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Mikalian
10-06-2006, 02:13 PM
Issue: There is a perceived deficiency in the capabilities of PLD/WAR as a tank when compared to NIN/WAR tanks. Not only do PLD/WAR tanks take damage they also lack significantly in the ability to deal damage to monster opponents, where NIN/WAR tanks can avoid nearly all damage through the use of shadows, while at the same time wearing equipment that allows them to become potent damage dealers.

Proposal: Increase damage dealing capabilities through use of the shield. This change would allow PLD to become more competitive with NIN tanks by balancing the damage capabilities of the two primary tank classes while still maintaining distinct stylistic differences.

Suggestion: Create a line of PLD only spells similar in effect to RDM Enspells except PLD spells would imbue their shield with elemental properties which would deal damage to opponents when the shield blocks. The damage from these spells would be calculated based on a combination of damage blocked by the shield, Enhancing Magic skill vs. Enhancing Magic level cap, and Shield skill vs. Shield skill level cap. Damage returned to opponents would be unresisted unless the opponent has an innate resistance to the elemental effect of the given spell. Considering that currently PLDs only Enhancing spells are not affected by Enhancing Magic skill this would encourage PLD players to take the time to increase their skill.

Spell Progression:

PLD40 Earth Shield
PLD45 Ice Shield
PLD50 Water Shield
PLD55 Fire Shield
PLD60 Wind Shield
PLD65 Thunder Shield
PLD70 Light Shield
PLD75 Dark Shield

Spell damage calculations:

DR = Damage Reflected
DB = Damage blocked
CES= Current Enhancing Magic Skill
ESC= Enhancing Magic level cap
CSS= Current Shield Skill
SSC= Shield skill level cap

(DB*.80){[(CES/ESC)/2]+[(CSS/SSC)/2]} = DR

Example: Level: PLD68/WAR34
DB = 100
ESC= 197
CES= 110
SSC= 241
CSS= 239

(100*.80){[(110/197)/2]+[(239/241)/2]} = 62
(100*.80){[.56/2]+[.99/2]} = 62
(100*.80){.28+.49} = 62
(100*.80)*.77 = 62
80 * .77 = 62
(Please keep in mind that my use of .80 as a base for damage blocked/reflected represents what I think would be a realistic maximum)

MP cost: 30
Duration: 2 minutes
Recast: 1 minute

How to obtain the Scrolls: I have several options I'm thinking of right now so I'm going to lay them out and let you guys help me decide what to submit along with the proposal.

Option #1: Rare drop from Elementals of the appropriate type roughly 5 levels higher than the level of the spell to be gained.

Option #2: Rare drop from PLD type monsters roughly 5-10 levels above the level of the spell to be gained.

Option #3: Guaranteed drop from wandering NM elementals of the appropriate type.

Option #4: Rare reward from BCNM's of appropriate levels unless there is a PLD in the party doing the BCNM then it would be a common (but not guaranteed) reward.

Option #5: Quested item with the quest only being started and completed by a PLD of the appropriate level (or higher) with no NM fight.

Option #6: Quested item with a fight versus a forced spawn NM Elemental of appropriate type and strength to require an entire party of characters of the level of the spell to be gained to defeat.

Option #7: Any combination of some or all of the above options.

My personal favorite is a combination of #5 and #6 with a story about how during the Crystal War a great Tarutaru Black Mage watched Paladins fall by the hundreds defending their weaker counterparts from the wrath of the beastmen and monsters without being able to significantly damage the beastmen and the monsters in turn. After the war the great Black Mage went into seclusion and began researching ways to correct this problem, but unfortunately he was unable to complete this work before he died. However, his apprentice has taken up his work and needs the players help to complete it. The player character must go to the far ends of Vana’diel and return with certain items, some obtained from fighting monsters either forced spawn or roaming, and others obtained through more conventional means (Auction House, crafted, gardened, NPC bought etc.). Upon completion of the quest the player character would be given the appropriate scroll and told to come back later as the apprentice must “… continue their research if they are ever going to figure outaru all these scribble-wibbles”. Save the spell “Dark Shield” and the quest for it for level 75 Paladins and make the requirements for completion extremely difficult. After all Paladins are warriors and defenders of Light so the ability to use the powers of their enemies against them must be restricted to only those of the purest faith and truest devotion to avoid corruption. Also after completing all eight quests the player would receive a new title such as “Bearer of the Eight Fold Shield” or some such.

Conclusions: As you can see this idea would not overpower PLD/WAR but would allow them to compete with NIN/WAR in damage dealing capabilities while maintaining their unique tanking style. Also these changes would be in line with recent changes Square Enix has implemented to the PLD job (Shield Mastery building TP) to allow PLD to deal more damage.

Murphie
10-06-2006, 02:25 PM
A very interesting thread, and welcome to FFXIOnline and all...but can people stop with the HTML in the thread titles? It makes everything so difficult to read. :(

DakAttack
10-06-2006, 02:34 PM
I think that's a problem with the forum rather than the poster?

Anyways, this is still the "Ask Square-Enix Questions" forum, not a suggestion forum. They'd probably read it anyways, but instead of considering it they'd chuckle to themselves then fight each other with samurai swords and ninja magic.

Murphie
10-06-2006, 02:48 PM
It's a little bit of both, actually. (re: The HTML)

Mikalian
10-06-2006, 02:51 PM
...but can people stop with the HTML in the thread titles?

I didn't intend the title to look like that it was supposed to look like this...

Proposal for "Paladin Only" spells

I'm still kind of new to posting on forums so I didn't realize that quotation marks would look that way when I submitted the post.

Murphie
10-06-2006, 02:52 PM
I think you can still edit the title if you like. I could be wrong.

Theyaden
10-06-2006, 02:58 PM
This one is an interesting idea. I especially like the back story explaining why it was developed and the questing idea in order to gain the spells.
Ninja wil still have an edge since they take virtually no damage when they are good, but since the bad ones are disasteriously bad the added damage should be enough to level the playing field without taking any abilities from the ninja since tank and damage dealer in one package is a huge draw for them.

/wave to op. Another Minot.ian in the forums thought I was the only one ^..^

Murphie
10-06-2006, 02:59 PM
I lived in Minot when I was five! Then my parents got bored and moved back to Ohio. :(

And just to clarlfy on the OP, I do think it's an interesting idea. So you don't think I'm just bitching about the title. ^^;

Mikalian
10-06-2006, 03:03 PM
So you don't think I'm just bitching about the title. ^^;

/chuckle I realised that I'm just trying to clarify my noobness as related to forums.

LilithAngel
10-06-2006, 07:54 PM
I could see this being readily accepted by the vast majority of the community, Ninjas included, from the fact that it makes Paladin more desireable, while not taking away from Ninja (it, in fact, nearly makes them one in the same, in regards to damage cycling). Besides, that's a very interesting story (many things and events that have thier origins in the Crystal War are only now coming to light, it seems).

I personally prefer Paladin tanks as a Dragoon. They tend to hold hate a little bit better than Ninjas when I'm around. ;)

Radel-King_of_Pirates
10-07-2006, 11:47 PM
I have to say very nice ideal able to do like a spike spell only when the monster actualy hits the shield? but I would hope that it would last little longer then an En spell because chances of the monster hitting the shield is pretty slim.

The story I have to say nice touch, but wouldn't an rdm doing the story instead of the blm since it would be similar to the en spells?

Mikalian
10-08-2006, 04:03 AM
wouldn't an rdm doing the story instead of the blm since it would be similar to the en spells?

I did think about that but two things stopped me...

1) RDMs in my experience don't require the PLD to use the JA "Cover" all that often to protect them compared to BLMs

2) Considering the spells discussed would give elemental type magic to a class that has never had any use for it the slightly higher INTelligence of a BLM would be more helpfull in figureing out how to do it.

Nekomieu
10-08-2006, 05:46 AM
Personally, I think that you nailed it when you said "Percieved." The only reason Ninja is considered better is because of the shadows, and how they don't take 90% of the damage dealt to them. However, that last 10% has a tendencay to leave them taking a dirt nap.

Also, Ninjas can't hold hate for, well... any kinda of metaphorical insertian you can think of. Paladins taking damage is made up with the fact that they can heal. You can have a BLM chain casting ancient magic, and their favorite Tier III spells and the mob is still chewing on the paladin's shield (if their a good paladin, that is...)

I do, however, think that it's an interesting idea, just not as needed as others think. You can also increase the damage output of a paladin by adding some accuracy gear, my friend does it and can outdamage some lerrer geared meele classes, it's all about stat balance.

Radel-King_of_Pirates
10-08-2006, 09:55 AM
I did think about that but two things stopped me...

1) RDMs in my experience don't require the PLD to use the JA "Cover" all that often to protect them compared to BLMs

2) Considering the spells discussed would give elemental type magic to a class that has never had any use for it the slightly higher INTelligence of a BLM would be more helpfull in figureing out how to do it.

Bummer got me there lol


Personally, I think that you nailed it when you said "Percieved." The only reason Ninja is considered better is because of the shadows, and how they don't take 90% of the damage dealt to them. However, that last 10% has a tendencay to leave them taking a dirt nap.

Also, Ninjas can't hold hate for, well... any kinda of metaphorical insertian you can think of. Paladins taking damage is made up with the fact that they can heal. You can have a BLM chain casting ancient magic, and their favorite Tier III spells and the mob is still chewing on the paladin's shield (if their a good paladin, that is...)

I do, however, think that it's an interesting idea, just not as needed as others think. You can also increase the damage output of a paladin by adding some accuracy gear, my friend does it and can outdamage some lerrer geared meele classes, it's all about stat balance.

In my mind Nin is not even clasified as a tank, I truely rather have my Drk tank since I can keep better hate then the Nin on most occasion, I can say there is only one nin that kept hate from me without a thf in the pt. In the beginning Nin was supposed to be a support/DD/Debuffer/Puller but since players saw shadows as an escape from damage been tagged as a tank. My cousin (which is a Whm) even told me that shee likes nin tank because they don't suck up all her MP curing them. As I play as my Pld I am usally out of my MP 3/4 or down to the last bit (without rdm in pt) when the monster falls, the Whm usally has 1/2 to 1/3 left of mp. So is that really sucking mp? I am sorry I am draggin this post in fight, I just never got a clear answer on it.