View Full Version : Global Auction House
Would it be possible (and would there be any harm) to make all of the auction houses connected?
Travel in Vana'diel has basically been rearranged to where your only reasonable home point is in Aht Urhgan now. For the most part I enjoy being in my hometown for crafting and the music, but mostly now because I can't accomplish simple transactions without being completely frustrated with the process. Simply put, many people, including myself, do not want to live in Whitegate. However, since I do craft, I can't possibly set my homepoint in Bastok (or anywhere else for that matter) and expect to take care of all of my crafting needs.
Murphie
08-28-2006, 09:03 PM
This is why I have a mule in every city. But I can kind of see what you're getting at.
This is why I have a mule in every city. But I can kind of see what you're getting at.
Kind of? You shouldn't feel obligated to start 4 new characters because the one you pour your time into isn't capable of operating on its own.
Murphie
08-28-2006, 09:53 PM
I do it for storage and easy access to NPCs. The AH is just a bonus, really.
Caspian
08-28-2006, 10:02 PM
This is one of those issues I'm torn on. It would be nice to be using the main AH wherever I am in Vanadiel. However, I've benefiited many times by checking multiple AH's and finding the item I want for cheaper. Its really a win/loss think imo.
I do it for storage and easy access to NPCs. The AH is just a bonus, really.
You shouldn't feel obligated to start 4 new characters because the one you pour your time into isn't capable of operating on its own.
That statement still applies.
Murphie
08-28-2006, 10:03 PM
Yeah, but it has nothing to do with the auction house at that point.
This is one of those issues I'm torn on. It would be nice to be using the main AH wherever I am in Vanadiel. However, I've benefiited many times by checking multiple AH's and finding the item I want for cheaper. Its really a win/loss think imo.
The same low prices would be available to you from Whitegate if the crafter were allowed to operate where his craft is best supported.
Yeah, but it has nothing to do with the auction house at that point.
Then explain your first and second reply to me again, I'm confused.
Murphie
08-28-2006, 10:06 PM
Not really. Because a global auction house would eliminate price differences in the city based AHs. Everything would cost the same everywhere. So essentially everything would be a the Jeuno AH.
Saying that I shouldn't feel obligated to create 4 additional characters becuase my main isn't able of operating on it's own really has nothing to do with the AH. I created those mules so that I would have quick and easy access to NPCs that are only available in certain cities, or so that I have quick access to regional vendors, no matter who controls the region. I also needed a lot more storage than I had on my main. The ability to check multiple auction houses is nice, but wasn't really the reason for this choice.
Not really. Because a global auction house would eliminate price differences in the city based AHs. Everything would cost the same everywhere. So essentially everything would be a the Jeuno AH.
Saying that I shouldn't feel obligated to create 4 additional characters becuase my main isn't able of operating on it's own really has nothing to do with the AH. I created those mules so that I would have quick and easy access to NPCs that are only available in certain cities, or so that I have quick access to regional vendors, no matter who controls the region. I also needed a lot more storage than I had on my main. The ability to check multiple auction houses is nice, but wasn't really the reason for this choice.
Nearly correct, except that the crafters can provide items at a lower cost from the city their craft is best suited. This way they can provide that previously lower cost to everyone at the same time. What we'd be looking at is the better parts of city AHs combined with the availability of the Jeuno AH.
You still didn't explain your first reply.
Legal Fish
08-28-2006, 10:12 PM
I'm not in support of combining all the AHs, though the starting nation AHs do need some revival. Its a rather unique system that brings difference between towns.
Murphie
08-28-2006, 10:17 PM
Nearly correct, except that the crafters can provide items at a lower cost from the city their craft is best suited. This way they can provide that previously lower cost to everyone at the same time. What we'd be looking at is the better parts of city AHs combined with the availability of the Jeuno AH.
You still didn't explain your first reply.My first reply was because having a mule in every city allows me to benefit from a non-global AH. It wasn't the reason I made the mules, but it's definitely a benefit.
While I see how globalizing would be nice in that it would stabilize prices, it would also remove the ability for people to buy low and sell high on different auction houses.
Zamphire
08-29-2006, 05:03 AM
Nearly correct, except that the crafters can provide items at a lower cost from the city their craft is best suited. This way they can provide that previously lower cost to everyone at the same time. What we'd be looking at is the better parts of city AHs combined with the availability of the Jeuno AH.
You still didn't explain your first reply.
When have you ever seen crafters to actually drop prices when able to? It's been my experiance that everytime the game does something good for crafters, prices just go up. Halloween, Easter events, stackable item changes. I can almost promise you that if we had a global AH, all prices woudl reflect the current Jueno AH system.
Celeal
08-29-2006, 05:58 AM
I think "Global Auction House" will cause a problem for those who farming, fishing and gardening. Let use Cobalt Jellyfish as an example. If Global Auction House is used in this game, player can just buy Cobalt Jellyfish from Guild/NPC and pump it to the Global Auction House. Imagine you are spending time to fish Cobalt Jellyfish for profit. When the price of Cobalt Jellyfish AH exceed the price of NPC, other players can buy from NPC and sell it to AH for profit too, without the need of any fishing skill.
Because a lot of crafters take advantage of Guild and Regional Vendor, a seasonal farmer/fisherman/gardener may avoid selling they stuff on AH where the Guild and Regional Vendor are located, unless they have no choice (unable to travel, lack of mule, etc). The only exception is will the demand exceed the quota of NPC vendor.
"Global Auction House" will negate the purpose of Conquest-Point system <-> Regional Vendors. From a software developer point of view, if Conquest-Point system + Reginal Vendors is implemented, there is no reason to implement a Global Auction House system.
My first reply was because having a mule in every city allows me to benefit from a non-global AH. It wasn't the reason I made the mules, but it's definitely a benefit.
It is also definitely not what you said. I don't know why you even replied with that first comment if you didn't mean what you were saying.
When have you ever seen crafters to actually drop prices when able to? It's been my experiance that everytime the game does something good for crafters, prices just go up. Halloween, Easter events, stackable item changes. I can almost promise you that if we had a global AH, all prices woudl reflect the current Jueno AH system.
Crafters undercut prices on nearly everything consumable to run people out of their markets. You are quoting times that demand for selected items is force spiked, so naturally prices will rise until the supply catches up. There are no ways around that, so those instances are not relevant to the dealings of a global auction house.
It is important both story, and gameplay wise to seperate AHs.
Game play issues have ben discussed. Imperfect information and cost of "foreign goods".
Just like NPC vendors with different prices in different areas.
Story-wise, anyone who has done 3 missions knows the strife between nations.
SE will knock this one down as a big fat, "no" easily.
Zamphire
08-29-2006, 06:21 AM
My above comment was flawed yes. Lets rethink it.
Ok, we get a global ah like you ask. Crafters can now easily access ingrediants to make stuff. Now more and more crafters are making these items, driving the price down. Woot! Good, right? Wrong. The price is so low now because of easily accessable ingrediants that crafters stop making the items because it's simply not worth it anymore to make it. The price starts to rise again because there are fewer and fewer items are available for sale, shooting the price higher then before. After about 3 weeks of insainly high prices and very low availability crafters will catch on and make more. If you're lucky prices will drop again because of the market flooding. But if not you've got high prices from smart crafters not flooding the market. Either case you've got a completly unstable econmy here.
There's nothing wrong with the current AH system. Stop being lazy. Set your home point in your home town. Do your crafting at low prices, take a 5 min airship ride to jueno, sell for great profit. Wow, you spent 10min extra then you would if the AH was right next to you.
Balfree
08-29-2006, 06:22 AM
Bitchy mode go:
How about a menu option that teleports you anywhere you want, in seconds?
Off.
Did it ever cross your mind that theres such a thing as airships,chocobos, spells, and legs, that you can use to travel with? If such a thing existed, barely anyone would roam in towns, they'd be 100% in one spot, much of the uniqueness of each town would be gone, it would make for desolate towns that serve not much purpose other than npcs, not very interactive.. not very immersive.
I seriously dont see the problem of taking an airship to any town, i do it many times, sometimes its all i do in order to craft or whatever, to me its part of the game...
Yea, what's the hurry?
It is important both story, and gameplay wise to seperate AHs.
Game play issues have ben discussed. Imperfect information and cost of "foreign goods".
Just like NPC vendors with different prices in different areas.
Story-wise, anyone who has done 3 missions knows the strife between nations.
SE will knock this one down as a big fat, "no" easily.
Foreign goods just means someone has a mule in the towns delivery boxing items back and forth. I don't really see the distinction made by having them separate, since nobody is actually travelling or otherwise experiencing content to provide "foreign goods."
Story-wise, Jeuno has been neutral. So national strife would play little role in an invitation by Jeuno to larger markets.
Celeal's point would be solid if SE made any reasons for people to care about Conquest again. Too many regions go unclaimed on my server though. However, your reason also implies that a price drop would happen, and isn't this what everyone is looking for? Unless it affects them, of course.
Foreign goods just means someone has a mule in the towns delivery boxing items back and forth. I don't really see the distinction made by having them separate, since nobody is actually travelling or otherwise experiencing content to provide "foreign goods."
Story-wise, Jeuno has been neutral. So national strife would play little role in an invitation by Jeuno to larger markets.
Celeal's point would be solid if SE made any reasons for people to care about Conquest again. Too many regions go unclaimed on my server though. However, your reason also implies that a price drop would happen, and isn't this what everyone is looking for? Unless it affects them, of course.
Do you get free mules? I don't. Do you have multi accounts to log in simutaneously? I don't.
So you're richer, and able to spend more money then I can to get the foreign goods. How's does ths change the fact that you're not suppose to get things cheaply because it's not made natively? You're just that much more willing to fork over "luxury tax".
Jeuno is the best example actually. Nothing is made natively in Jeuno almost, so everything almost always is at a premium. Just like the story. It's imports almost everything.
Non alliance doesn't mean it's cheaper.
And no one is providing "foreign goods?" what are you smoking? That's the basic of basic rules in ffxi AH! Traveling to Bastok to get guild items, then get support, then HQ, then Sell in Jeuno or xxx country where there is high demand for it.
We're all going from one country AH to another to profit...
Heck crafters based their country on their crafts for the sake of Outpost Teleport. That's how important regional goods are.
It's all tied into the story, it's gasp an adventure!
My above comment was flawed yes. Lets rethink it.
Ok, we get a global ah like you ask. Crafters can now easily access ingrediants to make stuff. Now more and more crafters are making these items, driving the price down. Woot! Good, right? Wrong. The price is so low now because of easily accessable ingrediants that crafters stop making the items because it's simply not worth it anymore to make it. The price starts to rise again because there are fewer and fewer items are available for sale, shooting the price higher then before. After about 3 weeks of insainly high prices and very low availability crafters will catch on and make more. If you're lucky prices will drop again because of the market flooding. But if not you've got high prices from smart crafters not flooding the market. Either case you've got a completly unstable econmy here.
There's nothing wrong with the current AH system. Stop being lazy. Set your home point in your home town. Do your crafting at low prices, take a 5 min airship ride to jueno, sell for great profit. Wow, you spent 10min extra then you would if the AH was right next to you.
This comment is flawed also. Supply and demand drives this economy, so saying people would let prices sky rocket just isn't right. There would always be someone to fill the void before prices become "insanely high." You are also forgetting the 30+ minute trip to Aht Urhgan if you have to get there from the Western continent more than once a day, but fixing this problem might be the easiest way to allow setting homepoints in hometowns since people seem to think muling goods through the delivery system makes starting cities immersive. Maybe something like a telepoint would help this - something similar to Yhoator or Altepa. These are 2 islands in the same situation as the Eastern continent, except less people want to go there.
Bitchy mode go:
Not needed, save it for someone else.
Murphie
08-29-2006, 07:03 AM
It is also definitely not what you said. I don't know why you even replied with that first comment if you didn't mean what you were saying.Probably because my replies don't have to live up to your standards. I know what I meant.
Zamphire
08-29-2006, 07:04 AM
This comment is flawed also. Supply and demand drives this economy, so saying people would let prices sky rocket just isn't right. There would always be someone to fill the void before prices become "insanely high." You are also forgetting the 30+ minute trip to Aht Urhgan if you have to get there from the Western continent more than once a day, but fixing this problem might be the easiest way to allow setting homepoints in hometowns since people seem to think muling goods through the delivery system makes starting cities immersive. Maybe something like a telepoint would help this - something similar to Yhoator or Altepa. These are 2 islands in the same situation as the Eastern continent, except less people want to go there.
Not needed, save it for someone else.
Why would you need to go to the near east to sell something?
Murphie
08-29-2006, 07:06 AM
I don't know. Especially if there was a global AH. It's not like people would still hang out anywhere other than Aht Urghan anyway, since it's not the AH that keeps most of them there.
Sabaron
08-29-2006, 07:18 AM
I like the Import/Export system. It allows people from one town to make a small amount of income by shipping items from another. Even if these items are delivery box muled, it is still a task that can be done. I know that I'll generally pay up to a 50% import fee for various goods when I only need a small quantity. Of course, if I'm buying in bulk, I import my own at merchant price. I think that the auction house separation is a very important part of the FFXI economy. It allows four separate economies to operate. Outlying towns have different goods available allowing for them to have locally farmed products available cheaply. Most "materials" in Jeuno are imported. You can see this oftentimes reflected in their price. Just like an RL city that doesn't have a native good, you can make different amounts of money by selling items on different markets. Also, by making these four separate micro-economies, you can have multiple locations to sell your goods so that if some people are flooding Jeuno with a product you are making for money and have driven the price into the crapper (e.g. undercutting to the point of selling at a loss just to "get rid of" product used for skill-up), you can often sell these items in the outer town markets for a profit. Thus, for instance, skillup Iron Ingots in Jeuno going for nil (say 30k per stack) because they're chaff from Hi-levels making Steel and/or skilling people, you can snag a few 30k stacks from Jeuno and sell them in Bastok/San d'Oria to crafters there for 40k which is still cheaper than you can make them unless you're mining ores (the materials for a stack of Iron Ingots at NQ without crystals is about 800 per ore or 38400). You've just made some crafters happy, giving them materials at an excellent price without a boat-ride or muling, and you've made yourself 10k per stack profit even though you'll probably have to wait a little while longer to sell them--If the people who made them want to lose money on them, so be it, I'll be happy to make their money for them.
Separated Auction Houses = Good Thing
Connected Auction Houses = Bad Thing
imo
Omniblast
08-29-2006, 07:23 AM
My above comment was flawed yes. Lets rethink it.
Ok, we get a global ah like you ask. Crafters can now easily access ingrediants to make stuff. Now more and more crafters are making these items, driving the price down. Woot! Good, right? Wrong. The price is so low now because of easily accessable ingrediants that crafters stop making the items because it's simply not worth it anymore to make it. The price starts to rise again because there are fewer and fewer items are available for sale, shooting the price higher then before. After about 3 weeks of insainly high prices and very low availability crafters will catch on and make more. If you're lucky prices will drop again because of the market flooding. But if not you've got high prices from smart crafters not flooding the market. Either case you've got a completly unstable econmy here.
There's nothing wrong with the current AH system. Stop being lazy. Set your home point in your home town. Do your crafting at low prices, take a 5 min airship ride to jueno, sell for great profit. Wow, you spent 10min extra then you would if the AH was right next to you.
I think your thinking is incorrect. That is how the real world economy works, and that is how it should work. Everything goes up and down. I'm not going to spew my nonsense economy in here, but for example. I send my Spider Webs to Windurst, because I can make a bigger profit there than I can in Aht Urghan. If prices were relatively the same throughout the citys, and jeuno AH, then the amount of spider webs would still decrease at a good rate because the crafters have access to more ingredients. With more access available, more people purchase, and they will try to find the best price. If all the cities contain the same price, the sellers would need to compete with each other to drop to the lowest prices.
I farm spider webs when I have nothing else to do, but it doesn't prevent me from doing other things. I just like the aspect of being able to sell to all available markets.
I prefer a centralized area to sell goods. It reaches a wider audience and thus moves goods faster.
I think your thinking is incorrect. That is how the real world economy works, and that is how it should work. Everything goes up and down. I'm not going to spew my nonsense economy in here, but for example. I send my Spider Webs to Windurst, because I can make a bigger profit there than I can in Aht Urghan. If prices were relatively the same throughout the citys, and jeuno AH, then the amount of spider webs would still decrease at a good rate because the crafters have access to more ingredients. With more access available, more people purchase, and they will try to find the best price. If all the cities contain the same price, the sellers would need to compete with each other to drop to the lowest prices.
I farm spider webs when I have nothing else to do, but it doesn't prevent me from doing other things. I just like the aspect of being able to sell to all available markets.
I prefer a centralized area to sell goods. It reaches a wider audience and thus moves goods faster.
That's percisely the reason S-E decided to seperate the AH. They didn't want a what you want.
They wanted restricted goods similar to how a real/fantasy world should work.
The whole idea of Regional Goods, comes from that. Why make it so that it's cheaper to buy pinapples in Kazham, then any other place in the world?
Why make it so that unless your nation controls the region, you can't get that NPC? Why make it so that you can only OP back to your nation?
Why even have seperate guilds in seperate nations? Why do they take holidays.
Celeal
08-29-2006, 08:27 AM
Please calm down everyone, lets try to use reasoning ^^;
This time, I will use gardening as an example. It usually take 3 days (earth time) to grow stuff from gain-seed (such as taru-rice), 6 days (earth time) to grow stuff from fruit-seed.
On the other hand, it is possible for players to buy those "gardening-products" from NPC within 5 minutes to 1 hour (Guild-shop close/holiday, wait for next game day). There are players in this game who actually import goods from NPC and export to Auction House.
However, thanks to the localized Auction House, the low supply of NPC and the time travel between cities (or the time to use delivery box between mules), Gardeners can avoid selling their products in location where guild/regional-vendor is found.
If this game is using a Global Auction House system, will players grow stuff from gardening (take days or weeks)? Or will players go camp NPC vendors (take miuntes to an hour)?
A real life example is the Regional Code in DVDs. North America uses Region 1, Japan Region 2, most Asian countries use Region 3, etc. If your DVD player is Region 1 only, then it can only play Region 1 DVD. The reason for the "region-code" is to discourage trader to import "cheap" DVDs from other countries and sell them at location where the price is high (deal to difference in standard of living, taxes, etc). For example, DVD movies in Hong Kong and China is very cheap, compare to U.S.
*Added*
The current "Nationalized Auction House" is like a check and balance system: If an item of one AH is high, buyers can go to other AH and seek for lower price. On the other hand, if price of an item is low in one AH, sellers can go to other AH to sell their product at a higher price. Global Auction House system will take away such function.
Probably because my replies don't have to live up to your standards. I know what I meant.
I think people would agree that these are not just my standards. You tried playing every angle, in this case conflicting with your previous, until you brought your replies to be irrelevant to the OP. I'm not sure this is good form on any forums (i.e. not just my standards). Debate is healthy - there were a few good issues brought up on the subject, but I'm not sure what you were trying to prove.
Balfree
08-29-2006, 11:24 AM
Bitchy mode go:
Bitchy mode means im being a bastard, and that is my way to let you know that i am aware.
Off..
yea, im totally against this anyway
Bitchy mode go:
Bitchy mode means im being a bastard, and that is my way to let you know that i am aware.
Off..
Awesome. Everyone <3s bitchy mods.
Legal Fish
08-29-2006, 01:34 PM
You can't change something that both setting and the global market already built itself on. In Vana'diel, there are four markets. If there was only one market, then the game wouldn't be set in Vana'diel. This would be like asking SE to turn Trion into a woman. Vana'diel has 4 markets.
Murphie
08-29-2006, 06:04 PM
I think people would agree that these are not just my standards. You tried playing every angle, in this case conflicting with your previous, until you brought your replies to be irrelevant to the OP. I'm not sure this is good form on any forums (i.e. not just my standards). Debate is healthy - there were a few good issues brought up on the subject, but I'm not sure what you were trying to prove.Ok, what? I haven't changed my position. If you can't understand my position, that's another thing altogether. If you're not able to debate this issue without getting personal, then I don't really see a point in continuing.
Once again, for those of us who didn't understand:
I don't think that we need a global AH. I'm perfectly happy with the system that currently exists. I have extra mules (5 actually, not 4) in various cities, and separate AH systems allow me to use those mules to further my own finances. I'm sure that I'm not alone in this. The separate AH system has been in place since the game was created. I'm sure there was a reason for that. It seems to work pretty well, in that most lower level and crafting related gear is easily found on the regional auction houses, and just about anything can be found on the Jueno/Tavnazia/Aht Urghan AH. Works for me. Works for most everyone else. I don't see a reason to change it.
There isn't any reason to have a global AH except for the fact that you want one. Unless you can provide a more concrete and convincing reason, I'm going to continue to disagree with you.
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