+Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

[D34ThWi5h]

Im a 42 MNK and tbh i dont have ne +acc items ive been playing for 2 months and cant afford them but i never have problems hitting i miss every now and again but when it comes down to it i usually hit i dont really see the point in dishing out Millions of Gil for sum +acc when we also have Focus on top of it

[Mhurron]

Is this even English?

[Taskmage]

Yes, but bad english. I've seen much worse, but I do wonder where people buy keyboards without any punctuation marks whatsoever. I have to believe that's what the problem is, because I know I learned about periods when I was in first grade and apostrophes by third grade at the latest.Im a 42 MNK and tbh i dont have ne +acc items ive been playing for 2 months and cant afford them but i never have problems hitting i miss every now and again but when it comes down to it i usually hit i dont really see the point in dishing out Millions of Gil for sum +acc when we also have Focus on top of itI'm a 42 MNK and to be honest I don't have any +acc items. I've been playing for two months and can't afford them, but I never have problems hitting. I miss every now and again but when it comes down to it I usually hit. I don't really see the point in dishing out millions of gil for some +acc when we already have Focus.These guys are your friends:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i307/Taskmage42/pa_punctuation.jpg
They help people understand your ideas and respond to them rather than getting hung up on your poor communication skills and ridiculing you.

[Celeal]

...

ACC+ gear like Battle Gloves, Tilt Belt, Verner Ring soon be at very reasonable price, Shikaree Ring can be camped...

[neighbortaru]

if you don't overhunt, and at your current level, you won't "see" much difference, but it's there. if you can live with performing under your best, then so be it

[Celeal]

For connecting hits in Raging Fists, there is a difference.

I can understand not having expensive monk gear at level 40. Not everyone can afford it. For acc+ gear at level 40, besides the snipers or wood. ring, there are other cheaper alternatives... at least show some effort.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

i wud liek 2 respnd 2 ur pst.

Acc gr is vry impotent pst 50, tht is the piont whre ur Acc strts 2 fll bhind the mobz u fite cuz thy have gud envison. ne1 who maylays shud concider envestigation in snpr rngs and soul sue-she @ tht pint.

u cud also put sum tiem in2 CoP missonaries, their is gr8 acc gear in that Riverknee Sight No. 0A1 place from nms knwn az "Carnie Dobsumflys."

Yeager rng, ftw!

[D34ThWi5h]

yr all Beng Total Priks to Me

[Jei]

Teach me how to spell like that prz @@

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

It actually took me longer to type all that than the 40 paragraph essays I usually do. Be thankful I tried to speak 1337 at all, what I normally would have written would have made your head explode. All the same, tips for free accuracy gear lie within all that jibberish.

Thing is, ya gotta do some work for it, as with most things in this game. Endure many harsh trials to get a Jaeger Ring, you must.

[Raydeus]

Meh, that wasn't leet at all, just non-punctuated writting.

1e4v3 1337n355 0|_|+ 0ff +|-|15.

[Celeal]

Meh, that wasn't leet at all, just non-punctuated writting.

1e4v3 1337n355 0|_|+ 0ff +|-|15.

{ Please use auto-translator function }

[Lmnop]

I apologize for your poor reception, Deathwish. They're usually quite nice people, really. Some punctuation would be nice, but you're doing ok as long as you leave it in 2-line bursts like you've done so far.

Seriously, people. You guys on KI a bit too much recently?

As for Deathwish, it is suggested that you read around a bit. You'll find that what you "feel" is hardly the truth in this game. You should probably do your best to quest a Brown Belt (if you haven't yet) and equip a venerer ring (quite cheap). Also, Battle gloves.

Question: do you eat food? With above set-up, eat sushi. Squid Sushi isn't too expensive and gives good amounts of +acc. You'll notice your tp gain rate increase. If you do not eat food, do so.

You've only been playing this game for 2 months. You cannot expect to grind straight to 75. There is simply no way you can already have your subjob fully leveled and all the gear you'll need. You'll have to take it slow and you'll have to take breaks to earn money.

Keep your Beastman's Seals, they'll turn into cash. Buy a Venerer ring now, a lifebelt @48, and some random +acc items if you want to try a meat build and scrape by. But for you, I'd suggest all +attack/STR and eat some sushi.

That was good punctuation, but the post content was sorta incoherent. Sorry about that e.e

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I apologize for your poor reception, Deathwish. They're usually quite nice people, really. Some punctuation would be nice, but you're doing ok as long as you leave it in 2-line bursts like you've done so far.

Seriously, people. You guys on KI a bit too much recently?

I added KI to my restricted sites list due to keyloggers people like to plant there, but I still aggro to poor grammer and incomplete thoughts.

But getting back to what Lmnop said, yeah, you can't just push, push, push to 75, pass up gear and hope to stand out. There is a lot of good advice to be found on this forum and others, take time to read and consider it rather than ask if its all "overrated." This goes for subjobs too, many of the ones people consider "standard" are "standard" for a reason, then there are ones that are totally subjective, yet, that doesn't mean they have to be overlooked entirely.

I'm not saying you need to go out and spend millions of gil on awesome gear or sink lots of time into that sort of thing. But do put thought into what you want for MNK (or any job you claim as a "main job"). If there's a quest for a good piece of gear, make the time to do it or seek out friends to help you.

I've known a lot of people who just run to BRD, MNK, WAR, RDM or NIN for the fastest way to 75 and they typically don't do what I've mentioned. That's not to say they're all bad, they just don't stand out. This is pretty much why being level 75 meant nothing to me before and it means nothing to me now. To me, its more important how I got there.

[ValisOfValefor]

+Accuracy gear is not necessary, at your level, but it is nice.

All together from my bit of extra gear I have a good mix of +Str +Att and +Acc

I generally hit about 4 hits on my Raging Fists (About 300-400 is my average).

Though it really depends on what I'm fighting. My party the other night wanted to go into Quicksand Caves with me at 43 >< My numbers were horrible. I think about 100ish damage on my Raging Fists, I tried Backhand Blow, but it just completely missed 3 times in a row.

Now thats real overhunting IT++++, the beetles were annoying.

Spiders were not bad, but they generally killed the tank >< (Stupid crappy ninja)

Good news is that I hit my highest numbers ever (generally play paladin so I never get high numbers).

A good 583 Raging Fists (Berserk was up and we were fighting VTs, and I was eating meat woooohoooooo).

And a good amount of the + accuracy gear at this level isn't bad, generally 20kish for most the pieces on my server that I have. Life belt is about 60kish.

Still, it's good to have +Acc for weapon skills, and when you overhunt.

[Omni]

my mnk is 45 and the only acc piece i use is the 4acc on jiujitsu gi and tilt belt if things get tough. everyother gear slot is dedicated to str or atk.

mnk just naturally has good acc. and with sushi + focus... its pretty much all good. at higher lvls when you might try to hunt things that are IT++, you might want to get some things as backup just in case you are missing too much.

[Karinya]

+Acc is overrated and overpriced for all jobs, if you're below 50, eating sushi or both. It's not that +acc won't help you, but that something else will help you more (usually attack). Five hits for 10 are not better than three hits for 20 and two misses.

When you're severely overhunting or lower level than the rest of the party (or worse, both), acc is more tempting - but sacrificing atk is even worse than if you were fighting monsters of a reasonable level, and will drop your damage (both normal hit and WS) to truly worthless levels. It's a double bind without a real solution other than "wait until you're higher level to fight those mobs".

[D34ThWi5h]

I Just about gave up on this site but decided to pop back into this thread, and thank you for the Alternatives on Fairy generally +acc gear is expesive but I am going to look into life belt / venerer Rings later today. Thanks for the advice and look I even used periods. Oh and last thanks for giving me a real answer instead of just talking about me not puncuating my sentances.

[IfritnoItazura]

yr all Beng Total Priks to Me

Just curious, but do you understand why people react to your writing that way?

* * *

As for "i never have problems hitting i miss every now and again", how do you know that? Did you use a parser? It's very easy to fall into the mental trap of "I don't want to spend the effort to get those items, so I'll look for evidence that I don't need them."

People tend to see what they are looking for, rather than the truth.

[Omni]

i think the question is answered, no need to keep kicking the can.

[D34ThWi5h]

I thought i brought a stop to the flaming but apparently not.

[pearlsea]

+Acc is overrated and overpriced for all jobs, if you're below 50, eating sushi or both. It's not that +acc won't help you, but that something else will help you more (usually attack). Five hits for 10 are not better than three hits for 20 and two misses.
When you're severely overhunting or lower level than the rest of the party (or worse, both), acc is more tempting - but sacrificing atk is even worse than if you were fighting monsters of a reasonable level, and will drop your damage (both normal hit and WS) to truly worthless levels. It's a double bind without a real solution other than "wait until you're higher level to fight those mobs".
I personally would go for the 5 hits for 50 damage total then 3 hits for 60 damage total because you get more TP which lets you WS more often which gives you more damage over time. Also personally i recommend getting every accuracy piece you can personaly afford below level 50 because there generally is a lack of it and the lower levels are known for whiffing a lot.

[Dryhus]

As Itazura said, I highly recommend getting a parser. You see some surprising facts once you calculate all the numbers at the end of the fight. "Okay...so add his damage to the wyvern's and...wtf the DRG outdamaged me??" I wouldn't be surprised if you came up with that result if you skimp on Acc gear. Then you notice he had 85% Acc and you had 60% Acc. Maybe each of your hits packed more of a punch, but it's hard to make up for that kind of Acc deficit.

[Celeal]

IMHO, the goal is to connect the hits, and to make sure each hit deals as much of damage as possible.

Either sushi + STR/ATK gear, or attack food + ACC gear works, depends on the situation. The question is how much acc, str and atk in gear is needed for either setup?

I had partied with DD that pwned the mob using sushi, but I also had partied with other DD that failed using sushi. Same for attack food.

There are some type of mobs that have higher evasion, there are also type of mobs that have higher defense. The level gap between the mob and the DD have an impact as well.

In the end, a DD wants ACC+, STR+ and ATK+ gear. Sushi build trend to focus a little of ACC+ gear and a lot of STR+/ATK+ gear. Meat build usually focus heavily on ACC+ gear, and some STR+/ATK+ gear.

There is a different between sushi with zero ACC+ gear, and sushi with ACC+ (or ACC minus) gear. Similar relation with meat and ATK+ gear.

The high end STR+/ATK+ gear, like O.Kote, Brown Belt... can be as expensive as the high end ACC+ gear.

ACC+ is only part of the problem that a Monk needs to deal with. At the end, ACC+, STR+, ATK+, and food choice togather determine the actual number of ACC+, STR+ and ATK+ is desired.

[Karinya]

I personally would go for the 5 hits for 50 damage total then 3 hits for 60 damage total because you get more TP which lets you WS more often which gives you more damage over time.

No, it doesn't. Every commonly used DD WS's damage is greatly affected by Attack. Just like with the normal hits, you get more WS but they're weaker, so your total WS damage is lower even though you are doing more WS per 10 minutes.

Furthermore, even for main job THFs WS are 1/3 or less of your total damage (and the damage of THF WS comes mostly from SATA, which is another gear priority entirely). For most DDs it's more like 1/5.

Also personally i recommend getting every accuracy piece you can personaly afford below level 50 because there generally is a lack of it and the lower levels are known for whiffing a lot.

And if you put on every accuracy piece you can find, the lower levels are STILL known for whiffing a lot (in addition to hitting for crap when you do connect). This is because pickup parties in the lower levels overhunt like madmen. You can't fix a level problem with gear.

It *is* a good idea to balance some accuracy with some attack. It is *not* a good idea to load up as much accuracy as you can get and forget your attack. You will still miss monsters that are a lot of levels above you, and when you do hit, you'll hit weak.

[Karinya]

As Itazura said, I highly recommend getting a parser. You see some surprising facts once you calculate all the numbers at the end of the fight. "Okay...so add his damage to the wyvern's and...wtf the DRG outdamaged me??" I wouldn't be surprised if you came up with that result if you skimp on Acc gear. Then you notice he had 85% Acc and you had 60% Acc. Maybe each of your hits packed more of a punch, but it's hard to make up for that kind of Acc deficit.

No, it isn't. 60% vs 85% is less than 50% more hits per minute (assuming equal delay weapons; otherwise it's a bit more complicated but works out similarly in the end). If you are hitting for 50% more per hit (which you almost always will with an attack focused setup vs an accuracy focused setup), then you are doing more total damage.

Nearly every party I've had as DRG I've seen
Sushieater hits the Worker Crawler for 10 points of damage.
Sushieater scores a critical hit! The Worker Crawler takes 21 points of damage.
Karinya hits the Worker Crawler for 46 points of damage.

It's *impossible* to make up for that kind of Atk deficit unless the meat eater's acc falls to something ridiculously low like 30%. (Which I have not seen, even on 200+ exp beetles with undispelled rhino guard on.) You can't hit more than 100% of the time, and the closer you get, the less benefit you get from additional accuracy.

I recommend YOU get a parser, and pay less attention to the accuracy column and more to the total damage dealt column.

[Mhurron]

No, it doesn't.
5x50=250
3x60=180

Ya, I think it gives more damage, not counting the extra TP you'd get from 5 hits over 3. Like with all things, lots of smaller parts usually are worth more then a few big ones.

[pearlsea]

No, it doesn't. Every commonly used DD WS's damage is greatly affected by Attack. Just like with the normal hits, you get more WS but they're weaker, so your total WS damage is lower even though you are doing more WS per 10 minutes.
Furthermore, even for main job THFs WS are 1/3 or less of your total damage (and the damage of THF WS comes mostly from SATA, which is another gear priority entirely). For most DDs it's more like 1/5.
Every commonly used DD WS is also multi hit, therefore if you miss hits you loose damage, and missing 2 hits of a 5 hit WS is alot more hurtful then missing 2 out of 5 melee swings. And if you are like any normal melee DD you would switch gears for WS anyways so i dont know why this is even a factor.
And if you put on every accuracy piece you can find, the lower levels are STILL known for whiffing a lot (in addition to hitting for crap when you do connect). This is because pickup parties in the lower levels overhunt like madmen. You can't fix a level problem with gear.
It *is* a good idea to balance some accuracy with some attack. It is *not* a good idea to load up as much accuracy as you can get and forget your attack. You will still miss monsters that are a lot of levels above you, and when you do hit, you'll hit weak.
I said get every piece of accuracy you can afford not only get accuracy and ignore your attack completely. There are only a few pieces of gear that give decent amounts of accuracy at low levels anyways, so get that and fill the rest of your slots with attack.

EDIT:
5x50=250
3x60=180
Ya, I think it gives more damage, not counting the extra TP you'd get from 5 hits over 3. Like with all things, lots of smaller parts usually are worth more then a few big ones.
I think you misunderstood, it was 5 hits for 10 damage for 50 damage total compared to 3 hits for 20 damage(totally exaggerated number) for 60 damage total.
Anyways theoretical numbers say nothing because lots of things effect damage overtime, but if you want to prove a setup is more effective then another please parce it or at least show a lot of screenshots.

[Lmnop]

They both work, who cares?

I prefer meat + acc equipment, though I only get to use that layout on low IT (my acc gear is still a bit gimp).

I also have lots of attack gear and carry sushi with me. I like both, I don't mind (though when I do get to bust out attack food, my Rampages are more random, but I deal soooo much more DoT).

Then there's the whole bard thing. People are like OMFG minuetx2 + sushi (2x minuet is statistically more efficient than 2x madrigal), but they forget that if I'm already geared for acc gear + attack food + berserk, that 2x minuet just helps me even more. Bard in the party doesn't decrease my acc, afterall. >.> That was just a random tangent I was thinking of though. Everyone talks about food + gear or food + songs, never all 3.

It's a very tiny point but... hitting often but very weakly is also known as "feeding the mob tp."

If you're a mnk with all the expensive +acc gear and you're eating sushi, you're looking at your parser's acc column and not total damage. If you attack every 350 delay or 5.8 seconds (I don't know monk's delay, just a guestimate), that's ~20 swings/minute. If you miss twice, you have 90% acc. If you miss 4 times, that's 80%. if you hit for average 30/swing, you have potential of 600 dmg with 100% acc. Let's say you instead hit for 40 damage, but you miss a whomping 5 times. Tada! 600 damage. but the parser says you hit 15/20, or 75% accuracy. How about that... +25% acc and -25% damage is the same as +25% damage and -25% acc (not that you're likely to achieve 100% acc even in my example).

It's hard to compare Monkles and Waranges (I'm so dumb), but i've been in parties with blinged out monks hitting for 15-25 while I swing for 40-50. You can spend all the money in the world and still be retarded.

[IfritnoItazura]

Everyone talks about food + gear or food + songs, never all 3.

Actually, results depend on food, gear, party (incl. BRD), and monster--it's not possible to fully separate any one element from the rest.

Often, you really can't say some attack gear is better than another accuracy gear in a slot without taking into account of what food you use, what's the party like, the monster you're trying to kill, AND what are the rest of your gear.

People keep writing up neat sounding little rules like "Accuracy owns all" or "Attack gear with sushi", but I think there are so many variables that there's no way to fully predict ahead of time what will work best. Bring sushi and meat, have different attack/accuracy gears to switch in, and keep an eye on the parser. Switch gears and food for 30 min stretches and see what results you'd get, and soon you'll have a better idea of which setups work can well for you.

The only neat little rule I truly believe in now is "Check your parser."

Of course, even if you can't use a parser or get someone else to parse your party for you, don't over look the obvious; /check the monster--if it says "high evasion", you need more accuracy; if it says "high defense", you need more attack. (If it says both, you're over hunting, or under geared, or both gimped and poking at the wrong mob. >_>; )

My personal preference on melee DD jobs (when I'm too lazy to run a parser) is target formonster to check as low evasion as priority over low defense, since when I'm out damaged on a DD job it's usually to a melee with better accuracy. YMMV.

That said, my MNK is only 31, so maybe you higher level MNK's just plain old out damage everyone else using either accuracy or attack build--for all I know, maybe some of you guys can walk up the mob wearing nothing but a Republic Subligar and just own. =b

[Celeal]

In general, I agree with IfritnoItazura in above post.

In my past parties with IT mobs (excluding overhunt situations), at level 40, with ACC+15 ~ +20 from gear with attack food can match the TP gain with sushi user: Whenever the sushi TP just reach over 100%, my TP is also reach over 100% at almost the same time. At level 50, with ACC+35 ~ +40 is enough with attack food. After level 55, I experience a huge gap in ACC between sushi setup and meat setup.

Seriously, at level 40 we don't need ACC +40 from gear in order to use meat ^^;

[Ryouken]

As you've probably realized, Accuracy is a Monk's greatest weakness (well more specifically it's weakness in terms of PT performance), and you should try and do everything you can to make up that weakness with as many +ACC gear and food you can find.

Once you get to 50, you must start buying some +ACC gear, even Battle Gloves will do if you don't have the money(I myself am poor and am currently using Battle Gloves and they allow me to fufill my PT's expectations). Also weapons such as Impact Knuckles have decent stat increases (including accuracy) that are also reasonably priced (if you really have no gil then you can get your artifact weapon, Beat Cesti, which also raise accuracy).

If you don't buy some kind of +ACC gear at that point, your performance within a PT will be far below satisfactory and this can lead to fewer PT invites.

My advice for you is to possibly lvl up your THF to 15 (Treasure Hunter) and start farming some low lvl mob drops (rabbit hides, beehive chips, or even silk thread if your in Sarutarubata) and sell them at the AH.

Remember that you can't just grind right to 75 without taking the proper preparations until you can get your artifact armor (which can be started at 50+), at that point you can recieve some good gear for free (however you will need help from friends to complete the quests.). So just get some decent +ACC gear that can last you till your mid-50's and then start getting your artifact set.

[Omni]

eh... i dont agree with the above post. the heavy reliance on +acc items was dropped with the intervention of sushi. if you leveled before sushi was introduced then yes, acc items are very very important. so to answer the topic question, yes i think +acc is overrated.

pre-sushi grind consisted of loading up with as much +acc as possible since at that time, it was all about eating meat or other +atk foods.

for any job that i have played, i have geared less towards +acc and more towards str/atk while eating sushi. IF you still have issues with accuracy, i believe mnk is the job with the least worries. naturally mnk has decent accuracy, it also has Focus to add to it when facing high evasion mobs. you should have some +acc pieces in your inv. just in case but saying that you MUST equip +acc is a bit unnecessary.

Also, with the affects on PT invites, unless you are notoriously for being a bad player (not just your acc sux but afk, stupid, etc) PT invites are always slower for melee. Your pt performance does not contribute to how quickly you get invites through these mid levels. 1/20 people will remember you, if that. melee are always going to be plenty and pt invites will always be slower than mages. simple as that.

[Celeal]

With sushi, it is not necessary to load every possible gear slot for acc+ equipment. However, some acc+ gear is recommended. For example, Juji. Gi is still a nice body gear from level 40 until level 55, even with sushi setup.

Look at the current price of O.Kote, Brown Belt or other ATK/STR gear for sushi build, and compare the current price of ACC+ gear around level 40, it can be cheaper with meat build between level 40 and 50. When the MNK reach higher level, he can switch to sushi setup:
-- Higher level means more farming options.
-- AF can replace some gear.
-- Sell those expensive ACC+ gear for funding expensive STR+/ATK+ gear.

The fact is, top of the line DD gear is usually expensive, regardless of +acc, +atk or +str, except of a few exceptions or questable items.

Saying +ACC is overrated because it is expensive (unless I misunderstood the OP) is very different from saying +ACC is overrated because of sushi.

[Omni]

i feel +acc is just overrated overall.
now im not saying that you should not wear any +acc gear but, the need for expensive, rare +acc gear still doesnt convince me. There's a lot of easily attainable, good +acc gear out there that will do the job and then some!!

[D34ThWi5h]

I've invested in a Life Belt and borrowing a Juji Gi till 58 for Temple Cyclas which will be +15 Acc. at 56 my Focus will add +20 acc( w/ Temple Crown) for 2 minutes which is about id say 75% of mobs but still some downtime on recast.
My question is will +35 Acc be enough to switch to ATK Food instead of Sushi?

[Celeal]

It depends on your level range, the mob's type and level, party's buff (BRD, COR or SMN?) or debuff (SMN, Shield Break, etc).

Well, I don't use parser, so my estimate is based on speed of TP gain:

At level 54, my WAR/NIN with acc +40 with meat, my TP gain could still keep up with other WAR/NIN in my party who used sushi at the same level. We could use WS about the same time. Note: the other WAR also equiped with ACC+ gear (2x Viking Axe = acc+ 20).

At level 60, with acc+ between 35 ~ 40, when my TP reach about 70%, my Skillchain partner who used sushi usually is over 100%. It is based on my rough estimate from observation.

The number from above is not parsed, so please don't take the number as fact ^^;

To OP:
I am not certain what is your expectation of enough ACC+ gear to switch to ATK Food instead of Sushi. Are your goal is to wear enough ACC+ gear and use ATK food, to match the accuracy of Sushi user, but have higher average damage for each punch than a sushi user? Or, are you okay with lower accuracy, but have a higher average damage for each punch?

[neighbortaru]

should be fine unless you over-hunt or are the low level member of the melees.

[Karinya]

However, you can't always control whether this is the case or not, so it's good to be prepared for a variety of situations.

I hate sushi because it makes my attacks so much weaker... but I still carry some, in case I have a party where I can't hit any other way.

For some jobs it is eventually beneficial to macro swapping between different gear for normal hits and for WS, because acc isn't very beneficial to WS; but monk may be an exception because of Raging Fists, or just a lack of good gear to swap for (you really don't want to change belts for example).

[Malacite]

Genearlly speaking, try to strike a balance based on what's available for that slot;

For instance, a MNK could wear battle gloves while eating meat for a slight accuracy boost, but O.Kote would still be a million times better since 20 attack > 3 accuracy.

Use your discretion when dealing with similar numbers (for example, if one piece has 3 attack and the other has 5 accuracy, I'd go with the opposite of what you're eating. The attack item for sushi, the accuracy item for meat.)