Bye Bye Cor ='(

[Galaxia]

After lvlin my Cor for only a very short time I decided to call it quits,
Not out of dunes yet but after so many ppl told me to avoid Cor/Whm I decided it's best just to call it quits...
I personaly don't see whats wrong with /whm but anyway I don't have time to lvl rng or nin for sub really a shame I loved Cor especialy the 2H hehe so random ^^ lots of TP 300s

sad to say Bye Bye Cor ='( shame I really enjoyed the job >.<

GOOD LUCK to all Cors

[Jei]

err shouldn't matter what your friends say. Are you having fun? Are you getting PT invites? If you answer yes to these then why not. I know finding PT in the dunes isn't easy, so that might not be the best question just yet.

[csBahamut]

Considering how low you'd have to be to still be in the dunes, being /WHM, /RNG, or /NIN will have little, if any effect on how well you can do your job. You can't get the RNG's acc bonus until you're level 20. You can't use Utsusemi until level 24. Dual weidl isn't until you hit level 20, though you can't get the r.acc daggers till later anyways.

People that tell you to use endgame subs in the dunes really need to stop and think. Subs aren't always applicable at every level.

[Galaxia]

wanted to do 1-75 as COR/WHM tho heh

[Jethreal]

Cor is one of those beatiful jobs which is viable as pure support or support/DD. I myself had whm to 42 already (I wanted the teleports..grumble rotten Vahzl) but I took nin to 20 and am lev rng to 30 (I'm dual levelling Cor & Rng as the armor is mostly swappable for both jobs). I myself like /rng for Cor but I /sea alot of mid and high lev Cors going /rng or nin. So play it the way you enjoy before it gets pigeon-holed with a certain subjob.

(ps. I subbed war through the dunes and didn't get any grief)

[Raydeus]

When COR was first introduced I remember a lot of people playing it BRD and subbing WHM without much troubles.

Did that change already? :shocked:




PS > OP or are you quitting because your R key on the keyboard broke after so much COR chat? :P

[Galaxia]

Yep its changed
It's RNG or Nin now...
Maybe I should do BRD....... I really wanna be Cor tho
How can anyone reject cor just for been /whm
HAVE THEY NOT SEEN THE ROLLS?

[Murphie]

I had a COR/WHM in my EXP party earlier today at level 61. It wouldn't be my personal choice if I were leveling the job, but clearly it can be done.^^

Tell those naysayers to DIAF. :p

[Galaxia]

they not too good?

[Murphie]

She did ok. But to be honest, she almost never had to use her MP, so /WHM wasn't really benefiting her much in that party.

If you can make it work, then go for it.

[Raydeus]

I guess COR/(insert ranged DD sub) is a good combo because you are getting something like a BRD that can also DD, making kills faster.

I still don't see it as a reason not to invite a COR/WHM but then again I've rarely been in a party with a COR (and when I have, they played it like a BRD most of the times). :worry:

[Murphie]

Most COR that I have partied with have acted as a BRD with regard to buffing the party, but the rest of the time is spent as a sort of DD, which is where /RNG comes in handy. But there isn't only one way to play the job.

[Aksannyi]

Murphie, please explain to me what DIAF means?

Oh wait, hold on, is it "Die in a fire?"

[Yellow Mage]

Forget what other people think!

Take COR/WHM all the way and enjoy it! Don't care what other people say, for there will be other others who will look upon you and say "Wanna party?"

So forget what others say or do, and take your dream all the way! I myself will try RDM/PLD and if I can make it all the way, I don't see why I should care what others say about it! And neither should you! Have some self-respect, OP!

[Jei]

errr that's totally different, mate... because COR is a hybrid support+damage dealer, that's why Whm works for Cor. But Rdm.... just get nothing from PLD.

[Yellow Mage]

THAT'S NOT THE POINT :vent: !!!



. . .err, one means to say that the OP and I have faced/will face similar situations, no ^^; :o ?

[Jei]

:O

No it's totally different. We're trying to encourage the OP because Cor/Whm is a totally acceptable combination for party play. Whm while it's not the most popular sub choice, it is still a good sub.

If you say, hey, that's just like subbing PLD for RDM.... that just makes Cor/Whm sounds so bad you're frightenning the OP.

[Raitox]

I've got it, good sir! PLD/RDM is excellent solo, amirite? Better than RDM/PLD, amirite? See? SEE?! while neither is good in a party, PLD/RDM solo is pretty good.

[Yellow Mage]

Subbed RDM equals no.

And Jei, those words hurt :( . . .

EDIT: I would like to take this space to say why, that just Red Mage is fine on its own, and /Paladin is just a bonus onto that, though apparently not the "best bonus" by most's standards.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

This topic isn't really about wanting to be a COR/WHM, its about someone who doesn't want to put the work into COR to be the best they can at it. If you're just here to get your pirate fix, sub WHM or NIN and limp to 60 like the rest, get your AF and quit. If you're serious about COR, level RNG, please.

RNG is not an expensive sub to level. People try to dance around it because they heard RNG is expensive. Ranger is expensive past 50 which is well-beyond subjob level. You won't break over a mil getting it to 37, I don't even think I spent 500k. I got RNG to 40 in two weeks flat.

Everyone levels NIN as a sub because of zomgutsusemi, but its actually more expensive sub to level to 37 due to gear, scrolls and tools.

[Murphie]

Murphie, please explain to me what DIAF means?

Oh wait, hold on, is it "Die in a fire?"That's exactly it.

[Galaxia]

This topic isn't really about wanting to be a COR/WHM, its about someone who doesn't want to put the work into COR to be the best they can at it. If you're just here to get your pirate fix, sub WHM or NIN and limp to 60 like the rest, get your AF and quit. If you're serious about COR, level RNG, please.
RNG is not an expensive sub to level. People try to dance around it because they heard RNG is expensive. Ranger is expensive past 50 which is well-beyond subjob level. You won't break over a mil getting it to 37, I don't even think I spent 500k. I got RNG to 40 in two weeks flat.
Everyone levels NIN as a sub because of zomgutsusemi, but its actually more expensive sub to level to 37 due to gear, scrolls and tools.


I think not.
Money isn't a issue but I simply don't get the time to lvl up 3 jobs >.<
I barely get time for one with all the stuff I have to do during the day.
Plus lvlin RNG would bore me to tears my personal prefrence is COR/WHM

[Mini Neruto]

Yep its changed
It's RNG or Nin now...
Maybe I should do BRD....... I really wanna be Cor tho
How can anyone reject cor just for been /whm
HAVE THEY NOT SEEN THE ROLLS?

I love bard. Its really fun. Lots of people want you x.x. I usually get party invites while im in a party lol.

[SharMarali]

It's been my observation that many of the JP CORs use /WHM, while the majority of the NA CORs use either /NIN or /RNG.

There must be SOME reason why so many of the JP players are using /WHM. It must be beneficial in some way or they'd have stopped doing it, at least in theory.

[Maju]

It's been my observation that many of the JP CORs use /WHM, while the majority of the NA CORs use either /NIN or /RNG.
There must be SOME reason why so many of the JP players are using /WHM. It must be beneficial in some way or they'd have stopped doing it, at least in theory.
Can't say I've ever seen a COR sub WHM past L20.

[nanatsu]

This topic isn't really about wanting to be a COR/WHM, its about someone who doesn't want to put the work into COR to be the best they can at it. If you're just here to get your pirate fix, sub WHM or NIN and limp to 60 like the rest, get your AF and quit. If you're serious about COR, level RNG, please.
RNG is not an expensive sub to level. People try to dance around it because they heard RNG is expensive. Ranger is expensive past 50 which is well-beyond subjob level. You won't break over a mil getting it to 37, I don't even think I spent 500k. I got RNG to 40 in two weeks flat.
Everyone levels NIN as a sub because of zomgutsusemi, but its actually more expensive sub to level to 37 due to gear, scrolls and tools.

I think it's a bit presumptuous to say that about the OP, having no knowledge of the person personally whatsoever. And I think that's totally pigeonholing someone into something that's not neccessarily true. Being serious does not neccessarily = upholding others people's ideas about what is best.

Being serious about something can also be about doing something you love and being able to do it everyday with efficiency and skill. So what if the OP wants to be COR/WHM? Let her be serious about being the best COR/WHM possible. Personally I myself would go /rng. There's not much I would do outside the norm. But that just my preference. I would also like to be serious about playing war. But tons of people would point out that I should be war/nin. I wouldn't do that, so screw them. I'd be serious about being the best war/mnk I could be and I'd work hard to prove my worth as a war. I wouldn't go so far as to insult someone I don't know by saying something like you said.

It's not somehow making the world worse or making others look bad. And if it can be pulled off and become an awesome useful combo for pts, then the COR job just got that much better. So I don't see what the problem is.

I don't know the OP personally myself but I will say this. If the OP is truly serious about being a cor and really loves the job but STILL wants to be /whm and fully understands the advantages and disadvantages of it, then I say go for it. And I wish you luck on doing well with it if you do.

[ValiantRedemption]

It's been my observation that many of the JP CORs use /WHM, while the majority of the NA CORs use either /NIN or /RNG.

There must be SOME reason why so many of the JP players are using /WHM. It must be beneficial in some way or they'd have stopped doing it, at least in theory.

Aye, I have grouped up with a COR/WHM(Level 50ish) in a Japanese Party and they play just like a back up healer. I did find it helpful when the COR did cast Curaga and just seems to make my life a little easier. I also had a friend during the time that was a COR/RNG and noticed that the COR/WHM could barely, barely pull half of what he could pull(COR/WHM would pull 70 if they were lucky at Dark Shot when COR/RNG could pull 170+ easy).

Pretty much, I just think they see it as a rdm when there is not one availible.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I think not.
Money isn't a issue but I simply don't get the time to lvl up 3 jobs >.<
I barely get time for one with all the stuff I have to do during the day.
Plus lvlin RNG would bore me to tears my personal prefrence is COR/WHM

According to your Alla profile your RNG is level 1. Your NIN is level 1. Warrior level 2. I'd say don't knock it if you haven't tried it.

But you have a 54 SMN, 46 WHM and 37 BLM and then misc jobs below your 18 BRD. So it sounds like we're skipping the vegetables and going right for the ice cream here.

For you do have a fully capable COR, you'd need WAR to 18 at least to work on full /NIN to 37 sub and then /RNG to 37 after.

My question is this - If you had the time to give SMN all the tools it needed, why can't you do the same for COR? The way you want to play COR sounds much more like you want to be a BRD. If you're going to play a BRD, be a BRD, especially so if time is a concern for you.

I see /WHM as valid in some situations and I'm levelling it right now to benefit my COR. I've done WHM before on another character and I swore I'd never do it again. I don't like having to do BLM to 18 and WHM to 37 again, but I can't deny the situational benefits of doing so and don't think my COR would be complete without having it as an option. However, I still feel /RNG is of the most benefit.

[Radel-King_of_Pirates]

According to your Alla profile your RNG is level 1. Your NIN is level 1. Warrior level 2. I'd say don't knock it if you haven't tried it.

But you have a 54 SMN, 46 WHM and 37 BLM and then misc jobs below your 18 BRD. So it sounds like we're skipping the vegetables and going right for the ice cream here.

For you do have a fully capable COR, you'd need WAR to 18 at least to work on full /NIN to 37 sub and then /RNG to 37 after.

My question is this - If you had the time to give SMN all the tools it needed, why can't you do the same for COR? The way you want to play COR sounds much more like you want to be a BRD. If you're going to play a BRD, be a BRD, especially so if time is a concern for you.

I see /WHM as valid in some situations and I'm levelling it right now to benefit my COR. I've done WHM before on another character and I swore I'd never do it again. I don't like having to do BLM to 18 and WHM to 37 again, but I can't deny the situational benefits of doing so and don't think my COR would be complete without having it as an option. However, I still feel /RNG is of the most benefit.

Actually my fair lass Cor is a very interesting job to tinker with, I can say I look up to you when I 1st lvl cor because your words were wise and did shine light on to the topic. In standards of a Pirate get by and get the gold by doin less work as needed, Pirates also if provoked will take on armada of ships to get the gold, treasure, or the fair, beautiful girl.

Now after saying that Cor/Rng puller but is slow delay of the gun until 40 when ele cards are useable (In tight spots where you need pull a mob while 3 other rngs are close to grab it) so eh get by just make sure you can use /recast know when its up while camping for the next. Also racc bonus is very useful and the other stuff quite fun, can't wait for Barrage.

Cor/nin I can't say much never pted with one only soloed with it for camping mobs and trying build a better buffer.

Cor/whm, I pted with one with my pld and have to say it was very interesting. had a me, a drk, cor/whm, smn, whm, and the other I don't truly remember, think it was a blu or war. Anyway the since the smn was around the effects of Evokers roll was very nice, with the sanction, and auto refresh. the Cor did minor heals to save mp and did alright pulling. since the cor gear I believe get -2 em (I'll check later and edit if need be). But to say I wouldn't do it, doesn't mean others can't. So ms. Galaxia cor/whm just hope you know what you are getting into in my mind pre 40 cor/whm will have tough road.

[Maju]

My question is this - If you had the time to give SMN all the tools it needed, why can't you do the same for COR?
I find this strange as well.

Are you on a time bugdet? Do you absolutely need to have your COR L75 by a certain date? Why exactly do you not have enough time to level subs? What would you spend that time on if not on leveling subs?

This whole "I don't have time" argument blows my mind, to be honest.

[Celeal]

I am not a COR...

but in my opinion, COR is still a kinda "new" job: We should give the job more time for trial and error, to see more possibility or potential of the job.

If we set the standard or norm too soon, we are restricting ourselves to see any subtle aspect of the job, or anything that have not yet discovered.

Give COR/WHM a chance to prove itself. If it is working, great. If it is not working, at least we can examine the reasons, and turn that into knowledge.

[Celeal]

Another thing I want to add...

if the job is flexible, it can have more than one subjob that works well. For example, a rdm can sub blm, whm, nin, etc. A DD generally can sub war, thf, nin, etc.

Is COR a flexible job?

Maybe in the future we can see there are other subjob choices that works well with COR too, besides /RNG. Maybe in the future we would have COR 101 guides that tell players to level up multiple subjobs for COR, for different situations ^^;

[Radel-King_of_Pirates]

Another thing I want to add...

if the job is flexible, it can have more than one subjob that works well. For example, a rdm can sub blm, whm, nin, etc. A DD generally can sub war, thf, nin, etc.

Is COR a flexible job?

Maybe in the future we can see there are other subjob choices that works well with COR too, besides /RNG. Maybe in the future we would have COR 101 guides that tell players to level up multiple subjobs for COR, for different situations ^^;

Yes and a no it is flexible but it has restrictions. as a /whm until 40 it really isn't goin to do much healing, unless you actually have another puller. To me it can do alot, to me it is a very interesting job

Subs I have seen for cor rng and nin 2 most popular and used by dd people, also thf, and a few pups for soloing and/or farming. Whm, and very few rdm for back-up heals and some enfeebling. But hey I go on what I like to see my cor do.

[greydaze]

I took BLM to 75 without levelling WHM past 25. There were certain PTs I had to opt out on because I didn't have WHM subbed for status cures. But almost always, I performed very well in PT situations even with my small limitation.

I have taken RNG to 65 without WAR as sub (it's 25). I use NIN. Maybe I'll level WAR, maybe I won't. I enjoy RNG and have a fully levelled acceptable sub.

As long as the OP isn't trying to sub something stupid like MNK, i don't think ANY of us have a right to say something. Is WHM an acceptable sub for a buffer? Absolutely! Does it serve well, especially pre-24? Yes. No one invites a COR as a DD. They invite CORs for buffs, and a small amount of damage/pulling.

It's HIS game and HIS money. It's HIS time he spends playing. If he wants to play COR/WHM, I say let him be! If you decide not to invite based on sub, that's your perogative. But being an elitist with tons of time to level various subs doesn't give the inherant right to tell others to do the same.

OP, I have gone off the beaten path myself. Do what makes you happy! :)

[Spider-Dan]

To the OP:

It appears you have BRD leveled to at least 18. For the time being, COR/BRD is a perfectly legitimate combo. Apparently, in one of the prior updates, the game was changed so that you can have 2 rolls and 1 song up.

I'm not sure whether this will be a permanent change, though. If it is, then BRD will almost certainly become one of the primary SJs for COR. Getting /BRD Ballad, by itself, increases COR's average Refresh by ~30-50%, Finale is a nice bonus, and you can wear practically all the same gear as a normal DD COR (COR/BRD has no need for +MP).

So if you wanted an alternative, there you go.

[Jei]

You can really have 2 rolls and 1 song now? Wow I need ot try that out.

[Karinya]

Hmm. Can you go BRD/COR and have two songs and a roll, too? Sometimes you don't really need /WHM...

[Raji]

Ohhhhhhhh no. No. No. No no no no no no no no, NO!!!!

I'm NOT going to level COR to sub to my Bard and then start exp'ing Bard again, and I'm SURE AS HELL not going to even try to test out the "two songs + one roll" thing. No way, no how. Pay no attention to the fact that I got my Ballad Whore on for last night's mission runs. I am absolutely, positively FINISHED. WITH. BARD!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

To the OP:

It appears you have BRD leveled to at least 18. For the time being, COR/BRD is a perfectly legitimate combo. Apparently, in one of the prior updates, the game was changed so that you can have 2 rolls and 1 song up.

I'm not sure whether this will be a permanent change, though. If it is, then BRD will almost certainly become one of the primary SJs for COR. Getting /BRD Ballad, by itself, increases COR's average Refresh by ~30-50%, Finale is a nice bonus, and you can wear practically all the same gear as a normal DD COR (COR/BRD has no need for +MP).

So if you wanted an alternative, there you go.

Dan, I'm disappointed to see you advocate a sub even weaker than /WHM for EXP.

/BRD is and always has been one of the weakest subjob choices for any job in this game, period. Only with the introduction of COR did it really gain a shred of viablity and even then its biggest weakness remains - one song at 1/4 the power of BRD main save for Ballad and Paeon, which are ruled by duration.

There's not much accuracy to be gained 40+ with COR/BRD, even with preludes, Hunter's Roll and the ranged update factored in. And guess what? Sushi obseletes Prelude, Madrigal AND Hunter's Roll - this has been tested and proven. There's not much attack to be gained, either, if you want to give real attack bonuses, go BRD.

Finale is weaker than Dispel and Finale subbed is positively useless because it WILL get resisted consistantly. Dispel, on the other hand, doesn't get resisted 99 percent of the time, even with RDM subbed.

/BRD may have some viability for endgame, but I don't see any vailidilty for it in EXP and I personally don't want to see COR handled by NA HNM shells like BRD has - a ballad whore. COR has very good, exclusive buffs that should not be going ignored that aren't about refresh.

It may very well be that 1-30, the subjob doesn't matter, but after 30 and especially after 60 a subjob can really matter. COR/WHM to 30 is passable, but once you start spending big on bullets and gear past 50, you're going to want to get the most out of them. If you have your eyes on 75 and endgame fuctions for any job, you should be thinking about expanding your subjob options as early as you can. Get it over with early so you can enjoy the fruits of that labor at high level.

If you limp ahead with a weak sub and go back to level subs later, it shouldn't be surprising that it feels like work beacuse you created that roadblock for yourself and you kept yourself from higher level functions for it.

[Spider-Dan]

Let me put this as simply as I can:

/BRD Ballad I, by itself, outweighs almost everything every other SJ has to offer for COR.

COR's primary purpose is support. Refresh is the defining characteristic of a support job. The only reason COR wasn't immediately forced into BRD SJ is because Squenix (wisely) saw that allowing COR to sub BRD (or vice versa) and get 3 buffs would pigeonhole the job for rather obvious reasons, and chose not to allow it.

However, with the (temporary?) removal of that restriction, you can't deny the effectiveness of /BRD. If this change becomes permanent, the only thing stopping BRDs from being forced to sub COR as well is that wearing +MP gear (to make BRD/WHM work) doesn't interfere with their other duties, as it does with COR.

COR has very good, exclusive buffs that should not be going ignored that aren't about refresh.

Who's talking about ignoring rolls? The entire point of COR/BRD is that you add more buffs to your repertoire. Even Madrigal at 22COR/11BRD is a practical, useful boost to all your melee DDs. Unless you're claiming that melees regularly hit 95% accuracy at level 20 and you've never used Hunter's Roll?

For a job that's based on providing MP-less buffs, /BRD has obvious synchronicity. If I were you, I'd start a letter-writing campaign to Squenix telling them to fix the 3 buffs glitch. (For what it's worth, I've already submitted that as a bug report; not because I oppose it, but because I want to see official confirmation/denial before I dump my time into leveling BRD.) If this change becomes permanent, /BRD will become a required (if not the required) SJ for COR.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Let me put this as simply as I can:

/BRD Ballad I, by itself, outweighs almost everything every other SJ has to offer for COR.

COR's primary purpose is support. Refresh is the defining characteristic of a support job. The only reason COR wasn't immediately forced into BRD SJ is because Squenix (wisely) saw that allowing COR to sub BRD (or vice versa) and get 3 buffs would pigeonhole the job for rather obvious reasons, and chose not to allow it.

This is quite different from posts you've made in the past. You've made the argument before that COR was a DD first and support second. I'm still of the opinion its 50/50, but that its DD is very worthwhile. Is a few ticks of MP really gonna matter in EXP when i can help close a fight with slug or barrage and save people some healing?

However, with the (temporary?) removal of that restriction, you can't deny the effectiveness of /BRD. If this change becomes permanent, the only thing stopping BRDs from being forced to sub COR as well is that wearing +MP gear (to make BRD/WHM work) doesn't interfere with their other duties, as it does with COR.

I can deny it from experience. 1 song, 1/4th the power. Finale consistantly resisted, as I stated before. That leaves its only viability to be ballad and the last thing anyone wants is COR to become yet another refresh monkey, if it becomes that SE has truely failed with this job. If /BRD becme the standard, COR will be vacated faster than RNG post-nerf. And its already getting slim.

But thankfully my HNM lets us come what we want rather than play NA HNMLS conformist.

Who's talking about ignoring rolls? The entire point of COR/BRD is that you add more buffs to your repertoire. Even Madrigal at 22COR/11BRD is a practical, useful boost to all your melee DDs. Unless you're claiming that melees regularly hit 95% accuracy at level 20 and you've never used Hunter's Roll?

Again, non-duration buffs are at 1/4th the power of BRD main. Without the instrument, all you have is halved singing skill. And I stated it already that past 40 Madrigal, Prelude and Hunters's Roll are all obseleted by sushi. This is a fact.

the mere fact that Ballad enters the equation leads to COR pairing it with Evoker's steadily and pidgeonholes it in endgame functions. In a mage PT, this leaves a BRD to choose Warlock's or Wizard's roll rather than giving both. Or if you're in SMN PT, it could potentially cut out Drachen Roll or Healer's Roll.

Yet, were we to do the same with Minuet II and Chaos Roll for melee PT, we'd never get close to what BRD offers. And that leaves us with Fighter's and Thief to choose, too. We can't compete with Marches, we have no buffs to compliment it. BRD wins there. Ninja Roll and Sheepfoe Mambo can't compete with Mambox2.

I'd prefer to see BRD and COR remain as different as possible. Perhaps you're advocating BRD because you've obviously not levelled it at all or to 75, play 75 BRD and you'll see why any other BRD who plays COR doesn't want it to suffer from the refresh monkey syndrome.

[Karinya]

COR certainly does have good unique buffs, but none of them are affected by subjob choice in any way whatsoever (except insofar as having those buffs present on the COR affects the COR's ability to use the subjob's abilities, e.g. Evoker's + /WHM). So they don't really enter that much into a subjob discussion.

I think /RNG /BRD and /WHM will all have times when they are better, depending on party setup and what you're fighting (and maybe even /NIN if you're pulling raptors or something like that); some people are going to say that therefore you should have all of them leveled before LFP, and others are going to say you can pick one and find parties where your chosen sub and playstyle shine.

What to sub in PLD BLU DRK WHM BLM COR fighting crawlers and what to sub in NIN DRG THF SMN RDM COR fighting colibri are quite different questions. Why would anyone assume that they should have the same answer?

[Spider-Dan]

This is quite different from posts you've made in the past. You've made the argument before that COR was a DD first and support second. I'm still of the opinion its 50/50, but that its DD is very worthwhile. Is a few ticks of MP really gonna matter in EXP when i can help close a fight with slug or barrage and save people some healing?
/BRD doesn't prevent you from using slugs. And if you're asking me if a 50% increase in your Refresh capabilities is going to matter... yeah, I'm gonna have to go ahead and say "yes" on that, especially when one of the primary deficiencies of COR as support in meripo is our weaker refresh compared to BRD or RDM (who can guarantee 3MP/tick every time). When mages don't have time to rest, COR loses a lot of ground to BRD and RDM as a refresher.

I can deny it from experience. 1 song, 1/4th the power.
Where is your evidence for this? As far as I can see, /BRD gives the same song potency as it would for a BRD of that level without an instrument. Ninjutsu and white/black magic certainly don't work the way you describe, so I'm interested in seeing why you think songs do.

For the record:

5BRD/2COR
Minne- DEF+4
Minuet- ATK+5

73COR/5BRD
Minne- DEF+4
Minuet- ATK+5

Doesn't look quartered to me. But maybe you can report some results with /BRD on your other character.

Finale consistantly resisted, as I stated before. That leaves its only viability to be ballad and the last thing anyone wants is COR to become yet another refresh monkey, if it becomes that SE has truely failed with this job.
Yes, because the other "refresh monkeys" (BRD and RDM) are having such a tough time of it as it is.

And I stated it already that past 40 Madrigal, Prelude and Hunters's Roll are all obseleted by sushi. This is a fact.
So then, you are claiming that you have never used Hunter's Roll post-40?

Give me a break. Sushi does not obsolete accuracy gear/buffs until you reach 95% accuracy, which no one will do pre-70. And even when Madrigal becomes obsolete, you have March available. +Haste is never obsolete.

the mere fact that Ballad enters the equation leads to COR pairing it with Evoker's steadily and pidgeonholes it in endgame functions. In a mage PT, this leaves a BRD to choose Warlock's or Wizard's roll rather than giving both. Or if you're in SMN PT, it could potentially cut out Drachen Roll or Healer's Roll.
Apparently, you have not been paying attention. You have completely missed my entire point.

There was a --->change<--- made to the mechanics of rolls/songs that allows you to provide THREE buffs as COR/BRD. This means that you can give Wizard's, Warlock's, and Ballad. Same goes for Fighter's, Rogue's, and March.

[Karinya]

Again, non-duration buffs are at 1/4th the power of BRD main. Without the instrument, all you have is halved singing skill. And I stated it already that past 40 Madrigal, Prelude and Hunters's Roll are all obseleted by sushi. This is a fact.

Nonsense. Most bard buffs depend weakly, if at all, on skill. Certainly you don't get as much out of it as a full BRD does - duh! - but 1/4 is an overstatement. +10 (or more!) acc on all your physical DDs is far from insignificant. As is Ballad, however much you hate it.

Sushi is a crutch. If you have the opportunity to set yout DDs free to actually eat attack foods again, their damage will skyrocket. Suggesting that "well, if everyone eats sushi (and gimps their attack by 20-25%), then they won't need these acc abilities, so they're pointless" is... I can't think of a word for it without violating the no-flaming rules.

Plus, if you're swimming in accuracy and can't possibly use any more, what use do you have for Accuracy Bonus and Sharpshot anyway? You're valuing ~30 more accuracy for yourself above ~10 more accuracy for everybody. This seems an odd attitude for even a 1/2 support job.
the mere fact that Ballad enters the equation leads to COR pairing it with Evoker's steadily and pidgeonholes it in endgame functions. In a mage PT, this leaves a BRD to choose Warlock's or Wizard's roll rather than giving both. Or if you're in SMN PT, it could potentially cut out Drachen Roll or Healer's Roll.
Sidetrack: does anyone actually have a whole party of summoners on a regular basis? I don't think I've ever seen more than 2 in the same LS at the same time, and that's for Dynamis LSs. Regardless, a SMN party is probably going to want Evoker's anyway - especially now that they're even more MP-hungry - and if for some reason it *wasn't* advantageous, you wouldn't be forced to use it. /BRD doesn't take away any of your rolls.
Yet, were we to do the same with Minuet II and Chaos Roll for melee PT, we'd never get close to what BRD offers. And that leaves us with Fighter's and Thief to choose, too. We can't compete with Marches, we have no buffs to compliment it. BRD wins there. Ninja Roll and Sheepfoe Mambo can't compete with Mambox2.
Isn't it rather unfair to compare one roll to two songs? COR inherently lacks the ability to roll two of the same thing while BRD often does have two of the same song, true, but that's not related to SJ. If you were /RNG you'd be even further from matching Minuet/Mambo x2.

It's certainly true that if an alliance has a BRD and a COR to assign to parties, they'll probably prefer to put the COR with mages and the BRD with melees rather than vice versa, but that'll happen regardless of the subjob choice of either. COR has more interesting and unique buffs for mages and not just refresh (which is usually adequately covered by the RDMs anyway - and yes, I have gone RDM/BRD to do so.)
I'd prefer to see BRD and COR remain as different as possible. Perhaps you're advocating BRD because you've obviously not levelled it at all or to 75, play 75 BRD and you'll see why any other BRD who plays COR doesn't want it to suffer from the refresh monkey syndrome.
I pity the fool who considers ANY job a "refresh monkey", and I don't care what jobs they have at what levels. All support jobs bring so much more to the table than refresh that this description isn't even funny. Anyone who has played BRD - or heck, even paid attention to what a competent BRD in their party was doing - can't take such a description seriously.

In an endgame situation, jobs that are 2/3 one thing and 1/3 another tend to drop their 1/3. RDM don't nuke or heal much. SMN don't heal much. BRD don't heal or status cure much (unless they're the support/healer for a melee pt, which is hardly "refresh monkey"). The big exception to "jobs become more specialized versions of themselves" is MNK, but if anything, that argues even further against COR doing damage at endgame; the main reason for MNK's function shift is the weakness of physical damage on the majority of HNMs. WAR occasionally do still tank, but only in very few situations.

So I don't think it's hard to predict that the 2/3 support, 1/3 DD job isn't going to be doing much DD at endgame encounters. Do you really expect to hit gods with a B Marksmanship, Sharpshot or no? And how much damage do you think you'll do without any of the RNG-only guns, ammo, AF2 or other endgame gear?

[Celeal]

No one ask you not to sub RNG...

You can have the "option" to sub RNG, or something else...

The key is: Options, flexible, situational.

Let say I have a COR already in my party:
1. If I am looking for a DD, but no DD is seeking, I could have the COR fill in the DD role and I can look for another party-support job.
2. If I am looking for a party-support job, but none is seeking, the COR can fill in the party-support role and I can look for another DD.

I can see having /rng, /nin, /whm, /brd, /war ready for COR is a big advantage.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

/BRD doesn't prevent you from using slugs. And if you're asking me if a 50% increase in your Refresh capabilities is going to matter... yeah, I'm gonna have to go ahead and say "yes" on that, especially when one of the primary deficiencies of COR as support in meripo is our weaker refresh compared to BRD or RDM (who can guarantee 3MP/tick every time). When mages don't have time to rest, COR loses a lot of ground to BRD and RDM as a refresher.

BRD has no native ranged abilty and accuracy would take a nosedive 50+ even with gear, buffs and sushi factored in. Slugs would land less than they do /NIN and attack power would be lost, you can't deny it. People always like to talk about merit PTs, but we're talking to a COR in the dunes and his BRD is 18 to boot, so let's not sidetrack, we're far enough off track as is. Anything goes in 75 Tardburn vs VT weaksauce mobs, so lets not even waste our time on it.

Where is your evidence for this? As far as I can see, /BRD gives the same song potency as it would for a BRD of that level without an instrument. Ninjutsu and white/black magic certainly don't work the way you describe, so I'm interested in seeing why you think songs do.

For the record:

5BRD/2COR
Minne- DEF+4
Minuet- ATK+5

73COR/5BRD
Minne- DEF+4
Minuet- ATK+5

Doesn't look quartered to me. But maybe you can report some results with /BRD on your other character.

Again, you have no BRD experience and you're showing it now. Singing, Wind and Instrument skill and the use of an instrument have a cumalative effect on buffs depending on the instrument use. not only that, tiered songs cap just like healing tiers cap based on skill.

Singing skill and the corresponding instrument skill for the song stack. If you have NQ instrumeng that compliments the song, a bonus is added. If you use and HQ instrument that compliments the song, a bigger bonus is added. If you have +singing skill or +wind/+string, points can be added to minuet, madrigal and haste values.

And guess what? As COR/BRD, you have access to none of that. Your singing skill is halved by level and you have no access to instruments and less to +singing/wind/string than BRD main does. 1/4th the power is rather accuracte.

BRD Main's Minuet III and Minuet IV stacked lead to a 100+ attack bonus and can be pushed several points higher by HQ instruments skill gear, over 120 at least, probably more. Find me an attack food that matches that and then tell me you shouldn't be eating sushi 40+. These stats brought to you by 75BRD/37WHM.

But that's the non-subbable tiers. Lets look at Minuet I and II from BRD and /BRD.

BRD main minuet I and II caps at around 49-50 attack. But what about /BRD?

Well, you can't stack em, so that's out. But how about that whopping +12 attack bonus from just singing Minuet II? That's from 65 RDM/BRD (95 singing skill, BRD main cap 227 pre-skill gear, yep, C rating) and I'm pretty sure Minuet II caps around 100 singing and wind. So we're talking maybe +15-17 attack here purely from singing. Pehaps it is nice to stack on Chaos Roll, but Chaos Roll would probably have given more, with or without DRK in PT. Sung minuet II pales in comparison to even Beserk or Warcry and if a BRD really wanted to go all out on attack bonuses, they'd do better with /WAR.

Yes, because the other "refresh monkeys" (BRD and RDM) are having such a tough time of it as it is.


So then, you are claiming that you have never used Hunter's Roll post-40?

Give me a break. Sushi does not obsolete accuracy gear/buffs until you reach 95% accuracy, which no one will do pre-70. And even when Madrigal becomes obsolete, you have March available. +Haste is never obsolete.

Post-40, the only time I roll Hunters is on Colibri where food buffs become totally irrelevant orwhen RNG is in PT, while may buffs can still be used situatioally I tend to prioritize COR buffs in terms of jobs present, then gear and food used. I've yet to meet a PT as BRD or COR that was in dire need of accuracy buffs unless they were poorly geared and with ToA, you have zero excuses to come poorly geared on accuracy to any PT as a melee.

That said, Minuet and offensive buffs all the way. You can come gimped for accuracy if you want and eat attack foods, but don't expect a BRD or COR to compensate for your deficienies. Accuracy gear and food is still expected by all and melees are irresponsible if they expect a COR or BRD to pick up their slack. I'm tired of this misguided notion that melee can give themselves better attack buffs with food than what COR and BRD bring to the table.

Apparently, you have not been paying attention. You have completely missed my entire point.

There was a --->change<--- made to the mechanics of rolls/songs that allows you to provide THREE buffs as COR/BRD. This means that you can give Wizard's, Warlock's, and Ballad. Same goes for Fighter's, Rogue's, and March.

I understood what you said.

But WTF good is /BRD if you're not going to use Evoker's with it, which has been your argument all along? Evoker's with a IX rolled is more worthwhile to mages than Ballad purely by its superior duration. And when mages start puting on Black Cloaks or Vermys, Sanction Refresh, WHMs subbing SMN and you have a SMN main, Ballad from /BRD is just like giving ice to an eskimo.

You've levelled COR so far, yet you fail to understand that our buffs have a five minute duration for a reason - so we can melee. If you're covertly trying to put /WHM in better better light, congratulations, you've succeeded. At least COR/WHM can do something COR/BRD can't - be helpful by having MP to draw from. COR/BRD is just buffs and weak melee, at least COR/WHM, COR/RNG and COR/NIN could do something in a pinch.

But again, the OP is at dunes level - BRD or COR - MP pool is a joke for the 40 levels until you'd have more MP gear to draw from (unless you want to blow 2 mil on Astrals, anyway. But eating pies for MP will do nothing for marksmanship. Our primary melee is guns, our buffs are enhanced by PT jobs and we enhance debuffs. I think anything that takes away from those functions to be bad until you have capped skills or have the merits to back alternative subs.

The OP doesn't have them, so why suggest or even encourage things detrimental to his skills? This is why I hate so-called "endgame" players trying to give advice. Merit PTs and endgame have dulled your sensiblities and you have forgotten how jobs play at low level, You forget that what works at 75 does not work at every level.

If the OP wants to go /WHM or /BRD, fine, its only your loss of skills and accuracy that's a factor there. But keep /RNG and /NIN's benefits in mind, they're nothing to be shrugged off. That's all I've ever been saying. He clearly had the time to put work in to SMN, and if he has the resources to do RNG and NIN, yet refuses to do them, he's lying about how much time he really has because levelling both would take less time than getting a SMN to 54.

[Spider-Dan]

BRD has no native ranged abilty and accuracy would take a nosedive 50+ even with gear, buffs and sushi factored in. Slugs would land less than they do /NIN and attack power would be lost, you can't deny it.
Sing Prelude to yourself.

Again, you have no BRD experience and you're showing it now. Singing, Wind and Instrument skill and the use of an instrument have a cumalative effe...
Don't you have a 75BRD? Instead of the BRD Songs 101, why don't you just sing Minuet II as 75BRD, then sing it again as /BRD and report the +ATK in both scenarios?

I think we all already know the answer to that.

Post-40, the only time I roll Hunters is on Colibri where food buffs become totally irrelevant orwhen RNG is in PT, while may buffs can still be used situatioally I tend to prioritize COR buffs in terms of jobs present, then gear and food used.
So if Madrigal is "obsoleted" by sushi, why the hell are you ever using Hunter's Roll? That's a direct contradiction.

Every bit of accuracy helps.

But WTF good is /BRD if you're not going to use Evoker's with it, which has been your argument all along?
Because 1MP/tick is better than 0MP/tick?

Let me see if I understand your argument correctly: either you should use Evoker's+Ballad for ~3MP/tick (averaged), or you should have no refresh whatsoever? Yeah, that makes sense.

I don't know about you, but in my book, being able to still provide some kind of refresh while rolling Warlock's+Wizard's would be considered a benefit, and a rather substantial one. But I guess you see that as a flaw.

Evoker's with a IX rolled is more worthwhile to mages than Ballad purely by its superior duration. And when mages start puting on Black Cloaks or Vermys, Sanction Refresh, WHMs subbing SMN and you have a SMN main, Ballad from /BRD is just like giving ice to an eskimo.
So ~2MP/tick (averaged) is awesome and totally worthwhile, yet 1MP/tick is useless and irrelevant. Right.

I fail to see how Ballad's duration is a factor when you can resing it over itself well before it wears off. It's a LOT easier to keep up Ballad for every single tick than it is to do the same with Evoker's.

But again, the OP is at dunes level - BRD or COR - MP pool is a joke for the 40 levels until you'd have more MP gear to draw from (unless you want to blow 2 mil on Astrals, anyway. But eating pies for MP will do nothing for marksmanship. Our primary melee is guns, our buffs are enhanced by PT jobs and we enhance debuffs.
And which bullets can we use in the dunes, again? GG on that.

So to recap: in the dunes, we can select from a bunch of SJs which won't improve your damage output at all, or we can use /BRD and help out the entire party (even Paeon is extremely useful in the dunes).

/BRD is one of the BEST SJs in the dunes, period. And I'm not just talking about COR.

The OP doesn't have them, so why suggest or even encourage things detrimental to his skills? This is why I hate so-called "endgame" players trying to give advice. Merit PTs and endgame have dulled your sensiblities and you have forgotten how jobs play at low level, You forget that what works at 75 [B]does not work at every level.
If you want to play that card, I'm pretty sure that I have more pre-75 experience on COR than you do, as well as more experience in endgame, dynamis, and merit PTs on COR than you do. I also have actually tried most of the SJs in question (my BRD isn't high enough, for reasons I've already stated). But you have a LV75 BRD, so I guess that means you win.

[Vyuru]

Cor is one of those beatiful jobs which is viable as pure support or support/DD.

Ah, but if only people would let you play as a support/DD (drg/rdm FTW!) :P

This whole "I don't have time" argument blows my mind, to be honest.


Oh, I can understand to a point. I don't have time to level all the jobs that'd really benefit my dragoon, so war is at 38/39, and rdm is at 44(wanted to make it to the AF stage, but got burned out) IMO drg/war > drg/thf, I don't really have time to level thief right now, and since I think that in exp parties, drg/war is a better option, I'm just not going to level thief for now. There are other reasons I'm holding off on leveling thf and whm as subs, but I already think I have the best subs leveled and for whm and thf, those are specific situations subs that I don't need right now.

So if this is what the OP thinks, I'm not going to get after her because she wants to go cor/whm, if she thinks that's the best job combo for her so be it, I've seen some good cor/whm in action, and I've seen some good cor/rng in action, both are beneficial to a party. Sure, cor/whm seems to play alot like a DD bard, pulls, shoots, buffs, curaga onto party at the end of a nasty fight. Is it the best DD combo? I wouldn't say so, but then is corsair considered a straight up DD class? I haven't played that much with them, but I've always thought of a corsair as a bard who can deal more damage, use rolls when you have them and shoot when you are waiting for the recast timers or however it works.

/BRD is and always has been one of the weakest subjob choices for any job in this game, period.

I disagree somewhat, I can see it being useful in some odd party setups, and maybe for a few specific situations, but in general I would probably agree with you, but cor/brd does sound intriguing, but if I had a brd or a rdm in the party, I wouldn't sub brd, and then if you have those, would a corsair even be invited to that party?

Is a few ticks of MP really gonna matter in EXP when i can help close a fight with slug or barrage and save people some healing?


I thought corsairs got those naturally?

And I agree with Karinya's post:

What to sub in PLD BLU DRK WHM BLM COR fighting crawlers and what to sub in NIN DRG THF SMN RDM COR fighting colibri are quite different questions. Why would anyone assume that they should have the same answer?


IMO I strongly believe there is no one "right" or "best" way to approach things, party setups and playing styles will be different, if you can make it work, then great.

[Iccarus]

The way I see it is.

It's your character do with it want you want to do and don't let others dictate on what you should be subbing.

Now I cant argue with the facts that /rng and /nin seem to be the most effective in terms of damage but not all Corsairs have to wield guns and shoot off their bullets. They are a Buffer and will always be that. Corsair's are not intended to blow apart enemies with ease.

Some could go /whm or even /rdm and /brd. Pick what ever subjob you want to have and level the character the way you want to level it.

I myself want to be able to fire off bullets and do some moderate damage. I'd even like to reach Slug Shot and be able to do a very decent amount of damage which is why I subbed /rng. Granted Ranger is not the job I love or have my heart in but I know if I do get this to 37 then I can enjoy what I want my Corsair to be.

If you get an invite asking you to change your subjob to nin or rng and you don't have it just say so and if they get real picky and don't invite you just move on. Some parties are not so picky so just hang in there ^^

People can throw statistics at you all day but at the end of the day this game was created so that you have fun, heck your paying £8 per month so you I'd make sure you were having fun!

Just enjoy yourself ^^

[Karinya]

BRD has no native ranged abilty and accuracy would take a nosedive 50+ even with gear, buffs and sushi factored in. Slugs would land less than they do /NIN and attack power would be lost, you can't deny it.
Wow, that's some serious ignorance right there. Skills of a subjob don't affect the skill cap of your main job unless the main job has 0 natural skill. COR/NIN, COR/WHM and COR/BRD all have the exact same marksmanship skill. The /NIN can gain a few points of racc from a second racc weapon (at high enough levels) and maybe 1-2 points from higher agi and that's it.

COR/RNG *will* have noticeably better racc - because of the Accuracy Bonus trait - and can even get higher skill from Gun Belt - but /NIN won't.

Nobody is denying that COR/RNG has its benefits, but in some (many) situations, a subjob that improves your personal damage is not as useful overall as one that provides better support functions to the party (sometimes /WHM, sometimes /BRD).
People always like to talk about merit PTs, but we're talking to a COR in the dunes and his BRD is 18 to boot, so let's not sidetrack, we're far enough off track as is. Anything goes in 75 Tardburn vs VT weaksauce mobs, so lets not even waste our time on it.
Well, if we're talking dunes, then /NIN can't offhand a racc weapon (hell, they can't offhand at all) and /RNG has no acc bonus. They have sharpshot, to enhance your mindblowing damage with bronze bullets.

In dunes, most of your between-rolls damage comes from MELEE, not shooting, because bronze bullets are so worthless. /WHM for Poisona (doesn't require much MP pool) and /BRD for Paeon are both decent; so is /WAR for an emergency voke, because COR's def and hp aren't that far behind another melee's at that low a level.
BRD Main's Minuet III and Minuet IV stacked lead to a 100+ attack bonus and can be pushed several points higher by HQ instruments skill gear, over 120 at least, probably more. Find me an attack food that matches that and then tell me you shouldn't be eating sushi 40+. These stats brought to you by 75BRD/37WHM.
Wait, what level were we talking about again? Level 75 buffs are rarely a consideration in deciding what foods to eat in level 40 parties. I'm not denying that sushi has its place, but 40 isn't it.

Anyway, this is a dishonest comparison. Meat eaters with even a moderate amount of acc gear can hit just fine with one minuet and one madrigal even on high eva mobs, so you're giving up only the weaker of the two minuets by dumping sushi. Many attack foods can give 75 or more atk (at high levels, since that's where your minuet numbers are from), not counting the str benefit they also give. Meat food and one minuet + one madrigal will almost always reach higher atk than sushi + double minuet. Acc works out about the same.
But that's the non-subbable tiers. Lets look at Minuet I and II from BRD and /BRD.
BRD main minuet I and II caps at around 49-50 attack. But what about /BRD?
Well, you can't stack em, so that's out. But how about that whopping +12 attack bonus from just singing Minuet II? That's from 65 RDM/BRD (95 singing skill, BRD main cap 227 pre-skill gear, yep, C rating) and I'm pretty sure Minuet II caps around 100 singing and wind. So we're talking maybe +15-17 attack here purely from singing. Pehaps it is nice to stack on Chaos Roll, but Chaos Roll would probably have given more, with or without DRK in PT. Sung minuet II pales in comparison to even Beserk or Warcry and if a BRD really wanted to go all out on attack bonuses, they'd do better with /WAR.
I hope that was a joke. Warcry through /WAR is only available at level 70, draws huge amounts of hate and only stays up for 30 sec out of every 5 min.

Yes, Chaos Roll is stronger than a subbed Minuet. But the combination of the two is always stronger than Chaos Roll alone (assuming the same number is rolled). Alternatively, Minuet + Rogue's + Warrior's rolls provide some attack increase along with the unique benefits of those rolls, which a COR/RNG or COR/NIN can't match. Those setups have to rely on their *personal* damage improving more than the minuet improves *everyone's* damage - including the 2-3 dedicated DDs who are attacking all the time instead of just between songs. (Or, in the case of the COR/NIN, you're just deciding that safer pulling is better than more party damage. That may or may not be true depending on the camp.)

You're also ignoring the possibility of March, which is a fixed percentage.
I'm tired of this misguided notion that melee can give themselves better attack buffs with food than what COR and BRD bring to the table.
The combination of attack food and atk + acc buffs is better than atk buffs alone with acc food. The math is quite clear.

Of course good DDs will have gear + food for a variety of possibilities, but DDs often sacrifice a LOT of atk for relatively small amounts of acc precisely because there is often no alternative other than missing a lot. When by giving them +20 acc you can free them up to change gear or food and gain +50 or more atk, it would be idiotic not to.

[Radel-King_of_Pirates]

Now as I sit here and dreading the fact seeing a cor/brd, hey not flaming I am sorry I can't lvl brd without havin to kill myself. Yes tried lvling got to 7 >_< might take it few more if I can make some more gil.

Now afer that being said Cor/brd can pull out some interesting results, the data I put together can result in a nice exp pt outcome (resaon I am not posting is that it is not truly exact yet since I am not a true brd and goin off friends' data) so far eh since I don't have a whm lvled high so only way I can get in curing without being gimped is /rdm.

But since I like hitting things I guess I have to look at a peacock charm/amulet. Which well does seem better then a flower charm and spike necklace which I got on now. But hey with +racc gear I can add on +att food or +mp food depends on which I need more.

[Galaxia]

to what I can tell from talkin to COR's on Bahamut
havin WHM and BRD lvld will only incrse my party chances alot ^^
might have to get the old chr+ gear out for afew lvls >.<

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Wow, that's some serious ignorance right there. Skills of a subjob don't affect the skill cap of your main job unless the main job has 0 natural skill. COR/NIN, COR/WHM and COR/BRD all have the exact same marksmanship skill. The /NIN can gain a few points of racc from a second racc weapon (at high enough levels) and maybe 1-2 points from higher agi and that's it.

COR/RNG *will* have noticeably better racc - because of the Accuracy Bonus trait - and can even get higher skill from Gun Belt - but /NIN won't.

Nobody is denying that COR/RNG has its benefits, but in some (many) situations, a subjob that improves your personal damage is not as useful overall as one that provides better support functions to the party (sometimes /WHM, sometimes /BRD).

No, this is some serious ignorance here. A non-MP job of any race that subs /WHM has a pitiful manapool to draw from, especially at low levels. Unless you give up accuracy gear and DD food for pie and astrals/electrum, you can't capitalize on /WHM efficiently for a very long time. Will you still DD OK to 50? Yes, but for much less damage/accuracy after 30 and expect massive diminishing returns shortly 50 if you stick with that MP gear. Without it, you won't even be able to Raise at 50 even as a Tarutaru. Guess what that means, after you've been so help tossing out a few Cure IIs, its time again to squat for MP and lose TP. Yay.

COR/BRD: (1) You're pretty much aspiring to be a refresh monkey (2) That aspiration fails since you constantly spend 2-3 minutes not benefitting from Evoker's Roll due to COR's strict buff rotation, you'd have to cut the COR buff rotation from 4 to 3 to make it viable and in the process, either the melees or the mages get screwed out of an additional COR buff. (3) If PTing with DRK, PLD or BLU, watch that COR rotation plummet down to 2 if you're not blessed with a RDM in PT post-41. But hey, /BRD is all about the Ballad, right? Wait, you can't access Ballad til 50. Oops. (4) Most people think you're a replacement for BRD or RDM. You're not and /BRD just fuels that misconception. IF you land a Finalie, it was a fluke, watch the next one get resisted. (6) lolAdvancing March, they'll take a BRD + WHM or RDM instead for Marchx2 + Haste instead most likely.


Well, if we're talking dunes, then /NIN can't offhand a racc weapon (hell, they can't offhand at all) and /RNG has no acc bonus. They have sharpshot, to enhance your mindblowing damage with bronze bullets.

In dunes, most of your between-rolls damage comes from MELEE, not shooting, because bronze bullets are so worthless. /WHM for Poisona (doesn't require much MP pool) and /BRD for Paeon are both decent; so is /WAR for an emergency voke, because COR's def and hp aren't that far behind another melee's at that low a level.

As always, just read before you bother to hit reply. I said it before, "Anything goes 1-30."

I'm not going to bother with the rest due to obvious ignorance regarding BRD buffs vs. Food.

[Spider-Dan]

COR/BRD: (1) You're pretty much aspiring to be a refresh monkey (2) That aspiration fails since you constantly spend 2-3 minutes not benefitting from Evoker's Roll due to COR's strict buff rotation, you'd have to cut the COR buff rotation from 4 to 3 to make it viable and in the process, either the melees or the mages get screwed out of an additional COR buff.
What are you talking about? You can keep up 4 rolls and a song with ease. At a bare minimum, there are 15 seconds where you can neither Double-Up nor roll (immediately after Double-Up window expires). Ballad takes 8 seconds to sing. Seems pretty simple.

(3) If PTing with DRK, PLD or BLU, watch that COR rotation plummet down to 2 if you're not blessed with a RDM in PT post-41. But hey, /BRD is all about the Ballad, right? Wait, you can't access Ballad til 50. Oops.
Where is all this time going? You can sing Ballad in the time it takes you to fire one non-hexagun shot. If you are that pressed for time already, how are you contributing any damage to the party at all?

(4) Most people think you're a replacement for BRD or RDM. You're not and /BRD just fuels that misconception. IF you land a Finalie, it was a fluke, watch the next one get resisted.
There are quite a few reports of reliable results on /BRD Finale; for example, this thread (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/red-mage/58351-brd-my-new-favorite.html?highlight=finale#post599061) and this one (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/white-mage/52295-whm-brd.html?highlight=finale#post525204).

(6) lolAdvancing March, they'll take a BRD + WHM or RDM instead for Marchx2 + Haste instead most likely.
As always, just read before you bother to hit reply. I said it before, "Anything goes 1-30."
Post-30, Madrigal is still a useful buff. I challenge you to provide a log of any pre-70 party hitting 95% accuracy. As far as March goes, saying that "they should just take BRD instead" completely misses the point. They could just take a BRD instead of a COR, period, but that's what why we're having this discussion! Finding ways to improve COR's value to the party.

[Galaxia]

I do have Astrals 2 of em ^^

[Galaxia]

btw thanks for everyone that replied apart from a certain loud mouthed somone but apart from them you was all been great

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

btw thanks for everyone that replied apart from a certain loud mouthed somone but apart from them you was all been great

Hey, some of us do right by the job and are proud of it, if that makes me a loudmouth, so be it. But at least I'm not bumping ancient topics to toss out veiled flames and false thank-yous. If you're gonna bump, bump something with substance.

No one was ever denying the utility of /WHM here, perhaps /BRD, but to ignore /NIN and /RNG subs completly is not playing the job to its full potential. I don't even like /NIN for the level 24-73 experience, but I can't deny the utility of it right now at 74+. I levelled it for a reason just like I'm working out /WHM now. It has a purpose and a place, its most effective place just isn't in the majority of EXP levels.

If you're not going to play a job to potential, then don't play it. You seem to be willing to play SMN to potential, I just take exception to the fact you're not willing to show this job the same respect. What you do doesn't affect me, but it makes people question CORs on your server.