Blm topic :)

[whazzy]

Ok. I always wanted to be a taru mage and i really want blm as my main job. But it seems to me that the only viable option for subbing blm is whm... but i don't feel like subbing whm cause i'll heal more than doing some black magic, and bein a whm wouldnt fit with my character story. So i was thinking what would be good to sub as blm?
-Rdm? Dont even talk about it
-Bard could be really good
-Summoner not a lot of info on this... still it could be really great
-melee class? not good with mage

So only 2 good thing for me would be Bard or summoner.
what u guys think about it?

Don't tell that i can be whatever i want and blablabla. I want STATS. I want my character to be good :) neway anything that makes my char a taru mage would make me happy.

Hoping for some answers
:biggrin:

and feel free to talk about anything related to blm on this topic:spin:

[Mystic Fury]

im not an importer, so i havent played the game, and i cant give you stats, but i can give you some thoughts on the subject. think of it this way, if you sub with white mage, but your primary job is black mage, then, from experience with other games, people will see you as a black mage when considering to party with you. The white mage support is mainly if 1) your healer dies 2) if your healer is busy doing something else or 3) if you need to heal yourself. (there may be other scenarios, not sure) by putting black mage as your primary job, your still expected to preform as a black mage, with heavy spell damage. the white mage sub job is more of a privilege. people arent expecting you to heal them, but will be greatful if you do.

With all that said, if you want to change, i would go with summoner as your sub job. your already high Int and MP fit very well with a summoner. otherwise, stick with White mage.

[whazzy]

Yeah summoner really looks good, but hey theres gonna be a LOAD of em'

I know whm and summoner would prlby be best but...
what you think about bard?
they have great support abilities, and a regen ability for mana (dont remember the name) this could be really be helpful for being a blm you need a lot of mp... right? But i guess a party wouldnt want a blm casting some support magic...

[Mystic Fury]

hmm....well, i dont know to much about bards in this game, so i cant help much. but, if they have pre-battle support abilities, then subbing with bard isnt a bad idea. mana regen is also pretty helpful, and at times when the enemy is very spell resistant, giving the melee classes support is great, if thats how bards play. if not, then i would go with summoner or white mage to capitalize on your high magic stats.

[whazzy]

hmmm what you think are bard main attributes?
Int?
chr?

[Mystic Fury]

most likely charisma, though if they're anything like they are in other games (jack of all trades, master of none) then every stat should be not maxed, but sufficicent, with charisma the main focus.

[whazzy]

What are benefits of charisman in ffxi? lower npcs price?
neway this getting more of a bard topic than blm

bah... I'll just prlby stick with blm/whm. but ill try summoner and bard as sub too just to make different.

[IleDeusMorpheus]

First off: in general ... NEVER ever ever ever ever under any circumstances on pain of death shalt thou use Bard as a sub for anything ever!!! :sweat: :spin: or Ranger for that matter

With that said - I understand your thinking in going for a BLM/WHM. And indeed, that is an excellent combo that will yield you much happiness and all. BUT ...

Square Enix has seen the game become absolutely choked full of these 'Panda mages' and has decided to discourage their existence. How, you ask? Well ...

What makes the Panda mage so great? A lot of MP. So they gave the new Summoner class the following: a) the ability to summon and b) a whole big huge friggin' buttload of MP.

BLM/SMN is the way to go for you, I believe.

[Maxim]

The problem with subbing bard is that you can only have one song casted on your party members at all time, plus you can't use instruments so you don't get the instrument bonuses when you sing. Only a real bard can have two songs casted on you at once, plus they get the benefit of using an instrument. You don't even get the MP regen ability until level 25, meaning your black mage will have to be level 50 in order to make any use of the bard whatsoever.

Subbing summoner won't be happening any time soon since you'll have to be high leveled to get the quest and obtain the job anyway. When you get to level 18, you'll be able to do the sub-job quest, and will be forced to choose SOMETHING to sub, so until you get the summoner job you'll have to choose one of the starting jobs for your sub. I believe the summoner doesn't get the MP regen until level 20 or something like that, and if it's anything like the white mage's HP regen passive ability, it won't help much, because it regens very slowly, however summoners seem to have the most MP in the game so far so that'll probably compensate.

So when it comes down to it, your only options for an extra MP boost is either red mage or white mage, and MP is all you really need when you're fighting in parties. If you lose all of it, you're basically useless. Since white mages get more MP than red mages, most black mages sub that.

[whazzy]

Thx a lot guys:biggrin:
Then it's gonna be blm/whm and once i get summoner blm/smn

You guys know about pricing of spells?
I heard that starting as blm as your fisrt job was hard 'cause you didn't have the money to buy some of the first spells? is that true?

[IleDeusMorpheus]

Well, if you start in Windy like most Tarus, then spell pricing shouldn't be too much of a problem at first. If you're good with money (gawd, you have to be in this game) you'll be okay for a while.

That said, the really good high-level magics are helllllllza expenseive. That or you have to go on a really really tough quest to get them (think: Flare quest :dead: :dead: ) ... :sweat:

[Aerex_CoW]

Im wondering. When summoner pets attack do they keep building hate for the caster or just on the pet and minor hate for the caster. Cuz WHM/SUM could be cool, Healing ability, extra mp, and the ability to summon a pet for a little extra damage during battle but it would be kinda bad if the pet builds alot of hate for the caster compounded with the hate WHMs already get from healing.

[Maxim]

All the low-leveled spells are extremely cheap. You'll be able to buy them easily in the beginning of the game without any problem. If you start off as a black mage, you'll automatically come with your first spell Stone, so you don't need to be worried about running around without spells. Even if you don't start off as one, you'll be able to buy it from NPC stores for only a couple gil. It doesn't matter where you start off in the beginning either, since all the NPC magic stores sells the same generic spells, but there are certain higher-leveled spells that are only sold in certain cities. For example, so far the only place I've seen Dispel being sold is Windurst, as well as all the En-Elemental spells, and I noticed Bastok doesn't carry any status healing spells, although San d'Oria does. Most of these things you can get at the auction anyway.

[Maxim]

About the summoner's question, if you only have your summon doing all the attacking, then all the hate goes to the summon, thus the summon loses HP while you stand back and spectate. If you jump in and fight with your summon though, the damage you do will create hate toward yourself, and the damage the summons do will draw hate toward itself, and so on and so on.

[dbeeo]

For SMN....


although your pet will do damage to the monster, but the hate will transfer to you directly :sweat: << this is what i heard from the smn...

still when you are whm, it is better (and the best) to concentrat only healing only (especially after being high lvl).

for blm, you also need to be smart how to spend your mp. especially when your PT want to start renkei and you just found out you run out of mp... mean no MB... :sweat:

[Aerex_CoW]

I was thinking at the beggining of the battle a WHM/SUM could just send their pet in to attack and then forget about the pet. Let the pet do some extra damage while you focus on healing the tank. Then you would be helping in the battle that much more and you would also get a MP bonus by having SUM as your secondary. Of course you wouldnt focus on anything but healing, but having a pet along to help boost your damage output would be at least a little help. Specially if you have good tanks and the monster doesnt use any AE spells, then your pet would put out consistant damage throughout the fight and you would still be able to focus on healing with a decent ammout of MP.

[Maxim]

Dbeeo, are you sure the hate transfers to the summoner and not the summon itself? I'm know when the summon dies the monster will come attack the summoner regardless of whether the summoner did anything or not, but if the summoner stands far away from the summon and the monster fighting, the summoner is relatively safe assuming the summon stays alive.

Also, I would advice not to use any MP unless it's a real emergency if you're a summoner. MP drains every second your summon is out, so if you use MP to heal members your summon will disappear all the more quicker. The opposite is true if you're a WHM/SUM, because if you have your summon out you'll be wasting MP that could be used to keep members alive. This is why Red Mages aren't really welcome in parties since they're hybrids, and can't do anything well although they can do a little bit of everything.

[dbeeo]

Originally posted by Maxim
Dbeeo, are you sure the hate transfers to the summoner and not the summon itself? I'm know when the summon dies the monster will come attack the summoner regardless of whether the summoner did anything or not, but if the summoner stands far away from the summon and the monster fighting, the summoner is relatively safe assuming the summon stays alive.



ya.... after read you thread that just post right before my thread, I also become not sure about it... :sweat: maybe we need to check about it again??? :sweat:

wait... so far, I PT with two summoner... seem that the hate didnt transfer to summoner. maybe you are right. (or because there is a tanker??) ???

[Aerex_CoW]

Ahhh, I was not aware that a summoners MP drained while the summon was up. Well that smashes any ideas I had of using SUM for a sub heh.

[ninjaturtle]

I think if u send ur sumon to fight the hate stays on them, but they generate such little agro each hit that if you come in a start swinging, you will generate regular agro and would have agro on you pretty soon. Also maybe if another char is in monsters attack range maybe the monster will automatically attack the char instead of the pet.
And i think red mage would actually be good for blm cuz at lvl 15sub job you can cast faster and 20sub you can do more magic damage.

[whazzy]

mp drain is REALLY bad on a blm... so that makes smn pretty much a bad idea to sub

well only viable options is whm now...:sweat:
maybe rdm... but whm a lot better

EDIT: hmm just found that
a lvl 50blm subbing 25whm stats are
hp:518
mp: 623
str: 33
dex: 47
vit: 36
agi: 51
int:63
mnd:42
char:46

lvl50blm subbing 25rdm
hp:530
mp: 610
str:33
dex:48
vit:36
agi: 51
int: 64
mnd: 40
char: 45

source: http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~nhart/Status_calculator.htm


so that basically means that subbing rdm is better stat wise than whm... int is higher but mp is lower... hmm i don't know

now it's not that much of a difference... but abilities will make the difference. So having white magic around is good and everybody knows it...but i'd like to know what good abilities would the rdm give to the blm??

[Kei]

Bard theoretically could be a great sub for Black Mage at a good level. You would have songs that raise any of your stats (Exp. - Intellect would be nice). Then you have the MP Regenerating song, which would help you tons. Not to mention you might be harder to kill if you have the HP Regenerating song or something on. The songs are really useful with Black Mage. Also, Silence Resistance rises. This helps great when your main weapon is magic. You don't want to be silenced, that should be your worst fear. That and running out of MP, lol.

To sum it up...yeah Bard would work great if you don't want to be BLM/WHM.

[Chipmunk777]

BLM/BRD is more of a soloing character. Me, im gonna go BLM/WHM, and if i really need it, ill just have a BRD in the party. thats a lot easier than subbing, because BRD is never really a good sub anyway (can have only 1 song equipped at a time, if sub).

[Bantam]

I'm kind of confused about the whole "thou shalt not sub bard" thing that keeps coming up in lots of places. Is only being able to play one song really so critical that it's a huge step down? I just have trouble seeing how it's so bad. Sure, it's one song, but that can be a help, right?

But I don't have the game, so that might be why I don't understand.

[KosMos]

Originally posted by Bantam
I'm kind of confused about the whole "thou shalt not sub bard" thing that keeps coming up in lots of places. Is only being able to play one song really so critical that it's a huge step down? I just have trouble seeing how it's so bad. Sure, it's one song, but that can be a help, right?

But I don't have the game, so that might be why I don't understand.

A plain old bard can have two songs running. That is a lot better than limiting yourself to one song on your party.

[whazzy]

I really think the problem whith subbing bard, is more of a problem with instruments, than the fact that u can't have two songs running at the same time.

I really agree with IleDeusMorpheus now, subbing bard IS a bad idea...

Lol my choice is not even made: blm/whm is the best possibility, but i don't wanna be like everybody... Grrr hard choices

[Aerex_CoW]

It seems that if you have a good soloing strategy you could use Bard as your sub to decrease your downtime. Play a MP or HP regen song and you can get back to killing quicker. Might not work all that well in a group but hey, it does help a little.