RDM in promivion

[ikkleste]

okay, i'm talking about prommy dem, mea and holla here.

i've finally bullied my linkshell in to getting these done. But currently my only 30+ job is RDM. Now i've heard people say RDM sucks for prommies. But generally these are the same people who say you need a SMN for them too.

Now i appreciate that we may not be the best promivion players, but i refuse to belive that we are useless. We don't seem to bring much to the table that others can't do better at this level. WHM heals better. BLM nukes better. A melee will melee better...

So what do we bring to the table? How can i make myself most useful to the run? What gear should i invest in? SHould i be thinking shade gear and to melee (i'm not one who melee's much outside of solo generally, but it could be interesting to try)? or should i focus on my usual debuff/backup healer/magic burst role.

[Raydeus]

Suport, at that level you are backup everything, before Convert and Refresh RDM is an all around support/melee.

Your first priority is Enfeebling the mob, then back up heal, then melee/MB. At that level you can do it all. You are there to make sure the party runs smoothly. And bring lots of Yagudo drinks and pies and +acc/+att food. You'll use em acording to the situation. ;)

[Mhurron]

Whip out your sword, be prepared to back up heal, have Yag drinks and you'll be fine. Don't worry too much about nuking, even a BLM can't make nukes stick that well on those bosses. What a RDM in Promyvion means is that in one party slot you have extra healing and casting and melee damage. We might not be the best at any of them, but no other job can do all three at the same time. Yes you will be also casting your enfeebs, but the backup healing will be a little more important then it is in most exp parties and will probably cast Bind a lot more then usual. It doesn't stick for long but for one or two seconds its usually enough for the tank to get control again. I had (have) shade gear, but its main benefit was anima farming before hand (you are going to right?). If you're not often meleeing you might need to make sure your sword skill is within a few levels of the cap at 30 (89).

And ignore people that say X job is bad for Y, you're going in as a party not a single job.

My Holla win was BLM, RDMx2, PLD, WHM, and some other melee job. Since everyone is poisoned for that, the extra healing goes a long way.

[Icemage]

RDM isn't as useful in Promyvion than other jobs for a few reasons.

RDM doesn't really come into its prime until level 40+ with Convert and 41 with Refresh. WHMs have almost identical levels of enfeebling skill at level 30, and have the ability to cast various bar-spells, have access to Divine Seal, can cast Stoneskin, have more MP recovery in terms of Clear Mind traits and the all-important Raise spell.

You can still contribute as a RDM, but just be aware that RDM in Promyvion is, strictly speaking, weaker on every front than a WHM (edit: aside from melee, where RDMs are actually fairly competent at that level).

The only natural advantage RDMs give in Promyvion is Gravity, which can be useful for kiting certain enemies (particularly combined with a /BLM subjob for elemental seal). This advantage is dependent on the composition and strategy of your party, as well as the enemies you'll be facing (Gravity is useless against the end boss of Promyvion-Dem, for instance).

This is actually one of those rare occasions where I think RDM/NIN is actually pretty good. Fast Cast plus Bind, Gravity, and Utsusemi with the ability to Cure and Regen makes for a pretty strong kiter.


Icemage

[Aeni]

Well, since you need to level up both WHM and BLM as your RDM progresses in level, you can also just raise those two subjobs to 30 and just not have to worry about it too much. Yes, it seems just a cop out, but what I found out the hard way is COP is infinitely easier if everyone have at least two jobs at the appropriate levels so that it's easier to form parties and a strat to go with it. It's a good practice for end game, where anything goes.

[Murphie]

While a RDM isn't ideal, it's not completely useless for Promys. You won't have Raise, so that might make some folks nervous, but otherwise you'd be a competent backup healer/debuffer. You could try for some nuking damage, but I don't know that you'd do enough of that for it to be worthwhile.

[Taskmage]

Stab things, debuff things, cure when needed. Sub ninja if you have it and pretend you're a ninja with Cure II instead of Provoke. As you said, you won't hit as hard as a war or heal as well as a whm if things get scary, but you can do both better than half as well as either, so if you look at it that way, you're better. ;)

[arkaine23]

Keep at it! CoP is not an expansion for the weak. I toured through the 3 promies in somewhere around 6 attempts. I went as mnk, rdm, and war. The above posters have covered the general playstyle tips well. You'll probably do far better gearing and eating for melee, with swaps to enfeeble and using the bulk of your mp for backup curing.

These fights are not easy. Read the guides. Come prepared with expendible meds, mp drinks, etc. Farm for anima and get your order and strategy worked out before the boss. Make sure the people (or at the least the white mage) have reraise for the trip to the top.

CoP doesn't get any easier as you go along. It's very helpful to form a static at about the point you're at, preferably full of people with multiple jobs leveled. Though CoP statics tend to mix and match, break and reform. If you're LS is pushing CoP, ride it as much as you can. it's well worth the effort to finish the storyline.

Level 30 can be obtained pretty quickly. If you're having trouble getting these promies done, try leveling subjobs for red mage and using some of them if needed. RNG and SMN are in high demand for promies, but WHM, BLM, NIN, & WAR would all be worth the effort to get to level 30 or 37. These are by far the most common subjobs for any main (well blm is only subbed by red mages, but the others are subbed by everyone else). By the time you're ready to finish CoP, you'll have to have a job @ 75. Red Mage is a good one to take you all the way through. I can't think of any fight after the 3 promies where we are not desirable.

[Jei]

I wouldn't want a Rdm if I go to the 3 prommies. Seriously, I took tons jobs up to 30 just for this. And no I didn't stop at 30, I took even more jobs to 60s so I can be flexible in later CoP missions. Early missions, I've used Rng, Nin, War, Smn, Whm primarily. Not until after cap 60s that I started I use Rdm. Rdm generally is not very helpful before that but will become very helpful later on.

In the first 3 prominions, most useful things you can do as Rdm are paralyze and slow the boss. Which Whm generally has no problem landing theirs here. Other stuff like cure regen poisona nuke melee tank kite, other jobs can do it too but better than you.

You offer nothing unique here.

[Dryhus]

Back when my RDM was a shade over 40 I heard that RDMs sucked in Promys, so I thought I'd expand on my versitility. Now I have RDM, BLM, RNG, and MNK over 30 for Promys. Unfortunately, I've still only completed Promyvion-Holla.

The moral of the story is to consider making yourself more versitile by leveling more desired jobs (read: WHM, as it's useful in the 30-cap Promys and as a RDM sub) but don't stop trying to find a group that will take you through them as a RDM, because completing them is more important than completing them as a RNG or SMN.

[Patchinko]

Since your BLM is apparently level 24, and it's a more useful job in the level 30 Promyvion's, I would advise you to level it up to 30 and use it instead. Besides, if you plan on levelling RDM further, you'll need to get it to higher levels!

[Stromgarde]

RDM isn't useless in Promyvion per se, it's just that any viable sub that you'll have at endgame will be a lot more effective- WHM is the only one with Raise, SMN has Astral Flow and the ability to freely damage the Memory Receptacles, and Black Mage rounds out the three despite suffering from a cripplingly low mp pool on some races as well as resist problems for all races.

[Aeni]

I wouldn't want a Rdm if I go to the 3 prommies. Seriously, I took tons jobs up to 30 just for this. And no I didn't stop at 30, I took even more jobs to 60s so I can be flexible in later CoP missions. Early missions, I've used Rng, Nin, War, Smn, Whm primarily. Not until after cap 60s that I started I use Rdm. Rdm generally is not very helpful before that but will become very helpful later on

I agree, but I kinda of wanted to not be so firm about this point, because you can go as RDM if you really want, just that I think it's easier to just finish leveling up subjobs and use them instead.

I plan to level BLM and WHM to 40, just so that I can have other options (BCs) and not just because of COP. I think RDM is okay for 50cap and beyond (COP) so it's not an issue. The sticky area is the 30 cap and even 40 cap (Because you don't have refresh and not sure how often Dispel is used) Thus, having a WHM or BLM leveled (You need to level it anyway to have it leveled appropriately as a subjob for a higher level RDM) will help tons. I also plan to level NIN, DRK, etc. for RDM anyway, so having a lot of jobs across the board to choose from can make life infinitely easier. Especially when you see a shout for COP and see that 4/6 looking for two members and see a job that's not your current main. If you had other jobs leveled too, you'd be a shoe in for that slot...

[IfritnoItazura]

Although I've never asked anyone to use RDM for Promyvion runs, after like ~20 runs of them (I organized these things for my current and previous LS), I don't see any reason to say "no" to RDM.

If that's the only Lv.30+ job one has, and good at it, it's fine--depending on what other people can bring, of course.

I'd take a good RDM over a bad SMN for any Promyvion.

[ikkleste]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I am trying to take up other jobs i have BLM to 24, DRG to 23, but am currently working on on WAR and WHM as subjobs to those. In anycase it looks like the first run will be this weekend so the chance of me leveling up BLM to 30 before then is slim, especially as i'm no levelling fiend. After 17 months my highest job is 42 and next highest is 24....(I'm also currently trying to help my girlfriend move house, and, well, it is world cup season ;))

In any case my LS seems happy to take me as RDM, so finding a group for the time being shouldn't be a problem. But yes i take on board the point that i'll need other jobs anyway. I am already working on that, but at my own pace. I know COP is a long journey, and i'll likely need another job or two leveled to make it through. I'll probably keep at the three prommies for a while even after completeing them depending on what the others in the linkshell are doing, before i move on to the 40 cap stuff. I'll be improving my versatility as i go. But for at least the first couple of runs i'll be RDM.

I'm looking for tactics and what roles i should be filling here, and the first posts in the thread have pretty much answered those queries well. I'll go in with my normal debuff/backup heal gear but will probably take melee gear too.

Another question. If i'm going to be meleeing significantly would it be worth changing my sub? As i'm not nuking, BLM doesn't seem the most useful sub. WHM or WAR would be my other options. and i'd guess whether i'm mainly healing or meleeing would dictate which to use. So party set up will dictate a lot. NIN isn't an option yet.

[Balfree]

Bind is a life saver for that one that spawns babies.

[Taodyn]

I did the Promyvions as a Red Mage and my group found it quite helpful.

Stay up on the stairs, pop a yag drink, and hit the boss with every enfeeble that will help. Gravity is the most important, but rotate through your major enfeebles and you guys should do fine.

After you run through the cycle, back up heal and wait for enfeebles to end so you can recast.

[thepirateking]

Don't listen to the other people about how redmages are not good in promies. They are stupidly easy, provided your group is properly prepped, and is balanced like an exp party.

Here is what you do. First of, get everyone in your group to farm for anima. Get at least the ones that stop the boss from attacking, and the one that stops him from doing specials. Make sure everyone has meds and food. As a redmage, I brought cookies and pie for food (cookies for the trip, pie for the boss), yag drinks, and hi-ether. Bring your Int gear and a Wand (sword for the trip if you feel the need).

For the boss fight as a redmage, first and formost get some defuffs in. Then you backup heal till the boss is at....well we pulled 2 hours at about 30-40% hp remaining. We also brought a PLD rather then a nin, so we had someone who could hold hate. Pop your two hour then, and chainspell the hell out of it. You should know it's elemental weakness, so cast the appropriate spell to take it down.

I've lead 4 promy runs and done a total of 10. The last 2 I did as a bst, because I was leading, we needed another DD, and to prove to the people in the group who said we were going to fail without SMNs and that bst was no good for promies, that ANY job can do them, provided the group takes the time to prep, and you build the group like an exp party.

[Embracingsoul]

Contrary to popular opinion you can take anything through a promyvion. SE did not create an expansion pack that only 6 jobs could partake in. Sadly 75% of FFXI's population are too thick to realise this.

Intelligent people > Preperation > Not caring about dieing once or twice > Job.

Sadly some people die once or twice and think OMG CoP Sucks. I have taken a plethora of jobs with me into Promyvion's from Bard to Bst, Pld to Sam. Probably the rarest job I have taken through a promyvion is a Ranger. They are just so rare now I hardly ever see them. They are NOT neccesairy to get through the promyvions though.

[Aeni]

I've lead 4 promy runs and done a total of 10. The last 2 I did as a bst, because I was leading, we needed another DD, and to prove to the people in the group who said we were going to fail without SMNs and that bst was no good for promies, that ANY job can do them, provided the group takes the time to prep, and you build the group like an exp party.

I've never had a single SMN in any of the 15 runs I've been in. My point is that having more than one job makes things easier, not that it's a requirement of sorts. If she's in an LS, then that's fine. My advice was more for casual players that don't have an LS backing and thus, depend solely on p/u groups and having to listen to shouts in jeuno to get their missions done.

[Feba]

RDM isn't one of the traditionally "Powerful" promyvion jobs, but it does work ok (As does everything else, when used properly. Lv30 is a very forgiving cap)


Just be sure you spend more MP on buffs/debuffs/cures than nukes. Even as BLM, my nukes in promyvion were pretty lackluster.

Promyvion is more of a melee ground than a magic ground, despite all the silliness with elemental orbs.

[Stromgarde]

Ah, but you're forgetting the wizard's first rule.

These are the aspects you want in a team in Chains of Promathia.

1: Wisdom. This is the first and foremost attribute, although it encompasses many others. Being intelligent, willing to listen, willing to plan. I myself recorded and analyzed failed attempts of many fights and used the knowledge to amend strategies and eventually pull through with a win. Which brings me to point number two.

2: Perseverence. These are not easy missions by any stretch of the imagination unless you're twinking to get the exact right configuration for each battlefield. Even then, things can and will go wrong. This can become expensive, but you must be willing to try, try, and try again if you want to make it to Sea. Sacrifices must often be made, most often in the form of meds, especially for 6-4. I leveled alchemy to 60 for the sole purpose of being able to make my own hi potions.

3. The right jobs. Often, any regular exp party build will work, although it will have a more difficult time with certain battles than others. Still, flexibility is always a plus. You WILL want someone with white mage to 60 for 6-4 regardless of your configuration, so keep that in mind.

I've taken two different parties to Sea, with wildly differing configurations. Much can work, but you can also create more work for yourself if you're not open to making a significant investment into alternate means of winning.

One more thing for the record. Tanking Ultima and Omega on Paladin is a nightmare, but doable. If you plan on needing to take a paladin through that battle, IM me and I'll share my notes with you.

[IfritnoItazura]

Ah, but you're forgetting the wizard's first rule."People are stupid"? lol.

"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's head are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so all are easier to fool." -Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander

Anyway, I think the OP probably isn't too worry about which tank to use for Ultima/Omega just yet; the topic at hand is whether s/he should use RDM for Promvyion (CoP 1.3).

I think it's safe to say most of the opinions so far are less than two steps from each other: the "It's just fine" camp and "It's okay, but you might as well level up one of your subjob and use that instead" camp.

[Taskmage]

Ah, but you're forgetting the wizard's first rule.A wizard did it?

[Icemage]

A wizard did it?

See IfritnoItazura's post above. They're referencing the title concept to Terry Goodkind's first novel, "Wizard's First Rule", not making strange backhanded insults. :P


Icemage

[Taskmage]

Oh, I either looked right past the spoiler tag and text below or it was edited in after I read the post. I was making a Simpsons reference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_wizard_did_it#A

[Ghostraven]

I felt useless as a rdm in promy (elvaan too...) so I levelled rng just for cop... if you don't have a static for it, you have almost zero chance of being picked up in a random promy shout...

[Fayttt]

I took my RDM through absolutely EVERYTHING in CoP. Including the promys. People didn't think I would help much so it was hard to get a party for the promys, and the bosses were a little bit tougher since I was kinda taking up room for a better DD (I guess, its what people told me), but I got through them. For Holla/Mea I took BLM sub of course, and just enfeebled and cured through. For Dem though, I said screw it and subbed Nin..it actually worked out pretty well. I won first try with Dem because of Nin sub. I also tried to sub nin for Mea. I have a video of it somewhere..but my party attempted the boss twice..first time we had him to to around 50% if i remember right, and second time we took him to 15% or so without 2hrs. So, RDM definately are not completely useless in Promyvion.

[samarium]

Oh, I either looked right past the spoiler tag and text below or it was edited in after I read the post. I was making a Simpsons reference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_wizard_did_it#A

God, Wikipedia knows EVERYTHING.

You go there n' type in some obscure one-line movie reference from some B-movie from 40 years ago and Wikipedia'll spit back what movie it came from, who directed it, what drugs they were on at the time, how much money the movie lost, why it sucked, who was in it, what drugs THEY were on at the time, and the underwear sizes of the people involved. :thumbsup:

-sam

P.S. Just don't type "Meaning of life". The first result will be the Monty Python movie, and the second one will end all existence. Thanks.

[Altae]

RDM isn't as useful in Promyvion than other jobs for a few reasons.

RDM doesn't really come into its prime until level 40+ with Convert and 41 with Refresh. WHMs have almost identical levels of enfeebling skill at level 30, and have the ability to cast various bar-spells, have access to Divine Seal, can cast Stoneskin, have more MP recovery in terms of Clear Mind traits and the all-important Raise spell.

You can still contribute as a RDM, but just be aware that RDM in Promyvion is, strictly speaking, weaker on every front than a WHM (edit: aside from melee, where RDMs are actually fairly competent at that level).

The only natural advantage RDMs give in Promyvion is Gravity, which can be useful for kiting certain enemies (particularly combined with a /BLM subjob for elemental seal). This advantage is dependent on the composition and strategy of your party, as well as the enemies you'll be facing (Gravity is useless against the end boss of Promyvion-Dem, for instance).

This is actually one of those rare occasions where I think RDM/NIN is actually pretty good. Fast Cast plus Bind, Gravity, and Utsusemi with the ability to Cure and Regen makes for a pretty strong kiter.


Icemage

Gravity works fine for me on the Dem boss. Never resisted one of my three casts from my previous attempt with a friend.

Edit: I also went in with some very, very bad gear as well.

Dream Robe +1
Astral Ring
Black Neckerchief
Shaman's Belt
Charm Wand +1
Custom F Gloves
Custom F Boots
Silver hairpin
Nomad's Mantle

And I don't have any merits in Enfeebling Magic yet. But I do have 1 INT upgrade which could be similar to me being well equipped.

[Standablaze]

No doubt SMNs are great for promy but I recently done holla with:
2x WAR/NIN, 1 BLM, 1 RDM (me), 1 WHM, and 1 SMN

Worked very well to be honest. I meleed a bit with a sword and my equipment wasn't very good, worked fine. I done as much curing as the WHM and I brought plenty of drinks with me for MP refresh.

I'll be doing DEM (already done mea) with RDM again, aswell.

[Kutu]

I did prommy holla with a group of 3 war/nins all using GA. A rdm/nin a whm and a blm. All the warriors just stored TP till 300% the rdm meleed there heart away and did decent damage. We needed very few animas. And to top it all off, each of the wars and the rdm popped an icarus wing at 10% and weaponskilled it to death.

Since i seen it happen, i think Rdms are pretty usefull as dd in there. plus they can cure themselves, saving you from mass curing everyone and getting hate.

[Gentoo]

I've lost count of the number of Promyvions I've done, and I've only done them with summoner a couple of times -- when I was the summoner.

Frankly, I don't like doing them as Summoner though the set-up is perfectly workable. I just don't like having to rely on a 2hr ability to beat the bosses. RDM, in my opinion, is one of the pivotal jobs in doing Promyvions.

By far the best set-up I've gone in with was 2XRNG/nin, WAR/nin, SAM/war, RDM/blm, WHM/blm. My LS took has taken more than one party through all three Promyvions in a single night with this setup (different RDM's and/or Rangers)

The WAR can either kite the boss, or stand toe-to-toe. The Rangers pick it apart at range. If they steal hate, the Warriors Provoke is good enough to get it back. The Samuari, with an Archery skill not far off the Rangers at 30, can attack at range, and use Provoke+Third Eye+Meditate when the Warriors shadows are gone.

Having the RDM there making sure the boss is constantly Dia'ed|Bio'ed, Paralyzed, and Slowed makes it possible to do without 2 hours, and without Animas (although using either or both makes the fight go MUCH faster ;)). If the Warrior decides to kite the boss, Gravity is a must.

[Icemage]

I mentioned the boss of Promyvion-Dem being largely pointless with Gravity since no one in their right mind kites it. It's easy to straight tank, which means the only use for Gravity would be to lower its Evasion (largely unnecessary, since it doesn't evade much anyhow).


Icemage

[Fayttt]

That little tad of -eva can help out in the long run, though.