Whm 50+

[Spiritbear]

Sorry if this is already posted somewhere. I did a search and couldn't find what I was looking for.

Currently I'm a 47whm and I will be 50 by the end of Thurs. I am trying to figure out what I should be lvling for a sub job so I can do some soloing as my whm. I'm tired of getting the same crap statements that whms shouldn't solo or fight for that matter. I usually try to play frontline whm when I pt, but would like to know what job would be better for a sub to do that. I have been told that when I get to endgame whm/nin is good, but I'm not sure. I have also been trying to figure out where I can farm and Astral or Ether ring at?? Any help would be appreciated. I will post a completle list of equipment I currently have soon.

This is what I currently have that I can remember:
Blessed Hammer
Fish Scale Shield
Magna body, hands, legs and feet.
Enhancing Earring
Mana Ring
Friar's Rope
Holy Phial
White Cape


I'll post the rest tomorrow.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

[Caspian]

Both astral and ether rings are BCNM drops.
/NIN might work alright, just dual wield hammers. Later on darksteel mauls are actually fairly useful in doing damage solo.
As far as meleeing while pt'ing, never ever ever do it if the mob has a damaging aoe tp move. The damage you take compared to the tp you're giving the mob just isnt justifiable.
During pt's stick with either blm or smn as a sub. (/blm sleeps can be useful)

[Omniblast]

I have played up to a level 75 whm.

You are a back line job.

You "should not" solo. The amount of effort for you to solo enough xp is laughable. You are better off in a party obtaining exp.

If you want to solo, go level BST.

With that said, you could quite possibly level bst as a sub. I've seen this in higher levels.

All your doing if you play front line whm is = death or tp gain for the mob. Stop doing that. Seriously stop. Your not helping the tank. Your not helping doing your main job which is curing, protection, and enhancing.

The only thing you should be doing in front line is bar<element>. That is all.
Haste, Regen all can be cast in the back line. Occasional Flash when the Ninja gets spanked. Oh and if you level your smn high enough, you can do Aerial Armor every so often, but that 100 mp could be better off spent curing.

[Icemage]

All your doing if you play front line whm is = death or tp gain for the mob. Stop doing that. Seriously stop. Your not helping the tank. Your not helping doing your main job which is curing, protection, and enhancing.
Echo that. 75 WHM here as well, and I couldn't agree more.

WHM melee skills are sub-par in XP parties. On top of that, if you're doing your job right, you won't have time to hit things. Either you're casting, or your resting for MP so that you can continue casting.

If this isn't something you enjoy, you are playing entirely the wrong job -> Go play Blue Mage instead.


Icemage

[Spiritbear]

I play frontline when I am able to. If I am sitting in the back and only having to cast a cure ever few min then why shouldn't I be up in the front lvling my club skills. I know what my job is suppose to do and I can do it from the front while I bash in the mobs head with my hammer, there have been several instances where I have done more dmg then the rest of the pt, but those are usually when we have a PL with us. I don't understand why everyone on this game has to be and do what everyone else wants them to do. If I am in a pt I know when I need to pull back and just cure and buff, but I'm also competent enough to know when I can be up there with the rest of the pt using my beating stick on the mobs. This post was not to have everyone tell me that I can't be a frontline, it was to find out what everyone felt would be BETTER in thier OPINION for a whm to sub and use for equipment. So lets try to stick to the questions at hand and not try to dissuade someone from enjoying the game the way they want, and I would also like to challenge everyone that reads this post and plays the game to do the same. The game is for people to have fun, not so they have to bend and conform to the desires of the masses.

[Icemage]

Well, no one else is paying your fees, do as you please.

You'll find, however, that as you get to the 50+ range, whether you like it or not, your melee accuracy will be horrible even with capped Club skill. In addition, many things you fight beyond that point like to do area attacks. There are certainly a few exceptions (Colibri come to mind), but by and large there isn't a lot that is safe to melee past level 50.

As for why you wouldn't want to be beating stuff in with your weapon in those cases - well, I suppose you can. Talking about outdamaging other party members when you have a PL available doesn't support your case - you're generally not going to have a PL at 50+, which means you're going to have to spend time actually resting and casting magic.

As far as melee damage subs go, I suppose you could use /THF for Sneak Attack + Judgment or some such. I still don't see any point to it though - you're going to miss a LOT, you're not going to hit for much damage, and you're potentially putting your party in danger with your refusal to spend time regaining MP, but if you're OK with the fact that people are going to look down on you because you'd rather have fun at the expense of party efficiency (and hurt their XP gains in the process), then knock yourself out.


Icemage

[Mog]

I play frontline when I am able to. If I am sitting in the back and only having to cast a cure ever few min then why shouldn't I be up in the front lvling my club skills. I know what my job is suppose to do and I can do it from the front while I bash in the mobs head with my hammer, there have been several instances where I have done more dmg then the rest of the pt, but those are usually when we have a PL with us. I don't understand why everyone on this game has to be and do what everyone else wants them to do. If I am in a pt I know when I need to pull back and just cure and buff, but I'm also competent enough to know when I can be up there with the rest of the pt using my beating stick on the mobs. This post was not to have everyone tell me that I can't be a frontline, it was to find out what everyone felt would be BETTER in thier OPINION for a whm to sub and use for equipment. So lets try to stick to the questions at hand and not try to dissuade someone from enjoying the game the way they want, and I would also like to challenge everyone that reads this post and plays the game to do the same. The game is for people to have fun, not so they have to bend and conform to the desires of the masses.

You're partying with real people. People will expect you to be a back-line job and perform it correctly, not melee on the front-lines. I can understand if there's a powerleveler in a low-level party. If so, by all means, skill up clubs, nuke the mob, do whatever.

....but more than often, when you get into the higher levels, you're not going to have a power-leveler in your party. Since you're elvaan, you're going to need to conserve your mp, and buy more mp-gear to heal with. You're not going to have time to melee the mob, cure party members, heal, and repeat the whole process again.

I'll repeat what everyone else is saying. If you're meleeing in an xp party, you're

1) giving the mob extra tp
2) going to get hit by AoE attack that would be avoided if you stayed in the back-lines. This means more mp consumtion on yourself
3) probably subbing ninja. In which case, you won't have jack shit mp to heal with. If you were subbing blm or smn, they don't even add any benefits to melee....

You say to have fun, but if having fun means pissing off other party members (real life people, mind you) so you can skill up on your whm, then FFXI is not for you. Feel free to use outlandish combinations in a single player game, not in a game where you have to interact with real people.

[eva00r]

but those are usually when we have a PL with us.

GG.

After lv 60 the mechanism in the game is COMPLETELY different from what you expected, front line jobs and back line jobs' melee capabilities gap will be extremely high. You will kill the mob every 1 minute, and you have to spend 100ish mp per minute also. If you keep meleeing, you will never get the mp pool enough to protect the other in the party at all.

Anyway the quote is LOL.

[Spiritbear]

I have yet to piss off anyone while doing that and you guys are missing the key statements in my post. I melee when I know I can and don't have to worry about people loosing exp. I have yet to be in a pt and have a mem die while I was main healer unless the pt gets a couple of links and there is not blm or rdm to cast sleep. I pt the way I know I can and the way I know I will be the best help to my pt. If everyone else isn't able to do the job the way I do then that's fine, I'm not asking them to. But I can guarantee any pt that I'm in I will get a whm that will do the best job he can and will not stop till I absolutly have to. Here is my favorite movie quote, "Everyone Fights, Noone quits". That is how I play the game and that is why people invite me back into pts time and again. I'm sure you guys don't play your jobs the exact way everyone wants you to. I am going to play this game and try all the variations that I think would work and see how it goes. Who knows maybe I'll find a combo that that works better for me but everyone else thinks is stupid, and shouldn't be used. And get everyone that sees to think outside the box and they will do the same.

[Jei]

Well if you really insist. You can macro in your clubs and ACC and swing away I guess.

The thing tho, it's not much about you slowing down your party or not.... But it's about a meleeing WHM. That fact alone can really give other members negative impression about you. Whether you can keep up with the healing or not is not even being considered in this case.

[Nazo]

I sometimes play as whm/nin for ls events, skill-ups etc and while it's certainly good fun to whack away with my clubs and tank the mobs a bit with utsusemi and stone-skin, I'm also aware that I'm not being as effective a whm as I would be if I were on the back-line. In these kind of situations I don't need to be so it's not an issue but there is no way I'd try it against XP mobs or anything approaching a serious fight and I don't think anyone would stand for it if I did.

The reason people tend to think of jobs in set roles is because that it is how the game was designed. It's a team game and everyone has a role in that team which they are picked for. Just because people aren't dying in your parties that doesn't mean you are doing an efficient job.

You might be able to get away with it at lower levels when whms are in short supply and parties are still in the mindset that they need one, but pretty soon whms start becoming a less of a necessity and more of a luxury, and a meleeing whm is likely to find themselves out in the cold in favour of someone doing something actually useful to the party.

[Kirsteena]

Also, losing out on that 10% cure potency from not using light staff could very well hurt you.

Skill up parties are for keeping your club capped tbh.

[Ameroth]

I think it's funny how you're asking for high level WHM's advice, but then turning around and telling them off. I'm not going to bark at you for trying to be a "front-job whm," whatever, do what you want. I just know that if I was in a pt with a WHM doing that, that'd be the last time I was in a pt with that WHM. Seriously, if you want to be an upfront healer, level BLU and sub /WHM or something.

In any case, in terms of soloin', I can't imagine it being very productive 50+, but i suppose you could kill some EP- mobs if you subbed nin and casted stoneskin when needed. You could probably make about 500-700exp every hour or so...

[SharMarali]

Speaking as someone who DID solo on WHM a fair amount in the mid-to-upper 50's... Yeah, exp is incredibly dismal. It's really not even funny how awful it is.

I only took WHM to 60, and honestly, I didn't intend to take it THAT far when I started out. But once I got it to 38, I wanted 42 for the last teleport spell. Once I got it there, I wanted some other level, I don't remember why. Once I got that, I wanted 56 so I could have raise II. And once I got it there, my CoP static needed me to raise it to 60 for the airship fight.

Occassionally, a PT would end with me only needing like 2k exp to level up. And when I'd try to find a new PT, I'd get shot down because I was so close to leveling. So I'd just go solo. I went WHM/NIN and dual wielded hammers. I used attack food and a couple of pieces of atk/acc gear. You can stay alive a long, long time as a WHM/NIN, but it takes forever to kill anything. I think I managed about 1200 exp/hour a couple of times. Mostly, I tried to stick to skeletons, since they're fairly weak to hammering away.

As for the side topic... I don't have a lot to add, really, except to say that I don't understand why someone would pick what is UNARGUABLY the single most DEFENSIVE job in the game if they want to deal damage. There are SO many jobs where that's what you're *supposed* to do. As a WHM, you're ALWAYS the main healer. It would be stupid to invite a RDM or a SMN to play main heal if you have a WHM. This means that if the tank's HP drop, you're responsible for making sure they don't die. If the thing you're fighting uses an AoE stun, you're screwed. If it uses a heavy AoE attack and then YOUR hp are low, and you proceed to pull hate casting a cureIV, you die and the whole PT is screwed. If you somehow pull hate during the fight (hey, you claim you're outdamaging your PT, you must be pulling hate, right?) and it attacks you while you're casting, interrupting your spell... Screwed. Ice spikes? Now you're paralyzed. Screwed. AoE silence? Wasting echo drops, unless you don't have them, in which case, screwed. Single-target heavy-damage attack while you have hate? You got it. Screwed.

There are very, very, very few types of monsters that a WHM can frontline on WITHOUT leaving their PT vulnerable. By refusing to actually do your job, which is to stand back, avoid taking damage, heal, enhance, and regain MP whenever possible, you might be having fun. But I guarantee, the other 5 people in your PT are NOT.

[Kirsteena]

Thinking back, I remember when I was levelling up my rdm in the mid 60s in Bibiki Bay. There was a whm there who insisted on meleeing. Apparently I was one of the first to ever manage to get him to solely be back line. Other than words such as "sit" and "stay" I a) refused to refresh him unless he got back where he should be b) refused to cure him if he took damage (lolbibikibaybombtoss at the start of a fight), and refused to silena him if a Catoblepas silenced him. After he died a couple of times, he did take his place backline...

[Mog]

Rather than piss off future party members, play your job right Spirit. We're only saving you the grief.

(or learn the hard way. Up to you)

[Celeal]

I am not a whm, but as a tank, who is the receiving end of the mobs attack, I can tell you that /nin is not necesary safe at the frontline. There are a lot of attacks or special effects that ignore or wipe shadows. At level 60 a melee DD may take a few hits before dying, but I have seen mages drop dead in few seconds when they pull hate: My level 60 SAM has a little over 1000 HP, usually one hit from the mob takes over 200 damage. I have seen BLM HP goes red after one hit from mob...

I definitely hate to tank for healer that need to constantly remind for Erase, Haste, Paralyna, silena... dealing the mob alone is stressful enough, on top of that have to deal with DD. If the backline job is doing oddball stuff, the tank is facing enemy from outside and from within at the same time V_V

If you want deal some damage with filling the healer role in the party, why not try SMN/WHM? With the recent blood pact timer update, I have seen some interesting playstyle from SMN. Sending the Avatar to frontline is much safer in my opinion.

[Ameroth]

I know just what you're saying Celeal. Being a PLD main I know all about how much Exp mobs hurt, and how much dmg they will do. Example: in Quicksand, fighting those spiders, one sickle slash would do anywhere from 200-500+ dmg to me, and I'm a PLD with +18 VIT and the highest defense my gil can afford. Belive you me, as a whm that pulls hate and happens to be unlucky enough to get hit by that attack, you're done for; and chance are, you're PT is too unless you've got some mad backup healing available.

[Kasandaro]

Question. How are you hitting anything? If Club is maxed, it'll be about 140. While I haven't crossed the break-point post-45, I know as a Hume BLU with sword (with a barely higher skill rating), hitting things requires some attention to boosting ACC if I want to hit more than once a fight. And I'm not seeing a whole lot of +ACC in your build.

If I were going to tweak this build, off the top of my head:
Food > Rice Dumplings, Sea Bass Croute - all have hMP and +ACC - Dumplings have the highest +ATT, Croute gives +Dex and +MND. Porcupine Pie gives good +STR, which, as Elvaan, you don't really need as much.

Blessed Hammer > Time Hammer (for now - see lv51)
Fish Scale Shield > Just about anything. If you're meleeing, there's no excuse to have a lv14 shield.

Magna body, hands, legs and feet. > Meh. Hands and legs, sure. The MP/Dex off the body isn't going to kill you if you're lacking it, and even a Seer's Tunic to help hMP will help. The only thing the boots have is the MP, which by this point, you'd need more +hMP (or +ACC).

Enhancing Earring > MP, sure. HP? As a Elvaan? Problem is, at this point, there's not much better for casting. For melee? Farming an Optical Earring will help.
Mana Ring > For casting alternate MP and MND rings; melee, you'll need +ACC, and thisis the easiest place to get it.

Friar's Rope > Powerful Belt for casting (Rev. Sash if you're rich), Tilt Belt for Melee (Life Belt at 50)
Holy Phial > Promise Badge, next level
White Cape > Red Cape for one less item in inventory, or Aurora Mantle, or Jaguar Mantle, maybe.

At level 51, people will expect you to have the elemental staves and look at you strangely if you don't use them when casting. And let it be said it is <i>possible</i> to melee with a staff in a party - our club skill is ~equal to a PUP's H2H skill. But. You will need a great amount of +ACC (or a phenomenal amount of +DEX since WHM native Dex is low and Elvaan Dex is lower) to do this.

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done when appropriate. It is going to take a whole lot of equipping and equip-swapping to be effective, though. Go read the BLU and PUP fora for some ideas of where to +ACC.

[Spiritbear]

Rather than piss off future party members, play your job right Spirit. We're only saving you the grief.

(or learn the hard way. Up to you)


Once again I do my job and I play back when I need to, BUT if I'm not needed to buff and heal even a 1/4 of the normal time, I will go frontline. I'm not turning away any advice that has been given, I'm just trying to play to have fun and if that means for me to have fun meleeing with my whm I have to Solo so I don't have to worry about a pt having issues with it then that is whatI will do. I don't care about the amount of exp I get off the mobs and how long it takes to kill them. I want to enjoy myself while playing whm. I have been on the game seeking pts for several hours before with no way of gaining exp with out a pt and was wanting to find a way to get something for my time other then Gil. I assure you my lack of pt invites is not do to me meleeing while in a pt. I have no issue playing back when my pt needs it, but why not have a way for myself to gain exp while waiting to a pt invite.

I understand my part in a pt is to play back and cure, buff and debuff. I play that role in many pts, as I said previously (something that everyone seemed to overlook). I also have no issues with the people in the pt when I do melee, I ask the pt to see if it is ok then I will gauge each fight to see if I am able to frontline with out any problems, If I feel there is an issue with me doing so I will not do it. Why does everyone seem to feel that becuase a whm want's to melee they are either incompetent or need to switch jobs. I like whm, I like being healer in the pts. But I also know that I will not be whm as often once I reach 75, so why not have my club and staff skills lvled for other jobs, when I have a chance to do so.

Once again I PLAY BACKLINE MAIN HEALER!!!! <------DID EVERYONE GET SEE THAT????

Here is a full list of gear I currently have:
Blessed Hammer
Electrum Hairpin
Holy Phial
Enhancing Earring
Valor Earring
Electrum Ring
Mana Ring
Magna Jerkin
Magna Gauntlets
White Cape
Friar's Rope
Magna Chausses
Magna Ledelsens


What would be better gear and where can I quest or what do I have to kill (Specifically) to attain that gear.


Thank You for all your advice, but remember I PLAY BACKLINE MAIN HEALER MORE THEN FRONTLINE WHM, so can we please try to answer the question about gear for 50+ whm. I really need to work getting that gear and being that I don't have any gil to get it I will have to quest or kill to get it.

[Ameroth]

Why does everyone seem to feel that becuase a whm want's to melee they are either incompetent or need to switch jobs.

lol . Because you're a WHM trying to melee.

[Celeal]

Start from level 50, the level gap of the mob jumps up. The level gap between player and mob that is normally /check IT at level 40s, would becomes VT post level 50s. From level 60, there is another jump with the level gap again.

The current gear that you listed in above is not going to do meaningful damage on Tough mob level 51+. Those gear does not provide enough acc+, attack+ and str+ to melee VT or IT mob in experience parties at all, regardless of sushi or meat that you may use.

[Icemage]

Instead of focusing on getting melee gear, bear in mind that you will have a LOT on your plate come level 50+. You have to deal with:

Limit Break 1, Limit Break 2, Artifact Armor - since this is your first job to 50, all of these are going to eat up a lot of your time and energy.

In addition, you'll need at least 2 elemental staves (Light Staff, Dark Staff, and maybe Earth Staff, Wind Staff and Ice Staff if you're doing enfeebling too) at level 51.

I appreciate that you want to enjoy yourself in parties, and that's fine as far as that goes. But you need other people to help you with Limit 1, Limit 2, and especially artifact armor - and if you're up in the front line playing Whiffmaster 5000, it's going to be hard to avoid making a negative impression on the very people you're going to need help from.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't melee. Just be aware that regardless of how you yourself feel about it, there are a lot of people out there who could potentially assist you who will write you off and refuse assistance when they see you meleeing. At your current stage in the game, alienating other players (intentionally or not) may make what ought to be relatively reasonable quests into nearly insurmountable obstacles.


Icemage

[Ameroth]

you're up in the front line playing Whiffmaster 5000

:rofl:

That made me laugh.

[Spiritbear]

Thank you for advice!!! And Once again I PLAY BACKLINE MAIN HEALER IN A PT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I only play frontline in a pt when I have the pts go ahead. Where can I get a Light and Dark Staff, besides the AH?

[Icemage]

Where can I get a Light and Dark Staff, besides the AH?
AH only. They are crafted items (and getting one crafted for you is much, MUCH more expensive than buying one, since they are sold at a loss by high level Woodworkers).


Icemage

[Srxjo]

I PLAY BACKLINE MAIN HEALER IN A PT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we get the message people are saying you can ruin your rep meleeing a whm is all

[Jei]

I only took WHM to 60, and honestly, I didn't intend to take it THAT far when I started out. But once I got it to 38, I wanted 42 for the last teleport spell. Once I got it there, I wanted some other level, I don't remember why. Once I got that, I wanted 56 so I could have raise II. And once I got it there, my CoP static needed me to raise it to 60 for the airship fight.

Your avatar is so cute I thought you'd enjoy Whm :cry:

spiritbreaker. That's not so productive yelling at us after asking us for advice heh. If you think you're fine the way you are then why ask us question in the first place and object everything we're trying to tell you?

Peace man. Play the way you want. We can leave you alone if that's what you want.

[Srxjo]

o by the way i am not a whm but i am a lvl 70 rdm and whm nd rdm job is silimar at that lvl

[Mhurron]

Once again I do my job and I play back when I need to You always need to, no amount of big coloured text is going to change that.

[Spiritbear]

Your avatar is so cute I thought you'd enjoy Whm :cry:

spiritbreaker. That's not so productive yelling at us after asking us for advice heh. If you think you're fine the way you are then why ask us question in the first place and object everything we're trying to tell you?

Peace man. Play the way you want. We can leave you alone if that's what you want.

The name is Spiritbear and I was yelling cause everyone was saying the same thing. Even though I had already said that I play backline main healer. I was becoming counter productive. I shouldn't have to justify myself to get a simple, "/nin would be a good choice for you to melee with." And I still haven't gotten a complete answer to all of the question I have asked. I try my best to help everyone with any knowledge I have about the game (while ingame, since most of the topics I have knowledge of are covered in here). I'm just not sure as to why it is so difficult to not persecute somone and just help answer their questions.

I appologize for yelling but I was getting extremely frustrated with the lack of answers to the posted questions. I don't need people to tell me how bad of an idea it is for a whm to melee when I have already said that I only do it when the pt I'm in okays it. If I was looking for advice on whether or not to melee as whm I would have asked for it. I just don't understand how a group of adults (I'm assuming everyone here is either an adult or close to being an adult and has some concept how to answer a question pertinently), I guess that's what I get for assuming.

Side note: I don't understand how I read so many post by the Moderators when I first joined this forum about staying on topics and not posting random threads, so this forum will not end up like Allakazham. But, what happened in this thread is the same thing that happened at Allakazham when I asked a similar quest. I was persecuted for the way I wanted to play and the question I asked went unanswered for 7 pages worth of posts.

And again I say thank you to those of you that have attempted to answer my questions with viable information.

[Nazo]

The name is Spiritbear and I was yelling cause everyone was saying the same thing. Even though I had already said that I play backline main healer.

No, to be fair you started out with:

I usually play frontline whm when I pt, but would like to know what job would be better for a sub to do that.
Which conflicts with your later statements.

If one of your questions is "which sub-job should I use to melee in a party" which appears to be the case from this quote, then the answer is none, because meleeing in a party isn't a good idea and you certainly shouldn't be choosing a sub-job to enhance it because that isn't your main role. Which is basically what everyone has said.

Regarding soloing, at your level I'm not sure if /nin is really such a great choice, you'll only have utsusemi-ichi which takes an age to cast and if you can't get it back up before stoneskin dies you never will. From memory when I tried it before 74 I spent more time trying to cast defensive spells than actually hitting the mob. Perhaps /pld or something with more defensive stats and abilities with some def food might be worth thinking about. If you're using staff then an earth staff at 51 is a good buy as it decreases physical damage taken considerably (20%? Can't remember off hand).

[Celeal]

Maybe it works at level 75 in merit parties. I think I had seen posts about WHM/NIN with Hexastrike (spelling?) in merit TP-burn parties.

However, WHM melee in exp. parties at level 50 is such a rare practice that... it can be possible there is no one can answer your question. From my experience, I have never seen or heard any successful stories of WHM melee while main healing in exp. parties at level 50.

At level 50 ~ 60, based on the common parties setup that I joined, or party setup that I known of, I don't see it works in theory, I never seen this concept put into practice, or any actual proves that it works.

If there really is an advantage or value for a WHM to melee in exp. parties at level 50, there should be WHM already done it, and there should be a common practice for today. But the fact is, it is not common.

If there is any strong reason to backup why you would like to be at the frontline, I am sure people will listen.

[massaranger]

im a frontline rdm but i do respect the party and when they dont like it i just use my elm staff macros and stand back im lv 72 rdm i like to skill up my sword till i get to cap and stand back which takes mostly 1/3 to a half a lv and soloing spirts within is ok but a whm i never have heard that before that dose sound obserd.

[Mog]

im a frontline rdm but i do respect the party and when they dont like it i just use my elm staff macros and stand back im lv 72 rdm i like to skill up my sword till i get to cap and stand back which takes mostly 1/3 to a half a lv and soloing spirts within is ok but a whm i never have heard that before that dose sound obserd.

:huh:

[Kirsteena]

Ok a gear suggestion if you are serious about this - get sniper rings and a lifebelt to start off with - that's 20 acc. AF hands are good as I recall, they have str.

Just remember that any sub other than a mage sub will leave you (as an Elvaan) far too short of mp to perform your job. I have mp merits, and a ton of mp gear for when I start casting, loads of hmp gear, and I still need more at times. You can't predict every party, and sometimes just the slightest things can go wrong and you won't be ready. Those are the situations where you being up front at all will wipe you. And if you can predict them, you are the best player ever. You are partying with 5 other unknown quantities.

[Mog]

Just remember that any sub other than a mage sub will leave you (as an Elvaan) far too short of mp to perform your job. I have mp merits, and a ton of mp gear for when I start casting, loads of hmp gear, and I still need more at times. You can't predict every party, and sometimes just the slightest things can go wrong and you won't be ready. Those are the situations where you being up front at all will wipe you. And if you can predict them, you are the best player ever. You are partying with 5 other unknown quantities.

Very, very true Kirsteena.

[Icemage]

First off, no one has been off-topic in this thread. You talked specifically about advice on what you could do to improve your melee damage as a front-line WHM, and no discussion about that topic can be made until it is pointed out that front-lining as WHM usually isn't very effective, even in the cases where it does not hurt your performance as a mage.

There is, of course, a plethora of gear that you can acquire to improve that marginal performance slightly; stuff like Life Belt (+10 ACC), Venerer Ring(+3 ACC), WHM AF gloves (+5 STR), and such can help you a bit, but using such items will by their nature reduce your effectiveness at your primary duty, which is keeping the party healthy.

By the same token, you could use a non-standard sub like /NIN, /THF, or /DRK to improve your melee performance, but you'll lose out on your spellcasting potency.

---

Coming back to the original question, level 51 is really the break point for WHM. There is no other weapon to replace Light/Apollo/Healing Staff's +10% Cure Potency, and all three of those staves have dismally low damage ratings.

This, as they say, causes a problem, since you're now forced to either swap in a halfway decent weapon to melee with in between spells (extremely tedious), or melee with just those low-damage staves (which means you're not making any visible dent on the enemies).

Even if you do the weapon swap, you lose your TP every time you swap weapons, and you also blink visibly on-screen, which makes anyone who is trying to target you with spells lose their targetting and have to start anew (such as your friendly neighborhood RDM who is trying to help you keep up with Refresh).

The point really is that, once you get high enough to use elemental staves, you really don't have much in terms of damage options without serious tradeoffs - if you're wondering why so much of the playerbase looks down on WHM melee, this is the reason.

P.S. Earth Staff is 20% damage resistance, in addition to +4 Vitality.

EDIT: P.P.S. I should note that I played melee WHM all the way to level 50 back in the NA beta 3 years ago. From level 40-50, my accuracy fell steadily, and by level 50 I think I was landing maybe 1 hit in 3. There's more accuracy boost gear and food available now, so you might have slightly better results, but that's still a pretty dismal result since I was seeing hits for 0 damage depressingly often.


Icemage

[Spiritbear]

Well anyone that plays whm thinking it is designed to melee will learn rather quickly that you can't do much dmg to the mobs. I learned that in the very first pt I was in as a whm. It isn't going to stop the fact that I would like to max out all the stats I can on my whm. I don't attack the mobs with the facade that I am going to make a huge difference I do it to max out my stats, and would like to use my whm to farm in some of the higher areas when I get up in lvls, why I want to do that is because I use to hate being alone somewhere as my war and get agroed by something, die and there was no whm near me that could fight there way there and raise me. I am the guy in the ls that will usually go out of my way if I'm not doing anything to help raise someone in my ls. I also intend to pl as my whm and I will need to be able to handle anything that links to the pt. I like to do things that are out of the norm for everyone else. I don't plan on being a serious dd with my whm, nor do I plan on being a frontline much after 50, but I would like to be able to go somewhere and lvl by myself if I feel the need to do so, even if it is only a small amount of exp per fight. Thank you all again for the advice.

[Mog]

Well anyone that plays whm thinking it is designed to melee will learn rather quickly that you can't do much dmg to the mobs. I learned that in the very first pt I was in as a whm. It isn't going to stop the fact that I would like to max out all the stats I can on my whm. I don't attack the mobs with the facade that I am going to make a huge difference I do it to max out my stats, and would like to use my whm to farm in some of the higher areas when I get up in lvls, why I want to do that is because I use to hate being alone somewhere as my war and get agroed by something, die and there was no whm near me that could fight there way there and raise me. I am the guy in the ls that will usually go out of my way if I'm not doing anything to help raise someone in my ls. I also intend to pl as my whm and I will need to be able to handle anything that links to the pt. I like to do things that are out of the norm for everyone else. I don't plan on being a serious dd with my whm, nor do I plan on being a frontline much after 50, but I would like to be able to go somewhere and lvl by myself if I feel the need to do so, even if it is only a small amount of exp per fight. Thank you all again for the advice.

Here' s a bit of advice. If you want to be more productive with getting xp with your whm, don't ever melee. On the side, you should skill up your whm clubs and other weapons. However, if you don't mind going at a slower pace, do what you want to.

I just think that you'll enjoy skilling up and getting good xp, so that you may solo in the higher levels.

[Icemage]

If your point was that you wanted to just keep up with combat skills, you should have simply stated so at the beginning. This conversation would have taken a much different turn if so.

At 50+, if you must bring up your weapon skills, your best bet is to join skillup parties. Meleeing in XP parties is not the answer, since you won't really have time or energy to actually swing your weapon very often, even if what you're fighting isn't going to punish your party with nasty TP or AoE moves.

For PL, level difference plays a much larger role than combat skills since things will be much lower level than you if you're PLing. If you're a level 50 WHM, I guarantee you will have no problem guarding a party out in Qufim, for instance.

As for solo XP... no way. Go do a Chocobo travel quest for an XP scroll once a week when you have spare time. That's way more XP, in a much safer fashion, than you will otherwise earn solo. WHM is one of the worst solo jobs prior to level 74. Even Easy Prey enemies will decimate you unless you are WHM/RDM at 64+ with Phalanx and capped Enhancing Magic, or if you're WHM/NIN at 74+.


Icemage

[Feenicks]

A WHM who melees? You shouldn't do that. It's so much better if you play as a backline healer. You're letting your party down by trying to melee all the time.

[Caspian]

I shouldn't have to justify myself to get a simple, "/nin would be a good choice for you to melee with."
Just so we're clear:
/NIN might work alright, just dual wield hammers. Later on darksteel mauls are actually fairly useful in doing damage solo.
Also, when, where, and what jobs were you pt'ing with when you were outdamaging everyone else in the party?
I hunt coffer mobs and have been farming Eyes lately with my lvl 75 whm friend, and even with him being 7 lvl's higher, having capped club, and me with a very underleveled axe skill and -acc. rings, I still do more damage than he does and hit more often as well.

Very near endgame, you'll want to look into getting Reverend mail and an Optical hat too.

[Icemage]

LOL @ Reverend Mail.

It's easier to raise RDM or BLU to 75 and actually have some damage capability than it is to get people to go fight Shen for Reverend Mail (and still have your damage mostly suck in comparison).


Icemage

[Caspian]

LOL @ Reverend Mail.
It's easier to raise RDM or BLU to 75 and actually have some damage capability than it is to get people to go fight Shen for Reverend Mail (and still have your damage mostly suck in comparison).
Icemage
Lol, true, but it is attack centered WHM equipment.

[IfritnoItazura]

I am trying to figure out what I should be lvling for a sub job so I can do some soloing as my whm. I'm tired of getting the same crap statements that whms shouldn't solo or fight for that matter.

I usually try to play frontline whm when I pt, but would like to know what job would be better for a sub to do that.


I think you guys are wasting your time; OP doesn't want to know the truth; Spiritbear wants somebody to tell him that "WHM should solo and should fight" and that he should "play frontline whm when (he) pt".

Telling him why he should not will just make him madder and more stubbon; he's looking for validation, not well-meaning, accurate observations from experience and analysis of the game mechanism.

:biggrin:

[Kirsteena]

It's easier to raise RDM or BLU to 75 and actually have some damage capability than it is to get people to go fight Shen for Reverend Mail (and still have your damage mostly suck in comparison).

Lol that fight is not one I want to do in a hurry again. My mannequin is very glad to wear my reverend mail till I can wear it...

[Olorin401]

I play frontline when I am able to. If I am sitting in the back and only having to cast a cure ever few min then why shouldn't I be up in the front lvling my club skills. I know what my job is suppose to do and I can do it from the front while I bash in the mobs head with my hammer, there have been several instances where I have done more dmg then the rest of the pt, but those are usually when we have a PL with us. I don't understand why everyone on this game has to be and do what everyone else wants them to do. If I am in a pt I know when I need to pull back and just cure and buff, but I'm also competent enough to know when I can be up there with the rest of the pt using my beating stick on the mobs. This post was not to have everyone tell me that I can't be a frontline, it was to find out what everyone felt would be BETTER in thier OPINION for a whm to sub and use for equipment. So lets try to stick to the questions at hand and not try to dissuade someone from enjoying the game the way they want, and I would also like to challenge everyone that reads this post and plays the game to do the same. The game is for people to have fun, not so they have to bend and conform to the desires of the masses.
As quite a few people have mentioned here, White Mage simply isn't a job that is desinged well for melee, especially in a experience/limit point party setup. The job is too fragile, too weak, and the entire party gets much more benefit from you casting enhancing and curative magic.

Also, an EXP party is definetly not the place for a White Mage to skill up club or staff. You can easily get to 100 do so while soloing EP & DC mobs through your 20s and 30s if you have some spare time. After that, keep an eye out for skill up parties.

Once you get up to the higher levels, and you decide you do want to get into soloing as a White Mage, the best way to do it is to have Ninja sub. You can get away with it because the combination of Club Dual wield, Utsusemi and Stoneskin is nuts. At that point though, I'm forced to recommend that you pick up some extra special pieces of equipment specifically for soloing - an Optical Hat, Reverend Mail, and at least one really decent club. A Darksteel +1 will do, but you should probably go for a Kraken Club, Sea Robber Club, or Seawolf Club.

And if you're really REALLY ambitious and dedicated to the game.. there's always Mjollnir.

[Icemage]

lol @ Mjollnir. I thnk the only relic weapon that is weaker than Mjollnir is Claustrum. Complete waste of time and resources. Mjollnir won't magically turn a WHM into a DD - and just like with Reverend Mail, it's easier to raise Red Mage or Blue Mage to 75 than complete a Mjollnir, and you'll be much happier with your damage output at the end.


Icemage

[Caspian]

and just like with Reverend Mail, it's easier to raise Red Mage or Blue Mage to 75 than complete a Mjollnir, and you'll be much happier with your damage output at the end.
That fact that its true makes me lol all the more.
What did Spiritbear decide to do, since he hasn't posted here in nearly two weeks. What route did he decide to take?

[Olorin401]

lol @ Mjollnir. I thnk the only relic weapon that is weaker than Mjollnir is Claustrum. Complete waste of time and resources. Mjollnir won't magically turn a WHM into a DD - and just like with Reverend Mail, it's easier to raise Red Mage or Blue Mage to 75 than complete a Mjollnir, and you'll be much happier with your damage output at the end.
Icemage
Yeah true.. but hey just the idea of carrying it around and knowing almost no one else has it would be enough for me!

[Batrachophagus]

Holy or Divine Breastplate is a good defensive piece for the body slot.

[Spiritbear]

I decided to take a break from Whm just after I hit 50 and go G1 done. I switched over to mainly lvling Bst and Pld, but also lvled all of my jobs past 7 except Brd and Smn.

[Mog]

Holy or Divine Breastplate is a good defensive piece for the body slot.

/beats the dead thread with an ugly stick

[Spiritbear]

/beats the dead thread with an ugly stick


ROFL. I had actually forgotten about this thread. It was odd to get an e-mail about it.

[Achaicus]

I did have a party, awhile back, where we had two BLMs. One of them subbed SMN and help to pull spiders in Boyahda and meeleeed with his scythe. It surprised us how well it worked out ^~

Anyway, when a party is doing so well that any back-line people have little to do I generally say go ahead and meelee 'in between.' Sometimes, they ask, and sometimes I suggest it 1st. Sometimes it does end up building up the enemy TP too much for the tank, so we stop.

A Taru in my server likes to meelee/solo as WHM, I don't know to what degree in, say, exp ptys and such - I only relatively recently got acquainted with him in the game the mission LS that I had gotten. He did comment that people were often surprised at how well he could do (I can try to get details if you like - just PM me).

After about the mid 60s, I have no experiences to draw from where a WHM would 'mix in' any meelee. I'd have to check with my Taru friend to see if he was able to. Actually, there might have been a few times. I think, on occasion, exp parties would provide a few opportunities as a favor to the WHM to skill up when they were close to thier cap.

I typically mix in meelee, myself - at least to keep my skill up. But, as it turns out - for me, anyway - the higher level I go, the more non-stop that I do party buffs. To the point where I had realized that I didn't even think of meeleeing b/c I was so frantically running to-and-fro doing Ballad and so on.

Anyway, I like the idea of 'maximum effort' in general. But, in some situations, it does back-fire such as the TP building too much for the tank to handle, or when a creature's attack has too high of a risk to 'one-shot' of disable (for example, get put to sleep) the main healer.

- Greg W.

ps - I bet $50 that I'll have to edit something - speling at least ^~