Paladin Adjustments (new patch)

[FranckKnight]

Paladin Adjustments

With high defensive capabilities and enmity generation in mind, we will be adjusting the effect of the paladin job abilities Sentinel and Rampart.

Sentinel
The effect of Sentinel will be changed from an increase in defense to straight damage mitigation.
Also, all actions taken while Sentinel is in effect will generate additional enmity, allowing the paladin to more easily gain and maintain an enemy's attention.

Rampart
In addition to the defense bonus granted to party members within the area of effect, Rampart will now also provide a "Magic Shield" that will absorb a certain amount of magic damage in the same manner as the spell "Stoneskin."

Shield Mastery
In addition to granting a TP bonus, the Shield Mastery job trait will also prevent interruption to spell casting when an enemy's attack is blocked with a shield.

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I'm really interested in these new changes I must say.

Sentinel won't simply add defense, it will actively reduce damage and increase Enmity. Frankly, Sentinel wasn't lowering damage all that much for the mere 30s it was lasting. Defender was better on that side.

Rampart will be awesome now, especially if you try to use it right before a mob uses a -ga spell of some sort, if there's no way to stun it.

And It was about time that the Shield actually did something more than reducing the damage. It made little sense to still get interrupted when you did block with the shield. It will be even more useful to skill up your shield with this.

[Slip]

Some interesting and unexpected changes there.

Sentinel and Rampart will become a little trickier to use now I think. Previously I'd toss them out on a regular basis for start of battle hate spiking. Now that they have additional effects it's tempting save them for more tactical uses.

The Shield Mastery change on the other hand is pure love. Against most mobs getting off spells isn't too hard now, but this will give us a shot at getting spells off even against mobs like Chigoes and other hyper fast beasts.

[Rai]

Rampart will be great! How many times have you been in a Pinch and hit invincible only to see, Mob begins casting Thunderga III, lol and you get nuke killed anyways.

I have always thought we deserved a bit more Magic Defense.

[bikkebakke]

*drool*

[Davitron3000]

Paladin Adjustments
With high defensive capabilities and enmity generation in mind, we will be adjusting the effect of the paladin job abilities Sentinel and Rampart.

It seems like they are listening to the player base, and I thank them for that.

Sentinel
The effect of Sentinel will be changed from an increase in defense to straight damage mitigation.
Also, all actions taken while Sentinel is in effect will generate additional enmity, allowing the paladin to more easily gain and maintain an enemy's attention.

I am most excited about this. As I said in another thread, capped Sentinel + capped Guardian would be really nice. So now, with Sentinel up, you will take less damage, gain enmity, and lose less hate if you have Guardian. What is not to like :)

Rampart
In addition to the defense bonus granted to party members within the area of effect, Rampart will now also provide a "Magic Shield" that will absorb a certain amount of magic damage in the same manner as the spell "Stoneskin."

I can't wait to try this out. Magic shield that is like Stoneskin and affects the whole party is what I have been wanting. I have always felt our biggest weakness is magical damage, and this is a boost to defend against it.

Also, I am not sure about this, but does the Valor Coronet increase the duration of Rampart? (from 30 to 45 seconds I think I read, but I don't know if that was misinformation).
If it does I want one more than ever now.

Shield Mastery
In addition to granting a TP bonus, the Shield Mastery job trait will also prevent interruption to spell casting when an enemy's attack is blocked with a shield.

This is good too. Timing your casts has always been a part of playing Paladin, so I don't really rely on shield blocks to get casts off, but hopefully it will help when I do get interrupted.

To say that I am a happy Paladin to see these adjustments are gonna happen would be an understatement.

[Celeal]

As Slip in above post mentioned, I also agreed that Sentinel and Rampart will become tricky to use. Let say after the new adjustment, if a DD got hate, and after Cover ends (after Provoke, Cure, etc) the DD still has hate. Do we toss in Sentinel or Rampart, or reserve them?

IMHO, the change in shield block is very interesting. Maybe there is some usage of size 1 shield again? Let say tanking NM that uses hundred fists, swap in size one shield during the hundred fists just for better chance not to get interrupted?

[FranckKnight]

Well, Sentinel was never really much of a hate grabber in my opinion. Rampart might be because of the Party effect. But if Provoke + Flash + Shield Bash + Warcry doesn't grab the hate back, I'm not sure Sentinel and Rampart would be of much help in that extreme situation.

But I definitly need to go Merit Sentinel now :)

[Davitron3000]

As Slip in above post mentioned, I also agreed that Sentinel and Rampart will become tricky to use. Let say after the batch, if a DD got hate, and after Cover ends (after Provoke, Cure, etc) the DD still has hate. Do we toss in Sentinel or Rampart, or reserve them?
IMHO, the change in shield block is very interesting. Maybe there is some usage of size 1 shield again? Let say tanking NM that uses hundred fists, swap in size one shield during the hundred fists just for better chance not to get interrupted?

I don't know if I will change the way I use Sentinel and Rampart. My number one goal is to keep the mob on me, so if I need them for hate I am going to use them. This may change with Rampart if I see that I can save it and use it before an AOE spell but most of the time I am relying on that to get stunned (in big fights).

Using a smaller shield size for Hundred fists to keep from getting interrupted would be interesting. It would have to really help a lot for me to not use my Keonig Shield though. I block a lot of hits during hundred fists anyways, and the damage reduction on a bigger shield would be the real deciding factor (not to mention the +enmity you would lose). Not sure, someone go test it :P

[Rai]

IMHO, the change in shield block is very interesting. Maybe there is some usage of size 1 shield again? Let say tanking NM that uses hundred fists, swap in size one shield during the hundred fists just for better chance not to get interrupted?

Back in the old Days before the changes to shield skill, a PLD blocked with his shield and
1. Damage was completely negated
2. Blocking while casting a Spell and the spell would not be interrupted.

[FranckKnight]

Back in the old Days before the changes to shield skill, a PLD blocked with his shield and
1. Damage was completely negated
2. Blocking while casting a Spell and the spell would not be interrupted.

Yeah, Shield back then was just another Evasion/Parry. Skilling up shield was alot more tedious, it didn't trigger as often either. I kinda like the new Shield system better.

But of course you don't get interrupted if you don't get damaged, so this makes the best of both worlds. Damage reduction plus no interruption. Smaller shield will definitly will be useful in some fights against faster hitting mobs that makes it tricky to cast spells. Or a PLD that prefers trading off the stability of his Cures over hwo much damage they reduce, there might be a big matter of choice and strategy in this.

[Macht]

As Slip in above post mentioned, I also agreed that Sentinel and Rampart will become tricky to use. Let say after the new adjustment, if a DD got hate, and after Cover ends (after Provoke, Cure, etc) the DD still has hate. Do we toss in Sentinel or Rampart, or reserve them?
IMHO, the change in shield block is very interesting. Maybe there is some usage of size 1 shield again? Let say tanking NM that uses hundred fists, swap in size one shield during the hundred fists just for better chance not to get interrupted?

Solution is that this makes Aegis shield something to desire even more. Last I remember it was a Size 1 shield with the Size 3 defense.

The rampart sounds like they are giving a PLDs that sort of Convoke ability that was pretty common for PLDs in previous FF titles. At least it's half of it couple the right abilities together that PLD has and you get a sort of rigged up equivalent.

Sentinel more fits it's name sake now. Couple with Cover and not only are you protecting the person but building hate to more easily take it away from them. If you have a reason to need to save it for a certain situation then don't forget you could always resort to being a healer dropping cures of the best for hate gain to draw the mob back to you if you need. Seems to give a lot of possibilities of things to try.

The other question I wonder if Sentinel is straight damage mitigation will this mean a potential when coupled with a Size 3 Shield that it might actually negate damage or come close to it?

[Davitron3000]

Solution is that this makes Aegis shield something to desire even more.

Is it possible for Paladins to desire Aegis more?

[Icemage]

Aegis isn't size 1. It's size 5. It blocks a LOT of damage when it kicks in (though I seem to recall reading someplace that it actually blocks like a size 1 for frequency of activation - double win if true; someone please check me on that if you can).


Icemage

[nanatsu]

Eh, I'm not too sure these changes will result in more invites for normal exp. The Sentinel thing seems nice at first glance. But it's still only 30 seconds and on a 5 minute timer right? If they maybe reduced the timer somewhat I could see it changing things. But right now, it all seems rather...situational. The only really nice change is the Shield Mastery thing, but I dunno if that will wow people enough to make them choose plds more in normal exp. Compared to nin, pld still seems lacking in the ability to fight successive battles, though honestly I prefer a good pld over a nin any day. There's nothing I hate more than meleex4/nin. And seeing mnk/nin makes me cry.

[FranckKnight]

Aegis is a Size 5, the only shield that counts as Size 5 because its a completly different category (at least for now).

Aegis basically has the block rate of a size 1 (means ALOT) with the damage reduction of a size 3 or 4 (means ALOT). Add to that the single highest defense in the game for a shield, and -25% Magic Damage, and your PLD turns into a frigging WALL.

So add to that the new magic interruption for shield, Sentinel and Rampart... PLD with Aegis will be scary.

[Armando]

Maybe it's because of my lack of exposure to endgame, but I have no qualms with these changes. I'm just happy to get them. Everyone else has pointed out the usefulness of almost everything, but I just thought of something that made me giddy.

No interruption on shield blocks? Now PLD/RDMs can get off Blink/Stoneskin mid-fight with a bit of luck.

[Rai]

Sentinel
The effect of Sentinel will be changed from an increase in defense to straight damage mitigation.
Also, all actions taken while Sentinel is in effect will generate additional enmity, allowing the paladin to more easily gain and maintain an enemy's attention.

I just thought of this,

Guardian: Reduces enmity loss while using Sentinel

umm, looks like a group 2 Merit ability just became useless. Not that I think any PLD meritted it. Can we get a new one to replace it?

[FranckKnight]

No its not the same, it still works.

Sentinel : Boost enmity for OTHER actions while active. Basically Provoke, Flash and damage will do extra enmity.

Guardian : Reduce enmity loss. When you get hit you lose a degree of enmity that seems to be a ratio of the damage vs max HP (or current HP?) you have. Guardian reduces the Enmity loss.

Basically, put both together and you GAIN MORE and LOSE LESS Enmity at the same time, making it even easier to keep hate.

[Rai]

They are different but they seem to have both been created to solve the same problem. Sentinel and Enmity and maintaining a balance. There is overlap between the two therefore one is not needed.

And booth adress enmity, which is not the real problem with PLD. MP consumption is the real problem.

[lionx]

Really? I am only lvl 51 at the moment with PLD and well..with Auto Refresh and Parade Gorget, and if you add on Refresh alone, you get back a whopping 5MP per tick in general(with no songs or cor rolls). With Regen i didnt have to worry too much about using MP as well...end-gamewise maybe...but since when does it matter as much about MP Consumption anyway when you are a PLD by then? Its gonna hurt just about no matter what except now Sent and Rampart can help that.

I would also expect ToA monsters to not hit so hard...at least the exp ones...but i have no experience with that just yet. However with MP Refresh as good as that...i dont see why MP Consumption is a problem..? I could probably get a DD set and backup heal pretty well if i was to get into a merit pt.

[Khevn]

YES TIME TO GET MY PLD GEAR BACK!!!!



I'm so happy ; ;

[Celeal]

IMHO, MP is not a problem if and only if RDM or COR or BRD is there. What I am trying to say is PLD in traditional exp. setup usually forced into PLD + refresher + healer structure. PLD tank in party missing a refresher or healer would usually having a tough time. No only PLD wants refresh, healer wants refresh too. When we factor in the MP usage for PLD in order to be functional, which includes PLD's MP and healer's MP, it is a significant amount out of entire party's MP consumption.

IMHO, the update is target for PLD endgames.

[Davitron3000]

IMHO, the update is target for PLD endgames.

I would agree with this.

I forget that not everyone does endgame and I tend to look at all updates with a "how can I use this in an HNM fight" mentality.

[Pteryx]

Maybe it's because of my lack of exposure to endgame, but I have no qualms with these changes. I'm just happy to get them. Everyone else has pointed out the usefulness of almost everything, but I just thought of something that made me giddy.

No interruption on shield blocks? Now PLD/RDMs can get off Blink/Stoneskin mid-fight with a bit of luck.

As long as we're talking PLD/RDM, which I've been duoing and trioing with at low levels (I'm up to PLD31 now)... my previous use for Sentinel was a "running out of MP" panic button. The change in Sentinel, however, will completely alter my usage of it to being something I hit at the start of a fight in order to let me strengthen my early hate gain -- maybe I won't have to wait for 37 to be able to get enough early hate to allow my my DRK friend to go all-out! A shame the timer on it is so bloody long...

As for the change to Rampart? About bloody time! Magic defense has been a big weakness of PLD; this doesn't merely plug that hole, but actually gives us a defense against AoE magic that NINs can only dream of! :biggrin: -- Pteryx

[dirtyclown]

Epic win. I can't wait for this update, I'll finally have a reason to use my JAs other than for gaining Hate.

[Raydeus]

Maybe it's because of my lack of exposure to endgame, but I have no qualms with these changes. I'm just happy to get them. Everyone else has pointed out the usefulness of almost everything, but I just thought of something that made me giddy.

No interruption on shield blocks? Now PLD/RDMs can get off Blink/Stoneskin mid-fight with a bit of luck.

For high level stuff I think /nin would work better unless you are fighting monk kinda mobs, in those cases /rdm pwns them because of Phalanx + Bio II (if you don't need to sleep the mob) + Shield + Blaze Spikes because it cuts damage by a lot while dealing some nice extra damage.

Soloing (which I do a lot) going back to no interruption with shield blocks will be a great help, I usually use Flash followed by Stoneskin (Blink isnt worth casting in the middle of a fight) and have a pretty good success rate.

Although there are times when the mob goes through my crappy evasion, and even though the hit gets blocked by the shield and only does 1 damage it would still manage to interrupt me, which really really sucks. :wasted:

Now it's gonna take a lot more for a mob to interrupt you, and the Phalanx effect from Sentinel will boost the potential even more. I just wonder if Sentinel will stack with Phalanx (spell), if it does it's gonna be awesome.

[Loial]

IMHO, the update is target for PLD endgames
I would disagree with that. PLD end-game are fine the way they are. The shield block change months ago + Auto-Refresh is good enough for end-game tanks. The ability to mitigate damage directly with a shield rather than by defense was huge.

I think this stuff is designed to help leveling PLDs... and end-game PLD are going to reap the benefits as well. I can't think of many times when I've said "Gee, I wish I had more hate tools or better hate tools." I can see how these changes will boost a leveling PLD since our ability to keep hate does not scale well versus melee damage in regards to "exp mobs."

But, end-game mobs are not exp mobs and the damage output is much lower. Hence why holding hate is usually a non-issue.

[Celeal]

With the shield-prevent-interrupt update, I am wondering would that make PLD more capable for PLD to solo at mid levels as Sword + Shield and PLD/NIN?

Just to imagine PLD/NIN casting shadows during battle while solo:
1. The shield proc rate of mob range from easy prey to tough
2. Using a size 1 shield on easy prey to tough mob, we can expect even more proc
3. With Flash as backup for casting shadows
4. Evasion + parry on easy prey to tough mob should be decent

With high sword skill and high base STR, the time of battle should not be too long for mob range from easy prey to tough.

If Auto-Refresh and shadows can cut the downtime... that needs to be tested.

On bad situation (link, etc), PLD/NIN can use 2hr and scroll of instant warp.

[Vair]

This is gonna be great.

[JP_Ikari]

Agreed with Loial, I mean we never really needed this update. Maybe the cries of some PLD's were heard by SE. But I'm still iffy on how Sentinel works (gains enmity with any actions you do vs already have enmity upon using it). And I think Loi nailed on the head by saying any end-game PLDs would reap the rewards here far more than some normal joe-PLD that's leveling out there. Sheesh, guess me leaving for 1 month and 1 week made it far more funnier than it should be.

JP