What do Paladin's do wrong?

[DrivenTooFar]

I have a question out there for people who play with Paladins. What are some of the things Paladins do or don't do that make them bad? The reason I am asking this is because a lot of people are impressed with how I play the job. Not only that, but they also run into Paladins that they think are horrible. To me, Paladin is a little challengeing but overall not that hard to play. I don't think I am the best Paladin out there, but many have said that I am one of the better ones.

One thing I do make sure of is that I keep up to date gear. It isn't all +1 stuff but I do make sure that I get good stuff, a lot of which is suggested by the members of this site. I also know how to time my cures and I have a nice cycle with my hate tools. Of course, I think alot of my success is from the excellent parties I usually have and there seems to be a lot of that on Alexander.

So please share your Paladin stories so I can see why people think I do a good job. After all, I pretty much never party with Paladins anymore so I don't know what others are like.

[Jei]

I PT with this one PLD once, after battle, instead of healing, he would be casting Cure 1 (at level 50) until everyone's full health.... wasting a lot of MP. Plus he could have cast cure 2-3 at the begin of battle to grab extra hate instead. -.-

[raidenn]

I knew a japanese player who used a Gsword at Xp parties (level 70s), wears Scorpion Harness and an Optical hat, provokes once in every fight, never uses defender, rampart or cover. Rarely cures himself too.

[Khevn]

This is like opening Pandora's Box. Tank takes a person with reasonable intelligence to play and a desire to be a tank. Some people step into paladin, and at 30-35 when our dmg starts dropping off and our mitigation starts going up they realize they don't want to be a sponge. It takes a specific type of person to be a tank. If you don't desire keeping others alive, and you just want to kill things your already probably going to be a terrible tank. You replace the want of LARGE damage with the need to keep the monster on you at all times no matter how hard that mob gets hit by others. Alot of people get bored with this very fast. It just isn't as "exciting" to other people.

Me I love the paladin. I've always played the tank. In all MMO's, anyone can be a damage whore, but it takes special type of person to be a wall to protect everyone in the party.

Hence, there's alot of terrible tanks.

Lol the nostalgia, Almost makes me want to come back.... anyone need a 75 pld in midgar?

[tdh]

I'd say some PLDs are very needy, and some PLDs seem to carry around all that MP for show.

Some PLDs seems to think their MP is ONLY for Flash. So the fights going right alone and they won't even bother to Cure themselves to stay alive. Some of these guys are managing to keep hate with just damage, Flash and Provoke, others aren't keeping hate for squat and stay right on the edge of dieing.

The needy ones are the one that have macrod "/party Haste plz" and "/party Refresh plz." In the middle of crowd control because of a bad pull, and as soon as their Refresh wears off there goes the "needy macro."

My only other "issue" with PLDs is really a non-issue. PLDs in the late 50's are notorous for "Over tanking." So it makes it difficult for Skillchains with THF set ups. I love when a PLD holds hate so I don't have to hold back, but at the same time I'd like to be able to turn a mob for SATA.

[Khevn]

PLD and thf parties are the funnest, cause they really test your pld skills haha

[tdh]

PLD and thf parties are the funnest, cause they really test your pld skills hahaI agree! I've seen some PLDs who can skirt that fine line like a pro. Always being #1 on the hate list, but allowing somebody to grab hate in instances like that.

Watching a PLD keep just enough hate so a WAR doesn't take hate from their DPS but a Provoke and Mistral Axe is enough to turn the mob so a DRK can Spinning Slash for ~1k is truly a sight to be seen.

[Mhurron]

I have a question out there for people who play with Paladins. What are some of the things Paladins do or don't do that make them bad? Now I could do the obvious and complain about bad tanks I've partied with, but I won't.

Actually, a lot of times when your complimented on your skill, its not that they have had a lot of bad PLD, but just that every good one is a godsend. There are no better parties then one with a tank that knows their job and knows how to use their skills to do it. Most of the time you're being thanked not for doing a better job then others, but just doing a good job in the first place.

Take the compliment and feel good about it, your focus and understanding of your job were noticed and appreciated, but be careful not to let it go to your head :P

-Mhurron, apparently as of yesterday, UberRDM. I promise it won't go to my head.

[Armando]

Hm. This is a toughie. In my opinion, being a PLD/WAR in a traditional EXP party is a very easy role to play. Let's be honest - it doesn't take a genius to Provoke every 30 seconds, Flash every 37, throw some Cure III's around, mash your JA macros when you lose hate, and not use up all your MP. If you can tell that a given Paladin flat out sucks that person probably hasn't got a clue about the game in general, not just the Paladin job. Just about the only habit unique to Paladin that would warrant calling a player a bad Paladin would be going into overhate in a situation in which someone else needs to turn the mob *cough SATA cough*.

Because of that, and the fact that when I'm taking up a job that isn't PLD I'm usually tanking anyways or just soloing, I've hardly had any negative experiences with other Paladins. So, instead of mentioning things you might catch a bad PLD doing, or funny anecdotes of bad parties, I'll mention a few things a good PLD does.

- A good Paladin uses Cover often when he loses hate, and politely negotiates with the DDs so that the whole alignment process runs smoothly.
- A good Paladin can save his JAs by knowing when he's lost hate by only a little, and turning the mob with a Cure, Flash, or Provoke instead.
- A good Paladin understands that losing hate is inevitable.
- A good Paladin understands that shadows are superior to simply taking hits in the face, and shares his tanking duty with the NINs and WAR/NINs, either accidentally or deliberately. That is, a good PLD understands that if the WAR/NIN just took hate, it's better to let him use his shadows and save the healer some MP, than turning the mob immediately and taking those 6 hits himself, and on top of that possibly wasting JAs in order to turn the mob. As a matter of fact, I encourage the WAR/NINs in my parties to turn the mob from time to time.
- A good Paladin doesn't pester the mages for Haste and Refresh; he (or she) asks for it politely, and is grateful when he/she gets them.
- A good Paladin understands why Flash is an incredibly wonderful spell, and encourages White Mages to Flash as much as possible too.
- A good Paladin understands the finer points of hate and targets, and knows how to tank through multiple mobs simultaneously.
- A good Paladin tries to learn as much as possible about the game in general.
- A good Paladin understands that the word "tank" is nothing but a label, and that the Paladin job is a lot more versatile than that. In other words, a good Paladin understands that there's more to it than just whoring VIT and ignoring everything else, and will change his gear according to wether he's fighting VTs or high ITs. On VTs, we can take a much more balanced approach and actually focus on our offense to a certain extenct.
- A good Paladin can line up properly when working with THFs and BRDs/CORs.
- A good Paladin understands that dying first isn't always the smartest option.

Hope that helps :3

[Eauijhkuu]

PLD and thf parties are the funnest, cause they really test your pld skills haha

I hate inferior PLDs.
I static with a kick butt PLD.
But I've partied with ones that should just play other jobs.

Any PLD that loses hate to a BRD, even through SATA, should be SHOT IN THE HEAD.

That's right. I said it. HEADSHOT.

You know that drill we learned in Dunes? The 15 second reminder to VOKE?! It applies well when you're trying to do your job as a PLD...

But yeah. I'm glad I static with a PLD who knows how awesome it is to have a good THF at their disposal. Good PLDs understand that TA is their best friend when keeping hate. Good PLDs also understand that protecting their teammates comes first before anything.

Also. A Good PLD parties with Good Members. Because a Good PLD can't shine with a gimp mage. And a Good Mage can't shine witth a gimp PLD, or a gimp tank for that matter. And a Good THF can't shine with a gimp PLD/DD.

[Cometgreen]

Let's be honest - it doesn't take a genius to Provoke every 30 seconds, Flash every 37, throw some Cure III's around, mash your JA macros when you lose hate, and not use up all your MP.
Yet so many paladins are guilty of this. Granted, it might just be that you remember the really bad paladins, but I've seen quite a few that don't seem to understand why paladins get all those cure spells.

[Loial]

Let's be honest - it doesn't take a genius to Provoke every 30 seconds, Flash every 37, throw some Cure III's around, mash your JA macros when you lose hate, and not use up all your MP.
Yes, but knowing "when" to throw around Cure IV's and use your job abilities makes a difference.

[Kurb]

True but thats what tanks are essentially there for.To take the damage so other players with crap def don't have to.
Unless your talking about a NIN now thats a different story but if they get hit they'll know all about it where as a PLD can simply heal himself if his timing is right.
Personally I had a hard time getting my cures timed off but after lvl 17 it all came to me.......PLD's RULE

[KoukiRyu]

Any PLD that loses hate to a BRD, even through SATA, should be SHOT IN THE HEAD.

Err...you know a BRD could rape hate off a good PLD in a matter of seconds if they tried, right? 2x Mazurka and if he/she was /WAR a voke, and the PLD could only take hate back after Invincible. >_> If you don't believe me, go get a BRD and have them use 2x Mazurka while 2 MNK's pummel a mob and WS it...and see if they take hate for a second. I dunno if you said BRD as a mistake, but I promise you that a BRD is the ultimate hate holder.

Now I wonder how many people are going to wonder if I'm on drugs, or how I came up with these conclusions. If you don't believe me, just go and test it, 2x Mazurka is all the BRD really needs, /WAR is just bonus, but /NIN works even better.

Edit: Sorry I totally changed the topic there...just when I saw him say BRD, I wanted to speak up before he thought about murdering any PLD's for losing hate to BRD's. >_>

[Celeal]

For SATA, sometimes it is hard for PLD to control hate if the SATA~SC opener (who suppose to turn the mob) deal inconsistent damage/hate or overall lack of damage. The situation is worst if we combine a weak SATA~SC opener with a strong BLM, or RNG who is not part of SATA~SC.

It is less chaotic to do SATA~SC at the beginning of fight: TP at 100% before the battle begins. Puller pulls mob to camp, Trick partner gain initially have hate, tank + SATA~SC closer line up, SATA~SC and transfer hate to tank.

In this method, there is no need to turn the mob in the middle of the fight. Tank can increase the hate threshold after the initial SATA~SC, for the DD to go all out and kill the mob ASAP. The trick is to have both SATA and 100% TP ready for next battle.

[Davitron3000]

I find it interesting that a lot of times a tank gets a lot of the blame for a party being bad. Sometimes I think it seems like the tank's fault and it isn't.

For example, my friend was leveling a lower level job in a party with a pld:

Friend: "Man tell this Paladin how to tank. We can't chain because he keeps running out of mp and having to rest."

Me: "How long are your fights?"

Friend: "They are lasting quite a while. I am having trouble hitting the mob, but we are getting a ton of exp per kill, lol"

Me: "..."

Anyways, enjoy the compliment. You will have your good days and sometimes you will have your bad days. I have tanked one day in a party and done great, only to tank the next day in a party and have people say I was n00b. (ever have those days when you just can't seem to time your cures and get interrupted constantly? lol)

[FranckKnight]

Defender becomes very arbitrary after a while, especially when you get int he 60s-70s where it becomes more difficult to keep the hate because of the very high damage dealers, even with PLD AF that has lots of Enmity+. On the other hand, most of them also use Ninja sub, so they can avoid damage for a while.

The problem is with Defender, its only useful if the monster is on you, it becomes counter-productive if the monster isn't since it lowers your attack power. If the monster isn't on you, you want to make more damage, to get a bit more hate between your Provoke/Flash timers. If you find yourself losing hate too often, it might actually be easier to tank without Defender.

So it depends on your teammates in that aspect. If you can keep the monster reliably on you all the time, Defender is great. You'll see this happen more as you get closer to 75, in Merit parties as well. Imps, for example, with their Amnesia and Silence pretty much gimps a PLD down to nothing anyway, so might as well get a little more attack power in those cases.

What it boils down the rest of the time is how well a PLD can keep hate, a smart use of his abilities like Cover and using his Cure spells well.

Side note on Curing, its sometimes difficult for a PLD to cure himself reliably. Some mobs have fast attacks that makes it harder to get a Cure out. In those cases I prefer using Cure right after Flash. Also if you have a WHM that is hard at work, because you need to time your Cures you'll find that often your WHM got his Cure out before you, and that yours heal a sub-par amount, making it wasted MP.

I'd say that PLD is one of the most 'case to case' jobs in the game. Depending on the DD/Curing abilities, skills and attention of your teammates, you might find yourself not suing Cure nor Defender at all, as mentionned, nor be able to keep the monster attacking you all the time. It doesn't make you a bad Tank, people need to realize that Hate Management is a PARTY collaboration, not just the PLD's contribution.

[Kurb]

One of my worst experiences was in Crawlers Nest with a cocky lil' Taru BLM told him to stay back and not to do any "big ass spells" so about really 5 fast fights later forget the exp but it was good he goes on about how he can solo better exp and we argru about his logic:
Fast & safe=Average EXP Vs 1 long hard fight for 200
Eventually I won out and stated that in the time it took to argru this we would of earned 150 EXP minimal.
He got ratty and half way through the fight went out and chained 2 Workers he died and his ls buddy started fighting em too and died leaving me to tank 2.25 mobs with no zone in sight.I died and deleveled but the day was won so yay

[FranckKnight]

Fast & safe=Average EXP Vs 1 long hard fight for 200


That is more or less true.

What a party wants is getting the highest exp that they can handle safely and fast.

Optimally, parties don't want to hit 200 exp mobs, they want NEAR 200, like 175-192 exp per fight. 200 exp usually means that the mob was worth more than 200, but the cap on exp per fight limited it to 200, thus it was harder than its worth.

If there is no mobs that can be relatively safely killed that would give near-200, the best thing is to take mobs that give as much exp without being too hard and with minimum downtime. Resting for a long time between all battles isn't a good sign.

[Celeal]

That is more or less true.

What a party wants is getting the highest exp that they can handle safely and fast.

Optimally, parties don't want to hit 200 exp mobs, they want NEAR 200, like 175-192 exp per fight. 200 exp usually means that the mob was worth more than 200, but the cap on exp per fight limited it to 200, thus it was harder than its worth.

If there is no mobs that can be relatively safely killed that would give near-200, the best thing is to take mobs that give as much exp without being too hard and with minimum downtime. Resting for a long time between all battles isn't a good sign.

Everyone in the party need to be very good at their job in order to chain 5 for mob that gives 170+ exp, especially for camps in pre-ToAU area. If you are tanking in those rare and precious parties, be prepare to lose hate ^^; Those parties will have great puller and insane DDs. :P

[Eauijhkuu]

I dunno if you said BRD as a mistake, but I promise you that a BRD is the ultimate hate holder.


I usually mean what I say. With purpose. And Semiotic irony.

Even if this PLD lost hate to a BRD Cyclone WS. (HEAD. SHOT.)
Had the PLD voked whenever his recast timer was up,
With the help of THF's TA.
If he even so much as flashed the mob during that entire party.
I find it hard to believe that a BRD will grab hate from a 'good' PLD. Even if you did sub WAR.

And that is why I love the PLD I static with;
I can basically land an SATA to begin with, and then SATA+WS on a DD, and hate won't flinch. Same with SATA+WS on PLD for closing SCs. That is the safest way for a BLM to ever use AM as a burst.

And I'll bet my gil on that.
A good PLD understands how valuable real hate control is.

[FranckKnight]

Everyone in the party need to be very good at their job in order to chain 5 for mob that gives 170+ exp, especially for camps in pre-ToAU area. If you are tanking in those rare and precious parties, be prepare to lose hate ^^; Those parties will have great puller and insane DDs. :P

That's why I said 'optimally'. In reality you almost never see a chain 5 until ToAU, or rather level 50s, because I did see chains before ToAU was out. ToAU just made it ridicuously easier to do. Its more normal to see Chain 1-3 in the levels 30-50 that are worth near 200. Chain 4-5 is more rare.

Optimally you want mobs that don't go over 200 exp, so that you don't waste effort over exp lost because of the exp cap per fight, that's all I meant. Since every IT monster will check as IT no matter if they are 10 or 20 levels over you, getting exactly 200 exp mobs is hard to judge. Once you find a good camp with mobs near 200, you should keep it simply.

[Celeal]

That's why I said 'optimally'. In reality you almost never see a chain 5 until ToAU, or rather level 50s, because I did see chains before ToAU was out. ToAU just made it ridicuously easier to do. Its more normal to see Chain 1-3 in the levels 30-50 that are worth near 200. Chain 4-5 is more rare.

Optimally you want mobs that don't go over 200 exp, so that you don't waste effort over exp lost because of the exp cap per fight, that's all I meant. Since every IT monster will check as IT no matter if they are 10 or 20 levels over you, getting exactly 200 exp mobs is hard to judge. Once you find a good camp with mobs near 200, you should keep it simply.

I agree with you :)

The mob's level and the type of mob is an consideration too. IT Lesser Colbri (Spelling) in ToAU is a lot easier than IT Robber Carb in Cap of Terrgain, even if both give near 200 exp for level 56 party. It is sux for trying to kill the Carb that buff every 10 seconds, while we don't even need to eat food to kill Lesser Colbri :P

Once the issue of hate and downtime is solved, the xp is determined by how fast can the party kill the mob~

[FranckKnight]

I agree with you :)
The mob's level and the type of mob is an consideration too. IT Lesser Colbri (Spelling) in ToAU is a lot easier than IT Robber Carb in Cap of Terrgain, even if both give near 200 exp for level 56 party. It is sux for trying to kill the Carb that buff every 10 seconds, while we don't even need to eat food to kill Lesser Colbri :P
Once the issue of hate and downtime is solved, the xp is determined by how fast can the party kill the mob~

Its the same reason why we kill Lizards for example in the dunes, rather thatn Goblins that roam the same area. At that level Lizard's main move is Poison, which is easily dealt with.

Goblins on the other hand go boom, and level 10-15 those are mortal. Sure they suicide, but that's an off chance that you cannot count on. You'll pat yourself on the back when it happens when the party is in bad shape, but that's it.

Goblins are to be considered like the Damselflys at that point, Cursed Sphere can do a number on the party.

That's why we have 'prime leveling spots' that are compromised of the same mobs usually. Those mobs have been targetted as the easiest to kill at that particular level.

Why do people go to the Jungles when there are mobs for level 25-32 elsewhere? Because Mandragoras have a reputation of being squishy and relatively weak in attack power, despite their perma-double attack.

Why do people go to ToAU once they reach some point in the 50s? Because mobs like Colibris are squishy and have no dangerous moves beside eating your food effect and your TP, which on a decent tank doesn't matter whatsoever.

Why do every 70+ parties try to camp on top of each other in Caedarva Mire for Imps? Because despite giving Amnesia and Silence status, they are killed on normal attacks alone effortlessly. Low defense = Fast Kill = High Chains.

The type of mob is also more or less determined by the party setup. Have you ever tried to tank those Mandragoras as a Ninja? Ugh, I hate the jungles. It takes barely two rounds to take the Shadows down. That's why I prefer PLD in many ways.

But when we killed Goblins, two Ninjas tanking together aws amazing to watch. WHm only had to cast Regen once in a while, and a Curaga here and there for the occasional Bomb damage, the rest of the time the Goblins were completly tied up.

[IfritnoItazura]

In reality you almost never see a chain 5 until ToAU, or rather level 50s, because I did see chains before ToAU was out.

Um... huh?

Anyway, under Lv.50, even with slightly unbalanced group, chain #5 isn't that hard if the party isn't over hunting or competing for monsters with others. My static of PLD, BLU, SAM, RDM, BRD, WHM gets a healthy mix of chain #4 and #5, despite having only two damage dealers in party.

Lv.38-43 Misareaux Coast (Bigclaw/Makara)
Lv.43-46 Labyrinth of Onzozo (Cockatrice)
Lv.46-50 Garlaige Citadel (Funnel Bats/Chamber Beetle)

Those are the places where we exp'ed lately; the hardest to chain location was Garlaige Citadel, because of the competition for monsters.

Note: A good puller is incredibly important for chains; we, er, forced a career WHM to pull on SAM for us, and as he got better, our chains went longer. Now, he's pretty much the best puller I've ever had.

* * *

Good Paladins keep monsters from clubbering other party members, especially the half-sized, soft belly mages. And, they do that while not creating long downtime. Who cares how they do that as long as they do? <_<;

Bad Paladins... hmm. I remember a few who:
- Use very outdated armor, claiming poverty.
- Use DD or random gear while eating meat mithkabob.
- Do not use MP or job abilities; 'voke only.
- Use too much MP and does not rest.

Usually, the bad ones I've had do at least one of the above, and usually more than one. The end result is that either the mages have to cure dump on them, or everyone else in the party.


* * *

I lied about not caring how good PLD do what they do... The SAM in my perma is now doing so much damage on Berserk + Tachi: Jinpu, that I'm have a great deal of difficulty keeping the monsters off him afterwards. Still working on how to solve that one; I want to be one of the good Paladins... :worry:

[Celeal]

Hell yea, after the introduction of Hasso, I think SAM's hate is on the same level as MNK now ^^; Wait until Tachi: Yukikaze, you will feel the hate even more, kekekeke :D

Seigan + Third Eye is very nice, btw. it is like a mini Utsusemi: Ichi ^^b

[Armando]

I find it hard to believe that a BRD will grab hate from a 'good' PLD. Even if you did sub WAR.I know it's not a real EXP situation, but KoukiRyu does have a point about Mazurka. I've read of BRD/NINs generating enough hate to successfully tank some HNMs simply because of Raptor and Chocobo Mazurka. I haven't seen it first-hand but I wouldn't doubt that if a BRD really wanted to show off and be stupid, he/she could rip hate off of a PLD. Other than that, I have to agree; under normal EXP party circumstances, a good PLD shouldn't have trouble holding hate against a BRD.
I lied about not caring how good PLD do what they do... The SAM in my perma is now doing so much damage on Berserk + Tachi: Jinpu, that I'm have a great deal of difficulty keeping the monsters off him afterwards. Still working on how to solve that one; I want to be one of the good Paladins... I hear good things about Hasso + Third Eye, though I haven't seen that in action either. In any case, if it's as good as I hear, don't worry too much if your SAM buddy grabs hate, as long as you don't take too long to get it back. After all, the enhanced Third Eye is strongest when it's just been used. In any case, aside from Cover, try to coordinate so your and/or the WHM's Flash will be ready shortly after he uses his WS to buy time as well. Also, remember that if you have TP, while it often isn't enough on its own, using your WS for hate is a good way to tip the scales in your favor. If a hit does sneak through, take advantage of it and toss the SAM a Cure III.

Best-case scenario the SAM's Third Eye absorbs at least two attacks, you Cover for 15 secs, Flash the mob for 12-13 secs of nearly guaranteed misses, then the WHM does too, and you're looking at over 40 secs of the SAM not taking any damage. And by then the SAM's Third Eye would be ready again, for another 2-3 hits absorbed. In a realistic scenario you won't use all of those, but at the very least one of those tools (aside from Hasso/Third Eye, which should be ready almost all the time) should be available to buy time. Plus, your BLU could also toss out a few Head Butts. And if all else fails, throw out Shield Bash or Sentinel :3

You know, I'd kill to have a static like yours.

[KoukiRyu]

I usually mean what I say. With purpose. And Semiotic irony.

Even if this PLD lost hate to a BRD Cyclone WS. (HEAD. SHOT.)
Had the PLD voked whenever his recast timer was up,
With the help of THF's TA.
If he even so much as flashed the mob during that entire party.
I find it hard to believe that a BRD will grab hate from a 'good' PLD. Even if you did sub WAR.

I'll bet all the gil you have that a BRD using 2x Mazurka will steal hate from the best PLD's. But I didn't know you meant a BRD that was attacking, that's where I misunderstood, so sorry about that...any PLD that loses hate to that, does deserve a head shot. Using both Mazurka though, a crappy BRD will steal hate, regardless of their subs. :x

[Kurb]

wow well as far as I can remember I was pretty good at managing hate but when another job usually a DD link MNK pulled out raging fists or whatever it's called I lost hate.But I always seemed to get it back.

[Davitron3000]

I'll bet all the gil you have that a BRD using 2x Mazurka will steal hate from the best PLD's. But I didn't know you meant a BRD that was attacking, that's where I misunderstood, so sorry about that...any PLD that loses hate to that, does deserve a head shot. Using both Mazurka though, a crappy BRD will steal hate, regardless of their subs. :x

*maybe off topic* Does the Mazurka have to land on a lot of people for it to generate a lot of hate? I have seen it in action and I have seen the amount of hate it can get in a short amount of time, but I was just wondering how exactly it works.

If it doesn't land on the party is it really weak?

[Raydeus]

*maybe off topic* Does the Mazurka have to land on a lot of people for it to generate a lot of hate? I have seen it in action and I have seen the amount of hate it can get in a short amount of time, but I was just wondering how exactly it works.

If it doesn't land on the party is it really weak?

I think Mazurka works the same way Warcry does in that the more people it hits the more hate you get on you. Not sure about it but from what I've seen it does seem that way.



PS > I thanked Armando because that's the best looking avatar I've seen in a long time. Can you share the full pic? (Please) :biggrin:

[Rai]

Hm. This is a toughie. In my opinion, being a PLD/WAR in a traditional EXP party is a very easy role to play. Let's be honest - it doesn't take a genius to Provoke every 30 seconds, Flash every 37, throw some Cure III's around, mash your JA macros when you lose hate, and not use up all your MP. If you can tell that a given Paladin flat out sucks that person probably hasn't got a clue about the game in general, not just the Paladin job. Just about the only habit unique to Paladin that would warrant calling a player a bad Paladin would be going into overhate in a situation in which someone else needs to turn the mob *cough SATA cough*.
Because of that, and the fact that when I'm taking up a job that isn't PLD I'm usually tanking anyways or just soloing, I've hardly had any negative experiences with other Paladins. So, instead of mentioning things you might catch a bad PLD doing, or funny anecdotes of bad parties, I'll mention a few things a good PLD does.
- A good Paladin uses Cover often when he loses hate, and politely negotiates with the DDs so that the whole alignment process runs smoothly.
- A good Paladin can save his JAs by knowing when he's lost hate by only a little, and turning the mob with a Cure, Flash, or Provoke instead.
- A good Paladin understands that losing hate is inevitable.
- A good Paladin understands that shadows are superior to simply taking hits in the face, and shares his tanking duty with the NINs and WAR/NINs, either accidentally or deliberately. That is, a good PLD understands that if the WAR/NIN just took hate, it's better to let him use his shadows and save the healer some MP, than turning the mob immediately and taking those 6 hits himself, and on top of that possibly wasting JAs in order to turn the mob. As a matter of fact, I encourage the WAR/NINs in my parties to turn the mob from time to time.
- A good Paladin doesn't pester the mages for Haste and Refresh; he (or she) asks for it politely, and is grateful when he/she gets them.
- A good Paladin understands why Flash is an incredibly wonderful spell, and encourages White Mages to Flash as much as possible too.
- A good Paladin understands the finer points of hate and targets, and knows how to tank through multiple mobs simultaneously.
- A good Paladin tries to learn as much as possible about the game in general.
- A good Paladin understands that the word "tank" is nothing but a label, and that the Paladin job is a lot more versatile than that. In other words, a good Paladin understands that there's more to it than just whoring VIT and ignoring everything else, and will change his gear according to wether he's fighting VTs or high ITs. On VTs, we can take a much more balanced approach and actually focus on our offense to a certain extenct.
- A good Paladin can line up properly when working with THFs and BRDs/CORs.
- A good Paladin understands that dying first isn't always the smartest option.
Hope that helps :3

You make a couple good points. But a couple points are entirely out in left field.

I leveled PLD before the RNG nerf, before the changes to shield skill, so I feel a lot of PLDs have it a bit easy now.

"A good Paladin understands that shadows are superior to simply taking hits in the face, and shares his tanking duty with the NINs and WAR/NINs, either accidentally or deliberately. That is, a good PLD understands that if the WAR/NIN just took hate, it's better to let him use his shadows and save the healer some MP, than turning the mob immediately and taking those 6 hits himself, and on top of that possibly wasting JAs in order to turn the mob. As a matter of fact, I encourage the WAR/NINs in my parties to turn the mob from time to time."

As far as NIN goes, past lvl 37 a party needs 1 tank. As a PLD I refused invites to parties that expected me to dual tank with a NIN and I have refuesed invites to parties as a NIN where I was told there was a PLD. There are other people seeking so make a proper party and let the NIN deal with being a Tank on his own and you do the same.

"- A good Paladin doesn't pester the mages for Haste and Refresh; he (or she) asks for it politely, and is grateful when he/she gets them."

Everyone in a party pulls their own weight! RDMs refresh the PLD, that's part of their job, either the RDM or the WHM haste the tank that is pasrt of their job. Do PLDs get a thank you everytime they voke or flash?

And a good PLD recognizes when a THF is slow on his SATA and the 1st voker takes a huge pounding. As a PLD that was my most annoying and aggrivating situation. The 1st voker getting hammered because of a slow THF waiting on a little TP to SATA WS instead of just SATA. When a 1st voker is getting to orange HP I voke and then I have to listen to a THF bitch and moan I blew the SATA. Damn straight I did and I'll do it over and over again if you don't do it fast.

Several times I even told the THF go ahead and SATA onto the 1st voker and SC I'll get hate back. And I always did.

Every PLD out there who strives to be the best they can be has been told they are the greatest PLD by other players. I can't even count the number of times I have been told that by RNGs or BLMs who could not believe I held hate through massive damage or got hate back so quickly after massive damage.

There are poor players leveling all jobs, they just stick out more when they level PLD or NIN.

[Keon]

I am a Taru PLD and feel we have the best advantage of holding hate above all. Our large MP pool gives a great edge with the hate building spells we have in our arsenal. MP is where I have concerns with the last few PLD I have partied with while leveling my RDM. I have noticed a trend of PLD not resting between pulls and watching their MP almost depeleted when the next wave begins. I always drop a tell to ask what their logic is behind not resting and I always get the same answer, "Want to save TP". To me this is unacceptable. For PLD our MP, not TP, is the core of holding hate. I always considered resting between mobs a must even with a RDM or BRD. When you don't you quickly become a burden on the healer(s) and even worse,you become a ineffective tank. Spirits Within is nice to use due to the fact the PLD does real damage. You have to see the bigger picture of being a PLD, we are there to recieve the pain, not give it. If you want to rely on WS to hold hate then you should think about switching to NIN.

[Rai]

There comes a point where depending on party make up and the prey you are fighting where your tactics must adapt to the situation. Yes PLD needs MP to keep hate but a couple extra ticks in the few seconds it takes to pull in some zones is hardly worth the effort. And certainly not worth switching to Dark Staff and dumping TP.

I partied with a SAM who was a friend a great deal and Swift Blade -> Tachi Gekko = Darkness + MB and we (the party) would destroy Mobs fast.

And as for race, no race has and advantage in keeping hate over player skill. No one in the world can tell me a Taru PLD has an advantage over me in keeping hate based on their MP that trumps my skill that is BS. Sure there may be more skilled players than me but they could be of any race.

[Keon]

Very true about adjusting to all situations. My examples were during time spans when the PLD could have regained a good amount of mp between pulls. I should have noted that.
I agree that player skill plays a large role in how we hold hate. With that being said I can also say that race does play a role in this equation as well. The extra MP can the difference between life or death as well as limited down-time. At the beginning of a exp chain there is no question that race has no effect on player skill. I am referring to when your chain is at three and the next pull is coming up. See which race can do a better job retaining hate without eating all your mages mp to keep you alive.

[Davitron3000]

I am a Taru PLD and feel we have the best advantage of holding hate above all. Our large MP pool gives a great edge with the hate building spells we have in our arsenal. MP is where I have concerns with the last few PLD I have partied with while leveling my RDM. I have noticed a trend of PLD not resting between pulls and watching their MP almost depeleted when the next wave begins. I always drop a tell to ask what their logic is behind not resting and I always get the same answer, "Want to save TP". To me this is unacceptable. For PLD our MP, not TP, is the core of holding hate. I always considered resting between mobs a must even with a RDM or BRD. When you don't you quickly become a burden on the healer(s) and even worse,you become a ineffective tank. Spirits Within is nice to use due to the fact the PLD does real damage. You have to see the bigger picture of being a PLD, we are there to recieve the pain, not give it. If you want to rely on WS to hold hate then you should think about switching to NIN.

Sorry, I just don't think that is true. There is more than one way to be an effective tank. Also, as a Galka I have a limited mp pool, but I rarely had to rest post 41 (refresh) and I did rely on some damage to help me hold hate.

There comes a point where depending on party make up and the prey you are fighting where your tactics must adapt to the situation. Yes PLD needs MP to keep hate but a couple extra ticks in the few seconds it takes to pull in some zones is hardly worth the effort. And certainly not worth switching to Dark Staff and dumping TP.
I partied with a SAM who was a friend a great deal and Swift Blade -> Tachi Gekko = Darkness + MB and we (the party) would destroy Mobs fast.
And as for race, no race has and advantage in keeping hate over player skill. No one in the world can tell me a Taru PLD has an advantage over me in keeping hate based on their MP that trumps my skill that is BS. Sure there may be more skilled players than me but they could be of any race.

QFT.

I feel I can hold hate as well any other race of Paladin regardless of my mp pool. I am not saying that a big mp pool isn't a good thing, but I don't think that is the only thing that goes into being able to hold hate well.

[FranckKnight]

Remember that Hate is gained and loss the same for all races.

Gain hate :
-Doing Damage (Advantage Elvaan and Galka)
-Provoke (Same for all)
-Flash (More MP for Tarus, but still the same recast time anyway)
-Curing (Advantage to Tarus for MP, Elvaan for MND)

Lose Hate :
-Getting damaged by the mob
---> This means higher Vit = less damage = Less hate loss. Which means that Galka have the advantage.
-Hate reset moves
-Hate loss over time

So if you take it race by race :

Galka/Elvaan : More Vit means less Hate loss. Less MP means "potential" less Hate gain. Less damage = Less need for Cures, which balances the need for MP.

Tarus : Less HP and Vit means they need to Cure themselves more often, which balances their higher MP pool.

Hume : Balance of Vit, HP and MP.

Mithra : More or less Hume, with slightly more Agi, thus slightly better evasion, which offsets the slightly lower Vit.

This is a very 'quick and dirty' list, but you get the point. I don't believe that any race are better at PLD, just different approaches to the 'same problem'. Tarus will be often seen trading their MP for more HP, doesn't that counter the whole 'Tarus have more MP' point? Even if they do that, they still have lower Vit anyway.

[Keon]

Sorry, I just don't think that is true. There is more than one way to be an effective tank. Also, as a Galka I have a limited mp pool, but I rarely had to rest post 41 (refresh) and I did rely on some damage to help me hold hate.



QFT.

I feel I can hold hate as well any other race of Paladin regardless of my mp pool. I am not saying that a big mp pool isn't a good thing, but I don't think that is the only thing that goes into being able to hold hate well.

I agree that you can hold hate well without a large MP pool and that it is not the only thing that plays into holding hate. I never contested this.
What I am saying is over longer periods of time (chains) the races with smaller mp pools can have problems keeping up without resting to be just as effective. The majority of our hate comes from spells which use MP.

[Rai]

Skill is greater than all other things.

I am sure there are others who may have greater skill and better gear, but I always try my best to do my job and I take it seriously.

The extra MP can the difference between life or death as well as limited down-time.

Extra HP can too.

I am referring to when your chain is at three and the next pull is coming up. See which race can do a better job retaining hate without eating all your mages mp to keep you alive.

3, I had no problems with getting to chain 5 and 6 consistently as an Elvaan PLD and it is often the puller who'd make of break how far we got not my MP or the Mages MP.

With my VIT and HP I was able to tank up to 3 mobs when a puller linked and mages could not sleep the adds. And again as far as hate goes, I pissed off many THFs when I would tell them PLDs don't need THFs and would have them SATA + WS onto a DD and the mob would either not even turn or turn back to me on my next voke.

So again if you think you somehow have an advantage with hate as a Taru PLD you are merely feeding yourself a falsehood in compensation for the natural drawbacks a Taru PLDs has with their low VIT, HP, STR.

Stop deluding yourself and misleading others. Any race can be a good PLD, but it's the player that makes a great PLD.

what does QFT mean?

[Keon]

Tarus will be often seen trading their MP for more HP, doesn't that counter the whole 'Tarus have more MP' point? Even if they do that, they still have lower Vit anyway.

Tarus who swap MP for HP need a lesson playing the Taru PLD. I always used VIT, AGI, and Enmity gear.

[Rai]

You are what lvl PLD?

[Davitron3000]

Lose Hate :
-Getting damaged by the mob
---> This means higher Vit = less damage = Less hate loss. Which means that Galka have the advantage.
-Hate reset moves
-Hate loss over time


Don't forget about this in addition to vit - (from another thread)
One thing we shouldn't forget is that when we get hit, hate is lost based on the damage taken/your HP ratio, so the more HP you have, the less hate is lost, thus helping w/ enmity.

================================================== ============

what does QFT mean?

QFT = Quoted for Truth.

[Celeal]

IMHO, it is about how fast the PLD (plus his party support) use his MP vs. how fast the PLD (and his party support) can recover the MP being used. The maximum MP of PLD is not necessary the deciding factor.

If the PLD (and his party support) can break even his MP usage and recovery, while generating enough hate at the same time, then it is efficient.

Enough MP means enough.

[Keon]

Differences are the joy of this game my friend. This is a matter of opinion. There is nothing false about my posts. I never said that the others races were bad at holding hate or that player skill wasn't a factor. I feel the MP gives the Taru an advantage. I would glady take my lower VIT, HP, and STR for the higher MP, AGI, and DEX. It is much easier to replace the VIT/STR without defense loss through gear then MP.

With my VIT and HP I was able to tank up to 3 mobs when a puller linked and mages could not sleep the adds. And again as far as hate goes, I pissed off many THFs when I would tell them PLDs don't need THFs and would have them SATA + WS onto a DD and the mob would either not even turn or turn back to me on my next voke.

I also have taken mutiple mobs and walked away. It it not a difficult situation to handle by a good PLD. Same goes for the THF and the SATA.

[Rai]

thanks, Davitron3000.

I believe any race can do any job well and the defining factor for greatness comes from the player.

I do not consider myself the greatest PLD. I do not even consider Elvaan to be the greatest PLDs. I know my strengths and I know my weaknesses.

There are always going to be those who know more than me, who have done more than me. I can only strive to do my best.

[Keon]

Don't hate me because I am perfect. Just kidding on that. Seriously, all races make good PLD. When it comes down to it you have to play to establish your own opinion. May we all kick ass and hold hate in our future parties.

/salute

[massaranger]

Theres a reason why cure IV has more hate than Cure V ^^

[Armando]

As far as NIN goes, past lvl 37 a party needs 1 tank. As a PLD I refused invites to parties that expected me to dual tank with a NIN and I have refuesed invites to parties as a NIN where I was told there was a PLD. There are other people seeking so make a proper party and let the NIN deal with being a Tank on his own and you do the same.I didn't mean that part in the context of dual tanking (which isn't really such a bad thing, at least for me) but in the context of DD'ing. I mention NINs because while most NINs are content with their roles, there's always a handful of NINs that would rather be DD'ing. And it's not like they don't make good DDs when geared for it, either. I basically meant that if you're partying with a DD that has the means to mitigate damage well, then there's no reason to be in a rush to get the mob off of him/her immediately.Everyone in a party pulls their own weight! RDMs refresh the PLD, that's part of their job, either the RDM or the WHM haste the tank that is pasrt of their job. Do PLDs get a thank you everytime they voke or flash?Should've worded that better, too. I meant it in the context of common courtesy. Some PLDs like to go "zOMG REFRESH NOW!1." Sure, we don't get thanked every time we Provoke or Flash (just like I don't thank RDMs and WHMs every time they throw a Refresh/Haste at me) but good party members don't go "OH NOES PLZ TURN THE MOB" every time we lose hate either. I agree with you, though, Refreshing and Hasting us is part of their job and it's expected of them. That doesn't make me any less happy to have those things cast on me, though :3

And a good PLD recognizes when a THF is slow on his SATA and the 1st voker takes a huge pounding. As a PLD that was my most annoying and aggrivating situation. The 1st voker getting hammered because of a slow THF waiting on a little TP to SATA WS instead of just SATA. When a 1st voker is getting to orange HP I voke and then I have to listen to a THF bitch and moan I blew the SATA. Damn straight I did and I'll do it over and over again if you don't do it fast.
Several times I even told the THF go ahead and SATA onto the 1st voker and SC I'll get hate back. And I always did.Very true. In situations like those I usually resort to Flash first (since it buys time without necessarily turning the mob) but I often get hate anyways D: Partying with good THFs is always a godsend though. I don't even need to use my MP to hold hate usually XD
PS > I thanked Armando because that's the best looking avatar I've seen in a long time. Can you share the full pic? (Please)Haha, thanks. I figured that after three years it was about time I made one, and then I saw that the maximum size was 105 x 300 and went "Hmm... >3" Anyways, here you go:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/1162487225929.jpg

P.S. What tags do I use to make those nifty little drop-down boxes people use to hide their images and spoilers in?

[Celeal]

nice pic Armando ^o^!

[Vyuru]

I am officially hijacking this thread.

That is an awesome picture, where did you find it?

[Armando]

Haha, thanks ^^ It's my favorite out of the ones I have. I found it on 4chan in Anime & Manga. It's funny because it started as a Saber (from Fate/Stay Night) thread but it got hijacked into an Agrias thread. I did manage to stumble upon an Agrias thread in Anime/Cute before that as well. One of the pics even has Meliadoul (fanart of her is soooooo hard to find.)

If there's a unanymous agreement to temporarily hijack the thread I guess I could post the other stuff. Although I'd still like to know how to make those nifty open/close boxes D:

[Vyuru]

Ohhh, Agrias and Princess Ovellia or whatever her name is, I thought they looked familiar. 4chan huh? I'll have to check them out. I like good fanart like what you have.

And by all means, please either hijack the thread for a little bit or make a new thread =^.^=

[eva00r]

Any PLD that loses hate to a BRD, even through SATA, should be SHOT IN THE HEAD.

That's right. I said it. HEADSHOT.

Are you crazy ? BRDs can pull hate from a PLD within 4 loop of Mazurkas. The most hate generating job in this game isn't a PLD. It's a BRD. Each Mazurka is comparable to 1/2 Invincible.

Right now there are a lot of LS who are using BRD/NINs as a sub-tank to Fafnir.

[Lmnop]

I thought I knew how to make a spoiler as I've done so in the past but apparently I hath forgotten...

Bard does have rediculous hate holding, it's true. But the only time a BRD would get hate like that is if they're trying. And that means they need shot in the head if it's exp. Also, this Mazurka issue is one that I feel needs fixed. It's bad enough that BRDs are the best buffers in the game and the best Crowd Control, mazurka makes them good tanks as well as swell kiters (hello giant hate boost and movement speed+).
All races are good at PLD. I used to feel that Mithra were actually the worst, since they had the same lower VIT as taru but none of the MP, nor the advantages of Hume. However, Shield Block updates and the fact that I now feel a good PLD remembers his damage potential have made me rethink that. So yeah, no more race debate please.
Paladins and their fetishes to never lose hate often cause bad effects. Like PLD knowing that monk and I are about to SC, so he pops 2-3 JAs right before I go. He only needed 1. but that would risk the mob turning for a swing or *gasp* 2.

[Armando]

Well, since there were no objections: Thread officially temporarily hijacked. Here comes the first wave!
A rather sheepish-looking Agrias holds a two-handed sword. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162469775050.jpg)
Saber and Agrias side by side. The resemblance is amazing. Also, love the use of pastels in this. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162477680620.jpg)
A more serious-looking Agrias holding a sword with a Chibi Ovelia plushie attached to the pommel's ring. How cute! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162485891229.jpg)
Agrias prepares to draw her sword in battle. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162486003837.png)
Meliadoul and Agrias stand back-to-back looking at the viewer. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162486065282.jpg)
4chan huh? I'll have to check them out.I have to warn you, 4chan is like the internet >.> You'll find lots of really awesome stuff, and stuff you wish you hadn't seen XD It's an image board site divided into many boards. Many are worksafe, some aren't. I get most of my fanart from /a/ (Anime & Manga) and /c/ (Anime/Cute). I should warn you about /b/ (Random), though. /b/ is NEVER worksafe. You'll find lots of hillarious pictures such as this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/1161875344568.jpg) and this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/1144010871406.jpg[url), but people also use it to post random pics of porn and stuff. Also keep in mind that nothing - and I do mean nothing - is sacred in /b/, and nothing is to be taken seriously. A lot of the things you find in /b/ are funny, but would offend a lot of people (racial jokes are a favorite there, but don't be surprised if you find pics joking about Hitler, 9/11, or the KKK.)

Still, some of the things (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/1158276416942.jpg) you find there really are priceless (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/1158531485226.png), espcially the motivational posters (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/1158868871596.jpg). /b/ is also where a lot of memes come from, like the whole Desu (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/1161231043968.jpg) thing among other things. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/1161318351882.jpg) Also, people in /b/ love Azumanga Daioh (especially Yomi.) Saturdays are officially Caturday in /b/, and I should warn you that Friday is considered "Furry Friday." I also saw a Tomo Tuesday once, I very much enjoyed it XD You have been warned!

Also, the GIFs board isn't worksafe. You'd THINK it's worksafe, but people often post small, compressed porn clips, so...yeah. And no, the Sexy Beautiful Women board isn't worksafe either. In case you're not familiar with the terms, Yuri = lesbian hentai, Yaoi = gay hentai, and Ecchi is like softcore hentai. Also, the Hentai board is awesome if you're into that, but I should warn you against going into Hentai/Alternative. Every once in a while you may find a nice Catgirl thread or something, but 99% of the time it's just reeeeeeally weird stuff you wish you had never seen. I wouldn't recommend going into it unless you have some REALLY extreme tastes, or you're absurdly curious and have a very strong mind. Odds are even if curiosity gets the best of you, you won't want to go back in there.

Oh, yeah, Comics/Cartoons is the place to go to find awesome pics of American cartoons and comic book series. I've also found some very cool stuff (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/1146262204374.jpg) in Origami & Papercraft. I think that's all you should know >.>

[Vyuru]

Ecchi is like softcore hentai
Heh, I didn't notice the little ecchi word under my cursor when I clicked on the E category I was looking for Escaflowne fanart, I swear! My first thought was =o.0= followed by, "damn, nice nurse pic"

And no, the Sexy Beautiful Women board isn't worksafe either.

Depends on the job! :thumbsup:

I'll have to look at it at the university computers, it's not exactly home/little sister friendly :worry:

Now I just have to hope that monday isn't the day when the university brings in all the little kiddies to show them where the big kids go to school ^^;


On another note I found this little avatar over on the rpgamer website! :love:

[Kurb]

Don't hate me because I am perfect. Just kidding on that. Seriously, all races make good PLD. When it comes down to it you have to play to establish your own opinion. May we all kick ass and hold hate in our future parties.

/salute

I agree with this all races do make good PLD's. But this beeing said in a party a PLD is only as good as his/her healer.A PLD may be able to heal itself but its there to take hate so it's magic wil be drained using cures and flashes.Therefore your healer's abilities will be needed.
Although the best way around this is to have a 2 PLD & RED party this I have found is great if you cannot find a WHM.1 PLD tanks as per normal the other PLD uses low lvl cures and high lvl protects.Red refreshes PLDs and helps heal.Ten the PLD's switch ....this I find is a great way to SC ever since the auto refresh option was given to the PLD job and serves me well espically in Kuftall tunnel.But i'm curious to know has anyone els tried this with success

[IfritnoItazura]

I agree with this all races do make good PLD's. But this beeing said in a party a PLD is only as good as his/her healer.

It depends; with RDM and BRD both in party, sometimes a PLD only needs a regen, some status removal -na's, and a few cures. I've played as RDM in that configuration in my static party before it broke, and on many occasions I skilled up elemental magic to pass time becase there were no need to cast cure for long stretches.


Although the best way around this is to have a 2 PLD & RED party this I have found is great if you cannot find a WHM.

This sounds interesting; what kind of food would the PLD use? Do they shift to more DD gear setup, or do both PLD's still rely on traditional defense food and gear?

[FranckKnight]

Difference between Ecchi and Hentai is mostly by the amount of 'perversion' if you want. Ecchi will have cute girls in naughty outfits or nude, but ecchi will have the sex proper. You might like Hentai to Doujins, and Ecchi to to let's say Playboy magazine.

In that manner, I usually look into Ecchi before Hentai for pictures because they are alot more cute and varied overall.

/b - Random is the place that you need to have a strong sotmach (or avoid eating at the same time), because you'll find nasty stuff, but you also find pricessly funny pictures and memes. You just need to remember that /b is like the cesspool of the internet, anything goes and barely any rule apply, so you might as well just enjoy the pictures and ignore the posts as they are more or less idiotic, juvenile and useless of any content. :P

[TenchiHawkwing]

4chan is the internet.

I usually spend my time on /a/ and /v/, I used to be a /b/tard, but not so much now... /e/ and /h/ and even sometimes I like to see what they have cooking in /d/(It's not as bad as they say, really!)

Those origami boards are pretty badass too, you'll find some awesome stuff in there.

[Kurb]

This sounds interesting; what kind of food would the PLD use? Do they shift to more DD gear setup, or do both PLD's still rely on traditional defense food and gear?
Well last I used it both PLDs were in basic Iron musketeer gear with the shield from sandy, and we both used Tacos as we were switching every fight.
This being said another time I gave my Tacos to my fellow PLD and used cookies and took up the role of healer while the other PLD tanked......
Not the brightest idea but it worked well for about 10/12 fights untill we managed to get a propper main healer.

[csBahamut]

/startrant

Hrm...these newer PLDs I see leveling up have been giving PLDs a bad name. Bad/minimal gear and no food usually. Sometimes I've seen an okay one, but no truly good PLD that knows how to play it.

Take the 50's for instance, since that's where my MNK has just gotten into, and where I rememeber some PLDs from my RDM days. 90% of the PLDs had full IM gear. While it does work, the hands and feet are no more than defense boosts. There's perfectly good +acc gloves that can be gotten with CP. GET A LIFE BELT. Man, I can't complain enough about the number of PLDs I see turtling up for everything. It's overkill and a waste. The extra defense and VIT won't be noticable. Grab some acc gear, pop that fish kabob, and actually hold hate now!!!! It's magic what a little piddly damage can do for hate control.

/endrant

[Kurb]

true i saw a PLD once in the dunes with sweet FA for armour and using a grt Sword upon offering my advice as well as an old sword and gear I was called a noob granted i was only on the low 30/32 at the time but i was offering him good advice and better gear.Are all ppl like this nowadays when they start PLD cause i hear horor stories about new PLDs on my server.
1 ass actually ran off mid fight
In my opinion it's cause they think because a PLD can heal it's unbeatable <I wish> and think they can get a party simply on their job status <I wish>.
If im lvling my whm I'm always wary of rouge PLDs ><

[IfritnoItazura]

true i saw a PLD once in the dunes with sweet FA for armour and using a grt Axe upon offering my advice as well as an old sword and gear I was called a noob granted i was only on the low 30'2 at the time but i was offering him good advice and better gear.

PLD cannot use any great axe, as far as I can tell.

If you mean the player was using a great sword, I'd agree it's far from ideal, but it can work in the lower levels, and it's great for opening Distortion. (In the unlikely event that one encounters a encounter a pickup party with skillchain.)

What is "sweet FA"? And, "low 30'2"?

[Kurb]

Ummm I can't say the F part on here i think its against the rules
but A stands for All oops hope i didn't give it away ....how did i get great axe and great sword mixed up:o

But the basic thing is we should get some uber Paladin(s) to teach these yung upstarts how to act.
As I have a tremondous amount of hate for this type of attiude i recommend someone else do it

[Gwynn]

Actually, having leveling my SMN to 56 I've had to main heal a bit (though not nearly as much as I thought) I've had parties with quite a few PLDs. They were all fantastic, to be honest. I don't know how, but most of them only required a couple Cure III's per battle... for the most part they kep themselves alive and kept hate cemented on them. NINs on the other had were worse to main heal... they wouldn't need healed for most of the battle, but then their shadows would get wiped and the mob would use its big damage TP move and they'd die before I could get them back up... I never had any deaths with a PLD. Whatever SE is doing, they obviously must be doing something right.

[FranckKnight]

That's coming back to the whole debate NIN vs PLD. The factors that count when comparing the two jobs for tanking :

-The mobs you fight
-The skill of the player

The mobs you fight are self-explanatory. Some mobs are better tanked with Ninjas, like mobs with single attacks and no nasty AoE to drop his shadows. With those mobs, ninjas can virtually never be hit. PLDs are prefered against mobs with AoE and multi-attacks because of this, where its not as much evading damage as staying alive through it, and the shield skill is pretty much what can make a PLD survive a Hundred Fist attack sometimes.

Now the skill of the player thought counts for alot :
-The gear they use
-The food they use
-Their own participation/attention on the fight

At base, a mediocre Paladin will keep hate better than a mediocre ninja only because Paladin are geared toward it. But in either case you'll find stupid players to give the job a bad name. A Ninja that can't use Utsusemi to save his life, a Paladin not Curing himself or not using Flash efficiently. Equipment will only help so much, the rest is up to the player to use them.

I've had parties with Ninjas that I had barely any need of healing at all, and parties that PLD is practically dead before they try to cast interrupted Cures.

But Paladin is also an exceptionally situational job. If you have a Healer that is very quick on the Cures, your PLD will only waste MP with his own Cures, because a PLD gets delayed in his casting trying not to get interrupted. The use of Defender and other defensive abilities are really up to the Paladin's judgement of the fight's flow.

[Kurb]

bah

[Celeal]

Regardless of efficient or exp. gain, etc, IMHO, NIN tank parties is more fun and exciting if the party can do-it-properly. A NIN tank party is a good chance for each party member to use his style and skill to the max.

[Rai]

Regardless of efficient or exp. gain, etc, IMHO, NIN tank parties is more fun and exciting if the party can do-it-properly. A NIN tank party is a good chance for each party member to use his style and skill to the max.

How so? I am 75 PLD and 75 NIN, As a PLD I hold hate through things no NIN could, not even myself.

I have been told I hold hate better than any NIN by many people, but still as a PLD I have held hate through Bursts and the BLM could not believe the mob didn't turn. I've had DDs unleash what they thought was hell on a mob and when the dust settled it was still on me.

No, I am not perfect every time or in all situations, but as a PLD I know DDs can cut loose and push further than they ever could with a NIN tank.

If you are talking a party where all the DDs do /nin, then well I guess I could understand your post. But if you are talking a traditional party set up PLD allows the DDs to cut loose more and push their damage higher, because the PLD will protect them.

[Celeal]

I am not talking about the exp. gain or who has many hate control... and not referring to all DD /NIN party either (there isn't really a main tank).

Let me put it this way:
In a PLD party, the healer can be a little slow for -na status removal, DD can be lack of hate control (to a certain extend), the puller may pull a link and party is slow on reacting to crowd control, etc... PLD party is still safer. A skillful PLD can still operate in those party. That is the beauty of PLD, not a doubt.

In a NIN tank party, if anyone in the party does not know what he is doing, it is obvious. Does the NIN has the skill? Does the healer quick in -na status removal, buffing and know the hate of the tank? Can the DD ride the hate with the NIN, or out of control? How does the NIN party handles the crowd control? etc...

In my opinion, when it comes to NIN parties, regardless of which role you are filling in that NIN party, it is more fun and interesting.

[IfritnoItazura]

But the basic thing is we should get some uber Paladin(s) to teach these yung upstarts how to act.

I usually only have success when I bribe them. >_>

One time, in Lower Delkfutt's Tower, I was trying to convince this PLD that meat mithkabob is not the right food for him. He kept insisting it let's him do more damage, so he can keep hate better.

Well, he run out of food at one point, and I happen to have a boiled crab on me, so I gave it to him. His reaction? Something along the line of "Oh wow, this is great! I feel like I can tank anything now."

He became very receptive to my suggestions after that. <_<;

[Kurb]

LOL Reminds me of the time i was lvl my DRK in Quifim Offered my falme sword to the PLD and he ws refusing untill I told Him I was a LVL 30PLD

[dirtyclown]

I should warn you about /b/ (Random), though. /b/ is NEVER worksafe. You'll find lots of hillarious pictures such as this and this, but people also use it to post random pics of porn and stuff. Also keep in mind that nothing - and I do mean nothing - is sacred in /b/, and nothing is to be taken seriously. A lot of the things you find in /b/ are funny, but would offend a lot of people (racial jokes are a favorite there, but don't be surprised if you find pics joking about Hitler, 9/11, or the KKK.) How dare you. /b/ is supposed to shock first timers, telling them all about it and giving them a warning makes them into the softcore pansies who cry whenever a loli or guro thread is posted. This is exactly why we say to LURK MOAR. I like to see what they have cooking in /d/(It's not as bad as they say, really!) Women with huge packages are hot, amirite? For some reason I always laugh maniacally when visiting /d/. It's too hilarious to be erotic. Bondage makes me lol. Refresh pls Refresh pls Refresh pls Refresh pls Refresh pls Refresh pls Is really the only thing I can observe that Paladins do wrong when I'm on another job. The above phrase caused me to take a 2 month break when I was playing as Red Mage back in the day. We're already slave to a recast timer, there's no need to spam the chat log like that. Especially with a full MP bar, then they just sound like an ass. The problem I have as a Paladin is I never talk ingame. During a party, I'm pretty much mute. We could be getting hammered by things that are way too high, but I don't say anything just because I like to avoid unnecessary strife. Some people are way too touchy and won't take a suggestion from a random person wearing shiny white armor. It sucks even more because I don't say when I get status effects, the way I see it is the White Mage can see what's happening to me and should be able to respond with the proper cure when needed. I've run into a few who didn't know that Poison Breath causes poison though. >.>

[Lmnop]

I hate it when people don't talk during exp. most of the time, they're not even paying attention.

[Khevn]

I hate when people are too busy chatting to WS or pull

[Kurb]

i hear that amigo I'm all for chatting to people don't get me wrong but only if theres nothing to be done i've had people talk to me constantly mid fight as a whm about things like "really your Irish I like Ireland"and it's baiscally spam and annoying when i tell them im busy they get offended sissies

[FranckKnight]

Chatting during fights is ok, but there's a time for everything. A good part of playing the game is having fun, and having a bunch of mute drones pulling their exp just makes you realize that its a boring grinding game like any other.

Livening it up a bit is never a bad thing, but when the action starst, the focus needs to be on the mob and the party. Especially the key members, namely the tank and the healer.

DDs have possibly the most mindless job, and the worse of them being Monk. All they do is pound pound pound. Thieves try to position for SATA. Dark Knights use Absorb spells. Its just an example, it doesn't take away the goodness of Monks thought. But attention wise, they probably require the least.

A PLD will need to keep hitting his Voke/Flash macros, and mind his own HP, no matter if the WHM is faster than him or not, he needs to check and if he gets hit too hard, his Cure combined with the WHM's at the same time will fill him right up to rim.

A WHM needs to not only pay attention to HP, but also try to keep an eye on the action for those pesky special attacks for bad status effects, and also check on buffs and debuffs running out, if he's the one taking care of them.

RDM will try to keep on top of Refresh, but also the debuffs running out as its his specialty. But also of links to sleep them if need is, and of healing if things gets a bit more chaotic as it always happens once in a while.

If everyone is in their game, paying attention and doing what's required, the party will get great exp, and even have time to have fun with random chatter.

[Kurb]

true but if your lucky you'll nvr have to find out

[LyonheartLakshmi]

The only thing that stands out to me with PLDs (and this goes for any tank, whether it's a PLD, NIN or WAR) is when they do their first voke. It drives me nuts when the tank engages first before voking. This ends up delaying the time it takes for the first voke, which causes everyone else to have to wait before they engage / cast first debuff / etc.

[Kurb]

OMG I hate when tanks do that I myself have never done this as I started life out as a Red Mage I suffered because of that exact same thing so I know it's a good way to loose main healers .Even the other night I was Lvling my Whm
puller pulled and I healed the puller who by now was next to me BANG!! AGGRO HP goesstraight to yellow then came the voke

[Armando]

Man, I can't complain enough about the number of PLDs I see turtling up for everything. It's overkill and a waste. The extra defense and VIT won't be noticable. Grab some acc gear, pop that fish kabob, and actually hold hate now!!!! It's magic what a little piddly damage can do for hate control.Sadly, this is something that's been around since the beginning of the game D: At the very least now people are somewhat open to the possibility of increasing their damage some now that some PLDs have begun to adapt and turn into pseudo-DDs at endgame, but back then it was the SUPAR TURTLE DEFENSE style or nothing. You're right, though, it's a big mistake a lot of people unknowingly commit.
How dare you. /b/ is supposed to shock first timers, telling them all about it and giving them a warning makes them into the softcore pansies who cry whenever a loli or guro thread is posted. This is exactly why we say to LURK MOAR.I usually let people I know find out about /b/ on their own, but it just doesn't feel right if it's a total stranger XDI've run into a few who didn't know that Poison Breath causes poison though. >.>Wow, LOLThe only thing that stands out to me with PLDs (and this goes for any tank, whether it's a PLD, NIN or WAR) is when they do their first voke. It drives me nuts when the tank engages first before voking. This ends up delaying the time it takes for the first voke, which causes everyone else to have to wait before they engage / cast first debuff / etc.Actually, this is only an issue when people do it wrong. The range for drawing your weapon at a target is significantly larger than the range of Provoke, and if you draw your weapon as soon as possible you have more than enough time to voke the thing before it gets to camp. I use a macro every time someone pulls: /attack <bt>. If you do that as soon as the puller claims the mob, you'll either target it and fail to draw your weapon (happens if it's too far away) or draw your weapon from quite a distance away. Very convenient.

Anyways, sorry to disappear like that, had further internet complications this week and on top of that I was busy with finals. Plus, I got hooked on FFT and beat it in 5 days. I'm still playing it >.> 64 hours and counting! I never knew Wizards with Draw Out could be so broken...anyways, I will now resume the fanart posting!
Agrias rides a chocobo (poor thing...) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162486116456.png)
Agrias drinks a Potion. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162490333702.jpg)
By far one of my favorites. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162487687562.jpg)
A pretty nifty drawing of Agrias's sprite. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162486028073.jpg)
Ramza vs Delita. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162488759469.jpg)
On another note I found this little avatar over on the rpgamer website!Good stuff, I've seen that site a couple of times but never bothered to check it out. I think I will :3

[dirtyclown]

Agrias rides a chocobo (poor thing...) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162486116456.png)
Agrias drinks a Potion. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162490333702.jpg)
By far one of my favorites. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162487687562.jpg)
A pretty nifty drawing of Agrias's sprite. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162486028073.jpg)
Ramza vs Delita. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1162488759469.jpg)

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8642/116571415967405122gr0.jpg

[Armando]

LOL. Hadn't seen that one yet. Classic. Ok, because I'm amused, I'll comply.
Another pic of Agrias holding a Knight Sword. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1158819976635.jpg)
A really nice expression sheet. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1158820118316.gif)
Agrias stares out a window. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1158823137319.jpg)
A really cute (female) Mime. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1158826535036.jpg) You know, I never knew they could be soooo much fun.
(Spoiler alert) Bloody Angel. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Doval/For%20FFXIOnline/1158826429802.jpg)

[Vyuru]

Hmmm, I'm not sure but I think you like the Agrias pics Armando ;)

I never knew Wizards with Draw Out could be so broken

Anything with Draw Out is broken, thiefs with draw out are just plain fun :D

So is the 4x dancer with hide, dance the enemy to death!

An interesting feature to the game is that if you use Ramza's +str move on dancers, the dance damage goes up. Combine that with haste items/abilities and it gets REALLY fun.

[Armando]

You got me - I'm an Agrias fanboy. It's just too bad I haven't seen any FFT hentai out there save for this one doujin (Agrias x Ovelia and Ramza x Delita.) It's pretty good if you're into flat-chested girls, and it mimics the FFT art style pretty well. If you guys want, I could upload it into a Photobucket album or zip it and upload it somewhere.
Anything with Draw Out is broken, thiefs with draw out are just plain fun :DYeah, but if you take a Wizard and max out his Magic Attack, it actually obsoletes his spells because the Draw Outs start doing so much XD It's almost disgusting, you can compete with Orlandu's damage that way. Kind of ironic that they made it magic-based, it kinda makes Samurai one of the least fit jobs to use Draw Out, too. But yeah, since I don't have FFXI these days (that'll change soon, I'm going back home for winter vacation) I've been doing little experiments in FFT instead, lol.
So is the 4x dancer with hide, dance the enemy to death!

An interesting feature to the game is that if you use Ramza's +str move on dancers, the dance damage goes up. Combine that with haste items/abilities and it gets REALLY fun.LOL. Dance doesn't take you out of Sunken State? And yeah, I was wondering what controlled the damage, but I've been too busy testing other stuff instead. That's...really interesting. I always figured it'd be Magic Attack. Hmm... >:3

[dirtyclown]

Blade Grasp, Two Swords, Auto Potion and Reflect Mail makes that game broken. Add in Draw out for lol factor and you've got an unstoppable war machine. Also, Blade Grasp on a mage with high Brave makes for some massive lols.

I got into a party yesterday and got to 62 finally. Sadly I had to leave about 2 and a half hours in, but I've got a nice buffer to screw around with before I have to join another PT. Anyway, onto my point.

Cover. This ability does not get used enough I don't think, whether it be due to ignorance, or some Paladins can't be bothered to look up a proper macro to use it right. In the party I was in yesterday, we had a WAR/NIN and he was hitting like a truck every other WS. Cool thing about it was that he understood how Cover works and he'd snuggle up to me right before letting loose with Rampage. I'd Cover, toss a Flash, and have hate back on me in a few seconds. Nobody died, we all got some decent exp, and the White Mage was even nice enough to keep me Hasted. It was the kind of party that made me admire this game's mechanics, and made me want to keep playing. Everything went smoothly because of Cover. If you don't use Cover, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. Over the time I've played it has become my favorite JA, and it saddens me that it doesn't see regular use most of the time.

[Vyuru]

FFT is one of my favorite games, it's alot of fun. I really like Reis, she has a chance of charming an opponent whenever she hits them when she is her Dragoner job. She has an innate, oh what's it called? Ability that unlocks monsters extra abilities when they are within 2-3 squares of her.

Auto Potion Just make sure you don't have any normal potions in your inventory.

King Behemoth hits Ramza for 500 damage!

Ramza uses a potion!

Ramza restores 30 hp! Booya!

I highly dislike creating those ultimate parties, too often one of my characters gets charmed because I forget to protect against that. Getting Orlandu charmed by one of the assassins in the Elmdor fight is fun >.>

[Empedocles]

Hmmm. Cover... I remember I forgot we actually had the ability once. I had a series of pretty shocking parties from like... 30 to 50.

Then I got a static together (died so long ago, I kinda wish I hadn't tried now) and we go somewhere and people are actually using their brains, and lo!
Samurai says: "Emp I think you might need to {Cover} me, I'm going to try for a new record soon."
(Me drooling): "Eh? Wassat? Ohhh {Cover} riiiight, I forgot about that."
Samurai: "o.O"

So yeah. I don't get to use it very much, and the one party a month ago in Caedarva Mire it would have been a big waste of time. The point yeah....

Now I'm a pretty decent tank, the parties that actually function that I'm a part of tend to do very well, it's probably that I'm at the TP-burn kinda level now, but I've given up on trying to co-ordinate with the DDs. So just because the Paladin doesn't instantly cover a DD doesn't mean they are poor at the job.

As for the en-masse VIT + def, you gotta remember that this mentality has been around pretty much since the game's original release because it works. There have been quite a few updates for Paladins where there have been two expansion releases, new foods, new gear, mobs with different attacking styles in the past couple of years, (The shield adjustment being one of the biggest changes) where it's easier for Paladins to slant towards the damage side of things. This game has changed so much... heck, I even remember being slammed for wanting to go SAM/RNG April 2004!

So in conclusion, it's not right to bash people because they have been told to do something a certain way.. kindly talk to them about it, and if they don't want to listen, then it's their bad and leave them to it.

Time go sleepy sleep.

[dirtyclown]

King Behemoth hits Ramza for 500 damage!

I highly dislike creating those ultimate parties, too often one of my characters gets charmed because I forget to protect against that. Getting Orlandu charmed by one of the assassins in the Elmdor fight is fun >.>

I never remember being nailed quite that hard by King Behemoth, though I usually have Blade Grasp in place of Auto Potion for obvious reasons. Auto Potion just works really well in certain boss fights (Wiegraf at the monastery) when coupled with Reflect Mail. I used the Monk's long range move that travels along the ground against him and made short work of him that way. Also, I usually boot out the story characters save for Agrias and Beowulf. Reason for that is I dislike how the story characters don't change their armor when they switch jobs, and I can easily make a character that surpasses Orlandu's sword damage and makes kills faster, effectively leaving him in the dust. I keep Agrias on standby when I feel like messing around, since I always build her like the traditional Knight, and put a Mantel on her so she doesn't get owned too hard. A mantel, a good shield, and a strong weapon (usually Save the Queen) turns her into quite the hardass especially when she has Counter.

Now I'm a pretty decent tank, the parties that actually function that I'm a part of tend to do very well, it's probably that I'm at the TP-burn kinda level now, but I've given up on trying to co-ordinate with the DDs. So just because the Paladin doesn't instantly cover a DD doesn't mean they are poor at the job.

The bolded area concerns me. The fact that at such a high level there are still retard parties just baffles me. For me the occasional good one is enough to make me want to keep playing through all the faggotry that exists on Bismarck (LS drama, etc.). Right now I run around with my own empty LS equipped to avoid such things, but it's so ronery sometimes. ; ;

[Kurb]

I swear to God people don't get how hard it is to be a tank. If theres anything worse than a noob whm at 50ish it's me being a party leader.
I was doing saome of my best tanking since my return when this whm casts banish 2 on the lesser colbri thats almost dead.Since we're chaining at ~100exp a whack I tell her to conserve mp it says np back to me.
Next fight it unleashes 2 more so I tell her to stick to buffs and keeping me alive.Needless to say i was the only one taking damage thanks to NIN puller, but ~3/4 chained fights when my mp was @ ~8/24 between hits and the whm is still casting Banish2.I lost the head & booted her...
? she says to me
I tell her that her job was to keep me alive not to damage the mob and she was slowing the party down by using excess mp so i'm getting that red mage.She tells me that Red would be better cause of Refresh..
I lost it this time and said a BLM would make a better main healer at least it'd cast cure2 at the propper time

[Empedocles]

Right now I run around with my own empty LS equipped to avoid such things, but it's so ronery sometimes. ; ;

I'd join that LS <.<" I'm on a different server though :P

Something I've learned from getting 70 (Trying to skill up Greatsword -> Spinning Slash for Maat) is that 'high level's are the same as 'mid level's ... some awesome people/parties, some general people/parties, some retarded people/parties. Just gotta hope you don't get hit by the retarded stick, and stay with what you know.

I swear to God people don't get how hard it is to be a tank.

I hear that :cry: . I was 68, close to 69..... the party: RDM68, WHM68, PLD68(me), MNK70(has a previous job @75 and had been meriting), MNK69, MNK70 (ditto other 70MNK but with stuff like O-Hat :eek: ) they would just rip out Raging Fists/ Howling Fist/ Dragon Kick whenever they wanted and didn't give a crap about the party itself. Group of individuals {No thanks.}. {Party}{Can I have it?}

[Kurb]

It's gotten so bad lately that I wonder why am I still a tank.It's because of all these n00bs who were basically PL'd to there current lvls thinking a PLD is great because of its 2 hour I'm thinking of going back to my first job red and might lvl nin as a sub job for it.

[Icemage]

...you should have booted that WHM sooner. Any WHM who casts Banish II (or any magic that isn't strictly necessary - i.e. Slow, Paralyze, Dia) against a Colibri needs to be taken out back and shot.


Icemage

[Kurb]

thanks Ice..... I'll get PLD to 60 and then see whats what