A few ? about BST

[Antivomit]

1.) I can't find any information on BST/RNG, good or bad, why?

2.) When your pet becomes untamed and you kill it, do you get full xp?

3.) What range of play do you get a /BST? What do you miss out on by subbing it instead of main?

4.) What is the difference of calling a pet familiar and taming it? How do the jugs work?

[Haggai]

1.) Because subbing RNG to BST doesn't bring many benefits... BST already has Widescan and has no Ranged skill. That and you need the ammo slot for jugs.

2.) You get no EXP for killing a pet. Well, unless you've let it regen life back to full.

3.) You can charm decently /BST, better if your BST is @ 75... You miss out on jug pets, and you don't get Leave until 70.

4.) Jug pets are generally weaker than their wild counterparts. To call a pet, you equip the jug of the desired pet in your Ammo slot and use the ability "Call Beast"

[samarium]

1) BST don't have any skill in ranged weapons on their own, and RNG really doesn't provide much that'd help you stay alive, like cure yourself or remove status ailments.

2) Nope.

3) It's widely speculated that your ability to charm stuff is based on the full level of your bst, even when it's subbed; I.E. a whm30/bst30 will charm better than whm30/bst15, even though it will read the same in both cases. Aside from lower chr and the loss of certain abilities (leave until 70, stay at 30, etc) it's totally possible to level a job as /bst.

4) Jug pets are weaker. You equip a broth item in the ammo slot and use the ability, and the pet will stay around for 15-30 minutes based on what jug you used. They're weaker than a charmed pet of the same level, and a few levels below you. Also, they won't attack you when they come uncharmed, simply disappear.

-sam

[elanria]

1.) No idea.

2.) You get NO exp if you kill a pet that becomes untamed.

3.) Why would you want to sub BST? You cannot charm the mobs you are exp'ing on.

4.) Calling a familiar (using a jug) calls a pet that is usually in the DC range. Occasionally, you'll call one that is closer to your level, but it's rare. Jugs are mainly used in emergencies, or in BCNM's. Charming a pet is almost always a better idea if you're going after normal exp mobs.

[Antivomit]

3.) Why would you want to sub BST? You cannot charm the mobs you are exp'ing on.

What do you mean? I can't charm with /BST?

[Haggai]

Also, they won't attack you when they come uncharmed, simply disappear.
I thought jug pets never come uncharmed... they just die or you "Leave" them

3.) Why would you want to sub BST? You cannot charm the mobs you are exp'ing on.
Yeah you can, I do it as BLM66/BST20 all the time for kicks.

[neighbortaru]

3.) Why would you want to sub BST? You cannot charm the mobs you are exp'ing on. actually, this is a common misconception. Your chance of charm is dependent on the actual level of your BST, not the subbed level. So if your BST is 75 and you sub it on say WHM 30, there's a very good chance you'll be able to charm XP mobs (but shouldn't because it'll kill your party XP).

[Antivomit]

So would RNG/BST be worth anything?

[samarium]

So would RNG/BST be worth anything?

Sure. You charm monsters, toss them at your target until it's weak, then Sidewinder it. :evil:

I thought jug pets never come uncharmed... they just die or you "Leave" them

Indeed they do - jug pets have a hidden timer. Once that timer is up the jug pet will automatically despawn, although you can force them to disappear with Leave.

-sam

[neighbortaru]

So would RNG/BST be worth anything? not for an XP party

[LyonheartLakshmi]

1.) I can't find any information on BST/RNG, good or bad, why?
This was actually discussed in the stickie Party vs All Other Sub Discussion (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/beastmaster/30367-party-vs-all-other-sub-discussion.html). Look toward the end of the 2nd page.

So would RNG/BST be worth anything? The folks over in the RNG forum can probably give you a lot of insight into that. They even have the same exact stickie regarding party sub vs other sub.

In general, /BST can work if you want to solo. If you want to be your best in an exp pt, there's certainly better options.

[pearlsea]

So would RNG/BST be worth anything?

RNG/BST would be like WoWs hunter, where your pet tanks for you and you DD with ranged attacks, if you are going to try to solo with this i would use an x-bow and the various status bolts.

[Antivomit]

If you were a lvl 9- 10 BST and you tried to fight Spiny Spipi (normally fought at around lvl 13-15 I think) would that be a hard thing to do? Or can BST charm a high enough mob to be able to fight it? And If fighting a NM or BCMN do you get full loot or does the drop rate decrease like the xp does?

[pearlsea]

Im very sure a bst could solo it, might be a little hard because of the lower level and not alot of access to higher abilitys/spells but im sure its doable, and pets do not have ANY effect on drops.

[samarium]

If you were a lvl 9- 10 BST and you tried to fight Spiny Spipi (normally fought at around lvl 13-15 I think) would that be a hard thing to do? Or can BST charm a high enough mob to be able to fight it? And If fighting a NM or BCMN do you get full loot or does the drop rate decrease like the xp does?

You could probably take Spipi by marathoning pets against it - charming everything in the area one by one and tossing it at the nm until it's dead.

Full loot as normal. Some people had once theorized that bst actually got more drops because you plus your pet equals two characters and thus two shots at the drop, but of course it was only conjecture. :thumbsup:

And yeah, anything /bst is not for use in standard xp parties; there are far better options for party play.

-sam

[Antivomit]

How many pets can you have charmed at the same time? Can you use jugs of broth before lvl 23?

[samarium]

How many pets can you have charmed at the same time? Can you use jugs of broth before lvl 23?

One and no.

-sam

P.S. But see here (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Jug_pets) for a complete list of the jugs, what level they're first available to use and an estimate as to what their maximum level is. =]

[tdh]

And If fighting a NM or BCMN do you get full loot or does the drop rate decrease like the xp does?As Sam mentioned, there has been speculation over the years that pets take on the same subjob abilities as you do. DRG/THFs have thought that they recieved an extra Treasure Hunter with their Wyvern, but there has been no way to test this out, and could just be wishful thinking.

To date there has been no proof that Pets (Wyvern, Avatars, BST Pets jug or otherwise) of any kind have any effect on drops.

BST & RNG both have access to Wide Scan at Lv.1, however RNG Wide Scan is more powerful than BST's. RNG's Wide Scan also gets better as you level. That being said, do you notice any difference between /BST37 and /RNG37? If you do, that would be the only benefit from subing RNG for BST. If the answer is no, then as everybody else has pointed out there's no use in subing RNG. (Hell, even if the answer is yes, I still can't see this being a big enough reason to ever sub RNG for BST.)

[IfritnoItazura]

1.) I can't find any information on BST/RNG, good or bad, why?

I'd think BST/RNG is usable during Lv.20-29, if you're in a traditional 6/6 party--but not for range attack use.

Basically, it's for /RNG's "Accuracy Bonus" job trait, which is a free Accuracy+10. (I partied on DRG/RNG in those levels; it seemed to work ok, but hard to tell since DRG's are naturally overpowering in those levels.)

That said, in the Lv.20-29 range, there are a couple more odd subjobs which can work:

BST/NIN: Dual wield Axe for slight DoT improvement, mostly. It really shines at Lv.28, when you can dual wield Military Picks for very nice damages. Lv.24+ will also give you access to Utsusemi: Ichi for pulling--which also may be useful for staying alive when you have a bad tank who keep losing the mobs to every DD and healer.

BST/DRG: Jump and Attack Bonus; Jump gets you TP faster (and helps you do more damage), and Attack Bonus is a free Attack+10 (which also helps with damage).


Of course, solo'ing/duo'ing BST's should not be using /RNG or /DRG at all. ^_^;

Oh yeah, using /DRG or /RNG as support job will lower your invite rate to parties, since most people will think you're a noob, even though those jobs do more for a DD BST than /WAR between Lv.20-29.

(Disclaimer: My BST is only 22, and I think of BST as a boardline leech in parties before jug pets since there's really nothing around they can charm around most normal camp sites.)

[Zempten]

On the topic of questions about BST . . .

What do most of you guys prefer to do?
A) Fight along side with your pet
B) Have you pet chip away mobs HP to like 10% and you finish it off yourself.

I would think that Option A would net faster exp, but I can't really tell.

I'm currently duoing with another BST and I'm trying to figure out which is the best way to go about things. Currently we're just charming Birds, Saplings and fighting Tigers and Goblins in Ballista Downs at lvl 26/27. Anyone have any advice?

Thanks again

[Aeni]

BST/RNG would probably work best if:

1) They actually get skills in range.
2) Items to improve that.
3) Have permanent pets.
4) Have pets with provoke.

So, when all of this gets implemented...

1) SE makes the changes
2) ????
3) Profit! ... as a hunter.

[pearlsea]

On the topic of questions about BST . . .
What do most of you guys prefer to do?
A) Fight along side with your pet
B) Have you pet chip away mobs HP to like 10% and you finish it off yourself.
I would think that Option A would net faster exp, but I can't really tell.
At the lower levels its hard to manage hate so you should only start meleeing once your pet has established hate but currently at 71 when i level bst i start meleeing right away and if i get hate i can just cast more shadows and by the time im finished casting my pet has hate again, pets generaly will hold hate better after level 40. But this does not apply to bombs or dolls which you should never melee unless its under 5% health, instead you should throw pets at it so you can give it tp to make it self destruct.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

What do most of you guys prefer to do?
A) Fight along side with your pet
B) Have you pet chip away mobs HP to like 10% and you finish it off yourself.
I prefer to start meleeing with my pet as long as I'm fairly sure I won't need to do another pet swap before finishing the mob. Doing Bostaunieux Oubliette from 53 - 58 was really nice. Since slimes can take a lot of punishment, I would only need one pet per mob, and could start meleeing along side it almost immediately.

I've never duo'ed, but I'm guessing that you don't need to do any pet swaps between 2 BSTs and their 2 pets all pounding on one mob. In a duo, the only reason I see not to melee along side your pets early on is if the mob does some nasty AoE moves, like Self Destruct or Meltdown.

[Haggai]

Indeed they do - jug pets have a hidden timer. Once that timer is up the jug pet will automatically despawn, although you can force them to disappear with Leave.

Wow, you learn something new everyday.

[Zempten]

Another question

From lvl 29-75, what gear (weapons and armor included) do you guys think a BST should defeintly keep at eye on?

[Liquidedust]

Another question

From lvl 29-75, what gear (weapons and armor included) do you guys think a BST should defeintly keep at eye on?

Rule of thumb:
Gear as a WAR for TP + WS
Slap on CHR, AF and a Light/Apollo Staff for Charming

[Zempten]

Another question.

Should I stick with Raging Axe till Rampage? Or isAvalance Axe okay as well?

[tdh]

Another question.
Should I stick with Raging Axe till Rampage? Or isAvalance Axe okay as well?As WAR I've found that Avalance Axe stunk, and that was w/ the help of Berserk. So I've been sticking w/ Raging, and doing well.

[pearlsea]

Another question.
Should I stick with Raging Axe till Rampage? Or isAvalance Axe okay as well?
Raging axe is the best axe weaponskill till spinning axe, then once you get rampage use that for the rest of your bst carrier ^^b.

[Zempten]

I see

One more question, sorry ; ; I just so filled up with questions.

I've looked on ffxi.somepage.com and saw this axe ,De Saintre's Axe, and i was wondering what exactly does Charm +1 mean? Is it 1%? Do any of you guys notice a difference with it?

Really appreciate all your help ^ ^ Please bare with all my questions. Thank you again!

[pearlsea]

Im not trying to be rude when i only post links to ffxiclopedia but most of the time they can explain it better then i can.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Charm_Plus

[Thoronas]

That link is handy for finding gear that has +charm but it doesn't really say what +charm does.

+Charm gear adds time to the duration your charm will last. It becomes handy once you have your full af because you will have about +20 added to your charm duration. I've never been able to figure out how much time it adds since depending on the mobs lvl vs you it will change but with that much added time to your charms you can use low tough mobs as pets and have them last almost an entire fight without uncharming and coming after you.

When I was 61 I went to caedarva mire to exp and all the saplings were T but since I was in full af I could charm them pretty easily and they'd stay with me for about 4 mins max which is perfect since most fights solo shouldnt last much longer than that if you want anywhere decent exp. So I basically used T pets and got exp like I was lvl 62-63 (since my pets were determining my exp). It was some of the best exp I ever got (chain 3-4 for up to 650 with ring on).

[Zempten]

Ah, I see.

So if I understand correctly CHR is used to lower resistance and Charm gear is used to increase charm duration. However, do we have to keep the Charm gear on us for it to work? or is it only used for the initial charm?

[tdh]

Ah, I see.
So if I understand correctly CHR is used to lower resistance and Charm gear is used to increase charm duration. However, do we have to keep the Charm gear on us for it to work? or is it only used for the initial charm?Only for the actual use. Same way gear swaps work for spells.

As long as the gear is equiped when the spell or ability actually finishes, you gain the effect of the gear. So if you start casting an Elemental spell, and then equip INT+40, as long as the INT+40 is equip'd and in effect when the spell fires off you gain the benefit. Well Job Abilities usually instant, so you'd have to have all the CHR and Charm+ gear at the time of Charm.

CHR & Light Staff help prevent Charm resists, and it turns out Charm+ helps with Charm duration. (Something I did not know until I saw this. Thanks!) Once a mob is Charmed, you can put the CHR gear, Charm+, and Light Staff away in favor of Acc or Atk items, and an Axe or whatever weapon you choose.

[Zempten]

Okay, really sorry for this but need to ask this.

Currently I'm lvl 39 and I find that I still can't meele with my pet safely. Approximately how long do I have to wait into the battle before I can safely meele with my pet? The problem from what I see is that if I wait too long my pet dies too fast and if I go too early I get smacked like a playtoy. Do I still have to play like the "grab multiple mobs and throw at prey" way?

Oh BTW, I'm BST/WAR so I can berserk for those last 5% and hopefully I can use Defender as well. I know about BST/WHM. If it makes that huge of difference I'll give a go again.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Normally, I wait 3 to 4 hits from my pet before I join the fight. However, I'm also going as BST/WHM. As /WAR, you get the additional benefit of an Attack Bonus job trait, and higher STR and DEX. All of that adds up to a bit more damage (and thus more hate) than a similarly equipped /WHM.

You can stay with /WAR if you absolutely want to. Just unlock your target during battle. Pay attention to whether or not your pet has whiffed multiple times in a row and/or if you have hit for critical damage multiple times in a row. If you suspect you are about to draw hate, or have already pulled hate and the mob is smacking you around, just turn yourself away from the mob. Let your pet land several hits before you turn back to facing the mob.

As far as /WHM vs /WAR...

You must be facing some excruciating downtime whenever you do draw hate. As /WAR, you don't have any Cure spells to cut down on that down time you suffer from taking damage. Also, when you ding 40, /WHM could give you Sneak. Sneak is going to allow you exp in some of the better solo leveling spots.

Oh, and btw, you won't get Defender until lvl 50. At that point, mobs will be hitting you for anywhere between 60 and 100, and crits will be even worse. Defender might cut it down... a little. But you'll still take a beating and your attack will go in the gutter while that happens (so if you were planning to use it at the end of the fight, after you Leave your pet... well, think again).

[pearlsea]

Okay, really sorry for this but need to ask this.
Currently I'm lvl 39 and I find that I still can't meele with my pet safely. Approximately how long do I have to wait into the battle before I can safely meele with my pet? The problem from what I see is that if I wait too long my pet dies too fast and if I go too early I get smacked like a playtoy. Do I still have to play like the "grab multiple mobs and throw at prey" way?
Oh BTW, I'm BST/WAR so I can berserk for those last 5% and hopefully I can use Defender as well. I know about BST/WHM. If it makes that huge of difference I'll give a go again.

If you don't want a mage subjob but don't want lots of downtime you get from /war you should look into subbing ninja, it lets you block up to 6 shadows at a time so your pet can regain hate before you start taking damage and you can use the ever popular dual wield trait to use 2 axes.

[Thoronas]

I really wouldn't recommend warrior at any lvl before 50, because at 50 you can equip crow gear which drastically reduces your enmity. You only need one piece (preferably legs or head) and you should be able to melee with your pets almost right from the beginning. Nin or whm is really the way to go, especially at the later lvls when the mobs you wants are all aggro and its damn near impossible to camp without sneak and or invis.

If you really are going to melee with your pet as bst/war you are going to have to get use to two things. 1) Your pets are still weak and will have most of the hate they generate negated by your preys superior attacks. 2) More often than not you will have to use 2 pets to finish off any T mob and only with the second pet should you be meleeing.

Someone suggested going bst/nin and I think that would be better because even if you pull hate you won't take damage right away. By the time your shadows are down (and you've recast once to prolong it) your pet should have built up enough hate to tank again. So in some cases you could melee with your first pet and not need a 2nd one.

Just remember the common knowledge of the thousands of bst before you. Solo whm/rdm/nin are king. In a party bst/war is an excellent DD.

[Zempten]

I see, thanks for all your help once again.

[Zempten]

Oh another question ^ ^

I've noticed that I could use Sic before my pet has 100% TP and once my pet hits 100% TP it will use it's move. By doing so I can practically guarentee that my pet will always fire off it's move at 100% TP. However is there any drawbacks to this?

Also, I know H2H has dmg bonus on undead and piercing has dmg bonus on flying type creatures, however does Axe have anything like that?

[pearlsea]

Sic is bugged so sometimes if you use it before you get tp it will never use an tp move till your next sic is ready but its not so bad considering i have gotten both silence gas and dark spore within 5 seconds out of fungy :P

Also all the info you can posibly need about damage types on ffxiclopedia http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Blunt

[Thoronas]

The only real downside to using sic on a mob before your pet has 100% tp is that if you use heel or stay and then have them reattack the same mob then they won't do the tp move.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

I prefer not to do Sic before my pet gets 100% TP because of the hate spike I get from it. If you wait until your pet has 100% TP, your pet will get extra hate from its TP move at about the same time you get a hate spike from using Sic. I've gotten smacked by the mob a few times because of this.

I suppose you could run outside hate gaining range of the mob, and then use Sic, and then run back to melee. However, using Sic early in this fashion has one more problem. Many pets have an AoE move that they can potentially use. And if you use Sic before your pet has enough TP, you have less control over exactly when the TP move is used. So even though there are no passive mobs in range of an AoE move when you use Sic, one might wander over by the time your pet has built up that 100% TP.

[Thoronas]

One way to get sic off without pulling hate is to use it before your pet even hits the mob. If you know your pet wont link when he uses his tp move you can click your macro for fight and while your pet is moving towards the mob use your sic macro as well. Since you did it before the mob was hit you won't pull hate and your sic timer will be ready that much sooner.

[Zempten]

Pearlsea, thanks again for your links ^ ^ They really do help. So from what the charts say . . . . . . basically Axe gets 0 DMG bonus, right? Since everything is either 1 or .75. I remeber reading that pets are considered as Blunt, is that correct? or did I imagine reading it?

Thanks everyone for your opinons on using sic ^ ^ They really help. I've noticed that when I do use Sic in the middle of the battle I get hate, but if I hit my /fight and then /sic macro fast enough I don't get hate when the mob uses TP.

Anyways, thanks a ton guys! Your really helping me understand the job better and better

[Tadacho]

limitbreak radio's latest podcast have made me want to start on BST (well take it to 37 before other jobs)... but doesn't all that solo'ing take a really long time compared to what a pt could achieve in the same time?

[LyonheartLakshmi]

limitbreak radio's latest podcast have made me want to start on BST (well take it to 37 before other jobs)... but doesn't all that solo'ing take a really long time compared to what a pt could achieve in the same time?
If you only take into account just the time you spend fighting mobs, then probably. But you should also take into account the time you spend waiting around for a party. As BST, you have to spend exactly 0 hours LFG before you head out to start your solo session, 0 hours waiting for the rest of the party to form, and 0 hours waiting for replacements.

[Tadacho]

If you only take into account just the time you spend fighting mobs, then probably. But you should also take into account the time you spend waiting around for a party. As BST, you have to spend exactly 0 hours LFG before you head out to start your solo session, 0 hours waiting for the rest of the party to form, and 0 hours waiting for replacements.

Hmm, I suppose you're right with that. Although as I've mainly played mage I don't spend too long with my flag up usually.

So, anyhow, where would be the best place to start solo'ing with lvl12 BST? I assume I can't just run over to Valkurm like parties do... Or Can I?

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Parties usually fight mobs that are anywhere between 6 to 10 levels above them. When you solo, you need to have access to pets that are just a little lower than your target prey. And you also need to be able to survive a hit or two during pet swaps. This means that, when you solo, you should target mobs that are 1 to 4 levels above you, using pets that are within at least 2 levels of your level (best case scenario is when they are exactly at your level).

http://ffxi.somepage.com/links/exp_table.html
This link is especially useful. If you take down a mob 4 levels above you, you'll get 200 exp for it, minus the 30% pet penaly if your pet is still alive. If you can chain mobs that are EM to T, you can gain pretty decent exp.

At level 12, I suggest a zone like La Theine or Tahrongi.