I got lectured -__-;

[fallenintoshadows]

I'm 39WAR/19PLD at the moment and the other day in a party some guy lectured me for using pld as my sub. He said I should only use mnk, thf, rng or nin. I told him I like using pld because when I solo I like to be able to cure myself, it gives me good defence and because when I used mnk as my sub before I just found it too boring. He told me that it didn't matter what defence I had because I shouldn't tank at my level, but I do all the time! If there's no nin or whatever in the party then I'll be the main tank and I like it that way. I plan on getting nin at some point when I get the fame but for now I'm happy using pld and no one else seemed to mind so far.
Should I really change my sub now? I mean if it's that much of a bad choice obviously I would change it straight away but I don't want to go on just the opinion of one guy.

[Ellipses]

What you do when you're solo has absolutely no bearing on what you do in a party.

WAR as a tank generally holds hate through damage and abilities. Your PLD sub isn't giving you enough abilities, and doesn't put out the damage that /MNK would. The increased defense is meaningless if you can't hold hate. A PLD/WAR at your level can hold hate easily because they'd have 39 levels of spells and MP, not 19. Even if you manage to hold hate through a fight, there's no way you have enough MP to hold a chain, unless maybe you're eating MP food, which would mean giving up better tank food.

As a DD, WAR/PLD is even worse, because the subjob adds no significant boost to attack power. The only time defense matters to a DD is when the tank sucks or the DD can't walk the hate line (I doubt that second one will be an issue with /PLD). MNK would add damage across the board. THF would offer Sneak Attack. NIN would offer Dual Wield and Utsusemi. RNG has Accuracy Bonus to make sure you hit the mob more often.

It may actually work halfway well for now, given the right support. But for tanking, /MNK (or /NIN if you've got two tanks) would work a lot better.

BTW, I don't think you need fame to unlock NIN. You need Norg fame to quest the scrolls, but not to get the job.

[Murphie]

I can't think of any reason to sub PLD in a party, sorry. If you find that it works for solo, good for you. But a party situation is totally different, and you have to take into account what is best for the group.

[qaitakalnin]

Ellipses and fallenintoshadows pretty much hit the nail on the head (or would that be hit the mob on the head?) Anyway, /pld might be great for you when you solo, but when you are in a pt you, as a war, have 1 primary job, and 1 secondary job. Primary being do as much damage through either twin axes, SA axe or Great Axe, Great Axe only, ect., which pld does not lend iteself to, and yoru secondary is to back up the main tank so that *hopefully* the pt doesnt wipe if the mob starts after the mages.

While you are soloing do whatever you want, heck as far as i am concerned you can even /pld in a party, just be aware that you will recieve critisim for it, that it isnt the best sub for party purposes and that you may in fact either be asked to change the sub or be booted from the pt. None of those people pay for your time on the game, nor do you pay for their time so if they dont want war/pld then they wont take war/pld in the pt. As long as you are aware of those facts, do what you want :) just be prepared for the concequeneces.

[fallenintoshadows]

Ok thanks for the info I'll get nin asap ^ ^
I don't need fame for the job? O__o
Well that makes it easier! :)

[Aeolus]

You just need alot of tenshodo fame for the Tonko and Utsusemi scrolls in norg.

[forster]

... or a buttload of gil.

[kiffkin]

I'm soloing as 19WAR/PLD just now, on account of having next to no GA skill (axe is at 153 and it's very tempting to just use that instead). I tried going WAR/MNK, but found that there was a lot of downtime. The three cures I get help speed things up a bit.

I wouldn't use it in a party at this level though, I can't see anything it would bring that another sub couldn't do better.

Also, you need Norg/Tenshodo fame 4 to get the scrolls. The usual way of getting the fame is to do the Yagudo Necklace quest for Nanaa Mihgo (Mihgo's Amigo) 50 times. You can also get the fame by doing the Shady Business quest in Bastok, or by doing some of the lower fame quests in Norg.

[Armando]

I would also like to add that PLD sub won't add any defense for you unless a) using Esquire's Earring or b) Level 60+. Either way it's not enough Defense to justify the sub, /WHM would work better for soloing. Shield Bash goes to waste because you should be using Great Axe at these levels.

So, yes, you definitely should change your sub, like the others said. It'll increase your performance by a lot. /NIN allows you to duo/backup tank, /MNK is a main tank sub, /THF is for DDing. /RNG gives Accuracy Bonus, but I prefer /THF for DDing unless you have capped Marksmanship and you're macroing in +ranged accuracy to shoot Acid Bolts from the sweet spot at the beginning of fights.

[fallenintoshadows]

I think I'll go with nin then, so it's 50 necklaces? I think I can do that...

[Lonerwolf]

More like 200 i heard.

[Aeolus]

Yea, it is more like 200-230. Last time I did it I just killed worms in Dangruf Wadi for Zinc ore. You only need to trade 100 Zinc ore to get enough fame. The quest in bastok is in Warehouse#2 in the port. Trade him 4 zinc ores a go. You get some money for it. 25 times is enough to raise fame to get the Rusty Subligar/Leggings quests in norg which will then get you enough fame to do the Tonko:Ichi quest and finally the Utsusemi:Ichi quest(Both in Norg).

[fallenintoshadows]

ok I think I'll do the zinc ore quest then XD

[Suichi]

If you were soloing, he had no right to tell you what to do.

In a pt it's different, as WAR/PLD is not the most optimal sub for a pt.

[Armando]

Regarding Zinc: It's a matter of personal preference, but worm drop rate is too slow for my likings. You can mine Zinc in Zeruhn and make some profit selling iron and (rarely) darksteel. You could also turn coppers and tins into bronze ingots, those also sell well.

[Omni]

another thing to add about utsusemi quest: zinc ore, you'll have to turn in less ores but they are a bit more expensive to buy and relatively harder to come by. necklaces are a lot easier to come by but you need to turn in more than twice the amount. if you goto giddeus, the yagudo there drop necklaces all over the place. you might have to make several trips back and forth however.

[samarium]

Mining Zinc Ore: It's more common in Palborough Mines than it is in Zeruhn, albeit slightly higher-level, but if you can get by without aggro that's the place to go.

Unless you want to mine in Newton or Oldton Movalpolos. :lipseal:

Personally I'd do the Zinc Ore quest. It involes less repetition (which I can't STAND) albeit a tiny bit more running, but there's also much more potential profit involved. Zinc.... zinc.... zinc.... Platinum!

Versus the occasional stack of Yagudo Feathers (whoop de crap) and level 1 pants or 100 gil spell scroll.

-sam

[Ellipses]

On zinc and necklaces: Do each quest at least once, then start repeating the quest of your choice. Having more unique quests for any given area raises your fame faster than just repeating quests for that area.

[aglcic]

I got mine from farming necklace, and I think at the end of the day, I walk out 1M + 200k richer on top of 240ish necklace I need for the fame.

[Raydeus]

I would also like to add that PLD sub won't add any defense for you unless a) using Esquire's Earring or b) Level 60+. Either way it's not enough Defense to justify the sub, /WHM would work better for soloing.

PLD sub gives you more VIT and STR, /WHM gives you more mp but Cures are only to cut downtime between fights, if you are fighting something that takes so much of your HP that you need to heal yourself in the middle of the fight then you are fighting stuff too high to be worth it.

I have both WHM and PLD subs and I gotta say /PLD is much better for me, of course it depends on play-style.

Bloody and Holy bolts are your friends if you are soloing as WAR or DRK :thumbsup:




OP :

I suggest Necklaces, if you have enough inventory space, drop rate is very high so you'll get enough fame in a day or two depending how much time you invest. Zinc is rare and sometimes you can't find enough, not to mention the gil you are gonna throw away.

[Armando]

PLD sub gives you more VIT and STR, /WHM gives you more mp but Cures are only to cut downtime between fights, if you are fighting something that takes so much of your HP that you need to heal yourself in the middle of the fight then you are fighting stuff too high to be worth it.

I have both WHM and PLD subs and I gotta say /PLD is much better for me, of course it depends on play-style.PLD sub does not give enough STR or VIT to justify using it. Sorry, but the difference between A sub and B sub's stats will never be big enough to matter, except for MP, and the HP Bonus trait. People don't sub WAR for STR any more than they sub THF for DEX. They sub WAR for Double Attack and Berserk, and THF for SATA. /PLD gives a small MP pool, a limited selection of spells, a Defense Bonus that WAR already has (and therefore do not stack,) and Undead Killer/Holy Circle go to waste because for the sake of gaining EXP, even when solo, undead are always more trouble than they're worth. /WHM gives an MP pool practically twice the size, Magic Defense Bonus, Clear Mind, Auto Regen, Barspells, and -na spells. /WHM is very clearly the superior soloing sub, and /PLD doesn't bring anything to the table for EXP, so there's very little conceivable reason to use /PLD.

[Raydeus]

/WHM is very clearly the superior soloing sub

And yet /PLD works so much better for me while I solo.


/PLD in an xp party: (No, thanks)

/PLD solo: At least for me (Yes, Please)

[Armando]

Anecdotal proof on its own means very little. I could say right now /WHM works better for me soloing. Then what? Who's right?

What exactly does /PLD do for you that /WHM doesn't? Don't say "VIT and STR" because it could easily be a placebo effect.

[Raydeus]

What exactly does /PLD do for you that /WHM doesn't? Don't say "VIT and STR" because it could easily be a placebo effect.

Maybe that's it, maybe I just feel much more comfortable with PLD sub than WHM, maybe at lower lvls those +STR and +VIT do make a difference, either way I work much better and get more XP an hour soloing as /PLD than I do as /WHM.

[Armando]

If you feel better with that sub, that's fine. It's your soloing session, and it's your own time. However, it still shouldn't be advertised as a good soloing sub any more than you'd want to advertise DRK as an all-purpose DD sub.

[Wertyone]

Back to Norg fame.

If you are from Windy, Giddus is, in my opinon, the clear choice. Outpost warp makes it easy travel and if you get a return ring the trip home is very fast. Just return ring warp to the outpost and outpost warp to Port Windy. The gil you get from turning in the necklaces pays for the warps.

Also there are 3 NM's in Giddus that you can check on while you farm.

[Raydeus]

However, it still shouldn't be advertised as a good soloing sub any more than you'd want to advertise DRK as an all-purpose DD sub.

Just because you don't think it helps it doesnt mean it shouldn't be used, if it works for me there might be other players who would have similar results, I've been playing long enough to know what works and what doesn't. It's viable, if you don't believe it just don't use it.

But if other players feel like giving it a try it's their choice, like you said it's our own time. So don't try to impose your ideas just because you don't like it :P

[MisterCookie]

Armando-He specifically said that /pld works best for him. Even if you claim that /pld sucks as a sub, its completely irrelevant, because he knows from his own experience what works well for himself. Would he still use a sub even if it sucked? No. Obviously, for whatever purposes he is using it for, it works.

[Hamlet]

Here's the stats from the handy stat calculator. Hume 39 warrior used.

LevelHPMPSTRDEXVITAGIINTMNDCHA
For pld:

39 705 44 46 39 39 37 29 32 35
and for whm:

39 686 74 44 38 36 39 31 34 35

edit: it cuts and pastes like crap, but it's summarized below:

Pld perks: +19 hp, +2 str, +1 dex, +3 vit

Whm perks: 30 mp, and all the spells.

Personally, I'd go with whm. I was expecting alot more str from pld. I could understand not wanting to lvl a mage job simply for use when soloing, however.

[Murphie]

Edit: Duh. I was reading it wrong.

[Hearshot]

@OP

A lecture may have been out of line. But maybe more of a strong suggestion that you do not sub PLD. I'm sure its been said over and over before in this thread already why its a bad sub. One tip, is to sit in your MH switching from sub to sub. Take a look at your Equip screen, look at your Stats go up and down. Look at your Job Abilities and Job Traits for each combo. I'll tell you /pld does not increase your defense as much to be worth sacrificing your potential.

When choosing subs, you should look at the benefits and each sub gives you and balance one over the other when taking a party invite for certain parties.

/nin is great for tanking fast damage-dealing parties, as you will get hit less, still deal more dmg using off-handed stats, and cost the WHM less MP. (Yes you still have defender regardless of sub.)

/thf may not add any notable defense or agility for any main, but the DMG is still great, and if you happen to lose hate, a quick SA+WS from behind will lock it back onto you.(This idea works for low lvl parties with high high healing power.)

/mnk probably works alright till 40. This gives you more useful stats/abilities than pld could ever give you.

Now im' not sure of the difference between a lecture or strong suggestion lol.


*edit* i'm not advocating subbing thf or mnk to tank around 40, i'm merely expressing how these would be better than subbing pld. Subbing drk and sam are and should be just as irrelevant as subbing pld.

[Celeal]

Back to Norg fame.

If you are from Windy, Giddus is, in my opinon, the clear choice. Outpost warp makes it easy travel and if you get a return ring the trip home is very fast. Just return ring warp to the outpost and outpost warp to Port Windy. The gil you get from turning in the necklaces pays for the warps.

Also there are 3 NM's in Giddus that you can check on while you farm.

1. Each Return Ring has a /recast timer 24 hours (in real life).
2. You can Outpost Teleport to Windurst if and only if your nationality is Windurst.
3. The Outpost NPC that locate at the zone outside your hometown (of your own nation) does not offer teleport service.