Crazy Question : Political Chat LS

[Olorin401]

OK I've discussed this idea with a couple people I know and they think it's a decent idea, so I figured I'd try a larger audience.

Outside of the game, I'm very active in politics online and in real life. I'm constantly engaged in conversations about various issues around the country (I live in the United States) and the world. I've been toying with the idea of starting a social linkshell for discussion and debate of issues, political science, and ideologies. My goal would be to increase awareness of the issues, and to educate those of the younger gaming crowd on the workings of their government as they approach legal voting age.

Now, the tough part with this idea is that each person in the discussion brings their own thoughts, ideas and beliefs to the table. Not everyone is going to agree, in fact given the division in the USA alone I know I'd run into someone who'd disagree with me completely. It'll be hard to separate that from the community atmosphere that this game creates, but I think it can be done.

So, there it is. Comments/Questions/Rants anyone?

[Icemage]

Linkshells are at their best when they unite players. Political discussions divide them. Not a good idea.

If you want to discuss politics, you're probably better off doing it on a political forum, or in an IRC chat channel. Doing so in-game doesn't do anything except give other players artificial reasons to dislike you if they don't agree with your views, and I think we can all agree that having fewer friends in-game reduces the quality of your playing experience.


Icemage

[DakAttack]

Politics is a terrible thing.

[Haggai]

Politics is a terrible thing.
Yes, but at least the word fits.

Politics

Poli = Many
Tics = Blood sucking vermin

[Herrisa]

You're assuming that the people invited into the ls will remain calm and logical about somebody disagreeing with their political views. Good luck in that. :lipseal:

I mean, what if somebody on the ls declares your political views poppy-cock and rhetoric, and no matter what you say they still disagree calling you a brown-nosed fan-boi? It's not a good sign of LS health when members are blacklisting each another.

If you do want a political ls, your best bet is to find people who agree with you on most of your views, and disagree on some of the finer points.

[Jocalynn]

I Absolutely love world events and i'd love to be able to discuss them with likeminded people. The best thing to do if you are to create this LS is to set strict ground rules. For example, its alright to disagree but at least be respectful of the other persons views. And No outright disrespect, stuff like that, its all just off the top of my head but i'm sure you could refine it. But every LS i've been in that has set strict ground rules has done quite well in an environment that causes ppl to argue. And if people don't want to follow those ground rules then they have no business being in the LS.

I'd find a debate to be quite invigorating, and maybe to help keep tensions down you could have little events like debates every so often. A more detailed example is this. For the sake of this i'm going to use Herrisa and myself lol.

YOu choose 2 people (me and Herrisa, who disagree with each other on the topic of the day or w/e) and have them debate their cases as to why they feel their right and why the other is wrong, then as it limits this to only 2 members and all the other members must keep quiet while the debate goes on then that eliminates the bickering atm. You could even have members who want to, ask the debaters questions. If you look at this from a perspective of gaining new knowledge in how the world is and how people feel about things then maybe you can give yourself new insight to things you might have once thought were right or cool. Its happened to me lots of times, so, i say make it, and i'll even be your first recruit ^^

Thats my 4 pennies and a nickel

[Olorin401]

You're assuming that the people invited into the ls will remain calm and logical about somebody disagreeing with their political views. Good luck in that. :lipseal:
I mean, what if somebody on the ls declares your political views poppy-cock and rhetoric, and no matter what you say they still disagree calling you a brown-nosed fan-boi? It's not a good sign of LS health when members are blacklisting each another.
If you do want a political ls, your best bet is to find people who agree with you on most of your views, and disagree on some of the finer points.
Actually I was looking for almost the opposite - in my opinion, the debate is what would make the whole thing work. It's not like I'm looking deliberately to "pick fights", but disagreement and the subsequent discussion is worth it.

Though I have to say, if personal insults or flame wars start, people would have their pearls broken.

[Herrisa]

A more detailed example is this. For the sake of this i'm going to use Herrisa and myself lol.
*cracks her knuckles* Bring it on, sister! And no sissy bitch-slaps. Just hair-pulling and fingernail scratching.

Political discussion and political debate are two different things. You might want to make it very clear which one you want your ls to be. A discussion is a group of people talking and responding to each another immediately. A debate is one person expressing their view while everyone stays quiet, then the next person responding/expressing their view while everyone stays quiet.

An idea would to have general political discussion (no flames, personal attacks, etc) most of the time, but set aside a night for a political debate with a set topic and speakers.

You also might need a few mature monitors (pearl sac holders) on who have permission to kick people if they flame or attack a person. Just be certain you can trust them not to kick people who disagree with their views.

[Jocalynn]

isn't that what i said in my last post o.O


*cracks her knuckles* Bring it on, sister! And no sissy bitch-slaps. Just hair-pulling and fingernail scratching.


Oh yeah girl, you don't want none this, i'll yank that Dollar store wig you call hair clean off your head!

[Herrisa]

On no you didn't! At least mine's a wig and not combed over back hair like yours.

Phht.. tahhh









Why do I get the feeling a moderator is going to respond and tell us "Uh-uh, play nice." :D

[Gentoo]

Joining a discussion group about politics is a different animal that dragging politics into a non-political group.

A LS specifically geared for political chat is going to weed out a fair number of people -- face it, talking about real-life political events and philosophies isn't everyones cup o' tea. Talking about such philosophical issues is contentious and there's lots of people that will go very far out of their way to avoid that kind of environment. Gearing the discussion on politics specifically will repel a fair number of people because of apathy, or avoidance of differing views.

I would have to believe the ones that do join are going in expecting to have passionate disscussions, or incite them (a.k.a. trolls).

Icemage brings up a valid point however. Disucssing politics is divisive, and such an LS would mostly likely end up being a discussion only group -- I doubt you could manage much organization with the members accomplish large in-game goals.

Would the LS have a discussion format (i.e. have a discussion topic set in the /lsmes), or just be a random walk thorugh political views? Providing regular structure would foster more of a debate environment, but puts the onus of generating open topics and keeping discussions [reasonably] focused on the shell leaders.

[Haggai]

Cat fight! Woo!

[Olorin401]

On no you didn't! At least mine's a wig and not combed over back hair like yours.
Phht.. tahhh :D
Oh snap!

[Icemage]

I would have to believe the ones that do join are going in expecting to have passionate disscussions, or incite them (a.k.a. trolls).

Icemage brings up a valid point however. Disucssing politics is divisive, and such an LS would mostly likely end up being a discussion only group -- I doubt you could manage much organization with the members accomplish large in-game goals.

Would the LS have a discussion format (i.e. have a discussion topic set in the /lsmes), or just be a random walk thorugh political views? Providing regular structure would foster more of a debate environment, but puts the onus of generating open topics and keeping discussions [reasonably] focused on the shell leaders.

That's the thing though - the only disciplinary weapon available to sackholders is either a temporary kick or a break. That's not really enough tools to provide for moderation (compare to the tools we moderators have here on FFXIOnline, for instance, which run a quite impressive spectrum - much more than most users realize).

It'd be much more productive to set this sort of discussion up as a forum, where people can take their time crafting answers instead of replying in the heat of the moment. Additionally, moderation of such as much easier, as is cross-referencing older threads of conversation (something not possible in LS chat).

I just think the idea of using a linkshell as a serious discussion area is just flawed from the start, especially as there are superior alternatives available (though a point could be made that the Linkshell Community Forum provided by PlayOnline might serve such a purpose well, at which point you could just use the in-game tools as enforcement to kick or ban users who break the rules).


Icemage

[elyssa]

Would I be run out of LS becuase of my socialist views on how government should be run? :p

[Gentoo]

It'd be much more productive to set this sort of discussion up as a forum, where people can take their time crafting answers instead of replying in the heat of the moment.
{trimmed}
I just think the idea of using a linkshell as a serious discussion area is just flawed from the start,

Not that I disagree with you Icemage, but flawed media or not, the notion of a LS dedicated to political discourse is engaging and in my opinion worth experimenting with. Whether in a BBS, chat, or e-mail list -- things are going to get messy.

The goal of this proposed LS is to "increase awareness," through "discussion and debate of issues, political science, and ideologies."

These kinds of discussions happen in tea/coffee houses around the world, without any moderation tools. When I read Olorin's message, this is the analogy I drew, and frankly it's quite appealing.

Now only if I were on Ramuh. I'd love to be part of this experiment.

[Icemage]

I don't think the relation between a coffeehouse discussion and a linkshell applies, though.

In a physical conversation, you have a lot of nuance in terms of body language, conventions of civility, and the controlling factor of a crowd of people around you to curtail excessive displays.

Within a linkshell, there are no rules except those set internally by its members, and when those members disagree, there is no guarantee of civility or respect, and without those, no communication is possible. I've been moderating forums for many years now and the difference between forums with strong moderation and weak moderation is huge (compare FFXIOnline to KillingIfrit for an extreme, but applicable, example).

Can such a linkshell work? Sure, if you can find enough people who can respect the ground rules and not "lose it" in the midst of a heated discussion. Unfortunately, I think that you'd discover that finding more than a handful of people who can do so and be online at the same time would be problematic at best.


Icemage

[Jocalynn]

You guys seem to forget that its not solely a debate LS its a place to talk about current events you've all just been focusing on the debate part you can also talk about whats going on in the world you don't necessarily have to debate the issues at hand.

[Murphie]

Personally, I enjoy my FFXI time to be about FFXI and my discussion/debate time to be separate. LS chat is not the most functional of systems. It's a non-saveable chat log that has a lot of stuff flying through it at any given time (filters permitting). Unless everyone just sits around in a zone somewhere specifically to chat, you'd be hard pressed to keep up with a discussion/debate and still focus on what you're doing in-game.

Forums, coffee-houses, even chat rooms are all better venues. I can't say that an LS devoted to chat/debate wouldn't work, because I'm sure someone could make it work, but I just can't see it being very successful.

[Olorin401]

Would I be run out of LS becuase of my socialist views on how government should be run? :p
Views woldn't be a reason to kick someone from the link.

And honestly.. socialism is a bit of an under-discussed ideology. It could use the exposure.