Starting City Pros & Cons

[Futan]

Hola.

I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section. I figured that there should be a thread of pros & cons for the starting cities. I'm just going to add some basics and add more as you guys come up with them. >,>

Bastok
Pros:
-Humes or Galkans: Bastokan Ring (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/1987)*
-Guilds: Alchemy, Smithing, Goldsmithing
-HELM: Mining, Excavating
-Start Locations for Extra Jobs: Dark Knight, Puppetmaster, Ninja
-Close to low-level party areas(Valkurm Dunes, Korroloka Tunnel)
-Miners: Zeruhn Mines(accessed from Bastok Mines) is the only mine where it's safe to mine from level 1.
-Tanks: Equipment sold(from NPCs or with CPs) mainly focuses on defense
-Crystals Commonly Dropped: Earth, Fire, Water**, Wind
-Tenshodo Quest: Zinc Ores

Cons:
-A mage or melee damage dealer may have trouble finding resources from NPCs


San d'Oria
Pros:
-Elvaans: San d'Orian Ring (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/1985)*
-Guilds: Woodworking, Smithing, Leatherworking
-HELM: Mining, Logging
-Start Locations for Extra Jobs: Paladin, Dragoon
-Close to popular low-level party area(Valkurm Dunes)
-Fishers: Knightswell, one of the best spots to fish for Moat Carp, is right in Sandy's backyard
-Damage Dealers: Equipment sold(from NPCs or with CPs) mainly focuses on melee attack
-Crystals Commonly Dropped: Dark**, Earth, Fire**, Wind

Cons:
-A mage or tank may have trouble finding resources from NPCs
-City-specific Tenshodo quest is not available at low-levels


Windurst
Pros:
-Tarus or Mithras: Windurstian Ring (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/1986)*
-Guilds: Bonecraft, Clothcraft, Cooking, Fishing
-HELM: Harvesting, Excavating
-Start Locations for Extra Jobs: Summoner, Ranger
-Good farming mobs
-Mages: Equipment sold(from NPCs or with CPs) mainly focuses on magic
-Crystals Commonly Dropped: Earth, Fire, Water, Wind**
-Tenshodo Quest: Yagudo Necklaces

Cons:
-A melee damage dealer or tank may have trouble finding resources from NPCs
-Far from popular low-level party area(Valkurm Dunes)
-The city's size could make it so new players have trouble navigating through it


*You can get any starting ring once Rank 3.
**The only and/or best place you can get the listed crystals (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Crystal) at early levels

I know some of it really has minimal to do with your starting city(ie, extra jobs) but I figured I would cover all the bases. Corrections, confirmations and additions are all welcome!

[Ninmin]

Hey, thanks for this, to me its good for us new players!!! <3

[neighbortaru]

your cons for bastok and sandy are not really true. there's plenty of gil making opportunities in bastok if you are clever and only being near valkurm is not really a con.

[eticket109]

You may want to link to the rings or give their stats. Depending on job choices, they can have a great effect on low levels.

[Futan]

Yeah, I wanted to have at least 1 con for each. Couldnt think of one for Bastok. I think not having an alternative leveling spot near you could be a con. But most parties just go to the dunes anyway...

edit: Excellent idea eticket!

[eticket109]

The con for Bastok should be that it's... well... Bastok. >.>

Or... if you start as a taru in Bastok, get a couple ranks as fast as possible so people don't assume you're a gilseller.

[Futan]

lol. Might not be what you meant but just reminded me how my linkshell used to call Bastok "France" because they never got in first in conquest. I think I shall work that in. XD

[FranckKnight]

Con for Windy : Its so freaking big! >_<

I think the biggest reason to start in a city would be long-term crafting. You'll want to be in a city near the resources to craft.

Like Sandoria is near lots of Logging areas, and is the head guild of Woodworking. Bastok has lots of mining points around it, and has the head guild of Smithing and Goldsmithing. Crawlers are abundant near Windy and that's where Clothweaving is. Also Windy is a good spot for fishing and its guild.

The rings are only useful for a part of the game, and you can even buy them later with Conquest Points.

Newbies should know what crafts the cities offer for this reason.

[Akashimo]

don't forget you can get the rings regaurdless of race if you didn't get it from starting there by having Rank 3 and that city is in first for conquest ^^;
Hehe, love being a san d'orian with both bastok and sandy rings just to confuse ppl when exping below 36 XD

[Sabaron]

lol. Might not be what you meant but just reminded me how my linkshell used to call Bastok "France" because they never got in first in conquest. I think I shall work that in. XD

That's odd... I always call San d'Oria France because... well... because they're obviously French.. Come on... Chateau D'Oraguille? French language constructs in the names? Paladins are the subject of early French lituerature (though Roman in origin).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chanson_de_Roland

I don't think your con for Bastok is apt. When I started, Bastok was consistently on top of Conquest. Now (on Asura), they have a tendency to do poorly, but it's really not an issue you can tie to a region. I rely on the overturning of the three nations to acquire items, and I'm glad that it flip-flops a lot.

And... if you are getting server specific, there's an Asuran Con for picking Sandy... The prices at the AH tend to be large percentages higher than Bastok, Windurst, and Jeuno on a large selection of popular items.

Also, for starting areas, I would not consider the Yughott Grotto a good place for mining. For low-level miners, Yughot is deadly--it is similar to Palborough. Bastok boasts the only non-aggro (with the exception of the nasty little jelly) mine in the game. It is also the smallest mine in the game and very easy to navigate even without a map and Zeruhn is directly attached to the town for easy access to the AH, Delivery Box, Mog House, Crystal and Pick supplies. Bastok is a great starting city if you want to mine. If you go to Korroloka, you can Excavate as well--if you can avoid the aggressive monsters, of course.

One really nice thing about starting in Sandy is that you have access to the very popular Knightswell for fishing (If you like fishing) and it's where you need to turn your Moat Carps in for Lu Shang's.

Windurstians have the highest travel times of all three nations, that is definitely apt. A boat-ride to Valkurm, 4 large zones (one zone that is actually two zones combined into one even). As for shopping, Windurst shops are abysmal for hard armors. Bastok and Sandy have excellent upper level armors. Of course Windy has the best spell selection outside of Selbina/Jeuno and contains the central offices of both of the easiest starting crafts--Fishing and Cooking.

[eticket109]

I always though San D'Oria was modeled more after Japanese culture (ie: isolationism ect). I can see what you mean about the french tie-ins though.

[FranckKnight]

Conquest Ranking ebbs and flows with the string of low level players, more or less.

Since ToAU areas are open to the lv 50+ players now, there's alot less people working in Conquest. A year ago every area in the game was subject to Conquest, so it wasn't an issue. Now when you reach higher levels, Conquest gets ignored.

So what's left is the lv 1-50 characters. Its not necessarily due to the new players entering the game, but those that return to lower level job. If there's a 'wave' of Windurstian that, coincidentally at the same time, decide to level up lower levels, a region will invariably shift to Windy.

If a majority of Sandorians are already at 50+ and don't go back to Conquest areas, you'll see alot less areas controlled by Sandoria of course.

Conquest for controlling territories isn't as important as it was before because of that. There's also more and more areas that are stuck under beastman control for several weeks on our server (Phoenix).

But still, I'd like to grab a bunch of people and go do some Expeditionnary Forces in some areas to steal them and get my Outpost Warps :D

[eticket109]

Conquest has been shifting from week to week on Valefor. Bastok is actually first this week.

[FranckKnight]

Oh, and about the French of Sandoria, I agree about it wholeheartedly. I'm French Canadian myself, and the names have a definite french structure. But I assure you that bery little of the words used have any significance.

I haven't seen many names even that are 'common' or even existing, but alot of those are 'similar' to real names. For example, the famously Bonarpants in Sandoria Port. Beyond the weird sounding name (for english), its very close to Bonaparte (Napoleon), but still a stonethrow away from being accurate.

What makes it french is in the way the syllables are written and used. While the words have no significance, their structure and form do suggest being french. The names could have been created out of random french syllables from a name generator thought.

Ranperre, Destin (Fate), Pieuje, Trion, Chateau (castle) d'Oraguille, Bostonniaux Oubliettes... Oubliettes is a dungeon more or less in french, a prison at the bottom of a castle. "Oubli" means to forget, so its basically when they would throw evil-doers to be 'forgotten' there to their fate, thus the origin of the word.

One of the few names in the castle's surrounding that isn't very french-like is Halver. The use of H, L and V in this manner isn't very french like.

On the other hand, Oraguille's part of 'gu' is typical french for the sound 'g', plus the double-L use. One example of this use is Aiguille (needle, pin).

That's all for today's class, come back soon for more :D

[Macht]

There is another thing about the pro's and con's you neglected. That is equipment sold by NPCs. The 3 nations break down to three principals of items they sale which is usefull for starting jobs.

Windurst = Magic Spells / Mage equipment (Light)
Bastok = Defensive Equipment
San d'Oria = Offensive Equipment

For starting jobs if you start as a mage in Bastok or San d'Oria the spells you can obtain is limited especially if they are not Rank 1. These two towns are better focused for the Melee and Tanks.

Same thing occurs if you are in Windurst and a Melee. Now instead of being able to get decent equipment from the NPCs you'll have to resort the often overpriced Auction House sale of that item.

Then also should include the conquest items you can obtain, also focused to the theme of that nation.

[Sabaron]

Oh, I realize that most of the names are not actually French, but that rather S-E has used French phonemes in the construction of the names--regardless of meaning.

I always thought of Norg as Japan.. It's small, very isolated, and uses Japanese phonemes and words.

Bastok is quite obviously reminiscent of American Democracy and Industrialism--it even includes Political waste and racism in its tapestry which America has been known to have every time we have a wave of immigration--Irish, African (forcible of course), Asian, and currently Mexican; Immigrants have historically been subject to at least mild oppression throughout our history.

Now Windurst, I'm not quite sure on. It's led by a (as far as Windurstians know) aged wise woman who sees into the future--it is very mystical and natural, but I can't pin it down to a specific culture.

[Mhurron]

Now Windurst, I'm not quite sure on. It's led by a (as far as Windurstians know) aged wise woman who sees into the future--it is very mystical and natural, but I can't pin it down to a specific culture. Thats because Windurst is so much better then anything else. To base it on anything would dilute the awesomeness of Windurst.

[eticket109]

Don't forget the Hume/Galka situation when comparing Bastok to the U.S. There is a pretty strong correlation between that situation and the slavery/civil rights movement.

Sandy, despite the names, still strikes more of a Japanese chord with me then a European one. Japan and San D'Oria both strike me as strong kingdoms with long and important histories that don't like to have to rely on the help of others.

Windurst is a bit harder to place for me as well.

[Macht]

Windurst is more like a rain forest tribe, Kazham fits the like Amazon thing, Aht Urghan fits a sort of Middle East theme (Even has the constant wars too 'Beseige' :rofl: ), San d'Oria definatly fits the French or European type. Jeuno kind of has a London type feel to it, including their own "Big Ben". >.>

For Japan it's probably more of those other ports in Aht Urghan that fits it better.

[Haggai]

Unless you are looking solely for starting areas (Saruta, etc), a Windy pro is nearby excavation in Tahrongi Canyon.

Another thing you may want to show is how easily you can obtain crystals in each area.

The Woodworking guild may be in San d'Oria, but one of the main crystals used (wind), isn't easy to get in that area. Better to head to Windy to kill Yagudos and bees. Then move to elementals in Tahrongi when higher.

Earth - everywhere (bunnies, worms, plants)
Wind - 1st: Windurst (Yagudo, bees). 2nd: San d'Oria (bats in KRT)
Ice - nowhere really... then again, ice crystals aren't used much.
Fire - 1st: Sandy (Orcs, Lizards). 2nd: Bastok (Lizards, Birds)
Water - 1st: Bastok (Quadav, Crabs). 2nd: Windurst (Crabs, Pugils)
Lightning - everywhere (certain Goblins), but I say 1st: Bastok for proximity to Konschtat Elementals
Dark - 1st: San d'Oria (Mushrooms) distant 2nd: Bastok (mushrooms in Gusgen)

I mention these because maybe someone is planning to do smithing, but can't decide Bastok or Sandy. The abundance of fire crystals in Sandy would probably help the decision.

Or say someone wants to do Bonecrafting and Woodworking, both of which need wind crystals. The player can't decide which guild they want to be closer to, but the abundance of wind crystals in Windurst could push them toward Windurst.

I don't know how you want to bring this information, but I feel it would be helpful.

[Icemage]

One pro if you're a mage in Windurst:

When Windurst is in first place, citizens can purchase Ginger Cookies (+5 mp recovered while resting, 3 minute duration) for 11-12 gil apiece. This is significantly less than their going rate on the AH and will greatly improve your performance as a mage without breaking the bank, especially at lower levels.


Icemage

[Murphie]

Of course, you can also buy them from Bastok or Sandoria if you're a mage and your nation is in first place. Windurst isn't at all special in that regard.

Basing pros and cons around where a nation stands in conquest is useless, since every sever is different and the standings change from week to week.

[Icemage]

Of course, you can also buy them from Bastok or Sandoria if you're a mage and your nation is in first place. Windurst isn't at all special in that regard.

Basing pros and cons around where a nation stands in conquest is useless, since every sever is different and the standings change from week to week.

Actually, each city's merchants sell some specific items only to its citizens when their nation does well in conquest.

In this instance, Ness Rugetomal in Windurst Waters will sell Ginger Cookies only to Windurstians and only when Windurst in in first place. You cannot buy them when your allegiance is to Bastok or San d'Oria at all - the item will not appear for you no matter what the conquest results are.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Ness_Rugetomal

Bastok and San d'Oria also have items similar to this in various shops, but none of the others is quite so useful or inexpensive.


Icemage

[neighbortaru]

ginger cookies are available in the 1st place nation from the head of the travelling perfomers, Valeriano. same price too.

[Kittyneko]

(Bastok)Cons:
-A mage or melee damage dealer may have a hard time getting started here due to the focus on defense
x.x Well, that sounds like any job would have a hard time starting here.

[Murphie]

Actually, each city's merchants sell some specific items only to its citizens when their nation does well in conquest.

In this instance, Ness Rugetomal in Windurst Waters will sell Ginger Cookies only to Windurstians and only when Windurst in in first place. You cannot buy them when your allegiance is to Bastok or San d'Oria at all - the item will not appear for you no matter what the conquest results are.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Ness_Rugetomal

Bastok and San d'Oria also have items similar to this in various shops, but none of the others is quite so useful or inexpensive.


IcemageI was referring to the traveling carnival where you can purchase Ginger Cookies if your nation is in first.

As I said earlier, basing your starting nation around conquest results is silly, as it's not a constant. You can successfully start a character of any job in any city and do equally well. The only difference is preference.

[Sabaron]

-A mage or melee damage dealer may have a hard time getting started here due to the focus on defense
-A mage or tank may have a hard time getting started here due to the focus on melee damage dealing

-A tank or melee damage dealer may have a hard time getting started here due to the focus on magic.

Any job can function in any of the three starting cities. All cities have weapons and armor and spells available, just in different configurations. You may have to get certain pieces from the Auction House.


-No city specific Tenshodo quest


A Job for the Consortium (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/A_Job_for_the_Consortium)

The San d'Orian quest is easier than the other two Tenshodo Quests, but you can get your oh-so-lovely Airship Pass revoked. It's also not really for low-levels. You can make 1000gil each time you run it without endless farming for non-stackables.

[Futan]

Thats' interesting. I always thought that tenshodo quest was for all airships like that one where you find the person. Discerning something...

[Icemage]

Thats' interesting. I always thought that tenshodo quest was for all airships like that one where you find the person. Discerning something...
No. A Discerning Eye is actually a completely different set of quests.

A Job for the Consortium is the most difficult Tenshodo quest to repeat, since it REQUIRES that you ride the airship and pass through the customs gate in Port Jeuno (failure to do so, such as using a Warp or Teleport spell, or travelling by land, will cause you to fail the quest from "damaged goods").

You have about a 1 in 3 chance of getting caught, and getting caught means your airship pass is revoked for 1 full real life day (24 real hours).


Icemage

[Lunaryn]

I would add that in terms of outpost teleportation, a Bastokan has a couple advantages worth noting:
1) Once you get your newbie zone teleports, if you do, Sarutabaruta and Ronfaure outposts are easy walking distance from their respective cities. Gustaberg is a bit more of a pain. As a Bastokan, you'll have immediate access to the Metalworks, and if you're lucky enough to get newbie outposts, you can teleport pretty close to the other nations.
2) Easy access to Bastok means easy access to not only Korroloka tunnel, a nice but not always popular leveling ground suitable for full xp parties in about the 15-22 range or so, but easy access to Eastern Altepa Desert, the level ground of choice come 30. Western Altepa and Quicksand Caves figure in later on in levels as well; for a while, you're going to have your xp parties be either near Jeuno or near Korroloka. While you can get an Altepa Gate Crystal to allow teleporting here, you may not always be able to get a teleport; chances are that you can get back to your home nation quickly, though, and if that nation is Bastok you're a relatively short run away from the desert.
To a lesser extent point 2 has a pro-Sandy variation in easy access to the Northlands, but Xarcabard parties are rare in my experience so you'll mostly be going there for missions and quests, which means most likely you'll be high enough to use the Fauregandi or Valdeaunia outposts once you have time.
BTW, if you can put together your own parties as a Windurstian, keep in mind Buburimu Peninsula and Meriphataud Mountains can support parties within the traditional dunes ranges. Buburimu/Mhaura even has its own subjob quest. Meriphataud Mountains is good because there's a very large segment at the south end without any aggressive mobs which could support nice camps. I'm not sure exactly what level it becomes viable, but it's definitely worth a try.

[Icemage]

Being able to Outpost to Sarutabaruta and Ronfaure as a Bastokan is pretty useful, it's true. It does, however, require one of those concerted "conquer enemy territory" campaigns that players occasionally wage to "swap" outposts.

Truth be told, if you level WHM to 58+ and BLM to 29+, there's no such thing as an Outpost that's far away: You can usually just Teleport-Vahzl and outpost back home (or in the case of Bastok, you can Teleport-Altep, then Escape from Korroloka Tunnel to reach Bastok).


Icemage

[Mhurron]

I would add that in terms of outpost teleportation, a Bastokan has a couple advantages worth noting:
1) Once you get your newbie zone teleports, if you do, Sarutabaruta and Ronfaure outposts are easy walking distance from their respective cities. Gustaberg is a bit more of a pain. As a Bastokan, you'll have immediate access to the Metalworks, and if you're lucky enough to get newbie outposts, you can teleport pretty close to the other nations.Since your oppertunities for getting the Outpost warp to the other cities starting zones are quite rare, this isn't any more of a benifit to starting in Bastok over any other city. Also, IIRC everyone has immediate access to the Metalworks.

2) Easy access to Bastok means easy access to not only Korroloka tunnel, a nice but not always popular leveling ground suitable for full xp parties in about the 15-22 range or so, but easy access to Eastern Altepa Desert, the level ground of choice come 30. Western Altepa and Quicksand Caves figure in later on in levels as well; for a while, you're going to have your xp parties be either near Jeuno or near Korroloka. While you can get an Altepa Gate Crystal to allow teleporting here, you may not always be able to get a teleport; chances are that you can get back to your home nation quickly, though, and if that nation is Bastok you're a relatively short run away from the desert.By the time your EXPing in Korroloka or need access to Altepa getting their is pretty much easy for everyone no matter where you're from. Especially since so many Korroloka parties form in the Dunes then all go to Bastok together.

[Lunaryn]

Since your oppertunities for getting the Outpost warp to the other cities starting zones are quite rare, this isn't any more of a benifit to starting in Bastok over any other city. Also, IIRC everyone has immediate access to the Metalworks.
By the time your EXPing in Korroloka or need access to Altepa getting their is pretty much easy for everyone no matter where you're from. Especially since so many Korroloka parties form in the Dunes then all go to Bastok together.

By immediate access, I mean that you can teleport there directly, rather than merely within 5 minutes walk or so.

As for conquering newbie regions, I actually helped Windurst take Gustaberg on Midgardsormr, then helped Bastok take Sarutabaruta the following week. Later Bastok managed to take Ronfaure. Sadly for my San d'Orian friend, Sandy didn't react much to this.

Newbie regions fall occasionally on Midgardsormr, but it can take a long time. Particularly now that the hyper-inflationary economy is gone, it's no longer trivial to farm up a couple hundred thousand gil and blow it all on cheap ammo from NPCs.

[Sabaron]

I was looking over the mining guides and ended up going to Yughott Grotto (for the first time to mine) because I wanted to see if it was any good... It appeared to be from the list of things--Iron being the most frequent acquisition, and since I like mining for some odd reason and I'm trying to skill up on Iron Chains without paying for it, I went.

There were no people mining in Yughott other than myself afaik (I didn't see anyone mining nor wearing gear for mining). I made one full pass of the mine and found that among the 18 mining spawn points that there were.... 2 active points--2. Now, this does not take into account the possibility of a mining point respawn ahead of me and if mining points can pop on the same spot (thus allowing you to dig up more than one thing), then there was one point with 3 points on it. The 18 mining points yielded 3 iron ore and 1 pebble, so there are as few as 1 mining point and as many as 4 depending on how mining spawns work.

This mine has to be the pinnacle of crapulence among mines. Do not go there--no one else does for a reason.

Obviously, however if you take 6 people, you can easily mine all 18 points and each get a nice bit of usage out of the mine, but since there's no one there, it's pointless. Mining becomes -better- the more people are doing it up to the point at which there is one miner for each spawn which is optimal.

[Icemage]

I spent a lot of time at Yughott Grotto. It's not nearly as bad as you make it sound, though I should note that the optimal number of miners here is about 2-3. Once you get used to where the points spawn, it's not hard to check them all.

In its defense, it's one of the only minable zones in the game that can be reasonably effectively mined solo and without fear of getting aggro. It's not effecient, but you can at least hit all the points without bending over backwards (something which is not true at all in Gusgen, Ifrit's, Palborough, Oldton, Newton, or Halvung). The only other zone that is minable solo is Zeruhn Mines, really. Gusgen is borderline possible solo, but it's slower than Yughott and yields about the same quality of ores while being less accessible unless you happen to be WHM58/BLM29+.


Icemage

[Sabaron]

I guess I'm just used to Zeruhn... It's really easy to mine Zeruhn, but Zinc, Bronze, Brass, and Copper aren't as nice as they used to be. Zeruhn always has a few a couple miners in it.. I might have to try Yughott again on a weekend when there's likely to be more people there (and do a search in advance to look for /anon's).

In other news... I just did survey's of Newton and Halvung... Deadly mines... I noted that most of the MP spawns were guarded, though Halvung looked a bit more accessible than Newton because the passage points only have Magmatic Erucas (that Zzz between 2100 and 0600). A couple points, however, are guarded by trolls (and a nasty Truesight NM troll named Dorgerwor the Astute who Zarbzaned me twice as I was Warping...