Macro gearswap limit

[Tomatoes]

How are you guys handling the macro gearswap limits? I'm finding that I often have more than 5 pieces of gears I'd like to swap in for a given spell, but those 5 macro lines are usually taken up by earring x2, ring x2, ele.staff. So far, I've been doing it in sequence. My rest macro swaps in +HMP gears. My getting up macro swaps in mostly +INT stuff, which I follow up with INT based enfeebles. Then I Para with partial swap, and then Slow swaps in the rest of the MND stuff.

I'm considering reworking the whole scheme and just dedicating 3 macros simply to armor-type swaps, INT, MND, resting (maybe a nuking set for #4?) and typing /heal manually when I want to sit/rise. And then for the actual spell macros, keep them all strictly ring/ring/earring/earring/staff/spell. I guess this will give me more flexibility at the cost of hitting 2 macros per spell sometimes. It just seems terribly inefficient.

With 4 dedicated armor-swap macros, that would leave me 16 slots left for Regen, Cure II, Cure III, Cure IV, Drain/Barxxx,Erase (in one more level), Aspir/adjustable -na spell, Convert (w/ HP/MP swaps), Slow, Paralyze, Dia/Bio, adjustable nuke, Haste, Refresh, /target bt + /recasts, Sleep, Silence, Gravity, Blind, Poison... I think that's more than 16.

I have the magic menu arranged alphabetically and I'm pretty decent about getting a non-macro'd spell out in a timely fashion, but man I hate scrambling like that. Maybe I should spread some of the less time-crucial macros over to an adjacent pallette? Ugh.... :(

(haven't even begun to think about an efficient solo pallette yet either... blargh)

[Feba]

Most people use a thirdparty macro system...which I can't lead you to here.


Anyway, if you had to work with the ingame macros, i'd reccomend just going for balance.

[Neomage]

As feba said it. You could probably IM him for it, it lets you have infinite lines... I have the programs to make infinite line macros but I don't know how >.>

[Icemage]

I don't see much need for any tools beyond what the game provides if you're smart about your macro organization and gear choice.

Even on RDM (my most intense gear-swapping job to be certain), I do OK with just 1 swap into MP gear (for Convert, 6 pieces, plus 2 more in the Convert macro itself for a total of 8), and an Enfeebling swap for 6 pieces. The rest of the gear I "could" macro in ends up not affecting my performance enough to worry about.

Generally speaking, at level 51+ you'll be swapping in at least two pieces of gear on each spell or ability macro anyway (elemental staves for spells, +STR gear for WS, +enmity gear for Provoke, etc.), so you can leave those out of your swaps. At worst you'll probably have 4 additional macro slots to switch 12 of the remaining 14 slots in your equip window, and most people get by with just two extra macros.


Icemage

[Jei]

i use only ingame macro too. when I play Rdm I use 3 macro pages, with 1 page dedicated to gear swap. I have my BLM gear swap macro in that pages too, don't really need all that much.

For refresh, I macro on only 2 gears for fast cast. AF1 hat AF2 body.
Then I macro back on my auto refresh gear. It only has /equip Body vermy cloak. no other pieces really needed to be in the macro here.

Same thing for every enfeebles too. I have macro for elemental staffs, enfeeble torque, AF1 body and hopefully AF2 hat. So they are all manageable within 5 lines.
Again once done I macro my auto refresh back on.

For stoneskin I added 3-4 MND and enhancing pieces.

Well anyway, I don't have any macro that equip more than 4 pieces. I have a seperate macros for full AF1 and AF2 sets but those are more for fun when I wanna run around in them.

[Aeni]

I have Windower, but I stick to the ingame function only, since I only wanted the Alt-Tab-ability in Windower. I go for balance and use common sense. Look at my racial strength and weakness and build upon them. Example, if I was a tarutaru mage, I wouldn't have to focus on +mp whoring. I'd look into other areas to improve in.

I see mages whine on the Windower forums about how they couldn't get access to their infinite line macro (When ToAU was released) I think they're mostly {Too weak} players who buy their gils and consequently use methods to exploit the game to their hearts content. Not saying that's true of all 3rd party infinite line macro users, but it certainly seems that way to me when I read their whiny baby posts on that forum.

[Feba]

I see mages whine on the Windower forums about how they couldn't get access to their infinite line macro (When ToAU was released) I think they're mostly {Too weak} players who buy their gils and consequently use methods to exploit the game to their hearts content. Not saying that's true of all 3rd party infinite line macro users, but it certainly seems that way to me when I read their whiny baby posts on that forum.

Your car breaks down. You complain, even though you could ride your bike, or even walk.


I think you do drugs.

[Bishop]

Why are you getting all defensive feba? Did you fall into the category he just mentioned? Aeni clearly stated that its not true for all 3rd party macro users. In addition, he even mentioned that it was his OPINION and that it only seems that way to him. At least he has basis for his judgement. People who find ways to exploit the game (in this case, the infiminite macro program) would logically continue finding different exploits. But what the hell does drugs have to do with my car breaking down?

[Dryhus]

Feba was trying to point out that it isn't fair to make a broad conclusion that has nothing to do with the complaint.

I "grew up" on RDM, and I became accustomed to macro-whoring. If something was affected by a stat, you'd better believe I had a gear swap for it. I found Windower, which expanded those capabilties and did things that FFXI macros SHOULD do. If I run Macro2, it will interrupt Macro1's /wait line? That's pointless. I was upset when I couldn't use these macros after the ToAU update. Maybe he was referring to me as a gilbuyer, maybe he was referring to someone else. The point is, how he drew the conclusion that ANYONE who was upset at a broken Windower is a gilbuyer, I have no idea.

[Patchinko]

Can't we use the /console exec command in conjunction with a file we make externally to change as much equipment as we'd like?

E.g. Make a file named "mnd_gear.ffxi" that contains a list of /equip commands to equip all of your mnd+ gear and then put /console exec "mnd_gear.ffxi" in a normal macro to execute it?

I haven't had need to try it myself yet.

[Dryhus]

Can't we use the /console exec command in conjunction with a file we make externally to change as much equipment as we'd like?

E.g. Make a file named "mnd_gear.ffxi" that contains a list of /equip commands to equip all of your mnd+ gear and then put /console exec "mnd_gear.ffxi" in a normal macro to execute it?

I haven't had need to try it myself yet.

This is EXACTLY what I do with RDM macros, though using /con in favor of /console. I use Windower and FFXI macros in conjunction with each other.

[Bishop]

The point is, how he drew the conclusion that ANYONE who was upset at a broken Windower is a gilbuyer, I have no idea.

I see what you're trying to say and I understand. I don't fully agree with aeni as well. But since it was his observations, and not mine, I can't really disagree with it. In addition, he didn't say ALL players that were upset about these programs buy gil or whatever. He just says that "most" seemed that way to him. I just saw some correlation to what aeni was saying, but none at all in feba's comment, which prompted me to write that post.

[Patchinko]

This is EXACTLY what I do with RDM macros, though using /con in favor of /console. I use Windower and FFXI macros in conjunction with each other.

Does it still work? I might try it if it does, because it seems that in the coming levels there is an abundance of good gear replacements coming.

[Dryhus]

Does it still work? I might try it if it does, because it seems that in the coming levels there is an abundance of good gear replacements coming.

It does still work. My Slow macro looks like this:

/recast Slow
/ma Slow <stnpc>
/equip main "Earth Staff"
/con exec mind.txt

[Jei]

I don't know if this matters much but I feel a lot safer to have /equip above the actual spell casting. For instant abilities I even put /wait 1 after gear swapping.

[Feba]

I just saw some correlation to what aeni was saying, but none at all in feba's comment,

There is no difference. The point is, just because you do one thing for convineance, doesn't mean you do another thing which hurts people. He basically accused most of us of buying gil, then sort of backed out at the end.

To the people above, you'd get more help on windower forums.

Double Post Edited:
and I agree with Jei, on quick casting spells, put the /equip first.


Although for BLM, I just programmed my G15 macros to switch ele staves; picked a spell from the magic menu, pressed the staff swap, then waited. Gotta love -ga II spells

[Murphie]

I've always managed just fine with the system macros. I think if you really think about what is necessary for a gear swap, and not just fancy, you'll probably find you have all the space you need.

Still, I can see where having extra macro lines would be handy once in a while.

And yeah, total agreement re: putting /equip first on stuff like that.

[Feba]

the most useful things I could see for a mass equip macro, personally, is for Strip/Strip-ga moves.

I'm sure the BLMs who have to swap out Staff, Hat, necklace, earrings, body, possibly rings and cape, obis, legs, and feet love this though


And with more hMP EQ coming out lately, it's more useful for that too.

[Murphie]

You could always just have two macros for gear swaps if you can't swap it all in one. Not ideal, but not the end of the world either.

There isn't any reason why anyone has to use tools not provided by SE. I definitely understand why people do, but it's not a must.

[Dryhus]

I don't know if this matters much but I feel a lot safer to have /equip above the actual spell casting. For instant abilities I even put /wait 1 after gear swapping.

While it's certainly a matter of preference and I have no intention of telling anyone else how to play the game, I can tell you that /equip lines are executed nearly instantaneously in Windower...faster than in FFXI. That is, you can start casting Stun and have 30 equip swaps done before the spell lands.

If you're talking strictly FFXI macros, you may have a point. As an example, in FFXI you can have the following lines
/equip ring1 "Snow Ring"
/equip ring2 "Snow Ring"
work flawlessly. Not so in Windower, since it equips the gear so quickly that by the time it gets to the second ring, the first one is still showing as unequipped. It causes some gear to not get swapped in. Consequently, in Windower you have to take the following approach:
input /equip ring1 "Snow Ring";
input /equip main "Wind Staff";
input /equip neck "Enfeebling Torque";
input /equip head "Duelist's Chapeau";
input /equip body "Warlock's Tabard";
input /equip ring2 "Snow Ring"

[sevenpointflaw]

Well, intersting topic and all. But another thing to consider about the FFXI macro system is that it is broken. By broken I mean, it eats macros. I can't tell you how many time's I've had to press... and repress... and press again... just to get one spell off. The FFXI macro system does -not- like lag at all in my opinion, and when I am trying to flash a mob so I can get stoneskin up to save my hide, I want those macros to work.

Consequently, I don't use the FFXI macro system. I suppose the interesting thing to that is that I looked back over all my macros and they -do- work in the FFXI macro system as well. My longest one is 3lines long, but then I'm a WHM and don't have near as many equip swaps yet.

/equip Main "Light Staff"
/equip Main "Dark Staff"
/heal

[Jei]

why do you equip light and then dark right after?

[Murphie]

I was wondering the same thing. I'm also amazed that you made as far as you have as WHM and have never had any gear swap macros. I played it to 65, and while I didn't swap too often, I did swap occasionally. Then again, I often had to macro in extra MP and HMP gear while resting, and then macro back into regular casting gear for certain spells, so maybe I was just making it more complicated than necessary. I dunno.

[sevenpointflaw]

why do you equip light and then dark right after?

Lets assume I'm standing up and curing, and look at the macro line by line.

/equip Main "Light Staff" - Light Staff already equiped; this line is ignored
/equip Main "Dark Staff" - Since this staff isn't equiped, it starts to equip it
/heal - and now that we have Dark Staff equiped, we sit down.

Now lets assume I'm sitting down, and have my Dark Staff equiped, becuase I just used the macro and... well... switched to Dark Staff.

/equip Main "Light Staff" - Not equiped, so it starts to equip this
/equip Main "Dark Staff" - Still processing Light Staff /equip, so this line ignored
/heal - Stand back up, having equiped the Light Staff

Basicly, it takes a whole /wait 1 to equip a piece of equipment. Normally this isn't noticed because you aren't equiping something to the same slot you just equiped. But because of this, two back to back equips to the same slot don't work. You -can- however, swap out two different pieces of gear at the same time, or /heal while you are still processing an /equip command.

In short, as long as the /equip for Light and Dark staff do not have a /wait 1 between them, it will work to have a single heal macro. Maybe just a "feature" of the /equip command, maybe an actual feature. Either way, I find it very useful for any situation I'm main healing, since it means I have one macro for taking a knee.

It lets me also have no /equip in my actual /ma macros for curing which makes <stpc> all the more useful sans /wait commands, and to top it off if I have to interupt a long spell (like Stoneskin or Blink) in order to heal someone, I can just hit my macro twice (to intertupt my current spell) and be back on the Light Staff to toss out that cure.

Put things in the right order, and you can also do it with a maul/shield/dark staff combo.

Try it sometime. :) Works with the normal FFXI macro system, no special software needed.

Double Post Edited:
I was wondering the same thing. I'm also amazed that you made as far as you have as WHM and have never had any gear swap macros. I played it to 65, and while I didn't swap too often, I did swap occasionally. Then again, I often had to macro in extra MP and HMP gear while resting, and then macro back into regular casting gear for certain spells, so maybe I was just making it more complicated than necessary. I dunno.

Its been so long since I've been in a party where I had to enfeeble that I stopped carying +MND/+INT gear with me, so I have nothing to swap. MP wise, I'm fine with a focus on +HMP 'cause of the overcompensations taru's have in the base MP department. So again, nothing to swap. :)

[Murphie]

I just always macroed my wand or later on staves into my heals, so I didn't need it in my resting macro. (I found that just having /heal on kept me from randomly standing when I hit th e macro too fast/twice, etc). But everyone has a different style.^^;

[Jei]

interesting.

I have macro for resting with all the HMP gear and darkstaff in it. And a cute little macro next to it for eating cookie.
I don't put /heal into this macro, sometimes when im all ready to sit, someone's refresh might wear off.
When I stand up I usually just move my analogue around randomly. As Rdm I stand up and have to do all sort of things, enfeeble, cure, refresh etc etc so for me it's easier to put the equip staff in my spell macros instead.

[Icemage]

You have time to rest as RDM, Jei? :P I'm lucky if I get 2 ticks per hour these days - usually I get 0 per hour. These Aht Urhgan zones are a lot of fun and very rewarding, but it's really hard on us RDMs keeping these roaming parties moving...

I solve the Light/Healing/Dark staff problem by just macroing in my Healing/Light Staff when casting cures (along with a Raven Beret for -enmity).


Icemage

[Jei]

before 72 - a lot of time to sit. After 72, not much. Especially for moving PT or merit, only sit when we have like a bathroom break or something.

Only been to limbus as BLM so no idea how's RDM like in there. o.O

but here's the cool thing. whm, rdm blm, i can share the same sitting macro ^^ so it's useful anyway.

[WishMaster3K]

but it's really hard on us RDMs keeping these roaming parties moving...

Amen, brotha. Glad you finally decided to level RDM past 65 /stare. . .

Oh, Aeni is a female.

And the in-game macro works fine, I don't know why people have problems. . . Maybe a lack of ingenuity?

For one thing, I realized how excessive a lot of things are, and there is a lot of gear that just isn't required to be switched in and out.

I just tried typing out a system, but my system is too complex, and it's too late, so nvm. Basic Macro:

Spell
Stave
Neck
Body
Legs
Ring

I don't need two rings in exp anymore, the effect is negligable;
I don't need to macro out Feet and Hand gear;
I sold Wise gear and went in favor of higher stats (Paralyze Procs WAY more often now with Errant body + Legs instead of AF Body and JSE Legs);

And a bunch of other things such as P. Rope, Prism cape and etc. No need to take a ring like the Tamas off, period, so only one ring is needed anyway. . .

Idk, when I was lower, there was SO much gear, I felt daunted. I had to macro in Devotee for MND, then macro it out for INT, macroed in Black and White capes seperately, had entire sets of gear. . .

Blah, no more. I'm at Zen with my macros. I have perfect timing. 5 lines is more than enough.

[Hamlet]

Paralyze Procs WAY more often now with Errant body + Legs instead of AF Body and JSE Legs)

Call me crazy, but my enfeebs seemed to land more with errant body more than AF1 body. I just tried it with one party in Ulegard Range because I was having alot of resists, and I didn't get one resist until I tried to sleep a dark mob's elemental. I later learned this is a really bad idea lol, and it wasn't the fault of my Errant, it was the fault of it being resistant to dark.

Could be a fluke, but in a small sample, errant was better for enfeebs (and we already know it's better for nuking), and it'll be nice to not have to switch out after healing to AF1.

I'll try some more with errant in my next pts.

[TheGrandMom]

You have time to rest as RDM, Jei? :P I'm lucky if I get 2 ticks per hour these days - usually I get 0 per hour. These Aht Urhgan zones are a lot of fun and very rewarding, but it's really hard on us RDMs keeping these roaming parties moving...

I solve the Light/Healing/Dark staff problem by just macroing in my Healing/Light Staff when casting cures (along with a Raven Beret for -enmity).


Icemage

I could almost cry when I read "...but it's really hard on us RDMs keeping these roaming parties moving..." I just had a huge discussion with some of my LS mates about this. I'm not a huge fan of roaming pts but as soon as I change to rdm, I get invites or my ls tries to pull me away from whatever I'm doing to merit with them too. As far as swaps for merit pt's in the new areas, Staves are about the only ones I worry about. Nearly every single macro I have has a stave swap. I leave full gear swaps to seperate macros. A piece here or there is macro'd in to whatever macro I'm using.

[Tomatoes]

Wow, lot of posts to get to. So far, from what I've skimmed, you guys are saying pick the 5 most pertinent pieces to macro and don't fret too much about stat-whoring to the max?

Wishmaster, I know what you mean. I'm still at the dev.mitts<->sly.gaunts, magic.cuis<->af.pants<->baron.slops, etc stage. I wanna do morion/phantom<->geist<->mold<->antivenom as well, but damn, I only have so much gil to play with before I start to poke holes in my walletaru.

As for windower macros, thanks but no thanks. sevenpoint and dryhus, I agree with you that the in-game macro system can be really ghetto at times. But I feel, like TParty, windower macros constitutes borderline cheating. I love windower, but just so I can chat and read stuff online while I'm logged in. I don't want any kind of advantage that a PS2 player wouldn't have access too.

Anyway, time for study/work. T.T)

[Raydeus]

I use 3 equip swap macros, generic MND, INT and MP (for convert), then on each spell/action macro I add specific equipment, so a macro set is more than enough to handle all the spells I need.

I do have diferent macro sets for each sub though, /whm set, /blm set, etc. but many macros just repeat in each set, I do that to avoid changing macro sets which can be kinda a hassle.

[WishMaster3K]

lol, wow, TommyToes, I was remembering those days and laughing cause I remembered how much the SUCKED! I ran myself ragged back then ;;

And hamlet, I experienced the same thing, actually. But for me, I went more for increased stats from like, Errant hands/feet/legs and left the enfeebling to the AF body at 72. However, I did notice that enfeebling was noticably more effective.

I only have 2 Enfeebling merits right now and 1 to Ice magic, but that's more than enough to land Paralyze on the IT Wyverns on Bhlaf Thickets by Mammok Ja Staging Point. I'm gonna go all out on Enfeebling merits (before I have to start work next month :-D ) and raise Ice 3 more times and I might be able to forgo the AF body (during exp) even for INT nukes.

Atm, I'm going along with the info from tests, which I can 100% support, stating that:
Enfeebling Affects both Landing, Duration and Potency(Strength)
Stats affect Potency
M.Acc Affects Landing

I'm at the point where if I stack Enfeebling, My spells can last an entire fight, but I see very little return. By Swapping out AF Body and Enfeebling Torque for Errant body and Promise Badge, I find that even Wyverns are paralyzed almost 75% or more of the time *_* (I shit you not)

So to reiterate, the in-game system is fine. And while it does SUCK for lower levels (I gave up macro swapping between gear once I had AF -.- ) at 72, the game blows open, so there is nothing to really be concerned about.

[sevenpointflaw]

Wow, lot of posts to get to. So far, from what I've skimmed, you guys are saying pick the 5 most pertinent pieces to macro and don't fret too much about stat-whoring to the max?

I'd say that's a fairly... fair statement. But you should also know that -if- you swap out everything, you will do better. What I mean is, no one will complain if your enfeebles are sticking 90% of the time, but if you have the extra gear, and it doesn't hinder your play style or the play style of your party, then what is wrong with an extra macro and getting enfeebs to stick 99% of the time? Or getting them to stick 95% of the time but have paralyze proc 25% more often?

I sorta do that with my +MP gear. I upgrade my earings from +3mp to +5mp. My ring is upgraded from +20mp to +25mp. My blet from +15mp to +20mp. Meanwhile my LS is laughing at me, "Man, you don't need to pay 1.5mil to get an extra 5mp!" And by laughing I mean a couple people got downright ugly with pointing fingers, yelling "noob!" and laughing. But when I did it with -all- my equipment and hit 1000mp ten levels before anyone else in my LS... they stopped laughing.

I suspect the same is true for grear swaps for RDM. One or two peieces won't make a difference in and of themselves. But hot damn, if those one or two pieces turn into three or four or five... You get the idea.

Short verision: Needed? A couple gear swarps. More than a couple? If you have em why not use em?

[Dryhus]

Short verision: Needed? A couple gear swarps. More than a couple? If you have em why not use em?

Bingo.

If there are MND boosts available in 10 of the 16 gear slots, why not use them? Oh, because FFXI's macro system supports 6 lines? I could have 2 macros per spell to use all the stat boosts and fill 3 macro pallettes with RDM spells...but why? It's so inefficient.

Sure, you pick your biggest stat boosts for those 5 macro lines. +5 MND in Aqua Rings, Penitent Rope, etc. Maybe you leave out the +2 MND pieces because of macro restraints. In those 5 pieces you'd leave out, that's around +10 MND you're passing up. I'll keep the 10 MND, please.

[Murphie]

Well, PS2 and 360 users seem to have no problem whatsoever with only 6 macro slots. And some of the best players I know play on PS2, so I think if they can manage, I certainly can.

[rrynn]

i use only the ingame macros.
i change my set of 20 macros in my macro pallat depending on what i'm up to in that situation.

i have 2 macros which are gear only, my FEEB macro which puts on all my enfeebling + gear (int/mnd/staves are in the spell macros) and my NUKE macro which puts on my INT gear (i then put in elemental or dark skill and staves into my nukes/drains)

some macros, like refresh, haste, cure IV, convert, heal, sleep, and my FEEB and NUKE macros are always in the same places no matter what for easy reachability. the rest of my macros move around from party to party.

i keep basice rdm/blm rdm/whm and rdm/drk macro sets ready, and every spell i have is macroed in a "holding" bar. at the beginning of any party i just cut/paste to get the most optimal set for that moment.

as a side note, i dislike the idea the reliance on outside macro tools. it's something which is totally unavialble to any ps2/xbox players, so it's not really practical to suggest to someone unless you know what platform they're on. also.....its a harmless "cheat" but it's a cheat none the less, and if gms can detect windowers (which some people say they can) then they can detect an outside macro program (which is basically a botting program, or at least a potential botting program honestly). so if someone calls a gm on you for something unrelated and they're looking at you anyway....running a 3rd party program might be noticed, which could really suck.

[Hamlet]

That double gear swap macro for healing is genius. I'm going to use it for Errant/AFbody when healing, since I use only use Errant for healing (and nuking, which I pretty much don't do anymore- unless my tests continue to show that Errant is superior to AF1body for enfeebling)

[rrynn]

<3 errant for enfeebling on mobs that dont resist much (like merit mobs). only thing i use af1 for in xp parties anymore is for sleep and silence...those i want to stick the first damn time no matter what.

[Feba]

Well, PS2 and 360 users seem to have no problem whatsoever with only 6 macro slots. And some of the best players I know play on PS2, so I think if they can manage, I certainly can.

What i've heard from friends who play on PS2, it's also quite a bit faster than PC macros, though.

Personally, I think trying to make it 'fair' for all systems is a little silly, as no two versions will ever be totally equal

[Murphie]

Well, my statement had less to do with "fair" and more to do with the fact that extra slots aren't holding PS2 and 360 players back, so perhaps saying that we PC users are crippled by having only 6 lines is a bit much.

I find that my macros fire a lot faster when I use a controller, provided I know which macro I want to use and can get the cursor to it in time. I have no problems with the CTRL/ALT + method though.

[Feba]

I wasn't really referring to you specifically with that comment, but I think 6 line max was a bad idea anyway.


However, it's pointless to argue over, as it's just where your morals lie, and nothing more. If you think that it's harmless, or ok, then someone telling you it's hellspawn won't change that, and vice versa.

[Murphie]

Well, it's hard to tell, since I was the one you quoted. Regardless, you're right. No matter how either side, or all sides, or whatever feels about it, I don't think anyone is going to convince the other side(s) otherwise.

[WishMaster3K]

Due to the speed of the PS2 Hard Drive, we can notice slight lag switching pallettes. I do not notice that lag on PC. I'll see how my friend's XB360 reacts to pallette switching.

^- Just to clear things up.

[Feba]

Not Pallete switching, i'm talking about the actual speed of the macro, as in "Press A+B = Macro", which can seem "Sticky" on PC, but works well on PS2, according to friends.

[WishMaster3K]

Oh yeah, because you said the PS2 was faster /doh

Well, I see what you're saying. The PS2 version macro's are more responsive, but I guess only by a bit, even if you do use a controller on both setups. But yes, while negligable, you can tell a difference.

[Taskmage]

I think the difference is that on PC a macro can "misfire" and just fail if your framerate is laggy. I don't remember ever having that problem on PS2.

[WishMaster3K]

Oh, Hamlet, just read your last post on page 2, Errant is only "superior" to AF1 body for enfeebling after you have a couple of Enfeebling merits under your hat (hahaha, pun ftw) and you can land the spells consistently.

One thing I noticed:
Stacking MND, Paralyze procs way more often, especially with the bit of Ice Accuracy I merited. However, the duration is much lower than with stacked Enfeebling. It feels like the average duration is about half of what happens if I stack Enfeebling Gear.

What this means:
Spells like Paralyze and Slow (maybe Blind, but not sure if it's percentage based) will benefit from added potency, but "static" spells like Gravity and Poison would benefit from increases Enfeebling boosts.

Double Post Edited:
TM messed up my double edit ;.;

[sevenpointflaw]

I think the difference is that on PC a macro can "misfire" and just fail if your framerate is laggy. I don't remember ever having that problem on PS2.

Te exact reason I don't like the built in macro system. Have just one "misfire" in a row is bad enough. Have two or three in a row in dynamis makes you worthless.

[Spider-Dan]

Apologies for the resurrection, but it's better than starting a new thread.

1) To say that one should pick the 5 most relevant pieces and swap only those is rather arbitrary. That seems to be a clear indication of players adapting to unnecessary game limitation.

For example, as a xbow RNG, there are quite a few slots with significant bonuses that do nearly nothing for RNG on Barrage or WS:

Relic hat- MND+4
Devotee's Mitts- MND+5/6
Aqua Ring (x2)- MND+5
Hunter's Braccae- MND+5
Suzaku's Sune-ate- MND+15

Those are items which out-and-out suck for WS, and essentially must be removed. Given that I normally have 1 line of my macro dedicated to the ammo I'm using, that's already some significant compromises I have to make.

Even if I were to use something like w.hands full-time over Devotee's (which I did, for precisely this reason), the requirement of AF+1 hands to be equipped at the moment the Barrage is fired removes any macro-saving potential I might have.

Now add the general unresponsiveness of Dynamis to the picture, and it becomes a major headache. By using .txt files for my swapping, I can consolidate all my gear swapping down to one macro that both swaps gear and fires the appropriate ammo, which reduces my time spent fighting against the game engine trying to get my macros to execute under lag.

It's one thing to make a swap/no-swap decision when you're talking about gear that still helps, but to a lesser degree. But particularly in the case of an xbow RNG, +MND gear is amazingly great for TPing and yet completely useless for Barrage/WS.

In spite of all this, for the majority of the last year I've been using standard macros most of the time. The only time that I demand .txt scripting is in Dynamis, because macros are just too unresponsive to be worth fighting against there. Having 2 macros dedicated to gear swapping is completely out of the question; having 1 for swapping and 1 for firing is still a frustrating battle against the game engine; having 1 macro that does it all is somewhat like I imagine Dynamis is supposed to be.

2) As far as the issue of fairness between PC/PS2/X360 players... if you don't like your platform, switch to another. TBH, I'm already annoyed that the PS2's limitations are holding back the rest of us from getting much needed game improvements; they need to just end-of-life that version (or do an engine fork like EQ did) so everyone else can get the improvements they deserve.

[Karinya]

Well, my viewpoint is that if you don't like the game SE created, you should play something else, not try to hack it. Hacking is against ToS (which you agree to every time you log on, unless you have a hack to bypass that too) and unfair to users on other platforms.

Yes, I include all use of windower in this.

If SE wanted to include /console exec, they could have done so, either at release or any time in the last several years.

Now, this is not to say I wouldn't like it if the macro length limit was raised to 10, 15 or even 20 (or, for that matter, if you could see party member TP or your target's exact HP percentage all the time). But the game exists with certain rules and people who play it have an obligation to play by those rules. Much like you have to choose how to best use your time and MP, you have to choose how best to use your macro (and inventory) slots to equip yourself. Different choices have different consequences and that's what makes them meaningful.

You might as well play football and say "well, our team's performance would be better if we also played a 5th down, why should we limit ourselves to only 4 downs?". Or show up to the Tour de France on a motorcycle.

So I use the most important 5 pieces of gear for the action I am taking in that macro. I've never really had a problem with it.


P.S. The reduced duration WM3K notes is coming from partial resists. This is why I don't like stacking stats for enfeebles (at the expense of skill) - the proc rate doesn't change that much really but the chance of wearing off early is much higher. Of course, this assumes an HNM situation - in merit it's hardly worth casting most enfeebles in the first place because it's all super short fights against super weak monsters and you're busy Hasting 4-5 people. Silence, Sleep, maybe Dispel and that's about it. But I bet most people on this thread already have different macro sets for HNMs, Dynamis and merit situations (and solo, if you do enough of it to bother).

[Feba]

If SE wanted to include /console exec, they could have done so, either at release or any time in the last several years.except they couldn't because /console isn't a native FFXI command, but a windower command.

What you talk about with showing up to the tour de france on a motorcycle would be closer to claim tools and pos hacks, windower is more like a business having cell phones instead of just land lines. It's an advantage, yes, but it's not giving you an unfair advantage that would be unreasonable for your opponents to have, or breaking any rules.

While windower might not be right, it's only evil is being in a gray area of TOS. I don't think anyone would seriously think that a better macro system HURTS the game, unless of course it's being used for botting (which windower isn't, except in a few special cases, where regular bots already exist anyway)

[Spider-Dan]

Well, my viewpoint is that if you don't like the game SE created, you should play something else, not try to hack it. Hacking is against ToS (which you agree to every time you log on, unless you have a hack to bypass that too) and unfair to users on other platforms.

Yes, I include all use of windower in this.
This, in and of itself, is an unfair method of judgment, because the ToS are not fairly designed. The ToS prohibits third-party software (something that essentially isn't even possible on PS2) but says nothing about third-party hardware. So PS2 players are free to use Picture-in-Picture televisions and programmable/turbo controllers, yet (by "the letter of the law") PC users are prohibited from using programs to achieve the same effect.

That's like making "you must bench press 150lbs" a condition of membership at a country club. On the surface, it reads as neutral, but in practice you're simply making it a male-only club.

You might as well play football and say "well, our team's performance would be better if we also played a 5th down, why should we limit ourselves to only 4 downs?". Or show up to the Tour de France on a motorcycle.
To draw another analogy, it would be like if the Tour made a rule that you could bring any cycle you want, but the rider + cycle had to add up to less than 300 lbs. You'd have midgets showing up with light motorcycles, and being completely within the rules.

I'd be more concerned with the whole "fair play" and rule-breaking aspects if the rules were designed fairly to begin with.

[Feba]

Something else interesting about PC/PS2 differences, it is illegal to use some third party hardware, but not all. For example, a logitech G15's macro system (potentially infinite) is A-OK, but using a lego kit to make a bot isn't (yes, someone actually made it and asked a GM. I think they eventually sold it on ebay.)