war/mnk im stuck _ _;

[IxX3xil3d0n3XxI]

im lvling up war for sam/war and im using a mnk sub at war34/mnk17. my problem is that inv are like ...dead. i seeked for about 5-6 hrs and got 1 inv but they asked for a sub nin so i didnt get in the pt.

I do not have nin unlocked and do not want to unlock it or play it. Nin is just not my style at all. all i need is my war 3 lvls and ill be happy.

Also im using a GA and sushi with a venerer's ring and Eisen and the Eisen+1 gear so im not under equiped at all, i dont miss and can really deal out the dmg, i do like war

so any suggestions on what to do? just bear it out or static with LS members i dunno, i dont really have to worry about it until sam is late 60's (15atm) but still it would just be nice to take it all the way then to stop to lvl a sub. can i get some advice please? ^^

[Jei]

I think you somehow answered your own question. Other leaders asked you for sub nin, so that's basicly what you need to be picked.

Another thing that can help is having a nice search comments. This is personal thing, but I like to invite people with nice, friendly and informative comments. No matter what ranks they are, I look at search comment first.

Other choice is to always make your own PT. Some people likes to lead, some doesn't. So it's up to you.

[Caspian]

Well, either stick it out and grind out your last few levels, or bite the bullet and level ninja.
You could always try and make your own parties. You may take shit for not subbing ninja, but you may not. It really can go both ways. /MNK is just fine, most people just see everyone subbing NIN and think thats the only option.
If you do end up deciding to bite the bullet, you'd only have to level NIN to 18, so its not like its a terrifically huge commitment. But do whichever you want. /MNK is severely underrated.

[Atma]

Sooner or later, you're going to need a /nin sub for every melee job. Samurai is no exception. For high level TP burn parties, which are the party type of choice for getting chain #assanine in ToAU, everyone is basically asked to sub ninja To minimize healing, and thus downtime. And you're going to want /nin for when you level up your thf sub for sam anyway.

Even monks are asked to sub ninja sometimes.

[DrivenTooFar]

I hear where your coming from. My WAR is only 30 atm and I eventually have to get it up to 37 for my Paladin. I decided that I am going to unlock Ninja and use it as a sub for the last 7 levels. I don't really want to play Ninja all that much but in this game it seems like something that you will eventually have to do. I figure I might as well get it over with now.

[Atma]

An important thing to note is that everyone THINKS they're going to hate ninja, and a lot of people end up really liking it.

Also there is the misconception that ninja is this hyper-expensive job that is going to completely drain your bank account. Ninja is more expensive then most jobs, yes. However, it only becomes super expensive once you get Utsusemi: Ni and become a full-time blink tank. when I did ninja from 1-23 I probably only went through about 4 stacks of shihei, or about 44k at current prices (and that was going full-bore burning through it like it was candy).

[Ellipses]

On the bright side, the party leaders that know better and will invite you as WAR/MNK will also know better about using sushi at such an early level, and you can use meat dishes instead.

[Taodyn]

Might I also suggest capping both Axe and GAxe, and mentioning both in your search comment?

It's small, but might make the difference between you and another WAR your level.

Other than that, I'd agree with the people above. If they want NIN, give them NIN.

Consider it means to an end.

[Thrasher]

Could also try going war/thf for the last few levels and enjoy some quality time with Sneak Attack/Sturmwind:evil: and yes I to die alittle when i see a war/nin in valk. Plus you will need thf leveled for sam 60+ anyways. But war/thf is what got my war to 37 and my little brother is haveing to level thf and great axe so he can finally get war up to lv 37 for his Paladin so you are not alone.

[Lmnop]

I should probably stay away from threads like these, but the unfortunate truth is that you're in the right and the people who want /nin are in the wrong. However, having both available is really nice.

You can always make your own parties.

[Mrfrodo]

Unless you know the details on a specific party build, you're really stretching it to say someone is in the wrong to ask for /nin. I've definitely been in more than one party where healing was a little light, but having a backup war/nin for the NIN main kept the party moving for decent exp at a time when there weren't enough support jobs LFG. As was mentioned, you don't have to level NIN to sub for your war, people will argue forever that /mnk or /thf is better for DoT, but it's not always about DoT, sometimes damage mitigation will mean more for your exp/hour than a little more damage output. Your best bet to avoid leveling it for the time being, is indeed to level with some friends/make your own parties/solo fairly slowly.

[Wertyone]

If you have thf leveled I would go war/thf for the last three levels. As mentioned above Sneak Attack Sturmwind can put out huge numbers.

Make sure that your search comment is up to date. If you want to try and stay War/mnk, I would put in my comment "Trick partner {Do you need it}". As a War/mnk you can be a great trick partner because you can be the first voke and you will have enough defence to limit the amount of damage you will take.

I liked War/thf better because the amount of damage that you can do makes it easy to pull hate from the ninja when his shadows go down and he needs to recast.

My sig lists my sub as ninja only because I am leveling it right now and it has not past my warrior in level.

[AngryUndead]

I need to start leveling my WAR again because I just hit 60/30. My Nin is at 18, so thats good, but my Axe is nowhere near the cap. Thats why I don't want to sub nin and dual wield stuff. I won't hit a darn thing. My BST isn't yet high enough to help me cap it either.

So I'll try and get by with /MNK.

[Amarok]

WAR/NIN is going to be useful in a party as a main/backup tank at lvl27. WAR/MNK is going to be better if you are the spare DD in the party and want to do more DoT. So you want to put in your search comment something about being a DD WAR, and take Dhalmel Pies (not sushi or mithkabobs). However I would also suggest lvling NIN because its a fun job (although say goodbye to any free inventory space if you take all your powders with you), plus you can add Duel Wield to your WAR and lvl your Axe skill nicely. Some BCNMs benefit from NIN sub also.

Having always lvled my cooking with my main job, I have always hunted out the best food for the right lvls, and Sushi at your lvl is overkill and expensive. Don't use Mithkabobs unless you can't get Dhalmel Pies (Windy NPC sells them if you are a Windy citizen and Windy is 1st). Because of the Attack % and caps of Dhalmel Pies vs Mithkabobs, plus the 25extra HP and some other nice attributes, you get more for your money, and they stack nicely too.

I got invited to a party at the weekend as WAR34/NIN17 and I found out there were 3 WAR/NINs in the party so I asked can I come WAR/MNK (I don't have THF lvled), but was told to come WAR/NIN instead. /Sigh I could have contributed much better as a WAR/MNK to DD while the other 2 flipped tanking between them, but alas it wasn't my party so I just grinned and took it on the chin.

[Raydeus]

WAR/NIN is going to be useful in a party as a main/backup tank at lvl27. WAR/MNK is going to be better if you are the spare DD in the party and want to do more DoT.

No, WAR/MNK is a better tank at that lvl than WAR/NIN unless you have at least 2 WAR/NIN to share hate, if you are fighting Mandragoras they eat your shadows fast so you really need a backup, plus /MNK is much better for keeping hate.

After lvl 30 WAR/NIN is a good sata partner if you have a NIN or a PLD tanking but it really isn't that good compared to /MNK. Now, after lvl 50 when you get Dual Weild II that's when /NIN really starts being useful and you start getting access to much better axes too.

So, unless you are hitting so hard that you steal hate too often /NIN isnt required at all at those levels. And really, at those levels a G. Axe is much better anyway.



OP, you can always just solo xp to get 37, mass murdering EP will give you a few k xp an hour, you can do that while looking for party. :thumbsup:

[Ziero]

If you're going to lvl anything as a war sub, lvl Thf. And no, you don't need to lvl Nin to sub to thf. Much like War, Thf can sub Mnk in the early lvls and get better use out of it then /nin and at 30 they can sub war and gain access to that sexy sexy zerk.

End game SAMs might eventually need nin, but you'll worry about that when you get there. Personally I prefer pts that can kill faster to those that survive longer.

Eat Rice Dumplings, they're Sushi, Dhamel Pies and Meat kabobs combined at your lvl. It has the best Att%+ bonus you can get at your lvl, being great all the way until your base att is at 200ish AND it gives you a flat rate +5 acc which is more then any sushi will give you at your lvl. Dhamel meats are great if you're low on funds though.

War/Mnk = Hella awesome tank. I tanked in altep as a War/mnk at your lvl many of times, I tanked in GC and CN and all over as a War/mnk. There's just something sexy about that psuedo-triple attack you get as a War/mnk (Double Attack+Counter).

War/Thf = OmgwtfbbqDMG, where the only job who will have higher WS dmg then you is a decently geared thf and the only people who will have better DoT then you will be totally pimped out players who know what they hell they're doing.

War/nin = Double tank at best, gimped sub at your lvl at worst. And FYI, just because you have to sub nin doesn't mean you have to use two axes. Gaxe is just TOO strong at that lvl, especially the Voluges you'll have access too.

My advice, group with friends, use a search comment and farm while lfg. All melees will have a long wait for invites at your lvl depending on who needs what and who else is seeking. War has an advantage though because it can easily double as a tank which many pts WILL need. So just tough it out and you'll be done in no time.

[kuu]

No, WAR/MNK is a better tank at that lvl than WAR/NIN unless you have at least 2 WAR/NIN to share hate, if you are fighting Mandragoras they eat your shadows fast so you really need a backup, plus /MNK is much better for keeping hate.


Not true. You don't fight onions pass 30, and bats/dhalmels/spiders/pupils will make quick work on a war/mnk. Might as well get a pld with magic, shield skills, and magic(cure 3), with flash and cover soon.

It's your want vs their want.

A war/nin is useful as a 2nd tank that can dish damage.

So being a war/mnk you're being compared to all DDs, who can probably do as much damage as you, and not having the ability which war/nin's can boast.

war/nin's can be trick buddies (very useful since thf's get SATA at 30, and VB at 33) also when nin's don't have ni, so nin's need a 2nd tank anyway.

At 30's you are also fighting some very utsusemi friendly monsters, like bats, dhalmels, spiders. All make war/nin's that much more useful.

So no matter how you whine, and things, strategic choices of a pt leader leaves a war/mnk at the bottom of the DD barrel so to say.

Like Jei says to boaster your worth, you should comment on sushi, etc. But I kind don't really care for comments these days. People who put excessive comments to sell themselves seem to have attitudes to match, which kills pts just as easily.

At 30ish almost any melee subbing /war (most do) get berserk, and just as easily DD as well as a war/mnk, with their own twists.

Drk get SE, sam's get med, thfs SATA, Rng get Barrage, Drg get HJ.

You're in bad company as war/mnk. Someone also sugested war/thf, which is probably better as SA strum is nice, if you can expertly handled the hate and don't die.

[Murphie]

war/nin's can be trick buddies (very useful since thf's get SATA at 30, and VB at 33) also when nin's don't have ni, so nin's need a 2nd tank anyway.

WAR/MNK can also be a trick buddy. I did it from 30-40 with no problems whatsoever. It's ok to get hit from time to time. If your THF is any good you'll only have hate for a moment or two anyway.

So no matter how you whine, and things, strategic choices of a pt leader leaves a war/mnk at the bottom of the DD barrel so to say.

WAR/MNK puts out a rather substantial bit of damage. I'm not sure why you would consider them the bottom of the DD barrel.

But I kind don't really care for comments these days. People who put excessive comments to sell themselves seem to have attitudes to match, which kills pts just as easily.

I'm not sure that there is any corrolary between search comments and the attitude of the player.

At 30ish almost any melee subbing /war (most do) get berserk, and just as easily DD as well as a war/mnk, with their own twists.

At this level range, a WAR isn't going to be doing considerably less damage than a DRK/SAM/DRG, so I don't really see the problem. Yeah, I know about Soul Eater and Meditate etc, but WAR is still an excellent DD during this stretch. I really think that a WAR subbing NIN before Avalance is just handicapping himself.

I mean, I'm totally all for providing what the party needs. But this trend towards everything subbing NIN because apparently taking damage is a sin these days is just a bit ridiculous. We have healers for a reason. If I were a WHM in an Everything/NIN party, I'd be bored to tears. You don't have to throw a bunch of NIN subs at a mob just to get by.

Later on, I'm all for /NIN for WAR. The numbers are there that show that it's a fantastic job comobo, and one of the premier DD's of the game. But now we have people subbing NIN as early as level 10, which is just ridiculous and disappointing.

[AngryUndead]

But I kind don't really care for comments these days. People who put excessive comments to sell themselves seem to have attitudes to match, which kills pts just as easily.
I stopped reading here. I always describe my gear and disposition in my comments to sell myself, and anyone who I have partied with would never describe me as having a bad attitude. As a matter of fact I find those willing to take the time to be descriptive in comments are better than those who say "Party, Can I have It, Experience Points, Yes Please" because they care and take the time to make things better. People who don't seem to be more likely to be of the "WTF OMG! I AM ENTITLED!" group.

[Murphie]

I will never understand why people put EXP Party, Can I have it, Please Invite Me in their search comment.

Folks. It's a green dot. You're LFG. I get it. You want an EXP party. How about some useful info in there? TNL? Subs? HP? Access levels?

[Neomage]

Though NIN is powerful, it is severly overrated. I think we need to go on a NIN-deflation spree of something... make shadows act like Blink when subbed? The only think I know is that NIN is starting to take over the mage jobs. Yesterday I was asked to sub NIN for a party... on my BLM...

>.> It's at 13, and I love NIN DD and solo but I hate blink tanking(not the gil factor, but the actual taking.)

[Raydeus]

stuff

Eh... did you notice the part I quoted where Amarok was talking about lvl 27? Of course you don't kill mandragoras after the jungle. :biggrin:

[Murphie]

Later on, I'm a huge /NIN advocate. But people refuse to get that what works at certain level ranges doesn't necessarily work during others. Certainly not in the Dunes, people.

[Taodyn]

Sadly, this is where idealism meets realism.

NIN is not the best sub for WAR at that level. It's certainly not the only viable sub at that level.

Unfortunately, the majority of people believe WAR/NIN is the only way to go and will not invite anyone that does not conform to that.

What you think is a better sub does not affect your invite rate. Only what they think.

Sadly, you may be stuck with NIN sub, like it or not.

Edit: I do not believe this is right or fair, but it is true. Subs outside what is widely accepted will have a lower rate of invites.

Rationalizing your choice will not change that. It only gives you something to do while LFG.

[Murphie]

Sadly, this is where idealism meets realism.

NIN is not the best sub for WAR at that level. It's certainly not the only viable sub at that level.

Unfortunately, the majority of people believe WAR/NIN is the only way to go and will not invite anyone that does not conform to that.

What you think is a better sub does not affect your invite rate. Only what they think.

Sadly, you may be stuck with NIN sub, like it or not.

Edit: I do not believe this is right or fair, but it is true. Subs outside what is widely accepted will have a lower rate of invites.

Rationalizing your choice will not change that. It only gives you something to do while LFG.

Sad, but true. People were asking me to sub NIN on my WAR when I was rank 2, and just entering Qufim on my first job. They didn't quite comprehend that it wasn't an option. :(

It's really too bad that so few people actually read forums like this. I mean, a lot do, and we get a lot of info out there, and we discuss a lot of things, but there is a huge section of the FFXI population that just doesn't care enough to look this up. Someone tells them that WAR/NIN is where it's at, and that's what sticks.

[Raydeus]

Yep, until WAR gets Avalanche Axe /NIN doesn't really bring anything better than /THF or /MNK subs, and even then Avalanche is still weak compared to Sturmwind.

Now, after lvl 50 /NIN starts to shine as a WAR sub (Dual Weild II), and at lvl 55 with Rampage /NIN becomes a great sub. But before that there's no reason at all to pick /NIN over other subs.

[Ziero]

Well SE said they were gonna do something to make other subs more useful to War so here's hopin it works. My War is 52 now and my three main sub choices, Thf, Nin and Mnk are 50, 41 and 37 respectivly. I'm also lvling Sam and Drk 'just in case' (sam for FB spam late game and Drk cause I wanna see just how much dmg zerk/agg/warcry/LR/SE/MS+RR or SS will do to both the mob and myself >_> ). I also hear that Gaxe usin wars endgame prefer Drg for merit pts so I'll prolly lvl that to at least 37 too.

But that's the thing about War, it's very versitile. With such great abilities built in, it can make full use of almost any other job's abilities without lowering it's capabilities.

[kuu]

I stopped reading here. I always describe my gear and disposition in my comments to sell myself, and anyone who I have partied with would never describe me as having a bad attitude. As a matter of fact I find those willing to take the time to be descriptive in comments are better than those who say "Party, Can I have It, Experience Points, Yes Please" because they care and take the time to make things better. People who don't seem to be more likely to be of the "WTF OMG! I AM ENTITLED!" group.

As I stated the "I" it's my personal opinion that I don't care for comments not "people with excessive comments are bad". Distinct differences.

It doesn't mean they're bad people, but I do see a corrilation to certain people being "elite-ess" especially in earily levels with the amount of "selling" they do, like "50acc 20str, diablos, etc".

I guess the term "hardcore" suits those people, and pt infights are something really annoying to deal with.

This doesn't mean I don't specifically go out to not invite them, I just don't prefer them over a normal comment. like "@3000, sub:thf/nin"

I don't alienate, but I don't nose around resumes either.

Tanking:
Specifically the poster stated he wants to go to 37 only. Reason he has no interest in /nin

This means he's most likely fighting pupils, spiders, dhalmels, bats. Those things are all very evil to /mnk.

I as a pt leader take that in stregticially = "any other options"

a war/mnk is going to last 5 seconds againist a berserk+stomp, or a sickle slash.

war/nin brings a defensive strat to the table while maintaining damage. Other then that, consider options.

[Murphie]

I haven't seen a correlation. I prefer someone provide too much information than too little.

[Armando]

Yep, until WAR gets Avalanche Axe /NIN doesn't really bring anything better than /THF or /MNK subs, and even then Avalanche is still weak compared to Sturmwind.Avalanche Axe is basically the same thing as Raging Axe, except it stacks better with Sneak Attack since all the damage is done in one hit.
This means he's most likely fighting pupils, spiders, dhalmels, bats. Those things are all very evil to /mnk.I don't recall pugils or spiders at 30, much less 34. Dhalmels COULD be done, but most people don't, because they REQUIRE Erase, unless you want your Defense dropped by about 75% from their annoying something-or-another wave move and then get raped hideously. At 34 I think you'd be in Garlaige fighting Beetles and Bats. Yes, Jet Stream is painful, but it's not the end of the world.
a war/mnk is going to last 5 seconds againist a berserk+stomp, or a sickle slash. A Dhalmel can't do Berserk + Stomp consecutively. Berserk should already tip off the healers to keep your HP high, shouldn't it? And, again, no spiders at his level.

Not saying not having /NIN levelled is good, but he can definetely go 3 levels with /MNK. I've used /MNK even at 45 right before I quit WAR. Key to success: Do not overhunt.

[Murphie]

You can also fight Gazers in Eldieme. I did that as a WAR/MNK. Well, I backup tanked. And it was fine. But generally, yeah. Bats are going to be your prey of choice for that range, be it in Garlaige or in Behemoth's Dominion. Of course there are other options, but good luck getting parties to go there.

[Ziero]

This means he's most likely fighting pupils, spiders, dhalmels, bats. Those things are all very evil to /mnk.

I as a pt leader take that in stregticially = "any other options"

a war/mnk is going to last 5 seconds againist a berserk+stomp, or a sickle slash.

war/nin brings a defensive strat to the table while maintaining damage. Other then that, consider options.

I straight tanked, chain 4'd them on my War/Mnk easily. A War/nin is horrible on Dhamels because their DA procs often and WILL wipe shadows out shortly after they're cast and you'll be left with basically a War/nothing for 20 seconds of cure spamming pain.

Then you have to recast. (btw, it won't happen if you're a solo tank)

War/mnk can, will and HAS kicked dhamel ass in altep, it's beaten down bat's in CG and it just CRUSHES crawlers in CN as a tank.

In dual tank scenarios War/Nin is great, assuming both players know how to do their jobs. But a War/Mnk can easily solo tank in these lvls against those mobs.

[kuu]

I don't recall pugils or spiders at 30, much less 34. Dhalmels COULD be done, but most people don't, because they REQUIRE Erase, unless you want your Defense dropped by about 75% from their annoying something-or-another wave move and then get raped hideously. At 34 I think you'd be in Garlaige fighting Beetles and Bats. Yes, Jet Stream is painful, but it's not the end of the world.
A Dhalmel can't do Berserk + Stomp consecutively. Berserk should already tip off the healers to keep your HP high, shouldn't it? And, again, no spiders at his level.

Shadows do just fine againist stomps and berserks.

erase isn't worth it for def down, reason strat comes into play.

I remember doing dhalmels 33-35 then headed to spiders till 38(zone to west) all in about a 4hr span. Nothing wrong with it, just requires knowing how to offset their most evil attacks.

And without shadows, a stomp in red = mages curing = hate fluctuation. There are uses for shadows, warding off such attacks has always been used.

Actually many times you want the dhalmel to go into berserk mode, because that'll just kill him faster. Better then healing breeze.

If you want to play the crawlers nest card, sure, but so will others, and considering options is any good pt leader's job.

[Dooom]

Specifically the poster stated he wants to go to 37 only. Reason he has no interest in /nin

This means he's most likely fighting pupils, spiders, dhalmels, bats. Those things are all very evil to /mnk.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't pugils and some types of bats have double attack? And some bats have TP moves which take away all shadows? Both of these things hurt /nin more than /mnk. Moreover, a war/mnk who can play will hold hate better than a nin or /nin at low levels, and better than almost any pld you'll encounter. voke + boost spam <3.

Personally, I think it's all situational. /thf if I want DD (post 30), /nin for dual-tanking (post 24), and /mnk before those stages and for solo tanking. The OP is the victim of herd mentality, and I have to offer them /comfort. If it helps, my last party in CN twice picked war/mnks over war/nins, both as first voke and DD (yeah, /thf would have been better for DD, but you take what you can sometimes).

[kuu]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't pugils and some types of bats have double attack? And some bats have TP moves which take away all shadows? Both of these things hurt /nin more than /mnk. Moreover, a war/mnk who can play will hold hate better than a nin or /nin at low levels, and better than almost any pld you'll encounter. voke + boost spam <3.

Personally, I think it's all situational. /thf if I want DD (post 30), /nin for dual-tanking (post 24), and /mnk before those stages and for solo tanking. The OP is the victim of herd mentality, and I have to offer them /comfort. If it helps, my last party in CN twice picked war/mnks over war/nins, both as first voke and DD (yeah, /thf would have been better for DD, but you take what you can sometimes).

All monsters get double attack at 15 I believe.

Pupils have that water ball, I don't remember if the erase shadows, don't remember they did. But it's not really an often move.

Bats have no destructive AoE. They have attk down and eva down aoe, I believe. You're thinking of skeleton's which have blood drain.

[Murphie]

I can only gather that the people who are saying that WAR/MNK is nothing more than a drain on the party haven't actually played as one in some time. Because, fact: They aren't. Yes, everything is situational, but I have seen WAR/MNK solo tank and put out good damage time and time again during that level range.

[Ziero]

Jet stream wipes all three shadows out at once, it's a 3 hit move. Same as Gobby rush.

And not all mobs get DA, and some get better DAs then others

[Armando]

Shadows do just fine againist stomps and berserks.If that's your argument, straight tanking it does just fine, too. WAR can have more Defense than PLD if necessary by virtue of Defender (not that I think a WAR/MNK would actually NEED perma-Defender, or should use it for that matter. Hell, I remember straight tanking eating meat back in the old days when I didn't know about defense food.)
erase isn't worth it for def down, reason strat comes into play.Sorry, but if you're going to tank a Dhalmel the old-fashioned way, you NEED Erase for Defense Down. I was a PALADIN (which you yourself stated to be a better choice for a tank) and I was getting raped. My Defense dropped from 200 to about 50. Mobs don't cap their Attack/Defense ratio at 2.0, you know. They can go as high as 4.0. Going from 200 Defense to 50 means you're getting hit for 80-120 damage in a level where you're just breaking 500 if you're Elvaan.
I remember doing dhalmels 33-35 then headed to spiders till 38(zone to west) all in about a 4hr span. Nothing wrong with it, just requires knowing how to offset their most evil attacks.It's possible, but it's also definetely not the popular thing to do. You make it sound as if you will DEFINETELY fight spiders. I didn't tank a spider in EXP until my PLD hit 50 (and it was more trouble than it was worth.)
And without shadows, a stomp in red = mages curing = hate fluctuation. There are uses for shadows, warding off such attacks has always been used.And if you get caught with shadows down? A WAR/NIN alone can't go Ichi -> Ichi and avoid taking hits.
If you want to play the crawlers nest card, sure, but so will others, and considering options is any good pt leader's job.The irony is that you're not considering the options of a WAR/MNK tank. You're simply stating "spiders, bats, and pugils will totally rape a WAR/MNK." We're talking about THREE levels, and odds are he WON'T be facing spiders or pugils. If it's a leader's job to take options into account, I'm sure you can find an EXP spot where a WAR/MNK can tank just fine. A WAR/MNK gets TP faster than a WAR/NIN (unless the WAR/NIN is gimping himself with Sushi) and can keep the mob debuffed with Shield Break or Armor Break. It's VERY easy to rip through mobs when you give them Shield/Armor Break and stick to VTs and low ITs.

[Karinya]

This means he's most likely fighting pupils, spiders, dhalmels, bats. Those things are all very evil to /mnk.

I as a pt leader take that in stregticially = "any other options"

a war/mnk is going to last 5 seconds againist a berserk+stomp, or a sickle slash.

war/nin brings a defensive strat to the table while maintaining damage. Other then that, consider options.
That's just not true. WAR/MNK can *main tank* spiders and dhalmels (if they have the appropriate gear). Suggesting that they're going to collapse like a taru BLM is just lying.

Berserk + stomp, or sonic wave + stomp, are not realistic possibilities unless the mages are idiots. Early berserks should be dispelled, and sonic wave should be erased. Sickle slash is only dangerous (to jobs with armor) if the person is already in the orange from the last couple rounds of double attacks and crits and nobody has cured them yet.


WAR/NIN is not going to match the damage of WAR/MNK. Come close, maybe. Match, no. (Neither one stands up to the damage of WAR/THF.) Boost, Counter and higher STR raise your damage. Utsusemi and Dual Wield I do not.


Furthermore, I don't know if you've noticed, but most parties in the low 30s are fighting SINGLE bats, beetles, and crawlers - all monsters with no particularly dangerous special attacks.

I assume by "pupils" you mean pugils - there's only one place *near* the 30s that parties fight them (that I know of), just outside SSG, and that's even rarer than Altepa parties. Claiming them as a common exp monster for that level range is just silly. And how great does /NIN do against the MNK sahagins in that exact same camp? Wouldn't you rather be able to counter them with a great axe?


On the other hand, Taodyn's point does have some validity: even if only idiots dogmatically prefer /NIN at that level, if enough pt leaders are idiots, you will get more invites with /NIN.

You'll get more invites - but all of the extra invites will be to parties with stupid or ill-informed leaders. Personally, I'd rather LFG a bit longer and then get a *good* group... but it's up to you.

P.S. Armando requested an exp spot where WAR/MNK can tank well: if CN isn't enough for you, try behind the outpost in Zi'Tah. Gobs and flies. It'd probably be a nightmare for a NIN (several AOEs plus the multihit gob rush, and some of the gobs are BST which can mean two monsters on you at a time; warn your puller to be careful of wild monsters linking with BST pets), but no prob for an armor tank which can hold hate off the occasional mid-fight curaga. There's hardly ever anyone there, although you might want to /search Zitah just in case since the camp isn't really big enough for multiple pts.

[kuu]

That's just not true. WAR/MNK can *main tank* spiders and dhalmels (if they have the appropriate gear). Suggesting that they're going to collapse like a taru BLM is just lying.

Berserk + stomp, or sonic wave + stomp, are not realistic possibilities unless the mages are idiots. Early berserks should be dispelled, and sonic wave should be erased. Sickle slash is only dangerous (to jobs with armor) if the person is already in the orange from the last couple rounds of double attacks and crits and nobody has cured them yet.


WAR/NIN is not going to match the damage of WAR/MNK. Come close, maybe. Match, no. (Neither one stands up to the damage of WAR/THF.) Boost, Counter and higher STR raise your damage. Utsusemi and Dual Wield I do not.


Same to you.

I out damaged war/mnk by a third at that level, due to stacking up attk gears and not having to take off berserk.

My raging did 150-300 where a /mnk would sturm for about 180ish full hits, and SA sturm is about 350.

And GA is just slow. This has changed with the TP change so it may no longer be the case. gaxe is now 15 tp I believe.

Defensive purposes, /nin is a look out for any pt leader. You can choose not go /nin, but to deny it's strategical benifits is another matter altogether. It's not a fallacy only a generalized strat used through and through.

Let's not try to over do the "Anything you can do I can do better" song.

[Omni]

im lvling up war for sam/war and im using a mnk sub at war34/mnk17. my problem is that inv are like ...dead. i seeked for about 5-6 hrs and got 1 inv but they asked for a sub nin so i didnt get in the pt.

I do not have nin unlocked and do not want to unlock it or play it. Nin is just not my style at all. all i need is my war 3 lvls and ill be happy.

Also im using a GA and sushi with a venerer's ring and Eisen and the Eisen+1 gear so im not under equiped at all, i dont miss and can really deal out the dmg, i do like war

so any suggestions on what to do? just bear it out or static with LS members i dunno, i dont really have to worry about it until sam is late 60's (15atm) but still it would just be nice to take it all the way then to stop to lvl a sub. can i get some advice please? ^^

while the rest of you are arguing about war tanking again...

try soloing? no, not soloing ep for meager xp... chain 2-3 for decent xp!

grab as much +agi gear you have, some rcc rings, archers knife, a crossbow (power xbow is probably decent enough) a bunch (actually A LOT) of bloodybolts, sushi and proceed to slaughter EM-T mandragoras in yuhtunga jungle. mandragoras attacks are weak.

once yuhtunga mandragoras start giving back less xp, move to yhoator. find a quiet camp and kill the ones there. slap on defender and youre set. you should be able to get yourself to 37-38. you should be able to chain ~2 usually, sometimes 3.

I did this with rng, thf and war from ~34-35 to 37. just dont fight any gobbies and you'll be set. good luck!

[Murphie]

You must have partied with some really terrible WAR/MNKs then. Because their potential is a heck of a lot higher than you're giving them credit for.

You conveniently forget to include counter in your calculations too. That procs a lot. I love countering both of a MNK type mobs attacks. It's awesome.

Edit: The bottom like for me is that as a party leader, a NIN sub isn't a dealbreaker during that level range. I'd prefer a PLD tank or a WAR/MNK tank during those levels. Especially as a healer, as dual WAR/NINs render me somewhat useless except for buffs. That's boring as hell.

[kuu]

while the rest of you are arguing about war tanking again...

try soloing? no, not soloing ep for meager xp... chain 2-3 for decent xp!

grab as much +agi gear you have, some rcc rings, archers knife, a crossbow (power xbow is probably decent enough) a bunch (actually A LOT) of bloodybolts, sushi and proceed to slaughter EM-T mandragoras in yuhtunga jungle. mandragoras attacks are weak.

once yuhtunga mandragoras start giving back less xp, move to yhoator. find a quiet camp and kill the ones there. slap on defender and youre set. you should be able to get yourself to 37-38. you should be able to chain ~2 usually, sometimes 3.

I did this with rng, thf and war from ~34-35 to 37. just dont fight any gobbies and you'll be set. good luck!

Don't forget NPC! even new players get npcs at 30, so just right to semi duo.

After a few times, they can do the prov quest for the tatics too.

[Ziero]

while the rest of you are arguing about war tanking again...

try soloing? no, not soloing ep for meager xp... chain 2-3 for decent xp!

grab as much +agi gear you have, some rcc rings, archers knife, a crossbow (power xbow is probably decent enough) a bunch (actually A LOT) of bloodybolts, sushi and proceed to slaughter EM-T mandragoras in yuhtunga jungle. mandragoras attacks are weak.

once yuhtunga mandragoras start giving back less xp, move to yhoator. find a quiet camp and kill the ones there. slap on defender and youre set. you should be able to get yourself to 37-38. you should be able to chain ~2 usually, sometimes 3.

I did this with rng, thf and war from ~34-35 to 37. just dont fight any gobbies and you'll be set. good luck!

That's actually a good idea XD

I soloed my Mnk 34-35 on mandies outside Kazham. It was quiet possibly the most fun I had getting exp. Somethin about all the countering and guarding and crits and misses, goin one on one with a mandy is down right fun. XD

I'd prolly prefer a Gaxe myself with /mnk sub because, as stated earlier, counter on mandies is FUN. Throw in some au'laits and such and they'll be no problem.

[Armando]

While we're on the subject of soloing, I'd like to point out that it's possible to take out a mob solely with Sleep Bolts if you're willing to pay, and never take damage. I'd also like to point out that the drain effect from Bloody Bolts DOES hurt the enemy, so don't be fooled entirely by its poor DMG rating.

[Ziero]

I love bloody bolts, the drain effect ignores def on most things so it'll often do MUCH more dmg then even melee hits against certain mobs. Farming eles with bloodies is way too fun btw, and slimes are just pathetic with bloodies.

[Credos]

Not true. You don't fight onions pass 30, and bats/dhalmels/spiders/pupils will make quick work on a war/mnk. Might as well get a pld with magic, shield skills, and magic(cure 3), with flash and cover soon.

It's your want vs their want.

A war/nin is useful as a 2nd tank that can dish damage.

So being a war/mnk you're being compared to all DDs, who can probably do as much damage as you, and not having the ability which war/nin's can boast.

war/nin's can be trick buddies (very useful since thf's get SATA at 30, and VB at 33) also when nin's don't have ni, so nin's need a 2nd tank anyway.

At 30's you are also fighting some very utsusemi friendly monsters, like bats, dhalmels, spiders. All make war/nin's that much more useful.

So no matter how you whine, and things, strategic choices of a pt leader leaves a war/mnk at the bottom of the DD barrel so to say.

Like Jei says to boaster your worth, you should comment on sushi, etc. But I kind don't really care for comments these days. People who put excessive comments to sell themselves seem to have attitudes to match, which kills pts just as easily.

At 30ish almost any melee subbing /war (most do) get berserk, and just as easily DD as well as a war/mnk, with their own twists.

Drk get SE, sam's get med, thfs SATA, Rng get Barrage, Drg get HJ.

You're in bad company as war/mnk. Someone also sugested war/thf, which is probably better as SA strum is nice, if you can expertly handled the hate and don't die.

WAR/NIN before level 50 is Gimp. WAR/MNK or WAR/THF is better by far.

How exactly are bats, Spiders, and Dhamels "NIN friendly" mobs? Slow, Evasion Down, Defense down and Silence.... don't sound too NIN friendly to me.

WAR/NIN can be trick buddy, a gimp trick buddy but one just the same. You'd be better off getting two NIN and a THF then do Rin > SATAVB for a Solid Distortion if damage mitigation is your only concern.

Funny, you comment about "excessive" search comments. I don't party with people who don't check my search comment, or /tell me with the proper information before joining. Are you a "party?" kind of person? If so it would explain your misunderstandings about the WAR job.

I remember when Warriors in respective forums would -rip- apart someone who said subbing /NIN is better than /MNK or /THF. I guess those days are long gone.

Double Post Edited:
Shadows do just fine againist stomps and berserks.

erase isn't worth it for def down, reason strat comes into play.

I remember doing dhalmels 33-35 then headed to spiders till 38(zone to west) all in about a 4hr span. Nothing wrong with it, just requires knowing how to offset their most evil attacks.

And without shadows, a stomp in red = mages curing = hate fluctuation. There are uses for shadows, warding off such attacks has always been used.



Apologies for the double post... but are you serious? It's not worth erasing main tank when they have defense down? Maybe thats why you're tanks are in the red.

WAR does not evade. NIN barely evades at that level. What are you talking about here?

I think the worst thing about NIN is that it's become the crutch for people to use when they have no imagination. Between WHM who will only PT with NIN, BRD who refuse to PT with PLD, and everyone thinking /NIN is the way to go, its a suprise this game isn't broken.

[Icemage]

Re: WAR/NIN

One thing that irks me about WAR/NINs I run into at lower levels is their god-forsaken insistence on using two 1 handed axes before level 50, in the mistaken belief that they're attacking faster because they're holding two weapons. I'm sorry, but it just isn't true unless you're wearing Sarashi, and even there the difference is minimal.

Ditto for NIN/anything prior to level 25.

Give me a pre-50 WAR/NIN using 1 Axe + Shield. Much better damage mitigation, and no loss of offense.

---

Re: WAR/MNK

WAR/MNK tanks quite acceptably with the right gear and eating the right foods. I've had a Tarutaru WAR/MNK tank crabs and pugils in Cape Teriggan quite capably - he couldn't hold hate off of Freeze MB most of the time, but honestly... most tanks can't anyway, especially not a WAR/NIN.


Icemage

[Armando]

Actually, Icemage, Dual Wield I decreases Delay by 10%. What ticks me off is that they insist on using axes when Great Axe will do more damage. Likewise, the statement "WAR/NIN favors axes, WAR/THF favors Great Axe" ticks me off as well.

[Icemage]

Actually, Icemage, Dual Wield I decreases Delay by 10%. What ticks me off is that they insist on using axes when Great Axe will do more damage. Likewise, the statement "WAR/NIN favors axes, WAR/THF favors Great Axe" ticks me off as well.

Really? I was under the impression that Dual Wield I only gave the ability to equip a second weapon, and you only got a speed boost at Dual Wield II+. Not true?


Icemage

[Omni]

Not true.

Dual wield I gives a 10% delay decrease.
DWII: bumps it up 5% to 15% total decrease
DWIII: goes to 25% total decrease
DWIII: goes to 30% total decrease in delay.

Though I dont blame you for not noticing. the only DW that makes a noticable difference is DWIII+

[Armando]

Definetely a myth, I have tested it myself (via TP.) However, Raging Axe, even when Dual Wielded, won't match the power of Sturmwind (or the effects in overall damage that a Break will do.) There only two reasons to use Axe pre-50 are 1) for whatever reason you need to use Smash Axe for stun; 2) You need Smash Axe's Induration property to open Fragmentation (but you would probably be better off settling for a level 1 Skillchain using a stronger WS,) and 3) you want Detonation really badly (lol).

EDIT: Oops, Omni-Ragnarok got there first. ^^;

[Icemage]

Fascinating. 10% decrease doesn't do much to delay values, unfortunately, especially with the recent changes to TP gain, which seem to slightly favor slower weapons overall from what I can tell. I don't think 1H axes are fast enough to be negatively impacted by the changes, though. I guess you do attack faster, but not enough to offset the negative defensive effects of not having a shield (also there are quite a few low level shields that add +ATK such as lantern shield (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/1630) which can offset the minor effect of speedier attacks, since TP generation isn't generally affected by this).

Axe weaponskills prior to Rampage are also disgustingly underwhelming in both effect and damage (compared versus the extremely powerful and useful Great Axe weaponskills available, such as Shield Break and Sturmwind).


Icemage

[kuu]

Axe weaponskills prior to Rampage are also disgustingly underwhelming in both effect and damage (compared versus the extremely powerful and useful Great Axe weaponskills available, such as Shield Break and Sturmwind).


Icemage

Not true, 1h axe WS flutucates somewhat more greatly, but by no means are they unimpressive numbers.

Raging and avalanche, are pretty much 2 sides of the same coin, but I prefered raging due to fusion, can put up impressive numbers.

I have hit 350+70ish fusion on a chicken with raging(probably da and crit activation), but it puts up decent numbers. But putting up 150ish raging is pretty common. That's pretty much beats breaks which are more for stat effects then damage.

(And I'm not an elvvan so str isn't even figured into that)

(heck I can grab a gaxe with my lvl 75 war and can't sturm much more, due to caps)

Also due to the setup of a war/nin can give one a sick amount of damage customization vs non shadow users who have to regulate their hate more.

Not having to cancel berserk also makes for good amount of damage(having 80ish def is owie lower then mages I believe at that level)

Can a war/mnk do just as well? Who knows, too many situations, but having shadows juggling hate beats not having it.

It's a trade off.

Before TP change, war/nin's used to be prefered because a slow swing GA with 12tp is underwelming(now 15ish), but times change, and I can't live through the same ranges. So that may have changed, certainly more favorably, but not dominating. And before food changed, vikings >all, but that's thinking to far back.

There seems to be vocal war/mnk love, but justified or not, I'll say it again, it's not "stereotypical" to be war/nin, choose a war/nin as a pt lead, and most finally:

War/nin's don't "suck".

PT leaders know that, and reason 1st poster lfg for a good amount of time.

[Armando]

Not true, 1h axe WS flutucates somewhat more greatly, but by no means are they unimpressive numbers.

Raging and avalanche, are pretty much 2 sides of the same coin, but I prefered raging due to fusion, can put up impressive numbers.

I have hit 350+70ish fusion on a chicken with raging(probably da and crit activation), but it puts up decent numbers. But putting up 150ish raging is pretty common. That's pretty much beats breaks which are more for stat effects then damage.

(And I'm not an elvvan so str isn't even figured into that)

(heck I can grab a gaxe with my lvl 75 war and can't sturm much more, due to caps)Problem is, any impressive number that Axe puts up can be exceed by Great Axe. Axe WS ARE underwhelming, the only reason they're remotely good is because WAR can have both Berserk and Dual Wield's extra hit at the same time. You'd have a hard time replicating those numbers as a BST or RNG. Either way, a Sturmwind is still stronger than a 3-hit Raging Axe even without Sneak Attack, and -40 Evasion or -25% Defense is even more valuable in my opinion.
Before TP change, war/nin's used to be prefered because a slow swing GA with 12tp is underwelming(now 15ish), but times change, and I can't live through the same ranges. So that may have changed, certainly more favorably, but not dominating. And before food changed, vikings >all, but that's thinking to far back.You can't call a Great Axe swing slow and then pretend double axes aren't slow. The typical great axe has 504 Delay, whereas the typical Axe has 276; 276 * 2 * 0.90 = 496 total Delay. 8 Delay is a laughable difference, less than 1/6th of a second. Axes don't start coming with more than half of a Great Axe's DMG until C.C. Axes, either. In short, Great Axe is better pre-48 in most situations, regardless of the sub, so a WAR/NIN may as well use it.
There seems to be vocal war/mnk love, but justified or not, I'll say it again, it's not "stereotypical" to be war/nin, choose a war/nin as a pt lead, and most finally:

War/nin's don't "suck".

PT leaders know that, and reason 1st poster lfg for a good amount of time.It's not a matter of there being a lot of WAR/MNK love, it's that you were using horrible/irrelevant/mistaken arguments to try to sustain the point that WAR/MNK can't tank nearly as well. The supposed vocal WAR/MNK loving was just people setting the record straight. While we're at it, general concensus is not always right. After all, that's why you see WAR/NINs in the dunes, and why you don't see WARs swinging Great Axes in the low levels, and why DRGs supposedly sucked. I dare say that most players are ignorant, and only "know" WAR/NIN is good because of all the lowbies that jumped on the WAR/NIN bandwagon once they saw what WAR/NIN can do in the post-50 levels.

[Ryuumu]

Take it from a fellow high lvl WAR, you should sub ninja, but if your not going full Warrior to 75, dont worry about it really, if its only to 37 you shouldnt care, but other wise you must sub ninja, thats why everyone likes warrior.

[Spinnthrift]

As was written in another thread.. if you have Military Picks (at lower levels) they'll out DD A G.AXe but....

You'd be losing Shield Break. :cry:

[Icemage]

Thing with Great Axe and the Break WSs is that it's sort of like being a bard; you don't contribute as much yourself but you make the rest of your party perform that much better.

That's what makes Shield Break the MVP of the early weaponskills. It's not that it lets YOU do that much more damage (though this is a nice plus)... it's that it lets the rest of your party members also do more damage.


Icemage

[ValisOfValefor]

And besides, if you keep Great axe leveld by the end you get full break, which (if unresisted) is like a weaker (about 12.5% reduction in attack and defense, and -20 evasions and accuracy) version of all the breaks in one.

[Roidrage]

It may just be because of my low level, but at lvl 22 WAR/MNK i get mad if i dont get an invite within 30 min. of putting my flag up. usually ill get an invite while screwing around in jueno within 5-10 min of me seeking a party. i have yet to have anyone ask me to sub NIN which is great since i am only on my first character. i dont want to have to sub NIN when i finally get to unlock just because everyone else does. but sadly i know im gonna have to have it as an option if a pt wants it as my sub for WAR.

[Ellipses]

It may just be because of my low level, but at lvl 22 WAR/MNK i get mad if i dont get an invite within 30 min. of putting my flag up. usually ill get an invite while screwing around in jueno within 5-10 min of me seeking a party. i have yet to have anyone ask me to sub NIN which is great since i am only on my first character. i dont want to have to sub NIN when i finally get to unlock just because everyone else does. but sadly i know im gonna have to have it as an option if a pt wants it as my sub for WAR.
You're going to be one angry, angry person when you get past level 30 or so. Half an hour is a short wait for a party invite.

No one worth partying with will ask you to sub NIN before 24. Between 24 and 30, most people should understand about not having it unlocked, though they'll probably still prattle on and on about it like it's sex on wheels.

[Mhurron]

It may just be because of my low level, but at lvl 22 WAR/MNK i get mad if i dont get an invite within 30 min
I would suggest lowering your expectations, by a whole lot. It is not strange for every job to wait a lot longer then 30 minutes. How many people are partying or lfg at your level range will effect your wait time. How many people who want to party of other jobs will effect your wait time, no party is going to be formed if there are 50 people searching but none of them are healers for instance. Your proximity to an existing party will effect your chances of an invite. A party in Qufim that needs a replacement will choose someone in Jeuno over someone out farming while they lfg so if your the one farming, expect to wait longer.

In short, relax, if you don't get an exp group that evening it's not the end of the world.

[IfritnoItazura]

Invite rate isn't that bad for WAR on Ifrit. I had five invites on Sunday, and I didn't have seek flag on at all.

* * *

WAR/NIN may not necessarily be gimped compared to WAR/MNK, even at Lv.30. Our LS had a Promyvion-Holla +ENM run on Sunday, and the physical DD's were WAR/NIN x2, RNG/NIN x2. One of the RNG's parsed the results:

The top DD was WAR/NIN with sword x2, followed by the RNG's (one gun, one crossbow), then by the WAR/NIN with Great Axe. I don't think /MNK would add that much more damage to the WAR with Great Axe. From top to bottom DD, the difference was about 4%.

* * *

I was the WAR/NIN with Great Axe (no money for Military Pick x2), and I took pretty much the same gear to exp party afterwards on WAR/MNK. Party leader wanted DD and didn't let me use Shield Break (or wanted /THF sub... odd...). I ended up as the top DD in party while munching on the same food, Dhalmel Pie, so I don't think my gear was that bad. >_>;

Of course, top DD isn't always a good thing to be; I spent a lot of time with Defender up and turtled up behind my defense/VIT gear set macro.

* * *

Anyway, the real points are the five invites for my WAR32 when not seeking; I was online and not in party (or /away) for about 3 hrs Sunday. Two invites came while I was on WAR/NIN trying to get ready for Promyvion-Holla, three of them when I was on WAR/MNK afterwards. (Wanted to tank, but was mostly AFK for 2hrs so didn't put up the flag. ^_^; )

Hang in there; invite rate shouldn't be that bad for WAR/MNK--at least not for long.