Bard tank.

[Mini Neruto]

Gimme some info! Subs! Levels! Whatever you know about the subject and if your experienced in it, spit it out. (Also, tell your bard tank stories if you have some ^^)

[Murphie]

One time I tanked for my party on BRD. About three or four hits in I was totally dead.

[Raydeus]

One time I tanked for my party on BRD. About three or four hits in I was totally dead.

:rofl:

[Mini Neruto]

No,no...75 bard all buffed up are good tanks, I know a few *cough* yeargdribble. Anyone else done this?

[Yeargdribble]

Me tanking Hakutaku.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e240/Yeargdribble/Hktk.jpg

BRD seems to make a superior tank for Hakutaku. By tanking it backward I can avoid Hex Eye (a gaze attack) and never get Paralyze. Mazurka produces enough hate so that I do not have to melee it to help hold hate. He spends so much time casting spells and using abilities that he's easy to blink tank with only one March. Using Dark Carol as well will help lower the damage from Death Ray.


Here's me tanking Bune.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e240/Yeargdribble/Bune.jpg

This one is a bitch. NIN is far better tank for this. Bune is a pain in the ass especially when he combines moves such as Dispeling Wind and Ripper Fang to take all shadows very quickly. All in all he's not that bad though.
Here is my DEF full buffed as BRD/WAR.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e240/Yeargdribble/BRDWAR.jpg

I was put into a position to potentially tank Apocolypse Nigh where shadows are useless. I've not done it yet, but I'm confident. Kam spams hate reset moves, but as BRD/WAR I have access to 2xMazurka, Provoke and Warcry to help me pull hate back onto myself after hate reset so that the WHM need not worry. With this build I was taking around 45-50 damage a hit from VT Aerns.

I could easily improve this build with a few modifications such as Cheviot/Umbra Cape. I didn't wear all of my HP gear for this shot either.


Here's me tanking Garuda.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e240/Yeargdribble/Garuda.jpg

I've found avatars very easy to tank with a competent WHM to help support.


Here's me tanking a handful of ZMs.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e240/Yeargdribble/ZM8.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e240/Yeargdribble/ZM5IC.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e240/Yeargdribble/ZM5Zi.jpg

I was able to tank all of the ZM missions leading up to sky with great ease. Kam wasn't nearly as worrisome as I had expected and turned out to be a bit of a joke.




The general points of BRD tanking is the fact that BRD can build more hate than any other job. With enough cycles it would hold hate off of Invincible. With haste gear, songs and Haste (or Nightingale) I can get off 4 mazurkas in just over 30 seconds. That's a ridiculous amount of hate. For straight tanking situations in particular BRD can be a very viable tank. BRD has access to a lot of gear that makes them decent meat shields, though most LSs won't give their BRD the better pieces of gear that would allow this.

[Mini Neruto]

{Thank you.}

Anyone else experimented with this?

[Jei]

D:

Woaw awesome.

[Raydeus]

Heheh, this is exactly why I was saying in that other thread that BRD had access to much better gear and songs than RDM, yet is RDM the one that gets all the hate from other players. :rofl:


A BRD with good equipment and skill can do some crazy stuff. :thumbsup:

[Icemage]

Also note that for hate gathering, Mazurka (both versions) has a huge enmity rating - and hits 6 players! There's a thread over at BG that talks about the power of BRD/NIN. I can't find the thread at the moment, though. :/


Icemage

[Nukapai]

WOW!

I love this thread - what great shots and an unusual concept. Seems to kick ass!

It's so great to see people play a bit "differently" and making it not only work, but be very good. :)

/ma "ThankYou" "Yeargdribble"

;)

[Yeargdribble]

Some things to keep in mind is that Carnage Elegy mostly makes up for your lack of evasion. On top of that 2xMarch = 20% haste. The spells is 15%. Being able to give youself 20% haste and have access to much of the same haste gear as NIN gives you that much more advantage.

Often a NIN tank for HNMs needs enmity+. I find that Mazurka alone generates so much hate that I can rip mobs off of PLDs with full enmity+ merits. For stationary mobs this gives the ability to have the hate holding ability of a PLD (or greater) with the blinking ability of a NIN. Additionally, since we do not need to focus on enmity+ or anything of the sort... our DEF is often able to outclass that of many NIN/WARs even without Defender. My BRD/NIN doesn't have nearly the DEF of my BRD/WAR, but when I do get hit I take hits far better than most NINs which are absolute paper without shadows.


The question I hear most often is, "WHY!?"

PLDs often have complained that NINs are taking their glory and that PLD is the pre-destined tank of the game. Instead of bickering they need to realize the limitations of each job. Faust is definitely easier to tank with a PLD than a NIN (though NIN is possible). CoP 6-4 is much easier with NIN though a PLD can do it with ridiculous amounts of meds.

The same is true for BRD. There are situations where PLD is best and where NIN is best and also where BRD is best. Hakutaku is the best example. We are very self sustaining and are able to avoid facing him while still holding ridiculous amounts of hate which lets everyone go pretty nuts damage-wise.

For HNMs like Fafnir the benefit is that BRD can hold a lot of hate in a battle where loose hate can cause a wipe or flail (especially if someone is standing on it's tail trying to MPK you from another group). Instead of a horribly drawn out fight where BLMs have to pace themselves a lot, BRD can hold a lot of hate and speed up the process.

I also was the primary Kirin kiter for my previous LS. Using BRD/NIN to do this frees up tanks to focus on Demis. BRD tanking is great in pinch situations where no other tanks are available (which is why I've tanked Bune many times).

[Raydeus]

What's the cap on Haste effect you can have on you?

How fast can a BRD with a RDM or WHM casting Haste plus Marches and +Haste gear get?

[Icemage]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Haste_%28Status_Effect%29

Haste is capped at approximately 70% for melee attacks and 50% for recast timers.
Haste from equipment is reported to cap at 25%.


Icemage

[Raydeus]

I think I might level BRD instead of THF for my next lvl 75 job. :biggrin:

[Murphie]

I didn't realize the OP was specifically referring to @75 tanking. I would have been a bit less flip with my response. XD

Excellent stuff though, Yeargdribble. I always like to see people pushing the limits of what they can do with their job. Plus, I'm leveling BRD after I get RDM the rest of the way to 75, and I have to support my fellow Taru BRDs. :3

[RunningDemon]

Best use of BRD tanking is to take NMs form RMT who are too stupid to turn blockaid on. :p

[Mini Neruto]

Yay! this thread has hyped up. My original point of making it was for Yeargdribble to post and mabey turn some heads twoards the idea so many people have automatically denied.

[Manayan]

Wow! Yeargdribble how did you get your defense up that high? I never knew a bard could achieve that much defense.

[Yeargdribble]

I've done the claim steal at Ulli before against RMT. It's quite satisfying ^^

As for my DEF, I took that shot while testing out my meat shield abilities. I'd never tanked anything with /WAR, but I was put into a position to do so simply because there was a lack of a PLD for a particularly difficult BC. I tried to recreate the situation I'd be in for the BC.

That is Protect IV, SV+2xMinne, Tavnazian Taco, and Defender. Incase you are curious, without SV my DEF is 778. However, I think BRD/WAR is more optimal for BC type situations as a PLD substitute. With Troubador I can get SV+2xMinne to last for around 7 minutes, which would be more than a sufficient amount of time for my purpose.

[Heimdal00]

I'm currently lvl 55 bard/nin with jaridah gear and mix of chr+, agi+, and eva+ gear.. as well as an earth staff for -20% dmg reduction. With 2x minne's active, my def is 282 (this is without protect or food). The average def of a pld my lvl is surprizingly about the same. I tested this on IT mobs (lesser colibri), and took between 50-100 dmg/hit, about on par with what a paladin would take. It would be tricky, but I could effectively tank using a combination of ninja and paladin style. If I went brd/whm, I could tank similarly, leaning more to a paladin style specifically (but blink instead of utsusemi). Raptor's Mazurka gets more hate at my lvl than 1.5x provoke. I know this because a nin/war had to provoke twice to finally get hate off me after I used mazurka (and I did practically nothing else for hate).

In real party action, I've saved my tanks a few times already with my utsusemi + zurka-voke.

Bard versatility rocks! ^_^

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

In real party action, I've saved my tanks a few times already with my utsusemi + zurka-voke.

In reality, you could have also saved them by just curing then through /WHM. What you did most likely is give your healer another MP sponge to deal with. Additionally, you likely wiped useful buffs out for a pseudo-voke and Minne.

I've done the claim steal at Ulli before against RMT. It's quite satisfying ^^

Is it just RMT, though?

[Heimdal00]

In reality, you could have also saved them by just curing then through /WHM. What you did most likely is give your healer another MP sponge to deal with. Additionally, you likely wiped useful buffs out for a pseudo-voke and Minne.
Is it just RMT, though?


Not always. In most of the cases, I couldn't have cured them as fast as they took dmg. Such is the problem with nin tanks who get their shadows wiped all at once with a mob ws. Fortunately with utsusemi I didn't take any dmg at all, so no mp sponge either.
I wouldn't use Minne either, unless I'm for some strange reason playing full-on main tank to begin with.

[Yeargdribble]

I've only ever used Mazurka as claim steal against RMT. However, sky RMT aren't as much of a problem on my server any more. Additionally, I almost never do sky these days. I'm strongly against stealing from other LSs. I hope it never becomes exploited enough to get nerfed.


The biggest thing that I've gotten out of BRD tanking is that I'm able to help. When I was a lowbie I always wished that I could help people like people had helped me. For the longest time I was a 75 BRD and could offer very little to others. I couldn't tank or DD for ZMs, AF or Missions. BRD tanking has allowed me to give back to my community. Now that I'm slightly less involved in endgame, I enjoy being part of mid-range LSs that are just getting start with sky and still have people wanting missions and even needing AF and LBs.

[Achaicus]

Use of lullaby as a cast interrupt might be of use while tanking. I used this vs. anticans and, later, against a NM Demon.

The meelees were quite happy to not be one-shotted :) But, I only did it about half of the time in those instances. I'd have to try it more to see if I can be consistent (as in the timing of when to lullaby).

Also, I recal a thread on Allakhazam about Bard tanking. One post mentioned that 75% is the cap for damage reduction gear - does anyone have any info on this?

Other commentaries mention that there is a point of diminishing returns since, of course, you want to have enuf def with with to reduce damage at all (or however it works).


- Greg W.,
Achaicus on Gilgamesh - tho Ive not played 4 a yr - too much in rl :P

ps - my employer has me in a remote location, so sorry i could not put in more details about the Antican, Demons, and such. In fact, it may well be that the network might 'learn' this site is game oriented so idk if I'll b 'back' b4 a few months or so :eek:

[Tirrock]

You should probably know that in the months since this topic was made, they've changed mazurka so it doesn't give nearly as much hate. That hurt bard tanking a lot.

[Achaicus]

Aw.. oh well, I still like the idea of it. I suppose that I could at least solo to some degree with the various physical damage reduction stuff (or w/e it takes). I won't have significant game time in the foreseeable future to level another job.

- Greg W.

[Susurrus]

Yearg, any word on if you're still able to hold hate?

[IfritnoItazura]

Yearg, any word on if you're still able to hold hate?

He put it this way:
On a side note.... SE broke me. I've prided myself in being a good BRD/NIN tank. It was one of my favorite things about the game. They have now taken that away, but it still stands that they made progress in a way that they have not in quite some time.

[menamataru]

once somebody asked me to tank as bard and i said fuck you.

[Taskmage]

Good to know, thanks for sharing. <_<;

[Murphie]

That post made me actually laugh out loud. Both for its content, and its complete randomness.

[Yellow Mage]

That post made me actually laugh out loud. Both for it is content, and it is complete randomness.

. . .

I spread out the contractions for extra "wut."

[Murphie]

Damn it, I was distracted.

[Yellow Mage]

Looks like the Schadenfreude just got Schadenfreude . . . -ed . . .

[Taskmage]

Is that title infectious or something?