Post-update RNG results

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Keep in I'm on PS2, so this is more or less me eyeing my averages as I can't parse. Feel free to post your results as well.

Levels 61-62
EXP Mob: Defoliators
Sub: Warrior
Food used: Squid Sushi
Moon Phase: Full Moon
Weapons used: Heavy Xbow, Selene Bow and Musketeer Gun +1
Ammo: (Acid bolts, Darksteel), (Demon Arrows), (Silver Bullets)
Average Damage/Zerk Damage: (Darksteel-75/95) (Demon 85/103) (silver 90, 113)
Respective Slugwinder Damage: (xbow 500-515), (bow capped at 650) (gun 590-650)

Most WS were done under Berzerk status.

Gun Range - within melee range of mob to three paces away
Xbow range - three to nine paces from mob
Bow - nine to twelve paces from mob

WS missed in PT: one

[Kirsteena]

I won't repeat what my friend said after testing, but lets just say the results left him a very VERY happy ranger.

[Davitron3000]

I won't repeat what my friend said after testing, but lets just say the results left him a very VERY happy ranger.
Similar for me. We started Limbus right after the update, and one of my friends who is a Ranger seemed 'meh' about the changes. By the end of the run it had become the "great ranger un-nerf of '06". :)

[Thott]

Sweet can't wait to do some rng fun tonight

[Caspian]

Bow sweetspot seems to extend to nearly just this side of melee range. Lot more leeway in getting max damage.
As for damage itself, can't say much. Did Leujaom cleansing last night, but I'd never done it before with Selene's bow, so I wasn't sure how much of it was the bow and how much, if any, was the update.
Just for reference, with zerk and couerl subs, I was hitting for just over 200 per shot, Sidewinder for 1200-1400 with PPA, and with just food was hitting for ~170 and ws'ing for ~1050.
One thing I did notice, and has been commented on by other people in other boards: accuracy seems to be light years better. I never missed a slug and was usually firing as soon a I hit 100%, which used to mean I'd miss a fair amount of shots. Didn't miss a single one last night, over the course of 3 runs. It would seem all that added r. acc. we always carry is actually doing something again.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

betweeen the 16k I did last night on RNG and the 7k I did on COR (I got sleepy by this time, had to call it a night) it was three slugs missed total. So with COR factored in, it is a real improvement.

Nice thing overall is now I no longer feel the overwhelming need to keep stacking more and more accuracy gear, I already have tons. I still lack Deadeye gloves, Vison Earring and Precise belt I've been planning to work on, but I may re-evaluate and get other gear for those slots instead. May still go after Deadeyes tho.

I was really pleased with my accuracy considering I gave up dual wield with /WAR and just stuck to my Trailer's Kukri. Prior to the update I did miss slugwinders a bit as /WAR. Less with /NIN but it was more frustrating when it happened /NIN. Now I don't know if I want to go back to /NIN, I'm really happy with RNG/WAR post update. The accuracy from food and gear really feels like it matters again.

[Akashimo]

Last night i was exping with a rng/war, and lets just say after that, rng > mnk as a DD in my book now. About 200 more or less a hit, with ws ranging from 1000 to 2300 o.O, and my hnmls leader went out on his rng after logging in and was all happy like a giggling school girl from this after testing it out on some mobs. Anyone predicting a rise of NIN/RNG with guns or new shurikens in the later weeks?

[Cometgreen]

So we can probably start to eat meat full time, then? It's also looking like /SAM might be able to replace /NIN, with the exception of dual-wield.

I'll be PTing tonight, if I can hold out that long.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Well, RNG was always a low pop class due to expense and COR has started to see a decline for the same reason. A lot of the zomgitsapirate kiddies have left the class now that they have their AF and their Captain Jack Sparrow chubby has puttered out. Plus, now that there are a jillion WARs out there wailing on imps at no cost... I don't expect a huge rise in population for either class.

Some old RNGs may come back and some may come in looking for an endgame mealticket like the did in the old days, but I think the class will stay small. Plus people think this is more of an expensive job that it actually is, not realizing that much of our best gear we pick up at no cost.

I won't tell them if you won't.

...oops.

[Caspian]

bbqkitten, what food were you eating in your xp? I'm guessing sushi, no? Also, what tp did you usually shoot your slugwinders at?
I'll still be subbing /nin in parties where I pull, but I always tried to use /war as much as I could even before this. Now I'll definately be subbing war as much as possible. Probably even try meat or curry as often as possible now too. Shouldn't be too bad on anything other than the few super high evasion mobs we xp on (toramas, raptors, etc.).
I plan to xp again tonight, hopefully I'll have some eyeballed data to bring back, may even try d/l'ing a parser before I start.

[Omni]

Everything looks very promising. I have a sky run tonight, so I'll be bringing /war and I'll wear wvyrens helm, archers jupon and fire staff and let you guys know how it goes.

[Hantz]

their Captain Jack Sparrow chubby has puttered out.

:rofl:

This made coming to work today, completely worth it.

[VZX]

Everything looks very promising. I have a sky run tonight, so I'll be bringing /war and I'll wear wvyrens helm, archers jupon and fire staff and let you guys know how it goes.
I'll definitely looking forward for the report

I've heard enough from EP - exp PT damage

now time to see other activities damage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

bbqkitten, what food were you eating in your xp? I'm guessing sushi, no? Also, what tp did you usually shoot your slugwinders at?
I'll still be subbing /nin in parties where I pull, but I always tried to use /war as much as I could even before this. Now I'll definately be subbing war as much as possible. Probably even try meat or curry as often as possible now too. Shouldn't be too bad on anything other than the few super high evasion mobs we xp on (toramas, raptors, etc.).
I plan to xp again tonight, hopefully I'll have some eyeballed data to bring back, may even try d/l'ing a parser before I start.

I went with squid sushi, yeah. I kinda went nuts on stocking ammo the last to days in anticipation of the update, so there was little gil left for food. I just went with the food I already had laying around :biggrin:

As far as slugwinders went, I varied. The PT setup was MP-heavy (PLD, BLU, RDM, WHM, BLM) so I was really the only melee DD there, slugging too early only meant hate issues and MP sponging. If I had 100 and there was lots of HP left, I just did a Heavy Shot at 100, then resumed building TP and Slugging around 100-150 TP at the end. I was competing with a self-SCing BLU and a BLM to close fights, so it was tight sometimes.

But as far as the difference in accuracy lanching slug from 100 or even 300, I didn't see much of a difference save for the one slug I did miss at 100 TP. Just one though.

[Omni]

Went to sky tonight, didnt actually do any runs. Just farmed tonight.

BB x2, Faust and MG.

I dont have parser running but all I have to say is that it's really nice to have rng back as close to pre-nerf form as they can possibly bring it w/o it being exactly how it was pre-nerf.

I did not miss any slugshots tonight. I let most of them go around 150-200, however before this update I can remember on a number of times where I have 200+ tp and still miss.

I shot from all around the place. melee range, just outside melee range, optimal range, outside optimal range and way outside optimal range.

Now before this update, if I was too far from optimal range both my dmg and acc would take a major dive.

As I said, I dont have parser info but the gist of it goes a bit like this:

If my optimal range shot hit for 130, I noticed that being anywhere from just outside melee range to outside optimal range would yield 130 +/- 10dmg approximately. inside melee range dmg dips a bit more BUT acc is still a lot better than before. Way outside optimal range, my acc was still pretty good as was the case with MG because she was being kited. dmg was close to the optimal range dmg as well.

The distances that I shot from ranged from (if you use the distance plugin) 2 (melee range) 4-5 (just outside melee range) 8-9 (optimal for xbow) 11-12 (outside optimal) and 18-19 (way outside optimal).

Anyhow, if I get more time and can get organized, I'll try to take some numbers down to make a comparison. With the 2 hrs I spent tonight in the game, I was very pleased.

[Caspian]

Thanks Omni. Pretty much what I've been reading elsewhere too. Seems dmg got a little boost and accuracy is MUCH better now. Have to see how my dmg is on xp mobs, but I may be sticking with meat 99% of the time now.
Thanks again.

[Omni]

yea i ate meat while killing some adds and had no trouble landing shots. i know for a fact before, even when facing T mobs, eating meat still gave me acc issues. I ate sole sushi when taking on the trigger nms and sis kebabi for all other times.

I cant wait to hit the mire and see how a STR heavy build + meat and /war would do. I might just get myself killed even. :D

[Cometgreen]

Hmm, my experience tonight was not as mindblowing as I had hoped, but I think it was just poor circumstances. I was in a 59-60 pt fighting crawlers in Aydeewa, so they were IT++. My first battle was awesome - 9 for 9, so I popped a sis kebabi. I had a bard hitting me with prelude, so I thought it would be fine, but a few battles were just horrible until I hit 60. When I first equipped my gun, I only hit 4/11. I weeped for those lost silver bullets...

But after 60, I died and delvled, and switched to sole sushi. It got much better, with my lowest hit rate being 10/12 with my xbow. I ended up having the best damage even without slugwinders factored in. So despite the bad first impression, it does seem like accuracy really has been beefed up, which is all I wanted. And I'm assuming that, when I'm not fighting IT+ and update some of my gear (AF body, deadeye gloves), I can get about the same accuracy with meat.

The distance penalty is definitely pulled back; in fact it seems like the damage only drops when I enter melee range. But I found Berserk to be acting very strangely. I used to always see atleast ~20 dmg increase with my arrows with Berserk up, but the dmg increase here seemed random. It's almost as if there was a cap on how much additional ratk I could have, because with sis kebabi+minuet, my Berserk didn't seem to add anything. It's probably just my imagination, and I'll get another group tomorrow, but it had me worried.

[Omni]

I just participated in the Lv. 6 besieged. I ate sis kebabi the first half hour and was about to hit everything pretty well. i went like 13/15 on slugs. I spent most my time chipping away at Medusa. I found that even at distance 18-20, i was still able to consistantly land shots on medusa. the 2 slugs i missed were on medusa and both were let go under 150% tp.

After my sis kebabi wore off, I ate a sole sushi. dmg dropped off but acc was great. I remember facing Medusa before and I had the hardest time landing consistant shots. I tried to stay out of range of most of her moves. Considering that all her moves hit pretty damn hard and petrify too.

More as I go along...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Hmm, my experience tonight was not as mindblowing as I had hoped, but I think it was just poor circumstances. I was in a 59-60 pt fighting crawlers in Aydeewa, so they were IT++. My first battle was awesome - 9 for 9, so I popped a sis kebabi. I had a bard hitting me with prelude, so I thought it would be fine, but a few battles were just horrible until I hit 60. When I first equipped my gun, I only hit 4/11. I weeped for those lost silver bullets...

But after 60, I died and delvled, and switched to sole sushi. It got much better, with my lowest hit rate being 10/12 with my xbow. I ended up having the best damage even without slugwinders factored in. So despite the bad first impression, it does seem like accuracy really has been beefed up, which is all I wanted. And I'm assuming that, when I'm not fighting IT+ and update some of my gear (AF body, deadeye gloves), I can get about the same accuracy with meat.

The distance penalty is definitely pulled back; in fact it seems like the damage only drops when I enter melee range. But I found Berserk to be acting very strangely. I used to always see atleast ~20 dmg increase with my arrows with Berserk up, but the dmg increase here seemed random. It's almost as if there was a cap on how much additional ratk I could have, because with sis kebabi+minuet, my Berserk didn't seem to add anything. It's probably just my imagination, and I'll get another group tomorrow, but it had me worried.

You probably hit the camp just a little too early for your level. Also, BRD Prelude just can't match what you get from sushi - Prelude is a flat bonus, Sushi is a percentage bonus - that's why it boggles my mind why any RNG would take Preludes and meat over Minuet and sushi with a BRD in PT. What attack Minuet gives makes attack bonuses from meat look like a joke.

As for Beserk, I think it's just you being there a couple levels early, the boost from zerk was 15-20 more per shot on arrows and guns, it was xbow that felt a bit more random for me. But then, I was alternating Darksteels, Holys and Acids, so maybe I just didn't keep track so well. I have a lot of holy bolt excess, I a burn them at will. With Gun it was just Silvers and with Bow I shot Demons and switched to Bodkin when i ran out.

I did a level 5 Besieged last night against the Trolls. At 62, the accuracy was much more consistant with most of the targets engaged, I'd say maybe 75 percent hit rate. But with the NMs, it just dropped off. I'd say I was just too low to hit the likes of Gurfurler the Menacing consistantly or for much damage. Still compared to previous runs at level 61, the accuracy improvement was very noticable.

[Lmnop]

What attack Minuet gives makes attack bonuses from meat look like a joke.

I don't know exact numbers, but I don't think that's quite true...

I guess double minuets will end up giving a bit more, but I don't think it's extremely significant. From a melee perspective, I'm always happiest with one Madrigal, one Minuet, and Attack food. But I could see how for a RNG, just eating sushi and getting Double Minuet would be easiest on BRD as well. Though if you're in an party with melee who all demand marches, the BRD could stick you with Preludes easier than they could stick you with double minuets w/out hitting the melees (that's one hell of a BRD).

[Omni]

I guess double minuets will end up giving a bit more, but I don't think it's extremely significant.

whoa whoa whoa here. double minuet is awesome. its not just slightly better, it makes a large difference.

last pt in mire, i had a brd giving me double minuet. however a lot of the times im pulling too and standing away from melee to be able to leave early and get the next pull so i get hit with ballad or some other random song.

anyhow, with o-bow + darksteel on imps no songs, id be hitting for ~110. with only 1 minuet, it pops up to about ~130. with 2 minuets, i can reach 165-180. with discoball+minuet x2, i was hitting for 200+ a shot. only with 2 minuets is when i was able to pop slugshots for 1000+, whenever i had 1 or no minuet, my slugs dropped to 700-900. with discoball+minuets, i was able to reach 1400+ on slugs with obow+darksteel.

dont underestimate the power of minuets. if you want raw dmg increase, minuet gives you the biggest instant upgrade around behind popping meat.

[greydaze]

Okay, I'm going to post my findings last night on 64 RNG.

PT setup:

SMN 63
WHM 62
RDM 62
RNG 64
RNG 64
NIN 64


Gear:

Fransisca
Trailer's Kukri
Selene's Bow
Demon Arrows
AF Hat
RNG Necklace
Drone Earring x2
AF Body
Noct Gloves +1
Scorpion Rings x2
Amemit Mantle
RK Belt +1
AF Pants
AF Boots


Now, the other RNG was using the EXACT same gear, except:

Scorpion Ring +1 = Woodsman's Ring
Amemit Mantle = Amemit Mantle +1
AF Pants = Jaridah Pants


So, the other RNG had +13 RATK over me and +1 STR.

FOOD:

Me = Coeurl Sub
Other RNG = Sole Sushi


CAMP:

Mount Zhaolym- Magma Erucas


With Ecliptic Howl, I was landing a good 9/10 shots. While the other RNG had a little better accuracy (very small difference; we were reaching 100% TP at virtually the same time), her shots were doing noticably less.

ME: 102-108 (no Growl)/110-118 (with Growl)
HER: 80-87 (no Growl)/90-102 (with Growl)

Sidewinders were nearly identical, with me doing about 685 per SW and her about 650 per. I missed four sidewinders in a two hour PT. She missed maybe three.

The really strange thing? I couldn't find the difference between melee distance and the sweet spot! I swear, there was a literal 5-10 damage per shot difference. Does anyone else notice this? I thought maybe I was just missing the spot, but id step back, step forward, move around... Nothing. Just that same difference.

[Cometgreen]

Though if you're in an party with melee who all demand marches, the BRD could stick you with Preludes easier than they could stick you with double minuets w/out hitting the melees (that's one hell of a BRD).

With the exception of one awesome JP party, this is how it's always been. The melees at my level generally want minuet and something else (madrigal or march), so getting double minuets just for the rng is not that practical for the brd. I can see why sushi+minuetx2 is better than meat+prelude, I just don't think I'll be seeing it again for a while.

And I definitely agree that we were fighting crawlers a bit too early, and that is probably why berserk was not all that great. I do remember my bolts doing noticeably more damage with Berserk when fighting VT puktraps at lvl 60.

[VZX]

Thanks for all the numbers guys :D

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I guess double minuets will end up giving a bit more, but I don't think it's extremely significant. From a melee perspective, I'm always happiest with one Madrigal, one Minuet, and Attack food. But I could see how for a RNG, just eating sushi and getting Double Minuet would be easiest on BRD as well. Though if you're in an party with melee who all demand marches, the BRD could stick you with Preludes easier than they could stick you with double minuets w/out hitting the melees (that's one hell of a BRD).

Well, now you're talking about he numbskull TP burn PT trend and Marches have more to do with speeding up recast timers and dual wield rather than enhance damage. A good BRD is going to be able to decide whats best for the whole without catering exclusively to subjobs... and the upcoming BRDs have been lacking in quality since ToA. Haste and Slow don't affect RNG directly and if I'm pulling as BRD the last thing I'd want is two more songs tacked on my rotation when I can just hit every melee with minuets and pull.

Marchx2 was never called upon pre-ToA and I only roll with IT+ PTs as BRD now. As RNG and COR, I have to actively tell mages they're wasting MP on me with Haste.

Anyway, hopefully /SAM will catch on and the haste added from the Hasso ability will hopefully shake up PT setups and get not onlt RNGs in them but also change BRDs songs.

As an aside, have there been any arrowburn PT forming up with RNGs and CORs yet?

[Cometgreen]

OK, got a good group this afternoon, chaining lesser colibris as lvl 60 RNG. It seemed like sis kebabi gave me a 40 dmg increase per shot with all my weapons, whereas Berserk consistently gave me +40 dmg for xbow/gun, and +50 for bow, which is definitely a bigger improvement than what I got as a 59 RNG on them last week. Without food and Berserk, my Sidewinders did about 850; with sis kebabi, about 1000-1100; with sis kebabi + Berserk, about 1400. I also hit my first 4 digit Barrage, and got decent Barrages without Sharpshot. In fact, I never had a complete miss, which was refreshing.

I'd have to say I agree with the new theory that ratk buffs have a bigger influence depending on the mob's level. There was a small change with Berserk on IT++ crawlers last night, a noticeable change on VT puktraps, and a pretty huge change on VT (almost T) lesser colibris. Anyone see similar results?

As for distance, I saw a consistent decrease of ~14% in damage with all buffs when going from sweetspot to melee. My holy bolts would do ~150 from xbow sweetspot and ~130 from melee. My arrows would do ~230 from bow sweetspot and ~200 from melee.

I only wish I had a Selene's Bow and a brd. Given that it was new moon, I probably could have reached 300 per shot (I did get a few 300 crits, though).

[greydaze]

Another set of numbers I c/p from a parser. Keep in mind, I was in melee range (hell, an extra 5 TP every once in a while? sure!), so my accuracy is recorded MUCH lower than it was. I would estimate 85% ranged accuracy to 15-30% melee accuracy. We didn't get to go long, but iot was good fast XP while it lasted.

Experience
Start: 12:00:00 AM
Total Exp: 7123
Per Hour: 0
Per Minute: 0

Experience Chains
EXP Chain #0: 1157 - 7 times, 165.29 average.
EXP Chain #1: 1383 - 7 times, 197.57 average.
EXP Chain #2: 1273 - 7 times, 181.86 average.
EXP Chain #3: 1423 - 7 times, 203.29 average.
EXP Chain #4: 1386 - 6 times, 231 average.
EXP Chain #5: 501 - 2 times, 250.5 average.

__Kaithran (RNG 64)
Total Fights: 35
Average Damage: 734.2
Average Percent: 31.87
Average Accuracy: 61.54
Estimated DPS:


__Crebian (SAM 65)
Total Fights: 34
Average Damage: 809.09
Average Percent: 34.31
Average Accuracy: 82.13
Estimated DPS:

__Orinthia (DRK64)
Total Fights: 35
Average Damage: 517.97
Average Percent: 22.27
Average Accuracy: 75.35
Estimated DPS:

__Nihi (PLD 66)
Total Fights: 35
Average Damage: 263.37
Average Percent: 11.32
Average Accuracy: 54.1
Estimated DPS:


And below, the specifics from two battles.


__Kaithran - The Magmatic Eruca(1)
Melee Damage: 3, 26,
Ranged Damage: 105, 105, 102, 105, 105, 105,
Total Damage: 656

__Nihi - The Magmatic Eruca(1)
Melee Damage: 19, 39, 34, 24,
Heals: 192,192,
Recovered: 192,192,
Total Damage: 116

__Orinthia - The Magmatic Eruca(1)
Melee Damage: 92, 80, 86, 71,
Total Damage: 329

__Crebian - The Magmatic Eruca(1)
Melee Damage: 74, 118, 81, 84,
Total Damage: 357




__Kaithran - The Magmatic Eruca(2)
Melee Damage: 12, 5, 1, 8,
Ranged Damage: 105, 105, 105, 105, 105, 105, 105, 38,
Total Damage: 799

__Orinthia - The Magmatic Eruca(2)
Melee Damage: 77, 86, 86, 124, 84,
Spells: 105 (Drain),
Total Damage: 562

__Nihi - The Magmatic Eruca(2)
Melee Damage: 43, 46, 32, 35, 46, 35, 35, 25, 24, 46, 46, 46,
Heals: 192,192,
Recovered: 192,192,191,
Total Damage: 459

[VZX]

I'd have to say I agree with the new theory that ratk buffs have a bigger influence depending on the mob's level. There was a small change with Berserk on IT++ crawlers last night, a noticeable change on VT puktraps, and a pretty huge change on VT (almost T) lesser colibris. Anyone see similar results?
Yes,
here's my temporary conclusion on damage-distance curve
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/vzx/sketch2.jpg