G.S. bad accuracy?

[Antivomit]

I have a lvl 21 drk in Qufim and was in a party last night. I was switching back and forth between Great Sword and Scythe to lvl them both up. The G.S. i was using was the Platoon Sword (lvl. 20, dmg. 33, delay 444) and the Scythe was the Bastokan Scythe (lvl. 15, dmg 28, delay 440- MP +4, STR. +2, VIT. -1). And even though the Scythe's lvl was much lower than mine, I was connecting about 8/10 times and doing about 25-35 dmg on normal hits. After I got that up from 57 to 60, I started trying to get G.S. from 57 to 60. When i started using the the Platoon, I started doing over 40 dmg with most hits but i would only connect about 5/10 times. I was watching to see if I had any negatives. I would get either Acc. Down or Eva. Down every other fight and I didn't figure those into my stats. We were fighting the same style mobs, worms and crabs (near the lake in the middle of Qufim), the whole time. Is G.S. known for being generally less accurate or did I over look something?

[Tisaragi]

Sounds like just random bad luck. There is no reason you should miss more with gs than scythe when your skill is the same for both. Maybe you were getting it with the acc down less with your scythe.

[Aeni]

There's a slight difference in rating between Scythe and Great Sword. However, at that level, the difference is trivial. Dark Knights have an A+ rating with their Scythe and A- rating with their Great Sword. The difference is only apparent at high levels.

From level 61 and onward, weapon skill ratings get separated from the broad rating categories to specific ones. For example, B rating gets split into B+, B and B-. The exception to these are the A rating (A+ and A-) and D thru F ratings.

http://www.ausystem.org/~aushacho/gbox/ff/skill-e.html

It's a bit outdated, but the core mechanics have not changed one bit in the past two or even three years now. AFAIK, no job class has had their weapon rating altered since CoP expansion, unless someone would like to prove me wrong.


-------------------------

Now that the general idea has been taken care of, what you were experiencing is a phenomenon only to FFXI when switching different weapons on a character in a short time period. I noticed that (And many others have as well) you do not gain skill from a weapon very quickly when you first start to use a weapon, especially if it's your first time in a very long time. You might get a couple of tenths of a point in the skill, but then there will be a lull. For some players, this can be very short, maybe one or two fights before they pickup another skillup. For others, this could be several fights in-between.

This lull will sharply increase the higher you are in character level. At level 64, I can go for 20 minutes using a dagger and not see a single skill point, even if I'm fighting a monster that is appropriate to my current weapon skill level.

Generally, as you cap your skill on your current character level, your accuracy with the weapon increases. When you first reach a new character level (Let's say you just leveled up to 21 on your DRK class) your weapon skills, if previously capped at level 20, are no longer capped anymore. For some strange reason (And I'm sure this is a bug which SE has not addressed yet in the past 3 years I've been playing this game) the act of leveling up and raising your weapon skilll cap decreases your accuracy. It might just be temporary and all you can do is just keep swinging away on the monster. As you start to get points into the skill, the accuracy issue will slowly fade away until you level up again (Unless the monster's level starts to drop quickly to the point where you should be hitting it anyway - like Tough versus Incredibly Tough)

This is the best plausible explanation that I can come up, short of blaming it entirely on the random number generator not spitting out numbers in your favor (This is also an issue which I brought up in another thread on this forum somewhere)

[Sabaron]

The Braveheart (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Braveheart) is a wonderful sword for that level range and has a +5 Accuracy and +2 Dexterity which is basically +6 Accuracy with a little boost (~0.2%) to criticals. It's an excellent sword especially for skillups. It does have one drawback with respect to the Platoon Sword (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Platoon_Sword)--it's damage code is 3 points lower. I think that you'll find, however, that since it's a slow weapon, mitigating misses is much more important than increasing the damage. You can get this for free if you've got a bit of time to camp an easy NM in the Palborough Mines (see Braveheart description for details) as it can be a bit expensive off the Auction House.

Were you eating Sole Sushi (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Sole_Sushi) like a good little level 21 DRK? If you can't afford sushi, at your current low level you can get a similar amount of accuracy from Jack-o'-Lanterns (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Jack-o%27-Lantern) which are currently on sale from the Festival Moogle Vendors for 1000gil each and last for 3 hours. They are otherwise relatively expensive unless you make them yourself.

[Antivomit]

lol, yea, i use squid because I am too poor for the sole. Do the jack 'o's give the exact same stats as the sole?

[Celeal]

I would not recommend sushi before level 45. Try Rice Drumplings --- it offers both +acc and +attack.

Rice Drumplings should give you enough +acc for exp. parties at your level, and it raises your attack too (acc +5, attack +20%, str+, hmp+, etc).

Jack o'Lantern is good in Kazham (acc +10, eva +10, chr -10, 3hr food) because mandy has weak defense in kazham. However, when fighting carbs and pugils in Qufim, I would use rice drumpling for both +acc and +attack.

If you have a WAR in your party that uses Great Axe, coax him to open Shield Break every battle ^^; The evasion down effect from Shield Break (evasion -40 on mob) is stronger than any acc+ food you can get at level 20.

The reason I would not recommend sushi at low level because sushi acc+ is percentage based. If your base accuracy is low, sushi only offers a small accuracy boost.

For example:
1) If your base accuracy is 100, sushi adds 15 accuracy (15% acc bonus).
2) If your base accuracy is 200, sushi adds 30 accuracy (still 15% acc bonus, but doubles the 1st case).
3) If your base accuracy is only at 10, sushi adds 1.5 accuracy.

Just beacuse sushi is expensive, it does not mean it is the best DD food in exp. parties at all levels. From my personal experience, and from what I seen other DD ate, stick to rice drumpling until level 45 is your best bet.

[Antivomit]

Thx for the info.

How much do the dumplings normally cost and does a vendor sell them? Is shield break the same as shield bash? And is that eva. down %100 or how often does it stick (and for how long?)

[lionx]

Shield Bash is a stun move that gathers hate, however Shield Break the weapon skill givies a -40 evasion stat debuff on the monster if unresisted, and i heard it is halved if its partially resisted. lasts 3 minutes i think, and can be overwritten by other stat ups the monster may have (Like evasion boost from beetles...but you shouldnt get that for a while).

[Antivomit]

What lvl do warriors get that skill?

[lionx]

Level 10 Great Axe skill, so unless they NEVER touched a Great Axe...then by the time you are partying they should have it.

[Celeal]

Shield Break is the first weapon skill (TP-move) from Great Axe. Shield Bash is a Job Ablility from PLD that requires a shield to execute.

Shield Break is ice element based and tier 1; it can be resisted or overwritten. The resist affects the duration of evasion down.

If Shield Break is not resisted, evasion-down last 3 minutes.
If it is partially resisted, evasion-down last 1 minutes.
If it is totally resisted, no evasion-down at all (last zero seconds).

However, Shield Break's evasion down is constant -40, regardless of no resist or partially resisted.

Since Shield Break is ice based, it does not work on mobs that have natural resistance to ice element. For example, Bones (undead) has a strong resistance to ice element, so stuff like Blizzard, Paralyze, EnBlizzard, Shield Break... trend to be resisted by Bones.

Shield Break is also tier 1, it can be overwritten by tier 1+ evasion boost. For example, Beetle's evasion boost can overwrite Shield Break's effect --- this is when DD start to whiff and scream at RDM for Dispel ^^;

As for price of Rice Drumplings, it depends on your server ^^;

P.S.
DRK also have B rating on Great Axe, and can equip most Great Axe (only WAR and DRK have natural Great Axe Skill in this game). But since many DRK struggle to cap Great Sword and Scythe, most DRK does not use Great Axe.

[Kitalrez]

Shield Break is a lvl 10 Great Axe WS. If you're using Great Axe at all on DRK, (and near the end of your 30s it'll be far better than your Scythe and Great Sword, strangely), you can use this WS to drastically improve everyone else in the party. It's just that you have to use it at the start of the battle, instead of the end, which is really weird for a lot of melee to get used to. If your Great Axe is not levelled yet, you may want to think about soloing some EP or DC mobs around La Theine or Konschtat to work on it before you party, to get your skills up before you try partying with it. If you have that capped when you can start using GA's like Horror Voulge, you'll be a sight to behold.

Don't worry so much about accuracy at lvl 21. In this phase of the game it's not nearly as important as it is later on. At this stage you may only be hitting 50% of the time, but you're still getting the job done. Later on, when you're facing things like Spiders in Boyada Tree, a 50% hit rate is an opportunity for that spider to take out your tank with another Sickle Slash, so it's much more important. That said, I'm going to break with the other players in this thread and suggest that you might want to go with Meat Dishes instead of Sushis and the like. Meats will up your attack and strength ratings, meaning you hit for more when you do connect. ffxi.somepage.com has a wonderful guide on Food Effects and how to maximize your usage. Right now you'd be looking at Grilled Mutton or Dhalmel Steaks, IIRC. Those are both incredibly cheap to make, and will last you a good chunk of time. I think you can easily level Cooking in your party making them if you bring along the ingredients with you. Right now, though, getting in every hit isn't vital, you may want to look more at increasing the damage when you do hit. If you were an underequipped Taru and having acc issues, my advice would be different, since your max damage would be slightly lower. For everyone else, just work on hitting a little harder when you do connect, you won't notice things dying any faster with lots of ACC.

I kind of look at Sushi as a "catch up" food pre-45. Unless you're drastically underlevelled in your weapon skill, it's not vital that you have sushi in a party. It just feeds munchkin syndrome and e-peen.

[Macht]

There's a slight difference in rating between Scythe and Great Sword. However, at that level, the difference is trivial. Dark Knights have an A+ rating with their Scythe and A- rating with their Great Sword. The difference is only apparent at high levels.
From level 61 and onward, weapon skill ratings get separated from the broad rating categories to specific ones. For example, B rating gets split into B+, B and B-. The exception to these are the A rating (A+ and A-) and D thru F ratings.
http://www.ausystem.org/~aushacho/gbox/ff/skill-e.html
It's a bit outdated, but the core mechanics have not changed one bit in the past two or even three years now. AFAIK, no job class has had their weapon rating altered since CoP expansion, unless someone would like to prove me wrong.
-------------------------
Now that the general idea has been taken care of, what you were experiencing is a phenomenon only to FFXI when switching different weapons on a character in a short time period. I noticed that (And many others have as well) you do not gain skill from a weapon very quickly when you first start to use a weapon, especially if it's your first time in a very long time. You might get a couple of tenths of a point in the skill, but then there will be a lull. For some players, this can be very short, maybe one or two fights before they pickup another skillup. For others, this could be several fights in-between.
This lull will sharply increase the higher you are in character level. At level 64, I can go for 20 minutes using a dagger and not see a single skill point, even if I'm fighting a monster that is appropriate to my current weapon skill level.
Generally, as you cap your skill on your current character level, your accuracy with the weapon increases. When you first reach a new character level (Let's say you just leveled up to 21 on your DRK class) your weapon skills, if previously capped at level 20, are no longer capped anymore. For some strange reason (And I'm sure this is a bug which SE has not addressed yet in the past 3 years I've been playing this game) the act of leveling up and raising your weapon skilll cap decreases your accuracy. It might just be temporary and all you can do is just keep swinging away on the monster. As you start to get points into the skill, the accuracy issue will slowly fade away until you level up again (Unless the monster's level starts to drop quickly to the point where you should be hitting it anyway - like Tough versus Incredibly Tough)
This is the best plausible explanation that I can come up, short of blaming it entirely on the random number generator not spitting out numbers in your favor (This is also an issue which I brought up in another thread on this forum somewhere)


Not certain about what you posted, the experience I've had is a little different and seems to have actual mechanics. I've noticed my character's accuracy varry depending on a few conditions. The conditions I've had were the accuracy actually does change is:


Day's element
Weather effects
Strength + Dexterity (For Melee), Strength + Agility (For Marksman), Str + Dex + Agi (For Archery)
Raising certain elements


It's wierd but I have noticed improvements in my accuracy on Fire, Wind, Thunder, and Light days. However I've notice my accuracy drop in dust storms and windy weather unless I am wearing gear or am buffed to that element.

I had started noticing these when there was conditions that I didn't eat accuracy foods and yet still had accuracy that was matching other members. Also noticing other negative effects when doing specific BCNMs and other fights and notice a very sharp and sudden drop when a mob would debuff me.

I think similar might be happening to you since if you look at your Scythe vs. your Sword the Scythe gives you +2 STR at lv. 21 +2 STR is quite a big bonus at that level.

[Aeni]

Not certain about what you posted, the experience I've had is a little different and seems to have actual mechanics. I've noticed my character's accuracy varry depending on a few conditions. The conditions I've had were the accuracy actually does change is:

Day's element
Weather effects
Strength + Dexterity (For Melee), Strength + Agility (For Marksman), Str + Dex + Agi (For Archery)
Raising certain elements
It's wierd but I have noticed improvements in my accuracy on Fire, Wind, Thunder, and Light days. However I've notice my accuracy drop in dust storms and windy weather unless I am wearing gear or am buffed to that element.

I had started noticing these when there was conditions that I didn't eat accuracy foods and yet still had accuracy that was matching other members. Also noticing other negative effects when doing specific BCNMs and other fights and notice a very sharp and sudden drop when a mob would debuff me.

I think similar might be happening to you since if you look at your Scythe vs. your Sword the Scythe gives you +2 STR at lv. 21 +2 STR is quite a big bonus at that level.

I've noticed that elemental skill and day does not affect melee accuracy. I'm not sure what you posted that for, because that's almost heresy. However, I might be inclined to believe that time of day can affect accuracy, as it makes a lot of sense. At night, you should have lower accuracy than during the day. However, this is where I believe the system stops at. If it goes beyond this point in complexity, like exp'ing in tunnels produce lower accuracy due to the fact you're in an unlit condition (Seriously, ceiling lights in natural and unkept tunnels?) then I'll go eat my hat. THIS GAME SYSTEM IS NOT THAT COMPLEX.

Melee accuracy is dependant primarily on these factors:


Weapon Skill (Both job class proficiency rating in weapon and current skill level in that weapon)
Base Stat (DEX)
Job Abilities
Job Traits
Spells
Enhancements from Equipment/Weapon
Enhancements from Food
Monster Abilities
Monster Job Traits
Monster Spells (which includes Stoneskin, Utsusemi, Avatar Abilities, etc.)
Environmental Factors - These are special cases normally reserved for an event battle, which includes - but is not limited to - BCs, Missions (Assaults are considered repeatable ToAU missions), Quests and Beseiged.
Randomly Generated Coefficient used in determining battle outcomes (aka "rolls") on a per "action" basis.I might be missing a couple of other obvious factors, but these are the ones primarily factored into the formulas SE's battle system uses to determine "checks" with regards to a hit rate. A successful hit is one that is not parried, evaded, blocked or otherwise impeded by an ability or spell. The term "Accuracy" is used in two manners. One is to describe the general hit rate of a situation or someone and the other references to a stat which has a major control over the hit rate of a situation or someone.

[Macht]

Well accuracy for wind condition and dust storm I've only experienced it effect my ranged, not really tried that codition with melee. As far as complexity what I've stated there wasn't complex, it would be using pre-existing mechanics since you can see day's element already effects SMNs Avatars, Mage's Spells, and the likes.

Same goes with Stats since it's already proven that WSs can require a combination of stats to be more effective nothing states that accuracy can't be the same. The only thing stating that DEX effects accuracy is a test that only tested DEX for accuracy never tested possible combination effects.

[Sabaron]

I would not recommend sushi before level 45. Try Rice Drumplings --- it offers both +acc and +attack.
.
.
.
The reason I would not recommend sushi at low level because sushi acc+ is percentage based. If your base accuracy is low, sushi only offers a small accuracy boost.


I did a Pumpkin vs. Sushi (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/items-q/58587-pumpkins-sushi.html) analysis a while back. Rice Dumplings (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Rice_Dumpling) are nice, I eat them with my Red and Blue Mage jobs. The problem is that they only provide +5 Accuracy whereas a Pumpkin gives 10 and, after you hit 66 base accuracy, Sole Sushi will give more accuracy. It also benefits Strength (Damage) and Dexterity (more accuracy + critical hits). The two products are competitively priced in my opinion, at 15k for Dumplings and 30k for Sole Sushi on Asura. Neither is a giant hit to the wallet. The Jack-o'-Lantern was, before the Halloween event, at around 8-10k each and while it may seem economical since it lasts 3 hours, I often find the extra time wasted. Thus my recommendation to buy them from festival moogles or field synthesize them. Food depends on what you need. If a Dumpling doesn't provide enough accuracy, you may want to switch to sushi. I know a lot of melees switch at around 40-50, but there are still benefits to using it at lower levels.

[Raydeus]

Day's element

Weather effects
Strength + Dexterity (For Melee), Strength + Agility (For Marksman), Str + Dex + Agi (For Archery)
Raising certain elements
It's wierd but I have noticed improvements in my accuracy on Fire, Wind, Thunder, and Light days. However I've notice my accuracy drop in dust storms and windy weather unless I am wearing gear or am buffed to that element.

I dunno, but I've noticed weird stuff like that over the years, I think it is possible there are day/element/weather variables that affect different stats since stats are element based.

From weird and almost paranormal stuff I've noticed is how Enspells for one reason or another seem to affect stuff like acc, att and crit rate.

I haven't parsed a thing, and it might be placebo effect for all I know, but the effect is quite noticeable at times to be completely ignored.


Not like it does much of a difference anyway, but it can be really odd. /shrug

[Lmnop]

All A rank weapons are simply A rank 'til 61. Maybe I misunderstood what you were initially saying, Aeni... but all +s and -s do not exist 'til that time. A rank is no exception. And there simply aren't +s or -s for D and down.

I wouldn't be surprised if sandstorms give acc-5 or something. Weather conditions even activate things like Monsoon gear and stuff.

[Ziero]

I did a Pumpkin vs. Sushi (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/items-q/58587-pumpkins-sushi.html) analysis a while back. Rice Dumplings (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Rice_Dumpling) are nice, I eat them with my Red and Blue Mage jobs. The problem is that they only provide +5 Accuracy whereas a Pumpkin gives 10 and, after you hit 66 base accuracy, Sole Sushi will give more accuracy. It also benefits Strength (Damage) and Dexterity (more accuracy + critical hits). The two products are competitively priced in my opinion, at 15k for Dumplings and 30k for Sole Sushi on Asura. Neither is a giant hit to the wallet. The Jack-o'-Lantern was, before the Halloween event, at around 8-10k each and while it may seem economical since it lasts 3 hours, I often find the extra time wasted. Thus my recommendation to buy them from festival moogles or field synthesize them. Food depends on what you need. If a Dumpling doesn't provide enough accuracy, you may want to switch to sushi. I know a lot of melees switch at around 40-50, but there are still benefits to using it at lower levels.

The fact that he barely broke 40 dmg a swing with Scythe and Gsword just *screams* he needs more Att. Sushi, and for the most part any pure Acc food, is all but a waste at those lvls because accuracy isn't really a problem. Unless you overhunt, which is *always* bad for melees, you should not have acc problems. Skill lvl differences and mob eva ratings are so low that you can use E ranked weapons effectively with little difficulty. Killing low IT-VT mobs while using att+ foods makes for faster kills in lower lvls. For a two hander, Att is just as important as Acc, and rice dumplings are the best food for both till 40 easy.

And as far as I'm concerned, a theory isn't worth worrying about until it has *some* kind of scientific testing. Day, time, weather, none of that will stop me from swing my things and chopping stuff up. If it does have any affect on meleeing, it's probably no more noticable then it's affect on magic.

[Sabaron]

I'm more familiar with RDM melee, I suppose.... we need accuracy more than regular melees, but we can get extra damage from our En- spells--even though I still eat Dumplings when meleeing for it's more magey bonuses... The occasional bite of sushi does find its way into my rotation if I'm doing rather poorly.

[Aeni]

I'm more familiar with RDM melee, I suppose.... we need accuracy more than regular melees, but we can get extra damage from our En- spells--even though I still eat Dumplings when meleeing for it's more magey bonuses... The occasional bite of sushi does find its way into my rotation if I'm doing rather poorly.

It's probably more of these things:

(1) Usage of a weapon in which a RDM is least proficient in.

(2) Not having skill in said weapon capped to your current job level.

(3) Not meleeing enough. The difference between you and the "real" melee players in your party is that those players get their paychecks from pure meleeing. A RDM, on the other hand, more often that not, is too busy casting things and that decreases swing attempts, which lowers proper hit rate.

(4) Not properly geared for meleeing. Look at what a WAR or MNK would wear. If a RDM can wear that and if you plan on meleeing a lot, that is what you should be equipped with, not +MND and +INT gear.

I always melee when soloing monsters that aren't difficult (Kiting is the other option in that case) This is when gearing as a mage or as a melee shouldn't matter if your skills are not woefully behind. On exp monsters, however, the differences with gear starts to matter a lot more.

[Aeni]

I haven't parsed a thing, and it might be placebo effect for all I know, but the effect is quite noticeable at times to be completely ignored.

There are equipment and weapons that have latent effects which are triggered by weather. Maybe that's the cause? Monsoon Kyahan comes to mind...

[Aeni]

All A rank weapons are simply A rank 'til 61. Maybe I misunderstood what you were initially saying, Aeni... but all +s and -s do not exist 'til that time. A rank is no exception. And there simply aren't +s or -s for D and down.

From level 61 and onward, weapon skill ratings get separated from the broad rating categories to specific ones. For example, B rating gets split into B+, B and B-. The exception to these are the A rating (A+ and A-) and D thru F ratings.

I wouldn't be surprised if sandstorms give acc-5 or something. Weather conditions even activate things like Monsoon gear and stuff.

With latency, I can see that, but with something more systematic and concrete, like calculating a hit success, I don't think it would. The reason why I think this is because, unlike the PS2, PC users can turn off their weather effect effectively removing that from the game. If something that should be so fundamental to the game itself can become an option to a player, then I cannot see it being a serious tool for SE to use for in-game mechanics.

However, it's been reported that SE's programmers have rigged the game in weird ways, so there's a small chance that you might be right Lmnop and that SE's system takes almost everything in this game into consideration. If that is the case, however, one makes you wonder how something like a PS2 has enough processsing power after all that to render the characters on screen.

:eek:

[Lmnop]

From level 61 and onward, weapon skill ratings get separated from the broad rating categories to specific ones. For example, B rating gets split into B+, B and B-. The exception to these are the A rating (A+ and A-) and D thru F ratings.

Bolded the part that confused me.

With latency, I can see that, but with something more systematic and concrete, like calculating a hit success, I don't think it would. The reason why I think this is because, unlike the PS2, PC users can turn off their weather effect effectively removing that from the game. If something that should be so fundamental to the game itself can become an option to a player, then I cannot see it being a serious tool for SE to use for in-game mechanics.

Just because you filter the damage your party does, doesn't mean they don't do that damage. You choose what input you will limit to your connection. When you disable weather effects, they're still active. They'll still activate your Monsoon Tekko. You just don't see it. What I was saying was -- just like light's day occasionally boosting cure, a sandstorm may apply a static penalty to PC accuracy. I don't really believe this to be the case, and if it were, it'd prolly be -2 or so. Nothing horrendous. But it wouldn't be that hard for the game to do. And it's not like it'd affect PS2 users because if that sort of calculation were done client-side, you'd see hacks that make it so PC users are "never affected by sandstorms" or what-have-you. Well, while you're at it... calculations run client side could mean potential to hack your beestinger's DMG to 100.

[Mhurron]

I would not recommend sushi before level 45. Try Rice Drumplings --- it offers both +acc and +attack. Very little. Using an A rated weapon, you'll get more ACC (assuming capped skill) from sushi then from either Dumplings or Lanterns at around lvl20.

Gear up with +STR as you can, and by the late 20's use what sushi you can afford and the damage you'll do with the much higher ACC will far out weigh what you would do with the smaller ACC+ and little ATT+ you'll get from dumplings.

Dumplings and Lanterns are good for when you want some ACC with the other stats they boost instead of just ACC and having to get those other stats from elsewhere.

[Celeal]

Very little. Using an A rated weapon, you'll get more ACC (assuming capped skill) from sushi then from either Dumplings or Lanterns at around lvl20.

Gear up with +STR as you can, and by the late 20's use what sushi you can afford and the damage you'll do with the much higher ACC will far out weigh what you would do with the smaller ACC+ and little ATT+ you'll get from dumplings.

Dumplings and Lanterns are good for when you want some ACC with the other stats they boost instead of just ACC and having to get those other stats from elsewhere.

Rice Drumpling:
HP +17
Strength +3
Vitality +2
Agility +1
Attack +20% (Cap: 45@225 Base Attack)
Ranged Attack +30% (Cap: 45@150 Base Ranged Attack)
HP Regeneration While Healing +2
MP Regeneration While Healing +2
Accuracy +5
Resist Paralyze

If 20% attack increase is regarded as "little ATT+", then what is 25% attack increase from Beserk?

Before level 40, there is only a few acc+ gear and attack+ gear available for most melee. A few acc+ gear and a few attack+ gear, eat rice drumpling to bridge the gap.

Between level 40 and 59, there is enough acc+ gear option for DD, but still lack of attack+ gear. I would stick to meat, only use sushi for over-hunt (lowest level range in party)...

After level 55, the amount of attack+ gear options open up. I would said sushi starts to mix well with gear that that level...


At level 20, there isn't much gear options for sushi build that gives enough attack for xp mobs. You need both STR and Attack, and attack benefits more on 2 handed weapons.

[Aeni]

Celeal,

The other night, I was out exp'ing on my NIN with another NIN friend. While we weren't the highest level in the party, we weren't the lowest. I had some dhalmal pie somewhere halfway when I was disastisfied with my damage on the crawlers in CN (at 34) and my friend was wanting to know if he should pop some steamed crabs since he was the main tank (I was offtank) We had bream sushi up to this point...

My hit rate nosedived. Katana. Capped skills. Yes, I whiffed on those crawlers like mad. After the meat wore off, I went back to sushi and was able to maintain hate as an offtank again.

What Mhurron said is correct. I had another NIN friend that used dumplings and let me tell you, for the 40K a stack it costs on Hades (Versus 9k squid sushi) it's very disappointing and hardly made any difference for her. Either Somepage is lying about the stat listed or something is off with the food. I seriously doubt those things can give that much bonuses. Sounds fishy to me.

[Aeni]

Bolded the part that confused me.

Meaning that A is only 2 rankings (+ and -) and that D, E and F don't have any rankings within (Just ... D, E and F ... no +s or -s)

A+ A-
B+ B B-
C+ C C-
D
E
F

[Antivomit]

How are the foods "Shark Fin Soup", "Navarin", or "Boiled Tuna Head" for DRK?

[Sabaron]

3-hour foods are not generally the best for party. They have a tendency to be expensive and I've found you waste a lot of your food-time unless you get a good {long time} {party} with low down-time and you don't die.

Boiled tuna head looks promising, it's got a little power in there for your DRK spells which could help keep you off your knees, but Rice Dumplings do this as well, are more readily available, and (probably) cheaper, so it's out.

Shark fin is a High Cap Low % attack food with no accuracy; it's better for high levels--probably base attack above 465, but Hedgehog Pies are better. Shark Fin has HP% and hph bonuses... I doubt these would be useful for DRK in exchange for the bonuses from Hedgehog Pies.

Navarin is recommended for 56-120 base attack, but doesn't provide any Accuracy. If you're not having accuracy problems, it would be a good bet.

Information collected from Somepage's Food Page (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/food.php).

[Antivomit]

Thx for the info.

[Sabaron]

I'd like to add: For a melee, like DRK, Roast Mutton is probably better than Navarin unless you plan on using a ranged attack since it's cheaper, you can probably cook it in the field if you've got a bit of skill, and more available since the ingredients can all be purchased from commonly claimed regional merchants.

[Celeal]

Celeal,

The other night, I was out exp'ing on my NIN with another NIN friend. While we weren't the highest level in the party, we weren't the lowest. I had some dhalmal pie somewhere halfway when I was disastisfied with my damage on the crawlers in CN (at 34) and my friend was wanting to know if he should pop some steamed crabs since he was the main tank (I was offtank) We had bream sushi up to this point...

My hit rate nosedived. Katana. Capped skills. Yes, I whiffed on those crawlers like mad. After the meat wore off, I went back to sushi and was able to maintain hate as an offtank again.

What Mhurron said is correct. I had another NIN friend that used dumplings and let me tell you, for the 40K a stack it costs on Hades (Versus 9k squid sushi) it's very disappointing and hardly made any difference for her. Either Somepage is lying about the stat listed or something is off with the food. I seriously doubt those things can give that much bonuses. Sounds fishy to me.

Dhalmal pie does not have ACC+ bonus.

At level 34 melee Crawlers in Crawler's Nest using dhalmel pie or meat is going to whiff a lot. Mage can go exp. in Crawler's Nest start from level 34, but for melee is not recommend to go there until level 36.

You said, you tried to use dhalmel pie because you are not satisfied with your damage output on Crawlers. A melee DD in a "overhunt" party is not going to look good. In your situation, Rice Drumpling is not going to work for you or your NIN friend. You would need sushi, being able to land your swings > miss all the swings.

Stop overhunting ^^; Those Crawlers are still /check IT at level 36.

I think we have a misunderstanding in here. Rice Drumpling acc+ bonus is not equal to sushi's acc+ bonus. The way how Rice Drumpling work is, you need to stack Rice Drumpling's acc+ bonus with acc+ from gear. For example:

At level 34, Verner ring (acc +3), acc +2 from the glove (I forgot the name, you can get it from conquest point in sandy), acc +5 from rice drumpling. That is total of acc +10 (which is like having 2x sniper rings at level 34). However, do not think that acc +10 equals 80% hit rate. It gives a solid attack bonus with a "okay" hit rate. Think about the days when sushi is not introduced in this game and how DD manage in those days.

P.S.
I start this game during the 1st week of NA PS2 lauch, and 1st job is a melee job. I got used to attack food and I know what situation attack food is not working. Maybe it is not the case for players who depend on sushi most of time ^^;

[Aeni]

P.S.
I start this game during the 1st week of NA PS2 lauch, and 1st job is a melee job. I got used to attack food and I know what situation attack food is not working. Maybe it is not the case for players who depend on sushi most of time ^^;

I started playing since the the day it was released in NA (PC) If you wanted to get technical, I played in Closed Beta on Ragnarok Server long before they finalized plans for Open Beta to NA players and that was in February of that year (I applied for testing in December of the previous year, the same year the game was released in Japan or in 2002) Not sure what you were trying to say with that comment...

At 34, that is not overhunting. Crawlers exp dies when someone hit 36 in the party. You can limp along to 37 but unless you have PL, those same crawlers are simply not worth fighting at 38+... you move on to beetles instead at 37. In other words, 34 is the right time to hit the crawlers. In Beta, we started as early as 33 and we didn't have sushi either...

Anyway, drifting off here. I never said Dhalmel Pies had acc. What I was saying was I had sushi and the accuracy was not so that it was a waste. Not eating sushi you can see the difference in the misses. With a crappy WHM and a nub SMN, being able to control hate to the utmost highest degree therefore took precedence. I thought I could risk going w/o sushi to improve my damage using the Pies (Which are ungodly good for those levels) but I was proven wrong in the end.

Sushi not only made me not miss (Therefore getting TP to use WSs with) but enabled me to keep hate. Not missing a lot on my ranged attacks also was very important to adding to hate.

Let me go back to what Mhurron said.

Very little. Using an A rated weapon, you'll get more ACC (assuming capped skill) from sushi then from either Dumplings or Lanterns at around lvl20.


Unless you're fighting for 80 exp per kill (therefore not needing the extra acc in this case) then in your 30s as a melee (Note, PLDs and NINs both are considered melees afterall) you need to optimize your hit rate to contribute to the party.

[Celeal]

Unless you're fighting for 80 exp per kill (therefore not needing the extra acc in this case) then in your 30s as a melee (Note, PLDs and NINs both are considered melees afterall) you need to optimize your hit rate to contribute to the party.

No, it is not 80 exp per kill, you got to be kidding. When you hit chain #4 or chain #5 constantly with only a small downtime, the exp adds up very quickly.

Level 38 ~ 40 exp on Nest Beetles in C.N, or Goblins near outpost in East Alt. Desert is good. Level 34 "melee" Worker Crawlers would normally have poor hit-rate; at level 35 melee is okay for Worker Crawlers near the zone, but a bit low on hit rate at the sack room; level 36~38 is very good.

At level 34, I assume party level is 33 ~ 35 range, I would camp at the 1st gate at G.C, chaining bat and beetle, pulling VT -> IT -> VT -> IT -> ...

Well, I guess our expectation is different. If I am in your party situation, I would eat sushi too. However I would expect a tough ride for both the tank and melee. At level 34 before eatting food, those Crawlers mostly /check IT high def high eva. Without attack food, plus Cocoon, it is not even funny to melee.

[Armando]

Melee accuracy is dependant primarily on these factors:

* Weapon Skill (Both job class proficiency rating in weapon and current skill level in that weapon)
* Base Stat (DEX)
* Job Abilities
* Job Traits
* Spells
* Enhancements from Equipment/Weapon
* Enhancements from Food
* Monster Abilities
* Monster Job Traits
* Monster Spells (which includes Stoneskin, Utsusemi, Avatar Abilities, etc.)
* Environmental Factors - These are special cases normally reserved for an event battle, which includes - but is not limited to - BCs, Missions (Assaults are considered repeatable ToAU missions), Quests and Beseiged.
* Randomly Generated Coefficient used in determining battle outcomes (aka "rolls") on a per "action" basis.Not to take away from a perfectly good list and detailed list, but there's a critical factor missing: Number of levels the mob is higher than you. That'll screw you over more than just about anything else, except maybe for THF mobs with Evasion Bonus IV (+48 Evasion.)

[Aeni]

Not to take away from a perfectly good list and detailed list, but there's a critical factor missing: Number of levels the mob is higher than you. That'll screw you over more than just about anything else, except maybe for THF mobs with Evasion Bonus IV (+48 Evasion.)

Oh man ... that's like the biggest thing on that list I'm missing :wasted: Thanks Armando. I knew I was missing something, but I didn't think it was something that important :hitsheadonwall:

Celeal,

Party range was 33 to 36. No, I didn't form this party. :cry: