BLM Subjob Question

[Marakii]

So I leveled to 18 over weekend and soon will be starting the subjob quest.

I was originally thinking WHM subjob which I am still leaning towards. However, although I lose healing spells and Blink, whats the downside to going with Summoner as subjob?

If I am not mistaken, you get great MP boost, and with the summon spells, increased damage output. Seems you would be a killing machine.

Is that viable? Are there any downsides to this I am overlooking? Keep in mind, I am brand new to this game :)

Double Post Edited:
Oh, and the teleport spells I would lose, which is not only convenient, but a good money maker I hear.

[Simatumma]

So I leveled to 18 over weekend and soon will be starting the subjob quest.

I was originally thinking WHM subjob which I am still leaning towards. However, although I lose healing spells and Blink, whats the downside to going with Summoner as subjob?

If I am not mistaken, you get great MP boost, and with the summon spells, increased damage output. Seems you would be a killing machine.

Is that viable? Are there any downsides to this I am overlooking? Keep in mind, I am brand new to this game :)

Double Post Edited:
Oh, and the teleport spells I would lose, which is not only convenient, but a good money maker I hear.

SMN is great because of increased INT bigger mana pool and auto-refresh, the down sides are: 1. sometimes you might need to toss a heal or two when the main healer is out of mana. 2. blink and stoneskin, to me can't be replaced. and 3. you lose the teleports and raise which you can only get with a WHM sub.

Also pulling your summons out as a BLM wouldn't be a good idea unless it's maybe for one of their buffs which would make me assume you want all the summons and unless you are 60-70+ then they are going to be VERY expensive to get, and there is also the problem of how are you going to lvl to 30 to unlock SMN if you don't have a sub?

Personally I hate WHM as alot of people do, so I went with RDM as my sub which has it's advantages too... Lower mana pool (as a taru i don't worry) but more INT, Fast Cast (great for MB timing and getting that emergency heal off), and some fun spells that WHM doesn't get ^^

[Mog]

SMN is great because of increased INT bigger mana pool and auto-refresh, the down sides are: 1. sometimes you might need to toss a heal or two when the main healer is out of mana. 2. blink and stoneskin, to me can't be replaced. and 3. you lose the teleports and raise which you can only get with a WHM sub.^^

God no. Never level blm with smn sub. Just don't do it. Besides the increased mp pool, it does absolutely nothing that complements your main job. Moreover, mp SHOULD NOT be an issue if you're in a decent party. You're better off subbing RDM for intelligence or whm for a little more mp and more curative spells.

P.S.

Use the search function. This has been discussed a bajillion times and these /whm vs /rdm threads always go in circles.

[Marakii]

God no. Never level blm with smn sub. Just don't do it. Besides the increased mp pool, it does absolutely nothing that complements your main job. Moreover, mp SHOULD NOT be an issue if you're in a decent party. You're better off subbing RDM for intelligence or whm for a little more mp and more curative spells.

P.S.

Use the search function. This has been discussed a bajillion times and these /whm vs /rdm threads always go in circles.

Appreciate both replies (although this was to discuss SUM, not RDM vs. WHM as you stated). Figured some people would have new thoughts on SUM subjob.

But both of your responses madeit easier forme to stick with orginal plan and sub WHM. THanks guys for replying!

[Sabaron]

I've used SMN sub for White Mage. WHM nukes are lackluster and only useful for bursting (which I never do as WHM anyway unless there's a nice Fusion Skillchain running. With Black Mage, there's just too much lost for the gains in MP. I rarely run out of mp because I don't actually stand up to attack until at least 15 seconds after the first Provoke and sometimes just after second provoke depending on party configuration.

Having WHM sub allows you to -na people, backup cure and let the WHM rest. Taking the pressure off the WHM's mana pool is a good thing, because the WHM needs to be at a certain level to chain monsters. The longer you can keep the WHM in a good mana range, the better. BLM can easily rest for a couple of ticks during a fight, whereas a WHM gets interrupted due to curing more frequently when they try to do so.

RDM sub for Fast Cast/Int
WHM sub for better Cures

These are the only two I've ever seen used, and the only two I'd recommend. Optimally, as a mage, you'll be levelling all three basic mage classes for maximum versatility.

If you're having mana problems I recommend trying the following:

Search the forums for the term: Pineapple Juice, I've gone into some detail regarding it in several places.

Instead of using Rolanberry Pie (unless you're galka/elvaan), try an apple or melon pie +1--it increases your +MPh which is more important than having a high top end. Generally, you won't ever have a full mana bar as a mage in an XP party if you're chaining quickly anyway, so what's the point of boosting it so high?

Get a Pilgrim's Wand from Nunyenunc in West Sarutabaruta, +2MPh. This wand will be a staple in your inventory until you get your Dark/Pluto's Staff at 51st and it's usable as early as 10th level--well worth the NM camping imo.


[EDIT: Strike, corrected by information below]
A little tip for skilling up Dark: An astral ring or any item that increases your mp while decreasing your hp can be swapped in and out to give you a hit-point buffer to cast Drain with--it's not much, but anything is better than throwing Bio and p/o'ing the RDM/other PT members when you overwrite Dia or wasting mp for 0 damage.
[EDIT: End Strike]

[Drain apparently simply does not display it's damage when you cast it; it only displays the amount of hp gained from the attack, see posts by Icemage/Mog].

I would still say don't throw Bio. Bio decreases the damage the monster puts out whereas Dia increases the damage your melees put out. There are only very rare circumstances under which Bio is better. One is if you're working in a malformed party (for some unknown insane reason) and you have a meat tank (e.g. Galka Monk), severely uncontrolled hate, or an underarmored tank that keeps taking massive hits. Chances are that under these circumstances, Bio won't save you, but it might help. A Bio overwrites a Dia of the same tier. Overwriting Dia's effect makes the fight take longer. I've never been in a party that preferred Bio to Dia and every time I ask a mage why he's casting it the answer is invariably:

"I'm trying to skill-up Dark"

Skill up Dark with Drain/Aspir... not Bio.

[neighbortaru]

after a certain point, more MP is pointless. MP recovery becomes more and more important as you try to complete the higher XP chains.

futhermore /smn over /rdm is just 1 INT more, big freaking whopee-doo.

what you loose out on is the increased flexibility of having the /whm or /rdm spells and abilities available.

/smn might have it's place in certain instances (mana-burn comes to mind) but for 90% of the time, it's just no.

[Icemage]

As mentioned above, /SMN is just not a good sub. The extra MP isn't materially useful, and losing the other support spells from /WHM or /RDM really hurts in an XP party setting.

---

One thing to correct is that you do NOT need to be damaged to successfully cast Drain. The Drain spell always deals its damage regardless of whether you have damage yourself or not; in fact, from an XP standpoint, it's safer to cast Drain when you're full instead of when you're hurt, since you accumulate less enmity that way (you just get the enmity from damage, as opposed to the damage PLUS the healing effect).


Icemage

[Mog]

One thing to correct is that you do NOT need to be damaged to successfully cast Drain. The Drain spell always deals its damage regardless of whether you have damage yourself or not; in fact, from an XP standpoint, it's safer to cast Drain when you're full instead of when you're hurt, since you accumulate less enmity that way (you just get the enmity from damage, as opposed to the damage PLUS the healing effect).


Icemage

And to add something, the amount you see on the chat screen does not reflect the amount drained from the mob. If you were at full health and you see "Vysey casts Drain for 0 points of damage", this does not mean that it was hit for 0 points.

[Sabaron]

I see. Does it not display the damage? The message I get is something like "0 hp drained from xxx. Corrected in post.

[Mog]

I see. Does it not display the damage? The message I get is something like "0 hp drained from xxx. Corrected in post.

No. It only displays the amount you get from the mob. More than often, the amount you hit the enemy for is greater than the amount you receive.

[Icemage]

Walk outside a starting town and cast Drain on a level 0 enemy like a Tiny Mandragora while at full HP. It will still fall over dead. :)

The display in the chat window only shows the amount of HP healed by Drain (which is why the default text color is that light blue healing text instead of the normal red damage text). It doesn't indicate the amount of damage you dealt unless you happened to have more damage than it managed to heal.


Icemage

[Marakii]

Awesome info guys.

Think Ill lvl and Sub WHM to start, then lvl RDM or THF to be able to swap out among them depending on farming, XPing, and etc.

[Simatumma]

God no. Never level blm with smn sub. Just don't do it. Besides the increased mp pool, it does absolutely nothing that complements your main job. Moreover, mp SHOULD NOT be an issue if you're in a decent party. You're better off subbing RDM for intelligence or whm for a little more mp and more curative spells.

P.S.

Use the search function. This has been discussed a bajillion times and these /whm vs /rdm threads always go in circles.

I wasn't saying it was a good idea at all ^^; i was saying that it does have some pluses but they mean nothing compared to a /whm or /rdm sub. Also pointing out that if he plans to use the summons as a BLM/SMN they will 1 be gimp and 2 be a complete waste of mana besides the occational buff while you're bored and others are AFK.

Edit: a quick question of my own is when fighting something like crabs that spam shell on themselves then how do you handle it when the RDM or BRD doesn't dispel it? I've been yelled at for refusing to waste my mana on a shelled mob and was just curious if i'm too hard headed or if i really shouldn't be wasting my mana.

[FFVIIMidgar]

I should weigh out my options more carefully. I got useful info from you guys.

[Marakii]

BLM currently at lvl 18. If I lvl WHM to 20, then switch main back to BLM and set WHM as sub, that would make WHM lvl 9. So I would be at BLM lvl 18 and WHM down to 9. In effect, I would be losing those additional 11 lvls? Or as I lvl BLM, will I gain those levels back along the way without switching back to WHM main?

They told me to stick with WHM now to 20, But if I am using BLM as main in long run and switch back to BLM I would lose lvls 10-20. Doesnt make sense to me.

What I was going to do:

I was going to lvl WHM to 9, set it as subjob, take BLM lvl 18 to lvl 30, switch main to whm and get to lvl 15, then switch back to BLM with WHM sub. At this point I would be BLM 30 and WHM 15. Rinse and repeat every 10 lvls (so I can lvl sub another 5 lvls every time)

So which way is correct? I just dont understand why I would lvl WHM past BLM when ultimately I am using BLM as main job and will lose those lvls on WHM when I switch back to BLM.

Im so confused.... lol

[neighbortaru]

no, you don't loose the levels, think of it as being capped. as your WHM gets higher, your cap on BLM will as well (the cap is always your main level/2).

the reason you should level WHM to 20 first is because 1) it'll keep you set until 40 BLM 2) you don't want to be running back to Valkurm after you've planted yourself in Jueno (wastes a lot of time) 3) you can reuse the same set of armor so you don't have to buy new ones or keep them around and take up MH space

[Marakii]

Ah, so it does raise along with your main job as long you had lvled it already.

So one other scenario if you dont mind :)

-Lvl WHM to 20, then switch back to BLM as main and WHM as sub. Now 18 BLM/9 WHM

-Lvl BLM to 40, as I go, I automatically gain a lvl on WHM for every 2 on BLM since originally lvld it.

-At BLM 40/ WHM 20, I switch WHM to main and BLM as sub to lvl WHM, now being 20 WHM/ 10 BLM.

-Once I have WHM to 30, if I switch back to BLM as main, it will jump back up to lvl 40 from 10? Or do you never set your main as your subjob?

[neighbortaru]

yes, that will work too.

remember, you don't loose levels after you level the job.

[Marakii]

Sweet, thanks! That will allow me to use my BLM spells as I am lvling WHM.

[Simatumma]

Sweet, thanks! That will allow me to use my BLM spells as I am lvling WHM.

The best way to look at it is to lvl your BLM to 20 then just eat WHM all in one shot to get it over with and lvl it to 37 (half of 75) then you can lvl your BLM all the way up to 75 without touching WHM ever again which for some people is too soon.

As for using BLM spells as a WHM it's usually not a good idea besides the occasional magic burst. You'll find if you try to nuke as a WHM that you won't do even half the damage you do as a BLM unless you get the bonus from the magic burst effect.

[Marakii]

Gotcha. I was thinking just for the lower soloing levels. Dont know if I can lvl WHM all the way to 37 in one shot. Im interested in the benefits of it, but dont know about full time on it without switching back to BLM for a bit.

The other is spell cost. I only get to play about 2 times a week for a few hours each time, so trying to get Gil and lvl is a pain. However, I might get WHM to 20, then BLM to 40 with WHM sub.

Then.... lvl THF to at least 15 (Treasuer Hunter?) so I can use the BLM/THF combo for farming and take WHM from 20-37 to round things out before taking BLM from 40 to 75.

Wow, ok, I think I finally got it. Its tough starting this game out from scratch and trying to learn everything :) As soon as I read on some things, theres other things I have to understand lol. I have yet to use any of my BLM Job Abilities :)

[Sabaron]

Most spells aren't that expensive. If you can't afford Erase, however, you'll need to either tough it out and apologize to people for not having it or get another job to 40 and do BCNMs for the drop or do a bunch of Wings of Fury and hawk the Astral Rings or try a few Treasure & Tribulations and hope you don't get the mimic. BCNM is a relatively quick way to get gil, but it's hit or miss. You might have to (shudder) farm.

[Simatumma]

Wow, ok, I think I finally got it. Its tough starting this game out from scratch and trying to learn everything :) As soon as I read on some things, theres other things I have to understand lol. I have yet to use any of my BLM Job Abilities :)

We've all been there and can remember how it was to start out, you though are quite lucky in the fact that you can come and ask questions knowing others have done it before you. When alot of us started the only ones to learn from all spoke japanese.
As for constantly having to learn new things well that just comes with the job, I've always loved this job because it requires some work and a bit of research to do it the right way. You have to know the elements to Skillchains so you can magic burst and later on you won't do any damage unless you know the weaknesses of the mobs you're fighting. Also there are times when the melee are just too freaking lazy to look up their own skill chain so having a chart ready to go and knowing how to read it is nice too. ^^