Player Mentallity

[Akashimo]

Ok, this is starting to eat at me. Been a while since I've merrited on whm. So I went lfp for as whm/nin, in hopes of not getting the typical crazy exp/limit points per hour parties. V.V; and I was wrong to hope that. So lead wanted me to change to /smn, a rare thing for me to get....(thinking in my head, joy bad omen). Before and after zoning to camp, the leader asked me to haste everyone, which made me say "Moments like this, make me miss sky" & he said, "Sky sucks and you lvl 52 and up faster" <.< Thats sad thing to say imho and i stated that as such to him in the pty chat, "Yea, but that gives us all these 75s that don't know the basics of their jobs" kind of ended that dissusion there as the rdm zoned and we started up.

Basicly its probally just restating the many threads here about new areas exp and such. But lets see some numbers to see if anyone feels the same~

Like besides the mini opening rant and such, how many people feel that such thinking is becoming too far out of hand? And not to mention its always the same tactics and such with no one experimenting for end game merits any more?

I mean also wouldn't you want a pty where even the mages to DD to 1, speed up kill rate, 2 come up with different skill chain combos, 3 just step outside the accepted norm?

[Jei]

I do miss the old balancing PT set up. But in the other hand I enjoy TP burning parties too. I don't see the problem for Whm to sub smn or be main haster however. My main job is Rdm, I not only have to haste every melee, I also have to refresh everyone with MP, main heal, throw in some enfeeble, dispel, blindna, paralyzena and all other stuff too lol in merit PT ^^

[Akashimo]

Lol, i do feel for you rdms. One of the best jack of all trades doing all trades in these TP burns. Personally if the main DDs weren't taking so much hits & wearing those haubs I'd be able to haste them all more and keep up with it like a refresh cycle in a good old beetle pty w/ 5/6 casters including myself XD. Just /smn just makes my mp go faster than /blm or /rdm because /rdm forces me to manage it tightly like if i was soloing or /blm for the lovely conserve mp.

The convental parties really had to do with knowning how to set it up so you could handle links/adds easily and being able to make sure everyone was at a confertable pace. These days these TP burns been more of a strain on pullers and mages from my point of view. More work for the ubber(and overworked) rdms and brds ;-;

[Jei]

Yea that's true about /blm. If you have AFv2 body or V cloak plus sanction refresh, that's 2 MP per tick already without SMN. Conserve MP from BLM might work great too. It's very unlikely you'll have no refresher at 75 too :O

[Akashimo]

Normally I always have sanction refresh and a rdm or brd to up my mp recovery by 4mp a tick. Add that with blm subbed and i can manage easily since converse mp is really a life line for mp XD. /smn max i gotten was 1003 than that was gone faster than /blms of 900ish and a 5mp per tick doesn't really do a good job to make up for the recovery :/

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I try to get out of TB burn if I can and I'd definately love to get sky on my current character, but even getting help with that these days is like pulling teeth.

I'd honestly rather EXP on the OTHER side of Caedarva Mire (Dvucca Isle Staging point). Lamia Idolators aren't superfast and easy EXP, but at least its EXCITING. I like the rampart camp near where Cerebrus spawns on Mount Z as well. Otherwise, I'd rather go to Lufaise Meadows or Sky.

[Aeolus]

You dont have to TP burn, lots of people still lv in old areas and you can make PTs if thats the kind of thing you like but I really dont get this anti TP burn attitude. Its gets you lots of exp fast or merits so you have lots of time to do other things in the game. I can do missions and camp more NMs now I dont have to spend all my hours on the game exping for 1-2levels a day past 55. Sure, some people are not learning their jobs but you always get that, remember all those bloody rdms that dont know how to use refresh effectively, now you just get melee that dont know thier jobs. People need to stop picking on the TP burn already.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

You dont have to TP burn, lots of people still lv in old areas and you can make PTs if thats the kind of thing you like but I really dont get this anti TP burn attitude.

Its the fact that nobody is willing to go outside of ToA zones to EXP or Merit now unless you have a static, are with friends that want to go somewhere else or are dealing with someone who didn't buy the expansion pack. I've never been asked to EXP in sky even, which is still a viable option.

The populace at large is simply too lazy to move out to ToA zones because (1) the mobs are easy and (2) the areas are much easier to get to.

The easy mobs are one thing, but the fact that Aht'Urghan is more or less a hub for all these zone is poor game design. The fact that we need a Tu'Lia warp quest now is kinda sad. You're already dropped in front of your OP warper if you pay the Whitegate Warp Taru enough. From there, you can use the OP to warp to Li'Telor and then call your raised chocobo to ride to Ro'Meave and take a short walk to Hall of Gods.

As for understanding why people don't like TP Burn:

(1) Not everyone likes EXPing on weak mobs, some of us like a challenge and to feel like we really earned our EXP.

(2) Various jobs are not invited to these PTs, you might love these PTs but guess what? You're a MNK and an easy invite for TP burn. Try seeking as BLM, SMN, PLD or RNG. TP burn is just unbalanced in respect to certain jobs. The current situation is worse and more elitest than arrowburns pre-nerf. As a result...

(3) We're getting players - Bards and Melee specifically - who are less and less skilled at their jobs. I've PTed with tons of WARs and MNKs who never break 1k on weaponskills and its because they come gimped and they rely on BRDs to pick up their slack on accuracy gear, as a result, the damage output of other jobs is gimped as well because they could be getting March or Minuet instead.

Finally...

(4) The fact that viable, alternative zones exist for EXP/Merit and no one wants to go to them is more annoying than someone not having the ToA expansion at all. I don't care how easy the EXP is, when eight to ten PTs are in EXPing near Azouph Isle and Mamool Ja Staging point it is not a viable camp anymore. Accept that and go somewhere else.

(5) Don't you find the fact that people need to ask what makes what skillchain when you go do to gods and HNM? Its like the only place skillchains are ever discussed and planned out now.

So basically, the people who don't like TP burn don't like it because its EXP at high level is broken and unbalanced. The complaints aren't "picking on" TP burns, they're valid criticisms and SE needs to address them.

ToA has been a farce outside of the new jobs, job adjustments, the Group 2 merits, the deflation and Assault. The missions are a joke, Besieged is so flawed and laggy its not even funny and Sanction encourages weak players early on.

[Jei]

I kinda like staying around ToA area just because camps are fast to get to. It does get annoying during weekends when camps area all corwded tho. A few weeks ago, my PT moved around couple ToA camps without finding any openning. So we went to Lufaise and the place was also packed with 3 parties. We then moved to Ulagerand range however you spell it, and every camps there are packed.... We ended up disbanding -_-;;

[Raydeus]

I picked option #5 (the one where there's a blank spot):

Old news, but I have fun either it's a TP burn, Mana burn or regular setup, heck, even duoing with a BST. But I feel bad for players who don't like these changes, thankfully SE is making Sky easier to access so they might have a better time finding people for a regular xp party there again. :thumbsup:



Kinda long 5th option, eh? :biggrin:

[Akashimo]

Omgwtfbbqkitten deffiently hit the nail on the head for the issues here^^ (/em gives all posters on this thread a giant pizza.)

One the topic about skillchains, I've notice this all too much. Either they won't, or they end up making detonation on the puks from the spamming -.-. Or when I'm on thf I try to make light or darkness by saving my tp for when a compaidle partner goes on their own v.v; Heh, even thf/war i can still make some good SC using Vorpal Blade.

The over crowded camps usually aren't the case for me, its just the heavy pulling merit party that wants to get chain 10 or over that ruins the zone. Uhg, last night during the pty i wrote the OP about....that happened -.-.... gave me a knot in my stomach seeing this. The kind where you see a nin in hauby getting 1 shotted easily by a skoffin >.< /cry. And even when most camps are taken ppl still try to move in. Mostly i think they just don't want to spend time and IS going to a different staging point. Which is kind of a broken version of our classic OP warp since we usually have no problem spending gil from home city to Zi'tah or Qufim Island.

And what's Uleguerand Range like? Only place i think i haven't exp besides the lamia idolaters side of mire.

For earlier lvls, can you say 55s and up getting in on this? Nothing but leyway point parties when I go on my MNK T.T;; I miss those crazy congo line crabs in kuftal, but none of the dds want to go to def boost mobs areas even with a debuffer in the party, espically other monks at my level area I've talked to. Its just plain scarey, considering the time it takes to kill these colibris average around the same time it would those crabs.

At this point, regular setups or duoing with a smn, drg and/or another thf is what i'm always looking for when i get the chance, lol

[Heartily]

Glad to have something to do during maint.

[Aeolus]

So the problem here is that now Blm, Rngs and Plds are whining because they can no longer do thier Burn PTs? Anyway I see lots of Plds when Im out meriting and just as many rngs, rng own for TP burn. They do 800-1k+ Dmg every second mob and about 100-200 dmg per hit on the first mob. The only jobs I see going to waste thanks to TP burns are Blm and they can just stop whining already and deal with it like we have for years while they manaburned. Manaburn still works anyway, just people dont seem able to make contact with each other to set some up. Parties have only ever been challenging imo if your fighting mobs which are way too high for your lv and you get capped exp per fight with maybe a chain 2 every now and then, apart from that the only other challenging PTs I have had is when you get people who just cant do their job then its a little harder to keep things smooth. Challenging does not just = longer duration of fight like in all pre ToAU areas, it just = wasting your time. If you want a challenge exp in the middle of an area with links and have brd sleep everything so you can chain to 200 in the red - yellow HP constantly (This would be in a ToAU area).

[Akashimo]

The problem is, these TP burns take away the basic concept of team work that leads to knowning how to do your job right in party tactics. Which in itself a very small scale version of the many end-game activites. Take for example a Suzaku fight. Imagine if all you did was TP burn him, wouldn't end will espically when he hits Chainspell. Now lets say a hnmls that is made up of complete TP burn only people, they wouldn't get anywhere in the long run.

As far for blackmages, I find them more worth while in a TP-burn convental mix in the ToAU areas. Remember when I said i try to make a light or dark sc on my thf? Last time I was meriting in Mamoo Ja Staging Point, the blm caugh on to when i able to close the sc and mb on them most of the time. Which did increase our kill rate better than any normal TP burn :3 hehehe

PLDs and RNGs, gotta love them in the same party simply because pld hold rng hate usually and I can go a little wild by not subbing nin :3

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Challenging does not just = longer duration of fight like in all pre ToAU areas, it just = wasting your time. If you want a challenge exp in the middle of an area with links and have brd sleep everything so you can chain to 200 in the red - yellow HP constantly (This would be in a ToAU area).

That's not challenging, that's easy. But try pulling if off in the middle Arrapogo Reef or Caedarva Mire without the mobs being Imps or Jnun. Try it in Mamool Ja staging point without pulling Sea Puks. Try it on Hilltrolls and Puddings. Try it Lufaise Meadows or roaming in Ule Range. That's challenging.

You're not looking for a challenge, you're just justifying the end result here.

Some of would like to have merits with merit, not ease. I just hope Alzadaal holds something a little more challenging than what we've seen so far.

[Aeolus]

Usually fight 3-4 trolls at a time and we dont use sea puks as much as possible as they suck for exp, its still easy. Also sky is easy as well and before ToAU its where we went for mass exp, was easy then and its easy now.

[Akashimo]

Sky is more challenging in actually getting to camp and making sure not to get any magic aggro. And if some people had slightly short attentionshans, (guilty of this in a few parties), the challenge is to pay attention, at least in my eyes. Trolls more or less take about the average time it takes to kill a weapon using a thf closing an unresisted lvl 3 sc that at least 2 other party members MB one. If they make the new area with the idea of it being a merit zone, and give it the need for conventail type of setups, i.e. mobs with higher hp, not super low def then we might start seeing some progress, but the new camps would most likely be ignored, and not to mention having a blm or "zomg a sc, but that ws sucks" be out of the picture for another ToAU area again.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Usually fight 3-4 trolls at a time and we dont use sea puks as much as possible as they suck for exp, its still easy. Also sky is easy as well and before ToAU its where we went for mass exp, was easy then and its easy now.

You just said it was challenging. Which is it?

[Jei]

Forming a balance PT and get a brd is more challenging than the killing part itself imo.... I think that's true for most level ranges too. Making good balancing groups, hope the players you invite knows how to play their jobs, find a good empty camps, those are all challenging parts of partying.

Playing bard lately. The EXP per hour I'm getting really varies a lot on PT set up. I'm not up there for merit yet but when I make my own party the exp comes a lot faster -,-

[Emurei]

And what's Uleguerand Range like? Only place i think i haven't exp besides the lamia idolaters side of mire.Well the Camps are a pain in the ass (i can say that right?) to get to, you fight demons with high def and the ones with doom also. They also drop some good loot I make Gil while exping there. Its the Standard PT set up (pre tp burn) As a Sam I love it there! for the first time my job trait "Demon Killer" and job ablity "Warding Circle" is useful :)

[Aeolus]

I said if you want a challenge. Its not challenging to me, doing missions, quests, HNM etc is challenging to me. Exping is always going to be easy unless you are with newbs or exping on NMs.

i.e. mobs with higher hp, not super low def then we might start seeing some progress, but the new camps would most likely be ignored, and not to mention having a blm or "zomg a sc, but that ws sucks" be out of the picture for another ToAU area again.

You are again just wanting longer fights which is not any more challenging, do you just want less exp per hour or something?

[Akashimo]

You are again just wanting longer fights which is not any more challenging, do you just want less exp per hour or something?
Longer fights because the mobs are at the difficulty for their level is what I'm trying to say. Not like how most ToAU mobs are. Duoing Sea Puks with a MNK is pretty easy and takes a little bit longer than it would in a merit party, but yeilds slightly more exp. And for something of a T to VT check to be easily killed by two people just smacking it with blunt weapons, when you'd be less likely to do that to a T or VT mobs in Sky just proves the point. Easily chained 5 to boot before i had to recover mp. They are not challenging nor they provide the difficulty for their level that mobs should be. Its almost like Ballista in my eyes, just without the fun items and chevrons and these mobs are like the lone smns that were gonna AF but got silenced and bind by a rdm, 3 mnks and 2 thfs. That's how easy it is and easy = boring.

[Aeolus]

2 people with blunt weapons /nin could kill t-vt maybe even an IT skeletons with slightly more difficulty, should we nerf skeletons as well?

[Akashimo]

2 people with blunt weapons /nin could kill t-vt maybe even an IT skeletons with slightly more difficulty, should we nerf skeletons as well? No, but I'm saying, outside of skeletons, blunt isn't usually the best, yet, we were killing with ease that it seemed like they were skeles. And no one wants to see a skele nerf, espically when it comes to those skull of nms :X

[Eauijhkuu]

Basing challenge and skill as a matter of greedishly hogging EXP like a fat kid does birthday cake...

But being a bogart doesn't have much skill at all.

Can this same 'skill' be used in against certain NM battles?
Or would this 'skill" be at all possible if the certain job's ability were resisted like heck?

Here's an idea:
For an extra 'challenge', how about trying that burn with /WHM instead?!

...Let's not be silly.

[Akashimo]

Basing challenge and skill as a matter of greedishly hogging EXP like a fat kid does birthday cake...

But being a bogart doesn't have much skill at all.

Can this same 'skill' be used in against certain NM battles?
Or would this 'skill" be at all possible if the certain job's ability were resisted like heck?

Here's an idea:
For an extra 'challenge', how about trying that burn with /WHM instead?!

...Let's not be silly.
Heh, lacks sublety, but gets the point across in a nice way *tosses Eau a cookie*

[Icemage]

My only issue with the current state of affairs at 60+ is that people aren't willing to communicate anymore because the predominant form of XP party requires little to no interaction.

To me, it's not an issue of player mentality, it's just bad game design on the part of Square-Enix. They quite deliberately broke the game mechanics of Skillchain + Magic Burst in order to satisfy the majority of players who wanted DD jobs to have a more prominent role, but we've all paid a price in the process. I'm not saying that the current state of affairs is worse than what it was when BLMs and RNGs were the go-to choices for parties. I'm just saying that these are the trade-offs that have been made.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

My only issue with the current state of affairs at 60+ is that people aren't willing to communicate anymore because the predominant form of XP party requires little to no interaction.

To me, it's not an issue of player mentality, it's just bad game design on the part of Square-Enix. They quite deliberately broke the game mechanics of Skillchain + Magic Burst in order to satisfy the majority of players who wanted DD jobs to have a more prominent role, but we've all paid a price in the process. I'm not saying that the current state of affairs is worse than what it was when BLMs and RNGs were the go-to choices for parties. I'm just saying that these are the trade-offs that have been made.


Icemage

Well it can't be denied, SE dropped the ball when it comes to certain design aspects of ToA, but with or without that aspect present, human weakness or just plain ignorance still seems to be the prevailing logic every time. Its a flavor-of-the-month/bandwagon aspect of this game that just gets tiresome. And that's before we even touch on the endgame drama.

I hope the next expansion isn't as forgivingas ToA is, and that SE stops compensating for the ineptitude and laziness of players. As much as I loathe to say it, we need another CoP to kick the FFXI community's ass.

[Eiyoko]

Well it can't be denied, SE dropped the ball when it comes to certain design aspects of ToA, but with or without that aspect present, human weakness or just plain ignorance still seems to be the prevailing logic every time. Its a flavor-of-the-month/bandwagon aspect of this game that just gets tiresome. And that's before we even touch on the endgame drama.
I hope the next expansion isn't as forgivingas ToA is, and that SE stops compensating for the ineptitude and laziness of players. As much as I loathe to say it, we need another CoP to kick the FFXI community's ass.
I agree...

[Akashimo]

Well it can't be denied, SE dropped the ball when it comes to certain design aspects of ToA, but with or without that aspect present, human weakness or just plain ignorance still seems to be the prevailing logic every time. Its a flavor-of-the-month/bandwagon aspect of this game that just gets tiresome. And that's before we even touch on the endgame drama.

I hope the next expansion isn't as forgivingas ToA is, and that SE stops compensating for the ineptitude and laziness of players. As much as I loathe to say it, we need another CoP to kick the FFXI community's ass.
Over all, I think thats the case too. CoP is fun, just tiring in trying to get people to listen which is probally why SE made ToAU missions easy and soloable as they are. But what made CoP is what is really needed at this rate with ToAU.

On another related subject, last ToAU party i had on my monk(which i started), took us about half way through the party to get our SC and mb on the marks @.@; but fun none the less waiting for the thf to SATAVB while I was voke one XD ah, it reminded me soo much of quicksands caves :)

[IfritnoItazura]

I think Icemage mentioned this before, but when melee + WS spam consistently produce more damage than Skillchain + MB in hours and hours of playing, there's something fundamentally broken with the battle mechanism.

At least some WS's are overdue for a nerf, while SC effects should be made more damaging. Also, giving some (more) substantial magic attack bonus to MB's would be nice.

Better AI for monsters would be nice, too--I mean, if Beastmen are supposed to be intelligent, why not actually try to silent the WHM instead of the WAR/MNK? And, when was the last time you've heard of a rabbit fighting to the death on an open field instead of running for its life?!

Making battles more varied and requiring more team work would do much for players enjoyment, I think.

* * *

Back to player mentality: SC + MB is just more fun. It feels more like team work, instead of just "doing my thing" while I happen to be in a random party because I want experience points.

[Akashimo]

I think Icemage mentioned this before, but when melee + WS spam consistently produce more damage than Skillchain + MB in hours and hours of playing, there's something fundamentally broken with the battle mechanism.

At least some WS's are overdue for a nerf, while SC effects should be made more damaging. Also, giving some (more) substantial magic attack bonus to MB's would be nice.

Better AI for monsters would be nice, too--I mean, if Beastmen are supposed to be intelligent, why not actually try to silent the WHM instead of the WAR/MNK? And, when was the last time you've heard of a rabbit fighting to the death on an open field instead of running for its life?!

Making battles more varied and requiring more team work would do much for players enjoyment, I think.

* * *

Back to player mentality: SC + MB is just more fun. It feels more like team work, instead of just "doing my thing" while I happen to be in a random party because I want experience points.

Yes and Yes to the SC and MB statements. I'm a bit iffy on the ws nerf, but then again who wouldn't? Over all i say it should depend more on modifier gear than atk/acc for dmg you deal on them.

As for better AI mobs, say hello to the New Windy Dynamis a.k.a Dynamis-San d'Oria :) Though, it would be funner to see that mobs are smart. Even ep or tws knowning if you're gonna SA them just by locking on and /follow to wait for them to stop.

Any day I could make Darkness on thf or Light on Whm i know i got a good pty reguardless of exp/hour. ^^

[LyonheartLakshmi]

I mean also wouldn't you want a pty where even the mages to DD to 1, speed up kill rate, 2 come up with different skill chain combos, 3 just step outside the accepted norm?
I don't mind the old-school skillchain built parties, and I don't mind TP burn parties. What drives me nuts is a party that was thrown together like a TP burn party, and then certain members start asking for a SC to be formed. Recently, I was in a Bibiki Bay party that had 2 WARs and a PLD as the front line, all level 67 to 69. Had the job choices for the front line been put together with a bit more forethought, we could have been doing a lvl 3 SC. But the best we could have achieved was some funky lvl 2 SC. Last night, I was trying to come up with a SC for NIN, WAR and DRG. Again, we're in all the wrong SC boxes.

I wouldn't mind doing extra traveling to get to less crowded areas, or just for something different. But then the old "My LS needs me right now gotta go bye" stuff happens. And it just reminds me of why the extra time traveling and extra time setting up SCs seems like a waste.

[hongman]

My 1st time in Crawlers Nest and the party I was in was doing Lvl 2 SC's and I was doing the MB - that was a first for me at lvl35!

[Vyuru]

I would have to agree with Akashimo and Ophelia Marie Gwen Wendy Teresa Fran Brenda Barbara Quilla Kitten Banana Fanna Fo Fesca the Third, also known as Omgwtfbbqkitten, here.

Team coordination in parties seems to be lacking these days. People toss together a party and say "do a light SC!" meanwhile it's me (drg), a ranger and a warrior who uses axes only, we just can't do it. People don't want to skillchain anymore even if we have a blm, blu, or a smn who can magic burst off of a light skillchain. They complain about hate bouncing around yet refuse to invite a thief who not only skillchains nicely with me, but who can control hate at the same time.

People use bards now to boost their deficient stats instead of using them to add to their stats, and by deficient stats I mean something that they left out and count on a bard to pick up the slack.

That is really irritating to me. It doesn't happen often but every now and then I get grief for being a dragoon and how little damage I do, and how anyone with a brain would sub thief, yet I can't even eat food or use berserk because if I do then I am tanking for the fight, rather frustrating at times.

The list goes on and on and on, but it really boils down to several things.

1) No understanding of party dynamics, how jobs work together, and how to put together a working party. Which if not many people are on, I can understand that you use what's available to you, but if I can see dozens of people on different jobs all lfg and you made a really crappy party, that's another thing.

2) Overhunting/overcamping. Either taking on mobs way too high for your current level, or else trying to go exp off of colibri/date erucas when there are 8 parties already there, meanwhile there are 0 parties and 30 tumbleweeds blowing around Bibiki bay, the Boyhada Tree, and other exp camp spots. I mean really, the place only holds 2 parties, 3 is pushing it, 8 is 5 minutes waiting between pulls.


I don't know if I would be too critical of people not having sky access pre lvl 70. I know it can be done, but if you do not gain access until defeating the crystal warriors, most people refuse to take on any melees unless they are between lvl 70-75, with 75 preferred.

I'd still like sky access though, it sounds like a great place to exp and at least it's a new place for me to solo off of the birds in there, though I might need another few levels before I could do it really.


It's kinda funny, Bibiki Bay used to be the most preferred place for exp because it was so easy, now when I suggest to my parties we go there it is apperantly "too hard"

I dunno, I LIKE my mobs to blow themselves up, whm might be pulling out their hair in panic as the parties hp drops by 50% if the gob drops the bomb at full hp, but hey, it's all good exp ;)


I think a new expansion similar in toughness to CoP would be nice, I haven't gotten that far into it, but so far it really isn't that hard with a good balanced group.

Yeah, I do like the easy mobs of ToAU, after slogging through so much mage heavy content I like how well melees do in ToAU, but lately the parties and some of the players I have met are just so.... I dunno how to put it, so... n00bish, and I don't use that word lightly. It really didn't seem like this a few months ago when we were discussing this in Icemage's blm thread, but it feels almost like a high level valkurm dunes instead of mostly high levels making standard parties work even better than they normally do. Yeah, there are alot of TP burn parties, but there are also alot of normal parties out and about, the whole mentality just feels different now.

So yeah, my opinion on the matter has changed a bit since then.

[Akashimo]

Team coordination in parties seems to be lacking these days. People toss together a party and say "do a light SC!" meanwhile it's me (drg), a ranger and a warrior who uses axes only, we just can't do it. People don't want to skillchain anymore even if we have a blm, blu, or a smn who can magic burst off of a light skillchain. They complain about hate bouncing around yet refuse to invite a thief who not only skillchains nicely with me, but who can control hate at the same time.
Same people who say lolthf v.v;;;

People use bards now to boost their deficient stats instead of using them to add to their stats, and by deficient stats I mean something that they left out and count on a bard to pick up the slack.
Had a pty on my mnk where the brd and smn wouldn't Sinewy Etude or use Fenny non ACC+/Eva+ BP. Bard just mintuet, that it -.-; Smn main heal too. Couldn't use food cause tank was lazy too -.- or more or less depended on the thf for hate.



2) Overhunting/overcamping. Either taking on mobs way too high for your current level, or else trying to go exp off of colibri/date erucas when there are 8 parties already there, meanwhile there are 0 parties and 30 tumbleweeds blowing around Bibiki bay, the Boyhada Tree, and other exp camp spots. I mean really, the place only holds 2 parties, 3 is pushing it, 8 is 5 minutes waiting between pulls.
Congo line crabs and emo gobs, enough said for those areas v.v;


I don't know if I would be too critical of people not having sky access pre lvl 70. I know it can be done, but if you do not gain access until defeating the crystal warriors, most people refuse to take on any melees unless they are between lvl 70-75, with 75 preferred.
Are you saying you need to beat the AA for sky access?....>_>;; Cause they are beaten after you gain sky accesss

It's kinda funny, Bibiki Bay used to be the most preferred place for exp because it was so easy, now when I suggest to my parties we go there it is apperantly "too hard"

I dunno, I LIKE my mobs to blow themselves up, whm might be pulling out their hair in panic as the parties hp drops by 50% if the gob drops the bomb at full hp, but hey, it's all good exp ;)
Quote of the day, and I loved getting blasted on whm casting barfira at the start of a fight the moment the gob bomb tosses :)


Yeah, I do like the easy mobs of ToAU, after slogging through so much mage heavy content I like how well melees do in ToAU, but lately the parties and some of the players I have met are just so.... I dunno how to put it, so... n00bish, and I don't use that word lightly. It really didn't seem like this a few months ago when we were discussing this in Icemage's blm thread, but it feels almost like a high level valkurm dunes instead of mostly high levels making standard parties work even better than they normally do. Yeah, there are alot of TP burn parties, but there are also alot of normal parties out and about, the whole mentality just feels different now.
. These ppl are gonna migrate to ebil WoW >_>;;; Or they came from it..... >_>;;; Class mates at school who talk about WoW sound just like the n00bish ppl that care only of the exp, kill rates and DPS. Not about the whole content of the game to explore. Hehe, heated debates on which is better WoW or FFXI during classes XD >_>; still ends in a draw.

[Vyuru]

Are you saying you need to beat the AA for sky access?....>_>;; Cause they are beaten after you gain sky accesss


Really? Yay! That totally changes my opinion then. I've always heard that you need to beat the AA for sky access, I'll need to look at what the real requirements for gaining sky are. Best news of the day! =^.^=

[Akashimo]

Really? Yay! That totally changes my opinion then. I've always heard that you need to beat the AA for sky access, I'll need to look at what the real requirements for gaining sky are. Best news of the day! =^.^=
Lol, here's the best resource to ffxi related stuff next to this forum - http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/ :3 all /bow to wiki!

[Vyuru]

Pfff, a handful of semi nasty sounding BCNM fights and spawned NM fights is all there is to getting to Tu'Lia? Wusses, I bet I could do that in my sleep :P

That really doesn't seem too bad, I'm going to have to get to work getting sky access now.

[Icemage]

Pfff, a handful of semi nasty sounding BCNM fights and spawned NM fights is all there is to getting to Tu'Lia? Wusses, I bet I could do that in my sleep :P

That really doesn't seem too bad, I'm going to have to get to work getting sky access now.
Wait until you try them all... simultaneously, in the Divine Might quest. :P Not to mention AATT is a cheating little ... bastarudo... unless you're prepared for him. ;)


Icemage

[Akashimo]

Wait until you try them all... simultaneously, in the Divine Might quest. :P Not to mention AATT is a cheating little ... bastarudo... unless you're prepared for him. ;)


Icemage
Amen to that >.<

[Karinya]

So the problem here is that now Blm, Rngs and Plds are whining because they can no longer do thier Burn PTs?
Yeah, I really miss those 15k/hr shieldburn parties. >.> PLD have had the short end of the stick *constantly* since RoZ. In case you haven't been paying attention.

Anyway, I think there's definitely a problem with TAU vs. non-TAU zones, partly because of the massive imbalance of sanction compared to signet, especially the refresh; and partly because some TAU mobs are way too weak for the exp they give. Others aren't - as omgwtfbbqkitten points out, nobody is going to TP burn on lamia, flans, soulflayers or poroggo. Beef up the wimps, colibri, puks and maybe mamool ja a bit, balance signet with sanction and you'll probably see some variety return to choice of camp spots. Along with that, job balance will shift too - if you're fighting monsters that hit back, you're more likely to want a tank, and if you're fighting monsters that won't die in 5 seconds, you might want a skillchain and MB to kill them faster.

[Akashimo]

Just an update from a pty trying to form, enjoy
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/Akashimo/tard_burns.png

[Vyuru]

Wow, just wow, that never goes on in any of my parties. It's fun reading between the lines, such as the, "If I try /nin on the mainlands i guess I have like 100000000+ death comment"

Must say, Thrasher dude hasn't got a clue, from what he said though he actually makes dune n00bs look good.

Gah, I can't take that last statement, a corsair cannot do everything a red mage or bard does. Different subs, different abilities, different jobs.

And I thought the starting RSE/+hp accessory wearing overnuking galkan blm was bad...

=x.X=

[dirtyclown]

I can almost see them drooling in front of their computer screens. Shortbus, GUUUU!!

[Celeal]

"If I try nin on the mainlands i guess I have like 100000000+ death" (quote from above image)

geez... Tank { fear of death }

{ Skill } { Can I have it? }

Regardless of party setup or camp, as long as the party members know what they are doing, it can be fun. It is sux to pick up the slack of those of who cannot perform his role.

[Akashimo]

"If I try nin on the mainlands i guess I have like 100000000+ death" (quote from above image)

geez... Tank { fear of death }

{ Skill } { Can I have it? }

Regardless of party setup or camp, as long as the party members now what he is doing, it can be fun. It is sux to pick up the slack of those of who cannot perform his role.
Yea -.- kind of was picking it up, espically with the bard they gotten barely gotten ballad on me all times and i was dispelling the mob and trying to keep all the melees alive/hasted. Felt like a rdm w/o refresh or convert /cry ; ;
3 deaths total cause of lack of mp and they kept ignoring me on "guys, could you stop moving so far away?"