Would you think about adding in a camp board?

[Zamphire]

Now, first off this is only an idea I've thought about and havn't really gone over and over with so I'm sure there are problems with it. It was two parts.

First, something I'd like to see is maybe a searchable in game message board where leaders of a party in a zone can post what camp they are at, something like "Helm Beetles <pos>" that others players can search from any zone with the search function. And if the party leader zones out of the zone, or his party disbandes, his camp message is automaticaly taken off the board. I believe this would make it alot easier for people looking for a camp to find one. I personally hate running from jueno to Cape Terrigan just to find out all the camps are taken and I think this would be a great addition to the game.

Secondly, and this one is alot more far fetched and needs more work. Most of the zones already have well established camp areas. Would you think about putting a sign post type thing at most of the well established camp areas, so that the leader of a party can click on it and register the monsters in that area as that groups target only. In order to claim a camp you have to meet certain requirments. You have to kill a monster within 15min, if you dont you lose claim to the camp, this also goes between kills. This will give groups, as well as soloers a chance at the party. If the leader agrees, another group / soloer can dual camp an area with the current claimers permission. Or even put two - three signs at the camps that can support more than one party. I think this would really help with alot of camp problems. I know all camps are designated by players, that's why I said the well established ones. People could still be free to go camp at no established ones.

Like I said, I know it needs alot of work, but I think it's a start of a good idea.

[Zamphire]

so no one's gonna say yay or nay to my idea? that sucks :P

[Gentoo]

so no one's gonna say yay or nay to my idea? that sucks.

Only waiting a couple hours is a tad over zealous. Give your post 24 hours.

But since you asked.

The biggest issue I see here is that your post breaks the rules laid out in
the thread: IMPORTANT: Read BEFORE posting! Threads that don't follow will be deleted! (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/ask.squareenix.questions/59254-important.read.before.posting.threads.dont.follow. will.deleted.html)

In that stickied thread it states: "please post ONE QUESTION PER THREAD ONLY!"

(not trying to be a curmudgeon, but it could be that folks are waiting around for your thread to disappear)

Now, first off this is only an idea I've thought about and havn't really gone over and over with so I'm sure there are problems with it. It was two parts... {snippage} I personally hate running from jueno to Cape Terrigan just to find out all the camps are taken and I think this would be a great addition to the game.

Basically this what '/sea all "Area"' does for you. You can count the number of party leaders in your level range at a particular zone and have a pretty good idea of how much competition is there.

If no one is there when you search, and you show up to find that all the camp sites have been taken during your trip there, you've encountered a race condition, and a board isn't going to solve this issue.

Secondly, and this one is alot more far fetched and needs more work. Most of the zones already have well established camp areas. Would you think about putting a sign post type thing at most of the well established camp areas, so that the leader of a party can click on it and register the monsters in that area as that groups target only. In order to claim a camp you have to meet certain requirments. You have to kill a monster within 15min, if you dont you lose claim to the camp, this also goes between kills. This will give groups, as well as soloers a chance at the party. If the leader agrees, another group / soloer can dual camp an area with the current claimers permission. Or even put two - three signs at the camps that can support more than one party. I think this would really help with alot of camp problems. I know all camps are designated by players, that's why I said the well established ones. People could still be free to go camp at no established ones..

This is essentially an instanced dungeon with more headaches, and at first blush would seem to be a huge development effort. Perhaps you'd see something like this show up in a new MMOG, but in FFXI there's pretty much a snowballs chance in hades for this to ever happen.

Also I'm not sure what the camp problem you're trying to solve? Overcrowding? There is usally more than one zone that can handle XP parties. It's up to the party leader to pick an appropriate location before setting out.

[Zamphire]

I did read the post, and I only have one question, that had two parts.

You can do /sea area yes, and that's what you have to use now. But i'd like to see a way to display a camp. Take Crawlers nest for instance. For some reason, alot of people like to just stick to crawlers instead of the beetles, you'll have 3 groups in your level range in there killing crawlers leavin beeltes wide open. KRT, sometimes you'll have one group killing at Vrtra, one at big loop, one at secret room, sometimes you'll only have two groups, but you dont know which camp they're at. Yes, you can ask them, but it'd be easier just to search. Then there's langauage barriers, and sometimes people just being ass holes and ignoring you. I know on my server, 85% of the time, if your a NA player trying to talk to a JP player, forget it, you wont get a response. Hell, even sky, the exp areas are all one big zone, but the camps are FAR spread out. Wouldn't you like to know if someone is at Ulli camp before you run all the way there?

No, the problem I'm trying to fix is stealing camps. At least on my server we have a big problem with ass holes comming and camping ontop of you, even if you've been at a camp for hours, and it can't support more than one party reliably. They'll come in, park infront of you, and start pulling the same mobs as you.

It really shouldn't be that hard, not with their current claiming system. Maybe just make it so mobs can be claimed, but not attack, so that all the mobs your camping will be claimed for your party, but not attack until acted apon.

[Murphie]

It really shouldn't be that hard, not with their current claiming system. Maybe just make it so mobs can be claimed, but not attack, so that all the mobs your camping will be claimed for your party, but not attack until acted apon.I see where you're going with this, but seriously, SE would never ever implement this idea. It goes against the entire structure of the game and exp camps to have one party claim every mob in the area as theirs.

[Ziero]

Then people could go in and 'claim' camps without doing anything. Yeah you said they'd could make a rule to kill a mob every XX number of minutes, but people would then kill the bare minimum just to stay and screw everyone else over.

It's an over complicated technical solution, with many flaws, to a player created problem.

[Jethreal]

hmm, that'd be nice, I could say zone in Giddeus claim all the bees i the zone and proceed to farm beehive chips with my Thf31, wait wouldn't that would be bad for the others in the area??

the current claim system seems to make for a more balanced system, even if you could only claim a camps pops you would still have to deal with NM pops (ie Hoo Mjoo)

[Zamphire]

Well, I said the more popular exp camps, not farming camps or nm camps.

Yea, you'd have people takeing advantage of it, but you have people being ass holes as it is now. At least maybe a GM might do something if you can tell they're just abusing the system.

[Jethreal]

So, to clarify, you're looking for a coding change that would apply to some pop locations, but not to others. And these specific locations would be determined by... claim popularity? player survey? It seems (to me) like it would be a coding nightmare.

only my 2 cents though,

[kuu]

no

Knowing camps is a Skill not a feature.

Whether they decide to share or not shouldn't be a requirement.

[Zamphire]

Alright, i guess no one really has some helpful insight on the idea. So how do you propose fixing, or helping the problem of people stealing camps, or camping ontop of one another.

And this wouldn't take the skill out of it. Like I said, the most popular ones. Knowing the really good, rarely used ones, is still a good skill to have.

And they watch players all the time, i'm sure they know where we tend to camp.

[ikkleste]

roving campers, beastmasters, other soloers, farmers,

the fact that there is competition for mobs means that everyone gets a chance, the better you are at whatever the greater share you get yes, but just because you want exp shouldn't shut me out of farming, we should either work out a deal, or compete for mobs.

[Zamphire]

roving campers, beastmasters, other soloers, farmers,

the fact that there is competition for mobs means that everyone gets a chance, the better you are at whatever the greater share you get yes, but just because you want exp shouldn't shut me out of farming, we should either work out a deal, or compete for mobs.

Working out a deal is what i was trying to acomplish. Notice i didn't limit it to people with a party only, so soloers and beastmasters get a fair share of claiming camps as well. And I still dont see the problem with people farming, who really farms off common exp mobs.

[Gentoo]

I did read the post, and I only have one question, that had two parts.

I see... I read your post as two different questions -- sorry about that.

It really shouldn't be that hard, not with their current claiming system. Maybe just make it so mobs can be claimed, but not attack, so that all the mobs your camping will be claimed for your party, but not attack until acted apon.
Since I don't have SE's source code sitting in front of me, I can't make any concrete decisions about how hard the changes would be. As a developer, I can make a guesstimate, and as a player I can go off SE's history of making changes to the game without inflicting collateral damage.

My best guess disagree's with your guess at the difficulty level of such a change.

Yes, on Shiva we have dorks that show up and camp right on top other parties -- even in areas that cannot support more than one party. If the situation cannot be resolved amicably there are other solutions (e.g. attrition)

Alright, i guess no one really has some helpful insight on the idea.
That's not the case. The helpful insight you've been handed (thus far) is that your idea isn't tenable. The motives behind your idea are definitely good, and you're idea isn't completely without merit: Dungeons & Dragons Online has implimented instanced dungeons.

I completely share your desire to avoid having to deal with the players that exhibit opprobrious conduct, but it's an MMOG, and no matter what solutions you have in place, you'll never escape them.
( corollary: you make something idiot proof, and the world will breed better idiots )

I tend to a agree with Ziero. The solution you've presented is too complicated, and too easily exploited. At the same time, the problem you're trying to solve has other viable solutions.

[Celeal]

From my experience, whenever the zone/area/camp has too much parties hunting for the same mobs, usually the parties race with each other, on who is pulling the mob faster, and killing the mob faster, etc. To keep the xp chain flow, have multiple pullers, puller whatever mobs that pop:

1) even if the mob is slightly below the party level (Tough).
2) over-hunt a little bit with (IT+).
3) mobs with nasty special moves that is not a favorite choice for xp parties.

Downtime is better than no exp. Keep the xp flowing.

Other situation is if other party arrives and camp on top of your party. I found that situation is rare in the level 40s and above, which players should know the FFXI party basic at that level. There is no advantage to camp on top of other party:

1) It creates lag.
2) Exp. will sucks for both parties.

It is a lose-lose situation. Usually a polite /tell and ask tell to leave should work. If /tell fails, then my suggestion is try to pull/kill mobs faster then other party. From my experience, the party which pull/kill slower usually leave the camp, disband, or it is too sucks to be a threat at all.

[Zamphire]

From my experience, whenever the zone/area/camp has too much parties hunting for the same mobs, usually the parties race with each other, on who is pulling the mob faster, and killing the mob faster, etc. To keep the xp chain flow, have multiple pullers, puller whatever mobs that pop:

1) even if the mob is slightly below the party level (Tough).
2) over-hunt a little bit with (IT+).
3) mobs with nasty special moves that is not a favorite choice for xp parties.

Downtime is better than no exp. Keep the xp flowing.

Other situation is if other party arrives and camp on top of your party. I found that situation is rare in the level 40s and above, which players should know the FFXI party basic at that level. There is no advantage to camp on top of other party:

1) It creates lag.
2) Exp. will sucks for both parties.

It is a lose-lose situation. Usually a polite /tell and ask tell to leave should work. If /tell fails, then my suggestion is try to pull/kill mobs faster then other party. From my experience, the party which pull/kill slower usually leave the camp, disband, or it is too sucks to be a threat at all.

That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I'd like to see something happen where this doesn't have to be done. To me this is a waist of time on both parties, and is nothing but frustrating.

[Hearshot]

I highly doubt Gilseller xp parties would agree to participate either.

It would be like the Auto-Party lfg thing, its there but no one cares to use it... or knows what its for anyway.

Or Mentor icon, most people who use that aren't really fit to be mentors anyway. Don't get offended, i didn't say "all". >.>;

When you start placing so much responsibility in the hands of the player, it doesn't work out as you wish. There are too many jackholes playing.

simple "/sea (Area)" count how many parties your lvl... factor in how many parties can xp there at once... see if you fit in that equation and act accordingly. This takes 2 minutes.

[Zamphire]

I highly doubt Gilseller xp parties would agree to participate either.

It would be like the Auto-Party lfg thing, its there but no one cares to use it... or knows what its for anyway.

Or Mentor icon, most people who use that aren't really fit to be mentors anyway. Don't get offended, i didn't say "all". >.>;

When you start placing so much responsibility in the hands of the player, it doesn't work out as you wish. There are too many jackholes playing.

simple "/sea (Area)" count how many parties your lvl... factor in how many parties can xp there at once... see if you fit in that equation and act accordingly. This takes 2 minutes.

Ok, this still doesn't work for sky, or even crawlers next at some points, or garliage citidale but thats just off the top of my head but ok, my idea doesn't work.

So what do you think we should do about ass holes stealing camps?

[nazlfrag]

The ingame search function will tell you the parties in the area, their level range and who the leaders are. The rest is up to you. Preperation should avoid you trying to camp on top of someone. If you can't solve it through tells, use multiple pullers as outlined above, or use a different camp.

The claim system is a delicate balance that is easily upset by your suggestions, not to mention that the already overcrowded because they are popular campsites will now have a big sign there, making them even more popular and overcrowded. There are dozens of zones to level in that are usually dead quiet, something to encourage people to these zones is what is needed.

I suggest a billboard, with a map of Vana'diel similar to the Conquest map, where people could post campsites, in a fixed map-coordinate, level range, target mob format. Anyone could then look there for campsite information. I am not suggesting any sort of claim system, just a knowledge sharing in the community. Crawlers nest full? Don't know where to go? Now you could look it up!

Thing is, this exists already outside the game in numerous user created campsite guides. An ingame feature would be nice, but redundant. Still, something needs to be done to promote alternate campsites. It's up to the userbase though, not Square - they gave us more than enough campsites. It's us who choose to camp on top of each other.

[kuu]

The ingame search function will tell you the parties in the area, their level range and who the leaders are. The rest is up to you. Preperation should avoid you trying to camp on top of someone. If you can't solve it through tells, use multiple pullers as outlined above, or use a different camp.

The claim system is a delicate balance that is easily upset by your suggestions, not to mention that the already overcrowded because they are popular campsites will now have a big sign there, making them even more popular and overcrowded. There are dozens of zones to level in that are usually dead quiet, something to encourage people to these zones is what is needed.

I suggest a billboard, with a map of Vana'diel similar to the Conquest map, where people could post campsites, in a fixed map-coordinate, level range, target mob format. Anyone could then look there for campsite information. I am not suggesting any sort of claim system, just a knowledge sharing in the community. Crawlers nest full? Don't know where to go? Now you could look it up!

Thing is, this exists already outside the game in numerous user created campsite guides. An ingame feature would be nice, but redundant. Still, something needs to be done to promote alternate campsites. It's up to the userbase though, not Square - they gave us more than enough campsites. It's us who choose to camp on top of each other.

This should again, be a skill not a feature.

Meaning S-E should neither endorse, sanction, acknowledge, nor prefer one camp site over another, in any and all zones.

The moment it does happem, you open up a can of worms from everything composed of GM calls, to tech support, to RP, to development, etc, etc, etc.

A player community, can chart, dot, and share what it wants. It is not S-E endorsed, therefore, they are free to tweak their services without baggage.

It is part of the "playing" If you can't handle disputes, don't get into them. You can't police subjective code of conducts.

This should be [GM]Dave top 10 hate list. I don't want to listen to 3 people that can't decide to cross the street at different intervals.

You don't "own" a camp site. I can muscle in if I want to, as long as I:
1: Don't mpk
2: Not be rude
3: Not Hold monsters