(yet another) Valkurm Dunes Rant

[Eauijhkuu]

Salutations.

Eauijkuu here.

Pissed to no end, when my feet hit the dunes and I'm faced with some horrid...just...irritatingly well expected series of happenings while I decide to level my RDM through dunes.

I guess even I came here as a newbie once. And you know what, I think it's great that newbies can gather together in this specific area and learn the ins and outs of what makes a party a party. This is a good thing for people who are new, to learn the game's mechanics - the pure basics of PT fundamentals.

But I think I have a slight problem with you when you've been through this craphole 5+ times with higher level jobs, and I see your HP bar suddenly dwindle from 300 to 140 to 0. What? Death by Agro? 7 times in one day in the same party? This is all too much I could ask for from more than four people today. So now that you've succeeded in irritating me, I have a few questions for you:

HOW many times have you been through Valkurm Dunes?
HOW many times have you agroed goblins and known that they obviously agro by sight?
HOW many times have you agroed bats and known that they were obviously agressive to sound?
Knowing that you were going to have to travel past 2 tunnels full of bats and potentially guarded by goblins, would you have made slight preparations just as you would in any other higher level party by purchasing items for sneaking and invising?
How much time am I going to lose by looking for a raise?
How wrong would I be for kicking your sorry cheap gimped unprepared carcass from my group?

WHY the heck...do people...take jobs through this zone...5 + times... acting clueless?!
Witnessing 7 deaths in one hour is just not cool.
Especially when they're all from agro.

We camped at the Secret hidden beach over near C-6 in Valkurm dunes...and in the process of inviting more players to replace old ones.
WHM died twice on his way getting to camp.
SMN died once, and had to wait 40 minutes to get a raise from a WHM who was pissing and moaning about having to run all the way over to C-6 to raise one person just for the shere pleasure of it all (Because he'll get sand under his perfectly peticured toenails! oh noes!)
PLD d/cs and dies from the WHM's agro, that he pulls to Camp...and doesn't zone.
THF Dies trying to get to camp.
WHM dies again coming from camp.
NIN dies twice coming from Konstatch Highlands. First from Tremor Ram. Then from agroed 3 bats(Not to mention all the other monsters he agroed along the way, which should of killed his lame arse). He dies, and figures that he's being inconveninced, and decides to HP back to Whitegate.

And the party has yet to start, mind you.
And this is all action from agroed mobs!
:vent:
You would flipping think that flipping people would learn the flipping first time and bring some flipping powders or oils if they can't flipping understand how to flipping avoid flipping mob agro in the first flippin place, instead of causing massive player wipe on the server. Stop being so flippin' cheap and flippin' unlearned. There's no flippin' excuse as to why you shouldn't be able to afford them anymore either, because flippin' prices on the flippin' AH are flippin' 10 times lower than what they used to be.

UGH.
Get learn't or go home!

/end rant.

:angry: Now where's that bag of skittles?

[Cavick]

You're scaring me about going to the dunes my first time -_-

[Eauijhkuu]

Good.

Even thought we are possibly on different servers (hail Bahamut)
Don't you be a victim to this ignorant magnonimous bullcrap.

Ignorance is by no means an excuse to be gimped.

[Sabaron]

You're supposed to provide an escort for mages through the Secret Beach tunnel. They cannot pass it themselves without Powder/Oil and a lot of low-levels are new and don't have money. You can't expect newbs with virtually no farming ability or crafting skill to pony up 30-40k for stealth items -and- keep their gear and spells up to date. Be nice.

A lot of high-levels get lazy about stealth because they have a tendency to run through areas where they're on the top of the food chain. This sets in a bit of subconscious laziness.

It should be a trivial matter for high-levs to pay for stealth in this region--that is as inexcusable as not bringing stealth to other dangerous areas like Ifrit's Cauldron.

[Eauijhkuu]

You're supposed to provide an escort for mages through the Secret Beach tunnel. They cannot pass it themselves without Powder/Oil and a lot of low-levels are new and don't have money. You can't expect newbs with virtually no farming ability or crafting skill to pony up 30-40k for stealth items -and- keep their gear and spells up to date. Be nice.

A lot of high-levels get lazy about stealth because they have a tendency to run through areas where they're on the top of the food chain. This sets in a bit of subconscious laziness.

It should be a trivial matter for high-levs to pay for stealth in this region--that is as inexcusable as not bringing stealth to other dangerous areas like Ifrit's Cauldron.

:huh: And my party is supposed to just stop everything that they're doing, and escort a party member, right?


If you can't avoid agro. Buy stealth items. Period.
I don't care who you are, what level you are, what job you are, how experienced you think you are, and at higher levels, they won't either.

Big deal if you're wearing insanely uber gear and have all of your spells.
If you can't make it to point A from point B without dying or endangering the party, what use are you to the group?

I would rather you stealth your way to a party spot instead of agroing everything in your path before you even reach camp, and then be forced to wait for a Raise from an edgy WHM who doesn't care much to bother to walk and find your dead carcass lying in the sands.

Because there's not going to be an escort available all the time, just like there wasn't in my instance Since I had to heal an already active party in the first place.

And I'm not going to be biased to mages either; A good Melee has the same, if not more, monetary issues to deal with concerning stealth items and gear and food. You're going to show heavy understanding for that THF that wanted to skill up his marksmanship and grab some +1 gear as well, and yet, agroes everything in his path? And honestly, what mage or melee is ever wearing 10k worth of gil in gear at that level anymore?

[Icemage]

You can't expect new players to understand these mechanics. That's what you get for inviting people to party in Valkurm - it just happens, live with it or stay away from that hellhole.

I'm working on my 4th job through Dunes level, but I'll admit I hate that place with a passion. Maze of Shakrami and Korroloka Tunnel are 10 times better if you can get even 2 other people to come with you. There's really no need to go to Valkurm if you know what you're doing.

If you absolutely insist on going to "VD", then the only way to avoid a repeat performance of this is for you to bring extra stealth meds and personally escort these ninnies across the zone.


Icemage

[eticket109]

Getting aggro on the way to camp is just how it goes in the dunes. I know I didn't buy oils and powders for my first trip through the dunes. I wouldn't expect anyone else to either.

On another note, if someone bites it on the secret beach... look for a Raise from a 40 pt in Gustav. They're a bit closer, though if they are into heavy xp, they may not be able to come out for a while.

[Aeolus]

Salutations.

Aeolus here.

You should stay in the dunes and personally educate every new person or newb 2nd jober that zones into valkurm, supply them with oils/powders and maybe even escort them to their parties only helping if they pull aggro so they can learn to dodge aggro themselves without death. And maybe use another word than flipping or just miss it out of your sentences completey.

[tdh]

I've leveled all of the following jobs in the Dunes at one point or another. Some of them I leveled almost entirely in the Dunes from Lv.10 to Lv.19 or 20.

RDM
BLM
WHM
WAR
THF
MNK
DRK
RNG
BRD
NIN
DRG
SAM

I've been aggro'd and killed by Gobbys more times than I ever care to admit, and I'd have to say about 50% of them happened in the Dunes. I've run through the Bat tunnel and narrowly escaped to the zone with my life. And as much as I have hated that ashtray of Vana'diel, it has taught me to skirk the edge of detection and avoid a lot of aggro.

My first job to Lv.75 was RDM, so basically I didn't need to bring Sneak/Invis items by the time I really needed them. Well I've been leveling a lot of melee jobs, and I always have the items handy now. So if I find myself in Qufim when the lights go out, I just pop a Silent Oil and walk right past the Wights with out a worry.

[IfritnoItazura]

Part of the fault is with the leader.

I don't think it's much work for leaders to remind invitee:

"You need to get through a tunnel to reach camp, and gobliins like to gather at the entrance--make sure you bring Silent Oil and Prism Powder (or Shinobi-Tabi)"

Part of the fault is with the player coming to camp.

If someone hasn't picked up the fact that you need Silent Oil and Prism Powder (or Shinobi-Tabi) when not on chocobo by the 2nd or 3rd time in Valkurm Dunes, that person is just stupid. Laziness is a form of stupidity, too, of course.

I always have a full or nearly full stack of silent oil, prism powder, and echo drop in my inventory. Usually, also a Reraise item as well. I' was tempted to bring Antidotes last time I was in VD, but decided to use the inventory space for juice material instead. It's hard to believe the number of WHM's out there w/out Barfira and Poisona, though.

Part of the fault is with the people in party who have already seen deaths on way to camp not reminding leader and inviteee to take precaution, too, BTW.

* * *

The only time I can remember being invited to any place other than Valkrum Dunes at those levels is to Gusgen Mines. It sucked, badly. If I only knew that's where they were headed--I could have easily predicated that my RNG's damage on skeletons wouldn't exactly be impressive.

[Anaki]

the problem i see people i stating that to play ffxi you have to use a walkthrough which is really a stupid point of view.

your first job you just started the game you are lvl 10 at this point in time you probably do not know about sneak and invisible. you may not know that mobs aggro to sound or sight by now heck all you know for monsters is some aggro and some dont. also oils/powders are NOT cheap so if you cant afford them at lvl 10 then you cant afford them at lvl 10. and laziness and lack of knowing are not the same thing.

if the people have lvled past dunes and KNOW of aggro and the sort then they are just lazy/stupid for getting killed. but if its your first time then your not lazy or stupid you just have yet to get killed alot in dunes to learn of how dunes works.

[Nerotu]

:huh: And my party is supposed to just stop everything that they're doing, and escort a party member, right?
But didn't you just say that the party hadn't even started yet? Wouldn't that imply that those of you waiting at the beach were basically just sitting there?
No matter what level you used to be, getting through the dunes at a low level (especially as a mage and especially alone) is very tough.
When a few of your Party members are coming from Konschtat Highlands, you could have chose a meeting point such as the exit to the cave, or maybe even the OutPost.
It's the leaders job to get everyone together, not just invite them and let them make their own way, but to help each other out and get to camp.
To be honest, if they got aggroed by Gobs, that's their own fault. Stay clear from gobs is all I have to say. But getting aggroed by bats can't be helped.
Think about it, which would have been quicker? Watching their healths going down and then dieing, and then spending your time shouting for a raise and meeting up again? Or meeting at a designated spot, and then travel through the dangerous areas together? (such as caves and the gob camp)

[Jei]

I think it's so expected really, people aggroing bats and die in tunnels, that's the VK fun xD

If the person is rank 10 and still do that tho, I would be upset too.

[Taermus]

I haven't been to Valkurm to xp for a long time. I've leveled 10 jobs there, and I'm going to solo whatever's left to 18~20.

The main reason is that camp. It's garbage. The mobs there don't pop fast enough, and their xp spread is foul. You get yellow hp during nighttime and you're dead. If you do die, it takes forever to get back from your hp, and waste more oil and dust (tonko does 1 job out of 18 any good at this level). I really would like to know what the fascination with the place is.

The xp loss from death at these levels is laughable. Man up and hp.

[Riian]

AAHHHHHHHHHH the doones...

Everybody hates the dunes and you all are right. A mixture of noobs with lazy high lvl players who are to good for oils/powders in the dunes is not a fun mixture. Best way to keep a party safe in the dunes is meet up at a zone and keep close together avoiding gobs along the way. A party can take those bats no problem. I find it hard to give noobs advice in the dunes though. One tries to be helpful because OBVIOUSLY some ppl need the advice and then they act offended or give you that crap about "I have 4 75 lvl jobs and I think I know what I'm doing!" B.S. These days I don't give advice unless somebody asks or is OBVIOUSLY a fresh on the sands noob. It's not worth it. You'd think though that a lvl 10 who somehow managed to get from say windy to selbina would have a few extra oils/powders on him/her from the trip across Bur. Penninsula.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

You know, you can aggro the Sand Bats in both of the tunnels and run away from them and eventually, they will de-aggro. So, to be perfectly honest with you, unless you have extremely pathetic HP, don't maneuver well with your character, or stop dead in your tracks, the tunnels should not be an issue for any character. Besides that, I think like..... after LV14 or so, if you are a melee, you can solo the Sand Bats. Seems to me that a BLM could do that same thing to, even with Bind. I know as RDM, its quite easy to solo the bats. Maybe not if you are level 10, but then again, if you are not at LV13 or higher and trying to go thru the passages into Valkurm Dunes proper, you really shouldn't be going through the tunnels to meet an XP party. You have no business xping outside of the Konschtat zone lol. Unless, you're desperate for some form of a party. w

Gobs, on the other hand, are a whole different matter. But, the funny thing is, I've walked right behind the back of a Gob time and time again, never getting aggro. Even walking to their side on the left and right and it was no big deal. Its only until you get at a 45 or 90 degree angle that they start to go apesh*t and chase you lol.

I mean, where's the MGS leet skeelz at? Unless you are a glutton for punishment and like to repeat mistakes over and over again to waste time and anger a bunch of quote/unquote "fellow party members," you should be using your tactical Metal Gear Solid skills of stealth. And if you haven't played MGS, then you have no business playing FF11! lolu

[Celeal]

Isn't the secret beach a popular XP camp site O.o? 7 death within an hour for just unable to get to the camp, something is really wrong.

[FatCharlie]

Personally I feel if it's a player's 2nd or more time through the Dunes there is absolutely no excuse not to bring oils/powders with prices these days. 16-20k for a stack of oils AND powders. What veteran player cannot afford that?

As for the leader warning the n00b, meh. I don't think I've ever been in a PT outside my LS at any level where the leader gave me any warning or advice on what to bring. This is a game of assumptions.

I think it falls more upon the LS to prepare n00bs for their adventures. I know my first time through the dunes I shouted out in my LS that I got my 1st PT invite, and numerous people in my LS reminded me to bring oils/powders.

[Emurei]

HOW many times have you been through Valkurm Dunes?

Considering I have 10 Jobs at Lv18 or higher and 1 Job (Blm) at Lv17 for warp obviously. Sooooo I been through the dunes twice :D and normally I bring friends, not a PL I'm aginst that, but other people in my LS or friendlist that is level a job around that level. So people tend to do as they are told if I invite a random extra. And most of the time I invite someone that doesn't have a subjob, just to have a chance to teach them a few things, and well spoil them with good party setup. I sometimes get thanked randomly from people I don't know cause of that gives me a warm fuzzy inside.

"Only twice you ask?" You see us Windy peeps have this place called the Maze where we fight you know non-moving, non-aggroing worms that gives really good exp and is extremely easy. Right after you hit 16-17 range you move to the extremely unpopulated area outside of Mhaura or travel to K.tunnel in Bastok to fight more, dare I say, overly easy worms till you hit 19-20 than you go and deal with the qufim undead woes ;) Heck I even did my subjob quest in Mhaura so long long long long time ago. As well as most of my LS mates :D

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Just got SAM through the dunes in the last few days and went to join a PT with a friend since I was still level 20 last night and she was level 19.

So we get to the secret beach camp. I see an assortment of people in my PT with 75 jobs and... they aggro the bats in the tunnel, pull mobs when the RNG was designated to be the puller and piss and moan about any EXP that isn't IT+ EXP.

So basically, this was the traditional Valkurm PT everyone hates. Funny thing is, I had better PTs with the actual Rank 1 newbies than I did these guys. Perhaps the newbies these days - in thier hopes to catch up starting so late in the game - actually listen now.

Our WHM in particular was a major whiner about the EXP. This I don't really understand because in Valkurm, no job as at the level where you can constantly chain IT with ease and this is why you pull the Ts and VTs instead. I think there's a sector of high level players that just forget that and commence the piss and moan because their expectations are skewed.

At some point in the PT, I ended up tanking instead of the PLD. He apparently didn't know what provoke was or how to cast cures, so after one simple WS, I'm beaten senseless by a pugil and die. Not a huge deal to me, in fact, I wasn't even pointing fingers.

But as I laid there waiting for Raise (our PL had apparently wandered off because he had more important matters to attend to, like killing leeches), the WHM asks my RNG friend to pull while I recovered, but not to pull T or VT, just IT. This for the umpteenth time after I told her upteen times to quit crabbing about the EXP.

So I bit her damn head off this time. And she's all like "Chill, its just a game." And I'm like "If its just a game to you, quit complaining about the EXP in the damn dunes."

Then I unweaken. My RNG friend goes to pull, in fact, has had a macro specifying exactly what she intends to pull - a damselfly. The other SAM in my PT runs off and smacks a pugil. I two hour the fly while pugil is being, lol, kited by the other SAM, then I help them take down the pug, but WHM dies. We kill the pug and just as we do... a bogy aggros the other SAM. He dies. Both morons dead :)

I zone to Gustav, don my chocobo whistle, zone back out and call forth my noble steed, LuckyOutlaw. My friend uses her warp scroll. We're out.

I still have BLM to take to 18, and WHM and THF to get through Valkurm as subjobs and then I am NEVER, eeeeeeever, going back again.

[Celeal]

I agree with Omgwtfbbqkitten. Before level 20, when you only need 3k or 5k to gain next level (sorry, I don't have the exact number with me), you don't really need 200+ xp per mob and exp. chain #5... :wtf: T and VT mob is a good idea in Dunes.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

I hate it when the "divas" in the pt start to complain about what kind of mobs are being pulled (like the WHM complaining about only pulling ITs, and not Ts and VTs), especially when I'm the puller. They're not the ones out there /checking the mobs, and finding that everything out there only cons VT. I've had players complain like that in the Dunes when they were level 19 ~ 20. At that low level range, a mob has to be at least 6 levels above the party to con IT. That means that the Gobs will only rarely con IT at lvl 19, and never at lvl 20. The Damselflies haven't conned IT since lvl 17. At lvl 19, even the Beach Pugils are just as likely to con T/VT as they are to con IT. These players just seem to have no clue what mobs are even out there.

Another thing that irks me when players complain about the mobs getting pulled: when they demand only IT or IT+, and never IT++. The players who complain about that are usually the mages, who happen to be weilding a weapon type for which their skill is horribly under leveled. Why does that matter? Because a player's weapon skill has a huge impact on whether or not a mob comes up as high defense and high evasion. I remember having this happen to me in the Dunes long ago. And I had it happen fairly recently... in Bibiki Bay.

/rant

[Celeal]

Because they only care about the big number of exp for yield from the IT++, have no clue about melee, mob spawn time, other parties in the area, etc. They are not the ones out there to pull...

[Vyuru]

Because they only care about the big number of exp for yield from the IT++, have no clue about melee, mob spawn time, other parties in the area, etc. They are not the ones out there to pull...


Not only that, but they fail to realise that there is a certain level range that a mob can spawn within, and so by killing the T and VT you might just get a IT mob to pop in a little bit.

Myself, I don't carry sneak oils or prism powders to the dunes. I can avoid goblin aggro most of the time, once I have a melee job between level 13-14 I can normally survive a fight with a sand bat, since I won't be going over to the Selbina area until then anyway, I don't need sneak oils to avoid the sand bats in the tunnel. Undead I just give a wide berth to so sneak oils for them is rather pointless IMO. If I'm in one of the towns and get an invite to the secret beach, then I would bring along some sneak oils, but I'm not running back to town to get them if I get an invite while in Valkurm. I don't bring reraise items to the dunes either, but I will set my home point at the outpost in case I die, and if there is no raise capable whm standing next to me then I will homepoint rather than wait for a raise.

I think you were fairly reasonable to be mad. If you are going to the secret beach, you should have asked if eveyone had sneak oils. If not you might have been better picking a different place. Goblins in the area might have been better, or you could have picked one of the Damselfly camps.

Or you could have waited for the party to gather in front of the tunnel, and then fought your way past the 2 sand bats and giant bat. Most of what you said tells me that the party leader wasn't doing his job in safely getting the party to the exp spot. I can see what you are saying with some of the things, but I don't agree with all of it. I would point out that if the whm got aggro in the tunnel, where is he going to zone to? There are 2 giant bats in front of the Gustav Tunnel zone and the other zones are too far away.

If this was a standard exp camp, I'd be griping along with you, but from my experiance few players go to the hidden beach, it's about as standard of an exp spot as say, the Shrakami Maze or the Korroloka Tunnel. And it's just at that level I would not expect anyone to bring along the meds needed to reach that camp because it is so rarely used.

[Mog]

At times like this, I'm glad I staticed with two other people through the dunes....

[Solymir]

Good stories.

Long before I ever heard of how much trouble people have had with the Dunes, I made the decision to never go there before level 15. Mostly because I would rather ride a Choco from my Home Town (Bastok FTW), than trudge my way through 3-4 different zones on foot. But, also, you can save yourself a lot of frustrating moments just by getting those 5 "extra" levels on your own. When you get into a party in the Dunes with level 14-16 players, they have just a tad more experience, and that can make all the difference in a good Dunes experience and a tolerable one or in some cases, a tear-your-hair-out-scream-at-the-top-of-your-lungs experience.

If you can find an LS mate or a friend to duo with you until level 15 it will make the time go faster as well. Every nation has a zone tailor-made for leveling to 15. Basty has Dangruf Wadi, and the other two have zones similar (their names escape me right now, and no access to any map sites at work) you just need to be careful not to bite off more than you can chew with the beastmen in those zones. Don't forget (especially you noobs) the items and gil you get from mobs while soloing is all yours, and that means you can afford better gear for going to the Dunes.;) Anyways, just my 2 Gil.

[Skylar]

Ive only been playing for about 2 months now. Ive leveled RDM , WHM , WAR , BLU and NIN all in the Dunes. I remember my first time I had no idea what to expect obviously. I had no LS (or friends for that matter) and honestly wasnt even sure why I was there. I just remember someone sending me a /tell ''You want a party in the Dunes''? To which I replied ''Um...Wth is that''? This person (who not at the time) but obviously now I realize was a seasoned FFXI player. He helped me from WestRon all the way to the Dunes through /tell and met up with me at the zone along with the rest of the party. He introduced me to the rest of the party and then pretty much gave me private lessons as we leveled for about 5 hours that day. If it wasnt for his help I would be just another target of this rant here. I learned AN A$$ LOAD leveling in the Dunes. Everyone seems to be putting this place down. Without the Dunes Id probably still be in WestRon killing little bunnies and wondering wth my next level would come. Now every time I go to the Dunes to level a new char I make it a point to invite ''noObs'' and players with no /sub. I also take it upon myself to help them understand the workings of a pt and how the mobs will aggro and how the next time they come they need to be properly prepaired. Its my opinion that ALL higher levels should take the time to do this. WE WERE ALL NEW TO THIS GAME / DUNES AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER. Not one of us hit the Dunes our first time and E-Z'd sh!t.. After all this game was created with the thought in mind of ''PLAYING AS A TEAM/PARTY''. Like a few have mentioned , you basically know what to expect when going to the Dunes. New players getting aggro+death and what not. Yah I want to get a level 75 job too. I want to get the party moving so the exp starts flowing. But what I want more than anything is to play this GAME and have FUN doing it. Not sure how anyone else feels , but when I know I helped someone have an easier life on FFXI by taking maybe a few hours helping them understand a bit more I feel pretty damn good about it. In turn I find myself wanting to play the game more and more.

As for players who know what to expect and still get aggro+death. Heh... Im not perfect either. But maybe think about where youre going and what your part in the party is? Which 1 of them would be to use your experiences to help out and NOT DIE DUE TO BEING CHEAP OR LAZY. (Leave that for the the people its meant for...Us ''noObs''

And just as bad/lazy imo is the high level who just doesnt feel like offering up any advice or saving a ''''noOb'' from an aggro. A WHM who bitches about having to raise? Heh... Ridiculous. And God forbid youre a vet and the leader of the pt and dont meet your incoming fellow pt mates at a zone... ''Booo@you''

[Skylar]

I would also like to add , anyone who is new to the game or going to the Dunes for their first time.. Feel free to leave me a message or send me a /tell and I would be more than happy to help. I am by no means a pro but I do have some experience leveling there.

Char name: Skylar Server: Kujata (Ftw!)

[Takira]

I mean, where's the MGS leet skeelz at? Unless you are a glutton for punishment and like to repeat mistakes over and over again to waste time and anger a bunch of quote/unquote "fellow party members," you should be using your tactical Metal Gear Solid skills of stealth. And if you haven't played MGS, then you have no business playing FF11! lolu

Then I guess I should quit playing now since I have NEVER played MGS.:P

In any case, any game you play online you are gonna run into lazy players but I usually ask when I get party invites where is the party gathering, where is camp etc.

I basically partied 2x in the dunes with my mule (RDM) , got maybe 3 levels between them (12-15) and the rest I solo'd with a 71 RDM in the Maze to avoid the idiocy of Valkrum.

I know how to avoid aggro but sometimes no matter what you do - its unavoidable.

If I am leading the party, like most suggested, I set the gathering point at Selbina or the outpost and the party goes together to camp, safer, faster in the long run because you aren't waiting forever for party members who die, you are there to protect them.

Just my thoughts.

[LilithAngel]

I would also like to add , anyone who is new to the game or going to the Dunes for their first time.. Feel free to leave me a message or send me a /tell and I would be more than happy to help. I am by no means a pro but I do have some experience leveling there.

Char name: Skylar Server: Kujata (Ftw!)

Welcome aboard fellow Kujatan!

Gawd, the Dunes. How many times have I gone through that place? Hmm, let's see...

Warrior
Thief
Dragoon
Blue Mage
Corsair
White Mage
Red Mage
Black Mage
Paladin
Ninja
Bard
Samurai

Yeah, roughly a full 12 times (give or take a few Kor/Maze parties here or there), as quite a few (vastly) different jobs, as you can see. Every single time, I had to make myself doubly aware of two things:

First: I am *not* the top of the food chain in this zone at this time. Yeah, I may be a level 75 Dragoon, yeah, I may be a level 48 Blue Mage or 47 Corsair, but not now, not here. That goblin I walk by countless times without concern in those jobs will now kill me in my current form. Situational Awareness: learn it, love it, live it!

Second: You see that Rank 1~3, no Sub Jobber? Yeah, do you honestly think they know what's up in Valkurm Hell? No, probably not. So could they reasonably be expected to be packing stacks of "cheap" meds that "veteran players" can afford on the fly? Remember, that Adventurer's Coupon everyone started out with is only worth 50 gil. *50*. Five Zero. After that, you were on your own for *everything*, and so too, probably, is that guy/girl. No matter how many times you've gone through the mess, no matter how many times you've seen it happen, if they're "fresh on the sands" (I like that phrase, I shall take it :evil:), cut them some slack!

Besides, save that rage for the slack-jaw dipshits that sport Rank 5+/2~5+ 75 Jobs that can't be bothered to carry a constant supply of powder/oil.

(BTW, and this is just *my* honest opinion, but PLs *ruin* The Dunes. If you honestly can't see why, try keeping your cool when you're experiencing Dunes-level thinking in places such as Boyhada Tree, Garbage Shitadel (upper *and* lower), Cape Terrigan/VoS, Bibiki Bay, Lufaise Meadows, and Mount Caedarva Zayholm Mire. Trust me, you cannot; I don't care who you are, that *will* get to you.)

[Murphie]

I can't even begin to count how many times I've been through the dunes on my various characters. It is what it is though, and I try not to let it get to me (I don't always necessarily succeed, but oh well).

[raidenn]

I actually made more XP going through Korolloka rather than the dunes. Small party set up too.

[Taermus]

I have come to the conclusion that Dunes XP without friends/lsmates is worthless. Solo to 19 and go to Qufim. It just becomes so painfully irritating.

If you're a mage, the dunes can be actually sometimes easier with newbs. They don't have many expectations compared to people who, say, have all their 75 jobs listed in their search comments.

[Murphie]

Heck, solo to 20, even. I have never had a problem (even on mage jobs) soloing that far.

BRD would be a bit of a hassle I suppose, but that was never a real issue for me.

[bri360]

Wow, that sucks. The worst experience ive had was once when a high lvl player was really po'd at the party leader for something he did to her in rl, so the person kept jacking all the pulls and we were forced to disband. Another one was when our whole (good party) broke up cause of the stupidity of the leader. We were near selbina and some of us died including the party leader. Everyone got a raise but the raiser forgot to raise, or diddnt see the leader and logged. So i ask, after 10 min of seeking, where his hp is, ITS IN SELBINA!!?! I say just hp and he absolutely refuses to hp whatsoever because he thinks that he will regain his lost exp if he gets a raise -_-. Understanding that he is a beginner im kinda and say nicely that sry but once you die even if you get a raise you wont regain your exp. He said dude your wrong yes i will go and get me a raise. I said again, ive been playing quite a long time and ive never regained my lost exp from a raise. still he refuses, and now im getting kind of mad because ppl are leaving the party and I had to tell a person not to come since the pt was all disbanding. Now me and a few others are pretty much yelling for him just to hp and the only reason im still in the party is too prove him wrong now and make sure he finds out that you dont regain the exp so thing wont happen to another party. So sure enough a raise comes after 15 min, and sure enough I was right and he was wrong, no exp regained and he was probly embarrassed. It just frustrated me because me and others were telling him that you wont regain the exp for a long time and he just said yes I will get me a raise! lol I kinda feel bad for yelling at him a little now, but its all ok now and at least he learned his lesson so it wont happen to another party. Well thats my rant

[IfritnoItazura]

1. Paragraphs, please. x_x;
2. So i ask, after 10 min of seeking, where his hp is, ITS IN SELBINA!!?! I say just hp and he absolutely refuses to hp whatsoever because he thinks that he will regain his lost exp if he gets a raise -_-. Understanding that he is a beginner im kinda and say nicely that sry but once you die even if you get a raise you wont regain your exp. He said dude your wrong yes i will go and get me a raise. I said again, ive been playing quite a long time and ive never regained my lost exp from a raise.
You were both half wrong. Raise gives back 50% of experience points lost from death (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Raise). :thumbsup: Of course, for the amount of exp lost at those levels, you might as well HP to Selbina rather than waiting for a Raise for who knows how long.

[bri360]

1. Paragraphs, please. x_x;
2.
You were both half wrong. Raise gives back 50% of experience points lost from death (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Raise). :thumbsup: Of course, for the amount of exp lost at those levels, you might as well HP to Selbina rather than waiting for a Raise for who knows how long.

1. lol, kk ill remember to paragraph next time

2. Really wow, I never noticed that before, I thought only raise II and III gave back some exp, since most if not all people are willing to hp and be courteous and come back if they must, well still lol, it doesn't forgive him from his stubborn rudeness and he thought all his exp would regain and I said its not worth it to stay and wait for raise for the amount of exp you loose. If he finds out and I party with him again he can partially rub it into my face XD. O well both right and wrong. Still I cant believe he diddnt just hp lol. I guess the reason he diddnt notice, that no exp was regained is becuase he was hoping to regain it all and level back up to 15, but it diddnt quite make it so he was still 14 lol.

[fallenintoshadows]

It is the dunes after all, what do you guys expect? Yes, people should learn, yes it completely sucks but seriously: it is the dunes.

I try to have as much patience as possible when leveling through the dunes, you know it's not going to be the greatest party you ever had so my advice is to invite a friend or linkshell member to make it fun and laugh when it all goes wrong. Which it most certainly will.

You have to remember newbies are just begining to party when they come here, I can't stand being in a VD party where someone is shouting at a newb for something, they don't know any different! Teach them without being a complete ass about it.

As for aggro, everyone learns here how to avoid aggro or quickly zone it. Bats can be a pain because they are generaly unavoidable unless someone has come through and cleared them. Not everyone can afford silent oils, newbies and oldbies: It is quicker to run to the tunnel and kill the bats as a team than complain to a member for not having oils, watch their hp fall to 0, fuss about getting a raise, then wait for them to unweaken.. etc etc. It's easier to just go and help them, advise them next time if they can afford it oils would be helpful instead of screaming through /p chat and waiting for a raise.

I can't stand when people complain about members not having oils or maps or knowing where the camp is, they won't find out unless you tell them, and in a nice way! Just help them out and give them advice. It isn't hard and it doesn't take long to show them the way or go kill something for them. Surely the priority is to get everyone at the camp, alive, asap and start exping.

[DakAttack]

I was Rocky in the dunes, and I always had that massive train of fans following me as I ran through the area. Fan... vicious fiends... whatever. The point is I trained them on purpose and I still didn't bite it getting to camp. There's nothing more awesome than saying 'I've got our first pull!' and show up with a precession of goblins.

[Humar]

Ive been through the Dunes three times. The first time was as THF the second as Warrior and the Third as Ranger. And Absolutly none of the times did i ever come up with the problems i always hear about. I have almost always been the leader in these parties and had no problems. Ive never brought oils/invis with me nor have i been with someone that did. Mind you once or twice we had a pl but still.

Avoiding agro is not as hard as people take it for. I rarely have problems with it.

Just be patient...the mobs do move everynow and then. You just have to wait till the gobs face another direction or go far enough away. As far as the bats go yeah sure you cant really avoid them in the tunnels but you could ask a nearby party for help or instead of trying to brave it on your own with a party waiting...the party doesnt always have to be the ones to volunteer themselves to help you...ask them for help and im sure they wouldnt mind. Dont expect them to help you all the time without asking.

But yeah i agree with it is still far more easy to just have the party meet in a safe place and get to camp all together.

[Kuro]

I've been through 3 times on war allone, 3 times on monk, 2 times on samurai, once of thief, ocne on corsair, once on rng

*thinks* thats all i can remember for now.

[Silent Howler]

As for aggro, everyone learns here how to avoid aggro or quickly zone it. Bats can be a pain because they are generaly unavoidable unless someone has come through and cleared them. Not everyone can afford silent oils, newbies and oldbies: It is quicker to run to the tunnel and kill the bats as a team than complain to a member for not having oils, watch their hp fall to 0, fuss about getting a raise, then wait for them to unweaken.. etc etc. It's easier to just go and help them, advise them next time if they can afford it oils would be helpful instead of screaming through /p chat and waiting for a raise.
With the last couple times I had to get through the tunnels to meet up with a party, I actually made a shout. Sand Bats <pos> {Please assist} {Thank you} ^^

But with the second time, I didn't get help as quickly and decided to see if I could make it on my own. I was SMN at the time, so I used Carby to handle the first group of bats while I ran past the rest. I made it to the zone, but then I get a message, "You could not change areas at this time." Followed quickly by death from the bats. wtf? I have zoned to get away from monsters plenty of times. Why couldn't I this time? And earlier that day, I had noticed the same thing happened to another guy who tried to zone from the bats, being killed in the same fashion as me. I can't think of a good explanation for why that happened except that they may have hit me just as I was zoning, being enough to finish me off and prevent me from zoning.

[slipperhat]

...at least you guys dont get roleplayers... this dick refused to zone aggro because zarak the serpent king will not run from any fight! .. and the pt leader was to soft to kick him ... and it gets funnier when they are higher lvl then you '' hey prick i m higher than you so shut up and listen to me '' him 16war/8mnk me 15nin/7war .. noobs develope an ego as they get older .. the only alt to soloing is JP pts ..

[raidenn]

...at least you guys dont get roleplayers... this dick refused to zone aggro because zarak the serpent king will not run from any fight! .. and the pt leader was to soft to kick him ... and it gets funnier when they are higher lvl then you '' hey prick i m higher than you so shut up and listen to me '' him 16war/8mnk me 15nin/7war .. noobs develope an ego as they get older .. the only alt to soloing is JP pts ..

You should have gotten a screenshot, thats good comedy :D

[Aksannyi]

Well I've leveled 9/18 of my jobs through the Dunes completely, and all of them have been there at least once. When I come upon the bats, if I didn't happen to bring stealth, I just /shout Sand Bats {Help me out!} <pos> {Thank you.} and usually they're dead in minutes.

Do I expect newbs to know that they need silent oils? No. I think S/E was incredibly cruel to place those bats where they are, knowing that 9/10 newbs weren't going to know that the bats would aggro them.

As for gob aggro, everyone should know by Dunes level that gobs aggro.

And if you're a higher level (30+ is even "high" enough here) you should know what aggros and what doesn't and plan accordingly. Though the first time you go to the dunes, if your nation has it, you should do the OP right off, so the bats never become an issue.

[Sevv]

Well I've leveled 9/18 of my jobs through the Dunes completely, and all of them have been there at least once. When I come upon the bats, if I didn't happen to bring stealth, I just /shout Sand Bats {Help me out!} <pos> {Thank you.} and usually they're dead in minutes.
Do I expect newbs to know that they need silent oils? No. I think S/E was incredibly cruel to place those bats where they are, knowing that 9/10 newbs weren't going to know that the bats would aggro them.
As for gob aggro, everyone should know by Dunes level that gobs aggro.
And if you're a higher level (30+ is even "high" enough here) you should know what aggros and what doesn't and plan accordingly. Though the first time you go to the dunes, if your nation has it, you should do the OP right off, so the bats never become an issue.

16/18 and you know what s-e sucks, The day I finished the pre toau jobs, they announced Blu, now I was going to level the other 2 thru tonight and they announced dancer. Damn you s-e.

[Aksannyi]

Yeah I was going to take all of my jobs to 20 to forever end my time in the Dunes, but then they are announcing new jobs so I didn't even bother, I'll still have to buy new gear all over again. >.<

[macphile]

This sounds a mite familiar. I partied for the first time in VD a little while back (only my third party ever, which is just sad but is entirely on me). I was in La Theine when I was invited and had to cross pretty much all of it to get there, and of course, I'm being told to hurry up as I go, but it's not like I was right at the VD exit when I got invited. I get to VD and was standing there all alone, eyeing a goblin, wondering how I was going to find the party. I did eventually, although it took me forever. I didn't use Sneak to do it, I just went for it. I guess I was lucky that no mobs took notice of me. Things were going well, party-wise, except for our warrior dying, and then we got this new guy, and...it was pretty funny, really. We died, but it was funny. The new guy had his ideas, and the captain had his, and when the captain ran off to our old camp site, a few of us followed, and we never made it (*sniff*).

[kaitokun]

After reading all of that i dont really know how im gonna feel about going to the dunes for the first time. I was aware about gobbies going aggro on site and dont really have a problem avoiding them but i had no idea about the bats.

[Silent Howler]

Well as long as you go to the dunes from the south you shouldn't have to worry about the bats. By the time the party moves to fight crabs you'll all be able to handle them. But if you are coming from the north then you have two choices basically: bring Silent Oils or shout for assistance. But whatever you do don't try to run or "sneak" through because that rarely ever works out.

[Sabaron]

Necroing a rant thread eh? Oh well...at least your response is pertinent.

For my money (read time), I generally skip the dunes. If you add up the time you spend walking around finding your party, waiting for people who have to {Bio}, force D/C, die and hp to South San d'Oria, etc. you'll find that you would have been better off soloing. Check out Buburimu Peninsula and Konschtat Highlands.

[Lunaped]

OP is being a whiny pussy. Seriously.

You don't give a rats ass if mages don't have all their spells? You don't care if a person is *at least* up to date on some of their gear that will make them more efficient?

Seriously, if you hate leveling in dunes with a party then learn how to solo. Instead of bitching and ranting about it get over it and stop being an arrogant prick. There ARE places in home town areas that are made for party's between 12-16.

Sandy, there's ghelsba outpost, Basty, there's Korrokola tunnels and so forth. You can avoid the Dunes if you honestly wanted to. And hell, getting to those home points isn't that hard.



In the end, I hope you start playing with mages that aren't up to date with their spells. Then we'll see another thread of you ranting and bitching about how mages can't keep up with their spells.

[eticket109]

OP is being a whiny pussy. Seriously.


The OP was over a year ago.

[Lunaped]

The OP was over a year ago.


And yet the thread still exists. :rolleyes:

Forums in for pruning maybe?:thumbsup:

[Sabaron]

1. lol, kk ill remember to paragraph next time

2. Really wow, I never noticed that before, I thought only raise II and III gave back some exp, since most if not all people are willing to hp and be courteous and come back if they must, well still lol, it doesn't forgive him from his stubborn rudeness and he thought all his exp would regain and I said its not worth it to stay and wait for raise for the amount of exp you loose. If he finds out and I party with him again he can partially rub it into my face XD. O well both right and wrong. Still I cant believe he diddnt just hp lol. I guess the reason he diddnt notice, that no exp was regained is becuase he was hoping to regain it all and level back up to 15, but it diddnt quite make it so he was still 14 lol.

Once you said it was over a year old I had to know... The reason it's still alive and kicking is because this isn't the first time it has been necroed... This is the second. This thread is on it's third life now--The post above in August of 2007 was the first raising. By now, there's nothing left of the original thread but dusty old bones. Perhaps a moderator should get out the trusty buryin' shovel and send this unholy abomination back to the depths which spawned it...

Oh, and in general forum etiquette terms--it is often better to leave old dead threads alone and make a new thread. By necroposting very old and very long threads like this one, you will cause others to have to reread the entire thread just to figure out what you're talking about. Also, remember that MMORPGs change a lot over time. When this thread was posted, Valkurm Dunes didn't have any Goblin Bounty Hunters which is quite relevant considering they can be annoying when trying to XP on a beach. Instead of necroing, read your old thread and then post a new thread with your questions and ideas--you can make your own executive summary of the thread (or even link it in) as a reference if you feel the need.

[eticket109]

And yet the thread still exists. :rolleyes:
Forums in for pruning maybe?:thumbsup:

The thread still exists because there are more recent, pertinent replies. I was pointing out that responding to those as opposed to flaming the OP was a bit more constructive.

I find it ironic that you talk about the poster being whiny when you seem to have a habit of bitching about how this place is run.

[Aksannyi]

And yet the thread still exists. :rolleyes:

Forums in for pruning maybe?:thumbsup:
They don't delete old threads on any forum I go to, why should this one be any different? They might see fit to LOCK old threads so people like you don't bump them and use them as your own personal vehicle for bitching, but they apparently haven't gotten around to it.

I have noticed that this isn't the only ancient thread you've bumped to complain about something the OP said. Perhaps you need to do something a bit more constructive with your time.

[Icemage]

They don't delete old threads on any forum I go to, why should this one be any different? They might see fit to LOCK old threads so people like you don't bump them and use them as your own personal vehicle for bitching, but they apparently haven't gotten around to it.

I have noticed that this isn't the only ancient thread you've bumped to complain about something the OP said. Perhaps you need to do something a bit more constructive with your time.
This forum auto-locks any thread older than 6 months. It didn't used to - I bugged the admins and begged on hands and knees to make it happen so we wouldn't get the sort of 1-year old severe necroposting that used to happen with regularity.

This particular thread is still relavent - people still go to Valkurm, and it still sucks just as much as ever. Hence why it has never been locked.


Icemage

[Lunaped]

They don't delete old threads on any forum I go to, why should this one be any different? They might see fit to LOCK old threads so people like you don't bump them and use them as your own personal vehicle for bitching, but they apparently haven't gotten around to it.

I have noticed that this isn't the only ancient thread you've bumped to complain about something the OP said. Perhaps you need to do something a bit more constructive with your time.

Of course they don't delete old threads. It's something called Archiving.

Why lock old threads when you can simply move them into the Archiving section of the forum where no one will be able to reply anyway? And all you can do is read it? You're the brain of knowledge right? So, use your brains.

And what if I'm bumping old threads? If you don't want old threads to be bumped then do something about it. You have the little nifty color green on your title, must mean you're MOD of some sort, right? Use the powers that have been given to you. *politely bows to the all knowing brain*

And my own personal vehicle for bitching? Darling, if I wanted to bitch about what a horrible party I was in, I would of made my own thread. I'm not one to hi-jack. Oh, btw, I don't see you bitching at others for bumping the thread more then once even if it was made a year ago.

Huh, must be some biased opinion here. Great mod you are! /clap

[Coinspinner]

I've never had any problems in Valkurm that I didn't also have in it's substitutes. At that level every job's survivability is poor, and WHM is the only healer with a heal stronger than 30 HP before 14/15/17. Wherever you go, people are still gonna be idiots about aggro, bringing a ranged weapon, and waiting for a Raise because they didn't set homepoint nearby.

I've never gotten faster exp in those other places than in Valkurm. I have had a far easier time getting a party together for Valkurm than Buburimi, Shakrami, or Korroloka or wherever. Unless you arrange it well in advance it's futile to even try, at which point they're not going to be much better exp than Valkurm and get crowded much more easily.

[Lunaped]

I've never had any problems in Valkurm that I didn't also have in it's substitutes. At that level every job's survivability is poor, and WHM is the only healer with a heal stronger than 30 HP before 14/15/17. Wherever you go, people are still gonna be idiots about aggro, bringing a ranged weapon, and waiting for a Raise because they didn't set homepoint nearby.

I've never gotten faster exp in those other places than in Valkurm. I have had a far easier time getting a party together for Valkurm than Buburimi, Shakrami, or Korroloka or wherever. Unless you arrange it well in advance it's futile to even try, at which point they're not going to be much better exp than Valkurm and get crowded much more easily.


I've never had an experience in Korrokolka tunnel that was majorly crowded and the PTs that I would bring there were not planned days ahead. I've had 3-4k an hour pt's and we leveled pretty fast.

Then again, some people rather play in the Dunes and it's understandable

[eticket109]

And what if I'm bumping old threads? If you don't want old threads to be bumped then do something about it. You have the little nifty color green on your title, must mean you're MOD of some sort, right? Use the powers that have been given to you. *politely bows to the all knowing brain*


Technically you didn't bump an old thread as the last few replies before yours were rather recent. You just didn't have the reading comprehension to realize the specific post you were speaking about was more than a year old.

And no, she's not a mod. Mods have names in Red or Orange. The non-mod 'titles' under a user's name have more to do with post count than anything else. If they are a mod though, it will say Super-Moderator, Moderator or Administrator there. Other then being a jerk overall, I don't really see you doing anything a mod would act on. Regardless, you'll get a lot farther with people if you wait til you're here a while before you start telling everyone else how much better you could run the site.

[Aksannyi]

Of course they don't delete old threads. It's something called Archiving.

Why lock old threads when you can simply move them into the Archiving section of the forum where no one will be able to reply anyway? And all you can do is read it? You're the brain of knowledge right? So, use your brains.

And what if I'm bumping old threads? If you don't want old threads to be bumped then do something about it. You have the little nifty color green on your title, must mean you're MOD of some sort, right? Use the powers that have been given to you. *politely bows to the all knowing brain*

And my own personal vehicle for bitching? Darling, if I wanted to bitch about what a horrible party I was in, I would of made my own thread. I'm not one to hi-jack. Oh, btw, I don't see you bitching at others for bumping the thread more then once even if it was made a year ago.

Huh, must be some biased opinion here. Great mod you are! /clap
LOL!

I'm not a mod. :rofl:

[TheGrandMom]

Ok so let's get back on the old moldy and crusty topic. In a nutshell, some people don't like necro'd threads (personally neither do I) so they prefer people make new ones so that they don't have to read all the posts for 20 mins. (Ok this thread's point is right in the topic but thats not always the case.) Then the other side says, I necro because at some boards people complain about starting new threads when there is already one covering the subject. Hence they actually DO use the search feature which nearly makes one faint at the thought since a significant amount of people do not. How I would handle it is to lock the thread, message the necro poster and request they start a new thread or point them to a more recent thread to post in, and put up with any fallout. But since there is a difference in opinion about how this is handled, I will not. Both sides have valid issues so let's leave it at that and get back on topic....if we must... :P

/em hobbles quickly from the stinky necro thread, waving her cane wildly!