best DRK sub iyo? AND endgame useful?

[CHAOBLACKDOOM]

I've decided that DRK is just the best option for me.

I have two questions

is DRK useful to parties in endgame events? (gods etc)

also

What is the best sub for DRK at endgame and soloing (just 2-3 monsters while trying to get a party, not FULL solo.)

Thank you for your time.

[Yagami Kunoichi]

Warrior and Thief, sometimes people will want Ninja, and at low levels WHM is useful as well.

[mikejones]

thief for sata kthx

[TheGrandMom]

For endgame you'll want to have sam, war, thf, and nin lvled. There are even odd cases where it would be good to have rdm or whm lvled.

As far as being useful, we aren't on the top of the usefulness scale for melee but one saving grace is that we can stun.

[Taskmage]

I'm a melee n00b, but until 50 or 60 isn't /drg a good option? Jump at level 20 and the Haste+5% earring at level 30 seem like good options for speeding up your damage and tp gain. /war and /thf offer Berserk and Sneak Attack at 30 for increasing your spike damage, but that sounds like a good way to get killed and not necessarily superior in effect to an extra couple swings every minute and a half.

[Yagami Kunoichi]

/DRG might be ok til 50, but then you get Double Attack from /war, and that does seem to go off fairly often, making using DRG obsolete. The trouble would be getting PTs.

[Aeni]

I'm a melee n00b, but until 50 or 60 isn't /drg a good option? Jump at level 20 and the Haste+5% earring at level 30 seem like good options for speeding up your damage and tp gain. /war and /thf offer Berserk and Sneak Attack at 30 for increasing your spike damage, but that sounds like a good way to get killed and not necessarily superior in effect to an extra couple swings every minute and a half.

Yah, at 70+, DRK/DRG kills DRK/THF in every parser I've checked out so far on JP and NA HNM LS forums. Pretty much the ultimate DD machine (2 jumps on souleater ftw ... much better than bolt spamming DRK/RNG) DRK/WAR is still the best for TP burn PTs though, since you cannot beat critical double attack (dps) and burst damage is still okay, esp on Guillotine if crits land and you get double attack kicking in.

Honestly, /THF is useless in every respect, even in end game. You just cannot compare to a SAM/THF on a TA + WS alone (Forget SA if the mob is already facing your one and only tank for a farming run or w/e) Only in a polished system where there's multiple tanks and Tp mobs running all over the place around where you're fighting will /THF for DRK become a serious option. Otherwise BLMs and RDM/DRKs for stunning and SAM/THF for general melee and SC for MBs. I think even THF/NIN fare better than DRKs for SATA duty...

Only good thing about DRKs and a risky option is to put a DRK/NIN in rotation every 5 minutes with vorpal blade spam on souleater and Kraken in offhand ... but the NM will gain plenty TP quick and this usually screws up tanking. But it's been done before on Jormy, among other NMs.

[Yagami Kunoichi]

I was under the impression that you would use DRK/THF on gods and the like for the SC properties anyway, and so you could close Light or Darkness for a Magic Burst. Best time to do it is to catch them while they're casting spells and hit them in mid-cast.

In Caedevra Mire I've been doing ok with DRK/THF though I do prefer DRK/WAR. Still, with my Martial Scythe I've been able to SA Spiral Hell for around 1200 consistently, hitting as high as 1500ish. I'm interested to see how I'll do with DRK/WAR now that I have a Deathscythe as well, since that seems nice for Guillotine. I can't justify spending 960,000 for +2 acc and switching to Orihalcum, though.

/THF I think originated out of people wanting to close skillchains for big numbers. Perhaps there's a shift going on towards using more DoT than burst damage now, in which case /DRG would have its advantages. I would like to see a parser of just how much more it could do, if it can beat /WAR, and whether the loss of Berserk is a serious problem or not.

[Taskmage]

I'm surprised to hear the addition of High Jump at 70 makes drk/drg beat out drk/war. It seems like Double Attack would add more additional attacks than 3 jumps every 3 minutes, and it has the advantage of Berserk. Is it the Accuracy Bonus trait that makes the difference?

[Icemage]

I don't know that /DRG is "that" good, though it does have its uses. It's not so much that Jumps give you so many extra attacks, but they're really fast and give you that extra boost of TP when you really need it, rather than randomly like Double Attack does.

Not to mention with a /DRG sub you can be much happier as a trick attack buddy, since you can shed quite a lot of hate with High Jump.

This last bit is rather interesting - one of the WHMs in my HNMLS has been showing up to Tiamat fights with /DRG and it works surprisingly well. Zero accumulated hate over time, he can do Curaga III and just High Jump the hate away. Quite cool, actually.


Icemage

[Aeni]

I don't know that /DRG is "that" good, though it does have its uses. It's not so much that Jumps give you so many extra attacks, but they're really fast and give you that extra boost of TP when you really need it, rather than randomly like Double Attack does.

I have no real definitive answer as to why, but I believe it lies with the latent earring and other stuff you can equip to enhance the DRK/DRG combination (Oddly enough, however, DRG/DRK does not work equally as well ... lol) Remember, there has to be equal effort into making a DRK/DRG combination successful. Half assed setups on gear and w/o macro swapping for key moments will make it falter behind even DRK/THFs...

Not to mention with a /DRG sub you can be much happier as a trick attack buddy, since you can shed quite a lot of hate with High Jump.

This last bit is rather interesting - one of the WHMs in my HNMLS has been showing up to Tiamat fights with /DRG and it works surprisingly well. Zero accumulated hate over time, he can do Curaga III and just High Jump the hate away. Quite cool, actually.


Icemage

This is the part that allows a DRK/DRG to go all out. They can SE + LR + Guillotine and shed off tons of hate, giving them utility to do huge burst damage every 5 minutes (Leave SE on and have a mage spam Cure IVs/Vs and the damage effect will continue on good dps for that full minute) This is much more efficient than having a DRK/THF trying to gain TP painfully on something like Genbu with that evil stoneskin on... I think it takes that long (4 minutes or so) to even get 100% TP to do something worth while ... although every minute a DRK/THF can just use SA to get something in at least, but hardly worth the trouble.

DRK/DRG's effectiveness however is most noticeable on wyrms and dragons, like Faffy and Seiryu or against unstunnable AoE JA spamming mobs where timing a jump can mean one less melee to heal up (I've seen a vid of this before where it was perfectly executed) Not sure how well accuracy up trait helps, considering most people still use sushi in end game, but maybe if you're just building TP off the mobs in the area to put hurt on the HNM, then maybe you can go for meat dishes and that JT acc up might come in handy to compensate a little...

[wolfjorg]

you'd be surprised, I am asked more than anything to sub war in hnmls at sky events.

more DMG output

faster TP gain

Plus Ground strike doesnt do to well with sata on gods.

[Standablaze]

I'm a melee n00b, but until 50 or 60 isn't /drg a good option? Jump at level 20 and the Haste+5% earring at level 30 seem like good options for speeding up your damage and tp gain. /war and /thf offer Berserk and Sneak Attack at 30 for increasing your spike damage, but that sounds like a good way to get killed and not necessarily superior in effect to an extra couple swings every minute and a half.
Not really. Jump wont do much damage and you'll probably be able to hit harder with good equipment. At those early levels your weapon skills arent worth much either. /WAR til 60 all the way for me. Those extra couple of swings from double attack can do as much as 200 damage total, quite often, a lot more than Jump would give you. When I first hit 50 I had to readjust to how I got rid of hate because double attack was doing so much extra damage.

[Stooky]

I absoulutly hate thf, I am awful at SATA and I rather have war sub for all of it use. its nice to have voke, berserk, double attack, and just better over all damage. I do not care if I can do s huge spike damage on SATA. The overall damage output form /war I think is better. For all melee I consider /war to be the best, even if thf is handy, /war has so many more uses. Yes I will level thf since people want it, but if there not demanding it I will use /war. /Nin can also be handy along with /sam but most the time /war. I am a tarutaru and I think the str form /war is much more handy then everything thf has to offer. I do want thf level 15 soon =P

[Gwynn]

Well, my DRK is only 23 at the moment, but I am quite impressed with the damage output of /DRG. I've partied with THFs, MNKs, BLUs, WARs, etc., and none of them thusfar have been able to deal as much damage as me. Now, that will obviously change once Berserk becomes available from /WAR at 30, but until then I think I'm definately staying with /DRG.

[DrkMateo]

you'd be surprised, I am asked more than anything to sub war in hnmls at sky events.

more DMG output

faster TP gain

Plus Ground strike doesnt do to well with sata on gods.

I call BS, your WS IS your damage on gods if your a drk and it's the best Light closer in the game.

SATA Ground Strike isn't good... UNLESS your at 300 TP and if your gear doesn't suck.

Otherwise just do SATA Spinning Slash to close Light.

I can't parse since I play on PS2 but I'll let you know I pulled off 2k+ dmg on Byakko with a full TP Ground Strike to Light sc on Byakko so if you really think SATA ws sucks on gods you obviously have never fought anything other than Genbu. (Pulled 1.6k on him with full TP Ground Strike to Light.)

I absoulutly hate thf, I am awful at SATA and I rather have war sub for all of it use. its nice to have voke, berserk, double attack, and just better over all damage. I do not care if I can do s huge spike damage on SATA. The overall damage output form /war I think is better. For all melee I consider /war to be the best, even if thf is handy, /war has so many more uses. Yes I will level thf since people want it, but if there not demanding it I will use /war. /Nin can also be handy along with /sam but most the time /war. I am a tarutaru and I think the str form /war is much more handy then everything thf has to offer. I do want thf level 15 soon =P

If you want to take drk to 75 and fight gods your going to need to learn how to setup SATA with Souleater, plus at 66 your going to need /thf to close Light, unless you did what I did. When I hit level 60 my invites for drk stopped so I just made my own pt's til about level 70, I made pt's around my capabilities, gsword never came up so all I did was drk/war with a scythe. Once I hit endgame activities though and joined my sky LS they made me level up /thf and my gsword and I am very grateful to them for it.

Best subs for drk:

War: In tp burn if you have a nin and a thf or a Pld and a thf this sub will give you insane damage and is the most damaging sub for drk for exp/merit pt's.

Thf: For gods and HNM's only for it's ability to do the one massive skillchain, but drk/thf is also the slowest tp gain in the game (blunted somewhat with ABS-TP) and since it's so dependent on the SATA WS it's really a one trick pony.

Sam: Best for Ballista and for certain HNM's like Fafnir where you can't go behind it.

Nin: Tp burn sub with a normal nin tank. Lack of abilities hurts but with abs-tp and a decent amount of gear you can unleash your ws without fear.

Drg: Worth mentioning, Drk/drg catches a lot of flak from doubters, but if you have the right gear: Drake earring, Brutal Earring, W Turban, dusk gloves, dusk boots, and a fully merited Desperate blows and Last Resort recast, this combo can get a delay almost to 400 (or below, I don't feel like crunching the exact numbers right now) and deal damage and get tp with the jumps. This sub is only for those with lots of money, an awesome LS that does sea, and lots of spare time to merit but if you can get the right gear it's THE most damaging sub for drk in an exp situation.

Edit: Crunched the numbers... drk/drg with the haste gear can get a delay of 370-371 during Last Resort and a delay of 449-450 outside of LR.

[Essedarius]

I'd have to agree with Mateo on this one. At 67 right now I'm a massive fan of drk/thf. Yes, then weaponskill damage is phenomenal. Yes, the skillchain damage rocks. Yes, absorb-tp + tp update actually means I can beat out melees in the tp race 75% of the time (use +drk macros). But what I like most is total hate control; I can actually use my buffs now for there full duration, plus the entire party can kill as fast as they can and the mob won't look twice at them.

Now I can understand people don't like using SATA, it's a fiddly fickle thing, but get the hang of it and you'll love it.

I've done /war for 60+ levels, so its an old friend, and an all-around great sub.

/drg sounds really interesting, SE + Jumps + abs-tp sounds like a wicked tp combo, with all the hate shedding abilities that going /sam lacked. Going to have to try that out.

[Yagami Kunoichi]

The problem in the complexity of SATA does not lie in your ability to execute it; it lies in the ability of your party to set up for it. Now, when the Fuidama still worked, it made sense to do it as much as you could, but to pin crit and automatic WS hit damage on a tank someone has to pull hate, or the other person you SATA onto has to be able to deal with that spike of damage and the hate they'll get. A lot of parties, particularly those that are pick up groups, just aren't up to making this a good way of doing things. It's brilliant when you can execute it with a good party, but that's a rare opportunity.

[Aeni]

The problem in the complexity of SATA does not lie in your ability to execute it; it lies in the ability of your party to set up for it. Now, when the Fuidama still worked, it made sense to do it as much as you could, but to pin crit and automatic WS hit damage on a tank someone has to pull hate, or the other person you SATA onto has to be able to deal with that spike of damage and the hate they'll get. A lot of parties, particularly those that are pick up groups, just aren't up to making this a good way of doing things. It's brilliant when you can execute it with a good party, but that's a rare opportunity.

This is true. I've experienced more than my share of sloppy SATA setups as well as RDMs who think it's funny darting in front of a SATA (true and funny story) or BRDs that can't position themselves without "asking for it."

I could fill volumes recounting those god awful parties: EU, JP, NA. They think that because you're not a main THF, they don't need to setup for it. True, we don't need setup for the inital because we can't (subbing THF) do a better plain SATA anyway, but when it comes time to do the renkei+mb, everyone seems to not care.