Is it true what they say...

[Eohmer]

Is it true what they say about DRK's?

Eohmer>> Hello! Experience points. Do you need it?
DRK>> Yes, please.
Eohmer>> Do you mind being first provoke so I can SATA on PLD?
DRK>> I'm sorry. I will take too much damageand I'll die. No thanks! See you again.


I guess it IS true for the most part!

/sigh

[zagex]

If the thf and tank are fast on the SATA, the first voke should only take 2-3 hits. As a taru mage, I can usually take 2-3 hits without stoneskin or blink as long as they're not all criticals, or some high damage weaponskill. I had a Drk as a main tank in altepa. Everyone else was JP, and I didn't actually realize he was tanking
until later, though I was the Whm. I just thought he kept pulling hate. Interestingly enough, he also was the puller, and crafted drinks to regen MP.

Plus Drks have drain to help get back some of the lost hp. That's better than most other first vokes.

[Eohmer]

Yeah, but the speed of SATA is beside the point in this case. Party has not had a single fight yet, as I was still forming the party. So how could he know that were either slow in performing it, or fast? He didn't even want to TRY!

[Icemage]

It's sort of a vicious cycle:

Most players think DRKs suck (they don't), which leads to...

Therefore most DRKs end up in bad parties where people "can't find any better alternatives" which leads to...

DRKs end up with terrible tanks in their parties, and either never learn how to control their hate level (stupidity), don't care (apathy), or couldn't avoid it if they tried (bad tank) which leads to...

DRK getting hate, taking a lot of damage and dying (because of slow trigger finger healers + sucky tanks) which leads to...

DRKs not liking being SATA partners since they WILL be soaking up hits for sure, which makes most players think they suck...


Icemage

[Jei]

if the tank and thf are slow with SATA, most first voker DD won't last long. Except War I think :x

[Minimee]

dont lump all drk's in same group, because of 1 drk. i have no problem being first voke even as a taru drk. but thf and tank have to get the job done within 3 hits max or im deadtaru. my defense is very bad as a taru and a drk. i am equipped for max damage and accuracy not defense. with my low hp it doesnt take many hits before im in the red. i cant believe a drk would turn down any exp party but i would guess was lvl 50 or below. later levels he would take about any party offered. i can tell you in the high 60's and 70's i cant even tank dc's in test and key partys. ep's are not practical either without alot of healing. other races would fair better than myself, but drk gear is +atk +str +dex and - eva and -def. i have went so far as to carry +def gear for less than avg tanks, but this still leaves me fighting to survive after few hits.

[lionx]

Unless you are wearing snipers and all that - DEF stuff, most gear on DRKs have good DEF for SATA and should be same as WAR or PLD without the buffs and stuff, its only when they use LR and SE that they go weak. However even so i feel the THF sucks if they cant SATA fast enough for the DRK to die like that...>_>;

Maybe some DEF gear would be nice if you are that concerned of your THF.

[Eohmer]

dont lump all drk's in same group, because of 1 drk. i have no problem being first voke even as a taru drk. but thf and tank have to get the job done within 3 hits max or im deadtaru. my defense is very bad as a taru and a drk. i am equipped for max damage and accuracy not defense. with my low hp it doesnt take many hits before im in the red. i cant believe a drk would turn down any exp party but i would guess was lvl 50 or below. later levels he would take about any party offered. i can tell you in the high 60's and 70's i cant even tank dc's in test and key partys. ep's are not practical either without alot of healing. other races would fair better than myself, but drk gear is +atk +str +dex and - eva and -def. i have went so far as to carry +def gear for less than avg tanks, but this still leaves me fighting to survive after few hits.

I didn't. I said for the MOST part because with my luck, most of the DRK's I've been involved with are somewhat whiny.

[Hitsugaia]

Well, if you find a good DRK, Friendslist him, compliment him, and invite him to your next party. If that's really how it is with DRKs on your server, you'll love yourself for making a list of good ones.

[Kailea]

dotn forget to do it with the DRGs too :p

[TheGrandMom]

I was pt'd with a thf in my static on my drk from 60-67. I found that voke creates too much hate and I would pull with poison or sometimes stun and then wait for the tank and thf to do their stuff. But yes, the thf and tank must be on top of their game because drks do take hits hard. Some drks can offset this by carrying defensive equips to swap out but not everyone is able to do that. Another thing to do is set a "you stand here and you stand here" scenario up. Thats what I used to do, then I knew exactly where to pull the mob to and the thf and tank would be right there in position. A good drk can pull with a spell that creates less hate and a good thf and tank can get into position in a decent amount of time but I can understand any drks apprehension.

[Harrison]

Well if they swap out their Sniper's rings, and don't hit SE/LR right before they first voke, I don't see what the fear is about taking a few hits. Like another poster said, they have Drain to get a decent portion of the few HP's they lose from taking a hit or two to start with. If the SATA isn't very fast, any first voker is gonna get whacked around.

[Aeni]

Well if they swap out their Sniper's rings, and don't hit SE/LR right before they first voke, I don't see what the fear is about taking a few hits. Like another poster said, they have Drain to get a decent portion of the few HP's they lose from taking a hit or two to start with. If the SATA isn't very fast, any first voker is gonna get whacked around.

Ever tried being a DRK first "voke" on a raptor or torama? It's not pretty.

Edit: and of course, at later levels (65,66+) it's useless to have a THF with a DRK/THF in PT ...

[keneko]

well all i know as a sam im always first voking (unless there a better person ofc) and im sure drk use heavier armour :/

[Skoal]

I bought some Carapace armor for my drg since 90% I am SATA partner. Not too expensive and the hands activate just after a few hits from and IT. I don't understand why a melee wouldn't want to be a trick partner, its easy evasion and parrying skill up.

[TheGrandMom]

Well if they swap out their Sniper's rings, and don't hit SE/LR right before they first voke, I don't see what the fear is about taking a few hits. Like another poster said, they have Drain to get a decent portion of the few HP's they lose from taking a hit or two to start with. If the SATA isn't very fast, any first voker is gonna get whacked around.

Yes, swapping out gear does help but even drks with defensive gear get hit hard. The actual point to it is, how good are the thf and tank? If they are good, a drk tanking till SATA isn't an issue but I've been in some real horror story parties. I swore that the thf bought the freakin account because it shouldn't take that long to SATA on the tank, and I've died because of it many times.

And you do realize that Drain produces a decent amount of hate right? Any drk worth their mettle knows this and knows NOT to use it until a decent amount of hate has been established and by that time the mages have already cured him. It's a double edged sword, you don't want the mages wasting MP on you so you have Drain and need to wait till the tank establishes hate but the mages feel the need to cure anyone thats lost hp.

EDIT: Since this is a drk discussion, I'm moving it to the drk forums.

[Eohmer]

It's quite obvious that if a DRK takes too many hits, they can die. That's not my point.
The point I was trying to make is that this particular didn'g even want to TRY how things went?
I got a MNK instead and he was willingly participating in SATA as being first voke.
Not to mention that the COR we had volunteered to pull, so I had my SATA ready to attack as COR came back. I performed it on the PLD with MNK only taking 1, sometimes 2 hits.
I mean, how do you know if the THF and PLD would get it off in time if you don't even try? Just the fact that he cried about it before even joining the party...

[TheGrandMom]

Well thats simply a personal decision based on the personality of that person and their past experiences. Not all drks will respond like this but some may. I personally appreciate someone that will come flat out and say why they won't join than have someone that does join, gets to camp, and then leaves.

[Eohmer]

Honestly, I would rather have them tell me, "Ok, I'll try it out, but I may leave if SATA doesn't work out." instead of, "No thanx, I'm too chicken to try it out."

That DRK missed out on a fun party that lasted 2 lvls. :-P

[Taebus]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're having difficulty seperating between the player and the class.

Someone turned you down. I'm sorry. It happens. Don't play with him again.

The DRK class did not personally turn you down, a player did. I've played with members of every single job in this game. Some were good players, many were bad. Guess who I party with now? Yep, the good ones. Try it, it works.

And please, please, don't come onto the DRK forum and say,

for the MOST part because with my luck, most of the DRK's I've been involved with are somewhat whiny.

If I said, "Generally most of the thieves I've partied with are slow, incompetent, and somewhat useless" it would be an insult to every good thf I've ever played with. If I made a post about every incompetent player I've come across, the servers here would probably overload, crash, and explode into millions of little bits. And trust me, when I say incompetence, it can get far worse than someone turning down your offer of an xp party.

:thumbsup:

[Eohmer]

Let me get this straight. DRK's are stereotyped for being emo and whiny. I thought I could bring some laughs by posting what happened. I never said ALL DRK's are bad. I didn't intend for this post to turn into debate about who's who and who sucks.

Another thing, Taebus, I didn't post it in the DRK forum. It was moved here by a mod, so take it up with them if you have an issue with it. The mod even SAID in their entry they moved it here.

People need to lighten up. >.<

[Taebus]

Let me get this straight. DRK's are stereotyped for being emo and whiny. I thought I could bring some laughs by posting what happened.

I honestly don't have a clue what you're talking about. Posting a story about a drk who said no to party for laughs?

Relax Eohmer, I'm not ragging you. I just thinking your getting too worked about this drk turning you down. I'm certainly not debating who sucks, it's a ridiculous topic and I've partied with excellent players from all jobs. And I've got more than enough experience to know that stereoptypes are a waste of my time when I try to put together a good party.

[TheTruth23]

Yeah, but the speed of SATA is beside the point in this case. Party has not had a single fight yet, as I was still forming the party. So how could he know that were either slow in performing it, or fast? He didn't even want to TRY!

How about you shut up and not blame a whole job on one retard. Seriously I've met horrible players in every job no job is immune, just DRK seems to always get brought out more than others.

Double Post Edited:
Let me get this straight. DRK's are stereotyped for being emo and whiny. I thought I could bring some laughs by posting what happened. I never said ALL DRK's are bad. I didn't intend for this post to turn into debate about who's who and who sucks.

Another thing, Taebus, I didn't post it in the DRK forum. It was moved here by a mod, so take it up with them if you have an issue with it. The mod even SAID in their entry they moved it here.

People need to lighten up. >.<

You implied it so stf^ and leave. kthxbye

[one_klump]

Yes, I am a bit slower to accept an invite to a pt as a SATA partner, but I give them a chance. Some thf's really know their job. Others don't.

Here's how an average SATA works out for me:

I pull with poison, get back to camp, I do *not* engage the mob
tank gets behind mob and engages. Thf moves behind tank.
I am now in the yellow/red HP. Whm throws me a cure.
Whm now has hate from saving me.
Thf uses SATA.
Tank vokes mob off of whm, mob is now facing tank.
Thf scores a critical hit! Mob takes 35 dmg.


My problem is that most thf that i have partied with are amazed at doing 500 dmg with SATA dancing edge. I can do 500dmg+ no matter which way the mob is facing. :)

[wolfjorg]

Yeah I usually will not be a first voke in the party, if I do not know the people. Now if I have partied with them before, and know how they operate, then sure I have no problem being a first voke. I just make sure I have no buffs up. i.e. berserk, last resort or warcyr, as these lowers our def.