end up driving us out of the game, then they'll complain that the servers are empty.

SomeMithra, your story is great. Really points out the fact that the "elite" players will harass you over wearing your AF because they read on alla or wherever that you shouldn't. Its not necessarily a case of XPing in AF is bad, its just that its popular to make fun of people who XP in AF. I'm not saying there isn't better gear for XPing, there is. But AF might not be as bad as everyone thinks it is.

Just an update on my story for those that care. I have been away from the game for 2 weeks. Its tough because I miss my friends and all, but the break is doing wonders for me. Still haven't decided if I am going to come back or not. I'm not sure when or if I'll know that I am ready to have fun and forget about what others think.

Anyway, thanks again for all the comments everyone!

[Emurei]

That dude wasn't elitist... anal retentive yes :p

I consider myself elitist as a SAM, I don't have the best of gear, above average yes. Ok maybe I'm not elitist <.< If I ever party with another SAM I don't even bother checking them till they do something wrong. Biggest thing they do wrong is not knowing the WS chart! Like come on guys thats like SAM Basics 101! Ok its a Pev of mine <.<

I think the basics is far more important to be elitist about than the gear you wear. With out the basics how can one build a foundation to succeed later on? (unless they bought gil)

Though someone did pull a "Why don't you have the O-Hat?" crap on me once. I wear the SAM Relic Helm which has the same Acc, 5 less R.Acc, no Evasion, More HP and Def than O-Hat, but it looks very simular to the AF Helm. Jokingly I replied "Nah I'm not into the bad kid that had to sit in the corner durning class look" mind you he said this in party chat, so EVERYONE examined me and I did a /blush. One of the mages pointed "Hes wearing the AFII Helm" He was like "o" so being the prick that I am (he started it!) I checked him, and behold a NQ Hauby "So.... Don't you have a Hauby+1? ;)" the party had a laugh, though I don't think he thought it was funny :p

[DakAttack]

I leveled Dragoon back when they had mostly crappy gear. I had a SH at one point, but it disappeared from my bazaar one day. I got really lucky and managed to obtain an O-hat, and it became the highlight of my wardrobe. I got a lot of repeat invites despite my gear, which was nice. I think from level 60-72 I was partying with a repeat inviter. There was at least four or five of them.

[AchillisGT]

Ok, I'm going to make this simple and direct to start;
This is only a game!

This is basically the first blog thread I've ever written because I usually don't bother, but after reading this, a few things started pissing me off.

I had a party were I was the leader and had a blm loudmouth. He was dissing my whm for a death the first fight... to make a long story short, I booted him, grabbed a smn, then ended up lvling 4 levels that night. He claimed it was messed up that I booted him, and he harrassed me and the whm for 10 min after, but I repeated: Dude, this is just a game. He claimed he waited 8 hours for a party, yet he didn't know i waited 4 weeks before deciding to start my own. I had an even worse incident as I was leveling whm, but this is for Drg, my favorite job.

Dude, don't let the punk win. Get back on and do it right and do it your way. I'm only a 37Drg/18War or Whm, so I don't have your expirience with that high of level, but screw him. On Odin, my whole ls, Dragooncirca, is all dragoons, either as a main , a hopeful, or friends with one. Not a single person is a jerk and not a one punks anyone else out, except when jerks, like in your situation, try to punk one of us. Every real dragoon knows that the job is based on individual strategies (such as my stupidity in grabbing alittle tanking for fun when the tank needs a sec) so no REAL dragoon can knock anyother. Don't let that dude or even ls win... you have the knowledge, get back on and tear some a$$. Next time, ignore him or drop out of the ls... its more fun to be in control and start your own.

For all you dragoons or hopefuls on Odin who want a real ls, with dragoons and dragoons with other jobs at all different level (including high 60's, and a couple 70's that pop on from time to time), I am on Odin and carry a sack for Dragooncirca. We currently have the 2-3 dragon record at 3:32ish and many have done this and the drg quest dragon several times. Give me (Marz, glowatoke or even Vatslav and ktulufire) a /tell, and you'll have all the help and friends you'll need. Name is Achillis

[Yeargdribble]

I will agree the DRG was probably out of line. I don't check people, and even if I do for some reason, I don't feel the need to tell them how crappy their gear is even if I think it is.

However, when you bring it to a forum like this, you've opened yourself up for dissection. There are superior gear choices and you even had some of them. What I am bothered most by is this.

Why does it suck? Because everyone on allah says it does?

You seem to be attacking the general internet community it seems. It doesn't suck because Alla says it sucks... It sucks because... it sucks. The biggest reason is that there are pieces that are FAR superior on almost every slot. If you have most of them, why not wear them?

Me: Yeah I have that stuff except the mask, but I use it when te situation warrents it.

When does the situation warrant it? Only if someone calls you out in XP for wearing AF instead of the better choices? There is a place for town gear. If you only wear your AF for running around, that's cool. However, if you XP in it when you have better choices, that's problematic, especially considering you actually own the better gear.

Sure this game is just a game and we all pay to play how we want, but keep in mind that you are playing with other real people who also have real lives. There's no reason to not be the best you can reasonably be.

While is sounds like you have fairly reasonable gear, and if you XP in decent gear, I have no quarrel, I can understand his point of view to an extent. There are a lot of DRGs (and DRKs) out there that are just absolutely horrible. They have crap for gear and don't seem to care with the excuse of "my game, my way" or whatever. In all honesty, the plethora of bad players that flock to these two jobs is what gives them a bad name.

I've been parsing my damage while leveling DRG (I'm fairly low level) and between me and Flink, I end up parsing somewhere between 45-55% of the entire PTs damage every time I XP. I'm sure DRGs can't parse so well at higher levels, but it's the ones that suck that give DRG a bad rep.

Certain jobs can have crap for gear and still do great damage. DRG doesn't seem to be one of these jobs. DRGs have to work harder to keep their names out of the mud. I wince every time I see the horrible types of DRGs that create a stimga that costs me invites.


If you're doing the best you can, then go you and forget that guy. Have fun ^^

[Greylynx]

You seem to be attacking the general internet community it seems. It doesn't suck because Alla says it sucks... It sucks because... it sucks. The biggest reason is that there are pieces that are FAR superior on almost every slot. If you have most of them, why not wear them?



I really have to argue the point that there is equipment that is FAR superior in every slot. Lets look at it one at a time:

Body: AF --> SH, Peti
Hands AF --> SFG

Your absolutely right, these slots have much better choices. You'll notice I do have a SH. The SFG are alittle too pricey for me right now... The other solid choice, Battle Gloves, I do use when my accuracy is bad but thats seldom is the case these days. I have admited in retrospect that maybe some of the other gigas bracelets are worth looking into, but STR isn't really a problem, I would want ATT and I don't know of any other ATT gloves at this stage.

Head: AF --> Walk Mask

Walkure Mask is better yes, and I want to get one. FAR superior though? Not sure.

Legs: AF ---> Bastokian Subligar
Feet: AF ---> ???

There is no FAR superior choice here until Feral Set at 63, and I am only 61 so its a moot point really. Bastokian Subligar with +3 Strength isn't really going to make a difference in a party. And the feet? I dunno maybe leaping/bounding boots? Again, its not FAR superior.

I really believe that some of the AF (not all) is acceptable until 63. When I hit 63 I was going to buy the Feral Hands, Legs, and Feet. I'll was also looking into the Walk Mask. So you can see by the time I hit 63 I wasn't going to be in any AF (except MAYBE the helm) anyway.

[Karinya]

It doesn't suck because Alla says it sucks... It sucks because... it sucks. The biggest reason is that there are pieces that are FAR superior on almost every slot. If you have most of them, why not wear them?
No, there aren't (at least, not at the level he was at). There's a very nice, affordable body piece that you should definitely have (Jaridah Peti); some semi-affordable head pieces that are nice to have (Valk/Walk masks); a very expensive but quite nice hand piece (spiked finger gauntlets); and there's jack in the legs and feet slots before Tiger, and even that isn't very impressive (to get really good leg and feet items you have to wait for 70+). If you're lucky enough to have bounding boots you might consider swapping between them and AF, but if you *buy* leaping or winged boots to do so you're wasting money IMO.

Wearing full AF full time is silly and needlessly hurts your performance; wearing some AF full time and swapping in some for specific situations/actions is quite reasonable (in fact, I would argue you're generally hurting yourself if you *don't* at least wear AF helm for WS and AF feet for jumps).
I've been parsing my damage while leveling DRG (I'm fairly low level) and between me and Flink, I end up parsing somewhere between 45-55% of the entire PTs damage every time I XP. I'm sure DRGs can't parse so well at higher levels, but it's the ones that suck that give DRG a bad rep.

Actually, you might be surprised. A BLM friend of mine was in a colibri party with me the other day and measured me and my wyvern at (total) upwards of 40% of the total damage - he was second at around 25-30%, I think. That's piercing weak mobs, though - if you were doing 50% of the whole party's damage on *non* piercing weak mobs, then you just need better parties. :D

BTW: I've never seen one of the DRGs that suck. What server are they on? I also don't think DRG really gets any worse invite rates than any other DD, unless the party is being formed to fight bones - it just seems horrible if you're used to being some job other than DD (and it's hard to find/form parties from 40-70 in general, recently).

[Yeargdribble]

Body: There's really no debate that either Peti or SH is superior. If you have enough acc build you could even argue that Peti > SH, though both are far better than AF for XP PTs.

Hands: SFG are great, especially if you have decent acc. Battle Gloves or Jaridah Bazubands both outperform the DRG. In XP, your DoT will be far more important than your Wyvern's DoT and you have no need for parry. Acc+3 > DEX +3 by far.

Head: Walk/Valk Mask better for your DoT vs the Wyverns just like with the hands. Slighly less far and away better than the above.

Legs: Republic Subligar (or cuisses depending on conquest) are waaay better than the AF legs. AF legs add absolutely nothing for a PT DRG. Something > nothing always. (btw the subligar is Atk, not STR) I'd say these are even less up for debate than the head.

Feet: Fed Gaiters or Rep Greaves (both conquest sadly) toast the AF feet except perhaps for a jump macro. However, these may not be worth the money or effort to carry around for some people (understandably so). These are probably the most debatable.



The sad part is, if you were almost any other jobs, nobody would care. DRG just naturally has a bad rept, so you have to be more careful I suppose. Sad but true. I'm being especially conscientious about DRG for that very reason. I'd just say that if you have the better pieces there's no reason not to wear them (aside from vanity). I highly doubt that your acc is so high that you aren't getting any benefit from the Battle Gloves. When you only give up a few stats over several slots, it can add up.

Generally though, I think the other guy is definitely in the wrong for make a spectacle of pointing you out.

[Macht]

Yeah, thing I've noticed in this game is you do have elitist with a one tracked mind. They find a equipment set that's has many praises and then conforms himself to it, taking it even further he himself will attempt to conform others to it also.

In the end this single setup starts become a definition and if you don't follow you're a n00b. Ever get into a logic discussion with these people? There last and final reasoning for trying to conform you is because "Everyone else does it so it must be the best, especially for how long the games been out". It's a pretty crappy excuse to me, especially since many Walkthroughs I've seen for games 5+ years old can be crappy. Hell the Walkthroughs I've seen for games like DragonQuest VIII are pretty pathetic. Yeah many are doing it because it's had positive effect and has been positively praised, does it mean it's the best option or method? HELL NO!!!!!!

Will you be able to convince those that disagree though? Likely will not.

So best thing is to just let them believe what they want and you do what you want. If they push it and start ruining your fun then a neutral 3rd person abitration is needed, aka. GMs.


Pretty the same as people complaining about RNG/WAR being less effective. Complaining about their defense and getting owned, but they totally dismiss gear that RNG can use for better defense when it's needed. I call it my Uragnite Plan.

[Sevv]

Personally i rocked alot of Af thru lvl 60 after lvl 60 i started getting better gear got my sh at like 61 maybe, i lvled drg cuz i liked it and was always trying out new things. Play the way you want to not what others say. Hell i soloed from 71->72 because i wanted to see how well i could. I kept my gear at par if nto a little better because i had the gil. When i hit 75 thats when i started really putting gil into my drg. i have almost 2 sets of gear for my drg now one for dot/tp gain and one for ws. Play to have fun not to spend all ur time trying to meet someone who has to make others look bad to try and feel better.

[Yeargdribble]

I don't know that you can argue the same conformism in FFXI as you do in an offline game Macht. People don't suggest certain gears just because "everyone is doing it." They suggest them because they are, in fact, superior. I suppose end the end you have to juggle a few things. Price/Fashion/Performance. It's up to the player to decide how much of one they are willing to give for the others.

I can understand people not wanting to buy certain gears because the price/performance ratio isn't that good (PCC comes to mind). I could also see someone arguing any type of subligar in the Fashion/Performance proportionality.

I suppose my mindset comes specifically from needing to go the extra mile as a taru doing things like melee and tanking (BRD/NIN ftw). I will almost always choose performance > fashion and will also spend that extra day or two farming for a piece of gear that will perform extremely well.

[Jei]

I'm glad there's no subligar that's good for Rdm... I knew I didn't want to wear one when I was playing Mnk.

[Macht]

I don't know that you can argue the same conformism in FFXI as you do in an offline game Macht. People don't suggest certain gears just because "everyone is doing it." They suggest them because they are, in fact, superior. I suppose end the end you have to juggle a few things. Price/Fashion/Performance. It's up to the player to decide how much of one they are willing to give for the others.
I can understand people not wanting to buy certain gears because the price/performance ratio isn't that good (PCC comes to mind). I could also see someone arguing any type of subligar in the Fashion/Performance proportionality.
I suppose my mindset comes specifically from needing to go the extra mile as a taru doing things like melee and tanking (BRD/NIN ftw). I will almost always choose performance > fashion and will also spend that extra day or two farming for a piece of gear that will perform extremely well.

Actually offline to online games I've been able to make relations quite well on them. I've been in quite a few logical discussions with people in FFXI and many times when I present an idea or new strategy, there are the people that shoot it down saying that'll never work. In the end they've often agreed of it's potential but still refuse it on the basis that out of all this time the games been up why hasn't anyone else thought of it?

It's the same BS I got on Anarchy Online when I went with weapons with Very Low delay even though the weapons with higher delay had nearly a 3-4 time higher damage ranking. Most sites that would "calculate" the damage results always made my choice look like it was a bad one, but the actual play showed it to be far stronger. It was a pretty funny PvP match I had once too, the could of killed me in 2 hits if he survived long enough for the weapons delay. Unfortunatly the speed of my attacks won over brute force.

Lol, hell I even surprised a friend of mine who'd been playing AO for a long time. He said he was always told that Low Delay weapons were crap, so he played the game building to what was a 'definition' without ever knowing. Same thing goes with DQVIII as I had found with the Dragovian Trials, so many walkthroughs and every one of them never mentioned anything to what I had done to win them. The walkthroughs by players even were modified ones of the published walkthroughs and would attack eachother of which method they felt was best.

Still none of them mentioned that there is a way to negate a large amount of damage. I knew there was a reason I liked Jessica and not because of her Bunny Suit, Swimsuit, Dangerous Bustier, or Divine Bustier. :worry:

[Celeal]

IMHO, if my exp. party can gain fast/good exp over time, I don'y really care what gear is the player is using.

If the party is slacking, or there is room of improvement, then I would try to see what is wrong. Very often, as long as the DD's gear is has "enough" acc/atk/str, then it is non-issue.

Actually, there is an issue when the DD's gear is "too good," and that DD ends up "tanking," which is the real problem.

As for DRG's AF, if I am leveling DRG, I would consider:
Feet --- Crow Gaiters (DEF:8 Evasion+4 Enmity-4) and swap AF feet for Jumps.

Hands --- I think AF hands has its use. I mean you can wear STR+ or ATK+ or ACC+ hands and boost the damage output of you lance, but it also increase your hate too. On the other hand, AF hand can increase the acc. of the Wyvern, and the spread to the Wyvern.

Increase of lance damage vs. Increase Wyvern's acc. Unless there is parsed data, I won't say AF hand sux.

Since Wyvern's TP is related with the effect of Healing Breath, it is great for drg/whm (or other defensive Wyvern subjob).

"Every 20% Increase in [Wyvern's] TP will Increase your Healing Potential. In total [Wyvern's] Breaths can have 15 Increments."

Body --- AF body can be swapped in between pulls or downtime. Wyvern Regen keeps your pet alive longer. A dead Wyvern deals zero damage ^^;

For DD, SH or Peti.

Pants --- Besides Republic subligar, I think Crow Hose (DEF:20 Evasion+5 Enmity-5) is nice too.

Head --- Swap in AF head before using WS.

[Vyuru]

Gear wise:

You know, I'd just wear the AF feet until you can get something really good at lvl 70+, most other footwear offers so little benefit to the overall gear build that I have never noticed a difference, same for the Bastokan Subligar/Tiger Trousers, as a drg/war I see little effect to wearing them, so I really wouldn't heckle another player over it.

Now that IS assuming that the rest of their gear is good and all. I think it's the case for all AF that it is situational.

AF hands aren't bad per se, but toss in a naturally highly accurate wyvern and when you consider the other gloves out there, Jaridah, Enkylados Bracelet, Spiked gloves, and I don't think they are the best thing to use.

And you know, until Celeal mentioned it I never even considered the Crow armor line. I tend to draw alot of hate now in parties but that is a mix of slightly weak mobs and bad/no tanks, it would be interesting to see how effective the -enmity on it would be.

Regretably though once I hit 70+ there are just too many good pieces of DD equipment out there for me to use, and to be honest I damn well expect the tanks to hold their own and enough of this sissy tank pile of chocobo droppings, I wanna splurge on gear and really go wild in parties without having to hold back, much.


They find a equipment set that's has many praises and then conforms himself to it, taking it even further he himself will attempt to conform others to it also.


Not just that, but it seems the more right you are, the angrier the other person gets >.>

I honestly don't care if the player doesn't have the best gear, I just expect them to try their best, within reason, in the party.

There last and final reasoning for trying to conform you is because "Everyone else does it so it must be the best, especially for how long the games been out".

Gotta love that one >.>

BTW: I've never seen one of the DRGs that suck. What server are they on? I also don't think DRG really gets any worse invite rates than any other DD, unless the party is being formed to fight bones

Drg that sucks? Hmmm, I remember this one drg, all AF, lvl 14 NQ dex rings, no waist, neck, back, and hp+ earrings. Spammed Penta Thrust with an annoying /say macro. She leveled it about the same times and places I was leveling at the time, so it was kind of interesting to compare our damage output since I was testing a full dex gear setup at the time.

Drg invite rates kind of vary, high levels I normally make my own, so since I'm the party leader I don't get invites, and when I'm not a party leader I'm /mage or some other sub, which people assume I party with and rarely send me a /tell.

Low levels though I tend to join parties more often than not, and sometimes I see a "drg sucks" comment and sometimes I don't, it seems that more often than not they will invite a drg if not many other jobs are seeking, assuming that it's not a group of friends that static together, or that it's not a bunch of people who just repeat invites.

And now I've gotta run without cleaning this page of random thoughts up, so I will leave you all with this page full of (Impossible to Guage) (Mithra) (Mind)! comments :P

[Yeargdribble]

If you think there's no point in getting the Republic Subligar at 25 because it's only Atk+5 then why even bother getting Feral Trousers at 63 with the exact same stats (give or take a few DEF)?

If you say this about every piece of gear, you quickly end up in a situation of having crappy gear over all. Why wear Battle Gloves? They are only Acc+3. Same with Venerer's... why bother? Same with the Peti... it's only 5 atk and only 5 acc.

If anything, the Rep Sub is better at a lower leve because it represents a much greater portion of your over all atk and consequently damage.

If you use the mentality of it only being so much on several slots, you'll slowly nickel and dime yourself into gimpness at worse or mediocrity at best.

[Karinya]

Body: There's really no debate that either Peti or SH is superior. If you have enough acc build you could even argue that Peti > SH, though both are far better than AF for XP PTs.
And if you can afford an SH, then you should be comparing to *Akinji* Peti, anyway; although more expensive than Jaridah (duh), it's still much cheaper than SH.

This part I agree with: you shouldn't exp in AF body. There's a cheap, powerful piece (Jaridah Peti) that everyone should be able to get and use, and it will have a significant effect.

That doesn't necessarily mean the *rest* of the AF set is bad for parties, though.
Hands: SFG are great, especially if you have decent acc. Battle Gloves or Jaridah Bazubands both outperform the DRG. In XP, your DoT will be far more important than your Wyvern's DoT and you have no need for parry. Acc+3 > DEX +3 by far.
You have a very strange definition of "by far" if you think that +1-2 personal acc is better "by far" than an unspecified amount of wyvern acc. Hell, +2 personal acc isn't better "by far" than nothing at all.

Of course, battle gloves are cheap, so you might as well, but SFG are going to outperform both - by far. For real.
Head: Walk/Valk Mask better for your DoT vs the Wyverns just like with the hands. Slighly less far and away better than the above.
Wrong, they'll be a much *bigger* difference than battle gloves vs. AF, especially since the DEX on AF is already providing 1-2 acc. Underestimating the importance of attack is the #1 mistake DDs make.

Still want to swap them out for AF head for WS though.
Legs: Republic Subligar (or cuisses depending on conquest) are waaay better than the AF legs.
Slightly better - if you're not getting hit, which depends a lot on your tank.
AF legs add absolutely nothing for a PT DRG. Something > nothing always. (btw the subligar is Atk, not STR) I'd say these are even less up for debate than the head.
Wrong again: wyvern HP affects wyvern breath damage (and swapping them in won't help, because you'll just have a wyvern at 500/550 hp or whatever). The overall effect is probably slightly less than Republic - if you never get hit, including by AoE. Otherwise you're going to miss that huge def difference. Wearing armor that's 30 levels old has its downsides, especially in one of the major defense slots. I might also have to keep crow in mind the next time I party with a nin...

Being a damage dealer isn't just about dealing damage; avoiding being an unnecessary drain on the healers is important too. The bottom line is the party's total exp/hr and you don't improve that by being too reckless. Certainly 1 def is less valuable than 1 atk, but is 2 def less valuable than 1 atk? 3 def? There has to be a point somewhere where you say it's not worth giving up that much defense for that little offense, and I think reasonable people can differ on whether or not Rep. Subligar crosses that line.

Oh, and if you're dealing with someone who's not filthy rich, maybe we should be using *Bastokan* subligar as the comparison: that's only 3 atk, which makes it an even worse tradeoff. It's helpful to be rich to equip a DD - that's one of the reasons I didn't do one as my first or second job - but I wouldn't go so far as to demand that nobody level a DD unless they can afford to drop 80k on +5 atk. Some people are struggling to afford new weapons.
Feet: Fed Gaiters or Rep Greaves (both conquest sadly) toast the AF feet except perhaps for a jump macro. However, these may not be worth the money or effort to carry around for some people (understandably so). These are probably the most debatable.
Well, at least you're not demanding winged boots or some crap like that. Yeah, when they're active, those items are nice, but who levels outside Aht Urhgan anymore?


The only ones that give a bonus big enough to notice without extensive parsing are the Jaridah Peti (or SH, if you can afford it), spiked finger gauntlets and maybe valk/walk mask. And it isn't reasonable to demand the SFGs because of cost. So I stand by my earlier statement that while wearing *full* AF is foolish, wearing *some* AF can be quite reasonable.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Topic about gear elitism invaded by the inane number-crunching types that make DRG hard to enjoy to begin with. Shocker.

To the OP - there's just this odd strain of players that dedicate themselves to having the best-of-the-best gear and expect you to strive for the same and prance around in the same exact gear they do. It doesn't matter to them that you may have some of this gear and do your job well by macroing it in during EXP. It doesn't matter to them that you may, in fact, have a life - they expect you to actually wear what they wear all the damn time for everyone to see.

In essence, they're a virtual Joan Rivers, demeaning anyone walking down their little red carpet.

They want to believe they had it hard, that they stuggled to the top in what they believed to be the hardest job in the game to level. As such, they find any player who's not like them to be offensive or "making us look bad."

Some of these people just don't realize, understand or appreciate that this MMORPG is part of a vast series - not unlike World or Warcraft - and that there's some symoblism to each job's armor that is derived from the main series classics. Its an element there for the fans.

There are people who enjoyed Kain, Shadow, Cecil or other representations of jobs from the main series that like wearing the armor they wore. They're fans. And the OP obviously is either a fan or really just likes how it looks.

Nothing wrong with that. I have an Optical Hat I refuse to wear on Corsair, should I go fugly just because I'll get two more ranged accuracy over AF hat? Seems like clutter to me, I'll just save it for RNG and other jobs.

Don't let these types of people get to you. You play FFXI and let them play whatever game they think they're playing. If you're in a job and you really love it, you'll do what's best for that job within your means and take the time to do so. However, it doesn't mean you have to fufill people's expectations on appearance off the battlefield. To hell with those people and just have fun.

[Yeargdribble]

However, it doesn't mean you have to fufill people's expectations on appearance off the battlefield.

I agree you don't have to fulfill anyone's expectations when you're running around in town gear. However, it's a different story in an XP PT. Sure the game is about having fun. But if you get a rep as the type of player that goes for Fashion > Performance in XP, you will likely be spending increasing amounts of time http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e240/Yeargdribble/LFP.gif and less time actually having fun and enjoying the game.

You have the right to play the way you want, but you also have to realize this is a game populated with a lot of other people. If those people would prefer that you wear more functional gear and don't want to invite you wearing less functional gear, then you may find yourself playing with an increasingly smalll group of players.

It's much the same as RPing. I think RPing is a cool concept, but I don't really RP in the game. People that RP pretty much have to set up their own communities and don't fit well into the broader community.

I guess I just can't imagine choosing to wear a piece with nearly no good stats over a piece with good stats that's available at a low level for a low price. Nobody is asking you to buy a PCC.


EDIT: It's also not like I'm not a fan of the series. I've finished every game in the series except for CC. Most of them i've finished multiple times. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've play FFIV. It's not like I don't wanna look cool and I'll love the day when I'm running around in AF and absolutely can't wait to finish my Relic for DRG... but that doesn't mean I'll wear it all the time either. When you're a job (and in my case race) that has a rep for being crappy, your best bet is to impress the pants off of people. A good rep goes a long way in this game. People know that I wear good gear on all my jobs even if it's 'just a subjob.' People that know this throw my name in the mix and I get quick invites as a result quite often.

Likewise, the DRK from my PT the other night that didn't have ANY magic will have increasing trouble getting invites when someone asks about him and people say 'yeah, he doesn't have any spells and really crappy gear.'

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

You know, I'd read all that past the "however," however, the OP stated that he had most of this gear and used in EXP, so what's the point in pointing out gear he likely has? Not having a valkyrie or walkure mask won't kill you these days. Nor will not having sniper rings. We have lots of alternatives now.

Keep in mind, at 54+ for EXP, what's commonly fought is VT. We subscribed to accuracy and attack extremes when everything we did was IT+++.

That has changed, people who labored over RoZ or CoP need to accept things have changed. What the OP is doing is perfectly acceptable so long as he's gearing himself adequately on accuracy.

[dirtyclown]

your best bet is to impress the pants off of people

Kiss enough ass and you'll go far, amirite? Just because you are anal about your equipment doesn't mean everyone else should be too. This thread started out about a guy freaking out because the OP wasn't wearing his preferred gear set, which plagues this game, and you're exhibiting that mindset right now. Last time I checked, this game was about havng fun. If someone's fun is ruined because random DRG #2334465745 isn't wearing 3 more points of accuracy, then they need to do the world a favor and kill themselves. Also, enjoy your masochism.;)

[Yeargdribble]

I'm just saying, DRG has a bad enough rep as it is. Why make it worse for yourself and others by CHOOSING to wear subpar gear when you have better gear ON you.

Do you find it fun LFP?

There's no need to make it worse on yourself. I'm not saying everyone should go out and get 2xHQ Snipers and a PCC charm. However, the gears which he has that are better, are fairly cheap gears. Choosing not to wear them only hurts him and potentially hurts everyone else when he ends up reinforcing the loldrg stereotype.




EDIT:

I was trying to figure out why I give a crap and where I get this attitude and it came to me. I'm a musician IRL (piano and trumpet). If I go to a gig and play with a group of musicians, I could potentially not do my best, or not practice before the gig and I'd still get that gig. However, if I play my best at a gig, I will get more gigs. Word of mouth spreads if you do well at a gig.

However, I know people who've ruined their chance to get gigs by being unprepared at a gig and I've over-heard people suggesting not to give a gig to someone. The game works just like this.

Like it nor not, the game works on reputation and whether or not it's 'just a game', you have to play with others and your reputation still matters.

Everyone else is an elitist too... just to a smaller extent. If you got in a PT with a RDM with almost no gear and no spells, you'd remember it. What if he was the type that wanted to be a melee RDM and played it for fun... Besides, it's just a game, right? That RDM would get a reputation and eventually would have trouble getting invites if he only wanted to melee and level RDM for the cool looking AF.

The OP isn't like that, but it's the same principle. People who don't do well won't get far. You may say it's different because the OP has gear and uses it. Would it be better if said RDM had Cure, but refused to ever cast it because it wasn't fun to him? That is a little more exactly what the OP is doing. He has it, but doesn't use it.

While you probably wouldn't kick the OP from your PT, you would kick a RDM that refused to cast spells (Refresh anyone?) and only meleed. If you wouldn't kick him, you at least wouldn't PT with him again.

Does that make you elitist?

[dirtyclown]

I'm just saying, DRG has a bad enough rep as it is. Why make it worse for yourself and others by CHOOSING to wear subpar gear when you have better gear ON you.

Bullshit, DRG have a far better rep than they did back in 03, and anyone worth a damn knows that they've always been a solid DD. Getting wtfpwn gear only opens the door for all manner of retards to send invites.


There's no need to make it worse on yourself. I'm not saying everyone should go out and get 2xHQ Snipers and a PCC charm. However, the gears which he has that are better, are fairly cheap gears. Choosing not to wear them only hurts him and potentially hurts everyone else when he ends up reinforcing the loldrg stereotype.

You're not saying that people need to go get "good gear" but you just said in your last post that you have to have "good gear" to impress people and therefore not make DRG look bad. The OP has explained quite clearly why he uses the gear set that he has, and he's not hurting anyone by doing so. You are the one who is reinforcing the lolDRG stereotype by getting so flustered over it. It's people like you that make this entire game a pain in the ass to play, because you care too much about what others are doing. It wouldn't matter to me if the OP was prancing around in starting RSE gear, at least he isn't a tool, and that's what would make me invite him over you any day of the week.

[Greylynx]

The OP isn't like that, but it's the same principle. People who don't do well won't get far. You may say it's different because the OP has gear and uses it. Would it be better if said RDM had Cure, but refused to ever cast it because it wasn't fun to him? That is a little more exactly what the OP is doing. He has it, but doesn't use it.



I disagree with this point. A RDMs job is to Refresh, Heal(or Backup Heal), and Enfeeble. So if he isn't healing then he isn't doing part of his job. A DRGs job is to deal damage, skillchain, and often participate in SATA. I do all of those things, and I have NEVER had a complaint in a party about my performance. So your analogy might be better stated as similar to a RDM without capped magic skill, who is doing his job but could be better at it. Yes I could have another +20 ATT and be better at my job, but with or without it I am still doing whats expected of me.

Actually that makes my think about how ironic this situation is really. I have NEVER had a complaint about my performance as a DRG in a party. The complaints I get are from random /checks from people who don't seem to be able to worry about themselves and leave the rest of us alone.

After three weeks away from the game, and plenty of thinking about the situation and everyones comments here, I have changed my setup:

Head: Walk Mask
Neck: Tiger Stole
Earring: Spike Earring x2
Ring: Assailants Ring
Ring: Puisannce Ring
Body: Scorpion Harness
Waist: Lifebelt
Hands: Bastokan Mittens (Feral at 65)
Back: Amerat Mantle
Legs: Bastokan Subligar (Feral at 63)
Feet: AF (Feral at 63)

I mean at the end of the day the 70DRG was right about my gear. The issue was never that however. In my mind the issue was always the way they went about it. Funny thing is though, now that I am "decked out" in attack gear, I can't bring myself to party..... I caved into the elitism and its soured the game for me. At least when I was in my AF I was proud of my achievements as a DRG. Now I don't even have that.

[Mog]

I'm just saying, DRG has a bad enough rep as it is. Why make it worse for yourself and others by CHOOSING to wear subpar gear when you have better gear ON you.



Do you find it fun LFP?



There's no need to make it worse on yourself. I'm not saying everyone should go out and get 2xHQ Snipers and a PCC charm. However, the gears which he has that are better, are fairly cheap gears. Choosing not to wear them only hurts him and potentially hurts everyone else when he ends up reinforcing the loldrg stereotype.





{Hmmm....}

I also disagree with this statement. You seem to have missed the point of the OP. As far as I remember, Grey used the said "Subpar gear" (which I'm sure he had a reason to) during an assault mission. The higher level dragoon was an elitist ass and chose to make a big deal out of him not wearing more suited gear for drg.

People are THAT serious over assault? Assault???? People that make a big scene like that over a pick-up mission for a low-level assault should quit playing this game. Now.

He seem to use appropriate gear for his drg when partying (at least from what I've skimmed through reading) , but was only changing it up when he wanted to do something fun and leisurely, such as assault. You're making it seem that he's following the LOLdrg stereotype and not conforming to drg standards.

Cut the guy a break.

[Lmnop]

I don't really disagree with anything Yeargdribble's been saying. Main thing that I agree with that should be hammered home: Exp'ing in something subpar is bad.

Of course, I'd carry this over to equip swaps when there are so many situations where having 2 pieces of gear to swap between is better and cheaper than one expensive piece.

however, "subpar" doesn't mean "not the best." Jaridah is now Par. AF body is Subpar. AF hands are par. Battle gloves are par. SFG could be considered a bit above par. See? As long as you're par to good in most slots, you're fine.

Of course, the OP was checked and all this went down while they were standing in whitegate. Not even in the assault yet. And honestly, I like his gear choices. Wearing battle gloves seems similar to Warriors who don't use Shield Break because they could be doing better damage with something else. SFG are great, but it really makes me wonder just how much of an acc boost those gloves give your wyvern.

I wear full AF (I'm warrior, it doesn't even look good) and level 14 accessories all the time. >.> Doubtless people who don't know me think I'm gimped beyond all belief. But I doubt those people have 3.5 equipment set-ups.

[LilithAngel]

it really makes me wonder just how much of an acc boost those gloves give your wyvern.

Just as an aside, whenever I go into the Imperial Agent Rescue Assault in Mamool Ja TG, I bring the AF hands. I was experimenting with letting the wyvern be my sole source of damage/mob TP, and I noticed that the acc was a little low, so I tried on the AF hands, and to my surprise, the *massive* nin evasion that the mob displayed just up and disappeared in an instant; my wyvern's acc had literally shot through the roof.

This is part of why I believe every piece of the Dragoon AF has a purpose. I managed to upgrade AF body, so I can now wear that full time to get a constant Regen effect for my wyvern *at the same time* as having what pretty much amounts to a Hauby effect for myself full time. AF boots macroed in for Jump. AF pants for /mage. AF gloves for when your wyvern needs to be the one to do damage (Genbu and some of the other gods/HNMs come to mind). AF helm for Breaths. The Relic set is even more specialist in nature (relic pants for High Jump, relic helm as part of a Healing Breath macro alongside AF helm). It's not what each piece does, it's how you use it that counts.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

The OP isn't like that, but it's the same principle. People who don't do well won't get far. You may say it's different because the OP has gear and uses it. Would it be better if said RDM had Cure, but refused to ever cast it because it wasn't fun to him? That is a little more exactly what the OP is doing. He has it, but doesn't use it.

People who don't do well get very far lately. (see the ToA generation of lolWAR, lolBRD, lolNIN and lolMNKs for reference).


People are THAT serious over assault? Assault???? People that make a big scene like that over a pick-up mission for a low-level assault should quit playing this game. Now.

Yeah, that's pretty much my thing. My RNG ritually goes into CoP missions without a belt or backpiece. Is that bad? There's not much to gain in those slots til later. Why waste the gil when I have to sink it into oils and other stuff for this mission. Its not like i'm going to make everyone lose the BCNM if I don't.

Same thing with assault. If all I'm gonna do is flail at a stone wall, kill some worms or get flung against some gate I don't really think gear is a major factor there. Assault objectives are not always "kill them all," ya know.

And in NM camping, I'll shed some excess gear or AF just to make room for whatever crystals or misc loot I'm going to get. Its not crucial to have uber gear at all times, only in EXP, high level BCNMs and endgame content.

[Vyuru]

Wow, quite alot of really good replies.

If you think there's no point in getting the Republic Subligar at 25 because it's only Atk+5 then why even bother getting Feral Trousers at 63 with the exact same stats (give or take a few DEF)?

If you say this about every piece of gear, you quickly end up in a situation of having crappy gear over all. Why wear Battle Gloves? They are only Acc+3. Same with Venerer's... why bother? Same with the Peti... it's only 5 atk and only 5 acc.


I don't think there is no point in getting the Feral trousers at 63, just that there is little point. Right now at 67, just guessing at the numbers I'd say I have about 311 attack with my exp gear on, and about 250 defense. Toss in Berserk, and the possibility of meat dishes, and the +3-5 attack from those leg armors is really negligible.

AF head vs Valk/Walk mask? Well, Lumiere may not use the breath attack that the enemy is weakest to all the time, but she almost never uses one that the enemy is strong to either, so I see little benefit to wearing the AF helm. Of courses I've met other dragoons who claim that their wyvern used breaths that the enemy was strong to constantly, and they either used the AF helm or used an equipment swap macro for WS to swap it in. So this is another piece of gear that I could see a dragoon using or not using. Since my wyven is pretty good in choosing her breath attacks, I see little benefit to the AF helm, that doesn't mean though that someone else won't find it useful.

I think you could make an arguement that the AF legs would enhance your Wyvern's breath attacks for more damage than the Republic/Bastoken/Feral legs would enhance your damage, so I wouldn't call them useless. All of the above leg armor look to be at least roughly equivilant.

Like I said earlier, if the rest of his gear is good, there will be little to no difference if he chooses to wear something else in that slot, and since the OP is around lvl 60, I was thinking of that armor in that context. I do agree that at a lower level this gear would make much more of a difference.


and anyone worth a damn knows that they've always been a solid DD. Getting wtfpwn gear only opens the door for all manner of retards to send invites.


The people who are worth a damn are the people I would tend to want to do CoP missions with, and are sadly lacking. There are alot more high level people who I would have to say know little to nothing about this game. Given that most of my interaction with other players is in exp parties now, and I would have to say that roughly 70% of the players I have met are idiots, not counting the level 30 and below crowd who tend to be worse.


I caved into the elitism and its soured the game for me. At least when I was in my AF I was proud of my achievements as a DRG. Now I don't even have that.

I still say that if you want to change your gear that you should find a setup that works for you and your style of play.

You know, my personal preference is to go with gear that boosts my base stats, such as str, and gear that boosts my accuracy. Don't forget that for every 2 points to your base stats you gain 1 point increase in it's corresponding stat. My Enkelados's Bracelets have +7 str on them, that translates to +3 attack as well. Another example would be some dragoons favor the Royal Knight's Belt +1, I favor the Vanguard belt for the mixed +str/att it gives.

Find the stats that are important to you that you want to boost that you feel would best enhance your performance, use what others have suggested as a guide as to what to do.


LilithAngel brings up a entire host of good uses for the AF armor in her post. Saw that before I posted this.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Just to note, people who say that AF helm is useless - those people have never, ever soloed DRG. Its a big boost if you're using a mage sub to have that HB trigger jump from 1/3 HP to 1/2. And if you do go with the balanced wyvern (DRK, PLD, BRD, NIN sub), you're jumping from a 1/4 HP trigger to 1/3.

EXP and Endgame are not the end-all/be-all context in which gear should be judged. There are applications elsewhere. That flute BRDs get for Assault isn't that hot all around because the Ballad +1 effect only applies to Assault, but if you're big on Assault, its the only BRD instrument in the game that does something to Ballads, so it has a purpose.

[Caspian]

Wow, quite alot of really good replies.
I don't think there is no point in getting the Feral trousers at 63, just that there is little point. Right now at 67, just guessing at the numbers I'd say I have about 311 attack with my exp gear on, and about 250 defense. Toss in Berserk, and the possibility of meat dishes, and the +3-5 attack from those leg armors is really negligible.
Except for the fact that your damage isn't so much based on your total attack, but the check b/w your attack and the mob's defense, and likewise your str v. the mob's vit.
Its not an ungodly amount of attack, but it does make a difference. And in reference to what Yeargdribble was saying and to which you were responding, if you have that same attitude about every piece of gear with 5 atk, then you're denying yourself many pieces which "only" give 5 attack. That attack adds up and makes a much bigger difference.

That flute BRDs get for Assault isn't that hot all around because the Ballad +1 effect only applies to Assault, but if you're big on Assault, its the only BRD instrument in the game that does something to Ballads, so it has a purpose.
Though it may be ridiculously expensive and a pipedream for most, Gjallarhorn does give +2 to ballad in all areas.

[Jei]

I think we know about relic horn. But any relic in general are just... out of reach for the majority of the population. Hell, people said I'm the richest craftman in my social LS and I can't even afford a kraken club.

I usually filter all damages done by others. Unless someone really is using bad bad gear (like level 10 scale mails at level 50+) I'm not going to complain. You can wear a full AF DRG in my party and not that I'll care really.

I recently ran into some BS similar to this. It was a level 49-50 ranger, rank 10, somewhere around that. Flagged as J only. So I sent tell in japanese telling my party set up which he accepted. We were making our way to our camp, which is the beetle behind garlaige door #2 I think....

The ranger then just ran into a bomb without invis, aggro, died, HPed, left PT without a word. Turned out he was indeed NA without a single clue about japanese. I talked to his room mate, he said the Rng thought my PT "didn't meet his expectation" so he purposely did that to screw us up.

I mean, wtf!? He was seeking with J, and I did tell him my PT set up. If he didn't understand it why the hell J. Not to mention he's rank 10, is the leader of the best Sea LS, just unlocked relic G Katana. Still, he can be an ass hole.

The name's Map if you're curious. Omgwtf probably knows who he is.

All that you see... is why I prefer a PT member that doesn't cause problem. If they have godly gear, good. If not, I don't care. Just don't pick a fight with other members, do what your job's supposed to do, don't start up drama, don't leave only 5 minutes into the hunt, don't go AFK for 30 minutes, stick to the group for at least 3 hours and I'm a happy leader.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Though it may be ridiculously expensive and a pipedream for most, Gjallarhorn does give +2 to ballad in all areas.

My understanding is that it only affects duration. But then, the only person I know lf that has one is on my server and I never see him play BRD these days.

The name's Map if you're curious. Omgwtf probably knows who he is.

The only thing he does know is endgame, he's not much good for anything else. He's also an expert on DRGs and why they suck (he's 57 DRG, so wow, a real expert) and rabidly defended his "wall of justice" wins of AV. He's a real piece of work.

[Caspian]

My understanding is that it only affects duration. But then, the only person I know lf that has one is on my server and I never see him play BRD these days.
Icemage and a few other people I've talked to about it, all say its +2 to each song. Makes for +7 with both ballads.
Like I said though, don't really count relics as normal equipment.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Icemage and a few other people I've talked to about it, all say its +2 to each song. Makes for +7 with both ballads.
Like I said though, don't really count relics as normal equipment.

Yeah, nice as that may be, doesn't seem worth all the work to get it. Hell, some relics aren't even as good as other weapons you can get outside of Dynamis or pre-endgame, so its hard to see the point to any of it. An exclusive WS is cute and all, but when you have things like Ridill, Joyeuse or Temperance Axe out there, its hard to care about the relic if your job can equip those, though Ridill... good luck with that one :eek:

But even with the "attainable"gear, not all of us want to slave over farming to get Sniper Rings +1 and all that. Sushi and rings you can get from CoP NMs and ENMs pretty much address that issue, not to mention Jaridah set. Since Jaridah came out, Scorpion Harness lost a lot of ground.

[Yeargdribble]

My understanding is that it only affects duration. But then, the only person I know lf that has one is on my server and I never see him play BRD these days.

As Caspian said, it is indeed 7MP/tick. 2+2 & 2+1. An aquaintance of mine has one. My wife has PT'd with him on ocassion and seen it first hand.

As for Map... Map is a gimp. I don't care if he has an lolsash. He has an underleveled WAR sub for his SAM. He's nothing more than a drama-whore and an asshole. Pulling stunts like what he did are horrible. It's ridiculous to do that to anyone in the game. I am nothing like Map.


The problem here is misunderstanding. People want to make me out to be the type that kicks you from a PT if you don't have a PCC and Sniper's +1. In reality, I rarely even check people just to avoid seeming rude to those that don't like it. Beyond that, I almost never comment on someone's gear unless I am specifically asked to or it's something along the lines of wearing an event body to tank in.

Items like PCC are sheer ultra luxury items. They are nice if you have them, but they are luxury due to their performance/price ratio. The gear I'm talking about it stuff that is far cheaper.

You can incrementally say that XXX piece of gear isn't that good, but like Caspian said, it adds up. Battle Gloves+Republic Greaves (depending on conquest) = Sniper's +1 at a fraction of the cost. 2xBeetle Earring+1 and Republic Subligar = 11 atk... that's the same as SFG at a fraction of the cost. Not only are these at a fraction of the cost, but they are lower level.

If you have a lot of money then go for the luxury items if it suits you. However, don't think that I'm gonna tell someone they must have luxury items. I merely think that if you have the items available to you, I hope you were them in XP.

If you have the item and refuse to wear it for sheer vanity sake, then you are treading toward gimpness. If I, as a BRD, decided that I should wear AF and no staff for vanity sake, I could get someone killed when my sleep failed. Perhaps a DRG isn't gonna potentially kill someone, but if every person in your PT takes the attitude of "it's only a tiny bit better", it will add up enough to significantly slow down XP.

People who post on this forum are obviously more resourceful than the majority of people that play the game. That's probably why I hold them to a higher standard. If you are resourceful enough to know what gear is superior, then you should use it.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
--Edmund Burke


Yeah, that's pretty much my thing. My RNG ritually goes into CoP missions without a belt or backpiece. Is that bad? There's not much to gain in those slots til later. Why waste the gil when I have to sink it into oils and other stuff for this mission. Its not like i'm going to make everyone lose the BCNM if I don't.

There's a hint of implication here to paint me in a light that is not fitting. Having leveled many melees through low levels, I'm keenly aware that there's really nothing for them on a handful of slots (with the back being most conspicuous). I personally have taken to wearing the Talisman Cape on melee jobs in XP, though I think it's a luxury and can understand why you'd go capeless for many lower capped missions.


Same thing with assault. If all I'm gonna do is flail at a stone wall, kill some worms or get flung against some gate I don't really think gear is a major factor there. Assault objectives are not always "kill them all," ya know.

Actualy, as I type, I'm doing an assault in Ilrusi. My SMN friend likes to solo it and just needs 2 extra bodies to let him in, so my wife and myself are happy to go join. I'm currently wearing hardly any gear except for some of my Relic (which is mostly worthless mind you). If it's not pertinent, I say don't wear it.


And in NM camping, I'll shed some excess gear or AF just to make room for whatever crystals or misc loot I'm going to get. Its not crucial to have uber gear at all times, only in EXP, high level BCNMs and endgame content.

I agree with you so I'd appreciate that people stop trying to vilify me for things I didn't say. However, you said it yourself that good gear (you actually said uber, which I wouldn't necessarily agree with) in XP. This is what I'm talking about. If you have good gear available for a not ungodly price, then you should wear it in situations like XP. There's really no excuse to wear AF when you have something better available for a very reasonable price and especially if you already own the gear.

[Vyuru]

Except for the fact that your damage isn't so much based on your total attack, but the check b/w your attack and the mob's defense, and likewise your str v. the mob's vit.
Its not an ungodly amount of attack, but it does make a difference.

Even so, with my example I still don't see how one piece alone that offers +3att could be really helpfull when you have over 300 attack. Granted, I don't fully understand how the damage is calculated, but that's just how I see it. To me it's like asking why aren't you wearing a +3acc piece when you have +60acc in gear, it seems to me to be overkill at that point and not needed, especially if you think there is an alternative piece of armor that is as good or possibly better.

Battle Gloves+Republic Greaves (depending on conquest) = Sniper's +1 at a fraction of the cost.

On my server Windurst typically controls the areas that people don't normally exp in, beginner areas, areas around Jeuno, and the northlands. I really wish I could rely on regional control so that I could use the special conquest gear like the Rupublic Greaves.

The problem here is misunderstanding. People want to make me out to be the type that kicks you from a PT if you don't have a PCC and Sniper's +1.

No, I don't think so, at least I have not gotten that impression from you, you seem more the player who expects others to play as best as they reasonably can, and not some crazy elitist like DirtyClown suggests. While I might disagree with you on a few points concerning which gear is better than others, I do think your advice is sound, and you bring up some very good points.

[dirtyclown]

No, I don't think so, at least I have not gotten that impression from you, you seem more the player who expects others to play as best as they reasonably can, and not some crazy elitist like DirtyClown suggests.

I remember the part where I called him a tool, but I don't recall the crazy elitist part. Care to refresh my memory?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

As for Map... Map is a gimp. I don't care if he has an lolsash. He has an underleveled WAR sub for his SAM. He's nothing more than a drama-whore and an asshole. Pulling stunts like what he did are horrible. It's ridiculous to do that to anyone in the game. I am nothing like Map.

Wow, people on other servers know that about him? Well, it was on Titan KI fourms in his thread where he bragged about his relic katana. Still... kinda sad.

And OK, maybe I went a little far on what I said. Sorry about that. I've had a real evil streak I'm trying to work off (happens like once or wice a year). Didn't help I've been on disability for 3 months with no where to go :biggrin: I'm better now.

There was a BRD I PTed with yesterday. Not the usual BRD/NIN that I typically dread, but a BRD/WHM. Had Bard's Roundlet and a Light Staff. Well, apparently they just let roundlets drop to anyone in Dynamis these days because when I /checked her gear (I don't care if its percieved as rude, you can filter it out) I saw the following:

2 Level 36 CHR rings.
Sandorian Horn (only instrument she had)
AFv1 Pants and Body
Jester's Cape (NQ).

Now, BRD is a really, really, really cheap job. Really cheap. I'm not expecting a shi'ar manteele out of you, but at 73, I'd like to see some higher level Rings, multiple macroed HQ instruments, Errant Body and an HQ Jester's Cape. There's a distinct difference between having adequate gear and not trying at all. Melees have it harder, so I'm OK with adequate gear on melee, but BRDs don't have it as hard at all. All of the gear I listed is cheap an attainable, you just have to take some time off from zomgEXP to get it.

People have a nasty habit of making a b-line for 75, I've never understood it. Don't fix your job in post, do right by it as you level. It doesn't have to be the best-of-the-best gear, but at least show you're trying.

[Yeargdribble]

People have a nasty habit of making a b-line for 75, I've never understood it. Don't fix your job in post, do right by it as you level. It doesn't have to be the best-of-the-best gear, but at least show you're trying.

I agree 100% with this. This is the reason I don't already have a ton of jobs at 75. I'd say I go a step beyond most in the effort to gear myself well as I go, but I just wish people would gear themselves adequately and have some pride in the jobs they play as they level. I really despise the trend of "I'll get to 75 and then I'll worry about gear."

Also, despise 1 instrument BRDs. I don't care if you have 5 jobs at 75 and a Dalmy +1 (true story), use more than the friggin San'dorian Horn or just retire BRD.

As far as Map, he is well known for being the owner of a Ninurta's Sash which has started so much drama it's unreal.

[Lmnop]

Yearg, the one thing you didn't really address is "situational." To me, everything's situational. I like to see my DRGs swapping to AF body between pulls. You know -- actually trying to keep the rat alive. And since I dread letting people know I have a haubergeon (it's gotten easier now than when I was only level 59), I tend to use it only explicitly in combat. Strange habits, sure. But I see no reason to be punished for it.

Vyuru was right about +STR, actually. Attack vs Defense and STR vs VIT is true. But in addition, 2 STR=1 Attack and 2 VIT= 1 Defense. Making STR+ gear truely "Doubly useful." Of course, this is offset by the fact that STR comes in smaller amounts.

However, one thing that wasn't taken into consideration: +5 attack will become +8 attack. +40 attack will become +56 attack. Meat Dishes and Berserk are % based, and thus take into account all static numbers first.

Easy way to test: put on swordbelt, your attack raises by 10. take off swordbelt, use berserk. your attack raises by 25% of it's old number. put swordbelt back on, you gain +12-13 attack.

[LadyKiKi]

People have a nasty habit of making a b-line for 75, I've never understood it. Don't fix your job in post, do right by it as you level. It doesn't have to be the best-of-the-best gear, but at least show you're trying.

*LadyKiKi hides. :P

I wear Battle Gloves at 75 when I don't have my AF on me (i.e. for farming).

I'm too cheap to buy anything else. My most recent purchase was a pair of Flame Rings.

[Vyuru]

*LadyKiKi hides.

No one can hide from the Eye of Sauron! http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a163/vyuru/untitled.jpg

Couldn't resist :P

[dirtyclown]

Pic removed.

The above is a perfect example of what this thread has become.

Caspian>> DC, its unnecessary and inappropriate. Please refrain from needless trolling.