Taru DRK hate?

[Mini Neruto]

http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/final_fantasy_xi_darkknight.txt

What is the best race for DRK?
- the guide says to pick mithra, I asked my linkshell and they said no way.
Pick Elvann or Galka for most damage and health, pick hume and mithra for ok
damage and decent black magic, and tarus for Great black magic, accuracy and
pure shock factor.I am personally a hume because it is more accurate than
Elvann and Galka. I really suggest you don't pick Taru LOL


^ I thought taru DRK's could be really skilled at dark knight? Just an ignorant person?

And btw, im a new dark night ^^ hurray!

[Mhurron]

Any race can be any job. Race stat differences may affect some gear choices you make and your play style but they do not make some jobs impossible to play.

[Thrasher]

Plus is shock factor exactly a bad thing?:evil:
As a tarutaru just take the time to learn the more technical side of playing dark knight and you will be fine. Proper use of absorb spells and a little equipment swapping and you will be a great Dark Knight.

[Murasame]

If Humes have any more dex than Galka, its about +3 more and thats only after like level 60.

[tdh]

There's no way to stress that any race can do any job, and that skill and gear greatly level the playing field. Either way we still see a lot of posts of "what's the best race for <job>?" I think a number of us would like to get our hands around the neck of the person that wrote those guides saying which race made the best <job>.

There are a few Taru DRKs I've partied with on my server who have seriously impressed me. I've seen some Taru WARs make Elvaan WARs look silly, I've seen Taru DRK with so much Acc and Atk that a PLD working with a THF couldn't keep hate off the little guy.

Pick the race you like. Whether it's astetics, or MP, or HP, or STR, and then play the job that delivers the most fun.

[Omni]

Burn that brady guide you have in your hands. It does nothing but spew crap.

Other than listing spell levels/abilties and monster weaknesses, all the commentary in that guide is crap.

[Jei]

/shrug
it's saying Taru drk is like circus. you jump around trying to entertain the mob.
game faqs is a good place for resource. but not good for ff11 obviously.

[Ziero]

Well statistaclly speaking Elvaan and Galka are the 'best' jobs for Drk with their High HP and Str. As much as people try to deny it, certain jobs are 'best' performed by certain races. Now as for how large a margin they are the 'best' however is still something that's highly up for debate.

On that note, a Taru can be a great Drk. Just make sure you have all your gear, spells, food and such all up to date and lvl. Know what you should be focusing stat wise for every action you take and do not fear gear swaps. You can *easily* outpeform most other Drks you meet as long as you know what you're doing.

[Aeni]

Burn that brady guide you have in your hands. It does nothing but spew crap.

I think that link is Gamefaq, which is even worse. Those guys there troll so much crap, makes the whole human race seem clean in comparison.

Tarutaru make good DRKs. They, however, need to compensate their physical damage with some spell casting. They are the race with a lot of mana to burn, however, so this shouldn't be an issue.

With that said, let me tell you, a Taru DRK can tank as well as any other race when a situation is called for. For example, if in a party, the tank loses hate and the monster starts wailing on your healer like no tomorrow, a Taru DRK will NOT get one-shot with a normal hit or even a normal critical, like so many players will tell you or make jokes about. I've partied with Taru DRKs before and believe me, they can more than hold their own if they have to.

In the end, with Humes, it's all about versatility. Because they're so well balanced, they can do many things. However, they don't excel in any one area or job class. Humes are great for playing all the jobs and is recommended for that reason (Other than that's what majoirty of players roll when they first fire up FFXI) I'd say, if there were any race differences, it would lead to only a difference in the style of play, but the difference is not that great (Unless we're talking specific instances, for example, a Galka and Absorb spells and a Taru and Souleater)

[Icemage]

At end-game Galka DRK outperforms everyone when you're looking at high burst damage.

Galka DRK75 using Kraken Club + Souleater + Blood Weapon will do way more damage than a Tarutaru DRK with similar gear and setup, since Souleater's bonus damage is linked directly to current HP (which stays full due to Blood Weapon).

Aside from this single aspect, there's very little difference between the various races for most melee jobs, DRK included. A few points of damage isn't going to make or break you.

For the majority of the XP from 1-75, there's effectively zero difference between different races of DRK, and it's also negligible difference in most other conditions too (and the difference above only matters in a fistful of fights, such as Dynamis Lord, where you need something dead in a hurry and have a Paladin around to Invincible and keep you from getting swatted like a mosquito after using Souleater).


Icemage

[Aeni]

I do agree with Icemage with regards to Galka and burst damage (Although I've outparsed Galka DRKs 3 levels higher before - which goes to show it's not who you are, but how you play) but I disagree that there's zero difference between races. An extreme example I can give is one when I was on Middie a longtime ago and a Galkan DRK named Strength was trying to rescue a few members of PhoenixDown in Davoi when some RNG asshat trained/MPK on them with nearly 20 high level orcs in the central areas + a super gigantic ass load of train of everything else (Those that can still con T or so to my 72 DRK)

His lack of MP didn't allow him to whore stun + drain as I would've in that situation, since one good stun negates as much as 500+ dmg from TP moves (Like one the stupid dragoon has) Sure, he had ass loads of HP, but blowing it with souleater isn't necessarily any better :P

[Mini Neruto]

I think that link is Gamefaq, which is even worse. Those guys there troll so much crap, makes the whole human race seem clean in comparison.
Tarutaru make good DRKs. They, however, need to compensate their physical damage with some spell casting. They are the race with a lot of mana to burn, however, so this shouldn't be an issue.
With that said, let me tell you, a Taru DRK can tank as well as any other race when a situation is called for. For example, if in a party, the tank loses hate and the monster starts wailing on your healer like no tomorrow, a Taru DRK will NOT get one-shot with a normal hit or even a normal critical, like so many players will tell you or make jokes about. I've partied with Taru DRKs before and believe me, they can more than hold their own if they have to.
In the end, with Humes, it's all about versatility. Because they're so well balanced, they can do many things. However, they don't excel in any one area or job class. Humes are great for playing all the jobs and is recommended for that reason (Other than that's what majoirty of players roll when they first fire up FFXI) I'd say, if there were any race differences, it would lead to only a difference in the style of play, but the difference is not that great (Unless we're talking specific instances, for example, a Galka and Absorb spells and a Taru and Souleater)


Ya it was gamefaq. guess i wont look there anymore O_O. Ya i see all the remarks about galkas and a new friend of mine (taru drk 75!) said he can match dmg on galka with mp rather than attack if not exceed it. Im lvl 5 and freakin loving it so far. First job i can solo {Tough.} in west ronafaure (sp?). 100 tp + slice + 2 stones + a crit...thats just pure fun.

[Icemage]

... I disagree that there's zero difference between races. An extreme example I can give is one when I was on Middie a longtime ago and a Galkan DRK named Strength was trying to rescue a few members of PhoenixDown in Davoi when some RNG asshat trained/MPK on them with nearly 20 high level orcs in the central areas + a super gigantic ass load of train of everything else (Those that can still con T or so to my 72 DRK)
His lack of MP didn't allow him to whore stun + drain as I would've in that situation, since one good stun negates as much as 500+ dmg from TP moves (Like one the stupid dragoon has) Sure, he had ass loads of HP, but blowing it with souleater isn't necessarily any better :P

I remember Strength well; he was a very cool guy.

With that many Orcs, though, the "effectively zero" clause I was talking about definitely applies. If you try to take that many on as DRK/anythingexceptBLM expect to die a messy death. :P

---

For all intents and purposes, a Dark Knight is a Dark Knight regardless of race. Damage is roughly on par regardless of race (there's some differences in accuracy and damage, but not that much on regular hits, and only somewhat noticeable on WS), and when you look at it from a group perspective you're not going to see that your group suddenly sucks because you have a Tarutaru DRK instead of a Galka DRK or whatever.

It's not that there aren't differences - it's just that you can function perfectly well despite the minor differences (except for the single case I mentioned above).


Icemage

[Nataka]

Icemage, does that apply to most other melee classes or just dark knight in particular?

[Icemage]

Icemage, does that apply to most other melee classes or just dark knight in particular?
When you boil it down to group effectiveness, all races can play most other melee jobs at about the same level of effectiveness (Samurai, Thief, Warrior, Beastmaster, Ranger).

Dark Knight is a standout exception because it has a job ability that triggers specifically off of a stat that varies greatly between races (Souleater triggers using 10% of your current HP).

Dragoon is notable for races when you're using a mage subjob also, since Healing Breath also triggers on current HP%, and higher HP races like Galka therefore can operate much more safely when playing DRG/mage. When not subbing a mage job, Dragoon fits the melee mold pretty much exactly - race doesn't matter.

Monk deserves a special mention here because hand-to-hand damage is linked much more closely to Strength than other attack types, so high-STR races like Elvaan enjoy a measurable advantage in physical attack power when used as monks (though other races can make up some of the shortfall with gear, etc.)

Otherwise the difference isn't really anything to write home about. A fistful of stat points in STR and DEX is really all that separates melees otherwise, and those stat points don't really determine your overall effectiveness. Survivability is a minor difference - good melees generally ride the hate line and take minimal damage anyway.

EDIT: Again, I'll stress that I'm not saying there aren't differences even in melee jobs that don't stress specific stats. A well-equipped Elvaan melee will generally hit harder than an identically equipped Tarutaru melee. But differences in non-HP/MP stats don't make a huge impact on your effectiveness.


Icemage

[tdh]

Ya it was gamefaq. guess i wont look there anymore O_O. Ya i see all the remarks about galkas and a new friend of mine (taru drk 75!) said he can match dmg on galka with mp rather than attack if not exceed it. Im lvl 5 and freakin loving it so far. First job i can solo {Tough.} in west ronafaure (sp?). 100 tp + slice + 2 stones + a crit...thats just pure fun.I found that DRK was one of the fastest jobs I got to Lv.10. I could chain EM and T's to a Chain #3 or 4 just flying through EXP with no problems at all. (The other job I found that got to Lv.10 insanely fast was DRG. Every time I missed a hit, it seemed my Wyvern landed a hit.) Then of course once you get Drain, it helps solo even more.

Same reason why I love farming as a DRK/THF. I never have to rest at all. I usually farm in a zone that has a mob somewhere that has MP for me to Aspir, Drain anything that actually hits me, and then Guillotine for 800~1200dmg does the rest! ^^

[Lambeaus]

I'm a tarutaru specializing in BLM. However I unlocked DRK and played with it for fun. He is up to level 23, and is surprisingly doing very well in parties!

[Mini Neruto]

Awsome! Yes leveling is EXTREMELY fast from lvls 1-10. Chaining mobs, throwing nukes, down time only about every 15 monsters...its realy nice.

[Aeni]

Awsome! Yes leveling is EXTREMELY fast from lvls 1-10. Chaining mobs, throwing nukes, down time only about every 15 monsters...its realy nice.

Tarutaru DRK from 1-10 gets an added advantage because of their beefy mp. When subbing WHM for this purpose (soloing) expect ZERO down time. Your defense is your offense and you got plenty (Don't forget XBow!)

[Mini Neruto]

Tarutaru DRK from 1-10 gets an added advantage because of their beefy mp. When subbing WHM for this purpose (soloing) expect ZERO down time. Your defense is your offense and you got plenty (Don't forget XBow!)

Xbow? something im not using?

[tdh]

Good call Aeni!

That's one thing I really regret, I wish I had a means to keep my Marksmanship skill cap'd. It's a horrible rating (Rated E for DRKs) but it can be very helpful for pulling and later soloing. If you can land a Xbow bolt for 20dmg on the pull, or land one later for TP, it will help you out more than you would think. Later when you gain access to the status bolts, you will love that Skill.

Bloody Bolts (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/3217) - I've seen 1dmg and then 70HP Drained. Very nice
Sleep Bolts (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/3211) - These can be used to solo mobs
Acid Bolts (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/3206) - I love a puller that can land these!
Holy Bolts (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/3222) - Lands for pretty decent damage, and than the Light damage usually does pretty decent damage on top of it as well.

So start early, and do what you can to keep your skill up, you will be happy you did.

[Aeni]

It's a horrible rating (Rated E for DRKs) but it can be very helpful for pulling and later soloing.

At low levels, the rating doesn't mean anything other than 3-5% additional whiffing. XBow has 2 unique properties as a range attack weapon in the hands of a DRK:

-Can use the same ammo RNGs use (Compare this to THF, who can't use all the bolts)
-Has low delay between shots
-Can be spammed point blank with a small loss of accuracy and power (Versus a Bow or Gun - I think XBow's deadzone is shorter, but conversely so is the range)

So the whiffing is more than made up with the advantage of spamming. Going after things like Bees, Birds and Pugils helps to keep the exp flow fast.

BTW Tdh, thanks for the listing on the bolts. This will definitely show all new DRKs just what they can bring to their party if they're able to maintain their range skill and are actively using their abilities to their fullest.

[Raydeus]

That's one thing I really regret, I wish I had a means to keep my Marksmanship skill cap'd. It's a horrible rating (Rated E for DRKs) but it can be very helpful for pulling and later soloing.

Maybe it's just me, but up to lvl 37 even with E rating skill you can land bolts easily on XP mobs (using meat most of the time since I didn't have acc troubles). I soloed most of the way to 37 because it's way too easy to solo as a DRK, but I didn't have any troubles landing bolts on xp mobs while I was in xp parties. :thumbsup:

Maybe up to lvl 50 (126 E rating, 153 A rating) with sushi and some r. acc gear you could still land bolts on xp mobs, but later on they start getting those scary evasion boosts, so I dunno how high can you go with Marksmanship as a DRK.


(I just leveled DRK as a sub, although I plan to get it all the way to 75 later on :thumbsup: )

[Nataka]

Hmm, but if souleater..eats 10% of your HP every tick, doesnt that mean it consumes similiar HP to the galka? Like if a galka has 100 health and uses it, it'd absorb 10 hp each hit, but with a taru that perhaps has 70 HP it'd steal 7 health each time, each resulting in 10 ticks?

Or do I misunderstand?

[tdh]

Maybe it's just me, but up to lvl 37 even with E rating skill you can land bolts easily on XP mobs (using meat most of the time since I didn't have acc troubles). I soloed most of the way to 37 because it's way too easy to solo as a DRK, but I didn't have any troubles landing bolts on xp mobs while I was in xp parties. :thumbsup:

Maybe up to lvl 50 (126 E rating, 153 A rating) with sushi and some r. acc gear you could still land bolts on xp mobs, but later on they start getting those scary evasion boosts, so I dunno how high can you go with Marksmanship as a DRK.
(I just leveled DRK as a sub, although I plan to get it all the way to 75 later on :thumbsup: )This is true, however the problem is that Odude didn't really start working on Marksmanship until he was Lv.42. /cry I think my Marksmanship skill is currently Lv.101 at Lv.61. :angry: So it's been useless for me for quite a while, and I'm almost to the Bomb Core (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/3195) days as it is.

Let's not forget that I already carry two different types of foods (Acc & Atk food), multiple weapons (Great Sword & Scythe - maybe Great Axe), Acc/TP gear, and then STR build for WS. Sometimes I don't have room for RngAcc gear to help me land those bolts. (I used to bring RngAcc gear for SAM and THF, and just said forget that! Too much stuff to lug around all the time.) But one of those days I'll have a LS mate crank out some Sleep Bolts for me, and I'll just go and skill up on some Worms some place. Probably once I hit Lv.70. Borrow a friend's Peacock Charm, some RngAcc+10 rings, O. Hat, and a decent Xbow and cap it out.

[Thrasher]

Yes no matter how much Hp you have its always takes 10% of your current hp per hit, and 12% with soul eater enhancing gear.

[Icemage]

Hmm, but if souleater..eats 10% of your HP every tick, doesnt that mean it consumes similiar HP to the galka? Like if a galka has 100 health and uses it, it'd absorb 10 hp each hit, but with a taru that perhaps has 70 HP it'd steal 7 health each time, each resulting in 10 ticks?
Or do I misunderstand?

Souleater gives you 10% of your current HP in damage and in exchange adds that same amount to the damage you inflict (ignoring defense) to any hit you land while under its effects.

Blood Weapon lets you steal back as much damage as you deal.

Kraken Club "occasionally attacks 2-8 times".

Combine the three and you're hitting many, many times in 30 seconds for 10% of your max HP in bonus damage on every hit. If you trigger, say, 20 hits during that period, and a Galka has 1400HP while a Tarutaru has 1000HP, that's 40 points more damage per hit, or a 800 damage difference at the end (more if you have gear that boosts it to 12%)


Icemage

[Nataka]

Ooh, I see. Okay, thanks :)

This whole job choosing thing would be a lot easier if I was a hume, lol. <<

[Mini Neruto]

/panic

Ill get a bow right away! Didnt even know bout the bolt thing. Sounds like an awsome addition to dmg. Thanks

[Mini Neruto]

One more question, what about the great sword/sythe thing? Do i switch weapon every battle? >< what should i do at lower levels (btw lvl 8 now)

[Omni]

If you can, try capping your weapons, then switch to another weapon and cap it. Later on you wont have time to cap weapons in XP pts since usually they might want you to use a particular weapon.

Also a word of advice, if you are more than 6-10 skill levels behind cap, please do not cap it during a xp pt. It affects your party when you miss a whole bunch. Take time out to cap it in a skill up pt or mission or some other non xp pt.

good luck!

[Mini Neruto]

My friend told me yesterday him and a hume drk were seeking, almost identical gear (my friends being a little better, a taru). And the hume got 2 invites from parties...that dissapoints me. :cry:

[Omni]

I highly doubt people look at race when they are searching. I sure dont. There's many reason why he got the inv. I doubt race is one of them.

The areas where you encounter stupidity like that are usually lvs 10-60. Especially, for some reason 30-55s. I just always encounter the most enormous idiots around that level range.

Dont worry, if you want to play a taru drk, do it.

[Mini Neruto]

I highly doubt people look at race when they are searching. I sure dont. There's many reason why he got the inv. I doubt race is one of them.

The areas where you encounter stupidity like that are usually lvs 10-60. Especially, for some reason 30-55s. I just always encounter the most enormous idiots around that level range.

Dont worry, if you want to play a taru drk, do it.

Heh dont worry, im definetly already playing it. And loving it may i add? Ranged skill is meh but ill have to lvl it someday >.>;

[Aeni]

My friend told me yesterday him and a hume drk were seeking, almost identical gear (my friends being a little better, a taru). And the hume got 2 invites from parties...that dissapoints me. :cry:

I don't look at race. I look and stare at a name that sounds eerily familiar and reeks of "Blisted Player of the Year."

Those I don't even bother telling the time of day to.

[tdh]

My friend told me yesterday him and a hume drk were seeking, almost identical gear (my friends being a little better, a taru). And the hume got 2 invites from parties...that dissapoints me. :cry:There are other things to keep in mind. 1 DRK may have had /seacom that explained any number of things. That they were close to leveling, or had a long ways to go. Mentioning that they had any number of weapons available to use. A key piece of equipment. Merits and Rank also can sway somebody into picking one character over another.

Say the leader was building a Lv.50~52 party, one DRK's Lv.52 with 8k EXP tnl, and one only has 1.3k EXP tnl. They would be more likely to grab the one with more EXP needed to level to preserve the level range.

I know if I'm building a party and I run across two people with the same job, and their /seacoms are pretty close to each other, I check if anybody I know has partied with them and vouch for their skills, and then I check out Rank. Rank 7~10 vs. a Rank 4 or 5. I've helped out friend's with mules to get them to Rank 5, but you can't always take a free ride to Rank 6 or higher.

It still sucks though! I've been in parties where people have open questioned the leader why they invited me, an Elvaan RDM. After a few minutes, and a few well managed crises, they sing my praise. Sometimes you just have to grin and bear it.

[Aeni]

An example:

@3,600 > L.46 HP {insert homepoint}
CoP/TAU/RoZ {Yes, please}
SJ WAR THF {Great Sword}{Scythe} OK

(1) First line explains your TNL and where your HP is if you're not anywhere near town (But have a warp scroll or cudgel so people don't have to twiddle their thumbs waiting for you to haul Taru butt to get to them)

(2) Second explains what you have and don't have installed. It's unfortunate, but because there's so many different expansions that 50% of all players don't own all 100% of expansions, this can become difficult. Showing a leader what you have can save a ton of headache later on when the party is trying to figure out where to go to.

(3) Subjobs you have and weapons you're skilled in. For a DRK, these are the most important things and for any un-retarded party leader, a skillchain is always important than knowing how much l33t gear you're toting.

[Hell-bottom]

even if a taru DRK can play well he will not be as good as other races . bottom line is that Tarus are the worst melee race , no doubt .
taru DRK...give me a break... what's next ? taru MNK ? lol -_-;; just heal me midget

[Icemage]

even if a taru DRK can play well he will not be as good as other races . bottom line is that Tarus are the worst melee race , no doubt .
taru DRK...give me a break... what's next ? taru MNK ? lol -_-;; just heal me midget

That attitude must win you SO many friends.

"Oops, sorry, I thought that OTHER guy was in red HP. Guess you'll just have to take a Raise I. I don't have MP to spare for someone who doesn't respect me."

:)


Icemage

[Aeni]

That attitude must win you SO many friends.

"Oops, sorry, I thought that OTHER guy was in red HP. Guess you'll just have to take a Raise I. I don't have MP to spare for someone who doesn't respect me."

:)


Icemage

:rofl:

even if a taru DRK can play well he will not be as good as other races . bottom line is that Tarus are the worst melee race , no doubt .
taru DRK...give me a break... what's next ? taru MNK ? lol -_-;; just heal me midget

learn2play

[Hell-bottom]

lol pitiful , everything about the tarus is sad xD specially when a taru gets a new armor no one will ever notice the difference , heck even if he gets a relic no one will check him lol (Apocalypse = toothpick) ^^

[Icemage]

lol pitiful , everything about the tarus is sad xD specially when a taru gets a new armor no one will ever notice the difference , heck even if he gets a relic no one will check him lol (Apocalypse = toothpick) ^^

Quit trolling the boards, k?

And no, that's not a joke.


Icemage

FFXIOnline Forum Super Moderator

[Clever Ninja]

Taru DRKs can offset their HP handicap somewhat with things like Physical Earrings, which are surprisingly cheap. Astrals cost around 800k on Hades, and those Hades are around 10k. And as a Taru, you have more MP naturally to work with. Although at 75 your HP will be alot lower than a Galka DRK, as at 75 the race gap reappears again. Don't let that discourage you though. As long as you play your class well, you'll get recognized by the community and still be able to participate in endgame.

[WishMaster3K]

Yeah, I have WAR already at 37, but THF is at 16. What level am I going to start needing THF sub, 60 right?

And I agree, DRK looks fun. I'm expecting to go the Atk/STR gear + Acc food method, but is that ideal? And what about subbing NIN and using a 1h Weapon for DoT? So many questions!

And after lvl 55 (or whenever DRK get Rampage) I expect to be fully utilizing a NIN sub when I start spamming Rampage with Absorb TP.

I've also heard that DRKs can't simply keep job abilities active like other jobs, because that spells death.

*sigh* So many questions. I think i'll re-ask when I'm not experiencing a fanboyish infatuation with this job.

[Hell-bottom]

Quit trolling the boards, k?

And no, that's not a joke.


Icemage

FFXIOnline Forum Super Moderator

i'm only saying my openion on the matter , if you don't like what i'm saying, ignore it . what do you think ? that everyone should agree ? if not you will punish him ?

tarutaru has always been in the last place in Melee jobs no buts and ifs , 2nd when i was talking about how gears looked on Tarus , i only said the truth .

[Icemage]

i'm only saying my openion on the matter , if you don't like what i'm saying, ignore it . what do you think ? that everyone should agree ? if not you will punish him ?
tarutaru has always been in the last place in Melee jobs no buts and ifs , 2nd when i was talking about how gears looked on Tarus , i only said the truth .
Ahem.

See the red text in my name on the left? That means I moderate this place, and that means it's my job to care about what gets posted here - and I don't appreciate people tossing grenades into the forum that threaten to blow up what has been thus far a very civilized and useful discussion.

All that separates Tarutaru from other races is a single piece of decent gear except in the cases I outlined above. You place way more emphasis on racial differences than really exist.


Icemage

[WishMaster3K]

Firstly, Gear is 80% of the fight with Melee. Imagine a scenario where every melee has the same gear. Then it all comes down to personal playing style. If you want, compare the base stats of all the jobs at 75.

Elvaan DRK at 75 have
1158 HP
266 MP
69 STR
56 DEX
50 AGI

Taru DRK at 75 have
886 HP
495 MP
58 STR
59 DEX
59 AGI

This means that a Taru can feasable spam TP-Absorb more than a Elvaan can, and make up in DoT what they lose in raw strength.

Now I'm just looking at numbers, not playing style. DRK can merit themselves differently, and just at looking at Group 2, it's feasable to have a Taru who relies more on accuracy (DoT) while a Elvaan focuses on STR.

And honestly, what level are you to be so biased? What's the real difference in exp, specifically TP burn pts, between a Taru DRK/NIN that can bust out X damage and an Elvaan that might bust out X+200 or X+400? People don't care about raw numbers in TP burn, because we have WARs all over the place with 1k+ Rampages one fight and 400 Rampages the next.

The chain goes on and the fight continues.

Even in exp before TP-burn, at lvl 60, all DRKs sub THF for insane spike damage. And after the SC close and the MB, the mob dies either way.

And let's look at HNM. Melee's sub SAM and they all set up for the MB.

So what is your point? You don't have one, you're just an uneducated flamer. Having an opinion is fantastic, but not being able to logically back it up shows your noobness.

I'm guessing that you lost a spot in a static because a Taru took your place, so you're bitter.

It's ok, we'll still love you.

[Hell-bottom]

numbers back me up , and yeah there's alot of different styles and i'm talking about one style not two with the same player .
if you want to be a BLM-1 (Taru DRK) be my guest . but everyone will choose to be a real Dark knights . no one wants to be outdamaged by an Elvaan SAM in Single hits , specially not a DRK.

notice: This is FFXI not WOW so keep the DPS out of this , it's not what FFXI is all about.

[Icemage]

numbers back me up , and yeah there's alot of different styles and i'm talking about one style not two with the same player .
if you want to be a BLM-1 (Taru DRK) be my guest . but everyone will choose to be a real Dark knights . no one wants to be outdamaged by an Elvaan SAM in Single hits , specially not a DRK.
notice: This is FFXI not WOW so keep the DPS out of this , it's not what FFXI is all about.

That's right, this IS FFXI. You know... the game where group efforts mean more than individual numbers. I belong to the best NA HNMLS on my server, and you know? We get along just fine no matter what race people play.

Sure, a Taru hits for a few points less damage. Does it matter? Nope.


Icemage

[Hell-bottom]

i rest my case .
sorry if i offended anyone but that's my way of saying things .

[Vyuru]

Burn that brady guide you have in your hands. It does nothing but spew crap.

I have to wonder why no one else has posted a game guide given how crappy the Brady guide is.

Why is there so much taru drk hate? Two reasons.

1) 90% of the people on gamefaqs are idiots

2) Everyone is just jealous that taru drks look so darn CUTE in their AF!



Dragoon is notable for races when you're using a mage subjob also, since Healing Breath also triggers on current HP%, and higher HP races like Galka therefore can operate much more safely when playing DRG/mage.

I'd have to disagree with you there Icemage. In terms of the healing breath activation, yes, Galka will have a higher level of hp to activate it. However a galka has so little mp that they will not be able to safely fight mobs that I can fight simply because they don't have the mp for it.

But differences in non-HP/MP stats don't make a huge impact on your effectiveness.

Agreed, the only race/job combo that could be a problem would be a galkan whm or a galkan paladin, both of which have plenty of +mp options once they hit level 30+ to make up for their low mp.


As for taru tanks, they can tank rather well unless it's a mob that has an especially hard hitting move, say spiders for instance. But you won't see other paladin tanks eager to take on spiders, and other paladin tanks will die just as easily to Sickle Slash, so I think it is a moot point.

[Vyuru]

tarutaru has always been in the last place in Melee jobs no buts and ifs

Well if you want to get REALLY technical about it:

Elvaan drk hits mob for 100 damage!
Galkan an drk hits mob for 95 damage!
Mithra & Hume drk hits mob for 90 damage!
Taru drk hits mob for 88 damage!

Oh, the horror of being the race that's the last place. If all the jobs hit for 100 and a taru hit for 99 then they would STILL be in the last place.

Being in the last place means nothing.

See the red text in my name on the left?

I think it should be more of a magenta shade for mods :P

[Hell-bottom]

100~88 you wish , yeah and you forgot the HP since i was talking about melees (not DRK at that point) . lol dont tell me its 1000~999 xD .

thought : what will the taru ever do if his best advantage (MP)can't be used ,and his biggest disadvantages is the essence of a job , like : WAR , MNK , NIN..etc ;o

[Vyuru]

100~88 you wish , yeah and you forgot the HP since i was talking about melees (not DRK at that point) . lol dont tell me its 1000~999 xD .


You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be misqouted and then used against you.

and people wonder why I have that as my sig, but maybe it's just a troll thing.

[Hell-bottom]

you quoted me when i said (melees) then you did'nt mention (HP) you only mentioned how strong one hits , and that's not the only thing that matters in melee jobs. that can't be misundrstood lol , you quoted me and gave a bad post .

and btw i guess you put that sig to cover up you're expected failures and the future :) nice thinking

[Icemage]

100~88 you wish , yeah and you forgot the HP since i was talking about melees (not DRK at that point) . lol dont tell me its 1000~999 xD .
thought : what will the taru ever do if his best advantage (MP)can't be used ,and his biggest disadvantages is the essence of a job , like : WAR , MNK , NIN..etc ;o

*yawn*

Disadvantages? What disadvantages? A few points of Strength? Who cares, when you've got gear that adds 5-10 points of Strength in a number of locations? The difference isn't material. A well dressed melee is a well dressed melee, regardless of race. They serve the same purpose, and for purposes of group tactics, those handful of stat points mean pretty much nothing.


Icemage

[Hell-bottom]

when i said disadvantages i had HP in mind ;) (example: eqp Bomb queen and you lose a slot to eqp +5 STR , adding this to you're originally low STR) that's just an everyday problem for a taru melee ... i don't hate them i just want what's best for them :P

[WishMaster3K]

Yeah, honestly, you haven't raised any good points.

The reason I'm bothering to raise DRK is because I remember a DRK/NIN taru who was pretty uber in his prime. And I have a friend who is quitting and giving me his Triumph +1's, Haubergeon +1, Swift Belt, Flame Ring and other things just to name a few.

Once you have about 100 STR (which I believe is possible) then the difference between 11 base STR at 75 is moot.

Edit:
With 2 Flame Rings i'd have +15 STR (TY Merits)
Oh yeah, Merits are a good way for covering for your race's short comings.

But I suppose with you being a 75 job, you'd know that.

[Daziz]

OMG.

Hell-bottom sounds like a noob.

Taru can play any class very well. Im a tarutaru and i have a lv75 war and lv73 sam once my sam hits 75 im goin to be taking drk to 75.

On my war and sam i have out dmged other races with same weapon skills like rampage and tachi gekko not always but every now and then but mostly everything is kind of average on ws dmg. Its not just about dmg anyway its about skill of the player alot of things to think about one thing could the person pull with out problems.

Players skill > Gear > race in my opinion.

Also i dont know what it is but tarus acc does seem better than a elvaans acc so if a elvaan is hitting for 100 and taru hitting for 88 taru could possible hit more than the elvaan making them do better dmg in long run and build tp faster.

Ive played with a number of very good galka whms and smns in the time ive played in this game better than there taru counter parts.

Only real weakness taru have is there low hp's and thats about it.

[Hell-bottom]

don't tell me that you just said Swift belt , coz if u did don't bother leveling DRK..

[WishMaster3K]

notice: This is FFXI not WOW so keep the DPS out of this , it's not what FFXI is all about.

LoL

Edit:
Why not? When Swift Belt is one of the most lusted after waist pieces? I'm sure that it sucks. I'm sorry, please give me a lifebelt! 10Acc at level 75 even though I'm eating Sole Sushi will make or break me!

[Hell-bottom]

OMG.

Hell-bottom sounds like a noob.

Taru can play any class very well. Im a tarutaru and i have a lv75 war and lv73 sam once my sam hits 75 im goin to be taking drk to 75.

On my war and sam i have out dmged other races with same weapon skills like rampage and tachi gekko not always but every now and then but mostly everything is kind of average on ws dmg. Its not just about dmg anyway its about skill of the player alot of things to think about one thing could the person pull with out problems.

Players skill > Gear > race in my opinion.

Also i dont know what it is but tarus acc does seem better than a elvaans acc so if a elvaan is hitting for 100 and taru hitting for 88 taru could possible hit more than the elvaan making them do better dmg in long run and build tp faster.

Ive played with a number of very good galka whms and smns in the time ive played in this game better than there taru counter parts.

Only real weakness taru have is there low hp's and thats about it.

1-everyone has better acc than elvs .
2-if you want better acc. it's mithras and they even have better STR than tarus and more HP .
so yeah .. tarus still sux in an avarage comparison.
3- don't tell me you're life story , i'm not talking about you , i'm talking in general , you wont hear me telling a taru with a Bravura that he sux and that he should quit :angry: .

[Hell-bottom]

lol wishmaster3k Swift belt is indeed a wanted piece of armor , but theres a little problem , he can't give it to you ... coz it's something we call : Rare/ex

[Daziz]

your the one saying that taru suck at melee and they should only stick to mage jobs.

but u dont take in any info that is given to u about how in other ways there better than other races. Just simple facts that they hit more can make them do more dmg overal than a elvaan.

Most fights can end very quickly with a sc at like 50% so if the drk dont get tp fast enough to close the sc then u can have a problem of possibly losing the exp chain.

Faster the mobs die the faster u get exp simple as that.

[Hell-bottom]

(food)(do you need it?)

[WishMaster3K]

Yeah, Sonic or w/e it is. It sells for like 30-50mil and no one sells it on the AH unless they're showing off.

And this is a pointless argument, Daziz just hit the nail on the head.

Moving on, what about subbing NIN to DRK at higher levels. What's the feasability of that?

[Taskmage]

/sigh Are we still talking about this? Any race can play any job effectively. There are small differences, but for the most party nobody cares. Those on one side of the arguement are never going to convince those on the other to change their viewpoint. I've never seen it happen in the probably hundreds of pages of race threads on the board. So with that in mind, let's all just save our energy on this coversation, shall we?

And guys, if it looks like a troll, and it smells like a troll, and you think it might be a troll, don't throw food at it!

[Daziz]

Food sounds good wonder what should eat then.

Anyway all melee would be using sushi for the extra acc but even then players still miss the mob its simple as that, a taru would still hit more even if both were eating sushi.

I personally dont think u have played much of ffxi to know what ur talking about on any server there is quite alot of lv75 taru melee and if taru were no good at melee and race ment everything then surely there would be no taru melee at 75.

[Daziz]

Subbing Nin for Drk is pretty good if needed for the pty set up. When i lved war in a burn pty at 60 we had a drk/nin for the burn pty and worked out pretty good but i would think would be alot better for 70+ burn ptys.

[ValisOfValefor]

Wow first DP ever ><

[Hell-bottom]

Yeah, Sonic or w/e it is. It sells for like 30-50mil and no one sells it on the AH unless they're showing off.

And this is a pointless argument, Daziz just hit the nail on the head.

Moving on, what about subbing NIN to DRK at higher levels. What's the feasability of that?
level DRK then Figure it out yourself GB ..oh sorry i meant (i got this from a friend that's quitting the game blah blah plz dont kill me ) lol xD

i'm out of here .

[ValisOfValefor]

But you won't see other paladin tanks eager to take on spiders, and other paladin tanks will die just as easily to Sickle Slash, so I think it is a moot point.

Umm in my entire time in Quicksand Caves I never once fell to Sickle Slash, So I dont mind tanking spiders, heck I enjoys them.

Now that War/nin on the other hand...

He got one shotted by sickle slash, when he decided to do his WS before I got solid hate control :rofl:

But on topic I enjoy Taru Darks, And I've seen them put up better numbers than other races. That is if properly equiped

[Vyuru]

Umm in my entire time in Quicksand Caves I never once fell to Sickle Slash, So I dont mind tanking spiders, heck I enjoys them.

Wow, that's pretty impressive. Most paladin tanks I have will only really consider them after we've killed all the beetles, THEN they'll consider spiders :P I haven't seen too many paladin die to spiders, which is good since Sickle Slash on the whm would kinda hurt ;)

offtopic

Quick question though, is it true that BarEarth will reduce the damage that sickle slash does? I had a paladin tell me that, but I was never able to get the whm to test it out.

back on topic

Moving on, what about subbing NIN to DRK at higher levels. What's the feasability of that?


I've seen some nice numbers put out by drk/nin with dual axes, or axe+sword. My only complaint about that is that as a dragoon, you aren't using the scythes, great axes, or great swords that I love SCing with so much, but the axes do put out some lovely damage, especially with Soul Eater is it? The one that adds 10% of your hp to your damage. Utsusemi gives you some leeway in case you grab hate which is nice, and you can drain back any hp that you lose.

[Taskmage]

Moving on, what about subbing NIN to DRK at higher levels. What's the feasability of that?I welcome this derail. I dunno, I've heard people say it works but I'm not sure if I buy it. Even with maxed sword merits and suppanomimi, you're still only looking at a B+ ranking in sword. Less than people like for you to have to melee. I know wars do /nin and offhand Ridill for TP, but not only do they have 10 more skill, but they usually mainhand an axe when they do that right? So their WS would be based on that A-ranked weapon.

Edit: Hmm. If you can finish Waking the Beast (quite a feat) and are lucky enough to see Shiva's Shotel drop, you could mainhand that and maybe that would work. It's got 45 base damage and +8 accuracy, which might make up for your naturally lower attack and acc due to weapon skill.

[WishMaster3K]

I'm saying DRK/NIN because the ONLY job that stole hate from me once I hit 37 as a PLD was a taru DRK/NIN. But iirc, he did it because he kept his job abilities active for longer than most other DRK, and unless I'm mistaken, isn't that a noob move? I mean, it does good damage, but I heard that SE is only for burst damage.

But anyway, he would do it, get massive hate, and the shadows kept him alive long enough for me to run over to him and Cover, or pull hate back with Flash and Voke.

Also, are there DRKs that cast more than ABS-DEX and ABS-TP? With my MP, I'd be spamming Drain, Aspir, ABS-TP/STR/DEX whenever I could. I think that is the advantage of being a Taru: We can afford to cast those Absorb spells that cover our weaknesses.

And I have "capped" dark magic from lvling RDM to 75 (Which capped at 200, iirc. lolRDMDarkSkill.)

[Taskmage]

But iirc, he did it because he kept his job abilities active for longer than most other DRK, and unless I'm mistaken, isn't that a noob move? I mean, it does good damage, but I heard that SE is only for burst damage.Are you subbing Murphie again? I think you might need to level that. You'll get much better results from the higher level job traits when it's not gimp. :P

[Hell-bottom]

i can't help but to comment , DRK + Sword = total destruction , personally as a Hume DRK , i do a rather nice DMG compared to a WAR with double axes . that adds to the solo capablity of a DRK/NIN , get haste eqp and you're DRK will be invincible .

[Vyuru]

Also, are there DRKs that cast more than ABS-DEX and ABS-TP? With my MP, I'd be spamming Drain, Aspir, ABS-TP/STR/DEX whenever I could. I think that is the advantage of being a Taru: We can afford to cast those Absorb spells that cover our weaknesses.


This is true, but I think that drks should think more about what helps their party and their absorb spells.

Sure, absorb Vit doesn't do that much by itself, neither does Dia II or Choke. But toss on Dia II, Choke, and Absorb Vit, that IT mob is being hit like a VT+, toss in an acid bolt and he is being hit like a VT-.

I REALLY love it when a dark knight uses their absorb spells, they are very helpful to a party.

[WishMaster3K]

LoL, I don't know what you're talking about. I've been a RDM as long as I can remember. My Subjob has been PMP for 3 years. ;)

[Aeni]

This means that a Taru can feasable spam TP-Absorb more than a Elvaan can, and make up in DoT what they lose in raw strength.

Just a correction WM :p Abs is on a one minute cooldown. You cannot "spam" this spell, even if you were to merit (I'm not sure if this is even available) and reduce the cooldown of these spells. If you get a resist or failed attempt, that's a whole 60sec which presumably means you need to wait for the next fight to reuse it, depending on how quickly the party can kill.

Still, even once a fight is pretty decent, but this is the leverage that SE has over DRKs on abusing TP gain with the spell. This also makes it impossible for a Galkan or Elvaan DRK to have shortcomings, due to the fact that with a refresh, they have more than ample enough MP to float.

All Abs spells are situational and work the same way as a WHM using Erase or BLM using Escape. You just select the spells that benefit the party more on any particular fight.

However, what you mean to say is that Tarutaru DRKs do have a higher INT stat and a stronger MP pool than their sibling DRKs. This makes it possible for them to nuke more, given the fact that spells are relatively expensive compared with the average MP pool DRKs have in general. This means more possibilities with laying an MB down while not having to be restraint on MP conservation. However, MP, if not rested, is replenished in the same manner, so burning MP for a Tarutaru might be a disadvantage in certain party situations and will never be beneficial in a TP burn PT.

With that said, I disagree entirely with Hell-Bottom's analysis. I've had the luxury of PT'ing with or even grouping with DRKs like Strength, Kumaeru and Meo (Galkan, Tarutaru, Mithran respectively) Each one of them represented their race without equal and excelled their job class. I learned from the best and thus I came to the conclusion that if there were differences, it was minor and that play ability > everything else.

Again, to Hell-Bottom ... learn2play (lrn2ply)

[WishMaster3K]

Hey, DRK have higher elemental damage rating than RDM. But RDM get staves, Tier III and +skill gear, so it doesn't matter. I just thought that DRK were given a base of B-ish skill for a reason... Thanks for highlighting that, Aeni.

And I rarely see DRK use MP aside from the occasional Stun and more recently, ABS-TP. I can't shake the feeling that the majority of Dark Spells are being unused...

But in anycase, I suppose you just supported my analysis that a Taru would be more inclined to cast more ABS spells, simply because their MP afforded them the priveledge, and an Elvaan or Galka wouldn't be missing out, because their raw stats provide them with enough of a buffer as it is.


Off-Topic:
Oh, and would Auto-Refresh (LoL, sidenote: I just pressed [TAB] to try and finish that word >_> ) help DRK like it has helped PLD? Did DRKs feel left out when PLDs got that? I was of the impression that most everything PLD and DRK did correlated for Defense and Offense respectively. Would you veteren DRKs use your abilities more if you had Auto-Refresh?

[Taskmage]

It is actually true that drk has a higher elemental skill than rdm, they just get new spells way, way slower than we do. Perhaps ironically, they can do fast, weak nukes fairly accurately whereas we get to swing the big tier-3 spells while crossing our fingers it doesn't miss. ^^ But, it's not that drk doesn't get staves—all jobs can use them—it'd just be a mess for them to swap and lose TP all the time.

I do agree with you that it seems most drks don't make the most of their spells. Heck, even Stun is a rare enough thing for me to see. I don't know how efficient or effective the various stat-absorb spells are, but at very least I think I should see Drain get cast a lot more often. Drain is an absurdly efficient damage spell, and drk has the best rating for it, making it both more potent and more accurate for them. Even with my rdm's D or whatever rated dark skill I can still pull a Drain for nearly 200 every now and then. 200 damage for 21 mp is awesome! I mean sure, I guess you don't get TP for it, but that's still a nice chunk of damage. Maybe they think because the log says "drained for 0" when they're at full health that the spell didn't do any damage?

[Aeni]

Off-Topic:
Oh, and would Auto-Refresh (LoL, sidenote: I just pressed [TAB] to try and finish that word >_> ) help DRK like it has helped PLD? Did DRKs feel left out when PLDs got that? I was of the impression that most everything PLD and DRK did correlated for Defense and Offense respectively. Would you veteren DRKs use your abilities more if you had Auto-Refresh?

I don't think it would matter. There's a degree of stereotyping among DRKs with the whole debate on the usefulness of spell casting. On one extreme, you have players that will say that if your MP isn't bottomed out on Chain #5, you're a nub and shouldn't even be playing the job. These are the very same people advocating for dedication of 20+ equipment pieces to swap in on every single spell casting routine (To the detriment of the RDM refreshing that DRK - omg, I find this on a first hand experience ******* annoying to no end)

On the otherside, are people that say if you're into casting spell, you're playing the wrong job. That you should pickup BLM instead. They also say you still can have a scythe, since all you want with it is to look pretty.

Those are the polar ends.

I've come to realize, however, that there is a time and place for casting spells. Casting too much wreaks your melee dps. Over a course of one minute, you have to balance off the loss of natural melee damage with the offset from spell casting. Granted, we do have high elemental skill, but it is increasingly difficult and frustrating to maintain this skill when your only gain is from actually casting expensive, lower tiered spells that produce meaningless amounts of damage in comparison to the wicked amounts of mp you expend and in comparison to the other jobs with similar abilities (SMN, BLM and RDM) And mind you, you do not have the benefit of Conserve MP, regardless on how little or great other mages view that trait as. You also must sacrifice TP with having to restore MP on resting. Again, if you do not rest, MP regen is extremely slow and is no different from a Tarutaru DRK and a Galkan DRK. The only difference is one job sees their meter fill up faster than the other due to the difference in the size of that pool.

So, what do I see casting since the latest patches? Abs-TP is great, it makes us expend a bit more. But, in this department, ironically enough, we share the same pains as BLM. MP restoration is a hindrance to exp flow. Our lower tiers available to us when compared with a BLM makes this even less attractive and since our greatest assets lie in our ability to deal a large amount of damage over time and in bursts (with our job abilities) that more DRKs tend to shy than embrace spell casting.

This of course becomes a problem in TP Burn parties. Most DRKs discard the use of MP except to "catch up" with TP. TP Burns have reduced DRKs to no more than mindless swinging TP whores like most every other melee in the exception that most other melee were doing that from the very start.

It is actually true that drk has a higher elemental skill than rdm, they just get new spells way, way slower than we do. Perhaps ironically, they can do fast, weak nukes fairly accurately whereas we get to swing the big tier-3 spells while crossing our fingers it doesn't miss. ^^ But, it's not that drk doesn't get staves—all jobs can use them—it'd just be a mess for them to swap and lose TP all the time.

I do agree with you that it seems most drks don't make the most of their spells. Heck, even Stun is a rare enough thing for me to see. I don't know how efficient or effective the various stat-absorb spells are, but at very least I think I should see Drain get cast a lot more often. Drain is an absurdly efficient damage spell, and drk has the best rating for it, making it both more potent and more accurate for them. Even with my rdm's D or whatever rated dark skill I can still pull a Drain for nearly 200 every now and then. 200 damage for 21 mp is awesome! I mean sure, I guess you don't get TP for it, but that's still a nice chunk of damage. Maybe they think because the log says "drained for 0" when they're at full health that the spell didn't do any damage?

Stun is rarely used except to keep skills capped. I've seen DRKs reduce to casting just Bio so that the mages can write over it with Dia II. This helps them build their skill and not interfere with party dynamics. Stun is useful when giving time for an utsu recast, but honestly, NINs don't need this with haste gear and haste songs/spells on. So it's more used like Flash when a PLD/NIN uses it (With regards to helping other melee members in TP Burn) That, at least, is how I'm seeing the state of things currently.

[Vyuru]

Stun is rarely used except to keep skills capped. I've seen DRKs reduce to casting just Bio so that the mages can write over it with Dia II

Sure, not all mobs have mp, but why not aspir? Or drain? Drain is a kickass spell in terms of mp used/damage dealt.

I normally see plenty of drks casting stun when fighting goblins in Bibiki Bay, other than that though, not so often. I see blm stunning attacks/TP moves so that the pld/ninja can get off a spell.

When I play rdm, I have a general rule that if they cast spells, they get refresh so that their mp is always full, if they cast 1 spell every 5 fights, then they can wait :P

You also must sacrifice TP with having to restore MP on resting.

But with Absorb TP, isn't this a bit of a moot point? You guys can get 40+tp pretty quickly now with it.

You guys can also wear the Parade Gorget, so maybe we'll see some more drks using that mp pool of theirs. You can also use sanction refresh to get more mp for use which is pretty nice.

Bah, all these ways to play drk with so many possibilities, I may have to level dark knight now >.>

I can't shake the feeling that the majority of Dark Spells are being unused...


I would have to argree with you. I had a dark knight friend (sadly he quit :/) who used to use, I think it was Absorb Mind if the blm was getting alot of resists. He always complained because his party would say something along the lines of, "wtf? drk doesn't need mnd!11!" Meanwhile, the blm is now landing unresisted nukes :P

Bah, I miss Amazo ; ; He was a great guy.

[WishMaster3K]

I think you mean ABS-INT, lol...

[Mini Neruto]

Lol, hey guys havent been on in a while. That hell guy sure is a...dont know if im allowed to say it on the boards. Ive out damaged Elv MANY times with other melee jobs, its all about skill and gear baby! Elv think there big and bad with str and they dont back it up with consistant hits? Taru can rack up tp FAST especially on sam.

All i got to say. (Oh and i stopped lvling drk and started lvl sam ^^, its really really fun).

[Aeni]

Sure, not all mobs have mp, but why not aspir? Or drain? Drain is a kickass spell in terms of mp used/damage dealt.

In my own experience, Stun gives you 0.3 skill ups more often than 0.1 when used on VT-IT mobs. Plus, it's almost never resisted (Except against certain NM/HNMs) Drain has the problem of being resisted more often than not, even when an A rated skill is capped. My skill is always capped and even on EM type monsters I get resisted about 20~25% of the time (I'm starting to be suspicious about the resist rate with Drain as it seems to follow a different calculation than the resist rate for elemental spells because 180 drain and then 197 drain on the same mob in the same battle is not a nice fractional ratio)

Aspir is quite situational. Also, against something like those weapons in sky with Shell IV on, it's next to useless.

I normally see plenty of drks casting stun when fighting goblins in Bibiki Bay, other than that though, not so often. I see blm stunning attacks/TP moves so that the pld/ninja can get off a spell.

Again, situational. Some Bibiki Bay parties believed you shouldn't stun a gob bomb because there's a chance that the gob will kill himself and thus the battle is done. And usually there's no damage (not a great one) on the party. Of course, there's also a chance that the bomb will be so devastating that a whole PT can be wiped off the face of Vana'Diel.

Stun is also on 45s recast and with haste, it's still about 40s or so. You can only use it once per battle. I've fought weapons with back-to-back-to-back-to-back Whirl of Rage that even if I and then the BLM stopped the first two, you still get shellacked on the next two. TP usage by monsters are so random that it goes back again to situational and that you almost always can't determine when you need it. In my experience, it's almost never needed (There were TP burn PTs in Sky on those same weapons long before ToAU and those parties excluded DRKs back then as well as BLM = no stun)

When I play rdm, I have a general rule that if they cast spells, they get refresh so that their mp is always full, if they cast 1 spell every 5 fights, then they can wait :P

You're in a category of roughly 20% of good RDMs that I've seen/partied with/studied on two servers (Mid and Hades) Sad, but true.

But with Absorb TP, isn't this a bit of a moot point? You guys can get 40+tp pretty quickly now with it.

They now changed it so that you can't get it at will (It can be resisted as well and I would not be surprised that it's now on the same level as the resist rate with other Abs spells and if that's the case, then Abs-TP is now lol) Also, you have to time it. You can't start a battle with it, right? Monster needs to build TP. If a NIN is tanking, monster gets TP only from damage on itself as it can't build TP hitting shadows...

You guys can also wear the Parade Gorget, so maybe we'll see some more drks using that mp pool of theirs. You can also use sanction refresh to get more mp for use which is pretty nice.

Bah, all these ways to play drk with so many possibilities, I may have to level dark knight now >.>

I would have to argree with you. I had a dark knight friend (sadly he quit :/) who used to use, I think it was Absorb Mind if the blm was getting alot of resists. He always complained because his party would say something along the lines of, "wtf? drk doesn't need mnd!11!" Meanwhile, the blm is now landing unresisted nukes :P

Bah, I miss Amazo ; ; He was a great guy.

You're talking either from a personal experience from the past or are not following the current trend which is TP Burn PTs > all. Every new DRK I see is now subbing NIN and dual wielding one handers. IF SE wanted DRKs to use Scythe more often, they better address the whole TP Burn PT issues ... which seems to have created problems not just with PLDs, BLMs, WHMs ... but as well as forcing everyone to avoid using high delay weapons.

[Aeni]

Forgot to add another classic example with stun.

You say there's two (BLM and DRK if in PT) yet you forget that alot of TP moves begin with the first weapon skill. Weapons almost always Whirl of Rage after the first ws. The DRK/THF is preparing SATA + WS at this time and the BLM has already started casting his lengthy spell. At this point in time ... do you screw up the WS or MB just to stun? In either case, it's screwed already - Whirl of Rage is AoE stun. If NIN is in PT, no shield bash.

My post above the one before this was illustrating general DRK sentiments on the whole debate on spell casting. In no way was it a take on all DRKs and/or a minor few.

[Taskmage]

According to the updated TP formulas from Studio Gobli, the best delay ranges for TP gain are below 200 delay, and between 480 and 530 delay. Most scythes fall into the latter range, whereas swords with 235 delay or lower would qualify for the former with the 15% delay reduction from DW2. Looking at the chart (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Image:Tpgain.jpg) scythes should be equal or slightly faster than swords in TP gained in a given amount of time, assuming the accuracy of each is equivalent. Even with sword merits, drk would have higher accuracy with a scythe, and not being tied to /nin would allow them to sub war or sam for double attack or store TP and meditate to speed up their TP gain further.

On paper, it doesn't make sense for drk to sub nin and dual wield swords for faster TP gain. Am I missing something?

[WishMaster3K]

Melee sub NIN in TP burn because of moves. There isn't a true "tank," aside from someone who is the main focus of attention for the slight majority of the time.

DRKs subbing NIN in TP Burn still use scythe because they get their best WSs with them, it's just that with AOE moves and that 3 hit thing Wyverns do, and the fact that when you spam a WS, the mob could turn anywhich way, even MNKs sub NIN in these parties.

[Aeni]

On paper, it doesn't make sense for drk to sub nin and dual wield swords for faster TP gain. Am I missing something?

I know for a fact, yet you can tell this to all the DRKs using 1hd axe/swords for this. High delay weapons have the problems of gaining TP slowly, moreso if you don't sub WAR for double attack. Ask any /THF if you don't believe me.

There's a lot of gear available that DRKs can wear that give +haste and also adds additional effect when a BRD plays certain songs.

DRKs subbing NIN in TP Burn still use scythe because they get their best WSs with them, it's just that with AOE moves and that 3 hit thing Wyverns do, and the fact that when you spam a WS, the mob could turn anywhich way, even MNKs sub NIN in these parties.

I don't believe DRKs that sub NIN wielding high delay weapons can pull as much dmg as a DRK/THF (burst) or DRK/WAR (dps) Because of this, they end up switching to other weapons available. Some of the more fortunate will be wielding Ridill (I remember there's an LS on Hades that when claiming Faffy/Nidhogg will just throw away Ridills because everyone who wanted one in that LS already have it) and other such weapons.

[Hell-bottom]

Some of the more fortunate will be wielding Ridill (I remember there's an LS on Hades that when claiming Faffy/Nidhogg will just throw away Ridills because everyone who wanted one in that LS already have it) and other such weapons.

/em start packing :(

[Radel-King_of_Pirates]

i'm only saying my openion on the matter , if you don't like what i'm saying, ignore it . what do you think ? that everyone should agree ? if not you will punish him ?

tarutaru has always been in the last place in Melee jobs no buts and ifs , 2nd when i was talking about how gears looked on Tarus , i only said the truth .

Your thurth is sadly is mainstream spin-off. If you think that just because a taru only good in the back, then sorry your mistaken. I seen good taru tanks, drks, and even nins. Shouldn't dis a race never know when your goin to eat your own hat in the end.

[WishMaster3K]

Shouldn't dis a race never know when your goin to eat your own hat in the end.

That's my new catchphrase for like, everything.