Invincible

[Futan]

Hello, i r nub. I'm thinking of becoming a PLD and I have a question: I'm curious when would a situation where you would need to use Invincible occur? I understand the Benediction>Invincible but is there any other situation, in party play, that youd use this? If you have SMN or RDM healing could you just use it 'cause you wanna'? ;p

[Murphie]

It's the sort of thing that you'd want to use if the situation is getting out of control, or if someone else has grabbed aggro and you haven't been able to get it back for whatever reason.

I always saved it for those times when I wanted to give the rest of the party an opportunity to zone. Really though, it's one of those things that you'll figure out as you go, because there really isn't one set circumstance in which you'd want to use it.

[Macht]

Yeah, got to remember those abilities are 2hr abilities. Means you get like a 30sec. - 1 min. effect every 2 hrs. they are helpful to change the tides of a fight that went wrong, but you don't want the fights going bad were you need it more times then you can use.

For me with my Eagle Eye Shot, I don't to often hold on to it if party is doing good. If I feel the party is a bit weak then I'll hold on to the Eagle Eye Shot to help shred off a good chunk of the mobs HP. That ability can do some sickening damage with a well timed chain of Barrage + Sidewinder + Eagle Eye Shot (potential 2k-4k damage totaled 700-1k (Barrage) + 800-2k (Sidewinder) + 500-1k (Eagle Eye Shot). On top of which this chain of 3 attacks is possible to release within 1 cycle of attacks which is why it can be so powerful.

[DakAttack]

It's good in Dynamis. You can take a few extra hits, or pull hate from a mage who's dropped a few spells too quickly, or pull hate back onto yourself when something uses Hundred Fists.

[Celeal]

If my mp is very low, or situation goes out of control, sometimes I would use Invincible, swap in dark staff and /heal. After Invincible is over, I would have a decent amount of mp again.

[Lmnop]

>.> that's kinda brilliant. Use invincible and just rest with a mob hitting you for 0. :P I'm totally trying that.

I feel that in pretty much any situation that you use Invincible, you may as well pop Berserk. Defense does you no good so you may as well contribute more to the damage pool and garner even more hate.

[Murphie]

Keep in mind that it only protects you against physical damage. :( Magical damage will still kick your ass, Invincible or not.

[FranckKnight]

Yeah, Invincible is only against physical attacks, magical still get through. That said, there are numerous reasons to use it.

Invincible is the biggest hate getter in the game proper, althought a Benediction that cures some 5000 HP total is pretty rough. When the mage is getting owned, its the best way to counter that by getting it back on you.

In normal EXP party, the only time you'd really use it is when in a bad situation, such as a link, and the mages's mp suffer too much to take it out properly. 30-45s of invincibility will give your mages a few seconds to rest without problem, get the hate on you, allow you to heal yourself uninterrupted if you still have some MP, and damage the mob to a level that might be more manageable for the overeal weakened party.

Against bosses and certain mobs, especially Monks, its a life saver. When the mob pops Hundred Fists, there's just about only Invincible that will counter that properly. It will keep the mob hitting on you for 0 damage while you concentrate on finishing it up as fast as possible. You'll find those in missions once in a while, and plenty of them in Dynamis.

The Thief's Perfect Dodge is very similar in the way it avoids all physical damage, but I'm not sure it has the same hate generation. Invincible is still one the best 2H there is, no matter your level.

[Jei]

Perfect dodge generates nothing. It's there so you can lolflee to safety while all your friends are dieing, like a thief :)

[Eauijhkuu]

C'mon Jei.
We're more loyal to our teammates than that :x (If anything, we'll warp right afterwards) ^^;

From what I've experienced. PLD's Invincible is one of the only skills that actually matches WHM's Benediction hate.

Which is...AWESOME.

It's been a lifesaver combo for me plenty of times.

[Karinya]

The main use for Invincible I find in normal parties is for links. Flash the original mob, provoke the link and Invincible + Berserk, you have very solid hate from both of them. Even if the link resists sleep, it will probably stay on you rather than going after the mage/bard. And it won't do any physical damage. (Berserk lasts much longer than invincible, so you probably want to cancel it when invincible wears off.)

It's also very useful in some NM and HNM fights, particularly Seiryu and Dynamis Lord.

[Eauijhkuu]

I static with a PLD ( a mighty fine one at that ).

Irregardless of the fact that he gimps himself as a mithra.
But when push comes to shove, I would probably slap him for using a two hour on a link that we could probably handle by other methods.

I guess I'm saying, a PLD shouldn't have to two hour just to maintain a link. :P

[Empedocles]

It's also worth bearing in mind that Invincible is more effective when hate is already on you. (Through several experiences, I believe this to be correct.)

So if a White Mage is going to pop a Benediction, or the Red Mage wants to have a shot at massive damage with Chainspell Magic Bursting, flick on Invincible and tell 'em to let rip. :thumbsup:

[Armando]

Celeal, that's a nice trick. I've thought of it, but dismissed it quickly since at best you get about 25 MP back. 51+ with a Dark Staff, though...if you're really hurting that much for MP, I could see it being useful, since you could get back 45+ MP.

And yeah, this is one of those things that just depends on your common sense and best judgement.

Regarding Invincible vs Magic: It should be noted that Invincible will stop physical Blue Magic. For that matter, Airy Shield will stop the ranged Blue Spells (Feather Storm, Queasyshroom, etc...) and Magic Barrier will NOT stop physical Blue Spells.

Regarding Invincible vs Perfect Dodge: I'm fairly sure Perfect Dodge doesn't generate any significant hate, like Jei said. The main advantage to Perfect Dodge is that it doesn't allow attacks to land, period, so it bypasses their added effects as well. Also, I've heard that ranged attacks bypass Perfect Dodge, while Invincible will cause them to hit for 0.

[Kirsteena]

Ranged and magic will get through PD.

[Loial]

Invincible used to be absolute hate for almost the full duration. I don't believe it is any longer. From my experience, it seems to only act as powerful as an extra provoke.

Let's not recommend the OP to be so quick as to hit your 2-hour just because you lose hate and don't have any hate tools immediately ready. That is probably not the best use for it.

Shadowbind/Bind is a good way to counter Hundred Fists without using a 2-hour.

[Slip]

Another use for Invincible is exploring, especially for missions or quests where you have to go somewhere hyper dangerous. Bring some method of Warping with you, either /Blm, Treat Staff II (or is it Trick2?) or even just an Instant Warp scroll and you'll be able to escape cleanly from virtually any bad situation.

In terms of hate gen, Invincible is about the best you'll get but it's definitely not infinite. I've lost hate to another Paladin after I Invincibled and he popped all his JAs. He was 10 levels higher than me, had on more +Emnity and was hitting for significant damage vs my feeble pokes as well but that's all it took to overcome Invinc + Provoke.

[Celeal]

Celeal, that's a nice trick. I've thought of it, but dismissed it quickly since at best you get about 25 MP back. 51+ with a Dark Staff, though...if you're really hurting that much for MP, I could see it being useful, since you could get back 45+ MP.


I forgot to mention "plus" Refresh ^^; Very offen after nasty link, or someone DC'ing and such, there can be downtime after the party survive the battle. With Invincible + /heal + Dark Staff, plus Refresh + the healer /heal at the same time, this method really can keep the exp. chain going.

Perfect dodge generates nothing. It's there so you can lolflee to safety while all your friends are dieing, like a thief

I had partied with one THF that really did this BS after she pull a link at level 45 in C.N Nest's Beetle Camp. Pull link, scream for zone, Flee, and disband.

The worst thing is the melee RDM does not know how to Sleep the link, and the rest of the party run to zone. I end up using Invincible and ask the RDM to sleep the link, but resisted.

Then I ask the RDM to run away, and I use my Scroll of Instant Warp after I was finally alone. Ends up with me eatting dirt in front of Home Point at Port Jenuo because of the stupid lag... negative experience point gain from that party, great, isn't it? LOL

That was before the Mob despawn MPK "fix" btw, such a train and abandon-party behavior is not acceptable >.> /blist add forever~

[Aeni]

Celeal, that's a nice trick. I've thought of it, but dismissed it quickly since at best you get about 25 MP back. 51+ with a Dark Staff, though...if you're really hurting that much for MP, I could see it being useful, since you could get back 45+ MP.

Is this including:

-Autorefresh
-Availability of a VC
-Refresh from a RDM

[Lmnop]

Many things can overcome hate of Invincible, but it is still the biggest single boost to enmity in the game, as far as I can tell. Sure, I've pulled hate off invincible using Mighty Strikes' full duration + WS or 2, and sure Hundred Fists will make you the tank after long enough, but those things take time. Those same methods take hate off of Benediction (Mighty Strikes for full duration, then WHM uses Benediction and you just voke and it comes back to you: Priceless). Also, Even a pre-Nerf RNG doing Sidewinder (or 2) + Barrage + EES doesn't take hate off of Invincible, does it? Even though it's probably more damage than I dish out during Mighty Strikes, for some reason their hate gain doesn't seem as astronomical.

[Aeni]

I've actually pulled off an invincible paladin with a missed SATA + Spinning Slash + Souleater + Last Resort + Blood Weapon (It was already active for a good 15sec). Yes, believe me, it was an accidental miss because the NIN I was suppose to do that opposite of the paladin moved. Sigh.

[Vyuru]

Also, Even a pre-Nerf RNG doing Sidewinder (or 2) + Barrage + EES doesn't take hate off of Invincible, does it? Even though it's probably more damage than I dish out during Mighty Strikes, for some reason their hate gain doesn't seem as astronomical.


I dunno, I think that might be enough hate gain there to take it off of the paladin.

[Aeni]

I dunno, I think that might be enough hate gain there to take it off of the paladin.

LOL yeah. Pre-nerf Barrage would do plenty 1K and a PLD that has to contend with that, an 1,800+ slug shot and EES would NEVER be able to hold off that kind of hate.

:biggrin:

[Armando]

Is this including:

-Autorefresh
-Availability of a VC
-Refresh from a RDMNah, just the part you'd recover from resting (12 + 10 for the first tick, 13 + 10 from the second tick.) Most of that other stuff would be there regardless of whether or not you /rest, so I left it out.

And yeah, it may not be infinite but it's definetely the biggest stand-alone hate-grabber in the game. Plus, you should already be high on the hate last anyways. It's pretty reliable for grabbing hate.

[FranckKnight]

That's the main 'problem' with high level parties. the PLD's job can be tough to keep hate because of the RNG, SAM and WAR loving their high numbers.

I know their job is doing high damage, and they use everything they have to do so. It results in 1500+ damage that is pretty hard to get hate back from with Flash and Provoke. And as they are doing damage throughout the fight, sometimes even using every JA you have (save for Invincible) won't get hate back immediatly.

Then party members complain that the PLD ain't doing his job. :/

That's the main reason alot of PLD go toward being a bit more DD by the time they reach Merit parties. If you can't keep hate, might as well damage a bit more. And that's also the reason alot of PLD don't use Defender anymore at a certain point. Defender only has uses if you're getting hit, because while you don't have the hate, the point of increasing defense, your damage dealing is nerfed badly for its duration.

[Slip]

Invincible is not the answer for Melee's who spam JAs or unleash huge WS's. With the 2 Hr recharge you get to save them once that way.

Cover's the tool we really have for those situations. Yeah it's hard to hold hate off a 1k+ WS but if you've been keeping hate high the whole time it's not at all impossible to earn hate back before Cover wears off.

Skewing towards a DD build can help there too (depending on the mobs). Pld damage isn't comparable to a true DD but the more we can close the gap the easier time our other tools have filling it in.

[Loial]

While sharing hate with another PLD against Tiamat last night, he Invincibled and after about 5 seconds, Tiamat decided to hit the bard instead. You don't need EES, Barrage, WS... or Souleater/BloodWeapon/Kraken Club... or using all your PLD abilities to pull hate off of Invincible.

[Slip]

To be fair, Bard's can generate *way* more hate than a lot of folks realize. Those buffs that effect the entire party? Yeah, mobs aren't so fond of those. Still, interesting to see one rip hate off Invincible...really makes me want to finish leveling Brd up to proper subjob levels so I can try Pld/Brd.

Ah, uninterruptible hate tool bliss how I crave thee! (Can you tell I'll been fighting Marids and Chigoes a lot lately?)

[Jei]

PLD starts casting Mazurka
PLD starts casting Mazurka
PLD starts casting Mazurka
PLD starts casting Mazurka

[Hilde]

hmmm...I have used it:

-Theif pulled an extra Antican in Quicksand Caves, I ended up 2HR so I could cure myself, to tank them both so the mages could get us out w/ escape/tele.

-Coffer Key hunting when about 6 demons realized a mithra was standing infront of them.

I rarely use it, but when I do it's always a good story. Lots of magic flying everywhere and the screen was red with provokes and magic bursts...

Good times.