Hasso

[eva00r]

SAM Hasso
- Gives X STR, 10 Accuracy and -10% Delay at level 75.

STR Bonus
Floor of SAM level / 7 = STR Bonus

25 + 3 STR
28 + 4 STR
35 + 5 STR
42 + 6 STR
49 + 7 STR
56 + 8 STR
63 + 9 STR
70 + 10 STR

Accuracy test
64 acc and check monster -> Nothing
65 acc and check monster -> low evasion (+10)

54 acc + Hasso and check monster -> Nothing
55 acc + Hasso and check monster -> low evasion (+10 from Hasso)

Delay test
With Hasso - Earth Staff 10 hits -> 55.5s
No Hasso - Earth Staff 10 hits -> 61.7s (-10% from Hasso)

Magic Recast Penalty
50% more recast time of any spells, songs and ninjutsus.

Test
Reraise recast time from 60s -> 90s

Hope this helps :)

[Medalink]

Nice job, thanks for the info.

Medalink

[eticket109]

Nice, but not quite the uber SJ ability everyone thought.

I still plan to level SAM to test it out on DRG/SAM.

Awesome for SAM main though. SAM/WAR with Hasso + Berserk + Double Attack + Meditate... wow

[Celeal]

Very nice info, thx for sharing ^^

I tried Hasso from my 62 SAM and 62 WAR/SAM, I notice my 62 SAM gain +8 STR, while my 62 WAR/SAM only gain +4 STR. I am wondering is the acc+ from Hasso constant through all levels, or is it increase while SAM's level goes up?

For "-10% Delay" OP mentioned, is it 10% Haste (which does not affect TP gain per hit), or -10% weapon delay (which also lower the TP gain per hit)?

[Skoal]

I have read on other boards that is a 10% haste and not a -10% delay. If anyone can confirm this please do.

[Lmnop]

66 war/sam gets +4 STR from Hasso, while 73 drg/sam got +5.

I have a feeling the bonus will be the same for everything. You tested 10% haste/acc because you have +10 STR. I think if I'm getting +4 STR, I'm probably also getting +4 acc, and +4% haste. I have yet to test in a manor anywhere remotely resembling controlled. Watching the recast timer tick down on Hasso to measure the time between Great axe swings. Enough to know that it's not knocking it from 8 seconds to 7.

Seigan is pretty slick, it seems. Same Drg/sam friend was playing with it and loving it. 2x counters followed by 2x misses at one point. He got 2 counters in a row a couple of times.

This update sucks for MNKs (on an individuality level, not a game-balance level). As a guy in my LS stated, they're homogenizing mnk, sam, and nin. Now Sam has blinks AND counter. And they have a better Focus than Focus.

[Celeal]

If Hasso gives 10% haste, level 75 haste gear setup for SAM/DRG must be very evil ... hehehe ( 'w')

[eva00r]

No, you get -10% delay and +10 acc at all level including sam as a sub. NIN/SAM 75 gets +10 acc and -10% delay with Earth Staff.

[Lmnop]

so it'd seem... rock on.

[VZX]

If Hasso gives 10% haste, level 75 haste gear setup for SAM/DRG must be very evil ... hehehe ( 'w')
note that It's still unconfirmed whether Hasso delay reduction is linear with haste (e.g. if you have 10% haste from gear, hasso will bump your haste number to 20%)

[tdh]

Is this a straight STR bonus, or is there an Atk bonus added into it as well? I thought I had read that it was Atk as well, and would make up for the lack of Berserk.

BAH! Now that I did the research, it's STR, Acc, and Haste.

PlayOnline Release Info - SAM (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/887/detail.html)

I'm guessing this isn't going to make the push to SAM/THF much earlier than Lv.60. Double Attack ANDZanshin by Lv.50. More STR for all WS since ever Great Katana WS has a STR Modifier of some kind. I still think the place to be will be Lv.60+ once you have Yukikaze or Gekko. SA, Hasso, and a nice 1 hit WS will ramp up damage quite nicely for closing damage.

[Nodachi]

Just straight attack. At level 75 as SAM you get 5 Attack from it, but that's just from the 10 STR you gain from the JA. STR, ACC and Attack speed is all it is. Not like that's nothing, but that's all it is.

[Karinya]

I think it'll make /WAR viable at anything other than disband-and-meditate HNMs, unless your tank is *really* terrible at hate holding.

People have been overvaluing WS damage at the expense of normal hit damage for a long time, and will probably continue to do so, but at some point someone's going to notice that the SAM/WAR's party is killing faster even when Berserk *isn't* up (Double Attack, Attack Bonus, more STR, even Warcry if you dare to use it).

I've parsed several parties where the DD with the lowest WS damage had the highest overall damage. (Usually, but not always, a monk.) A big hit once a minute isn't an adequate trade for being weaker the other 58 seconds.

[Asurasan]

As for what subs it is 'better' for it honestly helps a decent ammount with both. Although I didn't notice a large jump in my /war normal swings after the patch besides the slight attack speed increase. It did jump up my Weapon Skill damage noticably though due to the fact that I'm usually geared up for accuracy with /war.

With theif sub the +10 str is particularly noticable on sneak attack WS damage, not as much so on normal swings.

Not to thread Hijack or anything, but I was wondering what your 'usual' WS damage is with the respective subs now that Hasso is in the game?

Right with /war:

480 low, 700 high and with double attack going off I usually hit 900ish.

With /thf:

900 low and 1200 high.

All of that is at 75 using a Hagun with 100 and swapping out +str gear on thf sub.

My past 3 parties I've yet to parse myself so I can't really give a comparison to how much of a difference it is making, although even if it is only a marginal difference I'm still plenty happy with it.

[yuna544]

With /WAR in Caeadarva Mire I was hitting very well, PT didn't have a BRD or COR either.

Lows 850
Highs 1100
Double attacks highs 1645 (all with level 3 overwhelm might I add)

I think WAR got the pimp @@ this update owns

[Lmnop]

I'd like to note that this 10% melee-haste technically increases Tp gain. More swings at the same high tp rate = extra tp, much like Double Attack. And of course, +10 Acc always helps tp.

What this means is that sam/thf has some small compensation for double attack between Hasso and Zanshin.

But... that still doesn't change that double attack, zanshin, AND hasso creates even higher tp levels.

[Karinya]

True, post-update SAMs now gain even more TP than before. But that doesn't shift the balance between /WAR and /THF - faster swings mean more double attacks too, and more double attacks means more zanshin attacks (since zanshin can fire on either swing of a DA or - very rarely - both swings). And of course double attacks with more acc mean more double hits.

SAM/THF will probably not have any trouble keeping up with anyone else in TP - except SAM/WAR or maybe SAM/RNG.

[VZX]

and more double attacks means more zanshin attacks (since zanshin can fire on either swing of a DA or - very rarely - both swings). And of course double attacks with more acc mean more double hits.
wait... what?
I thought zanshin only activated as second chance if you miss the first attack
I don't see any relation between zanshin activation with double attack activation

[Lmnop]

she means if you're double attacking, that's technically more chances to miss, and thus, more chances for Zanshin to activate. If you were awfully unlucky and rediculously lucky at the same time, you'd double attack, miss both swings, but have Zanshin trigger on both. You'd end up looking like this: missed swing, zanshin swing, missed double attack swing, 2nd zanshin swing.

While I'm at it:
The job trait Zanshin will now be acquired at level 20, and the hit rate for the extra attack has been increased.

Update notes. (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/update/ff11us/20061017UJ0a71/detail.html)

Does "hit rate increased" mean the activation rate of Zanshin, or that the Zanshin swing has an accuracy boost over normal melee swings? o.o;;

[Taskmage]

Probably the latter based on that wording, but it's always possible the patch notes were poorly translated.

[Asurasan]

Lows 850
Highs 1100
Double attacks highs 1645 (all with level 3 overwhelm might I add)



Man, that makes overwhelm seem even more interesting.

[Lmnop]

Probably the latter based on that wording, but it's always possible the patch notes were poorly translated.

I've come to never trust their wording. Would be nice if Bside would tell us what the Jp update notes say (or anyone else who happens to read the Japanese site).

[VZX]

she means if you're double attacking, that's technically more chances to miss, and thus, more chances for Zanshin to activate. If you were awfully unlucky and rediculously lucky at the same time, you'd double attack, miss both swings, but have Zanshin trigger on both. You'd end up looking like this: missed swing, zanshin swing, missed double attack swing, 2nd zanshin swing.
While I'm at it:
Update notes. (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/update/ff11us/20061017UJ0a71/detail.html)
Does "hit rate increased" mean the activation rate of Zanshin, or that the Zanshin swing has an accuracy boost over normal melee swings? o.o;;
CMIIW
but AFAIK, Zanshin doesn't proc on Double attack

[Taskmage]

CMIIW?

[eticket109]

CMIIW?

Crocodiles make intriguing ideas worrisome.

[Asurasan]

Haha, thats funny. I assume it is "Correct me if I'm wrong"
The internet is a place of win, that is for sure ^^
(No offense, I just find such abbreveations to be terribly ammusing)

[Taskmage]

Ah, ok. I'd never seen that one before. Rare to find a person on the internet who will acknowledge the possibility they're wrong in the first place. ;)

[Nodachi]

Crocodiles make intriguing ideas worrisome.
Man, I had to "Thank" you for that laugh. Too clever lol.

Anyway. Hasso is amazing. Just don't get caught using it when you shouldn't, especially on some HNM. I see a lot of SAMs dying as of late and it's no mystery as to why lol.

Enjoy the new toys, just be sure to know how to balance Seigan in or you'll be a bad SAM like me :/ I'm so greedy for damage now that I just leave Hasso and Berserk on as much as I can ; - ;

[Intensity]

On a side note concerning Seigan, Iwas semi-forced into seeing how badass it really is last night. Was in a party fight Magmatic Erucas in Zhayolm and our PLD kept getting one-shotted by Incinerate. There were several occasions where I had to main tank 3/4 of a mob after the PLD died. I'd put up Seigan, use Third Eye and next thing you know I see "Darkcyde anticipates etc." like 3 times in a row. Not only that, but after the 3 anticipates, I saw 2 "Darkcyde counters etc.". Then I get hit 1-2 times and Third Eye recast is rdy again. Rinse/repeat, dead mob. I'd end the fights at 1/4 health or so but successfully tanking a mob @ this level for that long was never even semi-feasible in the past.

[Asurasan]

I tanked in Caedera Mire a few days ago in a merit pt. Had to ditch all my -evasion gear but in the end, it worked out pretty well.

(Not overly impressive considering the types of mobs and the duration of the fights, but it was still something neat enough to me.)

[Intensity]

Oh yeah, speaking of evasion that reminds me that I was wearing something like -20 or more at the time. I never bothered to take all mine off.

EDIT: Ding-a-ling

[Mouser]

I got to use DRG/SAM for the first time in Dynamis yesterday, and noticed something odd.

I had been Diagaed and when I refreshed Hasso I saw:

"Mouser's Dia effect has disappeared!" (or something like that, it definitely wasn't the usual wear off message and was immediately after I Hassoed).

I checked the scroll back and I didn't see any indication that I'd been Erased and I cans seen what spells are being cast on me with the filters I have set. Has anyone noticed this, or did I just miss that I had been Erased somehow? I didn't get a chance to test it again, but will next time I can and report back.