I like swords! [Archive] - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel

Jance

08-12-2006, 08:30 PM

I'll start this by saying many of my impressions may be wrong, I have no real way of knowing. I am a newbie, yes. I dont get alot of time to play. So I spend most of it reading these forums and various guides scattered throughout the net.

Based on what Ive read, PLD isnt the needed tank one would think it was meant to be. Seems alot of preference goes to NIN. Tank has always been my favorite position in all the MMORPG's Ive ever played, so of course PLD was my goal in FFXI. But not after all the horror stories Ive read.

Im starting to lean more to DD, but that created a new problem. Ive always been a fan of looking good, and doing it my way. In WoW I spec'd my undead WAR as a two-hand flurry. Most parties wanted either a shielded tank, or MS. Tough. I dont wanna. I could still hold hate, so it didnt really matter. I quickly learned that nobody in FFXI wanted me to use sword/shield as WAR, but were kind enough to explain. I didnt argue, and equipped my G.Axe that was SO kindly given to me by one of the players making the recomendation. I understand the "make dead fast" concept, but what about what I want?

If I go the WAR path, is G.sword a suitable substitute for G.axe? Will I still get invites? What about after I can sub NIN, can I dual wield swords as opposed to axes? I'll admit it, I like swords. But will I still get invites?

MisterCookie

08-12-2006, 08:34 PM

Unless you plan on going into a job that uses swords(which apparently you aren't), g. axes(for /thf) and dual hand axes(for /nin) are the standards for wars. They have A skills in both weapon types, compared to sword, which is only a B.

dirtyclown

08-12-2006, 08:38 PM

Based on what Ive read, PLD isnt the needed tank one would think it was meant to be. Seems alot of preference goes to NIN. Tank has always been my favorite position in all the MMORPG's Ive ever played, so of course PLD was my goal in FFXI. But not after all the horror stories Ive read.

Wha? Where exactly did this come from? PLD isn't popular in Merit parties, not parties in general. So there's still at least a large percentage of the game that you can go through before you may or may not run into trouble.

f I go the WAR path, is G.sword a suitable substitute for G.axe? Will I still get invites? What about after I can sub NIN, can I dual wield swords as opposed to axes? I'll admit it, I like swords. But will I still get invites?

Axes are your friend. I like swords too, but you'll need to use weapons that you're proficient with to best contribute to your party. After you sub nin you could offhand a sword if you really wanted to, but for the most part Axes ftw.

Mhurron

08-12-2006, 09:06 PM

Unless you plan on going into a job that uses swords Irrelevant since any job that uses swords would naturally skill them up in their use. Thinking like this has WAR's using polearms because they want to be a DRG one day. If your job performance is closely tied to your weapon, use the weapons your job performs best with.

Thrasher

08-12-2006, 09:28 PM

Celeal

08-12-2006, 09:41 PM

If you really like sword, you may want to try Paladin or Blue Mage. If you really want to use sword for Warrior, as least bring an axe and a great axe with you. Experience point party is not everything in this game. If you are doing mission, quest or solo, feel free to use sword ^^;

DakAttack

08-12-2006, 09:58 PM

People want whatever tank will tank their targets best, and most of the time it will be Ninja. Paladins get the shaft, but you'll always be their second choice...

In this game weapon skill levels play a huge role your efficiency, since each skill level adds about one attack and one accuracy to your totals. Around level twenty-five you'll really start to feel the difference between a rated A weapon and a B. By then you'll have a lot of trouble skilling up your A weapon.

You'll be playing a lot of different jobs, and I think you'll enjoy the diversity betweem them and their choice of weaponry. During end game a Warrior would most likely be dual wielding swords if they're lucky, so you can keep that in mind.

PTT

08-12-2006, 10:03 PM

You sound like your mind is already made up to look good your way (I don't know anything about WoW, but I'm assuming you did something that's not 'the norm' for Warrior... warriors are the FFXI PLD type tanks in WoW?)

Anything is 'possible,' the trick is to convince enough people to let you try it on a regular basis. Cookie cutters are already stamped into our minds, however, and it's hard to re-define something we accept as law (though it's not absolute).

Myself, I played Warrior to 30 with Sword and Shield. I didn't know any better (NA launch of FFXI, I was a newbie). It worked out okay, because English speaking parties needed tanks, and WARs and MNKs were all we had for awhile. Often we'd have 2 WARs or /WARs per party, alternating provokes every 15 seconds in a sort of rudimentary Dual-Ninja tank setup minus the Utsusemi.

Now, I never contributed to much damage in those parties, but I was an adequate tank when it was needed. If you wanna be a Warrior tank, it's definitely possible. Gear up for it, use an appropriate subjob (MNK or NIN for example) advertise it in your search comment, and if you say you can handle it, wait until a party will let you do what you want.

DirtyClown is correct, Paladins are still popular in EXP parties, with the exception of Level 70+ speed-killing parties. The rarity of tanks seeking-party is almost on par with lack of healers, or support jobs like RDM and BRD. If you still want to go Paladin, I see no reason why you shouldn't. Look good your way, don't let the stereotypes get you down.

We're the best at using Swords, and the 2nd best at using Greatswords (1st is Dark Knight). So if you too enjoy swords, c'mon board! :D

PS: Greatsword PLD use is usually for when you're not the main tank. The shield really, really helps mitigate damage.

Neomage

08-13-2006, 05:21 AM

You can use a sword from 1 - 75 as a warrior, but you would probably be very weak compared to others, and would probably be better off playing a Paladin.

My suggestion is to take Warrior to 30 or 37 using Great Axes. At 30, you can unlock the advanced jobs and 37 is the subjob cap at 75. At this point, I would unlock Paladin and if your up to it, Blue Mage. The two are completely diffrent jobs, but they are the only two jobs in FFXI that excel (A and A+ skill, respectively) in Swords.

Blue Mages' spells are awsome and are some of the strongest Damage Dealers in the game, and even come with spells to support themselves and others. They are very versitle though, aned with the right subjobs, they can also function as a Healer or Tank. Common subjobs include Warrior, Thief, Ninja, and White Mage. The only real setback is they are popular(this is a setback? oh yes, many others are competeing with you.) and that they're spells are a MENA PAIN to learn.

Paladins are less lusterful, but still hold a strong grip on FFXI. They're sword skills are slightly weaker, but the second base in the game. They get all of the Weapon Skills from Sword, and can even get Exaclibur if you have gil flowing outta yer ears. Spells can be bought from AH cheaply, and for some reason one third of the playerbase never wants to pt with Paladins... yet they want then to tank at end game >.> talk about hypocritical.

Szkol

08-13-2006, 06:35 AM

I'm sort of in the same situation as the OP. I just started a new char, that is going to be my DD/tank char while my 1st char will remain my mage char. I like to use the Great Swords, however. I've been doing really well so far with it, and to be quite honest, I'm seeing a LOT of other WARs running around the dunes with G. Swords as well. I really wanted this to be my character for having fun with, and so far I'm having loads of fun playing WAR. What I really want to do though, is take WAR straight to 37, or 30 at the very least, and from there, unlock DRG, SAM, NIN, PLD, and DRK. I'm fairly certain that only DRK has an A rating on G. Swords, but if I intend to use those advanced jobs as my mains, while keeping WAR as a sub, does it really matter that I use G. Swords now? It's nearing the time when I'll be heading for Qufim, and I've only seen 1 or 2 G. Sword WARs out there before. Will I be able to make it to 30 as a G. Sword user? I noticed that some of the swords have Attack bonuses, and I bought the Mercenary's Greatsword b/c of it +7 attack, and I also keep my Lgn. Gloves on me for a +3 bonus, so I don't think my damage is suffering. Also, it seems we get a bigger variety of skillchains than would normally be had.

Neomage

08-13-2006, 03:20 PM

Once again, Axes and Greataxes are better for Warrior, but you could make it from 1-75 using Greatswords.

Lmnop

08-13-2006, 03:25 PM

They're sword skills are slightly weaker, but the second base in the game.
Pretty sure PLD is A+ sword skill to BLU's A-, as well as having higher STR growth. Not that + or - even exists 'til 61+.

-------

You can use sword or great sword for as long as you wish. Just remember, I'll be out there with Greataxe making you look bad. Greataxes aren't incredible because you're A ranked with them, they're incredible because they have the best Weapon Skills. Also (and this is w/out consulting Mystery Tour, so this may not be accurate), I think Greataxes typically have better dmg/delay ratios than most other warrior - equipable weapons at the pre-30ish region.

For the last time, using Warrior to skill up weapons in exp parties for your future "Advanced job" Does you more harm than good. You will suck more, get less exp, and get to your precious "advanced job" later. Additionally, what good is Greatsword skilled up to 90 when you could have your level 30 warrior pick up a Gsword at skill level 0 and skill it up to 10 or so in about 20 minutes? Once it's at this point, it'll never come uncapped for your Dark Knight.

neighbortaru

08-13-2006, 03:28 PM

Once again, Axes and Greataxes are better for Warrior, but you could make it from 1-75 using Greatswords.won't get past Maat with GS :evil:

if you really want the "ultimate" build, level all three weapons: Axe, Great Axe and Sword.

tdh

08-13-2006, 04:07 PM

Up to about Lv.20 a WAR using a Sword can get the job done. Mainly due to Skillchain options with Sword at that level. But for WAR, as you've had drilled into you, your weapons are Axes. You can use A LOT of different weapons, but you're going to provide more damage, build TP faster, have better Accuracy if you keep with the Axes.

PLD in my LS originally wanted to become a DRG. She tanked to WAR27 with Polearm and did very well. Of course I helped her by leveling THF at the same time. So Double Thrust > Sneak Attack Fast Blade helped us gain a lot of EXP fast. Just be ready to break out one of WARs "real weapons" in the high 20's or at Lv.30 at the latest.

I think once you have Sturmwind as WAR/MNK you won't care too much about Swords. You're going to be 1st or 2nd place with WS damage at that level, and will enjoy showing off. (150~300dmg Sturmwinds Vs. Sneak Attack Fast Blades for 200~300dmg)

PLDs are awesome a lot of the game. So don't let the few disgruntled PLDs who can't Merit change your job about PLD. I'll admit to wanting NIN over PLDs in some situations, and vice versa so don't go thinking PLD is useless or any such thing.

PTT

08-13-2006, 05:17 PM

Paladin and if your up to it, Blue Mage. The two are completely diffrent jobs, but they are the only two jobs in FFXI that excel (A and A+ skill, respectively) in Swords.

Paladins are less lusterful, but still hold a strong grip on FFXI. They're sword skills are slightly weaker, but the second base in the game.

Paladins are the sword masters of FFXI, with a capped level 75 skill of 276, which classifies them as having an A+ skill. This is why we get all the Weaponskills for sword. I don't know exactly what skill Blue Mages have, but I'll trust Lmnop's post that it's A- .

As for being weaker, that's mostly due to the defensive gear setup on a PLD, or rather, lack of offensive setups. We also don't usually get the benefit of subbing Ninja for 2 swords

Hamlet

08-13-2006, 06:02 PM

Swords are cool, but I don't understand why Wars often say it's either greataxe or sword and shield. You do know that you can equip an axe and a shield right? Axes are good, they're kind of a middleground between a sword and a 2 handed weapon.

But if you REALLY like swords, I would suggest trying out a job that uses them well, like pld or blu. You seem like you'd like blu mage. Also, you mentioned Ninja and katanas are kind of like sword, and have a cool backhanded swinging motion.

Jenifa

08-14-2006, 01:38 AM

Once again, Axes and Greataxes are better for Warrior, but you could make it from 1-75 using Greatswords.

lol once you get a rep for being a WAR with GSD you wont get many PT invites...

End-game PLD are always wanted, as much as ninjas. You are right tho, PLD will get a slower invite rate in xp pt tho.

Warrior can use sword ok at end-game too. Mostly with off-hand Joyeusse and meritting sword skill and wearing suppanomimi.

Dual-wielding sword options as war are more-or-less unviable unless you can get a ridill and joyeusse which would make you a monster.

Mog

08-14-2006, 07:16 AM

I'll sum up what everyone said:

If WAR, use axes. Wait to use swords for endgame
If PLD, use sword and shield (or GS, but rarely)
If DRK, use scythe

Anything other than these combinations will get you hate from the party members and you will find it to be very difficult to level said job. That's just how final fantasy works.

If you want to skill up sword, join skill up parties and use it whenever you're helping your friends, but for xp purposes, don't stray from these combinations.

Asir

08-14-2006, 08:21 AM

The difference between using an Axe/Shield or G. Axe is even noticable in the dunes when you keep your skills up. When I play as WAR, I bring both with me so I can use whichever one my party needs me to use. The other day, I had a party and there were two WARs, me and some other guy. He was using the sword and shield combination and he was only hitting for a max of 5 damage compared to my 20 with 1 handed axe or 28 with my G. Axe against low ITs. We were the same level with only a couple of exp points difference. Had he come to the party with an Axe or G. Axe, we could've done stronger WSs for a stronger SC for faster kills.

Ziero

08-14-2006, 08:31 AM

Plds are *the* best one handed sword users in game. They have a higher skill then blu, better sword choices then blu (Espadons are just killer) and are the only job with access to Swift Blade. So if you want to be a sword wielding tank be a Pld. The only trouble they have in regards to use is in high lvl 'tp burn' pts where no one tanks, everyone subs nin and spam WS. And even in those circumstances you can gear for DD, sub nin and go to town with swords. Not only that, but Plds are the *only* job to have three A ranked weapons, not even War can say that.

As for War w/ sword, you *can* do anything you want in this game. Doesn't mean you'll get invites though. Great axe gets two of the best pre 55 WS, in the forms of Shield Break and Sturmwind, as well as stellar DoT. And starting at 43 you gain access to some *sick* axes, in the form of CC+2 axes then upgrading to Viking Axes at 48. And when you get to 55 you pretty much have no choice but to sub nin and dual axes as you gain Rampage, a WS that's good all the way through end game. At 60 Gaxe gains a new WS that evens out the playing field vs axes again and also gains one of *the* strongest WS in all of End game. War's with swords are a very rare sight unless they have some very specific swords.

Also I find it kinda ironic you don't want to be a Pld due to fear of low invites yet think that being a War with a Sword will make things better. People will *always* invite a Pld to tank over a War past 30. And as a war myself I love good Pld tanks cause that means I don't have to hold back on Dmg. I love being able to pop aggressor, Warcry, then WS and not get hate, and I don't know many nins who can hold hate when I do that.

So in short, use that Gaxe till 30, unlock Pld, and play that.

Jance

08-14-2006, 10:27 AM

He was using the sword and shield combination and he was only hitting for a max of 5 damage compared to my 20 with 1 handed axe or 28 with my G. Axe against low ITs.

When I first partied in the dunes, I had sword capped and was doing damage in the 20's, and have yet to see a HUGE increase in damage. Yes, Gaxe does more, obviously, but it's also slower. I know later on the gap gets bigger, but swords look cooler.

Also I find it kinda ironic you don't want to be a Pld due to fear of low invites yet think that being a War with a Sword will make things better. People will *always* invite a Pld to tank over a War past 30.

Read my original post a little more closely. I didnt say that being WAR w/sword would be better. I asked if it was doable. Also, I clearly stated I was leaning more toward DD as opposed to tank.

As always, I appreciate ALL of the input, my question was answered and then some. I'll bug the ffxionline community some more later.

Ziero

08-14-2006, 11:12 AM

I did read your first post, it said you were frightened away from becoming a Pld due to 'horror stories' about it's lack of use then ask if being a War DD using swords would work. There are *very* rare circumstances a War will ever use a Gsword and even fewer to main hand a one handed Sword.

If you want to DD with a sword type of weapon your best options are Blu, who uses one handed curved blades but gets more dmg out of their spells, Drk who use Gswords but also need to lvl Scythe as well as it's better in many situations, and Samurai who use Gkatana types swords but use swords none the less.

If you want the traditional sword/shield knight in armor type set up, go Pld like you initially wanted. There is nothing wrong with Pld in any way shape or form.

Celeal

08-14-2006, 12:04 PM

From level 1 - 60, WAR lacks good swords WS until Vorpal Blade. Sword WS like Red Lotus Blade or Seraph Blade are Magic/Elemental based, which are not stackable to Sneak Attack, and using INT+ or MND+ as part of the WS damage modifier. Besides, From level 1 - 60, there are only a few swords that has very good stats with it. Combine WAR's B grade skill in sword, your accuracy and damage over time is low in standard experience point parties.

To sum it up:
1. WAR's B grade sword skill.
2. Lack of good sword selection at low and mid levels.
3. Lack of good sword WS from level 1 to 60, lack of good Skillchain options.
4. WAR lack of INT/MND to boost sword's elemental WS.
5. Sword lack of WS that stacks well with Sneak Attack from level 1 - 60, besides Fast Blade :wasted:

Even Vorpal Blade is a nice WS, because it is a 4-hit WS, accuracy is import. WAR's B grade swords skill is not going to help.

In my opinion, swords in this game suits for melee/mage hybrid like PLD, BLU and RDM (for some situation).

Raydeus

08-14-2006, 12:12 PM

OP I strongly suggest you go PLD as you intended in the first place, PLD issues are lvl 70+ (specially if the lack of invites for Merit-burn/BC stuff is what you are concerned about).

Before that you'll get way more invites as a PLD than as a WAR (at least untill Burn party lvl), and there's no chance anyone will invite you more than once as a WAR/NIN with dual swords.

PLD is a great job and has everything you seem to want, so there's really no reason to drop the idea. Plus if you get a good ls or a good group of friends you can static merits once you hit the lvl.

Also SE might implement more things to improve PLD tanking by then anyway.

Jenifa

08-15-2006, 12:06 AM

@LV61 Sword cap = 199 / Axe Cap = 207
@LV75 Sword cap = 250 / Axe Cap = 269

Asir

08-15-2006, 07:22 AM

When I first partied in the dunes, I had sword capped and was doing damage in the 20's, and have yet to see a HUGE increase in damage. Yes, Gaxe does more, obviously, but it's also slower. I know later on the gap gets bigger, but swords look cooler.

Yes, a G. Axe has a long delay on them and that is the only thing I dislike about them. However, they also provide a WAR with those nice damage dealing numbers that are consistantly higher then a WAR using a sword. It is those G. Axe numbers that you get invited for as well as the Break weapon skills to aid the party.

Personally, I love the Axe & Shield combination which is WAR's A or A- skill. It gives me good damage but not great compared to a G. Axe and allows me to work on my shield skills for when I eventually unlock PLD again. However, I also know that a lot of parties prefer me to bring a G. Axe with me for it's damaging numbers and Shield Break since I'm not high enough yet for the other Breaks.

Like everyone else has said, you are just limiting yourself if you plan on just using a Sword and Shield. Once you leave the Dunes, many parties will overlook you if you get a reputation as a player that insists on playing only one way instead of being flexible. Later in levels, finding a party as a DD becomes harder because of how many jobs there are to choose from. Do you really want to make it harder on yourself by not being the best you can be?

Jance

08-15-2006, 07:29 AM

My devotion to being a team player overrides my desire to brandish sharp swords, so Gaxe it is until I get to 30. I still dont know if I'll go PLD or do a complete reversal and go BLM. But again, thank you for setting a newb straight.

Tsingtao

08-15-2006, 08:11 AM

Here's my 2 cents as a 74 PLD, if you want to play the job play it. Final Fantasy XI isn't wow to reach end game and hit 75 I've taken nearly 2 years. I'm a slow leveller and I've played every job near enough to around level 20. The important thing is to play the job right.

If you choose to be a sword wielding WAR you will reduce your parties efficiency, that is not up for debate. Many parties can and will kick you for it once you've passed level 20 or so, even if you form parties people may walk away once they see your weapon choice. At the very least a large number of LSes will see your name in lights as the n00b WAR with the sword, suffice not good for building a reputation.

Now the positive side of things, PLD is by no means a neglected job. I've found invites relatively free thorughout my levels other than about 35 - 45 when NINs just rule the roost. For the merit TP burns PLDs are still very good, the problem is most PLDs think I'm a tank and have no other set up. For parties now I tank in at least 50% DD and if theres a NIN can go full DD and not make a total yutz of myself. To do this costs, it costs lots and requires you to work at your job, if you're not afraid of that people will know you have the kit after a while and still invite you.

For the love of god do not play any job other than you want in FFXI, this is not bubblegum like WoW you'll be playing a long time so play to enjoy what you do.

Asir

08-15-2006, 06:29 PM

You're quite welcome. I would rather see a new player do well in the game then come back to the forums a month or so later complaining about lack of invites due to bad choices or quitting. WAR is a very fun job to play and I'm sure you'll be quite happy with the G. Axe damage once you get your skills close to cap or capped.

Good luck in your adventures and may you always die with your boots on.

C.D

08-21-2006, 07:23 AM

Plds are *the* best one handed sword users in game. They have a higher skill then blu, better sword choices then blu (Espadons are just killer) and are the only job with access to Swift Blade. So if you want to be a sword wielding tank be a Pld. (...)

Hi, my Sword skill is 278 (Merits + Suppanomimi + Fortitude Torque) and I'm *the* best swords wielder in the game. And guess what, I'm a War/Nin and a (blink) tank.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/755/swords1vv0.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swords1vv0.jpg)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/917/swords2gd2.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swords2gd2.jpg)

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3720/sword3ef0.th.jpg (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sword3ef0.jpg)

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7340/swords4uf0.th.jpg (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swords4uf0.jpg)

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7210/swords5pq6.th.jpg (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swords5pq6.jpg)

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8315/swords6nw1.th.jpg (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swords6nw1.jpg)

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/9094/swords7dp1.th.jpg (http://img113.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swords7dp1.jpg)

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/6480/swords9ra3.th.jpg (http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swords9ra3.jpg)

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/3117/swords11rg5.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swords11rg5.jpg)

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/3382/swords10yx3.th.jpg (http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swords10yx3.jpg)

Try doing this with a lolPaladin or a Blue Mage, please.

Warrior/Ninja is an excellent tank throughout the whole game and specially past LV74 and holds hate through damage minimizing the damage taken via Utsusemi; find me a weapon combo with higher DPS than Ridill/Joyeuse and I'll use it, for the moment my Swordx2 set up (along with Axe/Ridill, for some instances, since Rampage is such a powerful Weapon Skill) is the best endgame weapon choice my WAR has.

Steel Cyclone may be cool at times for damage spikes (although its superiority as WS is debateable, a fully buffed Rampage can do as much if not more damage 90% of times, while subbing ninja and at 100% TP lol) but RidillWAR Damage overtime is way higher on pretty much anything, damage'able HNMs included and War/Nin usefulness is way higher than the /Thf counterpart.

neighbortaru

08-21-2006, 07:53 AM

dude, you have a ridill... 'nuff said

and you got merits and abjurations up the wahzoo. remember, we are talking about lower level here

Celeal

08-21-2006, 07:57 AM

It is your gear/weapon/merit contribute most toward your sword, not the job itself.

Murphie

08-21-2006, 08:04 AM

Tsingtao

08-21-2006, 08:25 AM

It was nice though and I'm so impressed, not sure we'll see that combo weilded in yhoater jungle any time soon mind. Irrelevant but hey it was nice to see...

Ziero

08-21-2006, 08:43 AM

Hi, my Sword skill is 278 (Merits + Suppanomimi + Fortitude Torque) and I'm *the* best swords wielder in the game. And guess what, I'm a War/Nin and a (blink) tank.

Hi, I don't care what you have because the OP isn't at 75 with full merits and the best game in gear. Guess what, a Pld with all that suff, save for ridill and Adaburk, would be just as good. But Plds don't focus on that.

Also I love how you mention Rampage, an Axe WS and Steel Cyclone, a Gaxe WS, when trying to prove that swords are better. Kind of ironic your best Dmg came from your Axe WS no?

The two exceptions to the rule do not make swords the best option. And War/nin is a craptastic solo tank pre 74 as the only ways they can hold hate are with 'dmg' and voke. With the right support and a smart PT it can work with a Brd using Carnage elegey, but it is FAR from the optimum. And at 74+ Most jobs can sub nin and tank, that's the whole concept behind Meripo pts. Have all the melee sub nin so you never need to heal. There are plenty of stories about Drks, Mnks, Thfs, Brds and yes even Plds, subbing nin and tanking NMs/HNMs and so forth.

By the time this guy got to your lvl he will be able to think for himself and understand what's best and why. But for now, while he's new, he's asking for advice on what's best for *his* lvl at this time.

And without Ridill, Joyese, Full merits, Suppa and the tourque, Plds are the best sword uses in game.

LyonheartLakshmi

08-21-2006, 08:45 AM

I understand the "make dead fast" concept, but what about what I want?
You can do anything and everything the way you want to... if you solo. But soloing gets you nowhere slow in this game (with a few exceptional cases). This game is all about teamwork and cooperation. When you're on a team with 5 other people, you have to learn the art of compromise. And it won't always be about what weapon you main hand. It could be over your sub. Or over what zone to head to. Or what DD job to fill the 6th spot with. Or over why you have a Happy Egg equipped instead of Acid Bolts. Or over whether to use Dia on the mobs, or Bio, or (gasp) both.

Sometimes, you'll be "right". Other times, they'll be "right". Most of the time, there's no "right" and "wrong". It's best to pick your battles. High maintenance, heavy complaint players make for a very un-fun gaming experience. I suggest doing your part to be easy going, and hope other players do the same. It will have far more of an impact on your gaming experience than your choice of weapon ever will.

Lmnop

08-21-2006, 09:20 AM

>.> redundant post #231 here goes:

As C.D points out, there are obviously exceptions to the rules. Ridill is broken, plain and simple. The fact that Warrior can equip Ridill is countered by the fact that a PLD could have Excalibur. And sure, fully upgraded Relic is uncommon, but so is Ridill, so we've lifted limits of "likelyhood." Methinks a Fully meritted PLD with full homam + Excalibur/Justice Sword (as well as all sword skill raising accessories) would be pretty fun. >.>;; Except I think you'd get higher DoT by not Dual Wielding. Oh how I wish they'd release a PLD shield with Haste +5% on it...

BUT! that's not regular. For any warrior who I can't even convince to level Greataxe, I'm certainly not going to tell them to keep sword leveled for the occasion of obtaining a Ridill (besides, you can wait and skill up with Joyeuse to make life easier).

I must disagree on War tanking though, War/nin + Bard + Whm 40+ is incredible, if said jobs are competent players. 48+, Rdm (or SMN, technically) can replace the Whm in that layout, as well as being more reliable at landing Slow (very important for the tanking war/nin). 59+, Tanking is stupid easy with just voke, aggressor, and berserk. Unfortunately, I only got to do this 59-60 and no one has let me tank since. But everyone remembers Nny's tales.

lolPaladin

This is a good way to incite anger. lol<insert job here> does nothing but fuel the fires of ignorance.

C.D

08-21-2006, 09:39 AM

If I were 75 and had full merits and some of the best gear in the game, I'd be pretty awesome too. But since we're not talking about being 75 and having some of the best gear in the game, I don't see what all that bragging has to do with anything.

Maybe you can't read. This is what I quoted:

Hi, I don't care what you have because the OP isn't at 75 with full merits and the best game in gear. Guess what, a Pld with all that suff, save for ridill and Adaburk, would be just as good. But Plds don't focus on that.

Also I love how you mention Rampage, an Axe WS and Steel Cyclone, a Gaxe WS, when trying to prove that swords are better. Kind of ironic your best Dmg came from your Axe WS no?

Plds are *the* best one handed sword users in game. They have a higher skill then blu, better sword choices then blu (Espadons are just killer) and are the only job with access to Swift Blade. So if you want to be a sword wielding tank be a Pld (...)

Which is false. So I posted proofs of who really are the best swords wielder in this game: Warriors, due to the ability of dual wielding while conserving Double Attack and Job Abilities like Berserk and Aggressor and also thanks to the superior DD gear/weapon choice.

Highest skill doesn't automatically mean doing more damage (in fact, at level 75, 1 skill "only" adds 1 Atk and 0,9 Accuracy) than another class and regards my WS screenshots lol, there's DoT and there's spiked damage; Rampage is surely superior to Vorpal Blade in that sense but the frequency of the attacks while main handing an Axe is nowhere high as the 2x swords combo one.

There are plenty of stories about Drks, Mnks, Thfs, Brds and yes even Plds, subbing nin and tanking NMs/HNMs and so forth.

Only viable tanks for real HNMs are Paladins, Warrior and Ninjas. End of the story.

Serket isn't a HNM, Behemoth NQ isn't a HNM, Hakutaku isn't a HNM, although a LV43 may think otherwise.

Besides, I tank stuff on my PLD/NIN all the time (the rare days you can actually see me on Paladin), Cerberus, Tiamat, etc. The only times I feel the need to sub /WAR is for kited fights (King Behemoth, Vrtra) and Fafnir/Nidhogg (even though my Warrior would be a far superior tank in this case).

And without Ridill, Joyese, Full merits, Suppa and the tourque, Plds are the best sword uses in game.

Sure and without Hydra Haubert and Bahamuth Mask Paladin kinda sucks; what's your point then because you aren't making any sense here. The fact that not many peoples have access to the aforementioned items doesn't mean they don't exist/don't ehnances the class capabilities lol /rollseyes. The only reason Paladin use swords is for their bonus (Enmity from Grudge Sword and Macuhauitl +1, HP and Defense from Tutelary, VIT from Honor Sword, Killer Trait from Hrotti and so on) since they're kinda forced to use a 1 handed weapon nowadays after shield revamp, not because they're so omfgpowerful while using one; If they'd add a club with +50 HP/+4 Enmity/+6 VIT you wouldn't see a single PLD wielding a sword in the whole Vana'diel, lol.

Double Post Edited:

LolPaladin

This is a good way to incite anger. lol<insert job here> does nothing but fuel the fires of ignorance.

Lol dude, watch more closely. I was being sarcastic since I'm a PLD myself and I know very well the strenght and the weakness of the job.

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/2538/lolpaladin3kn3.jpg

Murphie

08-21-2006, 10:22 AM

My reading comprehension is just fine, thanks. Whatever Ziero is talking about really has absolutely nothing to do with the OP's question, which is what I was referring to. Maybe you're the one with the comprehension issues?

The bottom line is that for most people, getting incredibly rare/godly gear is not ever going to happen. So while it's great to flash our e-peens and talk about how awesome we are with all this great stuff, it's not going to help newer players to learn what will work best for them during the early to mid-levels of the game.

What works at 75 doesn't necessarily work at 35. That's not really a difficult concept to grasp.

Lmnop

08-21-2006, 10:26 AM

This is simply 2 perspectives. C.D is only looking at ultimate performance. When other people say PLD is the king of the sword, they mean that PLD has the highest sword skill in the game, and access to every piece of sword skill+ gear that war has (they can even both sub rdm for swordbelt >.>) as well as able to use every single sword WS ever made.

However, a Warrior with a ridill/joyeuse, merits out the ass, and its own natural advantages will outDD a paladin. Yes, it's true. The flaw here is that, PLD isn't built to be pure DD. Even in a situation where a Paladin is pure DD, they at least have cures and Flash to upkeep the party (and cover for temp tanking at the very least). What does Warrior have when DD? A big fuggin' voke when the tank is about to die. That's very nice, don't get me wrong, but their real role when playing DD is exactly that.

In short, Warrior was made to deal more damage than Paladin, that's the way it is, that's the way the game was balanced.

You missed something about Paladin and Swords though -- damage -is- important. Pallies don't just use swords for stats. That age is coming to an end. Those beliefs are what caused the rise of blink tanking to the point that no one wants Paladins any more. There comes a point when focusing a bit on attack does more for a Paladin than a handful of +VIT. If said Club was implemented into game with Dmg 26, It would become the new HNM choice. It would be retarded in exp.

EDIT: I put "a sword with a Ridill/Joyeuse" instead of "-warrior- with a Ridill..."

Ziero

08-21-2006, 10:47 AM

The only thing that makes War's 'better' with swords is that they can dual wield Ridill and Joyeuse. That's it. If war's couldn't get just ridill, no war would ever main hand a sword. Your 'DoT' Dmg isn't from you being a War with swords, it's from you HAVING a Ridill and a Joyeuse. Multi hit weapons over write natural DA and TA traits, they also don't proc during WS iirc. That's the main reason your rampages blow your Vorpals out of the water. If Pld could use both Ridill and Joyeuse they would be just as good with swords. You're not the best sword wielder because you're a War, you're the 'best' because you have a freaking Ridill.

As for the HNMs, Drks with Ridill tank the CoP dragons just like Wars, only they can use two massive hate making abilities. Brds, can use marzuka to make massive hate too. Plds cures/flash ect. Again, the only thing a War/nin can tank with over other jobs is voke and 'dmg', but other jobs can do Dmg too. Yes war may be the 'best' as you put it, but it has nothing to do with their swords. If there was a multi-hit axe, besides the temperance, I'd doubt you'd see many wars with swords anymore. Though nice jab with the 43 comment, sadly it failed because A) I haven't updated that thing since I made this account and B) it's not even the highest job I listed.

And FYI, Serket and Behemoth ARE HNMs, Haku's not though, never was. If you don't know the difference between NMs and HNMs then I suggest you avoid that topic.

....and to be perfectly honest, I forgot all about the Excalibur. That alone defeats your argument. With full haste gear, and Pld can get a ton of it, Exca and joy toy, then Pld becomes a much more powerful job. But if you only go full tank gear, like you suggested Plds do, even while subbing nin, then you're not being at your full potential. And seeing as you said that 1 skill level is 1 att/.9 acc, that means that Pld will have +27 more att and +24 acc more then you with a sword, always. Which is more then the Adaburk gives you.

If you're going to use the best of the best DD gear a war can get and compare it to mediocre at best Tank gear for Pld then of course it will be lop sided. But a fully and totally pimped out Pld will be better with a Sword then a War.

dirtyclown

08-21-2006, 10:52 AM

I don't mean to feed the fire, but...I lol'ed. At this entire argument, actually. It's gotten quite epic.

Mog

08-21-2006, 10:54 AM

dude, you have a ridill... 'nuff said

and you got merits and abjurations up the wahzoo. remember, we are talking about lower level here

Cut him some slack. He's gotta satisfy his e-peen.

Ziero

08-21-2006, 10:56 AM

Yeah, I kinda got aff track a bit huh O.<

Anyways, Murphie is right. Things are much different pre 75 90% of the time, and this subject is one of them. Through out lvling 1-75 there are few, if any times, where a War will be better then a Pld with a sword. It's just how the game was built.

Szkol

08-24-2006, 06:20 PM

OK- so I know this thread has been pretty well beaten into the ground already, but had what I think was an interesting experience today in my first Qufim party as a WAR/MNK. I think it helps to show why a WAR can be successful using a B- (? .... maybe worse?) rated weapon instead of the Great Axe or Axe.

My Equipment was the Following:

Mrc. Greatsword
Leather Bandana
Lizard Jerkin
Lizard Trousers
Lizard Boots/Greaves (?)
Lgn. Mittens
2x Balance Ring

No Food.

So stat bonuses due to equipment included +4 DEX from Balance Rings and +10 Attack from Lgn. Mittens and the Greatsword. None of these are extremely rare/costly/ or difficult to obtain.

In my Qufim party I was far exceeding the damage dealt by the other party members. We had 1 healer, and the rest were Tank/DD... we took turns voking so the healer never had to get panicked that someone was about to die.... but we were all WAR or subbed WAR except for one of us. While most of the other members were doing avereage hits between 6 and 20 (high 20 for critical hits) , I was regularly hitting in the high 30s or low 40s (and up to 60 for criticals).

Then I discovered that magic that is Boost, and the other magic that is Berserk. Using these 2 abilities my damage, and especially my WS damage was off the charts! I think I had WS damage close to 90 points. I didn't get to test the full extent of my damage range with Berserk and Boost b/c I had to log off, but i think these are very promising numbers! Do WARs using G. Axe post numbers this high? Honestly most WARs I have partied with don't use G.Axe, so it's hard for me to say. I think this is good damage, or am I wrong?

neighbortaru

08-24-2006, 06:23 PM

you won't really feel the effects of B rated weapons until around lvl 40+.

Celeal

08-24-2006, 08:04 PM

Feba

08-24-2006, 08:28 PM

Ziero

08-24-2006, 08:47 PM

At that lvl on Drk with Gaxe I could do 60+ a swing and 100+ dmg on WS easy. With the gear you listed, you won't be able to see the true extent of a War DD.

Tevabond

08-25-2006, 02:23 PM

Dude, i've gotten flack from a couple of people for not using Great Axe. If you aren't using axes at ALL, you seriously need to play another job. WARs use axes. WAR using swords is like a WHM trying to DD with Banish, or a BLM fighting with a dagger.

I MB with Holy on my WHM and Melee /w dagger on my BLM ;;...then again my whm has capped divine (rare) and i nuke /w my blm while meleeing.....

anyway axe/shield till 20-30 then axe/axe and GAxe 1-75 actually if u cap out sword u can sub hand several good low level swords when u get nin sub auriga xiphos (sp), nader and cent sword are a few. I actually kept GSword leveled till 40 for skillchain/DRK quest.

Then it started to suck and i was like screw it....

anyway what i mean to say is u can be a bit different but be good at being different and people will remember it. Make Your difference your stength... Take the time to get the auriga xiphos (better dmg i think) or the nader (better dmg and poison i think). Being different is harder and takes more work.

A war with sword/shield who out dmgs an axe/shield war in the dunes while tanking will make more of an impact on me thenany ol war with a G Axe who died 5 times cause he voked the wrong mob

Tsingtao

08-29-2006, 12:11 AM

I can only assume the above is a joke, at least I really hope it is...

Melee BLM is an MP sponge lowering party chains and xp, MBing with holy is just plain wrong. Lose enough MP to cure several rounds of damamge for less damage that lands in one round.

I'm going to go boil my head now.

Siber

08-29-2006, 07:59 AM

A war with sword/shield who out dmgs an axe/shield war in the dunes while tanking will make more of an impact on me thenany ol war with a G Axe who died 5 times cause he voked the wrong mob You cannot compare apples and oranges. If the WAR with the GA provoked 5 wrong mobs, so does the sword/shield WAR. At that point, who are you going to remember more? The guy who was using a more beneficial weapon (tanking w/ a GA in dunes is easy btw, and the Break WS helps a lot) or the guy who wanted to use a sword.

Manji

01-26-2007, 07:12 AM

You cannot compare apples and oranges. If the WAR with the GA provoked 5 wrong mobs, so does the sword/shield WAR. At that point, who are you going to remember more? The guy who was using a more beneficial weapon (tanking w/ a GA in dunes is easy btw, and the Break WS helps a lot) or the guy who wanted to use a sword.

But that was his point, to compare apples and oranges - to say that it isn't just one variable that changes at a time in reality.

He wasn't saying that swords are statistically better, but that just as equipping the optimal weapon isn't the be-all and end-all of being respected, equipping a "illogically" favoured weapon isn't the be-all and end-all of being disrespected.

i.e. If you can be good (team) player and do really well with a sword then that's better than a lot of the players who may well take the road more traveled, but suck anyway and consequently prove ineffective.

I sympathise with the OP because when I made my WAR I really wanted to use a Great Sword. As I'm playing an RPG I wanted to represent my tastes in my character, and my tastes say "use a huge sword!"

What happened isn't that people didn't want to party with me, but rather that once, when I was duo-ing with a BLU, I noticed how she was doing staggeringly more damage with her (one-handed) sword than I was doing with my Great Sword and at lightning pace too.

I asked her why this was and she explained that BLU specialise with that weapon, whereas this weapon isn't exactly my forte. I also was missing a lot too, where she rarely missed. She was, of course, right. Next time I duo'd with her I was using an axe and shield (still not the best for WAR I know) and I far outdid her in damage and equaled her in accuracy.

Basically, I do find it sad that your choices of expression, if you like, have been curtailed by the stifling way in which you will just plain suck with certain weapons. It would be so nice to see people really going for broke with interesting combinations of gear, jobs and therefor strategies - but sadly, to me, that isn't the way it is and you really do have to just accept it. :wasted: