Samurai Update

[Slayerxox]

The samurai's job abilities and traits are often needed for specific situations, but tend not to stand out in experience-gaining parties. The next version update will address this issue as well as make the samurai a more viable support job for main jobs that utilize two-handed weapons.

[New Job Abilities]
Both an offensive and defensive job ability will be added. The casting intervals were made shorter than the durations so that players can use the abilities whenever they are needed. In addition, the abilities are learned at a level low enough to allow their use even when samurai is set as a support job.

· Hasso (Level 25; Recast: 1 minute; Duration: 5 minutes)
Grants a bonus to attack speed, accuracy, and Strength when using two-handed weapons.

· Seigan (Level 35; Recast: 1 minute; Duration: 5 minutes)
Grants a bonus to Third Eye when using two-handed weapons.

Seigan and Third Eye
While Seigan is in effect, the recast time for the Third Eye job ability will be decreased by half. In accordance, the duration for "Third Eye" will be adjusted.

Also, with the next version update, the player may counterattack or keep the effect of Third Eye when the player evades an attack using the Third Eye job ability. The chance that the player will keep the Third Eye effect even after evading will gradually decrease from the time the ability is used.

Points to Note:
- The effects of Hasso and Seigan do not overlap. If both abilities are used, only the most recently activated ability will take effect.
- Hasso and Seigan will only take effect when the player is equipped with a two-handed weapon.
- A penalty will be imposed on magic, song, and ninjutsu recast time while Hasso or Seigan is in effect.

[Changes to Existing Abilities]
The job trait Overwhelm will be adjusted to be more effective against high-level enemies, and the job trait Zanshin will be adjusted to increase the effectiveness of the job trait Ikishoten.

- The duration of the job ability Third Eye will be changed to 30 seconds.
- The job trait Zanshin will be acquired at level 20.
- Players will be able to use a merit point to increase weapon skill damage by 5% when the job trait Overwhelm is in effect.

As previously stated, the next version update will include several adjustments to other jobs as well.
Keep checking the main page for more information!

Source: http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/887/detail.html

[Kirsteena]

Frankly that looks like it will rock.

[Althrun]

/stagger

That's just..

That's awesome!

[Rai]

I see WAR/SAMs DRG/SAMs and DRK/SAMs(some will try it out) running around in the future.

[Balfree]

Woot, i may go back to sam someday :o it sits comfortably at lvl 49 atm

[Celeal]

With the Third Eye adjustment, possible for SAM/WAR to tank @@? I mean stack +evasion gear when Third Eye is up, Def+ gear when Third Eye is down?

P.S. It is nice for Two-handed weapon user to /SAM too ^^;

[Intensity]

Wow. Can you believe we may see WAR's running around with their A+ weapon now? Will wonders never cease.

[Murphie]

Nerf SAM, plz.

[Althrun]

Nerf WAR/NIN, plz.


fixed ;)

[Celeal]

Nerf SAM, plz.
Oh, come on :worry: :P

I cannot wait to try SAM and WAR/SAM after this update~

Great Axe only 3 points behind capped :)

Imagine lvl 60 WAR/SAM with:
Hasso (Grants a bonus to attack speed, accuracy, and Strength when using two-handed weapons.)
Third Eye (may counter-attack after update)
gimp version of Mediate (free 60% TP every 3 minutes)
Store TP
Zanshin

Alternate between Hasso and Aggressor, war/sam can have acc+ bonus for 4 out of 5 minutes. Combine Great Axe and Attack+ food, it will be wicked. I am thinking about the ATK+ food that has Store TP bonus :biggrin:

With lvl 60+ WAR/SAM's lesser version of Mediate (60% TP every 3 minutes), Zanshin, Double Attack, Store-TP... This is so evil! :evil:

If too much hate, WAR/SAM have Third Eye, Defender, and access to high armor. :rofl:

I guess we will see a lot of people going to level SAM to 37+ after this update, and lots of Great Axes skill up parties...

[Murphie]

fixed ;)You can't fix sarcasm! :vent:

[pearlsea]

This looks great for sam, im defenitly goin go try to get my sam 25 pre update to check the changes out. Sam is now my official planed sub for war 40-55 O.o and maybe 60+ depending on how effective this will be. I also expect to see alot more DRK/SAM around, lower delay, acc+, attack+, Zanshin, store tp, meditate sound too awsome imo when combined with absorb-TP. Maybe if they reverse the WS-TP nurf for sam and /sam only it will make the job even more atractive.

[Althrun]

You can't fix sarcasm! :vent:

You can when you use sarcasm to fix it :cool:

[Murphie]

But you didn't.

Anyway, this is a very exciting thing for SAMs. I'm all for it. Now let's give those neglected NINs and BRDs some love, SE. They never get groups!

[Intensity]

I want Jubaku: Ni damnit.

And I'm definitely jumping on this bandwagon. WAR/SAM ftw. Just have to level SAM up for sub on my character that has WAR leveled.

[Ziero]

Pure freaking AWESOME

I gotta finish lvling my Sam now, I stopped at 27 but always wanted to go to 37 for endgame use. But now it seems like it'll always be a great sub for 2 handers. War/Sam FTW

[raidenn]

Wait Zanshin is moved to 20? Geez subbing Sam will be really viable now.
Wish they had a parry ability too... Or gain tp while parrying...

[Altariel]

Great news for you guys and gals. {Congratulations}

[Raydeus]

Nerf SAM, plz.

I second that, /SAM is breaking the game's balance even if the changes haven't been implemented yet.

/SAM will be the /NIN of two-handed weapons, so evading an attack every 30 seconds is too godly, make it so you only have a 1% chance of evading!!1.




PS > I guess SAM will be the next job I take to 75 after I'm done with THF and BLM :biggrin:

[Murphie]

Heh, now people are taking it too far. :p

[Raydeus]

Heh, now people are taking it too far. :p

:P


Edit +1 > So all the jobs that had that coment in red will have changes this next update?

[Omniblast]

2 handers? Staff included? ^_^. MNK/SAM with staff.

[Rai]

Edit +1 > So all the jobs that had that coment in red will have changes this next update?

yeah, in Oct RNG, DRG, SMN and SAM will get adjustments

[Hantz]

yeah, in Oct RNG, DRG, SMN and SAM will get adjustments

Which will be pretty badass if they all get something as substantial as SAM is. I just started maining my RNG and only have it to 11, but I'm already loving it. If it gets even better, I may implode.

[Altariel]

Even with the third eye timer changed, I don't think this throws things out of balance. mitigating 1 attack / 30 sec =/= mitigating 6 attacks with shadows.

[Stooky]

I want to level sam to 37 now for my war.... it looks like it will actualy be dead sexy, and I also love using great axe :D
Stoped playing war becuase I hated /nin and /thf and /mnk was not liked ; ; So im happy!

[Jei]

always want to level up sam since some time ago. how are their invite rates for marit PT tho? don't remember seeing that many sam in merit.

[Balfree]

Who else sees this as a complement for WAR to use Gax / other 2h wpns and sub SAM? Part of SE's "we want you to use more variety of subs as war" act? "Fixing" both SAM and WAR? Sounds smarts :O

[Mhurron]

2 handers? Staff included? ^_^. MNK/SAM with staff. SMN/SAM or BLM/SAM or WHM/SAM

[Armando]

Finally, the melee world becomes a little bit more balanced. This is truly awesome.

[nanatsu]

Oh wow. I've always loved the war job. The one reason why I decided not to level it was because I wanted to go old school war/mnk with great axe, but everyone and their mom seemed to have a problem with that and want war/nin only. If this change does what it's intended to do for 2 handed weapons, maybe...just maybe...I'll level war :O

[Dryhus]

I'm eager to see what kind of Accuracy, Haste, and Strength boosts are granted. I'm guessing it will come in increments. Low at first, but nice fat boosts endgame. 25, 40, 55, and 70 maybe. They won't break /SAM (at least I don't think so).

[Stooky]

yep, war/mnk was so ftw... but now war/sam sounds like it will be ftw. Yep, I dont have sam leveled and im happy. I cant wait till the release stuff about other job updates!

[dirtyclown]

Oh my God...YAY, NOW I DON'T HAVE TO SUB NINJA POST 40 FOR MY WARRIOR!

[Vyuru]

Yeah, I wanted to go as a Gaxe using war/mnk, but this looks too awesome...

Do I go as drg/sam, or drg/war now in exp parties? Do I get a Brutal Earring to further boost my double attack or to give me double attack? Do I want that cloak to boost my Zanshin or give me Zanshin? What food do I eat? Gah! Too many choices! I can't decide!!!

On the flip side I'm glad I bought up my samurai gear the other week, I bet it's gonna be pricey.

Oh, and changes that they are thinking of for dragoons (since someone asked)

Adjustments Planned:
1. Super Jump recast will be reduced to 3 minutes.
2. Empathy ability will provide both dragoon and wyvern with stoneskin effect.
3. Spirit Surge will have an added effect with the ability to reset the recast time of all jump abilities.


I'm guessing that Hasso will act alot like Boost, with a bigger bonus as you get higher level. Drg/war was a monster, drg/sam is looking like a beast, this is gonna be fun :D

[AricLokar]

(OK I post this on Alla too, but here we go)
Ok lets break this down....
Hasso

bonus to attack speed (haste) *Yeahhh! This bee good. Not specified how much but should make a difference*
bonus to accuracy *Um we are already ACC whores every breakdown of equipment guide I see it has us using ACC equipment, I would like to see this open "Endgame" equipment to a few more possibilities.*
Strength *Yeah for more damage, uh what else is there to say*

Seigan

Recast time for third eye halved and duration "adjusted" *Basically we get to use Third Eye more often and could possibly last longer.*
Possibility to counterattack or keep third eye on evading an attack *So you don't need the Saotome Haidate now to counter attack, I would imagine it will enchance the counter attack possibility more?*

Zanshin

Accquired at level 20 *Opens this skill when using Sam as a subjob*
May attack immediatly after missing an attack *With current equipment that Sam uses I can't imaging that this is a great big deal since most will have such high ACC that they hardly miss attacks. Will probably help the most at earlier levels where the ACC gear available is lower, and woohoo other jobs get to access it with sub now.*

So here are my thoughts.
There should be many more drk, and drg using SAM as a subjob, and maybe just maybe there will be some warriors using GA at end game with SAM as subjob instead of Nin. How much of a damage increase will depend on if the Warriors will switch, it needs to be just as much damage as dual wield axes, preferiably I would like to see it do more damage overall with the str bonus and acc bonus.
The third eye change.. I am not sure if they are trying to get people to stop using Nin as a tank, or /nin as a tank. Third eye can be used more often, may not go away on the first or second evade possibly longer could possibly counter attack. Would SAM/WAR be an effective tank now? If SAM were to focus on DEF and VIT gear if they went with the defensive skill. Would give you defender, third eye, Def Bonus I and a SAM shouldn't have problems with holding agro on a mob even with reduced attack still have meditate, double attack, attack bonus. Should be able to spam the weapon skills keep the mob on them and hopefully have third eye negate most of the damage just like Utsusemi: Ni. No required tools could make this nice as it would cut down on gil cost for the tank, add the right food... Possibility? How low of a possibility of third eye not going away on an evade, 50% less? more? Does it start at 90% and end at 5% at the end of the "adjusted" duration? Is this duration 2 minutes now, 2 and a half? AOE would still be deadly.. It can be used more often than Ni, would it be as effective.. would it negate 4 attacks often enough? Didn't see anything about it changing the way it handles multi-hit attacks.
Exciting changes. Hopefully this gives SAM a few more opitions now instead of the very restrictive "USE THIS GEAR OR ELSE" mentality that some of the people seem to have.
The Third Eye..
Notes say
While Seigan is in effect, the recast time for the Third Eye job ability will be decreased by half. In accordance, the duration for "Third Eye" will be adjusted.
So as long as you are using Seigan the recast time will be decreased by half, so 30 seconds instead of 1 minute. Also the duration is going to be adjusted. I have no idea if the duration will be longer or shorter but this part:
The casting intervals were made shorter than the durations so that players can use the abilities whenever they are needed.
Makes me think that with Seigan active Third eye could potentially last longer. I would imagine that it would reach a very low percentage of it not staying up after an evade/counter that it would go away before it reached it's full duration.
You do have to use a 2h weapon to get the third eye bonus from seigan
Grants a bonus to Third Eye when using two-handed weapons.
If you can cut the normal time of Thrid Eye recast down with merits then it should be half of whatever that recast is.
So see a couple of things, the new Third Eye stuff is only with Seigan active. You could potentially evade/counter a number of attacks before third eye goes away. Remember you will always evade atleast one attack or multihit attack (AOE do not count third eye will go away and you get hit). Considering the way Third Eye works. I don't think +eva gear would make third eye last any longer, you evade attacks till third eye goes away. Depending on percentages of if third eye gets to stay after evading/countering an attack could be an average of 3 to 6 or 1 to 2 or who knows it isn't implemented yet.
Normal duration on Third eye will be 30 seconds, normal recast will be 1 min. With Seigan active it will be 30 second recast (I imagine less if the merits for third eye will be taken into account when Seigan is active) and unknown duration (actual time third eye stays active will again depend on the % of how often it gets to stay after you evade/counter with it)

[Karinya]

I'm betting percentage, or based on your total level (i.e. a WAR75/SAM37 gains just as much as a SAM75/WAR37). They *want* it to be a big fat boost to WAR/SAM and DRG/SAM. Think about all the traits and abilities those combos are going to have synergizing with each other...

DRK/SAM might not be quite as good given Hasso's effect on recasts, but it's possible that you could drop it to cast, then put it back up again. Of course DRK/SAM still has the hate problems of DRK/anythingbutTHF (worse with Zanshin and Hasso).


Of course, it's a boost to SAM main as well. It's interesting that Hasso is a long-duration ability that seems designed to boost their DoT rather than a WS-oriented short boost. I wonder if we could see a move away from SAM/THF toward SAM/WAR in exp/merit? Hasso seems like it would work better with Berserk than with Sneak Attack (both the haste and acc bonuses basically don't stack with SA, while they positively synergize with Berserk), but again, DDs without /THF can have hate problems.


Not much discussion of Seigan - the recast nerf seems clearly intended to stop it from breaking SAM/NIN, which suggests that the Third Eye buff is rather large. The TE buff (with or without Seigan) will improve SAM/WAR as a first voker for SATA, but will it be large enough to make a Seigan using SAM/WAR a serious contender as a tank?

Seigan-backed Third Eye would have to reduce at least as much damage as a shield *plus* Counter for WAR/SAM tanking to compare to WAR/MNK, and SAM/WAR is another step behind that with poorer selection of defense and enmity gear (which improved riceballs do not totally address IIRC). And even WAR/MNK is hardly taken seriously as a tank at higher levels anymore.

On the other hand, it seems clear that the *intent* of Seigan is to enable either WAR/SAM or SAM/WAR (or both) to be viable exp party tanks, so even if it doesn't accomplish that now, it might be improved to do so later. A bonus to parry chance while Seigan is active would be both appropriate and useful, if it turns out to be too weak as it stands.

[AricLokar]

With Seigan will Third Eye be as useful as :Ni? That is the question. You can recast it every 30 seconds (assuming no merits if they are taken into account with Seigan) You will evade or counter ever attack or multi hit attack until third eye drops (again who knows... no information on what percentage here you start third eye with and how quickly it drops) If you can average a 4 to 6 hit evasion/absorption/counter then I should see no reason why a SAM/WAR couldn't tank.

No information given on casting time so I am going to assume that it is still instant. You can instantly cast Third Eye, every 30 seconds and if evade/absorb/counter 4 to 6 attacks then I would say it is on par with :Ni if not better (minus the issue of AOE). I know many SAMs say they have problems with grabbing agro when subbed with /WAR I don't see how holding aggro should be a problem then.

I really hope that it turns out well it would really be nice to be viable as a tank. Should also give GA warriors the possibility to tank also then. Maybe even Drg (agro maybe be an issue here) in a pinch, I am concerned how it would effect DRK and spells so they might have to stay primarialy offensive. I don't think would see to many PLD subbin SAM either unless they aren't planning on tanking maybe GS and Hasso for some specific situations.

Will probably have to see how things actually turn out before, as most of this is specualtion on how things will work.

[nanatsu]

It could be that the intent of Seigan is to give two handers some of the benefits that dual wielders enjoy with ninjutsu. That is, going very high on the offensive without taking a lot of collateral damage. If they really wanted Seigan to enable WAR/SAM or SAM/WAR to tank I think they would've done more with it. Of course, I think there's a good chance it could be meant as a tank option, depending on how effective it is, but I think it's more likely just meant to even out the playing field vs /nin users. I guess we'll see when the time comes.

[Mog]

How the tables have turned. Thief and samurai are now some of the most wanted jobs, and black mage is left in the dust.

What next? Is puppetmaster going to be overly uber and will every party have a pup in it?

/disgusted

[raidenn]

I thought Thf was always wanted in a party?
As for Blm, they're still wanted.

[tdh]

I'm excited about these changes, but only from a SAM point of view. As WAR and DRK, I don't see myself changing my subs. I'd much rather have NIN for Axes and THF for Great Axe as WAR, and then WAR and THF for DRK as well. But I guess I'll have to do the obligatory testing either way.

I static my SAM with a friend who's leveling THF. So I don't see myself doing any tanking as SAM any time soon. I also static my WAR with a PLD, (Who just so happens to be the same aforementioned THF.) so no tanking going on there either. I'd also be surprised if we suddenly had a group of WARs who suddenly decided to tank again. WAR's had this big push over the past two years or so to go from the reluctant party member, to one of the better melee DDs out there. I know I wouldn't want to suddenly go back to being a tank. If I hadn't found a friend who wanted to level PLD, my WAR would probably still be stuck at Lv.25, and I would never have leveled it past Lv.37.

I just don't see this particular update changing the sub job choices for some jobs. Perhaps other updates will, but for WAR and DRK, I don't see /SAM becoming any more popular than it already is. DRG is the only job I think that will migrate back to /SAM currently.

[Mog]

As for Blm, they're still wanted.

Well, you're half right. Pre-65, blms are great all around. However, due to the new tp-burn update, 65-75 blms are no longer needed for xp parties, due to the fact that people can just TP-burn for much faster xp.

[Lmnop]

whewwww where to start? Let's start with some Clarifications

-Third eye's duration is lowered to 30 seconds, but recast stays @1 min. while in the one "stance," recast is lowered to 30 seconds and in accordance, the duration is lowered. I'm pretty sure that "in accordance" means likewise, meaning the new duration will be 15 seconds. I hope I'm wrong, but don't expect it to increase.

-No Counter. I think there is a very large misunderstanding about this. As it stands, while utsusemi/third eye is up, you cannot counterattack (at least I think. I know you used to be able to but I'm quite sure it was nerfed). I think they may change it so you can counterattack. However, I think what it truely means is that when a Samurai who has the relic legs equipped uses Third Eye, the counterattack effect will not end Third Eye. Level 15 Samurai will not be Counterattacking.

let's look at what concept S-E is trying to fulfill. I'm not going to address tanking just yet.

-We've seen it in these threads FOREVER. The breakdown is basically this: many jobs sub nin for utsusemi to protect them. Jobs without reliance on 2-handed weapons (thief, axe-warrior, ninja obviously, and even RNG) can also get use out of dual wield to increase their DoT (or increase amount of stat buffing weapons equipped for RNG). They may lose damage output from not subbing WAR, but they make most of it up via Dual Wield properties. Jobs like Drk, Sam, and Drg only get damage-avoidance, and no damage boost to compensate.

With these abilities (I already forget their names >.>), jobs using 2-handers gain a damage compensation, and a means of negating damage to some extent. Everyone's always cited how WARs don't lose anything by subbing something other than WAR, now SAMs will have that same advantage. Let's look at some practical application:

Sam/xxx level 40. Sam uses Hasso (I just looked it up haha) once every 5 minutes. He could use it every minute, but why bother? That's just more hate spikes. if he needs to set up TA with a THF, then when pull comes in, he can be using the defensive stance until TA lands, then activate Hasso risk-free of getting hate.

Drk/sam level 75 merit party. As above. The big difference between a Drk/Sam and a Drk/nin is that the Drk/Sam gets to actually deal damage like he should be able to. He has to think a bit, though. Basically, right after WS you activate....(looking up name....) Seigan and pop third eye. You just caused 2 hate spikes from JAs, but you can tank Np with third eye 'til the mob's dead anyway. Pull hate once/minute and you're fine.

Actually, the Third Eye changes are good enough that you may not need Seigan. Just Third Eye and ride it out. Play it smart and this should prove to be a really nice addition to 2-handed melee.

[Althrun]

On tonight's menu we have:
• Egg and bacon
• Egg, sausage and bacon
• Egg and SAM
• Egg, bacon and SAM
• Egg, bacon, sausage and SAM
• SAM, bacon, sausage and SAM
• SAM, egg, SAM, SAM, bacon and SAM
• SAM, sausage, SAM, SAM, SAM, bacon, SAM, tomato and SAM
• SAM, SAM, SAM, egg, and SAM
• SAM, SAM, SAM, SAM, SAM, SAM, baked beans, SAM, SAM, SAM and SAM
• Lobster thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce served in the Provençale manner with shallots and aubergines, garnished with truffle paté, brandy and with a fried egg on top and SAM

[Raydeus]

Well, you're half right. Pre-65, blms are great all around. However, due to the new tp-burn update, 65-75 blms are no longer needed for xp parties, due to the fact that people can just TP-burn for much faster xp.

I don't play to get the most xp/hour but because I enjoy being in a party killing stuff (which usually gives me some nice xp), so I party with BLMs a lot, kupo.

But I guess I'm one of the minority, huh? :wasted:


PS> Depending on the party I get from 6k-12k an hour in regular parties, so I don't see much of a difference besides a few k/hr with burn parties anyway. :thumbsup:

[Raitox]

Awesome buffs yay. But it just begs the question..

SAM or BLU? My second favorite job is almost winning me over, and yet if I do change to SAM I'd be letting down my friend who I'm leveling BLU with.. orz

[Lmnop]

Yea, ok I couldn't resist. I gotta post more.

Tanking applications:

Sam/war may very well be able to tank, but I don't think that's S-E's aim. I truely believe their #1 incentive was to give 2 handers a nin-substitute, as well as busting the monopoly of WARs subbing Nin. Instead of delving into practical sam/war tanking, I'm going to look at war/sam:

A War/Sam could basically spam third eye every 30 and Seigan every 60 just for JA effects (just like our War/mnk days). What I would try to do (and plan on trying to do) is use Hasso whenever Third Eye goes down. Just another JA and get one good Great Axe Swing in before I put up another Seigan + Third Eye. Additionally, I'd always use Hasso before WS (Duh).

A War/sam could never hope to avoid every attack, and thus, defensive equipment would be required. This would encourage good tanks with 2 sets of gear, but would hopefully be more cyclic than war/nin tanking (war/nin gets to be a bit random, and I find myself swapping equip sets like 3 times in 5 seconds because I'm not sure which fits the ever-changing situation best). Damage avoidance should still be high enough to warrant WAR tanking (probably the equivalent of having 2 people on full-time hate-free flash duty). In fact, the combo will probably avoid more hits than a War/nin w/out support. That is to say, with just a slowed mob, no stuns or flashes, no elegy + haste combos, just 6 shadows. It's basically a moot gain, but JAs take much less time than casting spells, so /sam will increase have that damage-advantage during tanking.

As Pure DD, War/sam will be right there with the Drk/Sams.

Nin/sam with Great Katana would probably make a nice soloer, even with the increased recast times. Don't use the stance when casting when possible. If you have shadows, you don't need Seigan.

Oh yea, I think the reason they gave so much to SAM is in part because they noticed what I've been complaining about -- SAMs are losing their individuality. "Masters of TP" means nothing when every job and their sister gets tp almost as fast. As of now, I believe Warriors technically have the slowest tp-gain rate (barring multi-hit weapons) of any melee. Dark Knights who play their Abs-TP smart can potentially get more tp out of that ability than Meditate gives. Blue mages can self-skillchain every 2 minutes to a SAM's 2 hours. and they even get to tack on their own nifty MB. While many BLUs say it's not too impressive, it sure beats Sam/blm. Maybe power-wise it's ok but that's not the point.

@exp/hour: getting the best exp/hour isn't what this game is all about. But you cannot say "PLD are an ok job, just because they can't get the highest exp/hour doesn't make them second rate"... guess what, that would make them second rate. Jobs are supposed to be balanced. Just because 1/100 don't mind getting half the exp doesn't mean the creators shouldn't strive to make it so 80/100 would like to invite them. Any time there's a "best way," the game is broken. This is why we make BLMs more party-friendly, this is why we break /nin monopolies, this is why we even hurt the ones we love (I'm looking at you, Rangers).

[Nogren]

Its good to be a SAM. :thumbsup:

[Celeal]

How about post update level 60 WAR/SAM with Great Axe for Break WS (like Shield Break, Armor Break, etc) and also part of Skillchain (like Raging Rush) with Mediate, as a DD + Debuffer? I think with Double Attack, Zanshin, Store TP, Hasso, WAR/SAM's speed of TP gain maybe able to pull this off in certain PT setup.

For lvl 60 SAM main, it is hard to give up SATA + Tachi: Yukikaze (to end SC and plant hate). Maybe pre-60 or end game merit burn party is great for SAM/WAR.

[Karinya]

Actually, that very setup was popular in the early days of RoZ, before viking axes, genkai 5 and the rise of war/nin. Full Break > Meditate > Raging Rush. In fact, it probably is still good in the 60-73 range, but few people want to level another sub that they'll end up not using after 74 because Utsu:Ni is so godly.

Since then, 2h weapons have gained more TP per hit, and with the new update, WAR/SAM will also gain Zanshin and Hasso. Enough to challenge Utsusemi's stranglehold on all post-74 gameplay? Maybe.

[Celeal]

Today many party build party assuming war/nin, even in the 50 ~ 60 levels. Hopefully the party setup in future will work for /sam...

Last night I tried war/mnk again (at level 59) .. and end up died.

An hour ago, I made my new record: lvl 60 war/thf ate dirt within the 1st 30 seconds of the 1st battle and down-leveled. For me right now any subjob but /nin is cursed .... /cry

[Lmnop]

actually, many parties build with war/nin as early as 24...

I've tried War/sam before. The problem is, meditate is just "60 tp every 3 minutes." Not "an extra WS every fight." I tried this in the early 60s, before Full break, but I'd occasionally pop an armor break or a shield break, but not consistently. I did, however, keep tp with a SAM main and make fragmentations with him.

[Vyuru]

Full Break > Meditate > Raging Rush.

Why don't more warriors skillup their marksmanship and use bolts to build tp? Their marksmanship skill is what, C+? Bolts give 12 tp/hit, and I can fit in 3 of them while delaying my Gaxe only slightly, so assuming all hit, there is a potential of 48 tp/swing of my Gaxe.

Now my warrior is only level 39, and my marksmanship skill kinda sucks, but I have seen other warriors do it and I wonder why more don't.

I'm interested in seeing what this can do for war/sam tanking, but I feel that I may still stick with war/mnk for the all purpose DD/tank role, Seigan is nice, but it seems it's real use is limited to Third Eye, which only affects one hit. It sounds like Hasso will be better than Focus, but I think that Dodge + boost + counter will be a better hate gaining/evasion tool than Third Eye + Seigan.

I think it really depends on how much hate is gained from Seigan and Hasso, if it's equivilant hate to say, Souleater or Warcry, you're tanking for sure, and a rice ball eating samurai might make a very good tank, especially if you wear the gear that enhances the effects of rice balls.

Man, I want Roshi Jinpachi, rice balls look like awesome food.

[Vyuru]

actually, many parties build with war/nin as early as 24...

I don't get that, for a non tanking warrior I would think the best sub would be dragoon for an attack bonus and jump, no other sub really offers anything as nice. War/nin at that level was just kinda meh for me when I tried it.

[Celeal]

Why don't more warriors skillup their marksmanship and use bolts to build tp? Their marksmanship skill is what, C+? Bolts give 12 tp/hit, and I can fit in 3 of them while delaying my Gaxe only slightly, so assuming all hit, there is a potential of 48 tp/swing of my Gaxe.
...
Man, I want Roshi Jinpachi, rice balls look like awesome food.

Besides speed of TP gain, I guess many DD would also focus on DoT too. I mean TP gain of range weapon is great, but how much damage per shot for lvl 50+ WAR? How much range acc+ and range atk+ are needed?

For G.Axe Breaks WS series, some exp. mobs special buff can override the effects of Break WS.

For example, Carb's Scissor Guard would overwrite Armor Break; Beetles evasion boost would overwrite Shield Break.

For Acid Bolt defense down effect, does it overwrites buff like Cocoon or Scissor Guard? Or it just stack with each other (like stack with Defender and Berserk, which sort of cancel out each other)?

[Lmnop]

Why don't more warriors skillup their marksmanship and use bolts to build tp? Their marksmanship skill is what, C+? Bolts give 12 tp/hit, and I can fit in 3 of them while delaying my Gaxe only slightly, so assuming all hit, there is a potential of 48 tp/swing of my Gaxe.
Now my warrior is only level 39, and my marksmanship skill kinda sucks, but I have seen other warriors do it and I wonder why more don't.
I'm interested in seeing what this can do for war/sam tanking, but I feel that I may still stick with war/mnk for the all purpose DD/tank role, Seigan is nice, but it seems it's real use is limited to Third Eye, which only affects one hit. It sounds like Hasso will be better than Focus, but I think that Dodge + boost + counter will be a better hate gaining/evasion tool than Third Eye + Seigan.
I think it really depends on how much hate is gained from Seigan and Hasso, if it's equivilant hate to say, Souleater or Warcry, you're tanking for sure, and a rice ball eating samurai might make a very good tank, especially if you wear the gear that enhances the effects of rice balls.
Man, I want Roshi Jinpachi, rice balls look like awesome food.

It lowers your melee delay significantly... at the very least, the amount of time you spend with your xbow out (which is roughly 2-4 seconds? that x3 and you're looking at a Greataxe swing every 12ish seconds instead of 8.4). Someone else (and I obviously don't mean Armando) would know. That's not the real problem, though.

As Celeal said, DoT is still very important.

Warrior is D rank Marksmanship. Thief is C+. Even Thief misses bolts WAYYYY too much for comfort 40+.

Third Eye is being adjusted so every time someone takes a swing, it has a chance of staying in effect. The chance that you'll lose the effect is based off of how long ago you activated Third Eye, which makes it a decaying ability.

War/nin 24 is retarded. You are right. However, this is the truth about how most parties think. /sarcasm 2-4 War/nin at any level must automatically mean super exp. /sarcasm off

@Celeal: yes, Break WSs can be overridden. It was pretty terrible on S-E's part to make all the basic 3 breaks rank 1 debuffs. I'm not sure, but I think Full Break may be rank 2. What this means (according to Apple Pie some years ago) is that any rank 1 buff will override it. For instance, Cocoon or Metallic Body or that Beetle Evasion Buff. However, rank 1 debuffs will also overwrite these buffs. It's basically whichever effect is more recent wins. As such, Acid Bolts overwrite Cocoon. I served as the party's Dispeller on my THF in CN. You can test this by waiting for a Crawler to use Cocoon, then shooting it with an acid bolt. Then, have a Rdm cast Dispel. You'll see the message "has no effect." This is because the acid bolt dispelled and had full effect.

It is worthy of note that while Shield Break's effect will wear off as soon as the beetle uses the evasion boost move, that if each melee in a 3 melee party lands 1 extra attack because of the evasion boost, you've already potentially outdamaged Sturmwind and thus, anything that Dual Axes could offer.

[Vyuru]

For G.Axe Breaks WS series, some exp. mobs special buff can override the effects of Break WS.


Not only that, but I thought each Break WS had a certain element associated with it and they won't work on mobs of the same element. For example I don't think Full Break works on mobs that drop water crystals, I could be wrong though, most of my warrior knowledge is second hand from the pro warriors in my LS.

For Acid Bolt defense down effect, does it overwrites buff like Cocoon or Scissor Guard?

I think it is rank 1 as well, I think Cocoon or Scissor Guard will overwrite the def down from Acid Bolts. Also, from what I have seen, an Acid Bolt's def down does not work with the def down that my jump gives when I use Spirit Surge + Jump. I don't think that Armor break stacks with Acid Bolt's Def down, but the Dia spells seem to stack with them all.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Well, you're half right. Pre-65, blms are great all around. However, due to the new tp-burn fad, 65-75 blms are no longer needed for xp parties, due to the fact that people can just TP-burn for much faster xp.

Fixed.

But yeah, ToA has been pretty bad for BLM all around.

[Karinya]

Don't worry, everyone still lines up to kiss BLM's ass for Dynamis, Limbus, all HNMs, some Assaults, a bunch of missions, and most BCNMs and ENMs. They're actually *stronger* in exp than they were before, but it's slightly overshadowed by the fact that some other jobs have gained even more from TAU easymode mobs. Cry me a river.

Oh, and they still have the easiest Maat fight in the game, that you can win at level 66 and playing with one hand tied behind your back.

[Lmnop]

I miss a good SC + MB party...

what crystals drop from what cannot be used for determining mob strength, unfortunately. Goblins, for instance, will drop Fire Crystals in one zone and then the same type of gob may drop Lightning Crystals in another. However, they're weak to light.

The Break series are elemental based for their enfeebling effects. Shield Break is tied to Ice (Frost lowers DEX, DEX lowers evasion, shield break lowers evasion, so it's the same element for the same type of effect), Armor Break is Wind (choke >> VIT >> Defense), Weapon Break is Water o0 (Drown >> STR >> attack), and Full Break is errr Earth, because someone told me and everyone in forum-land agrees. Though logically it's because the only unique feature of Full break is it's accuracy-lowering effect, which means (Rasp >> DEX >> Accuracy).

Misconception that I want to dispel: using Breaks against mobs neutral does not mean it's worthless. Shield Break to Gobs works very well. Undead will completely resist it's effect because they're ice-based or strong to ice or whatever. Likewise, Full Break has full effect against most mobs in the game, since most are not actually strong to Earth. I am pretty sure that elemental resistance will only decrease the duration of the debuff, not the potency (Which I believe is fixed).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
None of that has anything to do with Samurai, though.

I hadn't thought about the Riceball effects. Indeed, this update could potentially make them more willing to use riceballs. I always thought it was stupid that S-E would go through so much effort to give Samurai enhanced effects with Riceballs, but turn around and make them shitty. Since they give a good offense and defense, they may indeed get use. As a war, I have to decide what kind of food to use for the situation. And this kinda stumps me for war/sam as I'm not sure how much I'll actually be getting hit. Sam can just eat both AKA riceballs.

I still do not think that a Sam/war will be a complete tank, but I'm not really sure why I feel that way. I was thinking NM tank or duo tank. Imagine doing Guivre with Sam/war + nin/war instead of 2x nin/war. With the best Parrying skill in the game (A+ I thought, FFXIclopedia says A-? someone look into that), decent-to-good evasion (B+), access to decent standard melee defense gear (like the Chain armors) as well as the oriental armors (Rasetsu, Arhat's), and of course, AF with some piddly +enmity on it. Seems pretty nice :O but as was the case with my War/sam concept, you would be about worthless w/out equip swap macros.

Now that I've posted all that, I'm starting to feel that sam tanking can really be pushed. It may end up just an equivalent to mnk/war tanking, but it may end up becoming what WAR has had such a hard time being for these past years -- DD tank.

[Anaki]

Don't worry, everyone still lines up to kiss BLM's ass for Dynamis, Limbus, all HNMs, some Assaults, a bunch of missions, and most BCNMs and ENMs.

ok why cant blms understand that fact. i have seen a buncha blms complain that blm is the weakest job just because in xp at lvl 65-75 they are not GOD
even though tp burns started after manaburns formed at 60 caused a lack of blms didn't it?

[DeadlyToothpick]

I quit about a month or two ago (went to WoW but I still think about FF occasionally lol, miss it sometimes :P), but I just don't see how this will make Sams a better option in xp party as opposed to a War still (at 75). Also I still hate the fact that other jobs can still sub Sam and have every ability we have (and now even zanshin). Lets make Aggresor at 35. Hell lets make refresh at 20 while we're at it.

Also, I know I'm skeptical (hate SE lol) but I keep thinking that this "boost to damage haste blah blah" or whatever it says will be like +4 attack, +1% haste, and...well I forgot if there was something else.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

ok why cant blms understand that fact. i have seen a buncha blms complain that blm is the weakest job just because in xp at lvl 65-75 they are not GOD
even though tp burns started after manaburns formed at 60 caused a lack of blms didn't it?

TP Burns are not some brand new thing, they date all the way back to RoZ content, but only primarly did RNGs ever do them and they were called arrowburns. It was in CoP content where the Manaburn trend erupted. After the RNG nerf, Rampage PTs began.

And not everyone levels BLM to be a little KS30 whore or to cash in on the weakness of others. Some people *gasp*gasp*gasp* play BLM because they like being a BLM. Anyone who's struggled with a melee job pre-ToA certainly knows what BLM is experiencing now.

So telling people about the so-called "pot of gold" at the end of the rainbow is just a little condecending.

Back on topic, the SAM update looks to be a step in the right direction and the other job adjustments are looking good as well. But some of the most important changes still lie with WAR and PLD. Here's hoping they're strong changes.